Oh, interesting. My time with the Q3 was also much more relaxed and error-free. So, it seems they can get everything under control with a bit more time.
Agreed very rare, kind of like the small group of people willing to speak out about Teslas issues. Really wanted to pick up an M camera. But not the M11 or M11-P. At least until Leica publicly guarantees they have solved all the freezing issues.
Yes thank you, I would have a 10k nightmare if it wasn’t for your video. Beginning to wonder if Leica m11 and q3 models have faulty boards. Should not take years to solve this issue if it’s software. Fuji has a real chance to kill Leica with an x-pro 4 with the 40mp sensor.
5 месяцев назад+1
@@streetphotojournalism Acc. to other comments, those freezing issues are fixed already. But still, for that money, we should expect perfection. You can buy so much with that money - imagine a car for 10k with such issues... 🙄
No it’s not fixed, many have done the updates and are still experiencing freezing issues. I went to a Leica shop and looked at a brand new M-11p and it froze while testing. This is insanity at 10k for a body that freezes with no fix in sight. Other brands that are half, to one third of the price are not freezing. Imagine asking your client hold on and give me a minute so you can pop your battery out and restart your 10k camera 😂
That's really good! I also wished that my M11 would have worked. Version 1.6 helped many, but unfortunately not everyone. The people at the repair center also mentioned that only specific setting configurations are affected, but they don't know why. So, it seems like you've chosen the right settings. :D
5 месяцев назад+1
They should have fixed the issue prior to release. I don't want to be the test bunny when I buy such expensive gear....
Thank you for your video. I am in the market for a new camera and was ready to pull the trigger on an M11. This is just my opinion, but Leica, as a premium brand, with premium prices has an obligation to make its customers happy and whole, with few to no questions asked. If I were Leica, I would be smooching the backside of any customer who had the experiences you have had. They should have sent you a replacement camera a long time ago with their apologies. If we spend that kind of money with them, we deserve that kind of customer service. This is what a premium brand should do: It reminds me, a few years back, I bought a BMW and the “engine malfunction” light kept coming on. I brought it back over and over again. Finally I told them I was done with it. The service manager approached me and said this was a known issue with this model, and the new model no longer had that problem. He then asked if I would ever consider owning another BMW. I said yes. He then offered to purchase my car back at higher than market price and sell me a brand new model at cost. I accepted. The next day, they called to say they made a mistake. (I thought ok, this is where they are going to stick it to me). Instead, they said my car had an extended service warranty that added value to my old car, and wrote me a check for that amount. So on top of everything they had done to make me whole, they sweetened the pot even more. Again, my opinion, but Leica has a similar obligation and should reach out to any customer who has the problems you experienced.
You're right, a camera brand like Leica should not expose itself and clearly not exchange obviously faulty cameras. They have lost me forever now. Just like with your BMW, I would have actually expected that. Especially since the customer service was aware that there seem to be cameras that don't perform well and others that run without any issues. So, it would have been best to simply exchange the camera and be done with it. The camera even had more problems in the end after I had it repaired. This should not be the case.
Very nice video! The camera that ultimately cured me of Gear Acquisition Syndrome was a surprise to me; it was the wonderful Canon 5D (Mark 1). It might be old and very basic but it's such a tactile joy to use that nothing else really matters. It's very heavy and the shutter sounds like gunfire but the sensor is sensational and is the main reason why I haven't put it down in 6 months. If you haven't tried one already, I highly recommend it.
Thank you! The good old 5D Mark 1 has experienced a significant revival lately. Somehow, many people are talking about it, and the images from the camera look really fantastic! The camera would have cured my GAS since theoretically, nothing significant would have aged in the camera. One wouldn't have to worry about autofocus or other technical matters anymore. The sensor would have been sufficient for professional work for decades!
It makes some really nice files. I still have mine, and I looked at some old files the other day, they look amazing. I made an large exhibition with it a book and a lot of work back in the days. I have a landscape print hanging, it's 200 x 80 cm and looks really great. Canon did something right with that model.
ALL of the Canon 5- or 1- series bodies are superb. None are ‘obsolete’ if you just want to shoot stills. You can shoot anything with them, they are dirt cheap used, the lens selection covers everything you could possibly ever need, and the files are beautiful.
5 месяцев назад
Shooting with 5D MkII for more than 15 years. No issues whatsoever - I don't need super fast auto focussing , like wildlife photographers - but the image quality etc. are still fantastic. I see only limitations in astro photography (noise performance), wildlife (focussing) and maybe if you need to save some weight - but apart from these points, I don't need anything new, yet. But wouldn't go back to 5D MkI, because of the absence of liveview - I use that feature all the time. Funny also the debate regarding sensor size and megapixels... 21 MP on FF were already controversial in 2010 or so. The lenses just are not good enough to bring more details on a 40 MP sensor of the same size. I think they just increase the file size on our hard drives and who on earth needs 40 MP or more anyway?? (Get a decent composition and don't crop! And 21 MP are enough to print any size)
Hi, not surprised ... I have given up on digital Leicas as well. I have been part of the Beta Testing group for several digital Leicas in the past and the numbers testing and the time involved is really not enough to highlight the possible firmware glitches. I think the main problem is porting code from previous models on the assumption most of it will be ok and just bits needing re-writing. Issues like the failure to carry over previous settings and file numbering (which goes right back till the M9 successors) tends to support this. Previous software was written by Jenoptik but I think it's all now in-house and the team must be small compared with the likes of Fuji/Nikon/Canon etc. Leica take ages to release new fixes .... Fuji by contrast do it in days or weeks at the most and everything just works flawlessly. Basically Leica rely on the customer to beta test the new camera and often the issues are hardly fixed by the time a new model with new problems is due ....
thank you for sharing the information with me. That would at least explain a lot about why even with a top camera like the M11, the software is so incredibly mediocre. It's also clear that Leica doesn't have the manpower to quickly fix firmware errors, but allowing customers to play the role of beta testers is really not acceptable.
Sorry to hear about the experiences with the M11. I was wanting to purchase one as a "big purchase" to keep for years and use as a single camera to take with me on life's adventures. I just can't justify the price for the amount of issues I've seen revolving around the M11. An $600 USD Pentax K-70 will work flawlessly out of the box without issue. There's absolutely zero reason why a $9000 M11 shouldn't be flawless, as well. At this point, I'll continue to use my Leica TL2 and either pick up a M10, or I'll wait for the M12 to see what Leica decides to do in the quality department.
Exactly! Just as the seller who sold me the M11 said. Regardless of whether it's a $100 camera or a $9000 one, such errors should not occur at any price. Unfortunately, I've received many comments from almost every version of the M, reporting freezes. Unfortunately, you can also have bad luck with the M10.
Had a same plan lately - sell all my Nikon and Fuji gear to get M11 + two decent Voigtlanders. I am really hesitating with this step now, especially when I see how incredibly well my X-Pro3 performs. Leica was always pictured as a pure perfection and I would be OK to pay for the sake of perfection but these flaws seem really be annoying and it seems that last perfection were film Leicas... So far I only knew about longer startup time (ca. 2 seconds) but the issues reported in this video are quiet serious - imagine that freezing happens in a wedding when the couple have first kiss, or when they are putting on the rings, resulting in missed important pictures of the wedding.
I was in Munich at Calumet this weekend, and the employee there also mentioned that he has seen more faulty M11s than functioning ones. So, you're really lucky if yours actually works without any problems.
Having owned 9 Leica cameras so far, I can say it is the LESS RELIABLE brand and the absolute WORSE CUSTOMER SERVICE EVER!! - Leica M9-P and MM1: cracked sensor. - Leica S2: corroded sensor. - Leica S007: video card failure on the first shoot. It took 6 months to Leica to fix it and it is only after a long ranting post on GetDPI and LFI that they fixed it. Leica doesn’t like to be trash talked… All bought new, of course. The Q1 and M246 have been quite reliable though and I still love my M6 Titanium and my M5 with modified lugs. I have never had ANY problems with my Nikon D3X, Canon 5DmkIV, Nikon Zfc or Zf (FANTASTIC CAMERA!!!) My personal experience here.
Oh, I didn't expect that. Maybe the customer service has improved as well. What happened with yours, though, is really unacceptable. It fits the picture I have from Leica through the M11-that they are unfortunately too small to produce a fully refined camera. However, I also think it’s often a matter of luck whether a camera breaks down or not, as all manufacturers can make mistakes.
My M11 also occasionally freezes but it's not too bad. What I have an issue with is their Fotos app, it's rage inducing. It's so flaky that 90% of the time I can't get the photos transferred, it takes hours of pairing and unpairing, uninstalling and re-installing the app to get some photos transferred then I'll leave it a few weeks and have to do it all again. It's mad. The shine of Leica has definitely taken a nose dive, the M11 also feels less analogue than previous M cameras which further removes my desire to get another in future. I had a Fuji X-E3 and loved it other than it felt too much like a computer (why I went with the M11). If Fuji could please just make a stripped back M like camera similar to the Pixii, I'd be on that like a tramp on chips. I know Leica struggle and I would hate for them to disappear but honestly, they need to realise software engineering is equally important as hardware engineering these days. They need top end software engineers to come in and do their firmware and software, if they can do that they might win me back but I reckon the M11 might be my last Leica. :( I'll keep my M6 and 50mm cron though as it's proper Leica and amazing to use.
I can understand your thoughts completely, as I once had an X-E3. It's a great camera in itself, but when you have an M6 beside it, you realize how a camera should be. The Pixii sounds really good, but personally, I'm afraid that the engineer building the camera could disappear from one day to the next, leaving you alone with the rangefinder calibration. The thing with the Photos app sounds very annoying. Normally, everyone says it's quite good... probably until you use it frequently. I'll stick with the M6 now and definitely won't be buying another digital M, which is a shame.
The most useful contribution on RUclips .Shot Leica for thirty years .Still have my M4 and digitally have an SL2s (heavy and the AF isn`t good when stuff starts moving ) a 246 and a CL. The most used is the CL .I was thinking of hacking in my SL2s for either a Q 2/3 of maybe M10 mono (don`t know why because I`m happy with the 246).The M11 was briefly a consideration but after reading the comments it isn`t any longer . Maybe the Q3 .... I`m to old to be lugging that SL2s around. Anyway thankyou for adding some useful and practical perspective .
Thank you for the kind words. The SL2 is indeed a heavy beast; I tested it in Wetzlar for a while. So, I can understand well why you want to exchange it for something lighter. I find it unfortunate that they discontinued the CL series; I always quite liked it. You can try out the M11 sometime. Mine was a worst case, but there are some that function flawlessly. However, it's always a gamble whether you get a flawless one.
The funny thing is that the M8 is the second mirrorless camera to ever hit the market. So, they should have enough experience to prevent something like this from happening... and the price leaves quite a bitter taste.
Thanks for confirming my suspicions and saving me the hassle. I will stick to my MP240 and M246 - they are still doing a very good job alongside my M7 and Q2. also, as someone says here it's the Leica lenses that make the diff.
You're welcome. It seems that the M240 cameras are still the most reliable M cameras. At least, no one has complained about these models yet. :D Leica lenses make the difference, but if you need a modern camera, you probably shouldn't be looking for one from Leica.
Both my M240’s used to occasionally freeze. My current M10 has been flawless. My Q2 freezes occasionally, SL2 has been perfect. Your video details all the current hesitation with M11, thank you. I wish Leica would get their act together and spend $ on QC instead of marketing and influencers.
Leica engineers are worthless…..they only pay the Designers to do nice Leica body design….but the technology is like a 💩 head doing a job….I’m a Leica M6 user…until now I’m reluctant to buy the digital Leica….the Fujifilm XT5 and Nikon ZF are way better 😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉
I believe the many engineers working there are not as much to blame as the company bosses who want to save money on software engineers. They probably need a lot more employees to ensure that the cameras function properly. In any case, the XT-5 and ZF are definitely the better all-around cameras.
