OK, key moments here 'cuz people seem to not watch the video itself, jump to conclusions and go directly into discussion: 1. I like Leica and I don't try to prove that X-Pro3 is better; 2. I never said Leica absolutely has to have EVF. In fact, I mention it just once and don't talk about it at all; 3. I comment on performance and reliability of existent electronics in M cameras, I do not mean that Leica's specs need to be better; 4. Although I didn't own one, I did shoot M10. Plus, I don't comment on things that ultimately require long-term experience with the camera; 5. There is personal experience and there are facts: if I say that M8 and M9 sensors had some major problems - that is a fact, if you say that you were OK with it for any reason - that's personal experience. Draw a line and don't make it personal, I didn't mean to insult anyone here.
The M8 and M9 are incredible cameras… even still in 2021. I still use them both and I get more traction on the photos I shoot with those than any other Leica I’ve shot with. There’s nothing wrong with the M8 sensors, there’s just some problems with the shutters over time. But if you find one in good shape now, it’s probably fine as the bad ones failed earlier. And the M9 has the sensors that can corrode but if it was replaced when Leica issued free warranty replacements, then it’s also fine. I used both M8 and M9 extensively in the past several years and they’re still incredible cameras that can produce a wonderful image on par with modern day mirrorless. Bonus for the M8 and M9 is the awesome colors on the CCD sensors straight out of camera. Beyond that, check out the SL2-S if you want a more modern Leica that’s on par with the image quality of the latest M-body Leica cameras. All this coming from someone that also shoots with the Xpro2, and XE4. You get a handful of modern conveniences with those and they can produce a brilliant image in the right hands, but so can the older, and newer Leicas. Neither manufacturer can produce BETTER images than the other, but they both offer different shooting experiences and philosophies around using them as tools. They both offer different histories as well, that is present in every image each produces. So it’s not about which is better. It’ll never be about that. Its about how it feels to shoot with either. And which inspires you to shoot more and use them more.
Great video. FWIW: for a long time I wanted to move from the X-Pro3 to the M series. But after a while I realized that the M and the X-Pro are not really the same kind of camera. The M is a very specific device, and it's perfect for the people it's perfect for. I think those are photographers who stick to one or two focal lengths in the normal range (e.g., 28 and 50); they often seem to have a single lens on their cameras, and have the right viewfinder for that lens. That could be me, but in my case the problem is my eyesight. Rangefinder focusing at normal focal lengths in the M OVF is a fantastic experience, but I don't see well enough to do it easily at f/5.6 and wider. The rangefinder patch is just too hard for me to see. Given that, I started looking at the CL, SL, and Q series. The CL and Q in particular are more similar to what Fuji offers. In the end, I decided to try a Q2. It turns out to be the perfect fit for me. It has replaced the X-Pro3 and a big shelf of primes. If you shoot with the "Fujicron" 16, 23, 35, and 50, the Q2, with its big sensor and in-camera crops, can come close to replacing that entire focal-length range in a single camera. The beauty of the images exceeds what I got with both the Fujicrons and the bigger Fuji f/1.4 primes. It gives me the "Leica look"; the images are gorgeous and the black-and-whites are film-like. It has an EVF and fast AF. In terms of handling and build quality, it's exceptional. It isn't as pure an experience as the M, but it's still special in a different way. It's also comparatively affordable. A used Q2 can be found for the same cost as a used M body. So, I would suggest that you don't overlook the Q series as a replacement for the X-Pro. Maybe you want to use zooms or very wide or long primes, in which case it won't work. But that's not really who Leica is for, in general. It seems that Leica has decided to keep the M series simple, probably to ensure continuity for users who have been investing in the system for decades and don't want the cameras to change. That's a decision that I can respect. Meanwhile, they're putting tech features into these newer designs. IMO, the Q2 is probably the "real" digital successor to the M.
Thanks! Leica Q is also quite a camera, but I mostly shoot in 35-50-90 range, so it means constant cropping and it seems like a waste then; I'm really hoping they will release something like Ricoh did with its GR: just put a tighter lens in the same camera. Since 40mm Leica is not a thing, they would probably go 50mm which would just be fantastic if you ask me. Take my money.
End of the day camera doesn’t matter. Artist’s toolbox should be adequate to economical situation. As a owner of Leica M240, Q2, Ricoh GR3 (and in past Fuji Xt-2) can truly share that on my social media people had difficulties to guess image difference related to camera brands… or just bad photos 🤣 Great vid 🤟🏻🇸🇪
That's true!🙌 I'm currently working on a cheap camera challenge, like a $20 CCD point and shoot, and I still can get some nice results, considering what I do... but as a photographer, I do want a Leica on my shelf some day as well😁
I own the Fujifilm X-Pro3 and the Leica CL. They're both great cameras and serve different purposes in my kit. The M10 is a beautiful camera and I plan to add one to my kit next year. The big advantage for my style of shooting when using the X-Pro3 is its ability to mimic various film stocks in camera and the power of its jpeg over other mirrorless camera systems. It saves me money on film when I have a client who wants a film look without me using a film DSLR or rangefinder. I think the CL is a great entry into the Leica ecosystem because nothing stops you from using M glass with it. Over the past few months, I've sold off all of my Fujifilm autofocus glass and replaced everything with M mount glass from Voigtlander and 7Artisans, mostly Voigtlander though. 7Artisans only has one M lens I really like and it's their 35mm f1.4. A similar company, TTArtisan just released a 28mm f5.6 pancake M mount which will be great for street photography and I might add it to my kit as well. The primary reason I'm switching to M glass and the Leica ecosystem of cameras is that they have the ONLY camera ecosystem that is truly an asset and accrues in value over time. The quality of M glass is just better than other digital autofocus glass and in the right hands, you can make great photos. I also own the LUMIX S5 and all of the M lenses I have for my CL works on this camera. I also get to use all of L mount lenses on my CL should I have a need for autofocus. All in all, it's up to the photographer to choose a system that works best for them. I'm not a big autofocus shooter. I do street, travel, portrait and sometimes fashion. The kit I've built serves the needs of all those styles and once I have the M10, it will become another tool in the toolkit. I'm still considering selling the X-Pro3 to buy more M glass.
Thanks for your commentary, I see many people refer to CL in a good way, I do need to see for myself whether the legendary Leica look and colors are a thing, and I really just love M10 camera body aesthetically, but considering the price I need to think twice before investing, that's why I'm taking my time and gathering people's opinions🙌
@@SergioMusel smart move on your part. I have gone through MANY cameras and lenses to get to the kit I have now. I've certainly lost money along the way when it comes to selling my older kits but it was worth it in the end. I don't like heavy kits at all. I don't do action photography so I don't need a big DSLR style body for street and travel photography. As I mentioned, I own the Panasonic LUMIX S5 which I exclusively use for the studio, fashion, portraiture, and video. I bought it instead of the Leica SL-2. They're essentially the same camera with a BIG delta in price. Every M mount lens I own has been adapted to L mount which is perfect for both my CL and S5 because they're both L mount cameras. As for my Fujifilm X-Pro3 I've done the same, I have X mount adapters for all my M mount glass. I would suggest you borrow or rent a CL to get a feel for it before buying one should you choose to. For any 35mm or 50mm M mount lense, make sure to purchase a close focus adapter as opposed to getting just a standard adapter. You can thank me later. Happy shooting.
We don't talk price, that's a different topic. More cameras or bigger sensor with better performance is not at the top of the list (but does make the list though)
@@SergioMusel Please don't think for a second that I wouldn't like to buy say Leica M10. But my dad isn't Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos, so so I have to choose my purchases wisely...
@@tomislavmiletic_ Yes, that's partly my point as well... I don't say it directly 'cuz I didn't want to mention price, but the truth is that by making price times and times bigger than it should, Leica simply scares off the whole segment of potential buyers whose only constraint is budget. Would I pay $8000 for a new Leica? No. If it's $3-4K, I would consider it more easy, and Leica would still make a lot of money, because honestly, if companies can sell feature packed 100mpx medium format cameras for $6K, I can't even imagine the real production cost of Leica. Not to mention that digital Leicas depreciate much faster and stronger than film bodies, no matter what fanboys say. Even more, given the slower model refresh rate and high price, it loses value just the same way other cameras do. So yes, price is an obvious, but very important and unavoidable factor... I just hope someone (probably Fuji) will understand all the potential of the market of people who would gladly spend a lot for a classy well made camera, but not as much as Leica charges. After all that is exactly what Fuji did with medium format and retired Hasselblad overnight =) P.S. Sorry for a long one)
Thanks for the video. I have a Leica M10 with the following lenses: 90mm f/2 35mm f/1.4 21mm f/1.4 I have a Fuji X-Pro2 with the following lenses: 56mm f/1.2 23mm f/1.4 16mm f/1.4 Love the images from both. No significant difference in size and weight. Both cameras handle well. Wish the Pro2 had the full-frame image size of the M10. Wish the Pro2 had true rangefinder focusing like the M10. Wish the M10 had two memory card slots like the Pro2. Wish the M10 had the reasonable price of the Pro2. When I purchased the M10, it was supposed to replace the Pro2 as my main camera. However, to my surprise, I prefer shooting with the Pro2.
