What Coal Miners Think About Climate Change
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- Опубликовано: 6 мар 2022
- Coal miners and climate activists regularly face off in heated and sometimes violent confrontations in the coal mining towns of Australia’s Queensland. On one hand, Australia is the world’s largest exporter of coal, and on the other, it’s becoming a social pariah in a world going more green. Filmmaker and Environmental activist Kim Nguyen goes deep within Australia’s coal country to meet miners trying to preserve coal towns, aboriginal activists trying to stop the Adani Carmichael coal mining project, and a horseman infamous for assaulting climate protestors. All to ask- how do you get coal miners to give up that one thing their livelihood depends on?
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“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it.”
~Upton Sinclair
I had this quote (or some version of it) kicking around in my head during the video so thank you for reminding me!
@Free Thinker you people are such cowards. Just say the n word. We know it’s what you mean.
@Free Thinker sad troll
@Free Thinker Anyone ever tell you that you think too highly of yourself? Hard to even take your username seriously when you side with fossil fuel barons.
This Sinclair quote also applies to gov't bureaucrats mismanaging everything from homelessness to green jobs.
Coal miners aren't scientist. But they are smart enough to know when "climate science" is corrupted by money from foreign & domestic governments in order to reach a previously agreed-upon conclusion.
Regular people all over this planet have learned to stop trusting government officials, the press, and so-called journalist.
The trick is not to make the mistake Britain made in the 1980s by abandoning mining communities with no alternative employment or training and letting the towns decay
its happened in PA as well, once the coals gone they skip town
That wasn't a mistake, it was very intentional.
It is honestly not that hard, it's just that government assistance/social safety nets have been villainized these past few decades. Not to mention the effective propaganda campaign that fossil fuel companies have waged against any meaningful action to combat climate change.
Also, nuclear power supported by other renewable energy sources should be the future, not fossil fuel.
Towns like that, that gravitate around just one industry, are unviable.
I think that’s the problem and the worry coal miners have. Biden took out the pipeline without giving the workers an alternative job choice that pays similar. Coal miners are afraid of waking up and losing their livelihood. Governments need to invest in clean energy jobs if they want to push this transition. Then again it comes down to even more government spending and taxpayers have a different opinion on which is more of a dire issue they want their politicians to focus on
I doubt that if each coal miner was offered a renewable energy job with an easier workload, higher pay, and better benefits that they'd still be so attached to coal.
Its a fear of the unknown but most importantly heritage, heritage is massive in mining communities
@@SCP--ck5ip I don't trust you. The second we look away your gunna snap my neck. (Referring to his name and profile pic for those who are not familiar).
@@UnitedGaming420
All I have to do is wait, all you need to do is blink....
Checkmate
You can't just go from beating rocks to working on computers. Also what about the people training to work clean energy already why do they have to wait
@@anthonymoney9423
I hate that I have to say this, but there will be alot of green energy jobs. The entire world is going to be investing on it
Bravo to the reporter. His transparency was really refreshing. Giving a breakdown of his previous work history and his background so the viewer could get more understanding of where he was coming from and why was also a nice touch. Good stuff 👌
Actually, Journalists shouldn't be required to give out their private details, backgrounds and positions. They're there to give out the news.
Do you care how the Author of the last book you read votes?
@@stationorange From Creators who've been approached by Vice: Yes, they don't pay very well
@@stationorange I believe Louis Rossman was told he would make less than what Australia's minimum wage is currently
I was expecting Appalachian accents instead I heard Aussie accents lol 🦘
"reporter"
lol
One takeaway is that these guys work in coal because there is no other alternative but for coal. But in these small tiny towns that are only there BECAUSE of coal, of course, there is no other source of industry. Good reporting.
@@roberthicks1612 what if that civilization is destroying the same land that civilization lives on. Does the current people ignore the effects they’ll leave on their future children and legacy they leave? Why not sustain the civilization instead of destroying itself and find an alternative to survive and not kill the future residents of that same civilization
@@audiowithdrawl5948 Yes, there are a few third world countries that destroy the land they need to sustain themselves but that is because they are not allowed to use fossil fuels and such and use methods that would protect the land. Advance countries like the US and most of Europe do not follow the practices that destroy the land. Farmers know how to protect their land in ways that will keep it productive for centuries. Many times, governments, not knowing how to farm, try to tell farmers their job, and it ends up ruining the ability of the land to provide for the people.
It is really stupid to think that people that depend on farms are going to destroy those farms for a single harvest or something of that nature. My family has been farming the same land for generations and it is more productive now than ever before.
Coal is not renewable, but bio fuels use the same starting materials and are renewable. Using technology, we can use algae to produce bio diesel and algae bodies, which can replace coal, but instead of having to wait millions of years, we can do it in weeks. Instead of letting our waste destroy the environment, we can use it to feed the algae.
Socialism can not do things like that because it requires that you turn over control of things like that to politicians that have no idea what they are doing. Capitalism can find the solutions to problems, while socialist big government can only create problems we need more solutions to.
@@roberthicks1612 farming is fine, fossil fuel usage is the destruction part.
@@audiowithdrawl5948 How do you think they farm? with horses? They use fossil fuels. Also the cost of transporting food and stuff to you with electric vehicles will be about 5 times the cost of doing it with fossil fuels.
@@roberthicks1612 bingo.. but that will never come into people's minds . They can't stop and think about what you're saying..how can they?we literally live in a world where 12-year-olds don't even know that a egg came from a f****** chicken and 16 yr teens that can't read an analog clock.
So many people in here missing the point. It is vital that you give all the families that are dependant on the coal industry for their livelihoods a worthy alternative instead of just closing mines down and calling them dumb. It also actually doesn't matter either if they believe in climate change or not, give these people a REAL alternative and we can all go further together.
First you have to prove that there is a need to get rid of coal. So far you have nothing but politicians claiming there is a need to give total power to china.
I agree that they need an alternative. We can't expect them to just stop mining coal and starve to death.
Let's say there's an alternative though. Same pay, same amount of work. People stick to what they know - just giving them an alternative isn't enough if they don't see an issue with that they're doing now.
A lot of these folks don't WANT alternatives, though, they want to preserve what they see as their way of life. There's not much alternative that would be appealing to someone who just genuinely wants the small coal-dependent community they grew up in to be successful the way it already is. The unfortunately reality is that coal usage needs to go away, and that IS going to cause some entire communities to disappear, communities that never would have existed in the first place if it weren't for the coal. We need to accept the reality that we can't offer a meaningful alternative in every instance, and sometime what we're asking of these folks is just sacrifice, plain and simple.
@@roberthicks1612 The only way you could believe that is if you don't believe the over 88,000 peer-reviewed papers on the subject. 100% of peer reviewed papers indicate climate change is occurring, according to a 2019 meta-analysis. According to the same sources, 99% of papers indicate that climate change is the result of human activity.
@@RamoArt "if they don't see an issue with that they're doing now." That is the entire problem. The alarmist claim there is a reason for them to stop BUT they can not prove it and they claim the proof will not show up for decades. The problem with THAT claim is that they have been making it for over a century and it has not happened yet.
I swear the coal miner who ran over a protestor with his horse is surprisingly the most moderate and sympathetic of all the coal miners interviewed lol. He believed in climate change, and said the only reason he works for coal/defends coal is because his livelihood depends on it.
Yeah it's rough for these guys
My dad used to teach in Whyalla which lost a lot of work from the steel industry and man, it was a miserable place...
What sort of idiot would believe climate change is made by man but then say he depends on the coal industry
One of the most difficult components of this problem, is that these towns were usually only very small places before industry moves in. Therefore, a large majority of the people working in these areas have usually migrated within a reasonably short amount of time, and are trapped by debt, and lack of alternative local opportunity. I personally believe the best policy is one of transition - stop encouraging coal expansion and the migration of people while at the same time stimulating other industry elsewhere.
So you're saying we need to fund existing coal plants for the purpose of efficiency
The professionalism of the reporter was outstanding. He has been living his life supporting a cause and he’s talking to people that don’t believe in the basic truth of it.
They're also probably getting influenced by their company otherwise they wouldn't sound so confident or they don't wanna believe it out of fear for their salary disappearing.
What I struggled with a little bit was the line between journalist and activist. I don’t know if you can be both of those things and still be impartial/unbiased when reporting.
@@RotchildFrancoisJr can b tough ,but possible
@@RotchildFrancoisJr there’s nothing to be impartial or not impartial about when it comes to basic truisms. It’s either you accept science or you don’t.
@@RotchildFrancoisJr Well that's why he's a great journalist and asks others mainly the pro-coal party about their opinions, even though they are opposites of eachother and some spread false information he still let's them finish what they want to tell. He even showed the side as why so many towns are pro-coal because they're dependent on it as a town.
Showing boths sides of the coin without shoving his own opinions down people's throat, the only side he showed of his activism was his stance on the problem and his history with it.