Sorry to see that your Leica M11 experience was so negative. Mine has been close to perfect for the year I have owned my M11. Only one freeze so far, and I shoot it every day. I think much of what you experienced is due to either user misunderstanding of some setup issues, and expectations about how you wanted to use the camera. It is not a point and shoot, nor is it a Q3. I pretty much never use the auto functions (except Auto ISO), so have never experiences many of your problems. If you set the shutter speed that is exactly what you will get every shot, just like aperture. If you rely on Auto ISO, and Auto Shutter Speed, the camera will try to optimize both. So I can see the SS being a bit less precise. I get consistent exposures all of the time. I can adjust to special needs by using EX Comp, and Metering Modes which are set to the same dial. I have dealt with the touch focus issue (which I also hated) through a co-ordinated setting combination of Screen/Focus Assist/EVF Extended options. It works just the way I want now, and properly coordinates itself with or without the EVF attached. In some circumstances I do wish for a faster frame rate when zooming like you. I think this is likely hardware, not software issue however. It is better that my M10-P ws in this regard. The light to watch when charging with USB is the green LED on the bottom of the camera. Not the red one on the back. The camera must be switched on. The green one pulses while charging, and stays solid when fully charged. No need to look at the menu. I have no opinions on the Icons used. So, for me this is my every day camera, and I absolutely love it. I am on the latest firmware. Thanks for posting this video, It is well done, and I respect the way you expressed your frustrations even if they don't aligh with my experience. Steve
Good to hear that your M11 has fewer issues. I had hoped for the same. The AE problems actually only started after the repair in Wetzlar. They must have adjusted something incorrectly there because everything was running normally before, except for the occasional startup overexposure. Of course, the M11 is not a Q3, but when Leica incorporates features, they should work, especially since they managed it decades ago. It's great that you found a way to make your touchscreen work the way you want it to. It would be cool if we could assign a function to the FN button for toggling on and off or one of the quick menu tiles. The zoom can surely be sped up with an update since the preliminary stage of it runs faster. Do I need to turn on the camera for the green LED to work? Well, they should just do it like they did with the Q3, where it works as expected. Thanks for your detailed comment. I think it's normal that our experiences differ since I probably had one of the more defective cameras, it seems.
. @TheBigNegative I guess that I don't really have an expected way things should work. I approach it from learning the way the camera works and optimizing for that. I do agree that if a feature is included in a camera it should work reliably. I will have to experiment with the auto functions more to se if I find problems with them too. For now the manual aperture/shutter speed combined with the "M" ISO properly configured gives me very accurate exposures every time. If you assign a Menu Function to one of the customized buttons, and that function is also chosen to be included in the Quick Menu Tiles, then it's state is accurately reflected in the Quick Menu when you toggle the button. So, I think that is correct behavior. Yes, you must turn the camera on to charge by USB. That also enables the Green LED which correctly communicates the charge status. When it stops pulsing just turn the camera off. You are fully charged. No need to check the Menu. Very convenient and easy. I really never need to open the battery compartment. Just charge and download files at the same time. Great for travel. All I have to bring is the correct USB-C cord that I would bring to charge my phone anyway. I love that feature. I agree that some of the interconnected ways things work when configuring a camera are many times not intuitive. I find this true of all cameras. The Leica M being better than most. The Sony A1 being one of the most complicated. But I have to say, once understood and programmed the way I want it, the A1 feels like the camera has been custom built just for me. I think the old adage "with great power comes great complexity" is very true with today's cameras. Steve
I didn't mean touch focus like with an AF camera. I meant the touch screen feature on the M11 where it sets the point that the camera zooms to with the focus assist features.
Sounds strange, but that can also be part of the problem that the M11 doesn't recognize a Leica lens. lol I think my M11 is unfixable; I hope they send it back to Wetzlar and see what went wrong, as my M11 probably combines all the errors one can have.
I can only say that you have to try it out. There are also plenty that work well, as I found out. Just not mine. That's why always buy with a warranty when it comes to used M11s.
It's a pity you've had so many issues with your Leica. On the other hand: You're not alone. Since I've changed from my SL2-S (had several issues, also with over-exposure as you explained here) to Panasonic Lumix S1R, I am back there where I was the past 15 years with Olympus....reliable gear, no issues, no freezes, no problems at all! I can still use my lenses I purchased for my SL2-S because of the L-Mount-System. For me, Leica is history!
It seems like no Leica is truly free from freezes or other strange bugs. So, I can understand why you've completely moved away from Leica and Panasonic. I also have the feeling that Leica is the company with the most freezes.
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel I didn't move away from Panasonic but from Leica to Panasonic. If Leica would have the reliability of their competitors, it would be my brand of choice. Have fun taking pictures!
Hi Dirk, I’v also had numerous « freeze » moments with my SL2-S. Sent the camera to Wetzlar, it came back with the usual « can’t duplicate the problem » statement. Since then I have experienced the freeze moment at least once during every photo shoot (I do portraits). It seems to happen when I work tethered to CaptureOne; and by the way, the USB-C port of the camera is a laugh : designed by an intern, as an afterthought. SL3? No way! Hadn’t thought of the LUMIX way, but it sounds like a good idea.
I don't get how a 10 000 dollar camera can have all those flaws. They seem to be firmware/software related, but still....I thought they were adamant on quality etc.
The camera has so many flaws because Leica simply thinks they can get away with it and that it affects so few cameras that it doesn't matter. Unfortunately, they have lost me as a customer forever because of this.
Oh, lol, they have enough of their own problems. I'll just say Nikon Z8. I just find that it's simply not as good when it costs easily double or triple compared to comparable products. 🤷♂️
My M11 was a worst-case scenario. If you're interested, you can try one out; there are also many that work normally, but it's always a gamble whether the M11 will function flawlessly.
(7:28) "Das kann nicht sein" 🤣🤣🤣 Fun aside, those are the reasons I never purchased Leica; simply, it's overpriced. So I'll stick to my Fuji gear and Oly OM gear for 35mm film photography. Gruß
Yeah, my wife said that because it happened right in the middle of a job. I had to disassemble the camera from a set panorama tripod head and reconfigure it. For the flaws the M11 exhibits, it's definitely overpriced!
I think Leica is loosing its swing. I mean they cost more and more, but the quality is decreasing...I shoot Leica, but I recognize that the cameras are not like the old ones...I am thinking to buy back some goldies...
Great review and video. I was wondering if you can recommend a good 35mm lens for Leica M11 (non Leica lens as I am on a limited budget). I've heard good things on Voigtlander. Have you tried it before? Thanks.
I only have Voigtländer lenses for M, but they are rather hit and miss. For the M11, I would say that only the 35mm f2 Ultron is really good because it is simply the sharpest. The 35mm 1.4 Nokton that I have and the new 35mm 1.5 Nokton that I once had are not sharp enough to fully utilize the 60MP, and you can see even at 36MP that it's not enough at wide aperture.
Even without the issues with this model, it’s a camera (and brand) that makes no sense to me. These cameras seem like they have less features for more money and I don’t get why. This camera should be cheaper than most modern cameras imo. Leica fans, would you feel different about this camera if it was 1500 USD instead of 8000 (or whatever it is)? Like would it be a better camera for you or would it loose some of its special’ness? I’m legitimately wondering why people pay so much for cameras that has less potential.
Hey, I think I can explain this well. Manufacturers like Sony, Canon, or Nikon produce millions of cameras. This also means that the development costs of the cameras can be spread across the number of units produced. That's why the best models from these manufacturers are more expensive, because not everyone needs all the features, and therefore, the production cost per camera is higher. The same applies to Leica. Since only a few people will buy an M11, each individual camera has to be more expensive, regardless of the features it has or doesn't have. Additionally, the cost of assembling the camera here in Germany adds to the price. Because the M11 has fewer features, fewer features become obsolete over time. Don't need the latest autofocus? No problem, it wasn't included anyway! :D Working with a rangefinder may be a preference; some like it, and some don't. If you don't like it, I can certainly understand because it can sometimes be challenging. But once you've mastered it, it's a great feeling, and every camera with autofocus feels like cheating! :D
It's not the expense. It's the feel, which comes at a price. Leica's are expensive because they're basically handmade. The cost of time and labor adds up. Hold a Leica and hold an X100v it's a world of difference. I own and love both but nothing compares to the feel of a Leica. But if someone is having issues like these, that is inexcusable at this price point. (Fwiw, I have an M10-P and had zero issues with it.)
The idealogy of a digital M still doesn't make sense to me, the M cameras were designed as perfectly nice film cameras, and digital Ms just don't have the soul in them. It's like those vintage cars converted to electric, I just can't see the reason especially with their high price tags. Back in the days Leica Ms were designed to be field tools, function over form. That's why it's so iconic despite being so simply designed. But if you just swap the function without touching the form, it's missing the point isn't it. And the thing is, it's not like film cameras are extinct, in fact they are getting attractions, so the reason for getting a M11 with 3x the price as a mint condition M6 just, baffles me. Sorry I seemed harsh on this topic that I shouldn't have strong opinions on.
The same thing happened to me with my Leica M10-R Black Paint camera. It stops suddenly and I have to take out the battery and put it back again, which is very annoying. I am surprised how an ancient company like Leica allows such problems to occur in its products without finding a solution to them?!
Oh man, even the M10-R? I thought Leica would have fixed the camera after all these years. It was certainly even more annoying since the camera still had a baseplate that you had to remove first. It seems like not enough people are affected for it to be worth finding a solution.
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel frankly, for me, my Leica M10-R did not freeze much . I contacted their branch in Dubai, and they advised me to remove the memory card and reformat it via the computer. I did that, and thank God the problem ended. They also advised me that after I removed the memory card from one camera and used it in another camera, I should reformat it again. I followed their recommendations, and thank God my problem ended.
At last a truthful report! A friend had the Monochom with the rust dots! 11 months to fix. I finally made my pal allow me to shoot The MF'er.. Rust seemed gone.. The Zeiss 35mm lens had flare problems. Worse than my almost 60 years old Summicron 50mm! My advice was SELL! He did. Lockup in a wedding, crap exposures simply unacceptable. The price!! It is a failure. It cannot only be yours! Side note back in '67 my M3 was delivered. End of run! It arrived without a RFDR! I kid you not. A week wait while it was finally assembled! I should have received another! So much for QC then or now! Oh! 9 months latter I received a letter from Leitz! It stated some customers are too fussy! NO FLUFFING RNGFDR! Geez. I still us my M3! Digital is different! It is a lemon.
Oh man, I would have thought that camera quality control was taken more seriously in the past. I'm really starting to wonder how Leica even managed to achieve their high status if they had so many problems for so long. An M3 without a rangefinder is truly the pinnacle of it all.
i am havinga loaner M11 because my M10R is at repair for chronically underexposing (second repair after a broken mount this year) . So far , m11 has been behaving nicely , no freeze so far
Then, I hope that you get your M10 R back in working condition soon. I was in Munich at Calumet this weekend, and the employee there also mentioned that he has seen more faulty M11s than functioning ones. So, it might just be a matter of time until the camera freezes.
"Mid-life crisis object of desire" - I am going through the same, bro. But gosh, way too many bugs for a $10k camera. Not buying it. Thanks for the video.
Well, fortunately my m10 does not freeze or have any other blockers of me taking photos. Im wedding photographer and so far the only "problem" over other current cameras is the manual focusing. Sometimes i wonder if it's worth it to put so much more effort to get the photo, range finders are not the best for shooting moving subjects especially in low light places where zone focusing is out of the question and you are forced to shoot at 1.4 2 and 6400, 12800 iso. But you know what, when i come back and look at the photos, yes its worth it. I shoot sony a73 with 35gm along side my m10 with lux 50. I just cant stand the photos from Sony anymore, have been very reliable system and 100 times easier to use especially for weddings over the last 2 years, shot canon R before that, nikon dslr and fuji X before. Its already too long but bottom line is, Leica is hate love relationship. But the results are worth it in my experience. Also i personally feel so satisfied shooting with the leica, its like playing a game and finishing it on the hardest mode against finishing on the easiest, the satisfaction and joy is 10x.
"Love-hate relationship" describes pretty accurately what one has with Leica. The amazing pictures taken with the M feel like success. Pictures from a Sony/Fuji/Canon almost feel like cheating. :D So, I can completely relate with you.
I have a M10-R and have encountered some strange software bugs. It mostly occurred during the first year of ownership. Lately, it has been pretty stable. But, I agree, this is a huge stain for such a premium brand. This should be a top priority for them.
In English, the translation of your sentence would be: "Then I hope for you that your M10-R doesn't start acting up again. I don't think the priority is as high since not many cameras are affected as badly as mine.
M10R Black Paint edition is the best digital Leica M. I’ve been using it for 2 years. Never updated it. I think it has 1 update for the Steel Rim profile.. And the camera has been perfect.
@owinthomas9678 unfortunately where I live there is no such thing as camera insurance. I even went to an insurance agent and he never got back to me. But I take care of it. Value doesnt bother me because I will own it forever. I don't care about camera bodies anymore.
I was wondering the following: Why is Leica not using more from Panasonic? While we don't know where the inerts of the camera actually come from, there is a large chance that it is made by Panasonic. Why make the good Panasonic software crappy?
Good question. The little Leica D-Lux is also just a rebranded Panasonic camera. It would be better for Leica if they did that. I think they collaborate on focus algorithms. The Leica Q3 has a fantastic eye autofocus that is definitely not from Leica. I believe the issue lies in the hardware assembly of the Leica M11, which was not adequately tested.
