Is Leica Really 5x Better Than Fujifilm? My Detailed Comparison
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- Опубликовано: 11 июл 2024
- In this video I look at the Leica M11 and Fujifilm X-Pro3, and given the price difference, is the former five times better than the latter.
00:00 The Montage
00:34 The Introduction
02:01 The Metrics
02:18 Image Quality
03:24 Feature Set
04:18 Design
05:40 Ergonomics
07:29 Usability
08:50 Lens Ecosystem
09:45 Connectivity
10:54 Reliability
12:13 Customer Support
13:50 Community
17:26 Final Thoughts
18:08 Is Leica 5x better?
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#LeicaM11 #FujifilmXPro3
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Great video!
The thing that come to mind is, at what point does a photographer feel like they are receiving diminishing returns? At what point does the incremental improvement, functions or features don’t feel worth the price tag? I believe that a professional that generates a good income and client base can more easily justify the incremental improvement. For others, especially those with financial limitations, good enough is more than enough. My takeaway from this episode is to know your art and the set of brushes that will allow you to create your masterpiece.
Well said, thank you for sharing 🙏🏾
Real talk. Love the video. As with all many of your videos, you put stuff in context and you do it a very articulate and well-thought out manner. Very respectful to everyone’s creative/photography journey. Always looking forward to more of your content! More power. 😊
I appreciate that, thank you ✌🏾
Also, I think since Fuji is going after that feel/essence that Leica has kept all this time, and that’s why the two will eternally be compared, Fuji should take some risks and make Fujinon manual focus lenses, even if they outsource them. That would be just amazing .
There's already a Voigtlander 35mm X mount manual lens and I've heard great things about it from people who own it. Definitely has a vintage look to the photos. That lens and an X-Pro 3 and you have a 'wallet friendly Leica' 😉 for about a fifth of the price.
Pair any Voightlander m mount lens with an adapter and you’ve got the coveted Leica look. Concentrate on developing your eye and the name on the camera doesn’t matter at all.
@@Seeattle Not gonna happen, that would mean an entirely new mount and camera line, and they’ve deliberately kept out of the FF battle. Hence their GFX “larger than full frame” strategy. If rumour is anything to go by, they are about to introduce a 40Mp XH2. Hence their new XT lenses having such high resolving power.
The reason why Leica works so well with the manual lenses, is the fact that they have an actual rangefinder mechanism, that was perfected during the last century. Fuji doesn't have that. Sure, their split manual focus view is good, where you're looking at a full image, and a zoomed in image right next to it, but it doesn't even come close to an actual rangefinder. It just wouldn't work, and the way I see it, it's not worth the resources when there are so many amazing AF lenses out there for the XF mount. I think the commitment should be getting rid of the LCD on the X-Pro line altogether, like an m10-d. Now that would be a message, and they sort of already did it with the hidden screen.
@@Seeattle absolutely unneeded, from a r&d viewpoint, and also, it doesn't make sense for the customers either. Yeah, full frame is great, and all that, but for most of the time, you can't tell the difference. All my clients are absolutely happy with the images they get out of my X-T3, be it weddings, or portraits, or working for a local newspaper. Not one complaint about the image quality ever.
Another amazing and insightful video!
I think it's a testament to Fujifilm's inventiveness and ability to create rich shooting experiences that the X-Pro3, a supposedly "inferior" APS-C camera, is even being compared to a camera like the Leica M11. The fact that its design, aesthetic language and usability can even be considered as a competitor to a kit 5x the cost, shows that even if the X-Pro3 is not exactly (but extremely close to being) equal to the M11 on the Creative Execution scale, it's still an insanely good value.
At the end of the day, the reasons for buying either camera is so subjective and contingent on your specific needs, that value is almost impossible to quantify and that's what makes a Leica worth it for some people.
It's also worth mentioning that given the crazy product cycles that cameras and other gear go through these days, with updates almost every year, a Leica may have longer "staying power" that could translate into using that camera 5x longer than using an X-Pro3 (before the next iteration comes and the inevitable GAS kicks in).
Well said, and also resale value could make the investment tip the scales a bit but again, real-world value is still a tight race. Thanks for watching Larry!
A very well balanced, honest comparison. I actually agree with you.
I am an amateur photographer. I do not have an M11 but rather a M-D 262. I grew up shooting an M2 but only DSLR's were available when I lost my access to a darkroom and the cost of film was becoming too much for my needs. Fuji solved that for me with the X-E1. I became a Fuji addict and loved what their cameras and lenses did for my photography. I was fortunate enough to have both the money and the opportunity to purchase my digital Leica two years ago and it has replaced all my Fuji gear but what I require for wildlife and bird photography (X-T4 and 70-300mm).
I think what you say is true, Leica and Fuji are VERY similar across the board. For me it was aligning the rangefinder patch, getting the shot I want, the return of my M2 film experience with digital, the learning experience, the simplicity that led to the Fujis being becoming unused and eventually sold.
I appreciate you sharing this Peter. Thanks for watching.
Truly appreciated this, especially breaking down the problems with doing such A vs. B comparisons.
There was one thing that came to mind for me, however: not all of us are able to get our hands on a Leica to give that tool a try, to put it through our average and daily reps, to see for ourselves whether the investment is in fact worth it. I have used a variety of cameras, film & digital, different brands, and truly love the Fuji’s I have & use for what I do. I have never touched a Leica. I have only read about or heard of their status and legendary greatness. And one thing I cannot afford to do is pay a substantial amount up front to test those waters. So while I agree with you that we can’t really know if a tool will work for us until we get our hands on them, some of us will never know because of the limitations on our access to those tools.
Although I believe I can do quality work with the tools I have, I have long questioned, as your scale touched on, could I push further if I had this particular camera that folks, whose opinions and perspectives I respect highly, seem to promote? (Not saying Woe is me, by the way. I haven’t prioritized saving the funds for such an investment.)