Every time I start to lean towards like, I end up talking myself out it😅 As good as M11 is now (for a Leica), it's still not there for me as a digital camera
The X-Pro2 did have a variable magnification OVF. They changed it to a fixed magnification on the X-Pro3. It was the only feature change in the X-Pro3 that I was disappointed in. Still the X-Pro3 is my favorite camera.
@@SL-jo4om It is bigger indeed, still, I think they switched to fixed mag. just to simplify things, bigger size and clarity is more like a pleasant add on as a result
Like many Fuji users I‘m feeling that Leica temptation. Solved it by investing into the GFX system - Fuji film simulations + Leica look at double the weight and half the price 🤭
GFX is also a great alternative, for me mainly because of great cropping possibility and MUCH more preferable 4:3 aspect, but I'm waiting for their GFX50R II or GFX100R, you name it; after seeing GFX100S it's clear they can make a much smaller and better rangefinder style medium format
While I certainly understand your point. I’m glad that they have not conformed to what has become the norm. If Leica was to adapt every new feature that every other camera has then it would no longer be an M. It would no longer be special. The M-series is what it is because of WHAT it is. Unchanging never compromising. It’s a certain way to shoot that is different than most other cameras.
I understand that and I'm OK with it, nevertheless Leica have done already things that many would deem to be not worthy M cameras, like video feature or high resolution sensor; therefore how can we know where is the line between what's necessary and what's not...
@@SergioMusel you’ll notice that from the M10 onwards the video functionality was removed. I believe they realized that the Leica M shooter was not interested in those features. As far as high resolution sensors being implemented I hardly see how that detracts from the M series direction. In reality it was probably a smart idea to cut down on production costs to use similar sensors throughout the company’s line up.
I am old. I bought a Leica M3 when I was stationed in West Germany in the early 60s. Nice camera then and about a month's pay, but already lagging in tech. SLRs with built in meters were everywhere. The scales kind of fell from eyes a few years later when Leica decided it had to have an SLR to compete. They took a baseline Minolta which retailed for about $250, modified the metering a bit, and put on a red Leica badge, called it a Leicaflex and sold it for well over a thousand dollars which was a lot of money then. What you are paying for is subjective feel and old fashioned production methods and inability to keep up because of production costs which slow model changeovers. Most cameras now are great including Leica, but it truly acts like a placebo, which in the camera world is that it is better if it is old tech.
As someone who used to own an X-Pro3 and a ton of Fuji glass, I ended up selling most of my kit (now have a single lens) and just have an X-E4. Why? Because a camera that was supposed to be rugged (read: titanium body) was built with really cheap electronics. I never exposed my X-Pro3 to the elements, and yet I had to send it to Fuji Canada twice in the same year I bought it. The first time, the shutter button was sticky; it just wouldn’t fire the shutter all the time which if you do street photography, makes the camera unreliable. The second time, the flip out screen quite literally looked like a VHS Tape rewinding, because the cable had somehow partially dislodged from the motherboard on the camera. Each time I sent it in, it took roughly 6 weeks to get it back. In other words, in the first year of owning my X-Pro3 quite literally sat on a shipping truck or in the repair shop for 1/4 of the entire year. How could a Pro work with a camera like that, let alone a regular user like me? So I sold most of the kit, and put that towards a Leica MP. The reason I switched to an Analog M is personal experience, however it’s based on actual facts, as it seems in my own search many, many other people have experienced issues with their X-Pro3 specifically. It makes me sad honestly, because I dreamed of owning that camera because it checked all the right boxes for me (minus one - they should have kept 28mm framelines); I love the flippy screen, the titanium body, the clear viewfinder… if they fix the problems for an X-Pro4, I may be swayed back. But so far I’m not convinced Fuji makes quality cameras anymore.
It does have some issues, although I’ve had none so far with mine for the past year🤔 Bad samples happen from time to time, not only Fuji; and trust me, I’ve heard even more horrible things about Leicas, especially digital ones… Things are going well for Fuji these days, and 2022 is a 10th anniversary of X-Mount (and X-Pro), so hopefully they will release a quality X-Pro4 that will have everything to impress us 😉
AV, anything said about Leica 📷 is…🧨💥🔥. I’m a casual 📸 since the 70’s & i still, on occasions, 📸 with my 🎞📷. I also own 40+ 📷 (I have no 💰 or common sense, just a ❤️ for 📸) & I 📸 with them all-tho, mostly digital now. For me, each 📷 will yield slightly different character to the image & a different experience as well. Ultimately, it’s about capturing the moment, the image of my aesthetics. Yes, I have a Leica Tpy 262-a minimalist 📷 for almost( the M-D is w/o a screen) old school photography. I enjoy the 📸 experience & the images are stunning (only when I set it correctly). I also enjoy 📸 with my Olympus e-p2 from 10+ years ago. The color is organic, the texture grainy & the images soft(in current standard). Both 📷 offer a different experience, image rendering & overall narrative presentation. I never felt one is better than the other…it’s about, por moi, what you the photographer, artist, hobbyist wished to convey with your images. If I could only keep one…🤔…either XP3 or GFX 50r…or Epson rd1…or XE2…I’m would not sell any of them, really. I just enjoy 📸 & 📷 design too much. AV, keep 📸 with your XP3-for its versatility, flexibility & IQ- perhaps, invest in lenses of various vintage & models. A Leica is like a Rolex, Mount Blanc ✒️ or a BMW, everyone feels that they have to have one, but these iconic brands will not necessarily make you better or happy. Excellent subject of discussion. ✌🏼& 📸
I have the Xpro3 as well as a Leica M240. You lost me when you complained that the Leica has a fixed magnification VF. The VF on the Xpro3 is also fixed, but in a way worse as it's magnification is much lower - .52 vs .68 on the M240 and .73 on the M10. I really like my Xpro3 - it does the one thing the Leica cannot. It can autofocus with AF lenses! The Leica obviously does not have AF but if you want to manual focus, the optical rangefinder in the Leica provides for a much quicker and more satisfying experience than manual focusing the Xpro3. It's because even though the Xpro3 has an OVF, manual focusing relies purely on the EVF - whether you use the entire EVF or the little patch of it in the bottom right hand corner. Basically the Xpro3 is a fantastic autofocus camera that has an optical viewfinder, while the Leica is a fantastic manual focus camera that uses an optical manual rangefinder. So if you can only have one - if you need AF pick the Fuji. If you want manual focus - take the Leica.
I’d be curious to know if all of this viewfinder stuff would even be physically possible when you include the analog rangefinder coupling mechanisms in that small form factor that the M10 has. The fact that they enlarged the viewfinder while shrinking the body size was apparently an absolute feat of modern engineering. That all being said, of course I’d love those features as well
Benj, thanks for watching and understanding what I was trying to say🙏 Some people seem to get a bit too sensitive about this vid😅 BTW I know you own(ed) multiple M cameras, can you please tell me how often did you have to send them for rangefinder calibration? Is it a thing or nothing to worry?
@@SergioMusel haha for sure. It’s a good idea to get one calibrated when you get it if you’re not buying new but after it should last you years. The side to side adjustment is actually really easy to do in your own too with a digital M
I have both X-pro1 and M240. For shooting purpose, X-pro series is much easier than M. But I cannot give up M because it is a piece of Art with legendary memory. Besides it is so lovely when you hold it with your hand. So I keep both cameras.
I do not understand why people crave digital Leica’s.. film yes…an M6 or M3 double stroke, yes please..but the price of a Leica digital camera? A computer with a lens, that will be obsolete in 5 years? Do not get me wrong I love my digital too, this X-pro 3 looks very interesting!
Leica is an analogue camera pretending to be digital While it works other way around for Fuji, Leica is still not there yet to implement (successfully) what is needed for a Leica, in my opinion
The X-Pro3 is my absolute favorite Fuji camera (also own X-T3, X-E3, X-S10) which is usually paired with one of the f2 Fuji prime lenses. Since getting into film photography about 3-4 months back, my love for the XPro3 has only grown. Many others have touch on this in the comments and I agree that one of the substantial short comings of the XPro3 is needing to use the EVF with MF glass. If it was able to incorporate a traditional focusing mechanism like had on 35mm film rangefinders camera’s I would rarely ever use the EVF at all. I have not handled a Leica and if I’m being real, could never justify that type of investment as an enthusiast. Not saying that I will not own one someday, but even if I did, the purchase would not be justifiable and my wife just might leave me or kill. (Please direct this message to the authorities if I’m ever found dead w/ a Leica reciept) There is a good chance that I will stick to being a Fuji Fanboy forever (for digital, its #minoltagang all day with film, haha) assuming they continue to produce and support how are they are currently. However, I will continue to watch Leica reviews on YT and dream of them now and again for as long as I am still able to hold a camera and see clearly through its’ viewfinder.