So what makes you think he's impartial if he treated everyone equally and gave everyone a voice? Not agreeing with someone's point doesn't automatically make you impartial, in most cases people are just misinformed
I worked in the coal mining industry as an engineer, production supervisor, and project manager mostly in southwestern pennsylvania (greene county). I'm now a nurse. It's a feast or famine industry that is dying. It was fun and I miss the hell out of those guys. But never again for me.
I'm trying to tinto nursing. Any advice?
Thank you! What you're doing now may not be as fun but you're helping people which I hope is more rewarding in the end❤️
@@batalorian7997 I'm also a nurse. Try to find a hospital with a "new grad" program of some kind. I went to a very small school and my clinicals were crap. A new grad program worked me up from 1 to 7 patients slowly. Really helped.
Also read the fine print. Part of that program was that I agreed to work for them for a year or two. If you happen to have a lawyer friend, ask them if this is actually enforceable (many places have policies or agreements of "do X or pay back Y," but lawyers can be pricey and most places won't take the time and money to make good on that threat. ;)
@@joshuawagner1149 never even considered that. I still have a long way to go before I get to think about new grad program. I still have to meet the prerequisites and hopefully get accepted into a nursing school
@@joshuawagner1149 still that was actually very helpful. Thank you
I grew up out in the bush, though I live in the city now. Seeing life going by in these communities makes me feel a little homesick. The way the houses are, the way the schools are. Even simple things, like the way businesses are set up. I can understand why they'd want to protect their way of life. These aren't bad people. They're people whose whole life depends on coal mining. No wonder that don't care about climate change: If we took away their industry, then they may as well have been ravaged by climate change in full force. For those who've lived in those places their whole lives it really would be the end of the world.
so the world should suffer because corporations placed a monopoly on these innocent people? you’re romanticizing something that is evil
Coal and coal miners aren’t the problem. The problem is greedy corporations.
This is why we need a system that can support people as they transition into a different career, otherwise they will always try to defend their livelihood at the cost of progress (or the planet), many industries are like this
I agree. Personally, I think universal incomes are the way to go. Not as some far left hair brain scheme but simply that jobs like coal mining, or manufacturing or fast food and other service industries will eventually be phased out, either by automation or because they are contributing to climate change. It just makes sense in consumer economies to continue consumer behavior, even when jobs are going to be harder to come by.
Yes exactly! the same argument applies to poaching too but people aren’t ready to confront that either
F the planet. I'm spending maybe 70 years on it. let the next guy deal with it. I'm the guy that burns my trash and dumps my used oil on the ground.
To be honest it doesn’t matter much if these people do defend their industry or not. Power doesn’t lie with them. They are used by power.
Hillary told guys like these that they can go code, one of the sparse good bits she managed to say during her clown show of a campaign
Coding is a job that often dishes out $100K with no college education right out the gate
But with folks like these it's not really about lack of alternatives but more about unwillingness to apply their minds, which is why Trump was elected to aptly represent them
The fact that corporations have such a strong influence on people's lives that they cant afford to do anything differently is horrible
Nothing to do with corporations it's people's lively hoods
@@ghostdriver5880 corporation MADE this people's livelihoods.
its not corporations, its tech development. Coal is no longer a good source of energy. Nothing will change that.
I work in the steel industry in the UK as an engineer, I am 24 and very clued into climate change, the main reasons which I take from this video is that people have no other source of good income in that area. Its a simular situation to the steel works in port Talbot which I work in, which produces alot of air pollution in the area. It is such a massive provider of high paid jobs that if it was to close or down size then the whole community would be impacted not just for the people who work at the plant.
As a farmer I can assure you that climate change is real. Unexpected rains, floods and heat are the challenges we as farmers are facing since last 4 years.these unexpected sudden changes are effecting the yield
Edit-: this is what I have observed
Geo engineering you sod
yield has been growing consistently. What climate models dont predict is tech adaptation.
The disbelief from old people that likely won't be alive to deal with the implications of CC is scary. They don't believe because that's how they made their livelihood.
It's really unfortunate that many of the people who have the ability to effect significant change as an individual, won't be alive to experience the consequences of their own inaction.
It is. Many of them see it as “as long as I don’t experience it in my lifetime who cares.” I think people are missing the bigger picture; it’s not about seeing it in your lifetime it’s about what your grandkids will see and what the future generations will see and experience. Imo I think just because you won’t be alive to see it so you’ll sleep well is selfish and greedy. Climate change will get to that point where the change is irreversible then future generations will suffer just bcuz the older generation did not want to act.
To make any kind of progress they had to be headstrong despite adverse circumstances, didn't they? When it's all over they'll expect to be forgiven.
@@tuckerbugeater you’re arguing an entire different point. I’m arguing the old generation dnt believe much in science and the ones who believe in it dnt care because they won’t see the ramifications of it in their lifetime.
@@tuckerbugeater surely there's a more productive way to spend your time than this
I'm West Australian "Born and bred" and I honestly hate how much our government is influenced by the coal industry and by people at least adjacent to climate change deniers.
I feel for the people in these towns who for generations have been miners, but we cant sacrifice our world so that some people want to keep their career or tradition.
I think sometimes the complete denial of climate change is a safety mechanism, people dont like being told they've been fighting just for things to end. The people in towns like Meekathara have been struggling already, taking away the mining income is a death sentence. So to stay alive they're just trying to ignore the inevitable end.
Hell in Meekathara we all were buying the majority of our groceries from a Coles Express petrol station because it was the only way to be able to afford bread, milk and pasta. The local shops were massively overpriced and were struggling to stay open due to loss of business and also from constant food thefts. It's a slow death they're already experiencing, they need to adopt to the idea of at least a secondary income source...
West Australia should be shifting to developing a Silicon Valley of sorts around one of these towns, upgrade their infrastructure, train technicians, engineers and scientists, develop new technology, get CSIRO involved and private funding to start silicon chip fabrication and lithium batteries. Start the shift now, rather than waiting for the day the mines actually close
Same thing happened in many communities that were only sustained by logging and the saw mills that were needed.
It's not even about preserving their careers and mining traditions, because its a delusion to think its still possible. Coal is just not even economically viable anymore, its been long beaten by the alternatives.
@@salahad-din4114
You are wrong on a number of things:
Green energy, particularly wind and solar are now cheaper than building and operating a traditional power plant. That has been known for awhile. Even Forbes admits it.
It's easy to say the green party lies. I notice you don't point out anything in particular.
Your sea energy comment just seems asinine. I don't know of anyone claiming that a sea turbine can run an entire country.
Literally ten seconds of googling debunks everything you have typed. You should try it rather than depending on whatever sources of disinformation you are relying on now.
People aren't taking the word of governments. They are taking the word of the overwhelming majority of climate scientists and experts in the renewable energy field.
in the USA our coal belt in the Appalachian Mountain's has been dying for like 30-40 years, there are less than 50,000 jobs in the entire industry (miners, management, corporate) yet still Republicans (FYI screw the Democrats to! both suck) use them as props in their campaign. their towns are dead or dying, Opiates are the new moonshine there and there is no recovery coming....ever. they'd have to strike gold for mining to return. it's sad but the world has done this for ever. unfortunately their way of life will die, and the only thing they can do is prepare their children to be what the economy is currently hiring. unfortunately many are uneducated hillbillies that indoctrinate their families from birth to be completely backwards & willfully ignorant of the wider world
Hate to break it to you but your misinformation is 5 to 10 years old. The problem is not whether renewables can power cities or countries, the problem is energy storage. A problem that is being tackled. Look up the Tesla energy storage solution for Victoria which once had rolling blackouts using legacy power plants.
It's ironic that you mention Scotland. It shows the depth of the misinformation that you have swallowed and are now regurgitating. Scotland saw 97 percent of its energy needs met by renewable sources in 2020 lol.
As for your personal observation of the ocean... I think it's best if I don't speak to your powers of observation.
Wow what an awesome piece, would love to see some regular follow ups with the same legends now that the LNP are out of power. Plenty have thought of the idea to rehabilitate so many mines across Queensland but to do it as a transition piece and to try and repair Country, well that is a Vision, would be great to see it happen. I hope the relationships you have made stay active for a long time Kim, thank you :)
The best argument against coal miners that don't want to lose coal (and they don't for a very valid reason mind you) is that governments should have paid training programs for miners to learn how to build and maintain renewable energy sources. We will always need more energy, and it will always need to be maintained. Why not train these people who are obviously very hard working people to do this job and pay them to learn? Market it as both a safer and healthier job that has no chance of being phased out? It's a win win for everyone.
Yeah, it’s not like Australia has sunlight or anything…
Solar is a scam
Solar panels are very expensive, and only last 10 years or so, same goes for wind turbines. I don't know why we just don't use fission reactors.