Again, truly appreciated this video. Thanks so much.
You raise a good point. I appreciate the honesty. I wonder what the market is like for Leica rentals because outside of sitting with a friend in the space, that would be the best route to get your feet wet.
A rental is how I got into Leica...I was curious about what the Leica experience was all about. I gotta say I was hooked. It changed the way I feel about cameras and what a user experience should be. That sounds like hyperbole but it's true. But I also understand why people who won't ever try Leica's often bash them, or just don't understand the value for the money. It's not everyone's cup of tea...but it's mine. They aren't worth X-times more than other cameras on paper, but they are the only camera company offering that experience and with extremely high quality products.
Best bet is to rent unfortunately.
Fantastic video. While I was a bit skeptical when you started going down the categories... similar many other X vs. Y reviews (which you normally don't do), you did not let us down in the end.
Once again, your final segment of the video is spot-on, where you brought the whole story home in the context of what is the value to the photographer in the context of their workflows and their needs - and not just comparing features or whatnot.
Mad respect to you Mr. Gajan Balan, thanks for taking the time to make these videos! :)
I truly appreciate you taking the time to share that Todd, thank you.
I agree totally with your final assessment. Which camera works best for the creative process and satisfying final results of the photographer must be weighted far more than other considerations. Use cases are also important when one considers sports, wildlfe and action photography. The one wee picky point I have is taking exception to giving the lens ecosystem nod to Leica. Just about every SLR and DSLR and Leica M lens ever made, can be used with simple adapters on Fujifilm cameras as well Sony full frame cameras for that matter. Yes most must be manually focused, but so must all lenses for the Leica M11. Great video sir!
Well said. Thanks for watching!
Man, I'm not in the market for either and probably won't be for a while (if ever) and I find myself sitting here watching till the end. Gajan, you make great videos man, appreciate you brother!
Haha, I truly appreciate that Mike. Thanks for watching ✌🏾
@@GajanBalan ✌
Another great review from you!✌️
Great comparison. After years of laying dormant from the analog world, I jumped into the digital game. I scrutinized all options. Each brand has their positives and negatives. Canon? Cannot beat their autofocus. But I don't care for the characterless and clinical image they tend to yield. (Good for sports and nature maybe). Add to that, the molded body with menus and buttons that just don't connect me to the product. Sony and Nikon? Similar to Cannon.
When it came to Fuji, I immediately felt at home with the manual dials. And then that red dot Leica was looking at me too. No question a fine tool. Considering I had just come into a small amount of money... I could have gone with Leica but the price difference was far too great. I found the XT-4 with the classic 16mm 1.4 was giving me some pretty damn good results, especially for street work. (I took it into 2 hurricanes without issue). I will admit though, sometimes I wish it was a Leica but once I get into editing, I can really get close, if not spot on to the Leica look. It usually boils down to nailing contrast and the blacks. In any event, I appreciate both cameras. You can produce good work with either.
Great video Gajan! Applying your scorecard, in addition the creative vision scale, has me contemplating the gear I would use myself plus what would be best for my wife. I bought her a rugged, waterproof camera that goes unused. The camera is easy enough to use but she is technophobic, so she doesn't know how transfer the images to her phone, nor does she have any desire to learn how to do that. But she likes taking pictures and has a good eye for composition. so to maximize her creative vision I need to find system that has extremely simple connectivity or get her the best cell phone camera I can find.
Your hair is always perfect, that's the real winner IMO. loved this comparison, great video bro. I personally like the fuji myself but that's just me. Keep these videos coming man!
Haha, thanks ✌🏾
Awesome considered review! Love it! On an aside, how did you end up choosing the black over silver M11? Would value your insight on this! Thank You!
Silver is classic but black is timeless. At least in my opinion 😅 Thanks for watching!
I gave my Q2 to my training assistant to take some shots of me and some pupils. I set it on touch and focus release! Simples! She just touched my face the LCDscreen. It focused and shot in a second. Great feature.
It’s all about the journey and using what inspires and will get one to pick up a camera to shoot. I’ve said this once and I’ll say it again, as a former Nikon shooter, Nikon got me into photography, but when I switched to Fuji, it made me a photographer. I’ve seen street and portrait photographers use Polaroid instant cameras professionally. It’s a bit niche, but if it works for them and they make a living out of it, then great! More power. For you, if the Leica helps your workflow, inspires you, and gets the type of image you vision, then great! More power to you.
Well said Daniel. Thanks for watching.
Excellent review and clarification of your vision.
Very thorough and honest comparison! Bravo!
As a Fujifilm shooter; kudos on remaining unbiased and analytical in your determinations on this professional comparison.
This is not an easy thing to do when removing the emotional response to shooting and focusing on the benefits from a professional standpoint.
A true, and intelligent conclusion.
For me, I'm not on your professional level, but, I am aspiring to save and fulfill my leica destiny. Leica will, eventually, be in my arsenal alongside my beloved Fujifilm's.
Love it 😉.
A very helpful video, 👌. I would be fascinated to hear what features are in your 10 point gap
Great video, Gajan. Excellent attention to detail. Thank you.
Thanks for watching ✌🏾
I would add one more category: availability/portability. This would not only apply to bulk but also to risk. The M11 and the X-Pro3 seem to be about the same size. But there are places I would take the Fuji rather than the Leica because of the risk factor.
Currently without a camera just sold my R5 because I can’t deal with large camera systems with big lenses anymore. So these both seem intriguing
My X-Pro 3 lives to see another day. I can’t stress how much my X-Pro 3 has inspired me to get up and shoot. I hope to get a Leica one day but for now I’m well content for what I have and what I can create with it. Thanks for the video Gajan! We appreciate you bro 😎
well said brother, and that x-pro3 can go toe-to-toe with most cameras on the market and still hold its own. Thanks for watching!