I see video after video complaining about the software, slow frame rate, slow to turn on, slow image processing... So it begs the question how can they justify the premium price? It's to bad because if they addressed the issues I would most likely be in line to pick one up.
For what is offered, the price is more than overpriced. However, they cater to a niche of people with money. There are also M11 models that don't have as many issues, but still, the software is mediocre. It seems like one has to wait for years until the software is matured.
I can relate to that. I've sold more than 10 cameras, including an M3, because it was so much fun to shoot with the M11. Well, now I have 10 cameras less and no M11.
When you pay so much money for a product, you should expect nothing less than perfection. No excuses, no slack cut. My 2 cents as a programmer for the software issues, is that it is not surprising to hear, since software nowadays is terrible and it has been actually declining, not improving for a long long time.
Yeah, the software has to become more complex with more features, but the quality keeps declining from generation to generation at Leica. In Germany, there aren't enough good software engineers that Leica could hire to fix the problem.
The software is abysmal. Not to mention my first M11 had to be replaced as did my friends (twice). As for the App so utterly sh*t it’s incredible. On the freeze front, mine doesn’t do it, however it has been replaced.
Oh man, that sounds exactly like my experiences with the camera. At least your replaced camera is working. I wouldn't have any confidence at all even with a new body. Your friend had even worse luck with two replaced bodies.
I still love Leica and my new M11 is rock solid. However, I wouldn't recommend one to a friend, rather I would point them in the direction of the new Nikon Fx which looks promising as it will pair nicely with a great range of manual Voigtlander lenses and is small, light with a full set of manual dials for that more considered shooting experience. My final bug bear with Leica was that it was impossible to register the camera as their website had problems, Manchester Leica were appalling blaming my SD cards and the App is simply rubbish, you can't depend on it to work. My phone which costs a fraction of the price will connect to my car, headphones etc instantly, where as the Leica App is Russian Roulette. Ahhh I feel better for getting that off my chest ;-)@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel
Have no experience with the M11, but my rule of thumb is not to buy the latest released camera. Instead I bought for great deals one M 240 and one MM 246 series cameras which are well established and work very reliably. The camera is a bit more bulky than the M6 for example, but it doesn't matter to me. I love the more film-like color rendition of the M 240 sensor, too. Leica uses in the M11 first time a Sony-based full-frame sensor but obviously faces trouble to make it work flawlessly with other electronics and software in the camera. I consider the M11 a stepping stone to a likely better working M12 version (maybe with image stabilizer?) in the future. But price will remain > $8K for sure.
I have now heard of freezes from almost every M version except the M240. It is really difficult with Leica to find a camera series that runs without any errors, no matter how old it is. Maybe they will manage to fix the M11 when the M12 comes out, so it runs mostly error-free. I wouldn't hope for an image stabilizer because Daniel Stefan, the Vice President of Technology at Leica, said that there is no space for it in the body.
It is interesting you mentioned image stabilisation. I noted with great interest that Nikon have managed that with the Nikon Fx so hopefully Leica will come good. My first M11 failed, but the replacement is going strong, I'm well past 5,000 shots. That said the Leica website and App is abysmal.
Photo walk with a long awaited catch up with a friend who just got the m11, and he took 5 shots before it completely froze. Leica Mayfair sorted the replacement but it took 8 weeks. Why? Leica.
Yes, that sounds just like the M11 I know. :D I once turned it on, and it stopped working... fortunately, your friend got a replacement, even though it took a while.
I would wait a few years for the upgrade until Leica has ironed out all the bugs. In the end, it's also a matter of whether you can just get a working camera or not, as I mentioned, it's like playing Russian roulette.
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel And that’s not sustainable… I’m perfectly happy with the M10 to be honest. To me it’s mostly about the lens, and the 50 lux is just dreamt with an M.
M10 user here - I had an issue with ISO dial stopping to work (surprise - that was hardware issue) but then Leica fixed it. Since then I've been happily snapping away on my LEICA glass.
@@alternatereality7713 I had this issue too - It stopped responding. I contacted Leica, and even though my warranty was long expired they fixed it for free. Before I sent it down, they asked if I wanted to borrow another camera+lens(es) meanwhile. So I got to pick whatever camera I wanted, they sent it to me + shipping slips for my M10. Best customer experience I've ever had. The M10 has been working flawlessly since then.
Yes, quite a lot of comments. 😅 I had the camera repaired at Leica, but what they can't fix, they can't fix. Honestly, it was even worse after the repair...
Interesting video, thanks for posting. My M11 is currently away in Wetzlar to try to fix the intermittent overexposure problem. I use it in parallel with Q2, which has never done this in same lighting. Happens in all metering modes. Camera April 23 with 1.61 firmware from new.
You're welcome. Oh, you also have the overexposure problem? I thought it was because they adjusted something on my light meter during my repair. I hope you get yours back in better condition. Otherwise, I would advise you to get the camera replaced. Maybe that will help.
A hint to all, a general issue I figured out is, if you stick in the battery, the Leicas do something, wether it's a M11 or my SL2-S, whatever having that new battery pop-in/out system. If you power on the camera until is has done some - as I call it - pre boot energy loadings, it will crash when powering on. With firmware 5.2 on my SL2-S I could reproduce it, didn't check it yet since I updated to 6.0. So, stick in your battery, wait 5 seconds, then power on. On the SL2-S you have an indicator, just wait until the top screen turns dark again.
Haha, I'm glad. There's no need to be envious of digital Leica users anymore when you know that it usually brings more problems anyway. :D Since then, I've been enjoying my M6 more again!
thx for sharing you expirience, this confirms my direction. No freezes or surprises with the old m10 or sl601...no need vor >24mp or newer tec in a leica m. i would take the money, buy an m240 or m10, and for the rest, i would take the 35 lux fle...thats might be a better way, an your m6 is supported. The voigtländer 35 is good, but not as good....but that is only my way with new tech and old lenses...
You're welcome. Definitely a good direction since the M10 has been receiving updates for years that have fixed most of the bugs. The 35mm Nokton is only truly usable from f/2.8 onwards, and I would have eventually bought a 35mm APO Lanthar or the new 35mm Summilux in the long run.
The M11 is the perfect metaphor for Germany writ large. It's sad. Maybe the 12 will be outsourced to Panasonic and be better for it. LOL my M6 is still going and been with me 35 years. Guess it will have to keep doing until we get a Qx with a 35 lux.
Yeah, kind of. The cameras like Q3 and SL3 were made together with Panasonic, and they are noticeably better than the in-house production M11. So it would really be better if Panasonic could contribute more to the cameras.
i've subscribed...now im not going to buy any used Leica M11 or digital anymore...im about to pull the trigger in next week ....but OMG i can buy Ricoh GR3 and smile with my money inside my pocket if LEICA is a big WHITE elephant
Thank you for the sub, One can already buy a Leica.....it's just a matter of luck whether one gets a functional one or not. Then one should quickly return it if it starts showing faults. ✌️
That really sucks. I grabbed a mp240 and m246 a while ago and don’t experience anything like this. That said, I have ancient an canon 5d, 1dx, 5dsr that have NEVER frozen or not worked. If only canon would make small, pro build primes….
The MP240 and 262 are fantastic cameras. A friend has one and is very satisfied with it. A professional camera should definitely not have any freezes, and I consider the M11 to be a professional tool. It would be really great if all camera manufacturers would build small bodies and lenses. I already really like the new Nikon ZF, for example.
Mine hasn’t had any significant issues. I’ve had several M cameras and this is my least favourite one however. I’m actually considering switching to Hasselblad even though I love the M form factor.
Then you were lucky with yours. I’ve also seen many M11-P reviews, and many people complain about freezes even with that camera. Hasselblad is also an interesting brand. However, if you like the form factor, a medium format camera is definitely not ideal. I think renting one to see if it's the right camera/brand for you would be a good idea.
Thanks. I stopped buying Leica cameras that had electronics in them. Too many issues, some fatal. Because I love the M system, i decided to give it one more try. The Leica MP. Purely mechanical and a light meter that only gives suggestions. I will wait until Leica can give the digital reliability that I am entitled to for that sum of money.
The Leica MP is Leica's best camera they produce. I also no longer have a digital Leica except for my M6. I think Leica won't get their digital ones any better, or you wait years and hope that the cameras are then advanced enough that most of the errors are fixed.
! applaud your honesty! I've used friends Leica Digital boxes! The viewfinder was super in 1954! But! Yes in 60's Pentax, Nikon-F and later Canon would rule! My Spotmatics never needed repairs, used professionally. I LOVE SLR! My M3 still in use! Decent film, good processing, one does NOT need digital, especially at that cost! Bravo!
i wonder if those issues are a black paint leica issue because my friends than own them have the same issues but the ones that own the brass ones dont have these issues
That's quite possible. After receiving messages from so many people about having broken cameras, there are also many who don't have any issues. So, it feels like it's just a matter of chance whether the camera works or not. Maybe it has something to do with the body, but I don't think so.
I’ve had two M11s. I sold them both. I had the errors which you described with both cameras. I’ve still got my M6, but I don’t won’t be buying another digital M.
Thank you for sharing very very much, i use the mp240 & i struggle with how slow the camerais to start & how slow to naviagte the images & how slow everything is in this overpriced camera
The M240 is really old, one must say. :D If you can believe the comments here, the M240 is still Leica's most reliable M camera even if its a bit slower. 👌
Thank you for posting. I too will stick to my film Leica MP and Leica M2. I sold my Fujifilm X100V because of similar problems you quoted with the M11. Always chose higher shutter speed; autofocus unreliable; wouldn't allow software update; rear screen image so different to final picture which always seemed to come out too dark; rubbish in low light ; settings randomly change in my camera bag so I end up missing shots because I wasn't sure what the problem was in the field.etc etc. I am amazed that the problems I thought were unique to the X100V are also present in the M11.The film images I get with Leica are amazing and if I want digital I will just use my iPhone which was much better than X100V in most cases anyway. Digital photography has become so fashionably over sharp and over lightroomed I am much happier sticking with grain, soft images and imperfection. Cheers and regards.
Oh wow, it seems like you had the X100V equivalent of my M11. lol You're encountering a lot of issues that I've never heard of with an X100V. However, it's always the problem with RUclips test channels that it feels like many issues are swept under the rug. I'm going to go back to shooting more analog film now. Somehow, it's still the best photography experience you can have.
According to Daniel Milnor film Leica's break too. He said only his M4-2 didn't break. Would have maybe bought a Leica lens, but then somebody wrote about the Summicron the thing you generally hear about the Industar-50 3.5.
@@arneheeringa96 Yes it's true that anything old may break down be it a vintage car or a film camera. My old M6 had issues which is why I changed to a MP and was lucky enough to get a mint refurbished M2. The point is that for general operation in the field the analog experience is more controlled with no surprises. Also whatever suits you and you enjoy the most is the important thing. Cheers!
That sucks big time, sorry to hear about your frustrating experience with the M11. But great to hear you can return it! Have you found a successor camera for your professional work already?
Yes, I was pleased that Calumet took back the camera without any problems. Leica can't guarantee to provide me with a flawless M11, so I preferred to get my money back. Since my wife really wanted an X-T5 and already had a bunch of new XF lenses, I bought an X-H2 so that we can now use the same system. While the camera may not be quite as much fun, it is at least much more reliable and error-free. 👌
I had a m10-r and really enjoyed the experience. It was to expensive, so I ended up selling it. I ended up going with a Nikon D810 for the optical view finder. The experience has been similar to the Leica m10r in allot of ways. The only down side is the size and no range finder patch for manual focus lenses, but I’m really enjoying going back to a dslr after like 12 years of shooting mainly fujifilm cameras.
That's why the first batch of a major re-design or new product is a gamble, with often times a lot of growing pains. In the case of Leica, the upcoming M11-P is the one to go for...
At the end, every product is a gamble; however, Leica should actually get it right after 17 years of digital cameras. Well, according to forums, the M11 Monochrome still has the freeze issue, so one can assume that the M11-P won't be any different if they don't find the root of the problem by then.
That’s true. And they spend a lot of time between M iterations. So one would expect enough time to test it out and identify the bugs 🫣. For now I will hold on to my M10-P 😇
The M11 is a design disaster, full of Japanese implementations that totally destroy the rangefinder philosophy, it is not only expensive it is a rip-off.
It may even be that the M11 is in this unfinished state because Leica has not collaborated enough with Panasonic. I can't remember hearing about problems with Lumix cameras. Even if there are any, all decisions made by Leica are their own. So if someone has destroyed the philosophy, it was Leica themselves.
I own a Q3 and had zero issues with it after the last firmware update. I really like to shoot with the Q3. That said, you can’t compare a Q3 with an M11. Totally different hardware and software. It would surprise me if the Q3 has hardware designed by panasonic/lumix. The SL2 is the same camera as the Lumix S1R. But it’s all speculation. But thanks to your video I am nog going to step up to M11.