@@thathondacivicat3am665 yeah solar panels have to be rebuilt every 10 years thats way more costly than literally operating an atomic reactor not to mention the opportunity cost of are way smaller for solar. Solar panels are way easier accessible than fission reactors, not that sluggish when it comes to new developements and funding in solar literally has decreased because it is too good for decentralized energy production.
The reason isnt efficiency the reason is it becomes harder to justify and manage one energy provider you have to pay when a decentralized network makes a lot more sense with solar.
It's not possible to base the future of solar energy on the current technology. Since 1960 solar panels have gone from 14% efficiency to almost 50% as measured in capture of watts per square meter of sunlight's available energy. The cost has dropped over time as well, not as dramatically as the efficiency has increased per panel, about 13%, but if you do factor that efficiency in then it cost MANY TIMES less per kilowatt hour today. Longevity is also increasing. Technology is always on the move. Storage technology is also improving all the time.
Meanwhile Australia is in a horrific drought, the fires were devastating, and climate change is at the root of that. I worry about automation taking jobs all the time, and no you're not going to teach someone who's been mining for 25-30 years and teach them to code, I get that. So there honestly HAS to be public support for those displaced by new technologies, honestly in all sectors. But there will be jobs in sustainable energy production as well, from manufacture to installation to maintenance to the science behind it. And personally I'm a proponent of thorium reactors for thermal generation, at least until that long-awaited fusion breakthrough happens.
@@PM-im8nq Solar energy is not a scam. I have them myself and it's to easiest way to generate energy without a huge investment or nuisance
These are the exact same arguments we were making in high school 25 years ago. I was raised in Queensland and have very strong feelings regarding the natural beauty of Western Queensland. There is a solution, we just need to have civil conversations, like you have here, in order to deliver a future that is not beholden to Coal Mines. I sincerely appreciate the people that worked in the mines who want a better future too. Thank you for your work! I know how dangerous it can be to have a different opinion in Australia, let alone, Western Queensland.
Kim, you're doing a great job. We need to stop the mining, but we also need to provide alternatives for all the miners too. We can't close their mines and leave them to pick up the pieces. Hopefully, we can accomplish both asap
Could work to make coal factories into bio gas factories.
Why do we gave to close down mines?
and we need to find something to replace the amount of income to Australia coal brings, since coal is like $350 a ton.
@@madsvigan2898 these arent factories they are mines
@@kaiwhitehouse812 still need a refinery some where
this is the problem when you base your entire town on one industry - if the industry dies, so does the town.
I actually did work in the coal industry, in the UK, at a time when "clean coal" and carbon capture looked like it could provide the sustainable future. You certainly never found such hardline polarised attitudes in the industry in Britain, indeed there were many, myself included who thought without a genuinely effective way to mitigate carbon emissions, the industry had no real future. In the end the mine closed and the carbon capture powers station was never built. The person making this video has made a very important step, as Desmond Tutu, I think, said "if you wish for peace, don't talk to your friends, talk to your enemies", this is similar in a different context.
carbon capture and storage systems have always been woefully inefficient, unfortunately.
@@leftistadvocate9718 Yes, that's proven to be so. We still don't seem anywhere near to an effective and economical CCS power station. I personally don't think we'll ever see one, we need to move on with renewables. I often wonder about the potential for geothermal; there is a vast resource of heat down there, even at UK coal mining depths, down to about 1000 yards, it was significantly hotter than surface temperature. When I worked in the mine I began to wonder if the heat, not the coal, was the long term answer for energy. I wonder what we would need to tap it effectively.
Yes your problem for all of us is China. In the USA the coal fired plants emit one quarter what China does. So you can clean up your country and your Nations all over the world but China will still be the culprit. When the power plant in the Ukraine that melted and sent radioactive material to the West. There was a question as to what happened because Russia wasn't saying it occurred. No one today is talking about China they produce more emissions than all of us combined especially when our plants emissions are one quarter of theirs.
@@HellNoMoreBiden per capita china pollutes less than America. it's a country of over a billion. comparing total pollution of each country is an unreasonable way of measuring it
@@leftistadvocate9718 How is what you think even remotely true?
China, with more than 10,065 million tons of CO2 released.
United States, with 5,416 million tons of CO2.
I think this documentary makes pretty clear that it's a waste of time to try to persuade individual coal miners. Pressure on politicians is the way to go and then giving these fellas an alternative.
My takeaway was that it is vital to talk to these people, not to persuade them but to show that "Greenies" are listening and not just forcing a world of change.
Well I understand them in a sense where some of them know the amount of coal going around it does affect the climate but where else do they go? Minimum wage jobs? A lot of them need a transition into clean energy or else they’re out of a job to support their families. I think it’s the government responsibility to create these jobs for these coal miners to turn to.
I would actually make the miners talk to people from around the world who have had their life's affected by climate change
@@baddreams0919 but what's the benefit? these guys are not to blame; given their own situation, they can hardly think objectively about climate change. It is too much to demand that they sabotage their own livelihoods. They need new jobs, new perspectives and then their opinions might catch up with science.
@@christianfrohlich3835 something that surprises me is that the government hasnt said like: ok, we're gonna close all coal plants, but here you have a solar panel factory for you to work at. Even better we are gonna make some deals with the factory so your wages can be better in exchange for lower taxes for the company.
One of the hardest things to come to grips with is nothing truly lasts forever, at least not in its original form. Change may not come all at once but it will come and you need to be ready for it or at least accept it. Whole industries will die. New ones will arise. Some for good, some for ill. Some will benefit, some won't.
You have a battery operated vehicle with components from Russia. We don't have enough solar to run our businesses and homes so how are you going to charge a battery operated car? With Coal. The emissions of these coal plants in the west emit one quarter of the emissions a plant does in China. So to put all these people out of work when you need to tell China to straighten up their act.
@@HellNoMoreBiden As I said, some for good. Some for Ill.
But to your point. . no. Coal is a dead end, I'm sorry. It's not coming back. At most we are seeing the last desperate gasps in some areas and maybe a brief resurgence in Europe during the Ukraine War.
But it's done. It's on its way out.
So how do we power up electric cars? Yes, fine. Some fossil fuel powerplants are going to be used but more and more of our power will come from hydro, wind turbines, solar, and thermal. Nuclear still provides a lot of power, too.
@@Mahbu not in my lifetime. If your 30 and live to 70 then it's possible. I'm speaking of entirely now and nothing from coal will take absolutely that long
Great video! Those conversations are important and it’s good to see someone taking initiative and having them!
They're not thinking of climate change, they're thinking of their jobs
Yeah they are being completely selfish. They are also uneducated so they don’t understand science.
@@erwina4738 I wouldn’t say selfish per sé, these people haven’t known anything but the mines. If there are no alternatives they are going to lose their way of life. I’m all for energy transition ASAP, but there should be good paying alternatives for these people.
@@erwina4738 well. In their perspective they’re too old to go back to school to learn or earn a degree. Their families have been coal miners for decades and it’s all they know. After high school join the coal mines support yourself and your family. They’re afraid of waking up and finding the government shutting down their livelihood. They’re just asking for an alternative job that they can transition to and I believe it is a very fair proposition. If we as a society want this clean energy we need to support it all the way and allow this transition to happen.
The greedy people are the ones ignorant that climate change doesn’t exist.
@@erwina4738 crypto in your name but you're calling other people selfish and uneducated... Lol
@@Neockoen Well, they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps, learn a skill, and find a new job while they have the chance instead of making execuses.
It really doesn't matter what they think about it. This dying industry has to go. We should take care of the people who lose their jobs, but it's well past time to accept objective reality and reorient energy policy accordingly.
Big "Green" wants the coal industry to die. $$$
@@X2LR8 Big "Green" or Big Coal is just big money that will win either way but at least one isn't polluting. The business is profitable. It's a business of energy. Big "Coal" is investing in Big "Green". They're not dumb. They know they will die out eventually as Green energy would be easier and have 0 pushback. They still however have billions invested in coal mines and will squeeze out any last profits they can. You also don't understand that big money will win, not big green or big coal. A coal company has nothing stopping it from moving its billions into green energy. They'll be Big "Green" in no time. Their main directive is profit, you are not their priority and they do not have any allegiance to coal , only to profits.
@@jonathanvillegas7570
Thank u! This is exactly how they will operate. Maximize profits as much as possoble. However possible and whereever possible. Period....
Keep making profits. Move all assets to futurr technology in the Energy sector.
.
No you quit your job and you find something else to do that's what you should do. Coal is an important resource and it serves a great need. Far as you know electricity comes from the switch on the wall that's as far as you've gotten into it. Oil and coal runs this country you're not going to light up NYC with windmills.