Gajan completely agree with your concluding remarks. Ultimately any camera is a tool and it’s value (as opposed to its price) will be determined by its user and their creative needs. If I could afford it I would love to own an M11 (and moreover the Monochrom) but I also know that the skill level I have together with the limited amount of time I could devote to practice means that my results from a Fuji and the Leica would be largely on par. The only thing I’ve learnt from my last 10 years of photography is stop chasing for the next new tool and master the tool that you have. Thank you again for a great video
oooooooh Gaj hitting the topics !!
Haha, thanks for watching as always brother!
Very cool video. I like how you laid things out and gave your opinions based on your experiences. I do agree with pretty much all your points, the pros and cons of each brand.
While I can see and understand the value a Leica may provide for others, for me and my work, it is not worth the money, and provides zero benefit over what my X-Pro3 offers.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks for watching 🙏🏾
Love this review! You hit on the key topic...what tool gets you to where you want to go! Price with Leica's is a factor, but that aside Leica makes wonderful cameras. I've been looking to go back to an M body from my Q. This video makes me want an M even more. I rented an M10P recently and it's just better for me in so many ways. I used to own a Pro-3 and a 100V as well....this may sound weird but most cameras have too many features for me. I love the minimalist shooting experience Leica provides.
Well said. Thanks for sharing!
Well said...
But what is that strap on your xPro3?
Looks really nice
A beautiful round-up, and I totally agree about your exponential degree observations of price versus certain qualities. It applies in almost aspects of life and the individual's passion and hobbies - Cars, Boats, Cameras, Fancy Chef Ovens - at some point that last 10%, does it matter to the individual? Maybe. Want it? But rest assured - You'll be $paying$ for it..
Well said! Thanks for watching ✌🏾
Thank you so much. I really enjoyed this, thought your approach was highly intelligent and very interesting at the end and have some questions:
1. What was it specifically about the Leica for you and the way you practice the art of photography that took it to 95 as opposed to 85?
2. Can you do one of these videos on Leica glass. Summilux vs Summicron or whatever you shoot and what you prefer or what you see is being best for when?
3. For you, as a very experienced user, which of the 2 was the easiest to shoot with from a workflow and functionality perspective. Please ignore the app and anything post taking the photo in answering this Q?
4. When would you prefer to use the bigger GFX100s which you mentioned you liked? Which is the better for formal portraiture? And which is the better landscape camera? Can you give some thoughts on this as you use both?
Can you please make a video and talk about the issue of the new samyang 12mm af f2 lens. Concerning the problem with the ibis when used in combination with the x-s10. Because for some reason, the ibis stops working. Fujifilm and samyang are not doing anything to fix this, but maybe if we get enough people talking about it, they will address the problem. Thank you.
a nice fair video comparing the two cameras and points where fuji can be better in certain situations but they still have room for improvements like their phone app.
just wondering from using the leica where you able to test the different mega-pixel modes and whether it delivers better dynamic range they claim it delivers?
Thanks and no, I haven't yet seen a noticeable jump in dynamic range or noise performance yet but I'm going to use it in more street situations to see if there's something tangible here. Thanks for watching!
For the lens ecosystem I would say there's a huge advantage to Fuji on which you can adapt plethora of lenses including Leica's one, even Fuji have their M adapter.
For the reliability and customer service, I'd say Leica. In their warranty/repair system, they clearly say (I read it on the website) that their mechanical cameras for exemple, have a 30 years spare parts availability. That's just huge. When you know you can give them your 30 year old camera and have it checked and tweaked for 300€/$ that's a huge plus.
Also for the community, Leica is sometimes a bit elitist. But I find both communities to be interesting as you can always find someone to help you and you can find inspiring people.
Yes, Leica has a very good service. But only if you can wait a long time for repairs and it is quite costly compared to other companies.
Nice review! Loved the “deception” there hahaha.
I have owned and shot the M6 and I own a xpro3 and for me it would be difficult to shoot a digital leica, although I’d certainly love to try.
One thing that worries me is exposing properly. With film its super easy for me to get the right exposure with a leica because you just expose for the shadows and take your shot with negative film, or do “average” exposure with slide film. With a fuji, exposing properly without using wysiwyg is hard, but the histogram helps a ton. With Leica? I have no idea, I would just have to trust the camera and yolo it, or shoot and chimp to check….
The leica/cosina/chinese glass is nice because the lenses are good compact and have DOF scales printed on them, but quality-wise they are comparable to fuji glass or maybe even worse. Still, shooting with a rangefinder is a nice experience so I’d still get one if I had the chance, if anything just to try!
Maybe at some point think about getting a film leica, I can 100% recommend them 😉
I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense. For me, with a focus on architecture the GFX 100S, and the ability to use 645 and 66 lenses with tilt shift adapters as well as Canon and Laowa shift lenses makes the GFX a premiere tool. Probably with more points than the Phase One.
Another analogy might be using high end British or Japanese wood saws. Once you have used a truly high end tool, it’s hard to use anything else.
That being said I probably will be getting one of even two X Pro 3 in the near future.
Great video, well explained.
Thank you for the balanced comparison. And Haha, always reminds me of the Pareto principle - you’ll get 80% done with 20% effort. But the the remaining 20% take 80% of effort. Translates well to camera gear, I’ve found. As a non pro shooter who doesn’t baby his gear, I have an additional metric: “how much am I f***ed if the camera gets destroyed/stolen etc” and “does this keep me from taking it out?”. Probably depends on your financial situation (and insurance), but I feel much more comfortable throwing a Fuji into my backpack than I would with a 10k camera 😉
Haha, great point. I mean, it’ll definitely hurt should anything happen to my pricier equipment but at some point you gotta just suck it up and push the gear. Like taking a 911 to a few track days 😅
Ultimately an interesting take. For me it's as easy as whether the better image quality from the Leica is worth the purchase price. Then it's just a matter of mortgaging your house!