Hey there! That's awesome to hear you're loving your Q3 after the firmware update. You're right, the Q3 and M11 are totally different beasts with different hardware and software. If the Q3 suits your needs, stick with it and keep capturing those great shots!
Thank you for this eye-opening report. If I may suggest the opposite example. I have an Olympus OM-D EM-1, first generation, that rolled in its bag under three cars on a motorway. The screen and one of the lenses were broken, the rest still works. Manual focusing quick and pin-point precise. Never any software glitch. Autofocus famously quick as well. Amazing sharpness. But M43 format and 16 MP only. I’ve been looking for a replacement for years, dismissed Fujis as toys, finally considering Leica for their supposed ruggedness. Now I’m beginning to think that I’ll stick with the Oly for decades...
The good old Olympus cameras, built like tanks. If Fujis cameras seem too toy-like for you, it's going to be challenging. Perhaps the new Nikon ZF might be worth a look. I've received so many comments about every Leica model having some kind of issue... maybe sticking with Olympus is the way to go.
Great video. And your points are on point. A leica fanboy myself. Had some freezes with the m11 but the q3 omg, +20 freezes on a wedding day. Now one of my sl2s is in for repair after a firmware update. 🤪😱
20 freezes damn :o and I thought the M11 was bad, but this is absolutely unusable. I hope they can also fix the SL2s.
5 месяцев назад+1
I didn't have a single freeze on my 5D MkII in like 15 years of shooting more than 500.000 photos - what is wrong with that Leica?? I would constantly worry about freezes with that "premium" camera.
Sad that their latest and greatest has so many issues. I loved my M8 but it occasionally froze. My M9 and M Monochrom (new Leica sensor repairs) have performed well with zero freezing so far and no issues with my SL Type 601. I would be very hesitant to buy a new Leica now days and kind of prefer the older, more simple models.
The camera shop around the corner once said that the M10 froze because of the gyroscope sensor when the camera was tilted. lol Yes, I can definitely understand that the simpler models were probably better. The more features, the more complicated and error-prone it becomes.
I also have a Type 601 and M monochrom and use them with confidence, no problems with hardware or software. I don’t have any reason to get Leica’s newest and greatest. Cost is a major consideration, but I’m also satisfied with the cameras in use and image quality.
Thank you! You confirmed my suspicions again. I love range finders and looked for one that was produced not too long ago or new. Based on my experience with Leica, any electronic item is a risk. Often you have to pay ridiculous sums for repair, or you are told that the camera is beyond repair. There was no way I could be persuaded to buy a digital Leica M. I loved your drawing of the “horse”. At the time, there were 2 Leica film cameras: MA and MP. No electronics. I bought the MP because of the light meter, which I can ignore. No M6 for me!
Hey there! Glad to hear I confirmed your suspicions. 😄 Leica film cameras like the MA and MP are classics for a reason - no electronics to worry about, and they're built like tanks. You made a wise choice with the MP, and I totally get why you'd steer clear of the digital M series. Keep rocking that analog photography!
I’ve been fortunate in not having any problems with my M11 but I suspect that’s just because of the settings I use. I must use the camera in a way that makes it happy! The problem for potential purchasers is not knowing whether that will also be the case for them. Personally, if I hadn’t already bought it, I would probably buy it anyway because I’d want the newest Leica, but that may be me just justifying to myself my purchase. Suffice to say though, many people haven’t had a problem with their M11
Oh, that's really good that yours works. 👌 Many have also said that they had problems at first and then the 1.6 update improved things. Leica's repair service also mentioned that settings play a big role in whether there are freezes or not. It looks like you've chosen the right ones. 👍
can you explain your typical settings when the freezing occurs. Or at least how you usually shoot ( high iso, high fps etc.?)@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel
Interesting to hear about these issues... I thought Leica would do it better. At least their analog cameras are well made... (if i dont look at the 1/1000s of my Barnack and my M2 :D )
Actually, I thought so too. I had been using the M6 for a few years and thought that since Leica aims to be a premium brand, they would also deliver premium quality with their digital cameras. But unfortunately, no.
Thank you, Goughie. My Instagram will be much more boring now without the regular M11 errors. LOL With the X-H2, I've only found one bug so far, and it's rather negligible. 😄
I think a lot of the issues that you have happened with the earlier releases.I have had my M11 for 4 months now and have no issues, other than one random freeze before the last update. Sorry to hear of your experiences. I really love mine ;)
I'm genuinely happy for you. I've already heard both in the comments. Many have freezes, and many work well from 1.6 onwards. It felt like my M11 was the worst M11 Leica ever sold. lol Then I hope yours continues to remain error-free.
After 6 month using my M11P i had no camera freezing at all. The problem come for the live view. I never use live view to verified my shots. I know they are good. Keep it simple.
No matter how good a photographer is, the camera should work regardless of how it's used. If Leica includes the Live View function, then it should work properly. However, as I also mentioned in the video, this doesn't apply to all models. But you can see from all the comments that I'm not the only one experiencing issues, and the M11 is not the only camera with problems. 👌
That overexposure thing: How tight - or loose - are focus and aperture ring on the lenses you use? Do you accidentally open the aperture when focussing? Please don't get it wrong, I'm just asking. However, I gonna bet the motherboard has a permanent glitch in the matrix.
I have 2 Voigtländer lenses with quite well-adjusted aperture rings. So, I can assure you that this is not the problem. The overexposure issues only started after the camera was repaired by Leica. It's more likely a metering setting that got messed up.
Hehe, I think anyone who is honest with themselves and can objectively judge cameras will say that about Leica. In the end, though, no one else builds rangefinder cameras like Leica, and then you end up buying them anyway.
Leica quality, which has been steadily declining since the M10, even the former domain of lens production, has plummeted. In terms of prices compared to the competition, they can no longer be taken seriously.
I've also heard that some people had to return their new Summilux lenses because aperture rings weren't properly mounted. They can certainly ask for high prices, but then they need to deliver accordingly, which it seems they're currently massively failing to do.
There is no excuse from Leica to give its customers this kind of problem, especially given the high cost of it. I have seen photos from both M and Q cameras. To be honest, none of them blew me away. It made me appreciate more of the images taken by my Nikon and Fuji. Well, some may disagree, as this is something very subjective. Sure. Who wouldn't want to hold a beautiful camera? But if photography is the goal, it makes no difference who makes the camera. Can you imagine when you want to catch a photo on the street and your camera freezes? I would never buy an M even though I can afford it. I have had enough headache from my BMW in the past. I know I know, this is not a fair comparison. For now, I would stick with German beer.🤣
Yes, that's true. When working result-oriented, it's more important to have a good reliable camera. It really doesn't make a difference whether it's Leica, Fuji, or Nikon. Nowadays, you can't buy a bad camera... well, almost not. 😅 Nowadays, even the best German companies live off their old quality image. I see it this way; I could use an M11 for free for a year. 🤷♂️
Update .... never ever again ... that's twice I've been let down be a Leica ... M240 & M11 ... sold the lot at a HUGE loss ... BTW they don't hold their value at all!!!
I really feel sorry for you. Fortunately, I was able to return my camera as a warranty case. I also made a list of sales losses and value retention. Percentage-wise, they hold up well, but of course, you lose less money with a cheaper camera despite higher losses.
That sounds like a so called "Monday morning" product (like we use to say in German, there is no 100%, can also happen to Leica). I suggest to ask for an exchange, I am pretty sure you will get one, talk to the people in the Leica Store next to you (mine is in Zürich, the team there is awesome, a dream, you are king as customer). I shot a long time with the M10, I swapped it into an SL2-S (also using the M lenses by adapter, my solely SL lens is the APO-Summicron-SL 2/75) but I will get an M11-P as soon as it fits in the budget.
According to the comments I receive, this happens every Monday at Leica. 😄 The customer support has always been very friendly, that's something you have to give Leica credit for. If you're getting an M11-P, it's best not to do it on a Monday.
You should have titled the video The Big Negative! What a shame. Makes me almost feel lucky only having hardware problems with Leica. Almost...well, for the price, no, not at all.
Some people have problems, and some don't. Some, like me, end up with a model that simply doesn't work at all. It's a matter of luck with Leica. 🤷♂️ It's too much thrill for the price, in my opinion.
Actually, not only does your old Sony not have any of these problems, but generally, most cameras don't have these issues anymore. Maybe you'll have luck with an M11 Monochrome. 🤷♂️
I had Leica R models in the 90ies, they just broke down all the time. The R8 was the worst, I got a new one, after 2 weeks it stopped working, got another, also bad, and another that made long scratch lines on the films, the lenses was great, sold it all, after that never Leica again, but Fuji does what I need.
Oh, I didn't think that Leica would have been so lax with quality control during the film era. That absolutely should not happen. I can well understand why you didn't want to buy Leica anymore, and Fuji is certainly more than capable of competing with Leica.
The flaws happend, beacause you are not using an original overpriced tumb rest and it is obviously upset with the 3D printed one. There is a special intelligently sophisticated sensor on the camera, which instantly spot the nogo equipment . Thats pure german perfection!
Call me crazy but lots of people who have he black M11 have these issues from what Im seeing on RUclips? Also I've noticed with voiltlander lenses? I have the silver one and Ive never had a freeze or any of the issues your describing
It's possible that a certain production batch was used in black M11s. Or maybe fewer people have a silver one and therefore encounter fewer issues. :D It could also be that there are fewer issues with certain lenses, as the camera reads the 8-bit code that Voigtländer lenses don't have. In the end, even Leica themselves don't know where the problem lies.
No freeze issues with my Q3 anymore. It's too bad you had such a problematic experience. 😐
Oh, interesting. My time with the Q3 was also much more relaxed and error-free. So, it seems they can get everything under control with a bit more time.
So weit so gut Jungs!
Leica M6 1994 for life!✌🏼🔥
OMG! First video on RUclips made by someone who is not a Leica-zombie. Respect.
Thank you, the higher the price, the more critical one should be with the devices. Leica doesn't blind me in that regard.
Agreed very rare, kind of like the small group of people willing to speak out about Teslas issues. Really wanted to pick up an M camera. But not the M11 or M11-P. At least until Leica publicly guarantees they have solved all the freezing issues.
Thanks for helping me save $8-9k dollars.
Hehe, you're welcome.
Yes thank you, I would have a 10k nightmare if it wasn’t for your video. Beginning to wonder if Leica m11 and q3 models have faulty boards. Should not take years to solve this issue if it’s software. Fuji has a real chance to kill Leica with an x-pro 4 with the 40mp sensor.
@@streetphotojournalism Acc. to other comments, those freezing issues are fixed already. But still, for that money, we should expect perfection.
You can buy so much with that money - imagine a car for 10k with such issues... 🙄
No it’s not fixed, many have done the updates and are still experiencing freezing issues. I went to a Leica shop and looked at a brand new M-11p and it froze while testing. This is insanity at 10k for a body that freezes with no fix in sight. Other brands that are half, to one third of the price are not freezing. Imagine asking your client hold on and give me a minute so you can pop your battery out and restart your 10k camera 😂
Nope they aren’t, still a freezing issue now in the M11-P as well. Seems like it’s a hardware issue at this point.
Last year when I got my M11 it had freezes occasionally. But with the new firmware it never happened again. I'm happy with my M11 :)
That's really good! I also wished that my M11 would have worked. Version 1.6 helped many, but unfortunately not everyone. The people at the repair center also mentioned that only specific setting configurations are affected, but they don't know why. So, it seems like you've chosen the right settings. :D
They should have fixed the issue prior to release. I don't want to be the test bunny when I buy such expensive gear....
Thank you for your video. I am in the market for a new camera and was ready to pull the trigger on an M11.
This is just my opinion, but Leica, as a premium brand, with premium prices has an obligation to make its customers happy and whole, with few to no questions asked. If I were Leica, I would be smooching the backside of any customer who had the experiences you have had. They should have sent you a replacement camera a long time ago with their apologies. If we spend that kind of money with them, we deserve that kind of customer service.
This is what a premium brand should do: It reminds me, a few years back, I bought a BMW and the “engine malfunction” light kept coming on. I brought it back over and over again. Finally I told them I was done with it. The service manager approached me and said this was a known issue with this model, and the new model no longer had that problem. He then asked if I would ever consider owning another BMW. I said yes. He then offered to purchase my car back at higher than market price and sell me a brand new model at cost. I accepted.
The next day, they called to say they made a mistake. (I thought ok, this is where they are going to stick it to me). Instead, they said my car had an extended service warranty that added value to my old car, and wrote me a check for that amount. So on top of everything they had done to make me whole, they sweetened the pot even more. Again, my opinion, but Leica has a similar obligation and should reach out to any customer who has the problems you experienced.