@@williammcguire5685 "Natural gas, nuclear, and hydropower consistently generate more than 90% of New York's electricity"
What the video didn't really make clear is that most of the people working in the mines in central QLD are not living in those little towns, they are driving or flying in and staying in camps. Most of them don't care about the little towns and have no interest in moving out there. They want to live on the coast somewhere, and working in the mines affords a swankier lifestyle than working in the city does. You only have to look at places like Yeppoon or Mackay to see where all the money goes.
GREAT video again Vice. I appreciate the reporting, fantastic to get people to just open up and be honest. It is a part of the world I would have never had the chance to get a perspective from.
it seems like those miners are not at all used to talking about climate change. I think they're kinda surprising each other when some of them admit that they don't believe that climate change is fake, or even that industrial activity has something to do with it.
I also think it's interesting that coal miners on one hand feel a need to deny that coal burning has a climate impact, but on the other hand these guys, who mine coal with massive machinery, whose families for many generations have mined coal, know better than almost anybody else how absolutely massive the global scale of coal mining is. yet they're supposed to pretend that it's ridiculous that burning all that coal changes the atmosphere in significant ways. they would know better than to heat their house with an indoor coal fire with no chimney, but when it's out in the atmosphere, the combustion gases are supposed to do nothing regardless of the amount?
When you live in a small town with one industry, you live in an echo chamber.
@@bipslone8880 Its the same in the rural farming community i live in , there still draining peatlands ,draining bogs ,ripping up hedges , vandalising woodland for their `biofuel` generators . in the midst of a climate catastrophe and wildlife crisis . The countryside is an industrialised sprayed tilled mess mostly used as overstocked cattle lots degrading soil terribly .
It's all about self preservation for these guys in these towns but there fighting a losing battle because the pendulum has swung and will keep on swinging to green energy.
owen okane somewhere early in this video, one of the coal people actually claims that the motivation of the anti-coal people is to destroy the coal people's way of life. I thought that was pretty amazing.
@@Ass_of_Amalek They are not entirely wrong, and can find justification in many public statements of war in recent years from some rather numbskull politicians who have inherited the baton of the 'green movement'. I mean, even Biden specifically said he wanted to directly end every coal job, even though that makes no sense as the POTUS has not constitutional authority to even make such moves, but it was good politics and it fed the machine of both parties and both viewpoints.
As long as people are fighting the binary war, no one has to actually DO anything to transition or innovate anything new in the energy industry.
I always kind of laugh and also feel bad when miners say you cant shut down coal, that you need it. The whale oil industry used to be collossal before oil and synthetic sources ruined them. We didnt keep whale oil around though, we moved to something better, more sustainable.
It's going to be cold in Europe next winter when Putin turns off your gas. You won't survive without coal.
@@coal_man You're not really disproving his point. The energy revolution is happening. I've read that China is hoarding lithium and has been pushing hard in the renewable energy sector. They don't want to be energy dependent on other countries and neither does any other country with defense on its mind. And as a bonus, it'll cut down on emissions which is better for everyone.
@@dangerbirb4981 have u seen the destruction lithium mining causes by any chance
@@Cuzzyrorydriftmansilviasx have you seen the destruction mining anything causes by any chance?
@@walterhumanolo5586 sure have coal miner myself and its disgusting still not as bad as lithium
Coal: Kids out of high school in the coal towns are basically handed a life at 18 that includes a large progressive salary structure, union benefits, housing, (depending on location), and a great pension. Who is going to compete with that? IF, ( a big IF), society plans on replacing coal, you are going to have to understand exactly what is being taken away. I would be interested to hear how many miners own their own homes, cars...etc..... Look at the presenter...no assets and a dodgy future.
Turns out most lower-class people aren't willing to go hungry and potentially die for the benefit of people they don't know who largely live in big cities, who'd have guessed?
It's a sucky situation, on either side. I'm not gonna lie, it hurts to think about both. On some level this is a microcosm of status warfare, as thinking about the future is a luxury only allowed to those with means to care. This is also painful in the medical field, for the lower-education technicians and nurses. It's hard job, you don't get paid a lot, and people are losing their livelihoods from the cost (in the USA, that is) of the services you're the face of. It's a unique kind of pain that cuts like nothing else, because it's a job you do for people's benefits, but you see it hurting them all the same and you can't do anything about it.
Just wanted to add, you all having a chat will change things. I grew up in coal mining towns in Appalachia in the United States. The coal mining industry was taken away without anything else being brought in. You cannot expect people to change unless industry is brought in prior to help them sustain their lives. People will choose health over coal, but you have to give them that choice!
There's nothing else there for them to do in these small coal mining towns nothing but coal they can move and find other sorts of work they sound like imbeciles who want to fight the future
the help you're suggesting for these people, unfortunately, is socialism. They know that's bad.
@@twagoner21 The vast majority of people that think socialism is bad aren't even able to correctly define what it is.
I agree with this in principle, but it should be said that it's not really that simple. People have to pay attention, be ready to accept change, and not be swayed by emotional rhetoric. I understand that's not always easy, but coal mining communities have not necessarily acted rationally in this regard. Coal is slowly dying in Appalachia. That's not because it's being "killed" some "agenda" of "haters". People who make that claim attribute more power to haters than they actually have. Coal is dying because of market forces--everyone outside of coal country wants cleaner energy, and customers are going to get what they want. Coal jobs are dying even faster because of automation on top of those market forces.
If politician #1 acknowledges the reality that coal is dying and suggests spending some money on retraining and to assisting communities in economically diversifying, and politician #2 promises they're going to "bring back coal", the impulse may be to accept what politician #2 says, but the answer (to the extent that politicians have any effectiveness at all) is to go with option #1.
@@taragnor 100% true. Australia has so many social welfare and support programs that the majority of Americans that "hate Socialism" would think that Australia is a socialist country. If they could define what it was.
What I'm observing is that when you got entire towns dependant on one major, reliable source of income for hundreds of years, there better be something just as reliable available to replace it. Plus you've got generations programmed (for good and bad) for one particular way of living. So it's no wonder why they're resistant. Communities have been abandoned rather than supported. Same is happening to disabled people like myself. We've always had to rely on other people to keep us alive. Before social security, families either took care of us or abused us. Now, it's the taxpayers and maybe family. But it's painful when I hear that we're supposed to not have any assistance because we're lazy. Like coal miners are not stupid or inconsiderate. We've got a system that has room for improvement and I'm not sure how it'll happen
This was both entertaining and subtly insightful. The journalist and the team did a great job at humanizing the other side. I was especially taken back by the truthfulness and gentle nature of the man who rode his horse into the crowd. At the end of the day in order to make a change an alternative industry needs to first be established in these communities as they fear that their way of life is directly under threat. This is once again the job of politicians and policy makers.
Productive activism is a boxing match rather than a street fight. You should be able to reach out and shake the other person’s hand in mutual respect. If you forget that your opponent is a human, you’ve already lost the debate.
Why aren't there subtitles? The video on VICE's site has subtitles. PLZ I want to screen this at a local meetup and subtitles would immensely help, if anyone knows where I can get a srt/vtt file
You can find the video on the Vice Asia RUclips Channel with subs. Good luck!
@@KimNguyenpaul yes but it's built-in to the actual video, I want something I can download separately. I need to translate the subs, having a subtitles file with the right timestamps to begin with would be awesome
I hope this guy reads this message... You are not a failure at what you believe in. Even if you catch the ear of a few, it more then anything any of us have accomplished. You may not have things you want doing this but you got my respect in your movement. I hope you are blessed on this journey. I hope you keep on fighting and making progress 🙏🏾
Progress is when we don’t use coal anymore. Don’t be so selfish you want your paycheck over the health of EVERYONE. I get it mouths to feed but this guys laughing at dying criminals at the beginning that also had mouths to feed. But it’s hard to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on the contrary. I wish you well. Word of advice. Change your trade. People have to do that all the time. If this is the hill you wanna die on just know your generation is the last generation that will be doing this much polluting. It’s no longer up to yall
Man, imagine the emotional drain he must have felt after days/weeks it prob to took to film all of these conversations. He was so delicate and tactful with his wording to not be offensive to either side, yet still open the door to change. Excellent journalism, so humble and kind.
I feel for both sides after seeing this. The importance of nuanced decision making is highlighted so well
This really touched the most important part of the problem with our world today. It’s the divide between right and left that’s being pushed by politicians. There is a growing separation and inability to communicate with the “other” side when really we are all just humans looking for a little stability and happiness for our families. I come from a very liberal family who all live in liberal areas with people who agree with them so no real progress is made. I made a point to stay blue collar and and liberal at the same time. I can communicate with both sides and understand the humanity of everyone. If more people left their comfort zone thing’s would be better.
imho, for profit media is more the problem (than politicians - They're just pandering to a base conditioned by a chosen media delivering only one side of any given issue). all the cable news channels are profiting from the unravelling.