I'd been a Fuji user ( and still am) but bought the Leica T after watching a Mattias Burling video at a bargain price (for less than X100F money) and used it. I began to understand the Leica ethos - clean, elegant and reliable. Sooner or later I'll pick up a q2--- I'll still continue to use and love my x t-3, and x-e3 but sometimes I want what one gives, sometimes the other. Btw Kudos on your bookcase- Ed Catmull-- Creativity Inc, Gordon Parks-the new tide and Magnum Contact Sheets-- all essential. You should do a video on your books sometime.
Thanks for watching and yes, I hope to diverge from the review content soon. To be frank, the goal is to leverage these gear videos to get to 50K, while doing in with our style and detail, then begin doing more experimental videos that are personal to me. I appreciate you noticing.
There is another perspective that’s worthwhile considering. The process of mastering a new tool can lead to unexpected creative growth. So, it is not only how much closer one or the other will lead you toward your creative goal but also how radical a departure is the tool from your current experience. Of course, this pushing you outside your comfort zone is the luxury of the non professional.
Coming back and watching this again after a handful of months. Months that were spent with my Q2 Monochrom, my x100v, and my X-T3. Months also spent with two of those cameras sitting almost the entire time while the one came with me everywhere on every shoot. Yes, the Q2 cost the same as both of the Fuji's with the lenses for the X-T3 together... and it was the one tool for me that got me closest to what I wanted to shoot and how I wanted to shoot. So much so that this past week I sold my X-T3 and my x100v might be sold this week.
The M11 and lenses are simply out of my reach financially, but the Q2 in a colour? That may just be my second shooter. Because at the end of the day, these are the tools that bring my joy of shooting to the highest levels I've had so far.
An interesting review but would love that you do a sample comparison but with an GFX 50 II
Ciao Gajan, video molto interessante, grazie. Saluti dall' Italia. Hi Gajan, very interesting video, thank you. Greetings from Italy.
Grazie Adriano 🙏🏾
Where did you get your shutter button. I'm looking for one for my Q3
Bruh, you rock that Tony Northrup hair...lol Seriously though, nice video. I use Fuji for digital, and also use Leica lenses on sometimes. I shoot an old Leica M2 for film.
You’ve insulted me and my barber, how dare you 😂
Thanks for watching ✌🏾
Would love to see the Leica lens mounted on the Fuji body with a side-by-side comparison and photographs, as you know the lenses give your photography character and I know like of lenses have a very unique character and how they render images. Personally I shoot Fujifilm and a lot of my lenses are vintage Nikon lenses, coming from Nikon for frame I have really enjoyed the switch.
I might take exception to the available lens since you can adapt m-mount to the fuji along with many other lens. But agree if your talking native lenes. Good comparison and I think it was a fair assessment.
I meant native lenses but I should’ve explicitly mentioned it in the video. Thanks for watching ✌🏾
X-Trans is amazing. The Fuji system delivers clarity. However, the biggest limiting factor is the APS-C sensor size. Larger sensors have a more open feel. Try comparing GFX to the Leica M.
About the lens systems. I can use all Leica M mount or LTM glass (with M adapter) and Fujifilm glass on my Fujifilm cameras much easier than going the other way.. Focus peaking works much better on the Fuji cameras since they have an EVF. Just my 2 cents.. I shoot both Leica and Fujifilm and enjoy both.
Great video Gajan
That's a fair point. Thanks for watching!
@@GajanBalan I'm sure sensor size may play a role in how the images look with these lenses...
I'm agreeing with Gajan mostly, but not sure having 1000 50mm options is better than covering an equivalent of 12mm to 600mm...
Still watching but I gotta point out that you can adapt m mount lenses to fuji right? That would make fuji the winner of that point.
Really great video. My main concern about the Leica M series is the undertone assumption that the camera WILL need to be sent back for regular maintenance. At the price, regular servicing should be designed out, so is the legendary Leica reliability only propped up by the willingness of users to accept this further hit to the wallet? This is something generally not heard about the Fuji unless there is a fault.
I think what adds to this is that you could have an incredibly old Leica (except for an M8 and that unique sensor) and still have it serviced whereas that isn't commonplace with Fujifilm.
@@GajanBalan fair comment, but if either of these two cameras was to be the only camera, with which you had to complete all your photography, no second bodies, no other systems? How might you revisit the point of value for money?
It's that small margin of specialty that makes a difference for the creator. Makes perfect sense!! That's why these companies are able to charge so much for their gear. The true professional needs this small margin. Very well spoken and well thought out comparison.
Thanks for watching 🙏🏾
More or less I agree. :) How is M11 black paint finish going? Is that durable as they say? Or is there any sign of wear after some time?
It's quite durable, it had a "bad" scratch when I had one of my tools scrape it while removing the Leica logo, but the it only left a very faint line that's almost imperceptible. Seriously impressed by this coating but lets see what it looks like in a year. Thanks for watching!
@@GajanBalan Awesome, thank you for the reply. Btw, the black badge looks pretty damn good. Congrats. :)
Great lineup. I agree on service and support. Leica sadly lacks a pro-support program (Fuji has FPS), and some repairs require you to send the camera to Germany and some will take months to repair. That definitely needs to be improved. Otherwise Leica is a great camera.
You’re right! I actually completely forgot to mention FPS as well, big differentiator for pros.
Can’t wait for the Nikon Zfc series to gradually come into this comparison over the years once it gets new lenses and updated specs.
Agree on every point. I think to even start to make this kind of comparison people need to actually USE the cameras how they are intended. Only after that do you formulate a true opinion. Everything else is meaningless conjecture until you get out there and do the damn thing.