You're right, a camera brand like Leica should not expose itself and clearly not exchange obviously faulty cameras. They have lost me forever now. Just like with your BMW, I would have actually expected that. Especially since the customer service was aware that there seem to be cameras that don't perform well and others that run without any issues. So, it would have been best to simply exchange the camera and be done with it. The camera even had more problems in the end after I had it repaired. This should not be the case.
Very nice video! The camera that ultimately cured me of Gear Acquisition Syndrome was a surprise to me; it was the wonderful Canon 5D (Mark 1). It might be old and very basic but it's such a tactile joy to use that nothing else really matters. It's very heavy and the shutter sounds like gunfire but the sensor is sensational and is the main reason why I haven't put it down in 6 months. If you haven't tried one already, I highly recommend it.
queen mum 5D1 rules!
Thank you! The good old 5D Mark 1 has experienced a significant revival lately. Somehow, many people are talking about it, and the images from the camera look really fantastic! The camera would have cured my GAS since theoretically, nothing significant would have aged in the camera. One wouldn't have to worry about autofocus or other technical matters anymore. The sensor would have been sufficient for professional work for decades!
It makes some really nice files. I still have mine, and I looked at some old files the other day, they look amazing. I made an large exhibition with it a book and a lot of work back in the days. I have a landscape print hanging, it's 200 x 80 cm and looks really great. Canon did something right with that model.
ALL of the Canon 5- or 1- series bodies are superb. None are ‘obsolete’ if you just want to shoot stills. You can shoot anything with them, they are dirt cheap used, the lens selection covers everything you could possibly ever need, and the files are beautiful.
Shooting with 5D MkII for more than 15 years. No issues whatsoever - I don't need super fast auto focussing , like wildlife photographers - but the image quality etc. are still fantastic. I see only limitations in astro photography (noise performance), wildlife (focussing) and maybe if you need to save some weight - but apart from these points, I don't need anything new, yet.
But wouldn't go back to 5D MkI, because of the absence of liveview - I use that feature all the time. Funny also the debate regarding sensor size and megapixels...
21 MP on FF were already controversial in 2010 or so. The lenses just are not good enough to bring more details on a 40 MP sensor of the same size. I think they just increase the file size on our hard drives and who on earth needs 40 MP or more anyway?? (Get a decent composition and don't crop! And 21 MP are enough to print any size)
Hi, not surprised ... I have given up on digital Leicas as well. I have been part of the Beta Testing group for several digital Leicas in the past and the numbers testing and the time involved is really not enough to highlight the possible firmware glitches. I think the main problem is porting code from previous models on the assumption most of it will be ok and just bits needing re-writing. Issues like the failure to carry over previous settings and file numbering (which goes right back till the M9 successors) tends to support this. Previous software was written by Jenoptik but I think it's all now in-house and the team must be small compared with the likes of Fuji/Nikon/Canon etc. Leica take ages to release new fixes .... Fuji by contrast do it in days or weeks at the most and everything just works flawlessly. Basically Leica rely on the customer to beta test the new camera and often the issues are hardly fixed by the time a new model with new problems is due ....
thank you for sharing the information with me. That would at least explain a lot about why even with a top camera like the M11, the software is so incredibly mediocre. It's also clear that Leica doesn't have the manpower to quickly fix firmware errors, but allowing customers to play the role of beta testers is really not acceptable.
Sorry to hear about the experiences with the M11. I was wanting to purchase one as a "big purchase" to keep for years and use as a single camera to take with me on life's adventures. I just can't justify the price for the amount of issues I've seen revolving around the M11. An $600 USD Pentax K-70 will work flawlessly out of the box without issue. There's absolutely zero reason why a $9000 M11 shouldn't be flawless, as well. At this point, I'll continue to use my Leica TL2 and either pick up a M10, or I'll wait for the M12 to see what Leica decides to do in the quality department.
Exactly! Just as the seller who sold me the M11 said. Regardless of whether it's a $100 camera or a $9000 one, such errors should not occur at any price. Unfortunately, I've received many comments from almost every version of the M, reporting freezes. Unfortunately, you can also have bad luck with the M10.
Had a same plan lately - sell all my Nikon and Fuji gear to get M11 + two decent Voigtlanders. I am really hesitating with this step now, especially when I see how incredibly well my X-Pro3 performs. Leica was always pictured as a pure perfection and I would be OK to pay for the sake of perfection but these flaws seem really be annoying and it seems that last perfection were film Leicas... So far I only knew about longer startup time (ca. 2 seconds) but the issues reported in this video are quiet serious - imagine that freezing happens in a wedding when the couple have first kiss, or when they are putting on the rings, resulting in missed important pictures of the wedding.
Or just buy a Sony if you want a Sony sensor
My M11 has been flawless for 16 months after shooting the hell out of it. You've had bad luck for sure
I was in Munich at Calumet this weekend, and the employee there also mentioned that he has seen more faulty M11s than functioning ones. So, you're really lucky if yours actually works without any problems.
Well, yours needs to go out back to Germany to stud, to get the good DNA back in the line...take a hit for the team 😂😂
Having owned 9 Leica cameras so far, I can say it is the LESS RELIABLE brand and the absolute WORSE CUSTOMER SERVICE EVER!!
- Leica M9-P and MM1: cracked sensor.
- Leica S2: corroded sensor.
- Leica S007: video card failure on the first shoot. It took 6 months to Leica to fix it and it is only after a long ranting post on GetDPI and LFI that they fixed it. Leica doesn’t like to be trash talked…
All bought new, of course.
The Q1 and M246 have been quite reliable though and I still love my M6 Titanium and my M5 with modified lugs.
I have never had ANY problems with my Nikon D3X, Canon 5DmkIV, Nikon Zfc or Zf (FANTASTIC CAMERA!!!)
My personal experience here.
Oh, I didn't expect that. Maybe the customer service has improved as well. What happened with yours, though, is really unacceptable. It fits the picture I have from Leica through the M11-that they are unfortunately too small to produce a fully refined camera. However, I also think it’s often a matter of luck whether a camera breaks down or not, as all manufacturers can make mistakes.
My M11 also occasionally freezes but it's not too bad. What I have an issue with is their Fotos app, it's rage inducing. It's so flaky that 90% of the time I can't get the photos transferred, it takes hours of pairing and unpairing, uninstalling and re-installing the app to get some photos transferred then I'll leave it a few weeks and have to do it all again. It's mad.
The shine of Leica has definitely taken a nose dive, the M11 also feels less analogue than previous M cameras which further removes my desire to get another in future. I had a Fuji X-E3 and loved it other than it felt too much like a computer (why I went with the M11).
If Fuji could please just make a stripped back M like camera similar to the Pixii, I'd be on that like a tramp on chips.
I know Leica struggle and I would hate for them to disappear but honestly, they need to realise software engineering is equally important as hardware engineering these days. They need top end software engineers to come in and do their firmware and software, if they can do that they might win me back but I reckon the M11 might be my last Leica. :( I'll keep my M6 and 50mm cron though as it's proper Leica and amazing to use.
I can understand your thoughts completely, as I once had an X-E3. It's a great camera in itself, but when you have an M6 beside it, you realize how a camera should be. The Pixii sounds really good, but personally, I'm afraid that the engineer building the camera could disappear from one day to the next, leaving you alone with the rangefinder calibration.
The thing with the Photos app sounds very annoying. Normally, everyone says it's quite good... probably until you use it frequently. I'll stick with the M6 now and definitely won't be buying another digital M, which is a shame.
The most useful contribution on RUclips .Shot Leica for thirty years .Still have my M4 and digitally have an SL2s (heavy and the AF isn`t good when stuff starts moving ) a 246 and a CL. The most used is the CL .I was thinking of hacking in my SL2s for either a Q 2/3 of maybe M10 mono (don`t know why because I`m happy with the 246).The M11 was briefly a consideration but after reading the comments it isn`t any longer . Maybe the Q3 .... I`m to old to be lugging that SL2s around. Anyway thankyou for adding some useful and practical perspective .
Thank you for the kind words. The SL2 is indeed a heavy beast; I tested it in Wetzlar for a while. So, I can understand well why you want to exchange it for something lighter. I find it unfortunate that they discontinued the CL series; I always quite liked it. You can try out the M11 sometime. Mine was a worst case, but there are some that function flawlessly. However, it's always a gamble whether you get a flawless one.
Mmm I would forgive Leica if it was their first digital camera but this is not acceptable in 2023 and the high price makes it even worse!
The funny thing is that the M8 is the second mirrorless camera to ever hit the market. So, they should have enough experience to prevent something like this from happening... and the price leaves quite a bitter taste.
I can totally understand, I guess the old saying "they don't make them like they use to" has hit every brand 😪 @@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel
Thanks for confirming my suspicions and saving me the hassle. I will stick to my MP240 and M246 - they are still doing a very good job alongside my M7 and Q2. also, as someone says here it's the Leica lenses that make the diff.
You're welcome. It seems that the M240 cameras are still the most reliable M cameras. At least, no one has complained about these models yet. :D Leica lenses make the difference, but if you need a modern camera, you probably shouldn't be looking for one from Leica.
Both my M240’s used to occasionally freeze. My current M10 has been flawless. My Q2 freezes occasionally, SL2 has been perfect. Your video details all the current hesitation with M11, thank you. I wish Leica would get their act together and spend $ on QC instead of marketing and influencers.
For film I shoot with my M6, for digital I will stick to my fuji cameras. Love Leica but these bugs for the price are UNACCEPTABLE!
That's exactly the combo I'll be using from now on as well. These bugs are definitely too much for the price.
Leica engineers are worthless…..they only pay the Designers to do nice Leica body design….but the technology is like a 💩 head doing a job….I’m a Leica M6 user…until now I’m reluctant to buy the digital Leica….the Fujifilm XT5 and Nikon ZF are way better 😂😂😂🎉🎉🎉
I believe the many engineers working there are not as much to blame as the company bosses who want to save money on software engineers. They probably need a lot more employees to ensure that the cameras function properly. In any case, the XT-5 and ZF are definitely the better all-around cameras.
Sorry to see that your Leica M11 experience was so negative. Mine has been close to perfect for the year I have owned my M11. Only one freeze so far, and I shoot it every day. I think much of what you experienced is due to either user misunderstanding of some setup issues, and expectations about how you wanted to use the camera. It is not a point and shoot, nor is it a Q3. I pretty much never use the auto functions (except Auto ISO), so have never experiences many of your problems. If you set the shutter speed that is exactly what you will get every shot, just like aperture. If you rely on Auto ISO, and Auto Shutter Speed, the camera will try to optimize both. So I can see the SS being a bit less precise. I get consistent exposures all of the time. I can adjust to special needs by using EX Comp, and Metering Modes which are set to the same dial.
I have dealt with the touch focus issue (which I also hated) through a co-ordinated setting combination of Screen/Focus Assist/EVF Extended options. It works just the way I want now, and properly coordinates itself with or without the EVF attached.
In some circumstances I do wish for a faster frame rate when zooming like you. I think this is likely hardware, not software issue however. It is better that my M10-P ws in this regard.
The light to watch when charging with USB is the green LED on the bottom of the camera. Not the red one on the back. The camera must be switched on. The green one pulses while charging, and stays solid when fully charged. No need to look at the menu.
I have no opinions on the Icons used.
So, for me this is my every day camera, and I absolutely love it. I am on the latest firmware.
Thanks for posting this video, It is well done, and I respect the way you expressed your frustrations even if they don't aligh with my experience.
Steve
Good to hear that your M11 has fewer issues. I had hoped for the same. The AE problems actually only started after the repair in Wetzlar. They must have adjusted something incorrectly there because everything was running normally before, except for the occasional startup overexposure. Of course, the M11 is not a Q3, but when Leica incorporates features, they should work, especially since they managed it decades ago.
It's great that you found a way to make your touchscreen work the way you want it to. It would be cool if we could assign a function to the FN button for toggling on and off or one of the quick menu tiles. The zoom can surely be sped up with an update since the preliminary stage of it runs faster.
Do I need to turn on the camera for the green LED to work? Well, they should just do it like they did with the Q3, where it works as expected.
Thanks for your detailed comment. I think it's normal that our experiences differ since I probably had one of the more defective cameras, it seems.
. @TheBigNegative I guess that I don't really have an expected way things should work. I approach it from learning the way the camera works and optimizing for that. I do agree that if a feature is included in a camera it should work reliably. I will have to experiment with the auto functions more to se if I find problems with them too. For now the manual aperture/shutter speed combined with the "M" ISO properly configured gives me very accurate exposures every time.
If you assign a Menu Function to one of the customized buttons, and that function is also chosen to be included in the Quick Menu Tiles, then it's state is accurately reflected in the Quick Menu when you toggle the button. So, I think that is correct behavior.