The person being interviewed at 30:00 seems quite reasonable (apart from the horse thing, I think that was a mistake). He seems to actually be generally current on things and his concerns about livelihood is valid, and it's people like this who need to be helped to transition to other careers that have better longevity. And I genuinely mean something like programming/IT/tech, something he can do where he lives already, pays well, and has a good future. And to those who think people like this can't learn programming or technology, you're wrong and I can prove it. I've literally trained people who are scared of technology on how to use it, and that includes programming-type work.
Most of these miners seem to have an intuitive understanding that coal and burning it is simply bad for people, from a health perspective. The argument they keep preaching is there needs to be an alternative. They understand the control this industry has over them and would welcome a change but can't or more likely won't put it together that mandating it is the only way that happens. They have too much to loose.
This is fantastic! I love how this was handled. And I think the main thing to take away from this is that it really is up to our leaders both government and corporate to fix this. We need better options. It’s unrealistic to ask people to throw away their livelihoods without any program or plan for how to replace it. It leads to people stubbornly denying reality out of spite for their current situation. That’s a huge takeaway here. I too am not willing to give up using my car just because it’s killing the climate when electric cars are still too expensive and too difficult to charge on long trips. And that’s orders of magnitude easier than changing careers. That’s not even the same thing. So until we get cars that are actually cheaper and better and more convenient, most people are going to keep driving gas cars. Until there are industries that replace coal and give people a shot, people will continue to mine coal. It’s that simple. And these miners are not the problem, and yelling at them for being climate change deniers is no going to change anything. It’s highly ineffective. You want change, give people a better option. That involves innovation, investment, incentives etc.. Don’t bother the coal miners, go bother the politicians, or better yet, go find a better solution by innovating or doing it better and just vote for people who prove to not be in line with coal company agendas.
I just tried to buy a hybrid and I couldn't get one basically there's just not enough being built... I'm guessing robably because of the batteries which aren't climate friendly sources of energy either. It doesn't seem like there are better solutions...and where I am they are just trying to replace coal with natural gas, how is that a solution? Its bs.
The leaders do not want to change, IMO (unless they can make more money).
Having the miners fighting to maintain their way of life keeps climate conversations in a stalemate position that allows the leaders to continue doing whatever they want...
The coal miners are selfish then. Not willing to sacrifice for the rest of us.
Awesome work with this doco. Love your energy and the way you make people feel safe to explore their beliefs.
amen mate
Typesetting was huge for a long time up through the 1980's. Highly skilled people doing highly skilled tasks on highly proprietary and expensive equipment it took years to master for high production.
Then came desktop publishing. It wiped out an extensive and spansive legion of specifically skilled labor for a job that was not glamorous, but it paid well and for a very long long time, provided job security and drew respect from those who knew the importance of typesetting.
Typesetters - in the Print Industry, think newspapers, magazines, books, etc. - originally were the ones who in the old days would literally put the physical letters in the printer that printed the letters onto the page. In modern times, text came from DOS (later Mac) computers, the typesetters would then according to direction, set the proper font at the proper size and style, then output it onto an almost vinyl-like roll paper. That paper with the text was then cut up with a razor blade in what was called "paste up", and with hot wax the cut up text would be arranged on boards that became the printed page when photographed by a "stat camera" by yet another skilled person.
Well, that person who did the photographing of the boards, along with the typesetters, along with the paste-up department - all lost their careers in a matter of a couple of years. Guess what? They had to find new careers practically overnight.
These jobs had unions attached. No matter. Desktop computers changed everything. The future was written, and few people outside the industry had a clue. Certainly, it was never a political football.
No one came running to stop the change. No one fought to keep the old methods around. No one insisted keeping these people employed in a dead career. No one offered special training or financial help for alternate careers. No one stumped at the podium in the name of the typesetters and that whole side of dying skill sets that went with.
Change happens. You change with it, or you die, or fail, or whatever term you prefer there. Coal is a dead end industry. We have alternatives of various flavors, that do not pollute like coal, nor sicken workers like coal. Clean Coal, is an oxymoron, created by politicians stumping for votes, and those from the industry who simple refuse to accept the change that is upon them.
I remember when the typesetting machines were getting pulled out from where I worked, to where in over just two months, there was finally one left, with one operator. She was in her late 40's, typesetting was all she knew how to do at a level that paid her to afford a home and have a decent life. I remember on breaks I would find her in tears, terrified, not knowing what to do when they came from remove her typesetting machine and lay her off.
Even though it was common to get a nice severance when you got laid off back then, that severance didn't include any help for re-education. If you didn't have savings or other resources to fund a career change, you were headed for the gutter.
At any rate, with all that said, it is beyond time we move past coal. Am all for programs to help re-educate and train those in coal, into related fields or other they find practical. It's sure a lot more than others got along the way when their careers were up-ended by change back in the day.
The problem with your example is that desktop publishing brought with it some clear advantages over the old methods. Moving from coal to wind or solar does not. A better example would be the bike vs the car. The car was faster, more comfortable and more secure. But the bike didn't go away because it had advantages of its own, including cost and reliability.
@@SweBeach2023 No. Coal is dead, for a number of reasons. Analogy fits just fine.
Bike vs car? Seriously? No. If you meant the horse and buggy vs a car, you'd at least have a relatable comparison. Where, didn't take but a few decades before cars replaced the horse and buggy. There were plenty of people who bemoaned the transition, and whined over how disruptive the automobile was to certain professions.
Just think of all those employed to clear the horse dung off the streets... no, wait, nobody did that, the dung just sat there - dung in the streets was one of the joys of horses vs automobiles.
At any rate, coal is toxic to mine, toxic to the environment, and it's time has passed. Sustainables is here and thank goodness.
The only reason sustainables haven't been integrated and iterated on as they would have been the past 100 years, is because of the barons who had vested interests in their industry remaining dominant. Which brings us all the way up to the moment, where those same barons are still, still, actively suppressing alternate solutions.
Know what's curious, oil industry scientists had already established that burning up all the dinosaur carbon was creating Global Warming back in the early 1970s. Yet, still, to this moment, we have leaders walking around waving their fisted thumbs over Global Warning being a "hoax". Cut me a break.
It's time to move on from coal, to move on from oil, to move on from energy production that poisons our planet and everything that lives on it from plants to people.
It's time to move on from the Barons who toil to perpetuate their profits at the expense of arresting the momentum of sustainable energy production solutions.
Did you know electric cars is where cars were headed as they became more popular and started replacing the horse and buggy? Did you know it was the same people who shut down Tesla's research into technology to serve that end not only for cars, but power generation overall?
We're already over 100 years behind the ball with alternate technologies vs fossil fuel technologies. Not because we couldn't make the alternate options work, but because of greed and power.
With all that said, why would anyone choose to work in a coal mine anyway, if they have options to work in sustainable energy, where their health isn't expendable? Where, at the same time, they're part of industries that are not dead or dying?
Only a fool and or idiot, or the barons themselves, would fight to keep such backwards paradigms in place, that is big coal and oil for energy production.
the more I look at Australian politics, the more I'm convinced it's just upside down United States...
Yep, both are run by Rupert Murdoch. The biggest climate change denier.
Agreed
I've seen so much bad sides from all types of American media, but there are plenty of Vice (and other) documentaries that have amazed me and this is amazingly balanced and well done.
vice is one of the best representations of real journalism in america most news here is just propaganda like china and russia news
vice is actually canadian, hq is in montreal
@@TheFamousMockingbird It’s still weird to me that Disney owns part of the company
@@swagrighttoni Yup, even though they have a general left leaning.... starting point? They're almost always on point with talking to the other side. This video is journalism at it's finest.
Vice no different from CNN fox TMZ
21:04 the autogenerated subtitles described the chirping of a bord as music! So beautiful 😊
If the miners want their side of the story to be heard, they better stop ignoring the climate scientists' side; you can't expect to be listened to if you won't listen.
Lol
Exactly
From someone who has worked in simular conditions (Not coal)
It's less about ignoring and more about not wanting the hassle.
We know climate change is a issue, but unless you give us a alternative. It's just listening to a woman complain.
We're talking about shutting down a large portion of the economy with no alternative, meaning a entire global problem that will leave millions out of the jobs, and money to spend. You can't just instantly wipe coal off of the earth instantly.
It has to be gradually taken down little by little so the world's economy can recover.
The only sustainable energy supply we have right now is nuclear energy and elons idea of Giga factories.
Both are extremely hated by the left.
You see, the left likes to bish about problems and offer 0 fixes (or aleast those that has 0 results or makes it worst)
On the right, we know it's a problem. But the fixes we offer you don't like.
This is with every fuking political issue known to man.
Left- complain that historically black communities have 0 to no investments or opportunities
Right- makes it where companies have incentives by giving tax breaks to their companies if they offer good paying jobs by building in low income communities
Left-youre giving tax breaks to multi millionares!!