I agree. It's often easy to spot the people that haven't had the hands-on experience. Thanks for watching brother!
Oh... Alex! :) I am so sorry , Alex, but only M11 owners are allowed to comment here. #StayFrosty
Interesting comparison, definitely both are inspiring cameras to go out shooting with and that's where the similarities stop in my opinion.
I own a Leica Q and several Fuji cameras and customer support for Leica if you go to their store in London, they are amazing.
Off topic. I note you are firing your strobes when using the M11 with a Godox X Pro Fuji model. Does it work OK?
I'm firing my strobe with an EOS R5 using the Godox X Pro fuji. It works except the ttl (which I don't care).
Yep, just using them in manual mode.
Which camera do you pick up, take with you and use? I have the GFX 100s, xPro3, Xt-3 and x100v. In studio I use the GFX hands down but outside the studio I take my x100v. Simple, portable, beautiful, outstanding output....
GFX is for work, largely in the studio. M11 has been my companion where the X100V is at home, or a second camera with the WCL for longer days.
@@GajanBalan which lenses do you use on your M11?
@@bankersbanker7301 primarily it’s the 35mm F2.4 Summarit. I have a 90 F2.4 for unique situations, looking to add a 50 Summilux at some point.
Sounds like Pareto principle or 80-20 rule. Essential 80 percent of results come from 20 percent of effort. To move beyond an 80 percent consequence or result requires increasing (and ultimately) logarithmic effort. I try and apply this thinking in lots of my decision making. Sometimes and in some use cases that increased effort or cost is worth it
Thanks for the comparison video.
I shoot a Leica M10 digital rangefinder with the following lenses:
Leica 21mm f/1.4 Summilux-M
Zeiss 35mm f/1.4 Distagon ZM
Leica 90mm f/2 Summicron
I also shoot a Fuji X-Pro2 digital mirrorless with the following Fujinon lenses:
56mm f/1.2
23mm f/1.4
16mm f/1.4
16-55mm f/2.8
50-140mm f/2.8
If I could select two features from my M10 and add them to my X-Pro2, it would be the rangefinder manual focusing and the ability to produce high quality 24x36mm images with the M-mount lenses I already own.
If I could select two features from my X-Pro2 and add them to my M10, it would be the reasonable price and twin memory card slots.
Excellent, informative, and candid presentation. You made the daunting task of comparing the subject cameras easy! Cheers.
I appreciate that Steve, thank you.
I agree on all point except lens eco system since fuji can use m mount lenses with adaptors and have a bigger acsess to adapted lenses. The fuji also use m lenses really good since those adaptors are small and almost makes the lens looks native..
I hear you, I was solely looking at native options.
I left Fuji after experiencing intermittent shutter release issues with the X-T2 not firing. The battery grip also sometimes would not engage and disconnect electronically from the body eventhough the screw lock was in tight. I loved Fuji starting with the X-E1 and X100S, but felt quality was lacking in their pro bodies due to my experience.
That’s fair. I feel like the QC has been getting better but sometimes it’s just the luck of the draw. Thanks for watching ✌🏾
The first camera I had was the Fuji xt3 then I got the Leica sl2 and the Leica m10r
superb thank you
if fuji would make an Xpro4 Full Frame with the new processor and a 40-60MP sensor, I think they would be closing the gap and in some instances beating the Leica M11 in many ways. And this comes from a Leica Mainly shooter than owns an Xpro3 and X100V. The only issue would be the lack of lenses if they decide to go full frame but since they have opened their mount to third party manufacturers that shouldn't be a problem for long. as long as they have a 23, 50mm and an 24-70 equivalent that's enough for me to get one!
I'm curious, since you own Fujifilm's GFX line of cameras. It will be quite interesting when you compare it with the leica m11
If I had to run the metrics, the GFX would win out but it'll just come back to the end point of the video which is, none of it matters lol.
@@GajanBalan I'm just curious =))), GFX is 5X better than leica M11 =)), I don't care who wins. I just watched your video and I already know that leica wins for sure when compared to xpro3, but the meaning of the video is how far is the difference between the winners and the losers, it makes me curious. You did a great episode.
I use to scoff at Leica and went with the mindset of bigger is better. Not only that, I thought I could achieve the same results with a similar or dslr set up. Silly me because now that I own a Leica m6 it makes me understand the philosophy behind it. Why people shoot with the system.
thanks for great explanation, of course Leica has a very special touch and feeling but it doesnt mean you should be rich to get one, its about your priorities. even an average income like me experienced it and felt I do really want one of these beautiful ones and just got it because simply photography matters to me and its just your personal decision. I still have my Nikon cameras and glasses but to enjoy more I take portraits and landscapes by Leica sometimes just for feeling it.
Sure its not the best but I like it most, so just its your taste.
Art is the gift of making emotions tangible and a form of craft that uses tools to emphasise its subjectivity rather than its efficiency
I want to see a rematch when the x-pro 4 comes out 😬
I totally hear you on the 85% and 95% and understand the non-linear value of the last 10%
My question though is: wasn’t the X-pro 3 the necessary step stone that go you to this 85% plateau and the M11 went the extra valuable mile ?
In other words, had you started with the M-11 would you have got to this level now? I gather you could have plateau-ed just a tiny bit beyond 85% ?
That’s an interesting question. I would have to think about it more, but I think I would have accelerated to that 85 marker faster and moved beyond it, had I started with Leica. Because it would be required.
Zone focusing and relying on my intuition for nearly 3 years on an M system would make for some serious muscle memory that was non-existent using Fujifilm. That’s not a knock though, just a difference.