I'm pretty sure sooner or later Leica will make its way into my camera gang, but only for a check, I don't think it will be better for me personally as a main camera🤔 But that might change of course😅
As a non-professional Leica is a camera I'd love to try for a week or two. But I take out my XPRO 3 and getting the results, and the fun of the JPG/Raw styles available - plus of course the availability of FujiXWeekly, and it's Titanium toughness. I find it difficult to warrant the cost. In my youth, 60'70's, with the cost of film plus developing, you needed a healthy budget and (in my case) led to photographing conservatively. Using money to buy time, travel and explore the world, including your own area seems to me something far more worthwhile to spend money on. Leica made it's name due to reliability. In the Vietnam war Minolta, Canon & Nikon and others were used alongside Leica to do the job. Unless you are working under such conditions, taking the time to learn what you've bought and use rather than envying what others can afford means you get out there and gain experience, the greatest teacher of photography there is.
Yeah, the price is the elephant in the room, even given heritage and quality, it does not really cost this money; on the other hand, I understand that they can charge whatever they want simply because there is no other camera quite like it, and that's true...
@@SergioMusel I'm not saying that they are objectively too expensive, just that it is a bit too much for me at the moment in terms of my own priorities. Maybe that changes some day!
Now I really want to see an M11 review from you. First time I've seen/heard a reasonable critique of Leica as opposed to paying tribute at the altar...
Already owning great digital cameras, for me the price of a Leica automatically disqualifies it as the bennefits they have are simply not worth the extar money. Loose a lot of nice things just to gain a few back at an extreme price difference is just crazy. If I had the money before I would have bought my current cameras I would have fallen for a Leica. Now the extra price I need to pay offers me a lot of other nice things in life except more pixels and less buttons :-)
Obviously, saying that Leica is the only camera that you ever need or that it's the only best true camera ever is bullsh🤬t. No matter how you look at it, Leica is first of all for people who are ready to unload pretty heavy bag of cash😅 Dudes who say it deserves its price are deluded by Leica into thinking that by getting a Leica camera they become part of the brand, history, heritage and greatness. That's why Leica invests so much into magazines, exhibitions, grants, awards, etc. But it is the people who make photographs, not cameras. And people who blindly defend Leica just simply don't realize it. On the other hand, Leica does what no one else does, as of now; that's why they're free to charge whatever they want🥲 X-Pro still needs to catch up big time in terms of materials and quality of build. After holding Leica, it does feel like a toy...
While I appreciate your ideas. If Leica did this (EVFs etc) it wouldn't be an M camera. Hell if you just put AF in it it isn't the same camera anymore. You and I come from a time where the kitchen sink in cameras is taken entirely for granted and mention issues like the SD compatibility. Why? Its not like your shooting 10 frames a second on it. "Leica fucked up the M8 and M9" While this isn't entirely wrong you somehow expect a very small company to produce a flawless interchangeable lens camera from scratch and make history? They werent amazing cameras, I will give you that, but the M9 was pretty dam incredible for the time and comparing it to modern digital camera is not really fair considering for its time it was an absolute game changer. "I just want adequate tech that works well" I shot two M240s professionally for wedding work for almost 6 seasons and almost never had any issues beyond having the rangefinder calibrated a couple times. Only other cameras that have stood up to that test are my Nikon Pro DSLRs (D810, D850) "But the m240 is chunky and gives bad DNGs" says someone who has just never worked with one, with a good lens it blows the X-Pro outta the water IQ wise. I shoot M10s now and they are absolutely lovely, they are a little thinner for sure, but I don't really notice it anymore. Sure the tech is a little older and the limitations are much larger but working within those limitations is kind of what makes the camera so amazing especially as a pro documentary photographer, I also think that people think camera tech has changed so much in the last five years that its revolutionary compared to a camera that is five or so years old, despite it really not being much different, a stop or two of light here and there. I started my work with a 12mp Nikon D3 and those images still hold up today. It sounds like to me you want a Leica and have read so much about them and watched a lot of reviews but haven't ever actually used one. I know its lame but there is actually something magical about them, they allow me to shoot in a way my DSLRs and mirrorless cameras simply can't, they are beautiful and inspiring to pick up and cover somebodies happiest day. The look is absolutely beautiful. best 10k I've ever spent, fuji can't even hold a candle to my relatively exhaustive experience with Leica M Bodies. Go buy a Q if you want the kitchen sink. The M is a special camera, and will remain that way as Leica knows there are too many "purists" out there. I guess you could call me one, but dammit the digital Ms are just special, go shoot one, maybe you'll find it too. Seriously bro, go shoot the cameras come back in a year and a pile of work and tell me what you think. If you hate it, at least you'll have some active understanding. " I understand what Leica is. But if the decision is made about anything, why not make it good?" LMAO It is. You clearly do not understand my man. They are incredibly capable cameras. You'd dont need a billion ISO and 15FPS to make a camera good.
Again, I'm not saying Leicas need to perform better. By making it good, I don't mean performance, I said it multiple times. I also said that I'm completely fine with how they perform and that it's more than enough for most people. Putting EVF will not make it M camera? Oh wow, well, many would also say digital sensor won't make it same camera. Or video. But all of it was done, right? So where is the limit what can or cannot be done? M10 ISO is muuuuuch better than typ 240, does it mean they spoiled M camera? The lines are very washed out tbh, and saying that "Leica doesn't need this and that" can be as silly as saying it does need it.
@@SergioMusel You don't mean performance but half your argument relies on that? The main reason for purchasing a M body is for the experience of using one. If there is a feature that is fundamentally changing that experience then it is no longer an M camera. An EVF is a fundamental change in experience, and you could make the same argument for film Ms vs Digital Ms as you have, and that can be valid dependent on your opinion. My thought is there is no way Leica Camera would have been able to stay relevant if they only made film cameras, they were forced just like every other brand to move to digital and that transition was extremely rough for most brands as most early consumer digital cameras did not perform as well as film did. I would say the M10s ISO is a couple stops better then my M240s were, definitely better bringing shadows back in post, but that did not fundamentally change the experience in using an M body. I shoot other cameras for different jobs and some perform better and I'm excited to get my Z9 in a month or so and I'm sure it will outperform my Leicas by a long shot, but I will still keep shooting weddings on my Leica. As for video on M's they put it in the M240 and it is now gone in the M10 and I highly doubt we will be seeing it again. I don't think the M11 will change much, rumours are saying they are going put a new bottom plate on it like the SL and Q with that sweet battery and honestly I would love that, but again it will not fundamentally change the experience of using the camera. I could see in the future possibly including a small EVF in the bottom corner of the OVF that can be switched on and off and be totally hidden away when off, but that's getting close to the line of a fundamental experience change, I would have to try that to see and I bet you Leica has experimented with the idea but how would Leica fans react to that? Im not sure if I want that and I know that I don't need it, could be cool though. You sound like you want a Leica but I don't think the M is for you, get a Q or an SL. Ive used them but they don't perform as well as my DSLRs so I never bought into the SL system and stuck with my Nikon stuff. The M has an amazing experience, something which I think you desperately need to try before making a video or argument like you have. "By making it good I don't mean performance" What exactly do you mean then, in terms of performance a M240/M10 even arguably the M9 perform very well.
@@CMCairo I'm sorry you had this impression, but again, I never complained about lack of AF, or buffer, or ISO, did I? I mentioned EVF just once, and having it or not was NOT the topic of discussion at all... I do love Leica cameras, I did not mean to insult anyone... But if you take an overall camera, you can say that electronics is the weakest part of it, right? There are people for instance that never had their M9's sensor corroded until now, they would also tell me I'm wrong and Leica is great. But I'm looking at overall picture, not individual cases...
Have you ever explained why you don’t shoot or as to why you don’t like 35mm focal length ? Im still kinda new to your vids and insta . General question lol Plus i think it would be a funny video if you did it in the future, for like a certain amount of subs or “your 100th video”
I kinda tried to shoot 35mm (equiv.) only with Fuji X100, I explained why this focal length isn't for me in the review ruclips.net/video/gPn4JGnGXSI/видео.html I also had 35mm on my full frame Sony like years ago, also didn't quite like it (in case someone will say that it's different on APS-C)
Leica is just lazy. X-Pro 4 with OIS is what I'm excited about. Also, more voigtlander manual focus primes. They rock, big time. (If only they were weather sealed)
I seriously wish Leica would just release Leica M with EVF already and no the Visoflex doesn't count. A proper EVF instead of the rangefinder. I know many people will be appalled by the idea but it doesn't have to be the only Leica M, just a secondary model next to the normal M with rangefinder.