So on and so on
He said “I think black coal matters is more important than (wait I shouldn’t say black lives) ummm criminals in jails!! Ahh yea… they’ll know what I mean.”
These people's opinions will never change. No one can accept that there way of life is hurting others.
whom exactly is it hurting?
@@ciaranthompson3375 well hurting the climate which in turn hurts the next generation. Also but I'm not sure, the aboriginal people of Australia and the miners themselves who have coal lung and other health problems.
Did either of you watch the film before they commented.
It seems clear to me having watched in full, that the coal industry hurts a lot of people globally including those who it employs.
It's also clear that the opinions of "these people" were quite a long way from being predictable or fixed.
There is hope for solutions and a better furture for everyone so long as judgements and assumption can be set aside and real conversations can be had.
@@faffrin5216 I would beg to differ they may have been open to conversation but none where willing to change there mind I the end they still did not believe in climate change and the ones who did just didn't care enough about it.
@@jaykillxreaperofdeath6967 Until the rhetoric changes from morality to dollars and cents, they won't see the point in transitioning to clean, renewable energies or new industries in these coal mining towns.
Yes, the coal industry precipitated their founding of these towns, but looking around at these main streets, for all the prosperity and wealth those mines have, it's clearly not being distributed to the people of Clarmont. They're defending an industry that pays well enough to the few who are required to run the operations, but the bulk of the profit doesn't stay there in their community. If it really is such a desirable industry to keep on, why hasn't their town improved? Why can't they attract new businesses to them? Why aren't the men, women and children better off? Adani is keeping some of them well-employed, but none of them are particularly interested in projecting a better, more prosperous future for themselves, or question the reality that coal is not providing them with the same benefits and standard of living that wealthier townships and rural communities have. Leaving the future aside, and the uncomfortable awareness of what a a warmer planet could mean for these people, the issue should be what's at stake for them now, and why their situation frankly sucks.
If you take nothing else away from this, please let this serve as a prime example of the power of conversation. No yelling, no name-calling, no drama. Share ideas, inquire about the other parties viewpoints and what they use to support their argument, and offer the same for yours. Truly remarkable what can be accomplished.
This guy is pretty awesome. Great job!
He realized raising awareness and picketing, etc, does something, but more can be done. This is why I love engineering, because we get to build new processes, tech, hardware, software, to change industry and sometimes global mentality respective to the environment and what can be done for sustainability.
These people really don't even understand what climate change is, but have strong uneducated options. This can be typical of places related to unsustainable industries.
Gee listening to the last bloke who charged through the crowd with his horse just breaks my heart. This whole situation is not caused by a divide in politics, but the tactics of the wealthy and powerful to pit Australians against each other. Mine owners don’t care about their workers, a labour hire worker in a coal mine could be earning 50% less than what his full time colleague earns next to him (labour hire companies should be banned and owners jailed). I wonder what will happen to these workers when the mining companies find that coal is no longer feasible… I doubt these blokes will be given any other job prospects. We need to come together and realise we are on the same team. We need to save our planet without putting workers at risk of losing their livelihoods nor their integrity. We shouldn’t be running into each other with horses, nor stopping our comrades from working to put food on the table for their family by chaining ourselves up to tools and machinery. The demise of coal is inevitable but we can’t take peoples jobs, livelihoods or prospect of a good future away from them, as mining is one of the only sectors in these communities that offer good, well paying jobs (unless you’re in the labour hire system or a casual). Solidarity everybody.
look no further than the abandoned mining towns in the US and Africa, when the mines run dry the owners pull up, and everybody fades away
Thanks for creating this video and demonstrating the tone and approach on how to have non-combative discussions about climate change. The content was opposite of what I was expecting: interviews that make light of people's ignorance or make them look evil or live in denialism. These coal miners are real people of course, and surprisingly do have concerns about climate change, yet not sure how to break away from decades of tradition.
I've worked in those exact mines, in those exact towns around Clermont, Collinsville, Moranbah, Dysart, and as someone on the left, it is very very hard to coal miners.
besides the whole coal conversation, everyone was very wholesome and it was nice to see people with such different opinion sharing their thoughs ...really cool
This was handled very well. Most coal miners don't have some idealistic reason for not wanting things to change, its just that their livelihood depends on them having a job. Give most of them a similar-paying alternative, and most would jump for it. The miners aren't the bad guys. I feel like a lot of people want to treat them as such. Keep in mind that in a lot of places, this line of work was really really good money for the area in question. They would have been dumb not to go for it when they were younger.
Black Lung Matters....
I liked this video. Opening a dialogue, I love it, Brilliant mate! I would like to some form of industry go there and rather than force people out of jobs, create better jobs that can be filled with the skill the people of that area possess. Jobs people would rather have, a way for them to feel fullfed in a days work and provide for family and loved ones. I like the idea of reshaping the land, unfortunately that does not sound profitable. If only wealthy companies could bring themselves to invest in people and the planet we all live on.
Unfortunate solar farms, and wind farms are not clean and green as we are led to believe. Both of them are extremely disruptive to the surrounding ecosystems. And they regularly produce large amounts of difficult if not impossible to recycle materials. There are no easy answers. But the much smaller, safer nuclear reactors are tiny and extremely efficient. Much of the rare metals needed to produce all the electric cars are being mined illegally by child labor in places like the Congo 🇨🇩 🤔 . Activists and politicians have us putting the cart before the horse. We're are already facing the reality here in Switzerland of what to do with the thousands of old electric bicycle batteries we've been accumulating for over 5 years now.
The handful full of people who make the big money from coal are hiding behind the low wage workers and their families. It is up to society to educate these people and give them alternative way of earning a living.
Exactly!
unfortunately the party they've chosen to get behind is burning books. Hey....maybe that's the new power source!?!?!
It's so refreshing seeing people from opposite ends of the political spectrum coming together to have an open and honest conversation. We need more of this!
Only if I could like this comment more than once. It's absolutely crucial to NEVER STOP TALKING to the OPPOSITE SIDE!!!👌👌👌
Yeah, but these aren’t opposing sides.
One side cares about the planet…the other side only cares about their own well being.
Is objective vs subjective.
They’re not opposite ends. That’s the issue!
It’s facts vs emotions.
@@sendthis9480 100% and worse yet some recognize they're dicking our planet into a coma. The only argument they make against it is their unnecessary and incredible dependence on it
@@Stevie-J
Nothing I said was suppressive.
And nothing I said sounded “brainwashed”.
Are you just rambling nonsense and hoping it sticks?
@@raisin8051
People typically don’t ask the right questions…but this guy did and it was very telling.
The first question, to know what type of person you’re dealing with, is:
“IF we know the Earths lifespans is finite, and IF we know that we are causing that lifespan to diminish by our current methods…how much lifespan are you willing to eliminate in order to keep our current way of life?
If the Earth has 1,000,000,000 years left…and burning coal takes 3 days off the end….maybe that’s ok.
If the Earth has 1,000 years left…and burning coal takes 500 years off the end…maybe that’s NOT ok.
Billy Bob in the video was asked…and he said he didn’t care one way or another.
He wouldn’t change one thing about his life.
That tells you he doesn’t care.
He worries about what is in front of his nose….ONLY.
That’s not the type of person that should be asked questions about our planet.
They physically don’t have the ability to think that big.
I worked for a demolition company that would buy and tear down old coal plants. One of the main thing many don’t realize coal is all they know and have. There is no other form of money for them. No one wants to help bring up new jobs. That’s also why opioids tend to run high in the areas I worked in
the coolant that goes into the steam engines can be caught and put thru a water cool loop system for other stuff.
As usual Vice at it again with top-notch journalism, out in the field talking to real people! I do climate change research, and I love this video. If there's any hope of restoring trust in science, that hope is in talking to people and listening.
Funny how the complete opposite is said whenever they make a piece on anything that’s remotely non political but still interesting. But what I’ll say is Vice is top notch
"as usual"
@@ricardocastro253 ikr even if it’s about random lavish drug parties, or about that one star review show thing.
Indeed
Climate change is real, but blaming coal miners that caused it is completely wrong. Coal is a product of our demands of energy, you can argue with sustainable energy.. bla bla bla but that's all commercial BS because nothing is sustainable (even wind n solar panel still need oil).
You should blame the CONSUMERS, including YOU, US, and ME. The way the modern world run these days, do you think the world will stop using coal? No! The world would stop using coal when the demand is low.
Just look at what happen to Germany right now, they though they can stop using coal by importing natural gas from Russia. They regret every decision of it.
So cool to hear about Kim's cycle to Denmark. We've been cycling around Australia for a while now and seeing all the mines here has been pretty confronting.
We started in Perth and shortly afterwards we saw the mines near Collie (and nearly got killed by the driving of the miners). After that we went through Kalgoorlie down to Norseman and that whole area is just peppered with mines. Once we got across the Nullarbor we went through Iron knob and noticed the tailings on the way through.