Yes, you must turn the camera on to charge by USB. That also enables the Green LED which correctly communicates the charge status. When it stops pulsing just turn the camera off. You are fully charged. No need to check the Menu. Very convenient and easy. I really never need to open the battery compartment. Just charge and download files at the same time. Great for travel. All I have to bring is the correct USB-C cord that I would bring to charge my phone anyway. I love that feature.
I agree that some of the interconnected ways things work when configuring a camera are many times not intuitive. I find this true of all cameras. The Leica M being better than most. The Sony A1 being one of the most complicated. But I have to say, once understood and programmed the way I want it, the A1 feels like the camera has been custom built just for me. I think the old adage "with great power comes great complexity" is very true with today's cameras.
Steve
How is it possible to Touch-Focus on a M11 considering that the M11 is manual-focus?
I didn't mean touch focus like with an AF camera. I meant the touch screen feature on the M11 where it sets the point that the camera zooms to with the focus assist features.
Your M11 is protesting until Leica glass sits on it's face. 😅. Oh well, may the next owner have better luck.
Sounds strange, but that can also be part of the problem that the M11 doesn't recognize a Leica lens. lol I think my M11 is unfixable; I hope they send it back to Wetzlar and see what went wrong, as my M11 probably combines all the errors one can have.
I’m dropping any ideas of buying the M11 and am sticking with my flawless fujifilm cameras.
I can only say that you have to try it out. There are also plenty that work well, as I found out. Just not mine. That's why always buy with a warranty when it comes to used M11s.
Get a Fujifilm X-Pro.
I probably would have bought it even if the X-Pro 4 were already available. The X-Pro 3 is cool too, but I wanted to have the new 40MP sensor.
It's a pity you've had so many issues with your Leica. On the other hand: You're not alone. Since I've changed from my SL2-S (had several issues, also with over-exposure as you explained here) to Panasonic Lumix S1R, I am back there where I was the past 15 years with Olympus....reliable gear, no issues, no freezes, no problems at all! I can still use my lenses I purchased for my SL2-S because of the L-Mount-System. For me, Leica is history!
It seems like no Leica is truly free from freezes or other strange bugs. So, I can understand why you've completely moved away from Leica and Panasonic. I also have the feeling that Leica is the company with the most freezes.
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel I didn't move away from Panasonic but from Leica to Panasonic. If Leica would have the reliability of their competitors, it would be my brand of choice. Have fun taking pictures!
Hi Dirk, I’v also had numerous « freeze » moments with my SL2-S. Sent the camera to Wetzlar, it came back with the usual « can’t duplicate the problem » statement. Since then I have experienced the freeze moment at least once during every photo shoot (I do portraits). It seems to happen when I work tethered to CaptureOne; and by the way, the USB-C port of the camera is a laugh : designed by an intern, as an afterthought. SL3? No way! Hadn’t thought of the LUMIX way, but it sounds like a good idea.
My lumix s5 is amazing!
Wow, yeah at this price freezes and overexposures are completely unacceptable.
Absolutely unacceptable. That's why I returned mine! Leica can gladly take back their faulty cameras.
I don't get how a 10 000 dollar camera can have all those flaws. They seem to be firmware/software related, but still....I thought they were adamant on quality etc.
The camera has so many flaws because Leica simply thinks they can get away with it and that it affects so few cameras that it doesn't matter. Unfortunately, they have lost me as a customer forever because of this.
How come we don’t hear of these issues with Nikon, Canon and Sony?😂
Oh, lol, they have enough of their own problems. I'll just say Nikon Z8. I just find that it's simply not as good when it costs easily double or triple compared to comparable products. 🤷♂️
I was thinking about buying an M11, but these stories have chased me away. It is too much money to spend for a camera that does not work.
My M11 was a worst-case scenario. If you're interested, you can try one out; there are also many that work normally, but it's always a gamble whether the M11 will function flawlessly.
Sounds like it is time for Leica to scrap their firmware and start over.
Maybe the software department should pass it over to Panasonic's Lumix software department; they seem to have it figured out, it seems. :D
(7:28) "Das kann nicht sein" 🤣🤣🤣
Fun aside, those are the reasons I never purchased Leica; simply, it's overpriced.
So I'll stick to my Fuji gear and Oly OM gear for 35mm film photography.
Gruß
Yeah, my wife said that because it happened right in the middle of a job. I had to disassemble the camera from a set panorama tripod head and reconfigure it. For the flaws the M11 exhibits, it's definitely overpriced!
I think Leica is loosing its swing. I mean they cost more and more, but the quality is decreasing...I shoot Leica, but I recognize that the cameras are not like the old ones...I am thinking to buy back some goldies...
I have to agree with you. Hardly anyone complains about the old M240. The golden times seem to be over.
You are right: if the camera freezes in front of the client, you look like an .... :) Has happened to me also with my X-T2.
I can empathize with you. 😄 You're the first person I've heard of whose Fuji camera has stopped working.
Great review and video. I was wondering if you can recommend a good 35mm lens for Leica M11 (non Leica lens as I am on a limited budget). I've heard good things on Voigtlander. Have you tried it before? Thanks.
I only have Voigtländer lenses for M, but they are rather hit and miss. For the M11, I would say that only the 35mm f2 Ultron is really good because it is simply the sharpest. The 35mm 1.4 Nokton that I have and the new 35mm 1.5 Nokton that I once had are not sharp enough to fully utilize the 60MP, and you can see even at 36MP that it's not enough at wide aperture.
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel thanks for the tips. I've sampled the Nokton line for my Fuji XH2. Too soft and creamy for my liking.
Even without the issues with this model, it’s a camera (and brand) that makes no sense to me. These cameras seem like they have less features for more money and I don’t get why. This camera should be cheaper than most modern cameras imo. Leica fans, would you feel different about this camera if it was 1500 USD instead of 8000 (or whatever it is)? Like would it be a better camera for you or would it loose some of its special’ness? I’m legitimately wondering why people pay so much for cameras that has less potential.
Hey, I think I can explain this well. Manufacturers like Sony, Canon, or Nikon produce millions of cameras. This also means that the development costs of the cameras can be spread across the number of units produced. That's why the best models from these manufacturers are more expensive, because not everyone needs all the features, and therefore, the production cost per camera is higher.
The same applies to Leica. Since only a few people will buy an M11, each individual camera has to be more expensive, regardless of the features it has or doesn't have. Additionally, the cost of assembling the camera here in Germany adds to the price.
Because the M11 has fewer features, fewer features become obsolete over time. Don't need the latest autofocus? No problem, it wasn't included anyway! :D
Working with a rangefinder may be a preference; some like it, and some don't. If you don't like it, I can certainly understand because it can sometimes be challenging. But once you've mastered it, it's a great feeling, and every camera with autofocus feels like cheating! :D
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel look at Canikon prices! Close to Leica...
It's not the expense. It's the feel, which comes at a price. Leica's are expensive because they're basically handmade. The cost of time and labor adds up. Hold a Leica and hold an X100v it's a world of difference. I own and love both but nothing compares to the feel of a Leica. But if someone is having issues like these, that is inexcusable at this price point. (Fwiw, I have an M10-P and had zero issues with it.)
The idealogy of a digital M still doesn't make sense to me, the M cameras were designed as perfectly nice film cameras, and digital Ms just don't have the soul in them. It's like those vintage cars converted to electric, I just can't see the reason especially with their high price tags. Back in the days Leica Ms were designed to be field tools, function over form. That's why it's so iconic despite being so simply designed. But if you just swap the function without touching the form, it's missing the point isn't it. And the thing is, it's not like film cameras are extinct, in fact they are getting attractions, so the reason for getting a M11 with 3x the price as a mint condition M6 just, baffles me. Sorry I seemed harsh on this topic that I shouldn't have strong opinions on.
That is a 9k camera with a special pedigree. What a disappointment
Yes, unfortunately, it's a disappointment. A pedigree should ideally demonstrate that it's a mature camera rather than one with so many issues.
The same thing happened to me with my Leica M10-R Black Paint camera. It stops suddenly and I have to take out the battery and put it back again, which is very annoying. I am surprised how an ancient company like Leica allows such problems to occur in its products without finding a solution to them?!
Oh man, even the M10-R? I thought Leica would have fixed the camera after all these years. It was certainly even more annoying since the camera still had a baseplate that you had to remove first. It seems like not enough people are affected for it to be worth finding a solution.
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel frankly, for me, my Leica M10-R did not freeze much . I contacted their branch in Dubai, and they advised me to remove the memory card and reformat it via the computer. I did that, and thank God the problem ended. They also advised me that after I removed the memory card from one camera and used it in another camera, I should reformat it again. I followed their recommendations, and thank God my problem ended.
At last a truthful report! A friend had the Monochom with the rust dots! 11 months to fix. I finally made my pal allow me to shoot The MF'er.. Rust seemed gone.. The Zeiss 35mm lens had flare problems. Worse than my almost 60 years old Summicron 50mm! My advice was SELL! He did. Lockup in a wedding, crap exposures simply unacceptable. The price!! It is a failure. It cannot only be yours! Side note back in '67 my M3 was delivered. End of run! It arrived without a RFDR! I kid you not. A week wait while it was finally assembled! I should have received another! So much for QC then or now! Oh! 9 months latter I received a letter from Leitz! It stated some customers are too fussy! NO FLUFFING RNGFDR! Geez. I still us my M3! Digital is different! It is a lemon.
Oh man, I would have thought that camera quality control was taken more seriously in the past. I'm really starting to wonder how Leica even managed to achieve their high status if they had so many problems for so long. An M3 without a rangefinder is truly the pinnacle of it all.
and not even a real apology! @@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel
i am havinga loaner M11 because my M10R is at repair for chronically underexposing (second repair after a broken mount this year) . So far , m11 has been behaving nicely , no freeze so far
Then, I hope that you get your M10 R back in working condition soon. I was in Munich at Calumet this weekend, and the employee there also mentioned that he has seen more faulty M11s than functioning ones. So, it might just be a matter of time until the camera freezes.
"Mid-life crisis object of desire" - I am going through the same, bro.
But gosh, way too many bugs for a $10k camera. Not buying it. Thanks for the video.
You're welcome. You can always try to buy one, although I can't say how likely it is to get a working one.
Well, fortunately my m10 does not freeze or have any other blockers of me taking photos. Im wedding photographer and so far the only "problem" over other current cameras is the manual focusing. Sometimes i wonder if it's worth it to put so much more effort to get the photo, range finders are not the best for shooting moving subjects especially in low light places where zone focusing is out of the question and you are forced to shoot at 1.4 2 and 6400, 12800 iso. But you know what, when i come back and look at the photos, yes its worth it.
I shoot sony a73 with 35gm along side my m10 with lux 50. I just cant stand the photos from Sony anymore, have been very reliable system and 100 times easier to use especially for weddings over the last 2 years, shot canon R before that, nikon dslr and fuji X before.
Its already too long but bottom line is, Leica is hate love relationship. But the results are worth it in my experience. Also i personally feel so satisfied shooting with the leica, its like playing a game and finishing it on the hardest mode against finishing on the easiest, the satisfaction and joy is 10x.
"Love-hate relationship" describes pretty accurately what one has with Leica. The amazing pictures taken with the M feel like success. Pictures from a Sony/Fuji/Canon almost feel like cheating. :D So, I can completely relate with you.
I have a M10-R and have encountered some strange software bugs. It mostly occurred during the first year of ownership. Lately, it has been pretty stable. But, I agree, this is a huge stain for such a premium brand. This should be a top priority for them.
In English, the translation of your sentence would be: "Then I hope for you that your M10-R doesn't start acting up again. I don't think the priority is as high since not many cameras are affected as badly as mine.
M10R Black Paint edition is the best digital Leica M. I’ve been using it for 2 years. Never updated it. I think it has 1 update for the Steel Rim profile.. And the camera has been perfect.
Very cool, then you've won the Leica lottery if you don't have any issues with it. The black paints are also beauties. Continue to enjoy it! 👌
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel M10Rs are very reliable. M11s not so much. It has all changed now.
@owinthomas9678 unfortunately where I live there is no such thing as camera insurance. I even went to an insurance agent and he never got back to me. But I take care of it. Value doesnt bother me because I will own it forever. I don't care about camera bodies anymore.
I was wondering the following: Why is Leica not using more from Panasonic? While we don't know where the inerts of the camera actually come from, there is a large chance that it is made by Panasonic. Why make the good Panasonic software crappy?
Good question. The little Leica D-Lux is also just a rebranded Panasonic camera. It would be better for Leica if they did that. I think they collaborate on focus algorithms. The Leica Q3 has a fantastic eye autofocus that is definitely not from Leica. I believe the issue lies in the hardware assembly of the Leica M11, which was not adequately tested.