They have that in the Leica Q. Did you know that M stands for rangefinder in German? If they put an EVF in one it would no longer be an M hence the Q and SL
@@CMCairo the Q doesn't have interchangeable lenses and the SL is bulky. I really just want a M body with built-in EVF. Besides back in the day they had a Leica M without rangefinder (MD-2) for use in the medical field.
@@CMCairo Again, I mentioned EVF only once, I did not say it has to have one... And just so you know - Leica actually did consider putting a switchable EVF in M cameras, they just didn't like a technical quality out of it at the time, you can watch Thorsten Overgaard if you don't believe me. And now that Fuji did it, they still probably won't do it... But the point is - as soon as you go digital, "essentials" philosophy changes with the pace of technology, it's unavoidable... Otherwise they would still do 10mpx APS-H M bodies in 2021
Seems to me like you need to do more research into what an M camera is, more specifically how focusing works on a rangefinder. The X-Pro series are great cameras, but they have nothing in common with Leica M.
I said at the beginning - I know what it is and I'm okay with the camera as it is, the only things I didn't touch people get upset about... I never said it has to have EVF, or crazy ISO, or huge buffer, or whatever😂You're right, it is a different camera and I do not argue with that at all.
@@SergioMusel Yeah the M is a different beast. I don’t recommend it as your only camera, but rather something you use when the itch for methodical shooting arises. I own a M262 but my Sony A7C is my primary camera due to versatility and ease of use.
@@FotosyMas. I'm afraid my wife doesn't support me having second camera, if the first one costs a fortune😅So if I do the jump, it has to be complete dedication
@@SergioMusel you're absolutely right. Let me try again. You didn't buy one because you only have tee-shirts that match with the silver color of the X-Pro3? (Please accept my apologies, I didn't want to start a sterile war 😂)
I sold my X-Pro3 along with all my Fuji glass and 2 other bodies a while ago to move to a Leica M240 with Voigtlander glass and have not missed it at all.. To me Leica needs to leave the M series of camera's as they are and I have even thought about going to a Leica M-D camera that doesn't even have a back screen. Camera's today have to much tech in them that we never had when I started shooting back in the early 70's and we took great images then also.
Again, I don't care much about technical part, since I can do well with what it has, and I get the idea behind it. I just think there's always room for improvement. Especially if you pay the price of a car for it😅
Thats why Leica CL digital is also more considerable than M series. Because of digital viewfinder, cheaper price, smaller size and weight... And try to beat Leica's inner jpeg conversion (with its inner jpeg profiles) by editing raw DNGs. Me and my friend coulnt (maybe just because my and his editing - suck). So I just stayed at shooting jpegs straight away (on my T and X Vario - both sold already). Still saving money to buy Leica CL digital to use it with old cheap manual lens. And Leica's app on iPhone is just superb! Waay better than Fuji's. Almost no latency while connected via bluetooth. Very convenient for sneaky street photography using phone for remote shooting. 🤓
@@SergioMusel Waiting for even more discounts on CL than 🥳🤓 Dont get me wrong. Still love my Fuji XE-2 for its price and film like colours using old japanese and soviet lens. And multiexposure function. ps added some info about Leica’s remote shooting app on iphone 📱 ⬆️
The M system is clearly not for you, the M system is about tradition and staying true to what its always been (except for the M5). Maybe go for another Leica such as the SL or Q2
Nope, you missed my point, it is for me, no doubts, I have no problem shooting M. What you said really refers to film Leicas, not digital, and since you’re obviously into tradition side of things, digital itself is not part of tradition at all, even opposite. And to wrap up, as far as I’m concerned modern M cameras are distanced from Barnack’s Leica, so today Leicas are cameras first of all, and then comes tradition, or fame to be more exact.
Lolllll they dont change the finder for a reason think 🤔 about it! Why would one want leica optical finder and frame line!! You can see what comes into the frame ! Wow!!
I have used film leica for many years(still use them) and also have fuji xpro2. I think fuji xpro camera is all you need. If I don't own leica m and r lenses, I will definitely just keep shooting xpro. I believe there is not much image quality differences and for colors, we tweak them in photoshop anyway.
Totally agree, as I've mentioned, performance wise X-Pro3 is already enough for me, so I don't worry about that aspect very much; however, I do wish to experience that very well-made and gorgeous M10, what can I say, I like pretty things, ahah😂
LEICA is brand power with excellent marketing, etc. and hardcore, dedicated followers, collectors. The M11 with 4K video... And all too much hype. After thirty days is it just a novelty? If its only for photos...why not get a RED Komodo and do video? All images go to photo editing software anyway. Does Hasselblad have a better sensor? One super expensive camera. It's the lenses that brought many to Leica. The quality and small dimensions. After two years is a $9K camera body plus, several Leica lenses $4K to $$6K worth the price tag? Hobby...? The packaging is amazing. Very similar to Apple's quality marketing. It is a thing of beauty, quality, and engineering.
Yeah, I try to get some advise from people, but every time it's like half people say to go for Leica, telling stories how they tried and never went back. But also theres an equal amount of people saying that after years of using Leica they are so much happy with X-Pro now... I'm still trying to get as many opinions as possible, don't wanna spend a fortune without being sure... As for the new Leica - also looking forward to M11, judging from the leaked picture months ago the from factor is pretty much same, which is good. Let's see
@@SergioMusel I'd buy one used in good condition for a reasonable price and just try it out yourself. If you dont like it you can always sell it at least for the same price :) That's what i did. Started with an M3 and now also have an M9P and i quite enjoy it.
Why complicated camera? Photography is just iso,aperture and shutter speed! Why put IBIS,EVF with the shitty little screen,tilt/flip screen plus another screen on the flip screen,20/30 pages on the menu on Leica M why? People don’t like Leica because is pricey..sell a Leica M for 1500€ and everyone will lose their mind!
Completely agree, and again, I understand what Leica is. But if the decision is made about anything, why not make it good? Film Leica has been a perfect tool for ages, but if decision is made to go digital - you cannot make same perfect camera while disregarding technology. TBH I think Leica would be an even more legendary and sought after if they never went digital, jest kept making awesome film cameras.
@@-DreniM- That is true, but still, Leica seduces me with its quality and built, nothing comes close, unfortunately... And thanks for your comments - it as always good to know people watch my stuff🤝
![Leica M10 vs Fujifilm X-Pro3 | The Best Digital Rangefinder [style] Cameras](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PTrGoN7pXv0/mqdefault.jpg)
OK, key moments here 'cuz people seem to not watch the video itself, jump to conclusions and go directly into discussion:
1. I like Leica and I don't try to prove that X-Pro3 is better;
2. I never said Leica absolutely has to have EVF. In fact, I mention it just once and don't talk about it at all;
3. I comment on performance and reliability of existent electronics in M cameras, I do not mean that Leica's specs need to be better;
4. Although I didn't own one, I did shoot M10. Plus, I don't comment on things that ultimately require long-term experience with the camera;
5. There is personal experience and there are facts: if I say that M8 and M9 sensors had some major problems - that is a fact, if you say that you were OK with it for any reason - that's personal experience. Draw a line and don't make it personal, I didn't mean to insult anyone here.
The M8 and M9 are incredible cameras… even still in 2021. I still use them both and I get more traction on the photos I shoot with those than any other Leica I’ve shot with.
There’s nothing wrong with the M8 sensors, there’s just some problems with the shutters over time. But if you find one in good shape now, it’s probably fine as the bad ones failed earlier.
And the M9 has the sensors that can corrode but if it was replaced when Leica issued free warranty replacements, then it’s also fine.
I used both M8 and M9 extensively in the past several years and they’re still incredible cameras that can produce a wonderful image on par with modern day mirrorless. Bonus for the M8 and M9 is the awesome colors on the CCD sensors straight out of camera.
Beyond that, check out the SL2-S if you want a more modern Leica that’s on par with the image quality of the latest M-body Leica cameras.
All this coming from someone that also shoots with the Xpro2, and XE4. You get a handful of modern conveniences with those and they can produce a brilliant image in the right hands, but so can the older, and newer Leicas. Neither manufacturer can produce BETTER images than the other, but they both offer different shooting experiences and philosophies around using them as tools. They both offer different histories as well, that is present in every image each produces.
So it’s not about which is better. It’ll never be about that. Its about how it feels to shoot with either. And which inspires you to shoot more and use them more.
