Why Coal Companies Love Bankruptcy
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- Опубликовано: 15 дек 2022
- US coal companies are required by law to clean up their old mines, but a common practice of transferring those mines to smaller operators has left many polluted sites unreclaimed throughout coal country.
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#Coal #Mining #Bloomberg
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If a company declares a fake bankruptcy to run away with investors money it will prosecuted. If it does the same for not cleaning up, they should be prosecuted too.
YO MAMA DID THAT?
Yeah but who is going to pay? You'd have to hold the executives who profited liable otherwise the company just declares bankruptcy after they've run out the back door with all the money. (Usually via stock based compensation and dividend payments)
@@michaeld4861 yo mama will pay
I think that was that hopping into and out of bankruptcy about that the old man with the water under the house mentioned ;)
@@michaeld4861 because declaring fake bankruptcy is a fraud, the manager of company should be put in jail. If I can repay you a debt and I don't do it, it is fraud, if I am willing to pay and I can't it is bankruptcy
This is a perfect example of privatized gains and socialized losses. It's as clear as those former mountain tops.
Socialized losses?
I think having reliable electricity isn't a loss.
@@Robert-cu9bm Reliable electricity has nothing to do with ultimately leaving the taxpayers a huge liability to clean it up. It's all about high level corporate executives lining their pockets and stockholder value, leaving the carnage in the rear view mirror for someone else to worry about. This blueprint has been used every day and week for years by far too many big polluters and it needs to stop for ever.
@@Robert-cu9bm The losses are the mountains of pollution left behind by coal plants. The privatized gains are the profits that executives at coal companies make. You know this, and this is a poor attempt at defending these hyenas.
@zjg4gcvn just because he lacks a solution doesn’t mean you need to defend the problem.
@@williamwintemberg would wind or solar farms/renewable's ect fit/work on former or active mining sites that are deforested/de-grass'ed? aka open pit mine as a partial way of the mining corporation to delay forestsing it back aka shubry/grass/crops under the panel's
Govt. should simply collect 5-10% of the Coal Sales as tax for reclamation. You pay as you mine, simple. No legal jugglery can then avoid reclamation. 50-year-old laws should be amended.
This is a great idea, a mine makes billions of dollars until *bankruptcy. They don’t plan for the future so someone should make them!!
Those taxes will just be added to your electricity bill.
@@rock3tcatU233 I'm so tired of people making this argument. Give us an example or show an academic paper that backs you up, we are not living in the 1950s , we have data, so use it to prove your point rather than making theoretical arguments.
Lol you sweet summer child.... Government is enabling all of this.
@@leonsegade-garcia2936 that maybe impossible as rates are set by the power company's in part and inpart by the states regulatory body. and since states usally have a mix of energy that affects price. usually states dont like to rise cost of electricity. and when they do its usually small.
The answer to this is simple. Enact legislation that requires them to estimate clean up costs prior to beginning. That amount plus 30 percent needs to be held in escrow for cleanup costs by the state. Problem solved. These companies are disgusting.
The estimation should be done by an independent third-party with participation of locals and a mine can't be transfered unless the reclamation is guaranteed upfront.
The government who allows this is disgusting. Do you seriously not believe money is changing hands?
@@zjg4gcvn Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's ethical.
So we do it in Germany (I think). The reclamation-costs are called eternity-costs over here and while operating, the mining company has to create a fund that takes care of these issues for decades after mining-operation ceased.
It is in place in other mining countries like South Africa
Many of the solutions which people are posting are actually present in Australia, where mining makes up a large part of the economy. As mining operations start and continue operating the government requires a % of profits every year which goes into an externally managed fund - which will be used for rehabilitation of the site post the mines life.
excellent! what I thought, only viable and simple way to do it. Also roughly equates damage, ie 1year mine pays less than 5year mine.
Why on earth is there no requirement in these jurisdictions for the mining companies to pay into a State fund for what we call rehabilitation? This ensures that, even if the mining company goes broke, there is still funding for rehabilitation and it doesn't end up being funded by taxpayers. That 1977 "reclamation" law needs amending. Offshore oil and gas companies in Australia were selling down to $1000 companies to avoid rehabilitation liabilities but the Australian government has cracked down on it and the sector now has a large clean up bill.
Lobbies is the reason.
Republicans love this stuff. Weird since they are the ones suffering from it.
This is why coal companies make huge political contributions. There is also something called 'engineered bankruptcy.' Planned by attorneys to shed debt.
Very true
Problem can be easily solved by moving the amount for destruction/reclamation cost to a trust as they destroy the landscape instead of waiting till the end of life of the mine and hoping the company would be around at the time to pay for it.
"easily"? I doubt it will be easy to convince politicians to vote through such laws
@@nickthequick Australia currently has this in place. In order to set up a mining operation and mine in a site, the government requires money to be put aside in the early stages of mining. A % of profits are taken every year of operation and then is only allowed to be used at the end of the mines life.
@@nickthequick Then West Virginia/Kentucky/etc have no one to blame but their own state governments. If this needs to be a federal issue, I'm sure it'd be pretty easy to get the dems to back such motions.
@@Tobstarrilez I am not saying it's a bad idea, as a matter of fact it's evidently the way to go. And because it's so evident and yet not implemented it just goes to show, that it will in no way be "easy". That was my point.
In Michigan to open a gas station you have to put enough money into a trust fund before it opens. This fund is to ensure that after the gas station is gone the fuel tanks are removed from the property. Same concept.