I see video after video complaining about the software, slow frame rate, slow to turn on, slow image processing... So it begs the question how can they justify the premium price? It's to bad because if they addressed the issues I would most likely be in line to pick one up.
For what is offered, the price is more than overpriced. However, they cater to a niche of people with money. There are also M11 models that don't have as many issues, but still, the software is mediocre. It seems like one has to wait for years until the software is matured.
I am so over the moon with my M11, I plan to sell most of my other cameras and shoot with it exclusively.
I can relate to that. I've sold more than 10 cameras, including an M3, because it was so much fun to shoot with the M11. Well, now I have 10 cameras less and no M11.
When you pay so much money for a product, you should expect nothing less than perfection. No excuses, no slack cut. My 2 cents as a programmer for the software issues, is that it is not surprising to hear, since software nowadays is terrible and it has been actually declining, not improving for a long long time.
Yeah, the software has to become more complex with more features, but the quality keeps declining from generation to generation at Leica. In Germany, there aren't enough good software engineers that Leica could hire to fix the problem.
Still with the latest v2.05 firmware my Q3 freezes randomly.
Super valuable testimony. Well done
Appreciate your kind words! Glad you enjoyed the video.
thankyou for supressing my GAS Daniel! Now the prices of film leicas will go up x(
Hehe, to influence price i think i need at least 100.000 follower :D I just hope i could warn people to make a expensive mistake. lol
The software is abysmal. Not to mention my first M11 had to be replaced as did my friends (twice). As for the App so utterly sh*t it’s incredible. On the freeze front, mine doesn’t do it, however it has been replaced.
Oh man, that sounds exactly like my experiences with the camera. At least your replaced camera is working. I wouldn't have any confidence at all even with a new body. Your friend had even worse luck with two replaced bodies.
I still love Leica and my new M11 is rock solid. However, I wouldn't recommend one to a friend, rather I would point them in the direction of the new Nikon Fx which looks promising as it will pair nicely with a great range of manual Voigtlander lenses and is small, light with a full set of manual dials for that more considered shooting experience. My final bug bear with Leica was that it was impossible to register the camera as their website had problems, Manchester Leica were appalling blaming my SD cards and the App is simply rubbish, you can't depend on it to work. My phone which costs a fraction of the price will connect to my car, headphones etc instantly, where as the Leica App is Russian Roulette. Ahhh I feel better for getting that off my chest ;-)@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel
Thank you for this video, I can imagine the disappointment and regret of having to return your dream camera. I feel for you brother.
Thank you for the compassion. I was quite disappointed, but it's no use if I don't have a reliable work tool.
Have no experience with the M11, but my rule of thumb is not to buy the latest released camera. Instead I bought for great deals one M 240 and one MM 246 series cameras which are well established and work very reliably. The camera is a bit more bulky than the M6 for example, but it doesn't matter to me. I love the more film-like color rendition of the M 240 sensor, too. Leica uses in the M11 first time a Sony-based full-frame sensor but obviously faces trouble to make it work flawlessly with other electronics and software in the camera. I consider the M11 a stepping stone to a likely better working M12 version (maybe with image stabilizer?) in the future. But price will remain > $8K for sure.
I have now heard of freezes from almost every M version except the M240. It is really difficult with Leica to find a camera series that runs without any errors, no matter how old it is. Maybe they will manage to fix the M11 when the M12 comes out, so it runs mostly error-free. I wouldn't hope for an image stabilizer because Daniel Stefan, the Vice President of Technology at Leica, said that there is no space for it in the body.
It is interesting you mentioned image stabilisation. I noted with great interest that Nikon have managed that with the Nikon Fx so hopefully Leica will come good. My first M11 failed, but the replacement is going strong, I'm well past 5,000 shots. That said the Leica website and App is abysmal.
Photo walk with a long awaited catch up with a friend who just got the m11, and he took 5 shots before it completely froze. Leica Mayfair sorted the replacement but it took 8 weeks. Why? Leica.
Yes, that sounds just like the M11 I know. :D I once turned it on, and it stopped working... fortunately, your friend got a replacement, even though it took a while.
Thank you for the video!
Using Q2 and M10. Never experienced this, seems not so Leicaish...
Makes me want to hold out with upgrading.
I would wait a few years for the upgrade until Leica has ironed out all the bugs. In the end, it's also a matter of whether you can just get a working camera or not, as I mentioned, it's like playing Russian roulette.
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel And that’s not sustainable… I’m perfectly happy with the M10 to be honest. To me it’s mostly about the lens, and the 50 lux is just dreamt with an M.
@@davidenpunktse I own a M10 too. And I never experienced those issues too.
M10 user here - I had an issue with ISO dial stopping to work (surprise - that was hardware issue) but then Leica fixed it. Since then I've been happily snapping away on my LEICA glass.
@@alternatereality7713 I had this issue too - It stopped responding. I contacted Leica, and even though my warranty was long expired they fixed it for free. Before I sent it down, they asked if I wanted to borrow another camera+lens(es) meanwhile. So I got to pick whatever camera I wanted, they sent it to me + shipping slips for my M10. Best customer experience I've ever had. The M10 has been working flawlessly since then.
795 comments 😳, they really should have reached out to and worked with you to solve the issues.
Yes, quite a lot of comments. 😅 I had the camera repaired at Leica, but what they can't fix, they can't fix. Honestly, it was even worse after the repair...
Fuji is better! period.
All in all, especially in terms of value for money, Fuji is significantly better.
Interesting video, thanks for posting. My M11 is currently away in Wetzlar to try to fix the intermittent overexposure problem. I use it in parallel with Q2, which has never done this in same lighting. Happens in all metering modes. Camera April 23 with 1.61 firmware from new.
You're welcome. Oh, you also have the overexposure problem? I thought it was because they adjusted something on my light meter during my repair. I hope you get yours back in better condition. Otherwise, I would advise you to get the camera replaced. Maybe that will help.
Wtf over exposure issues on a 10k camera? What is going on over at Leica 😂
A hint to all, a general issue I figured out is, if you stick in the battery, the Leicas do something, wether it's a M11 or my SL2-S, whatever having that new battery pop-in/out system. If you power on the camera until is has done some - as I call it - pre boot energy loadings, it will crash when powering on. With firmware 5.2 on my SL2-S I could reproduce it, didn't check it yet since I updated to 6.0. So, stick in your battery, wait 5 seconds, then power on. On the SL2-S you have an indicator, just wait until the top screen turns dark again.
Cool, thanks for the warning. For example, I mostly charged the camera via USB-C, so at least my crashes were never due to this issue.
@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel That's what comments are for, sharing knowledge with the community (I'm right wing, just saying😉).
This gave me a greater sense of appreciation for my m6 & Sony cameras. Thank you!
Haha, I'm glad. There's no need to be envious of digital Leica users anymore when you know that it usually brings more problems anyway. :D Since then, I've been enjoying my M6 more again!
thx for sharing you expirience, this confirms my direction. No freezes or surprises with the old m10 or sl601...no need vor >24mp or newer tec in a leica m. i would take the money, buy an m240 or m10, and for the rest, i would take the 35 lux fle...thats might be a better way, an your m6 is supported. The voigtländer 35 is good, but not as good....but that is only my way with new tech and old lenses...
You're welcome. Definitely a good direction since the M10 has been receiving updates for years that have fixed most of the bugs. The 35mm Nokton is only truly usable from f/2.8 onwards, and I would have eventually bought a 35mm APO Lanthar or the new 35mm Summilux in the long run.
The M11 is the perfect metaphor for Germany writ large. It's sad. Maybe the 12 will be outsourced to Panasonic and be better for it. LOL my M6 is still going and been with me 35 years. Guess it will have to keep doing until we get a Qx with a 35 lux.
Yeah, kind of. The cameras like Q3 and SL3 were made together with Panasonic, and they are noticeably better than the in-house production M11. So it would really be better if Panasonic could contribute more to the cameras.
i've subscribed...now im not going to buy any used Leica M11 or digital anymore...im about to pull the trigger in next week ....but OMG i can buy Ricoh GR3 and smile with my money inside my pocket if LEICA is a big WHITE elephant
Thank you for the sub, One can already buy a Leica.....it's just a matter of luck whether one gets a functional one or not. Then one should quickly return it if it starts showing faults. ✌️
That really sucks. I grabbed a mp240 and m246 a while ago and don’t experience anything like this. That said, I have ancient an canon 5d, 1dx, 5dsr that have NEVER frozen or not worked. If only canon would make small, pro build primes….
The MP240 and 262 are fantastic cameras. A friend has one and is very satisfied with it. A professional camera should definitely not have any freezes, and I consider the M11 to be a professional tool. It would be really great if all camera manufacturers would build small bodies and lenses. I already really like the new Nikon ZF, for example.
Mine hasn’t had any significant issues. I’ve had several M cameras and this is my least favourite one however.
I’m actually considering switching to Hasselblad even though I love the M form factor.
Then you were lucky with yours. I’ve also seen many M11-P reviews, and many people complain about freezes even with that camera. Hasselblad is also an interesting brand. However, if you like the form factor, a medium format camera is definitely not ideal. I think renting one to see if it's the right camera/brand for you would be a good idea.
Thanks. I stopped buying Leica cameras that had electronics in them. Too many issues, some fatal. Because I love the M system, i decided to give it one more try. The Leica MP. Purely mechanical and a light meter that only gives suggestions. I will wait until Leica can give the digital reliability that I am entitled to for that sum of money.
The Leica MP is Leica's best camera they produce. I also no longer have a digital Leica except for my M6. I think Leica won't get their digital ones any better, or you wait years and hope that the cameras are then advanced enough that most of the errors are fixed.
Technology not always better, it works when it works and when it doesn’t sh*t.
Love my low tech M3 and M2, batteries not included because not needed.
You're absolutely right. I'm also glad that I still have my M6. Analog cameras are indeed the best cameras Leica has ever made.
! applaud your honesty! I've used friends Leica Digital boxes! The viewfinder was super in 1954! But! Yes in 60's Pentax, Nikon-F and later Canon would rule! My Spotmatics never needed repairs, used professionally. I LOVE SLR! My M3 still in use! Decent film, good processing, one does NOT need digital, especially at that cost! Bravo!
I agree, the Leica viewfinder is a classic, but I also like the versatility of SLR cameras. I’m glad you still enjoy your M3 and your Spotmatics. 👌
i wonder if those issues are a black paint leica issue because my friends than own them have the same issues but the ones that own the brass ones dont have these issues
That's quite possible. After receiving messages from so many people about having broken cameras, there are also many who don't have any issues. So, it feels like it's just a matter of chance whether the camera works or not. Maybe it has something to do with the body, but I don't think so.
I’ve had two M11s. I sold them both. I had the errors which you described with both cameras. I’ve still got my M6, but I don’t won’t be buying another digital M.
Oh, both sold already. That's really annoying, of course. Was that before firmware 1.6?
Thank you for sharing very very much, i use the mp240 & i struggle with how slow the camerais to start & how slow to naviagte the images & how slow everything is in this overpriced camera
The M240 is really old, one must say. :D If you can believe the comments here, the M240 is still Leica's most reliable M camera even if its a bit slower. 👌
Thank you for posting. I too will stick to my film Leica MP and Leica M2. I sold my Fujifilm X100V because of similar problems you quoted with the M11. Always chose higher shutter speed; autofocus unreliable; wouldn't allow software update; rear screen image so different to final picture which always seemed to come out too dark; rubbish in low light ; settings randomly change in my camera bag so I end up missing shots because I wasn't sure what the problem was in the field.etc etc. I am amazed that the problems I thought were unique to the X100V are also present in the M11.The film images I get with Leica are amazing and if I want digital I will just use my iPhone which was much better than X100V in most cases anyway. Digital photography has become so fashionably over sharp and over lightroomed I am much happier sticking with grain, soft images and imperfection. Cheers and regards.
Oh wow, it seems like you had the X100V equivalent of my M11. lol You're encountering a lot of issues that I've never heard of with an X100V. However, it's always the problem with RUclips test channels that it feels like many issues are swept under the rug. I'm going to go back to shooting more analog film now. Somehow, it's still the best photography experience you can have.
According to Daniel Milnor film Leica's break too. He said only his M4-2 didn't break. Would have maybe bought a Leica lens, but then somebody wrote about the Summicron the thing you generally hear about the Industar-50 3.5.
@@arneheeringa96 Yes it's true that anything old may break down be it a vintage car or a film camera. My old M6 had issues which is why I changed to a MP and was lucky enough to get a mint refurbished M2. The point is that for general operation in the field the analog experience is more controlled with no surprises. Also whatever suits you and you enjoy the most is the important thing. Cheers!