Eventually we made it to Gippsland, which was a real shocker. We'd seen all these advertisements about the natural beauty and then we turn up and coal power plants are the first thing you see.
We would eventually make our way North via Blackwater, Mackay etc... A whole area completely taken over by coal...
After seeing what Australia has done to it's landscape, it wasn't a surprise to then hear the attitude of a lot of it's people, which is reflected in this video. Not the thing we expected when we made the decision to travel to Australia to cycle a lap.
I love that video because the situation of australian coal miners is very similar to the situation of oil sands workers here in Alberta, Canada. We have towns like Fort McMurray that are 100% reliant on the oil sands industry and that would close if the industry had to totally collapse. These workers are not the problem. These people are blue collars who do manual jobs, and natural ressources are often the only jobs that pay them a good salary to live a lifestyle similar to the one of more educated white collars. Otherwise, they'd work in factories or warehouses for a bad pay. They don't destroy the environment just for fun and intentionnally. All they want is a future. So the best way to move forward is to create these people high paying jobs in the green energy sector, and for that, we need political change. It's useless to try to educate them on climate change. Many of them have no idea what climate change is and they're convinced it's an argument used by urban people to destroy their lifestyle.
For 13 years now, I have been building wind farms. 2,100 MW. All stages, all different crews leading teams to safely, effectively and efficiently build Enercons, Vestas, Siemens, GE, GoldWind, Siemens Gamesa wind turbines. It was premuim and costly...but now it is the lowest cost option and we need workers like crazy and we pay them very well. Let's build our renewably powered global economy together!
Great work guys... this actually goes more towards what I think would be, still a very hard sell, but the actual way forward.
It's not only about misinformation, fake news, and political divide by itself. This does have an influence because of positive reinforcement, but aside from very few people, you don't really have full radicalization full spectrum. What you actually have is a ton of people in doubt because there is a lot at stake, and people who even believe on the non radicalized grounded arguments of the "green side", but feel trapped because they see no alternatives to keep going.
It's about tons of people whose families, ancestors and whatnot gave out their entire lives dedicated to a career that was hard work, dangerous, to the point of probably having relatives or parents that sacrificed their health and lives, now having to worry about their entire livelihoods and way of life taken away by what they see as an intangible fear, uncertainty, doubt. They just cannot connect with people who never lived that sort of life, and are suddenly coming out to attack what they always saw as a sacrificed life for greater good, which coal mining has always been.
This all is not about denying our ancestry, the hard work of people who sacrificed their lives to get us here, the value of industries that still provides power for the vast majority of the world... it's just about the realization that change is needed for us to at least keep and honor the progress we made so far, it's about saying that change is needed for it all not to have been in vain. Protecting future generations from having to start all over again, if they even survive the side-effects of an industry that up until fairly recently in the history of the trade, was seen as a mostly necessary if not outright good thing.
It reminds me of another doc on that town that still lives mining... asbestos. F*cking asbestos! You had a whole bunch of townsfolks with relatives or even themselves with some of the worst cases of mesothelioma still defending the mines, the way of life, the practice and material. Exactly because denying it would be tantamount to suicide for them.
And really, the only way forward for people in situations like that is offering a shift in focus. Very few coal miners like mining coal, they see it as a necessary sacrifice for the most part. It's very clear in interviews not only in this video but many others. What they like is the fact that it provided them and their families a livelihood, a community, and that the result of their work provided power and a vast chain of jobs and progress for their communities, nations and the world in general. It's just not something you should deny anyone of.
Most coal miners also know about the health issues, a lot of them have at least some suspicion that coal mining cannot be good for the environment because they've seen the destruction happening right in front of them, and that the world eventually needs to come up with cleaner methods of power generation and whatnot. It just shouldn't be at the sacrifice of their jobs, livelihoods, towns, people, communities and plans for the future.
This is even more serious than just plain NIMBY. You come out to me and say I have to sacrifice the livelihood of my loved ones, I'll tell you the entire world can end tomorrow, I won't do it. Because my world is my community, my family, my city. Worries about "the rest of the world" comes after it, for most people at least.
There needs to be a counter proposal and action from representative and leadership positions to, if not make change attractive, at the very least soften the blow enough that it won't just have the effects the interviewees are talking about - towns flattened to the ground, communities dying, entire families left with no prospect for the future. And it just so happens that lots of those places would be great locations for renewables in one form or the other.
We have a wave of environmentally conscious people using the fact that we need change, to spew hatred on those "on the other side". This is just plain wrong. If baseline we are just fighting for the future of our existence, and a cleaner future overall, it shouldn't be like that.
First and foremost, we only got to this point where people can recognize the side effects of fossil fuels, coal, and other forms of "dirty" energy , only because those forms of energy allowed a measure of progress that would be outright impossible without them. We understand now that dependency on coal and fossil fuel is bad, because coal and fossil fuel allowed us a degree of development to actually reach that conclusion. Which is a bit paradoxical, but it is what it is.
Everything from industrialization, transportation, and all sorts of things achieved with modern machinery, electronics and whatnot only got to this point because we had those forms of energy generation in the first place. Scientific understanding and consensus would not be this advanced without our traditional methods of power generation. Societies wouldn't have evolved this far, the ones that had the privilege of evolving I mean, if it wasn't for those forms of power generation.
The only thing is that all of that doesn't mean we can get even better, by cleaning things up. It just cannot be at the cost of erasing history, shunning those who sacrificed themselves for us to get here, and ignoring the consequences huge changes like these always have in societies.
Even if you have people radicalized against the notion of climate change, or specifically man made climate change... I don't think anyone will argue about efforts to clean up things in general. Forget all these modern notions and arguments... say we are trying to achieve less pollution, less harmful emissions, and forms of power generation that are just plain safer and cleaner for everyone. Lots of people are willing to sacrifice at least some for only that, then it becomes a matter of how much.
@@3g0st Very much agreed, and sadly I also don't have answers...
It's like the problems are mounting, the evidence that we're gonna pay the ultimate price is getting more apparent, and the way our economic and political systems are setup are still going the wrong way.
Little bit of hope I've seen in such cases is clean energy initiatives specifically taking people working in mines and oil rigs and retraining them to work with solar panels and wind turbines... but I do understand this is the exception, not the rule, and it's not only expensive but also takes time.
It makes sense on pure logic - we'll need far more renewable projects to cover coal and oil power generation, it's a larger mass of workers needed for those - we just unfortunately don't have the time.
There should be government subsidies and incentives for initiatives like these to happen, but it seems that instead of going this way, what we really get is government spending more on military and monopolies/oligopolies.
Pressured by future catastrophes fueled by climate change, we'll slowly see a shift I guess... when it becomes obvious to the most ignorant people that we cannot survive without the shift. The question is if there will be enough time left to avoid an extinction level event, since we're already past the point of really big catastrophic events coming up.
Humanity as it is now can't even join together to avoid totalitarian regimes from a totally unnecessary war that is massacring innocent people, and electing warmongering leaders that would consciously go this way, so perhaps we've reached the limit... better enjoy life while it lasts...
I'm wondering if the term just transition is used and understood in the conversation in Australia surrounding coal.
Because most of those coal miners have valid points about worrying about their livelihoods and the future of their area and if those can be addressed in a just transition then that's fantastic.
What does transition involve ? And how does phrasing it as such improve the scenario
@TheMRMACHONACHO a transition that involves weening the community off the dependence on coal, and it improved the scenario by giving a possible solution
The fact that the miners/ex-miners were basically "Yeah, I'd do that." If there was an alternative, cleaner job available is proof that it's possible. Companies just don't care.
@@TheMRMACHONACHO It would probably involve subsidies to these communities, and investment in new industries.
@@TheMRMACHONACHO The Green New Deal in the US has addressed the transition. It would be a plan to reduce coal dependence and increase renewable energy dependence. It would provide billions in investments for the infrastructure needed which would of course create billions in income for workers and companies that are tasked with building that. It would also subsidize the retraining and reeducation of coal miners to prepare them with the necessary skills to install/maintain renewable energy panels/turbines etc. Every current coal miner would have a job guarantee once they are finished with the retraining that would pay similar or higher salaries with benefits. Not one single person in the video actually enjoyed working in a coal mine. It is dirty and laborious work. They do it because they rely on the industry for their livelihood and the jobs pay much better than anything else around there. Those guys calling it a huge scam and fraud are lying. They experience it first hand and can clearly see how much pollution they are releasing into the air. They just have their livelihood to defend.
I like the open conversation with no heated elements.
Oh wow, John Klaus' voice sounds amazing :O He should work in the radio or something.