Great video. FWIW: for a long time I wanted to move from the X-Pro3 to the M series. But after a while I realized that the M and the X-Pro are not really the same kind of camera. The M is a very specific device, and it's perfect for the people it's perfect for. I think those are photographers who stick to one or two focal lengths in the normal range (e.g., 28 and 50); they often seem to have a single lens on their cameras, and have the right viewfinder for that lens. That could be me, but in my case the problem is my eyesight. Rangefinder focusing at normal focal lengths in the M OVF is a fantastic experience, but I don't see well enough to do it easily at f/5.6 and wider. The rangefinder patch is just too hard for me to see.
Given that, I started looking at the CL, SL, and Q series. The CL and Q in particular are more similar to what Fuji offers. In the end, I decided to try a Q2. It turns out to be the perfect fit for me. It has replaced the X-Pro3 and a big shelf of primes. If you shoot with the "Fujicron" 16, 23, 35, and 50, the Q2, with its big sensor and in-camera crops, can come close to replacing that entire focal-length range in a single camera. The beauty of the images exceeds what I got with both the Fujicrons and the bigger Fuji f/1.4 primes. It gives me the "Leica look"; the images are gorgeous and the black-and-whites are film-like. It has an EVF and fast AF. In terms of handling and build quality, it's exceptional. It isn't as pure an experience as the M, but it's still special in a different way. It's also comparatively affordable. A used Q2 can be found for the same cost as a used M body.
So, I would suggest that you don't overlook the Q series as a replacement for the X-Pro. Maybe you want to use zooms or very wide or long primes, in which case it won't work. But that's not really who Leica is for, in general. It seems that Leica has decided to keep the M series simple, probably to ensure continuity for users who have been investing in the system for decades and don't want the cameras to change. That's a decision that I can respect. Meanwhile, they're putting tech features into these newer designs. IMO, the Q2 is probably the "real" digital successor to the M.
Thanks! Leica Q is also quite a camera, but I mostly shoot in 35-50-90 range, so it means constant cropping and it seems like a waste then; I'm really hoping they will release something like Ricoh did with its GR: just put a tighter lens in the same camera. Since 40mm Leica is not a thing, they would probably go 50mm which would just be fantastic if you ask me. Take my money.
End of the day camera doesn’t matter. Artist’s toolbox should be adequate to economical situation.
As a owner of Leica M240, Q2, Ricoh GR3 (and in past Fuji Xt-2) can truly share that on my social media people had difficulties to guess image difference related to camera brands… or just bad photos 🤣
Great vid 🤟🏻🇸🇪
That's true!🙌 I'm currently working on a cheap camera challenge, like a $20 CCD point and shoot, and I still can get some nice results, considering what I do... but as a photographer, I do want a Leica on my shelf some day as well😁
I own the Fujifilm X-Pro3 and the Leica CL. They're both great cameras and serve different purposes in my kit. The M10 is a beautiful camera and I plan to add one to my kit next year. The big advantage for my style of shooting when using the X-Pro3 is its ability to mimic various film stocks in camera and the power of its jpeg over other mirrorless camera systems. It saves me money on film when I have a client who wants a film look without me using a film DSLR or rangefinder.
I think the CL is a great entry into the Leica ecosystem because nothing stops you from using M glass with it. Over the past few months, I've sold off all of my Fujifilm autofocus glass and replaced everything with M mount glass from Voigtlander and 7Artisans, mostly Voigtlander though. 7Artisans only has one M lens I really like and it's their 35mm f1.4. A similar company, TTArtisan just released a 28mm f5.6 pancake M mount which will be great for street photography and I might add it to my kit as well.
The primary reason I'm switching to M glass and the Leica ecosystem of cameras is that they have the ONLY camera ecosystem that is truly an asset and accrues in value over time. The quality of M glass is just better than other digital autofocus glass and in the right hands, you can make great photos. I also own the LUMIX S5 and all of the M lenses I have for my CL works on this camera. I also get to use all of L mount lenses on my CL should I have a need for autofocus.
All in all, it's up to the photographer to choose a system that works best for them. I'm not a big autofocus shooter. I do street, travel, portrait and sometimes fashion. The kit I've built serves the needs of all those styles and once I have the M10, it will become another tool in the toolkit. I'm still considering selling the X-Pro3 to buy more M glass.
Thanks for your commentary, I see many people refer to CL in a good way, I do need to see for myself whether the legendary Leica look and colors are a thing, and I really just love M10 camera body aesthetically, but considering the price I need to think twice before investing, that's why I'm taking my time and gathering people's opinions🙌
@@SergioMusel smart move on your part. I have gone through MANY cameras and lenses to get to the kit I have now. I've certainly lost money along the way when it comes to selling my older kits but it was worth it in the end.
I don't like heavy kits at all. I don't do action photography so I don't need a big DSLR style body for street and travel photography. As I mentioned, I own the Panasonic LUMIX S5 which I exclusively use for the studio, fashion, portraiture, and video. I bought it instead of the Leica SL-2. They're essentially the same camera with a BIG delta in price.
Every M mount lens I own has been adapted to L mount which is perfect for both my CL and S5 because they're both L mount cameras. As for my Fujifilm X-Pro3 I've done the same, I have X mount adapters for all my M mount glass.
I would suggest you borrow or rent a CL to get a feel for it before buying one should you choose to. For any 35mm or 50mm M mount lense, make sure to purchase a close focus adapter as opposed to getting just a standard adapter. You can thank me later.
Happy shooting.
@@d.idowuolutosin4250 Thanks a lot🙏
For the price of one Leica M10 you can get a Fujifilm X-Pro3 AND Fujifilm GFX100s. With lenses. Any further questions?
We don't talk price, that's a different topic. More cameras or bigger sensor with better performance is not at the top of the list (but does make the list though)
@@SergioMusel Please don't think for a second that I wouldn't like to buy say Leica M10. But my dad isn't Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos, so so I have to choose my purchases wisely...
@@tomislavmiletic_ Yes, that's partly my point as well... I don't say it directly 'cuz I didn't want to mention price, but the truth is that by making price times and times bigger than it should, Leica simply scares off the whole segment of potential buyers whose only constraint is budget. Would I pay $8000 for a new Leica? No. If it's $3-4K, I would consider it more easy, and Leica would still make a lot of money, because honestly, if companies can sell feature packed 100mpx medium format cameras for $6K, I can't even imagine the real production cost of Leica. Not to mention that digital Leicas depreciate much faster and stronger than film bodies, no matter what fanboys say. Even more, given the slower model refresh rate and high price, it loses value just the same way other cameras do. So yes, price is an obvious, but very important and unavoidable factor... I just hope someone (probably Fuji) will understand all the potential of the market of people who would gladly spend a lot for a classy well made camera, but not as much as Leica charges. After all that is exactly what Fuji did with medium format and retired Hasselblad overnight =)
P.S. Sorry for a long one)
@@SergioMusel My point exactly.
P.S. I don't mind a long one, on the contrary, looks more organic ;-)
Thanks for the video.
I have a Leica M10 with the following lenses:
90mm f/2
35mm f/1.4
21mm f/1.4
I have a Fuji X-Pro2 with the following lenses:
56mm f/1.2
23mm f/1.4
16mm f/1.4
Love the images from both.
No significant difference in size and weight.
Both cameras handle well.
Wish the Pro2 had the full-frame image size of the M10.
Wish the Pro2 had true rangefinder focusing like the M10.
Wish the M10 had two memory card slots like the Pro2.
Wish the M10 had the reasonable price of the Pro2.
When I purchased the M10, it was supposed to replace the Pro2 as my main camera. However, to my surprise, I prefer shooting with the Pro2.
Every time I start to lean towards like, I end up talking myself out it😅 As good as M11 is now (for a Leica), it's still not there for me as a digital camera
The X-Pro2 did have a variable magnification OVF. They changed it to a fixed magnification on the X-Pro3. It was the only feature change in the X-Pro3 that I was disappointed in. Still the X-Pro3 is my favorite camera.
Agree, same thing on my X-Pro1, have no idea why they changed to fixed...
@@SergioMusel I miss the variable OVF of the X-Pro2, but I find the X-Pro3 to have a clearer and more pleasant OVF
@@SL-jo4om It is bigger indeed, still, I think they switched to fixed mag. just to simplify things, bigger size and clarity is more like a pleasant add on as a result
Like many Fuji users I‘m feeling that Leica temptation. Solved it by investing into the GFX system - Fuji film simulations + Leica look at double the weight and half the price 🤭
GFX is also a great alternative, for me mainly because of great cropping possibility and MUCH more preferable 4:3 aspect, but I'm waiting for their GFX50R II or GFX100R, you name it; after seeing GFX100S it's clear they can make a much smaller and better rangefinder style medium format
Well your reasons did really solidify why you should stay with an X-Pro3 XD
The Leica Q is the only one I’m interested in. Never liked non fixed lens rangefinders. It’s too confusing.