@@GajanBalan very fair point in such case. I’m coming from a different path having used film Leica Ms for the past 2 years and just stepping into digital to experiment. The x-pro3 setup with OVF and an M lens adaptor is as close as it gets to the M system in such configuration (with manual focus, zone focus and guess-timating exposure without relying on EVF) albeit at a lower cost. Time will tell though…
I am so old film school that I couldn't deal with the buttons or unlimited options on the X100V. Maybe I am dumb but I couldn't predict in my thought process what the camera will give me as a result. I sold it in less than 2 months and bit the bullet for the M11. I prefer the total control over my gear. It is actually a simple camera. It also teaches you to not machine gun every shot and I haven't even set any buttons to my own user preference.
Thank you for this, really.
For now, a simple technical question: on the the subject of connectivity, is this applicable to iPhone users only? .. or would I have to dump my Samsung to benefit from it. (I did make the move from Microsoft to Mac some years ago, and will never return.) However ..
I will respond to the discussion as a whole, again soon. We are very different, workflow/age etc., but embrace the same core values. 👌
□ found you only today as I search for intelligent discussions on Leica cameras and lenses. I own and use a bunch of film Leicas, old and new.
Cheers, Kevin.
Thanks for watching Kevin, and yes there is an Android app as well.
What a great video Gajan - I particularly resonated with the logarithmic scale you mentioned, which is pertinent to so many things in life. I guess you just have to decide where your sweet spot is on that scale and be happy with choosing a camera that satisfies it.
I have never even picked up a Leica, but I just KNOW it will be like no camera I’ve ever used in the past - that’s the superpower those cameras have. Until, and if, I can afford one I will continue to use my Xpro2, until I can afford an Xpro3!
I appreciate that Mark and I wouldn’t be so quick to replace that XP2, it’s still such a great camera!
If you could only have one, would you choose your GFX100s or M11? That's my current dilemma
Fuck that’s tough, haha. I can only speak for myself but I went after the GFX to further my professional career and it led me being able to get an M11. So, it really comes down to whether you follow your head or your heart 😅
Seriously? I am sure the Leica is great but $9K for the Body and another $5K and up for each lens? It is definitely a luxury brand thing. If you can afford it then go for it but for 99.9% of the people out there it is not even an option. I did enjoy your video.
The best part is that his customers wont be able to tell if the pics were taken with a Leica or an iphone😅
@@jaegerschtulmann it definitely can. Ever heard of colorscience? Dynamic range, lowlight performance, raw files that can actually be used
@@jaegerschtulmann wdym phones produce shit photos, none of them take great pics. They’re still large differences with phones and mirrorless/ dslr
@@carlosmcse I really have the x-pro 2 over 4 years now never had any problem. Same for my X-T3. Leica M9 for example had a sensor that corroded 😂 and they did fix it for free, but not for very long. Plus leica had incredible problems with white balance and many other things. Plus the m10 doesn’t even have a video function and it still has the size of a dslr without grip. Leica is fun, but definitely not worth it. The prices should be atleast 30% cheaper retail, to be interesting
@@carlosmcse And i own a m6 and i had the M7 and M9 before I realized leica is fucking overrated. Go enjoy you photo only amazingly build leica. That is it. It is very well build. The best build in the camera world if you ask me, doesn’t change the fact that the image quality and specs are special. Because they are clearly fucking not. Even the color science is fucking overrated.
I shoot Fuji and Leica. Love both for different reasons. Don’t plan on selling any of my bodies as well. Surprised the Xpro3 price has not really dropped. Awaiting the XH2 for pre-order. Great times in the tog world.
On "Community" I tend to agree with you. With Leica being a total manual camera, the push is more about the end product, i.e., the image and its subject{s}. But, as with most of your elements, it is very subjective.
But I did enjoy your subjective analysis and you make some very good points for me.
Thanks for watching 🙏🏾
Even though the Leica is a perfectly good workhorse it is, at the end of the day, an optional luxury item for enthusiasts that want one and can justify and afford the cost.
For fast moving street photography I'd suggest the Fuji X-T4 (or 100V) as that processor is better than the Pro 3 and closer to the Leica. And it's got a tiltable screen which is one big negative for all Leicas - and the reason I sold my SL. It's a great camera but for street photography the Fuji system is just better imo
Those Fuji cameras share the same processor and sensor. And again, better for some people. Depends on how and what you capture.
@@GajanBalan My bad...
Good vid. I wonder if this is it worth it discussion happens in other spaces? Like are there people commenting on vids about Lambos saying a BMW 3 series is just as good and nothing justifies the price? I mean if you want something, have the money, and it's worth it to you then I say go for it. I find most of this whole convo silly honestly.
That’s kinda the point when you watch til the end of the video 🤷🏽♂️
With my first pay packet in 1983 I bought a used Leica M3, still have it still and shoot it most weeks. I've also owned a couple of Digital M's, 8, 9, 240. I was all geared up to get the 11 but firstly, its price has crept up. M10 at launch 10% more then M(240), M11 is 30% at launch more then M10. secondly I don't like that Leica keep the better looking M-P to mid cycle, you end up buying old tech. I'd rather they start with the M-P and then boost sales with a cheaper M11-s version. Now in saying that, of the digital M's, the 11 is the first one with a State of the Art sensor, prior (8,9, where unique and smallest FF at the time). 240 and 10 where a generation behind saved by the glass. Regarding Fuji, they started with 3 distinct primes and added select lenses. I can't help but think they have got themselves into a bit of a mess with the overlapping lens line up. 33,35 50,56 .
Good analysis. You had me agreeing with you all the way up until the end, with your 85% vs. 95%. You gave no real justification for a huge advantage of that critical 10% for Leica other than a simple “want” on your part, really, IMHO. 5X cost is nuts. To me this looks like this video was your way of justifying the purchase in your mind. However, I’m sure there are advantages with clients for your line of work.