M11 is a joke
There's not much more to add to that for now. :D
That sucks big time, sorry to hear about your frustrating experience with the M11. But great to hear you can return it! Have you found a successor camera for your professional work already?
Yes, I was pleased that Calumet took back the camera without any problems. Leica can't guarantee to provide me with a flawless M11, so I preferred to get my money back. Since my wife really wanted an X-T5 and already had a bunch of new XF lenses, I bought an X-H2 so that we can now use the same system. While the camera may not be quite as much fun, it is at least much more reliable and error-free. 👌
I had a m10-r and really enjoyed the experience. It was to expensive, so I ended up selling it. I ended up going with a Nikon D810 for the optical view finder. The experience has been similar to the Leica m10r in allot of ways. The only down side is the size and no range finder patch for manual focus lenses, but I’m really enjoying going back to a dslr after like 12 years of shooting mainly fujifilm cameras.
That's why the first batch of a major re-design or new product is a gamble, with often times a lot of growing pains. In the case of Leica, the upcoming M11-P is the one to go for...
At the end, every product is a gamble; however, Leica should actually get it right after 17 years of digital cameras. Well, according to forums, the M11 Monochrome still has the freeze issue, so one can assume that the M11-P won't be any different if they don't find the root of the problem by then.
That’s true. And they spend a lot of time between M iterations. So one would expect enough time to test it out and identify the bugs 🫣. For now I will hold on to my M10-P 😇
The M11 is a design disaster, full of Japanese implementations that totally destroy the rangefinder philosophy, it is not only expensive it is a rip-off.
It may even be that the M11 is in this unfinished state because Leica has not collaborated enough with Panasonic. I can't remember hearing about problems with Lumix cameras. Even if there are any, all decisions made by Leica are their own. So if someone has destroyed the philosophy, it was Leica themselves.
I own a Q3 and had zero issues with it after the last firmware update. I really like to shoot with the Q3. That said, you can’t compare a Q3 with an M11. Totally different hardware and software. It would surprise me if the Q3 has hardware designed by panasonic/lumix. The SL2 is the same camera as the Lumix S1R. But it’s all speculation. But thanks to your video I am nog going to step up to M11.
Hey there! That's awesome to hear you're loving your Q3 after the firmware update. You're right, the Q3 and M11 are totally different beasts with different hardware and software. If the Q3 suits your needs, stick with it and keep capturing those great shots!
Thank you for this eye-opening report. If I may suggest the opposite example. I have an Olympus OM-D EM-1, first generation, that rolled in its bag under three cars on a motorway. The screen and one of the lenses were broken, the rest still works. Manual focusing quick and pin-point precise. Never any software glitch. Autofocus famously quick as well. Amazing sharpness. But M43 format and 16 MP only. I’ve been looking for a replacement for years, dismissed Fujis as toys, finally considering Leica for their supposed ruggedness. Now I’m beginning to think that I’ll stick with the Oly for decades...
The good old Olympus cameras, built like tanks. If Fujis cameras seem too toy-like for you, it's going to be challenging. Perhaps the new Nikon ZF might be worth a look. I've received so many comments about every Leica model having some kind of issue... maybe sticking with Olympus is the way to go.
Great video. And your points are on point. A leica fanboy myself. Had some freezes with the m11 but the q3 omg, +20 freezes on a wedding day. Now one of my sl2s is in for repair after a firmware update. 🤪😱
20 freezes damn :o and I thought the M11 was bad, but this is absolutely unusable. I hope they can also fix the SL2s.
I didn't have a single freeze on my 5D MkII in like 15 years of shooting more than 500.000 photos - what is wrong with that Leica??
I would constantly worry about freezes with that "premium" camera.
Wow why are you still buying Leica? I have had my d850 with over 300k shutter cycles in 5yrs and never had a freeze or over expose issue.
Sad that their latest and greatest has so many issues. I loved my M8 but it occasionally froze. My M9 and M Monochrom (new Leica sensor repairs) have performed well with zero freezing so far and no issues with my SL Type 601. I would be very hesitant to buy a new Leica now days and kind of prefer the older, more simple models.
The camera shop around the corner once said that the M10 froze because of the gyroscope sensor when the camera was tilted. lol Yes, I can definitely understand that the simpler models were probably better. The more features, the more complicated and error-prone it becomes.
I also have a Type 601 and M monochrom and use them with confidence, no problems with hardware or software. I don’t have any reason to get Leica’s newest and greatest. Cost is a major consideration, but I’m also satisfied with the cameras in use and image quality.
That's a sad shit that 10k camera freezes up. Never happens to XT-5
I've had Fuji cameras for almost 10 years and never had a freeze with them... that made it even more annoying :D
Thank you! You confirmed my suspicions again. I love range finders and looked for one that was produced not too long ago or new. Based on my experience with Leica, any electronic item is a risk. Often you have to pay ridiculous sums for repair, or you are told that the camera is beyond repair. There was no way I could be persuaded to buy a digital Leica M. I loved your drawing of the “horse”. At the time, there were 2 Leica film cameras: MA and MP. No electronics. I bought the MP because of the light meter, which I can ignore. No M6 for me!
Hey there! Glad to hear I confirmed your suspicions. 😄 Leica film cameras like the MA and MP are classics for a reason - no electronics to worry about, and they're built like tanks. You made a wise choice with the MP, and I totally get why you'd steer clear of the digital M series. Keep rocking that analog photography!
I’ve been fortunate in not having any problems with my M11 but I suspect that’s just because of the settings I use. I must use the camera in a way that makes it happy! The problem for potential purchasers is not knowing whether that will also be the case for them. Personally, if I hadn’t already bought it, I would probably buy it anyway because I’d want the newest Leica, but that may be me just justifying to myself my purchase. Suffice to say though, many people haven’t had a problem with their M11
Oh, that's really good that yours works. 👌 Many have also said that they had problems at first and then the 1.6 update improved things. Leica's repair service also mentioned that settings play a big role in whether there are freezes or not. It looks like you've chosen the right ones. 👍
can you explain your typical settings when the freezing occurs. Or at least how you usually shoot ( high iso, high fps etc.?)@@TheBigNegative-PhotoChannel
Interesting to hear about these issues... I thought Leica would do it better. At least their analog cameras are well made... (if i dont look at the 1/1000s of my Barnack and my M2 :D )
Actually, I thought so too. I had been using the M6 for a few years and thought that since Leica aims to be a premium brand, they would also deliver premium quality with their digital cameras. But unfortunately, no.
really good B-roll and well put together video! having followed your updates on Instagram it really did put me off upgrading to the M11!
Thank you, Goughie. My Instagram will be much more boring now without the regular M11 errors. LOL With the X-H2, I've only found one bug so far, and it's rather negligible. 😄
Freeze victim ✅
Yep. I hope Leica takes a look at the camera instead of selling it to the next person.
I think a lot of the issues that you have happened with the earlier releases.I have had my M11 for 4 months now and have no issues, other than one random freeze before the last update. Sorry to hear of your experiences. I really love mine ;)
I'm genuinely happy for you. I've already heard both in the comments. Many have freezes, and many work well from 1.6 onwards. It felt like my M11 was the worst M11 Leica ever sold. lol Then I hope yours continues to remain error-free.
After 6 month using my M11P i had no camera freezing at all. The problem come for the live view. I never use live view to verified my shots. I know they are good. Keep it simple.
No matter how good a photographer is, the camera should work regardless of how it's used. If Leica includes the Live View function, then it should work properly. However, as I also mentioned in the video, this doesn't apply to all models. But you can see from all the comments that I'm not the only one experiencing issues, and the M11 is not the only camera with problems. 👌
I'll stick with my M240 and Q2 for now.
It's really good to wait a few years until Leica has ironed out all the errors in the software.
That overexposure thing: How tight - or loose - are focus and aperture ring on the lenses you use? Do you accidentally open the aperture when focussing? Please don't get it wrong, I'm just asking. However, I gonna bet the motherboard has a permanent glitch in the matrix.
I have 2 Voigtländer lenses with quite well-adjusted aperture rings. So, I can assure you that this is not the problem. The overexposure issues only started after the camera was repaired by Leica. It's more likely a metering setting that got messed up.
What a nightmare. I feel for you.
Thanks, the M11 has been returned, and I never have to be annoyed about it again.
You cured my desire for a leica 🤣
Haha, I'm glad I could save you from that Leica temptation! 😄
I am stickig to my trusty Leica Q for now!
Absolutely, you don’t always need to upgrade if you’re happy with what you have. 👌
Leica as a hole is so overated nonense, and yes i have M11
Hehe, I think anyone who is honest with themselves and can objectively judge cameras will say that about Leica. In the end, though, no one else builds rangefinder cameras like Leica, and then you end up buying them anyway.
Leica quality, which has been steadily declining since the M10, even the former domain of lens production, has plummeted. In terms of prices compared to the competition, they can no longer be taken seriously.
I've also heard that some people had to return their new Summilux lenses because aperture rings weren't properly mounted. They can certainly ask for high prices, but then they need to deliver accordingly, which it seems they're currently massively failing to do.
There is no excuse from Leica to give its customers this kind of problem, especially given the high cost of it. I have seen photos from both M and Q cameras. To be honest, none of them blew me away. It made me appreciate more of the images taken by my Nikon and Fuji. Well, some may disagree, as this is something very subjective. Sure. Who wouldn't want to hold a beautiful camera? But if photography is the goal, it makes no difference who makes the camera. Can you imagine when you want to catch a photo on the street and your camera freezes? I would never buy an M even though I can afford it. I have had enough headache from my BMW in the past. I know I know, this is not a fair comparison. For now, I would stick with German beer.🤣
Yes, that's true. When working result-oriented, it's more important to have a good reliable camera. It really doesn't make a difference whether it's Leica, Fuji, or Nikon. Nowadays, you can't buy a bad camera... well, almost not. 😅 Nowadays, even the best German companies live off their old quality image. I see it this way; I could use an M11 for free for a year. 🤷♂️
Update .... never ever again ... that's twice I've been let down be a Leica ... M240 & M11 ... sold the lot at a HUGE loss ... BTW they don't hold their value at all!!!
I really feel sorry for you. Fortunately, I was able to return my camera as a warranty case. I also made a list of sales losses and value retention. Percentage-wise, they hold up well, but of course, you lose less money with a cheaper camera despite higher losses.
That sounds like a so called "Monday morning" product (like we use to say in German, there is no 100%, can also happen to Leica). I suggest to ask for an exchange, I am pretty sure you will get one, talk to the people in the Leica Store next to you (mine is in Zürich, the team there is awesome, a dream, you are king as customer). I shot a long time with the M10, I swapped it into an SL2-S (also using the M lenses by adapter, my solely SL lens is the APO-Summicron-SL 2/75) but I will get an M11-P as soon as it fits in the budget.
According to the comments I receive, this happens every Monday at Leica. 😄 The customer support has always been very friendly, that's something you have to give Leica credit for. If you're getting an M11-P, it's best not to do it on a Monday.
You should have titled the video The Big Negative! What a shame. Makes me almost feel lucky only having hardware problems with Leica. Almost...well, for the price, no, not at all.
Some people have problems, and some don't. Some, like me, end up with a model that simply doesn't work at all. It's a matter of luck with Leica. 🤷♂️ It's too much thrill for the price, in my opinion.
This is not looking good for LIECA , not good. My Old SONY does not have these issues. I wanted an M11 Monochrome , but wow ...this is bad.
Actually, not only does your old Sony not have any of these problems, but generally, most cameras don't have these issues anymore. Maybe you'll have luck with an M11 Monochrome. 🤷♂️
I had Leica R models in the 90ies, they just broke down all the time. The R8 was the worst, I got a new one, after 2 weeks it stopped working, got another, also bad, and another that made long scratch lines on the films, the lenses was great, sold it all, after that never Leica again, but Fuji does what I need.
Oh, I didn't think that Leica would have been so lax with quality control during the film era. That absolutely should not happen. I can well understand why you didn't want to buy Leica anymore, and Fuji is certainly more than capable of competing with Leica.
The flaws happend, beacause you are not using an original overpriced tumb rest and it is obviously upset with the 3D printed one. There is a special intelligently sophisticated sensor on the camera, which instantly spot the nogo equipment . Thats pure german perfection!
Haha, that must have been it! The camera has a sensor for penny pinchers like me and is looking for a new owner. LOL
Call me crazy but lots of people who have he black M11 have these issues from what Im seeing on RUclips? Also I've noticed with voiltlander lenses? I have the silver one and Ive never had a freeze or any of the issues your describing
It's possible that a certain production batch was used in black M11s. Or maybe fewer people have a silver one and therefore encounter fewer issues. :D It could also be that there are fewer issues with certain lenses, as the camera reads the 8-bit code that Voigtländer lenses don't have. In the end, even Leica themselves don't know where the problem lies.