Really great piece Kim. You really got to some core issues about Aussie coal mining and the Australian economy. North Queensland is so reliant on coal for their economy. Its insane how its happening so close to the GB Reef, with more and more bleaching events each year... and yet people can still turn a blind eye and ignore that coal mining may have something o do with it
... it's the farming, very much so the farming, but it's not what the environmentalists want to hear about what the need for fresh fruit and vegies along with massive amounts of beef... it's very much the farming
People who say that climate change is a scam annoy me the most. I see climate change as a major issue but also figuring out what people will do who currently work in the fossil fuel industries is also a challenge. Both sides need to acknowledge the validity of the other’s concerns before their can be a real conversation.
They will find work in other fields, moving it need be. People are just set in their ways and change often requires a lot of effort
I find it annoying as well. However, There are people out there that say shudder the coal mines, let the people figure it out. Its like pulling the plug on their entire lives and communities which has been a continuing issue. Its not that simple and it shows that Environmentalists can be just as heartless. People in coal towns, especially in the US, have basically 0 political power.
@@donsolos Point in case, look how simple you said it but how complicated that actually is.
@@donsolos like mining lithium. Lmao even clean energy isn't so clean. Wind energy fucks with wild life. Solar energy really isn't that great yet for how much space you'd need for enough panels to really generate power. Now depending on where you live it may do better. It's like 20k for a replacement tesla battery. So unless the world governments are ready to hand out trillions of $$s to get these technologies in the average persons home. And they deff aren't. My government couldn't even do covid relief right. And handed out trillions of $s but only actually giving the people a small %. I say let the climate change. All these old fucks knew oil and coal was bad for the environment like 100 years ago. Now they have made there money and can easily afford to "go green" and want everyone else to. Fuxk you
@@LLG47 The problem is they are working in a dying industry but are staunchly pro-capitalist, and capitalism says businesses should be allowed to fail without the government stepping in and helping anyone. They would have a much easier time transitioning to other jobs if they voted for more social safety nets in case they lose their jobs.
One of the best documentaries, I have seen in a while
Magnificent piece. Love this and wish the reporter a strong future… with assets too if an option
For me, what was said at the beginning of the video of about the Black Lives Matter movement really says everything about this topic. These coal miners, everyone dependent on his industry, they have their views so heavily skewed by their own personal experience that they cannot attempt to see someone else's perspective. They feel like everyone else should take care of everyone else and they'll just worry about themselves.
Thank you. I was disgusted by that man.
I saw every point through in this video, but the way you put that makes the most sense. Pretty unfair to think like that, but there were some that kinda saw Kim's point and gave him time of day, saying they'd be interested in moving forward but it's like they're just stuck in their old ways
18:46 man says climate change is "a big money grabbing fraud"
23:29 SAME MAN "I do believe that we are affecting the climate"
There is no such thing as a "physical altercation". An altercation, by definition, means it was only ever verbal. That's the whole point of the word: to make it clear to readers or listeners that NO physical contact happened. You have an argument, then a heated argument, then an altercation, and once it gets physical, now we have assault, or blows, or any other of myriad words for the kind of physical violence that was inflicted.
Shutting down mines is a very tricky thing, the Aussie government should learn from the mistakes of the UK where successive governments ripped the heart out of towns and even cities in the UK with nothing to replace it. Mining does need to stop, but people need jobs, hopefully a peaceful solution can be reached.
The mines here are already propped via subsidies, and Labor states they'll going to shut down naturally
This feels like West Virginia
Gorgeous documentary, felt very down-to-earth and friendly. Kim did a really
impressive job at keeping conversations open.
If these towns find a different source of income change might be possible. I wonder if something profitable but sustainable can be done with mines?
I would say instead that: If the government shuts down these town's current source of income, their inhabitants will find a new source. Also, while I cannot think of something sustainable you can do with coal mines, there is many things you can do with coal miners and mining equipment. For example geothermal energy requires pretty much the same skillset and equipment of modern coal mines. It can also be argued while it is unlikely that these people have another resource under their feet, the mine's assets can always be relocated. (although I'm sure they wouldn't think that is a good thing.)
@@arturodelarosa4394 The video is about a small number of people in Australia. It's not the problem.
China is the world's problem. Even after having all of the jobs that we had sent to China they haven't did anything to reduce their emissions. The next video should be in Guangdong
If we try to keep every coal town alive, it puts us on an unstoppable path toward losing huge coastal cities in 150 years. Stupid trade off. It’s immoral to try to save the coal industry.
So how much are we talking about when it comes to wages/salary or a coal miner?
We can’t just shut off coal because we still need energy. We should have been transitioning into green energy a long time ago
There's a talk online or dutch TV from a Dutch business man who bought a patch of rainforest somewhere in South-America in order to keep it protected. After a few years he got informed there were people illegally cutting down trees on his property and so he set on to investigate. What he then found was a group of people living nearby highly dependend on the wood cutting business. He eventually helped these people by providing them jobs of maintaining his piece of land but there are many people like those in all sorts of sectors, like in this video.
Isn't it great when you listen and talk to each other, rather than mutually cancelling each other?
This is the best video and method I have ever seen, by calm reasoning all can see that things are changing and it is not the miners fault but they need other options to feed their families not blocades that robs them of their wages. You can´t be a idiot and survive as a coal miner,it is hard and dangerous work, what you can be is trapped with little or no options and of cause you will defend your income. Give them options not words and the coal mines would shut down in a year.
This is not pro coal or pro climate change, is strongly pro people. Governments need to get solutions to this people… not just let them die
I must say the deliberate ignorance and inability to look to the future, and wanting those who are telling them this to all die of these people is astounding, and disturbing.
they have no other way of life they fear for their income i understand where they are coming
@@legogonkdroid3792 true. However,issue is, the impending shutdown of coal mining/burning has been coming for like 20 years if not more now, so they've had time to prepare.
Once you see how they react to change, it’s hard to have any pity for them over what’s coming. At a certain point, you can’t feel sorry for the willfully ignorant. Evolve or die
The coal industry is using the same arguments that the horse & cart industry did when cars were replacing them. Germany went through the same thing when they shutdown the coal mining industry. They offered each worker early retirement with large settlement packages. To those that wanted to continue working, they provided training / schooling and also helped them go straight into new jobs. We can do the same here.
dont forget all of the subsides that are needed for coal mines and the jobs created in other energy producing departements (like wind and solar)
na they're using the same arguments the tobacco industry does, they scare the living hell out of people while also making them fall in love with their product
@@Mitnixbinichfroh To be honest, if we shifted subsidies from coal to wind or solar, the actual cost only increases by a small amount, and because these are renewable resources, those subsidies could be gradually phased out as supply overtakes demand, unlike with coal which is exhaustible.
how to hook up more than one alternator
I'm european and I didnt get some of the socio-cultural nuances of the problems down there. I get this though - blaming the workers for what is happening is the wrong path. They are dependent on their wage, which they work hard for. The problem you face with your activism Kim, is that you're only facing the consequence of a problem, not it's cause. Our economic system is based on exploitation. Not only of the workers but also natural ressources. It is in integral part of it and would not function without that fact. The alternative would be a radical change in how we produce the goods (like energy) we need. But for that we would have to change the ownership of the means we need to produce into public hands. Only then, without the intend and need to exploit, because nobody would actually profit from production, we could make meaningful changes. Changes that go beyond greenwashing promises. What we need to do Kim, is to abolish capitalism.
The fact that we get free documentaries on RUclips by VICE News is truly a gift 👍
If something if free, perhaps you are the product.
Free indoctrination, yay
@@solonyetski that’s what you think
You can use it for good or evil
Left leaning politics agenda based documentary brought to you free via the establishment.
Great reporter. Wanna see more of him and I hope Vice gives him all the resources he wants’
Was just thinking the same thing.
"They shouldn't be creating a problem for each other because you're divided, if you're not divided, you're strong" Very well said.
This was a really good information. It shows how small towns built up around one industry can fail in the bad times and prosper when times are good. It affects everyone in those towns, whether or not they work directly for a coal mine. So the shops close down, and people leave and recovery is hard.
The coal miners just want to live their lives, it has been going on for generations. They are aware things are changing, and one day coal mining will be a thing of the past. All those workers in those small mining towns will have to leave for opportunities elsewhere. Or they bring in new jobs to support the local economy. I get not wanting to leave an area. My family has been farming the same the land in the USA for 140 years now. My family won't be forced out.
So I understand these coal miners protecting their way of life. Climate change is happening, and coal is just 1 cause of many. To pin all of global warming on just coal isn't right. It will take many industries to change before climate change can be stopped. It won't be stopped even if we shut off all fossil fuel emissions today, the planet will still warm for another 1,000 years or so before carbon in the atmosphere starts to be absorbed back to pre industrial levels.
It's a process that should have started long ago. It's already to late. Finding ways to adapt to a changing climate is more important now than fixing the actual issue. Figure out how to adapt then address the issues. It's an unfortunate battle, that we will all must take on.