So, more power to you, and enjoy your new Leica. 😊
I go back and forth between using my Leica TL2 and the Xpro 3. As far as these 2 models go, it's really apples and oranges. But as a whole, I can see the differences between the two. The Fuji has a TON of features built in and it's incredibly impressive the depth that they allow you to alter pretty much anything and everything in the photo processing. The OVF is a really nice touch and the handling is great, as well. The lenses are a great bargain for the prices...weather sealed, fast AF, compact in size, and nice optics. Where it starts to lose me is in the details. You can see certain places where they cut some corners (door flaps feel kind of cheap and aren't that solid, buttons are clicky, etc). The Leica is solid as a tank. It's not heavy, it's just dense from being a solid block of machined and hand polished aluminum. It's about as simple as it gets...a couple of thumb wheels, a shutter button with a power on/off switch, and the rest is large touch screen. The optics give a certain look to them that my fuji camera and lenses just don't have. There's a certain realness and pop to the subject in the photos, whereas the Fuji is sharp, but the subjects tend to feel flat and blend in with everything else (I don't blame all Fuji lenses, just the ones I've used can't compare to the Leica lenses). The trade off on the Leica is obviously the $$$. I was fortunate enough to get the TL2 when Leica discontinued the system and could get the TL2 brand new for less than a new Fuji camera body. The lenses also are 2x-3x the price of the Fuji's, so they SHOULD be better with all things considered and they also don't have weather sealing on the lenses I have. Also, you get lumped into being a doctor, lawyer, or Hollywood celebrity with too much money to burn.....
I've always been in the camp of you get what you pay for, to a certain extent. There's a certain look and feel to the Leica photos, but it's really up to the user to decide if the price on that equipment is really that important to you when compared to others, like Fuji. Pretty much every camera in 2023 is capable of taking some truly incredible photos. Even more importantly, it's the hands and the eyes behind the camera, not the camera itself. I've seen jaw dropping photos from people using a Kodak disposable, and I've seen...questionable...photos from people using the highest priced Hasselblads. The person behind the camera is infinitely more important than the camera itself and you just have to know well the tools you're working with.
I wanted to add in that I use both of my cameras for different purposes. I ride a motorcycle very often and the TL2 is absolutely awesome because of the big live view screen on it, I can take photos of the bike or the location all while not having to take my helmet off to do it. It would be impossible with the Xpro3. The Xpro3 has the OVF and has infinitely better AF than the TL2. It's really that much of a difference in AF speeds that it's not even a comparison. When I don't feel like shooting manual mode and want to MAKE SURE I get the object that's moving, it's the Xpro3 all day. I won't even risk it with the TL2.
Great video---with one exception: saying that the Leica lens ecosystem is close, much less equal to or better than Fuji, is laughable. If you are strictly considering native lenses, it would be different (as well as unfair/biased), but one of the great features of the X mount is that you not only have the good (albeit limited selection) native lenses, but can get lens adapters for many other brands, _including_ Leica M. And some Leica lenses (like Summilux) will actually perform _better_ on the Fuji than on a Leica, due to the crop factor. And you can even get adapters that support auto focus for the Fuji to use Nikon and Canon EF lenses. (That is in addition to the literally hundreds or possibly thousands of other lenses that you can choose from with manual focus.) So the lens category is really no contest.
I am strictly considering native lenses so, yea it’s not close. Thanks for watching 🙏🏾
I have to differ on how you gave a point to the Leica on lenses.
On B&H there are 150 lenses listed for M mount.
The same site shows 259 for X-mount. Sure there are decades of vintage lenses you can get. Bu the Xpro can easily mount a lot of vintage glass with an adapter. I use M42 speedboosters for my collection of Takumars and Helios with a Meyer-Optik Görlitz as well.
Even with new lenses from Light Lens Labs and TTartisan that falls short of what you can get for an Xpro. And those X mount lenses are ALL multicoated, with no mold, separation or oily iris blades.
I do have to agree on the Fuji app.
A while back I was covering a protest event at Washington Square Park, and I was trying to upload to a website in a timely fashion.
No dice. I spent 30 minutes then finally had to catch the train home to use my computer.
Ended up missing out on a fun group dinner because of that!
Amazing close headshots in move... exif??
Shouldn't the X-Pro3 win in ecosystem since m-mount(among other mounts) adapters exist making the entire m mount ecosystem available to it in addition to the autofocus lenses that the Leica would never have the option to use?
That’s not how I weighted the category. I’m looking at native lens options.
Back in the days of film I was heavy into R's and M's. Not so much for the body's (quite frankly I had more mechanical problems with the R's than I ever had with Canon and Nikon). But, the glass... Man, that glass was something else. Jump forward to digital... I can't do it. With PS and other post processing it's totally subjective. Maybe if I had WAY deeper pockets than I do I could justify it, but, with retirement looming it simply isn't worth the small gains (again subjective) "to me".
Fair and well said. Thanks for watching ✌🏾
Some of your categories are not all that important to me (e.g. Community), but in the ones that are important, my only disagreement is in the lens ecosystem. Fujifilm offers a very broad range of lenses ranging from a 10-24mm up to a 150-600mm zoom and covers all of the spaces in between those lenses. Leica M mount has hundreds of lens available to it, but in a much narrower range of focal lengths and types. Realistically do we need the 20 or 30 or maybe even 40 models of 50mm lenses available in M mount? The M-Mount has a broad variety of lenses squished into a very narrow band of focal lengths and types. Another point to consider is if I wanted to switch between camera types, the X mount covers rangefinder, SLR style and DSLR style bodies, while the M mount only has a rangefinder option.
One last point, I can put an adapter on my X-Pro3 and use any M mount lens I want. I think you missed the boat on the lens ecosystem category.