Leica Q is a great camera, but I would swap 28mm for 50mm though...)
While I certainly understand your point. I’m glad that they have not conformed to what has become the norm. If Leica was to adapt every new feature that every other camera has then it would no longer be an M. It would no longer be special. The M-series is what it is because of WHAT it is. Unchanging never compromising. It’s a certain way to shoot that is different than most other cameras.
I understand that and I'm OK with it, nevertheless Leica have done already things that many would deem to be not worthy M cameras, like video feature or high resolution sensor; therefore how can we know where is the line between what's necessary and what's not...
@@SergioMusel you’ll notice that from the M10 onwards the video functionality was removed. I believe they realized that the Leica M shooter was not interested in those features. As far as high resolution sensors being implemented I hardly see how that detracts from the M series direction. In reality it was probably a smart idea to cut down on production costs to use similar sensors throughout the company’s line up.
Fuji XPRO 3 and 18mm 1.4 R LM WR… Killer combo!
I am old. I bought a Leica M3 when I was stationed in West Germany in the early 60s. Nice camera then and about a month's pay, but already lagging in tech. SLRs with built in meters were everywhere. The scales kind of fell from eyes a few years later when Leica decided it had to have an SLR to compete. They took a baseline Minolta which retailed for about $250, modified the metering a bit, and put on a red Leica badge, called it a Leicaflex and sold it for well over a thousand dollars which was a lot of money then. What you are paying for is subjective feel and old fashioned production methods and inability to keep up because of production costs which slow model changeovers. Most cameras now are great including Leica, but it truly acts like a placebo, which in the camera world is that it is better if it is old tech.
As someone who used to own an X-Pro3 and a ton of Fuji glass, I ended up selling most of my kit (now have a single lens) and just have an X-E4. Why? Because a camera that was supposed to be rugged (read: titanium body) was built with really cheap electronics. I never exposed my X-Pro3 to the elements, and yet I had to send it to Fuji Canada twice in the same year I bought it. The first time, the shutter button was sticky; it just wouldn’t fire the shutter all the time which if you do street photography, makes the camera unreliable. The second time, the flip out screen quite literally looked like a VHS Tape rewinding, because the cable had somehow partially dislodged from the motherboard on the camera. Each time I sent it in, it took roughly 6 weeks to get it back. In other words, in the first year of owning my X-Pro3 quite literally sat on a shipping truck or in the repair shop for 1/4 of the entire year. How could a Pro work with a camera like that, let alone a regular user like me? So I sold most of the kit, and put that towards a Leica MP. The reason I switched to an Analog M is personal experience, however it’s based on actual facts, as it seems in my own search many, many other people have experienced issues with their X-Pro3 specifically. It makes me sad honestly, because I dreamed of owning that camera because it checked all the right boxes for me (minus one - they should have kept 28mm framelines); I love the flippy screen, the titanium body, the clear viewfinder… if they fix the problems for an X-Pro4, I may be swayed back. But so far I’m not convinced Fuji makes quality cameras anymore.
It does have some issues, although I’ve had none so far with mine for the past year🤔 Bad samples happen from time to time, not only Fuji; and trust me, I’ve heard even more horrible things about Leicas, especially digital ones… Things are going well for Fuji these days, and 2022 is a 10th anniversary of X-Mount (and X-Pro), so hopefully they will release a quality X-Pro4 that will have everything to impress us 😉
AV, anything said about Leica 📷 is…🧨💥🔥. I’m a casual 📸 since the 70’s & i still, on occasions, 📸 with my 🎞📷. I also own 40+ 📷 (I have no 💰 or common sense, just a ❤️ for 📸) & I 📸 with them all-tho, mostly digital now. For me, each 📷 will yield slightly different character to the image & a different experience as well. Ultimately, it’s about capturing the moment, the image of my aesthetics. Yes, I have a Leica Tpy 262-a minimalist 📷 for almost( the M-D is w/o a screen) old school photography. I enjoy the 📸 experience & the images are stunning (only when I set it correctly). I also enjoy 📸 with my Olympus e-p2 from 10+ years ago. The color is organic, the texture grainy & the images soft(in current standard). Both 📷 offer a different experience, image rendering & overall narrative presentation. I never felt one is better than the other…it’s about, por moi, what you the photographer, artist, hobbyist wished to convey with your images. If I could only keep one…🤔…either XP3 or GFX 50r…or Epson rd1…or XE2…I’m would not sell any of them, really. I just enjoy 📸 & 📷 design too much. AV, keep 📸 with your XP3-for its versatility, flexibility & IQ- perhaps, invest in lenses of various vintage & models. A Leica is like a Rolex, Mount Blanc ✒️ or a BMW, everyone feels that they have to have one, but these iconic brands will not necessarily make you better or happy. Excellent subject of discussion. ✌🏼& 📸
Thanks! It is true that it feels like you need to have one... maybe I will one day, just for the sake of it at least☺️
I have the Xpro3 as well as a Leica M240. You lost me when you complained that the Leica has a fixed magnification VF. The VF on the Xpro3 is also fixed, but in a way worse as it's magnification is much lower - .52 vs .68 on the M240 and .73 on the M10. I really like my Xpro3 - it does the one thing the Leica cannot. It can autofocus with AF lenses!
The Leica obviously does not have AF but if you want to manual focus, the optical rangefinder in the Leica provides for a much quicker and more satisfying experience than manual focusing the Xpro3. It's because even though the Xpro3 has an OVF, manual focusing relies purely on the EVF - whether you use the entire EVF or the little patch of it in the bottom right hand corner.
Basically the Xpro3 is a fantastic autofocus camera that has an optical viewfinder, while the Leica is a fantastic manual focus camera that uses an optical manual rangefinder. So if you can only have one - if you need AF pick the Fuji. If you want manual focus - take the Leica.
I’d be curious to know if all of this viewfinder stuff would even be physically possible when you include the analog rangefinder coupling mechanisms in that small form factor that the M10 has. The fact that they enlarged the viewfinder while shrinking the body size was apparently an absolute feat of modern engineering. That all being said, of course I’d love those features as well
Benj, thanks for watching and understanding what I was trying to say🙏 Some people seem to get a bit too sensitive about this vid😅 BTW I know you own(ed) multiple M cameras, can you please tell me how often did you have to send them for rangefinder calibration? Is it a thing or nothing to worry?
@@SergioMusel haha for sure. It’s a good idea to get one calibrated when you get it if you’re not buying new but after it should last you years. The side to side adjustment is actually really easy to do in your own too with a digital M
@@benjhaisch Great, good to know, thanks!👌I was concerned about it a little, but all is gone now😁
"Probably" was a good choice
😉
Subscribing because the x-pro 3 videos are great and I will watch more reviews for cameras and equipment in the future
Welcome to the gang 🤜🤛
I have both X-pro1 and M240. For shooting purpose, X-pro series is much easier than M. But I cannot give up M because it is a piece of Art with legendary memory. Besides it is so lovely when you hold it with your hand.
So I keep both cameras.
Seems like I'm gonna go with that as well😅
I do not understand why people crave digital Leica’s.. film yes…an M6 or M3 double stroke, yes please..but the price of a Leica digital camera? A computer with a lens, that will be obsolete in 5 years? Do not get me wrong I love my digital too, this X-pro 3 looks very interesting!
Leica is an analogue camera pretending to be digital While it works other way around for Fuji, Leica is still not there yet to implement (successfully) what is needed for a Leica, in my opinion
The X-Pro3 is my absolute favorite Fuji camera (also own X-T3, X-E3, X-S10) which is usually paired with one of the f2 Fuji prime lenses. Since getting into film photography about 3-4 months back, my love for the XPro3 has only grown. Many others have touch on this in the comments and I agree that one of the substantial short comings of the XPro3 is needing to use the EVF with MF glass. If it was able to incorporate a traditional focusing mechanism like had on 35mm film rangefinders camera’s I would rarely ever use the EVF at all. I have not handled a Leica and if I’m being real, could never justify that type of investment as an enthusiast. Not saying that I will not own one someday, but even if I did, the purchase would not be justifiable and my wife just might leave me or kill. (Please direct this message to the authorities if I’m ever found dead w/ a Leica reciept) There is a good chance that I will stick to being a Fuji Fanboy forever (for digital, its #minoltagang all day with film, haha) assuming they continue to produce and support how are they are currently. However, I will continue to watch Leica reviews on YT and dream of them now and again for as long as I am still able to hold a camera and see clearly through its’ viewfinder.