I hear what you’re saying but I cant say I agree. Fuji customers are not largely buying Fuji cameras and then investing in M glass. The ecosystem argument only considered native offerings since that’s what most consumers consider. And while you may not care for all the variation of lenses, there’s a user benefit to choice and options. Appreciate you sharing your thoughts though ✌🏾
@@GajanBalan Thanks for the reply. A few thoughts. I know of at least a couple of guys who put old Leica glass on their Fujifilm camera bodies. I think it's more common than you realize. The Fujifilm M-mount adapter is very usable and with a push of a button it will bring up the menu choice for the assignment of a manual lens focal length. This then adjusts the frame lines in the OVF for the focal length in use, or optionally we switch to the EVF. I've used Voigtlander M-mount lenses on my X-Pro1 with this adapter and it worked seamlessly. I've also used five different brands of old 35mm MF film lenses on my X camera bodies.
That said, having a couple of dozen versions of a 50mm lens doesn't represent choice in my book. The range of X mount lenses far exceeds the range of M mount lenses. Now third party AF lenses are becoming available for X mount and that will spread the range even further. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
Which Godox flash trigger is compatible with the Leica?
None unfortunately. This is the Fujifilm transmitter in manual mode.
@@GajanBalan does it allow high sync shooting I use my Olympus trigger on my X100V
Hi Gajan. Excellent and thanks for this. You’re dead right about the ‘whatever works for you is the most important thing’ sentiment. I must say though, this video does feel a little bit like you’re trying to justify the price of Leica to yourself as much as anything. LOL. But hey, if you can afford it and it works for you, then cool. For me, I love the X-Pro’s combination of assets. And in particular the hydrid viewfinder, which is not perfect and could deffo be better, but is great for me. In a way, the X-Pro cameras take from Leica (and others). Leica is their inspiration. But I think fujifilm have tried to be progressive in a modern market whereas Leica have stuck to their guns. As a professional who works in the way I work, the X-Pro does just about everything I need (I’d like to see improvements though). I’m looking at their medium format option for some projects I’m working on. (And even the GF100s plus a couple of lenses comes in cheaper than a M11 and a single lens.) Even though I respect Leica hugely and appreciate the quality of products and ideals, I can’t justify or pay the prices. So for the foreseeable, I won’t be going there. In a way, the Leica M and the X-Pro cameras are coming from the same place. They are cameras for pure photographers who work in a certain way. It’s difficult for many people to understand this idea and just think it’s a load of bollocks (old English term). So if they don’t get it, there’s no point in trying to get them to understand. Just do what you do and love it. Thanks
Respectfully, this just sounds like a little projection. While I'll happily talk about why I've invested in Leica in a future video, there's no value in my justifying any of my purchases through this medium. It's a waste of my time and my viewers time. Besides, the end of this video is me saying how none of these metrics matter, haha.
Think I would say the same about the 85/95, had the x-pro 3 before and it’s a great camera! But changed to the M10, and I really think it’s a big/small difference. The last ten points is worth everything. It’s like a world record, you can jump 30cm higher next year, but you reach a point where every cm is worth hours and hours of hard training, it’s like this, all the small details is worth so much more when it comes to a great camera and a greater camera.
And that thing about ‘leave the camera to a random person at a party’ and define that in a usability point, i think that’s unfare 😅 you don’t buy a camera for either 2k or 9k $ and give points to how easy it is for a non photographer to take a photo. If you buy that camera it’s for you, and how’s the usability is for you. And even in that case the x-pro may win, but if you consider the minimalistic and simplicity of the m11 (m10 in my case) there is a much easier camera to use, for a photographer. Just how easy it is to find the things you want in the Leica menu because of the very less options, that’s a BIG thing. :)
I mean, you bring a convincing argument to usability and like I mentioned, over time one may be easier to use than the other but... I gotta stick with where I landed, haha. One is just easier to use than the other. And that's not a bad thing to be honest! Thanks for watching.
@@GajanBalan I understand your argument, and in some way it’s fare. Like if the viewer want to buy a camera, and don’t know that much about photography, the x-pro 3 for sure is the easier alternative :)
I also understand the hard task comparing these two cameras. They have so much in common, and are totally different at the same time! Overall I think it was a great vid, but for the usability, I would think in a longer term of use 😁
i’m thinking of doing the same how do you feel about the low light performance of the xpro 3 vs the m10 and the experiences with both
@@alucard19 I won’t lie to you. I really like the high-ISO feel from Fujis X-trans sensor. But I think the Leica M is more clean at
@@Gj_frames thanks for the advice definitely looking forward to getting an m10 myswlf
Not sure what you mean by community. No examples offered to make it clear. My first thought was that Fuji pioneered firmware updates that were not just bug fixes, but added functionality. Leica's sometimes my way or the highway attitude is the opposite of commmunity in my opinion.. Your final argument for the specific need of the photographer is the most persuasive.
Thought there was a grip for the M11.
Did Fuji ever address your concerns with your xpro3?
What's funny is that I cut that piece out of this video. I had a 5 minute segment updating the situation but cut it out to streamline this video. I'm going to update the comment of that video with what happened but in short, they went above and beyond and took care of the issue as far as I can tell.
Thanks for that reply. I was going to get an XPro3 but was scared off by your experience and then finding many more folks with similar problems. Eager to hear the resolution of this disappointing scenario.
Bro design should have been a point a piece dog, I mean come on dog lol. Also the community thing was a little odd. Speaking to more people seems that it would encourage more people to love and enter into photography. Love the Chanel man. Keep it up
Hahaha, I knew some people would disagree but as hard as it was for me to admit, the M11 just looks so much cleaner! And that's an interesting take on community. I think I'm more critical here because of my experience in marketing and consulting. The Fujifilm approach, while great in variety and execution, doesn't land with the same authenticity as Leica in my eyes. It's tough to pull off.