I'm pretty sure sooner or later Leica will make its way into my camera gang, but only for a check, I don't think it will be better for me personally as a main camera🤔 But that might change of course😅
As a non-professional Leica is a camera I'd love to try for a week or two. But I take out my XPRO 3 and getting the results, and the fun of the JPG/Raw styles available - plus of course the availability of FujiXWeekly, and it's Titanium toughness. I find it difficult to warrant the cost. In my youth, 60'70's, with the cost of film plus developing, you needed a healthy budget and (in my case) led to photographing conservatively. Using money to buy time, travel and explore the world, including your own area seems to me something far more worthwhile to spend money on. Leica made it's name due to reliability. In the Vietnam war Minolta, Canon & Nikon and others were used alongside Leica to do the job. Unless you are working under such conditions, taking the time to learn what you've bought and use rather than envying what others can afford means you get out there and gain experience, the greatest teacher of photography there is.
It is always great to hear out feedback from the film era photographers, so thank you!🤝
For me, the main barrier has been the price! Otherwise I would love to shoot with Leica.
Yeah, the price is the elephant in the room, even given heritage and quality, it does not really cost this money; on the other hand, I understand that they can charge whatever they want simply because there is no other camera quite like it, and that's true...
@@SergioMusel I'm not saying that they are objectively too expensive, just that it is a bit too much for me at the moment in terms of my own priorities. Maybe that changes some day!
@Brett Hough Sad, but true
Now I really want to see an M11 review from you. First time I've seen/heard a reasonable critique of Leica as opposed to paying tribute at the altar...
Ahaha, thanks! I hope it will happen too sometime😅
Already owning great digital cameras, for me the price of a Leica automatically disqualifies it as the bennefits they have are simply not worth the extar money. Loose a lot of nice things just to gain a few back at an extreme price difference is just crazy. If I had the money before I would have bought my current cameras I would have fallen for a Leica. Now the extra price I need to pay offers me a lot of other nice things in life except more pixels and less buttons :-)
Obviously, saying that Leica is the only camera that you ever need or that it's the only best true camera ever is bullsh🤬t. No matter how you look at it, Leica is first of all for people who are ready to unload pretty heavy bag of cash😅 Dudes who say it deserves its price are deluded by Leica into thinking that by getting a Leica camera they become part of the brand, history, heritage and greatness. That's why Leica invests so much into magazines, exhibitions, grants, awards, etc. But it is the people who make photographs, not cameras. And people who blindly defend Leica just simply don't realize it. On the other hand, Leica does what no one else does, as of now; that's why they're free to charge whatever they want🥲 X-Pro still needs to catch up big time in terms of materials and quality of build. After holding Leica, it does feel like a toy...
Very good points all around!
Thanks a lot🙌
While I appreciate your ideas. If Leica did this (EVFs etc) it wouldn't be an M camera. Hell if you just put AF in it it isn't the same camera anymore. You and I come from a time where the kitchen sink in cameras is taken entirely for granted and mention issues like the SD compatibility. Why? Its not like your shooting 10 frames a second on it. "Leica fucked up the M8 and M9" While this isn't entirely wrong you somehow expect a very small company to produce a flawless interchangeable lens camera from scratch and make history? They werent amazing cameras, I will give you that, but the M9 was pretty dam incredible for the time and comparing it to modern digital camera is not really fair considering for its time it was an absolute game changer. "I just want adequate tech that works well" I shot two M240s professionally for wedding work for almost 6 seasons and almost never had any issues beyond having the rangefinder calibrated a couple times. Only other cameras that have stood up to that test are my Nikon Pro DSLRs (D810, D850) "But the m240 is chunky and gives bad DNGs" says someone who has just never worked with one, with a good lens it blows the X-Pro outta the water IQ wise. I shoot M10s now and they are absolutely lovely, they are a little thinner for sure, but I don't really notice it anymore. Sure the tech is a little older and the limitations are much larger but working within those limitations is kind of what makes the camera so amazing especially as a pro documentary photographer, I also think that people think camera tech has changed so much in the last five years that its revolutionary compared to a camera that is five or so years old, despite it really not being much different, a stop or two of light here and there. I started my work with a 12mp Nikon D3 and those images still hold up today. It sounds like to me you want a Leica and have read so much about them and watched a lot of reviews but haven't ever actually used one. I know its lame but there is actually something magical about them, they allow me to shoot in a way my DSLRs and mirrorless cameras simply can't, they are beautiful and inspiring to pick up and cover somebodies happiest day. The look is absolutely beautiful. best 10k I've ever spent, fuji can't even hold a candle to my relatively exhaustive experience with Leica M Bodies. Go buy a Q if you want the kitchen sink. The M is a special camera, and will remain that way as Leica knows there are too many "purists" out there. I guess you could call me one, but dammit the digital Ms are just special, go shoot one, maybe you'll find it too. Seriously bro, go shoot the cameras come back in a year and a pile of work and tell me what you think. If you hate it, at least you'll have some active understanding.
" I understand what Leica is. But if the decision is made about anything, why not make it good?"
LMAO It is. You clearly do not understand my man. They are incredibly capable cameras. You'd dont need a billion ISO and 15FPS to make a camera good.
Again, I'm not saying Leicas need to perform better. By making it good, I don't mean performance, I said it multiple times. I also said that I'm completely fine with how they perform and that it's more than enough for most people. Putting EVF will not make it M camera? Oh wow, well, many would also say digital sensor won't make it same camera. Or video. But all of it was done, right? So where is the limit what can or cannot be done? M10 ISO is muuuuuch better than typ 240, does it mean they spoiled M camera? The lines are very washed out tbh, and saying that "Leica doesn't need this and that" can be as silly as saying it does need it.
@@SergioMusel You don't mean performance but half your argument relies on that? The main reason for purchasing a M body is for the experience of using one. If there is a feature that is fundamentally changing that experience then it is no longer an M camera. An EVF is a fundamental change in experience, and you could make the same argument for film Ms vs Digital Ms as you have, and that can be valid dependent on your opinion. My thought is there is no way Leica Camera would have been able to stay relevant if they only made film cameras, they were forced just like every other brand to move to digital and that transition was extremely rough for most brands as most early consumer digital cameras did not perform as well as film did. I would say the M10s ISO is a couple stops better then my M240s were, definitely better bringing shadows back in post, but that did not fundamentally change the experience in using an M body. I shoot other cameras for different jobs and some perform better and I'm excited to get my Z9 in a month or so and I'm sure it will outperform my Leicas by a long shot, but I will still keep shooting weddings on my Leica. As for video on M's they put it in the M240 and it is now gone in the M10 and I highly doubt we will be seeing it again. I don't think the M11 will change much, rumours are saying they are going put a new bottom plate on it like the SL and Q with that sweet battery and honestly I would love that, but again it will not fundamentally change the experience of using the camera. I could see in the future possibly including a small EVF in the bottom corner of the OVF that can be switched on and off and be totally hidden away when off, but that's getting close to the line of a fundamental experience change, I would have to try that to see and I bet you Leica has experimented with the idea but how would Leica fans react to that? Im not sure if I want that and I know that I don't need it, could be cool though. You sound like you want a Leica but I don't think the M is for you, get a Q or an SL. Ive used them but they don't perform as well as my DSLRs so I never bought into the SL system and stuck with my Nikon stuff. The M has an amazing experience, something which I think you desperately need to try before making a video or argument like you have. "By making it good I don't mean performance" What exactly do you mean then, in terms of performance a M240/M10 even arguably the M9 perform very well.
@@CMCairo I'm sorry you had this impression, but again, I never complained about lack of AF, or buffer, or ISO, did I? I mentioned EVF just once, and having it or not was NOT the topic of discussion at all... I do love Leica cameras, I did not mean to insult anyone... But if you take an overall camera, you can say that electronics is the weakest part of it, right? There are people for instance that never had their M9's sensor corroded until now, they would also tell me I'm wrong and Leica is great. But I'm looking at overall picture, not individual cases...
Have you ever explained why you don’t shoot or as to why you don’t like 35mm focal length ?
Im still kinda new to your vids and insta .
General question lol
Plus i think it would be a funny video if you did it in the future, for like a certain amount of subs or “your 100th video”
I kinda tried to shoot 35mm (equiv.) only with Fuji X100, I explained why this focal length isn't for me in the review ruclips.net/video/gPn4JGnGXSI/видео.html I also had 35mm on my full frame Sony like years ago, also didn't quite like it (in case someone will say that it's different on APS-C)
Leica is just lazy. X-Pro 4 with OIS is what I'm excited about. Also, more voigtlander manual focus primes. They rock, big time. (If only they were weather sealed)
I hope X-Pro4 will be great, really interested about that rumored switchable sensor resolution in M11 though as well... Need to see them both😋
OIS users are lazy, just saying.
@@tejashbista4661 OMG Leica fans are really one of the most toxic ones, seriously😂Just saying.
Because you only have 5-10k for camera gear, not 50-100k?
Ouch🥲
I seriously wish Leica would just release Leica M with EVF already and no the Visoflex doesn't count. A proper EVF instead of the rangefinder. I know many people will be appalled by the idea but it doesn't have to be the only Leica M, just a secondary model next to the normal M with rangefinder.
They did kinda followed mainstream and released a higher resolution model, so nothing is impossible, who knows🤔
They have that in the Leica Q. Did you know that M stands for rangefinder in German? If they put an EVF in one it would no longer be an M hence the Q and SL
@@CMCairo the Q doesn't have interchangeable lenses and the SL is bulky. I really just want a M body with built-in EVF. Besides back in the day they had a Leica M without rangefinder (MD-2) for use in the medical field.
@@CMCairo Again, I mentioned EVF only once, I did not say it has to have one... And just so you know - Leica actually did consider putting a switchable EVF in M cameras, they just didn't like a technical quality out of it at the time, you can watch Thorsten Overgaard if you don't believe me. And now that Fuji did it, they still probably won't do it... But the point is - as soon as you go digital, "essentials" philosophy changes with the pace of technology, it's unavoidable... Otherwise they would still do 10mpx APS-H M bodies in 2021
Seems to me like you need to do more research into what an M camera is, more specifically how focusing works on a rangefinder.
The X-Pro series are great cameras, but they have nothing in common with Leica M.
I said at the beginning - I know what it is and I'm okay with the camera as it is, the only things I didn't touch people get upset about... I never said it has to have EVF, or crazy ISO, or huge buffer, or whatever😂You're right, it is a different camera and I do not argue with that at all.
@@SergioMusel Yeah the M is a different beast. I don’t recommend it as your only camera, but rather something you use when the itch for methodical shooting arises.
I own a M262 but my Sony A7C is my primary camera due to versatility and ease of use.
@@FotosyMas. I'm afraid my wife doesn't support me having second camera, if the first one costs a fortune😅So if I do the jump, it has to be complete dedication
Mmm let me guess...
Price?
No price OR performance discussions in here😉
@@SergioMusel you're absolutely right.
Let me try again.
You didn't buy one because you only have tee-shirts that match with the silver color of the X-Pro3?
(Please accept my apologies, I didn't want to start a sterile war 😂)
@@REMY.C. Ahah, well, to be completely honest, if I have Leica, I might not have any clothes or belonging left at all 😅😂
@@SergioMusel 😂 who cares a Leica would cover you with it's magnificence.
@@REMY.C. Ahaha, yeah, nobody will care what I'm wearing... me included😜
I sold my X-Pro3 along with all my Fuji glass and 2 other bodies a while ago to move to a Leica M240 with Voigtlander glass and have not missed it at all.. To me Leica needs to leave the M series of camera's as they are and I have even thought about going to a Leica M-D camera that doesn't even have a back screen. Camera's today have to much tech in them that we never had when I started shooting back in the early 70's and we took great images then also.
Again, I don't care much about technical part, since I can do well with what it has, and I get the idea behind it. I just think there's always room for improvement. Especially if you pay the price of a car for it😅
Your lighting is similar to the lighting in the movie "The Godfather" 👏🙂
Thanks, wow, now that you've said it does look similar to me too😅
Thats why Leica CL digital is also more considerable than M series. Because of digital viewfinder, cheaper price, smaller size and weight...
And try to beat Leica's inner jpeg conversion (with its inner jpeg profiles) by editing raw DNGs. Me and my friend coulnt (maybe just because my and his editing - suck). So I just stayed at shooting jpegs straight away (on my T and X Vario - both sold already).
Still saving money to buy Leica CL digital to use it with old cheap manual lens.
And Leica's app on iPhone is just superb! Waay better than Fuji's. Almost no latency while connected via bluetooth. Very convenient for sneaky street photography using phone for remote shooting. 🤓
Since recently I saw huge discounts for CL kits, I guess Leica is ready to show us something more besides M11😉
@@SergioMusel Waiting for even more discounts on CL than 🥳🤓
Dont get me wrong. Still love my Fuji XE-2 for its price and film like colours using old japanese and soviet lens. And multiexposure function.
ps added some info about Leica’s remote shooting app on iphone 📱 ⬆️
@@yurypisar347 Yeah, Fuji's app experience is far from perfect... So is probably 90% of camera brand apps, I guess😅
I’m gonna be sticking with my X-Pro 2 for a while. I would love a Q2 tho
Q2 is nice, wish they had a 50mm option instead of 28mm
@@SergioMusel ugh yeah man. Specially now with COVID, getting close to ppl is not ideal.
@@AbrahamMusalem I doo shoot wide from time to time, but 50/90 is used much more, so getting Q with 28 is not ideal for sure
Are you based in Shanghai
You can say that, yes
The M system is clearly not for you, the M system is about tradition and staying true to what its always been (except for the M5). Maybe go for another Leica such as the SL or Q2
Nope, you missed my point, it is for me, no doubts, I have no problem shooting M. What you said really refers to film Leicas, not digital, and since you’re obviously into tradition side of things, digital itself is not part of tradition at all, even opposite. And to wrap up, as far as I’m concerned modern M cameras are distanced from Barnack’s Leica, so today Leicas are cameras first of all, and then comes tradition, or fame to be more exact.
Lolllll they dont change the finder for a reason think 🤔 about it! Why would one want leica optical finder and frame line!! You can see what comes into the frame ! Wow!!
1. I didn't say anything against having OVF; 2. I didn't say anything against having framelines. Conclusion: watch again maybe?
Great intro
Thanks!
I have used film leica for many years(still use them) and also have fuji xpro2. I think fuji xpro camera is all you need. If I don't own leica m and r lenses, I will definitely just keep shooting xpro. I believe there is not much image quality differences and for colors, we tweak them in photoshop anyway.
Totally agree, as I've mentioned, performance wise X-Pro3 is already enough for me, so I don't worry about that aspect very much; however, I do wish to experience that very well-made and gorgeous M10, what can I say, I like pretty things, ahah😂
LEICA is brand power with excellent marketing, etc. and hardcore, dedicated followers, collectors. The M11 with 4K video... And all too much hype. After thirty days is it just a novelty? If its only for photos...why not get a RED Komodo and do video? All images go to photo editing software anyway. Does Hasselblad have a better sensor? One super expensive camera. It's the lenses that brought many to Leica. The quality and small dimensions. After two years is a $9K camera body plus, several Leica lenses $4K to $$6K worth the price tag? Hobby...? The packaging is amazing. Very similar to Apple's quality marketing. It is a thing of beauty, quality, and engineering.
Obviously digital Leicas don't hold the price as film bodies, but lenses are whole different story, it's true
LOL, I'd never trade my M10 nor M8 for an X-Pro. I'm looking forward to the new M.
Yeah, I try to get some advise from people, but every time it's like half people say to go for Leica, telling stories how they tried and never went back. But also theres an equal amount of people saying that after years of using Leica they are so much happy with X-Pro now... I'm still trying to get as many opinions as possible, don't wanna spend a fortune without being sure... As for the new Leica - also looking forward to M11, judging from the leaked picture months ago the from factor is pretty much same, which is good. Let's see
@@SergioMusel I'd buy one used in good condition for a reasonable price and just try it out yourself.
If you dont like it you can always sell it at least for the same price :)
That's what i did. Started with an M3 and now also have an M9P and i quite enjoy it.
@@TheGermanCompounder Good idea, just need time to save money)))
why i am eating Pizza today
Because it's probably the BEST DAMN FOOD ON EARTH 🍕
@@SergioMusel i should make a video about it
@@_o__o_ Why not😂
That’s what I thought three leicas ago 😂😂😂😭😭😭
I'm pretty sure If I get one, I would never go back to anything else 😂
Well well well 😂
This was shot before M11 came out 😅 ...and I said "probably", alright?😁
Why complicated camera?
Photography is just iso,aperture and shutter speed!
Why put IBIS,EVF with the shitty little screen,tilt/flip screen plus another screen on the flip screen,20/30 pages on the menu on Leica M why?
People don’t like Leica because is pricey..sell a Leica M for 1500€ and everyone will lose their mind!
Completely agree, and again, I understand what Leica is. But if the decision is made about anything, why not make it good? Film Leica has been a perfect tool for ages, but if decision is made to go digital - you cannot make same perfect camera while disregarding technology. TBH I think Leica would be an even more legendary and sought after if they never went digital, jest kept making awesome film cameras.
None of my issues are about the price btw
My friend the problem is not camera but people,is simple to create good images with a simple camera.
Another thing i love your channel..keep it up!!
@@-DreniM- That is true, but still, Leica seduces me with its quality and built, nothing comes close, unfortunately... And thanks for your comments - it as always good to know people watch my stuff🤝
@@SergioMusel just try one for 2/3 month and not for 2/3 minutes, you will see if it's for you or not