Throw the board of directors and CEO's into prison until they start fixing stuff. There is 0 consequences to these companies. Only force will change it, goverment actually doing it's job to protect the people.
How can you throw people into prison (corrected) if, according to local regulators, they have not acted criminally? If you intend to use faulty morals to put people in prison, then you need to build whole lot of prisons.
This is not about morals but about them using loopholes. These need to be closed and the need to rot in prison
Need to first remove corrupt politicians getting bribed to look the other way
@@nickthequick clearly need a cell for anyone defending this
yeh those folks have been into prison abolition (for themselves) for a very long time so it's zero chance theyll ever have legal trouble
Surprising that no one mentioned the origin of Lexington Coal. It was a company that was formed by the original insurance companies that wrote the bonds on a bunch of surface mines. Addington Enterprises maybe. The insurance companies were required to pay for the reclamation of mines. It was cheaper for them to form a mining company to do the work, than to just pay contractors to do the reclamation. Evidently, lexington has stayed in business, probably close to 20 years now.
Big respect for the drone man 🔥
yeah he's cute af
Obviously the answer is to get deposits from the companies based on the cost of cleanup. The deposit is required to get the license until the cleanup is completed
If they are publicly traded, the best way to go after them is by going after their CEO for breach of fiduciary duty. You the shareholder who owns a share of a now defunct/bankrupt company could make the claim that this is just a strategy.
And this is why companies offshore.................................
@@halffast7799 but use the USA 🇺🇸 government when convenient or avoiding liability's as seen-convent
smaller businesses/regular-joe's don't get the opportunity for this bs.
If this really was an issue to the local inhabitants of that area, they would vote in state/federal legislators who would work to solve it.
Just saying.
It really is an issue, but grassroots folks don’t have the $millions that coal companies can put into propaganda and political campaigns. It’s not that simple to wrest power from a ruthless wealthy industry.
Hi I lived there for a long time, it is very much an issue and this piece barely even touched on about 1/4 of the issues mining has caused in the communities. It is unfortunately a lot more complicated than “just vote”.
Ok but the average American makes les than 50,000 dollars a year!! Very few actually have millions of dollar. Do you?
Probably too late now with the move away from coal that's going on, but adequate reclamation money in escrow should be required before opening / acquiring a mine.
When declaring bankruptcy that money should be protected to ensure reclamation takes place even if a new owner / corporate structure / the state takes over. Better not to damage the land then reclaim it in the first place though. This is why markets need proper regulation.
It might be a drag on coal investment which means that there will be less jobs. It would be a hard political pitch.
@@tjakkobosma5872 They're jobs for mostly those who're getting close to retirement. People need to ask themselves who would be having their jobs be saved with these jobs programs.
It's that way with the SLS program, the SLS program is meant not for going to the moon & staying for the long haul but to keep old shuttle era workers employed. Instead of focusing on the next generation of rocket technology that will feed young families the focus on keeping old timers employed long enough to draw a pension.
It's not that I hate coal it's just that I now see which demographics are the focus when it comes to keeping the coal plants open for the sake of jobs. I support nuclear power. I support a space program but I don't want to use outdated technology for the sake of 50+ year olds. Those 50 year olds aren't going to save a community from dying off.
@@jmd1743 old technology has the advantage to be reliable. Soyuz capsule is an example. Germany tries to use hidrogen instead of coal for steel production, but for a long time coal will be used for making steel
Thing is, apart from fracking and firewood, coal is simplest and fastest way to start expanding power plants... so I dont think it goes away soon. Then if that by some miracle happens in next 20 years, lithium and other ores to batteries and EVs have exact same problems.... need huge quantities of those materials to build these new equipment.
@@effexon China is building coal plants as a temporary solution with the long term goal of replacing with other sources of energy such as nuclear due to china's world famous smog problem.
The real reason American coal miners are bitter about the idea of retraining is that if they were new coal workers instead of having their current contracts then they would only get a fraction of the benefits.
They're like those older union workers who sold out the younger workers by out0voting them to take a buyout. The old workers would get early retirement + some nice perks and the new workers would get the shaft.
Coal is not a solution to employment unless you move to a developing nation.
Countries are looking to ban people who are born after a certain date from buying tobacco products, maybe we should apply that tactic for dying industries such as coal mining meaning if you were born after say 1999 you're not allowed to work for the coal industry.
The companies do have to post bonds intended to cover reclamation costs. However, that system is shaky and sketchy, with bonds not being enough to adequately cover the work needing done. And if many bonds are forfeited, the insurers’ viability is questionable. Even most “reclamation” is, as Junior Walk states, little more than a parking lot. And new mountaintop removal is happening now.
One of the big problems with bonds is most of the old legacy coal companies can self bond . If they go bankrupt they’re bond is now worthless
And they pay a tax on every ton of coal they sell, for reclamation funded by the state on old un-reclaimed land.
Bankruptcy is a loophole across the board, not just for coal companies.
They should be forced to clean up after themselves
Ask the people who regulate where we can recycle this stuff that question...
They are. That’s why they move assets around and declare bankruptcy. Then you won’t have to be liable for environmental damages. Not enough liquidation to do anything. These companies gets to walk away with their profit
@@EcceHomo1088 ?
@@grimaffiliations3671 Are you confused by the complexities of an industry...?
@@EcceHomo1088 no, by your comment
They should have to pay a bond that way the state has money to clean up after they walk away. When we get a license to dig or excavate we can’t get another license till the first license is signed off it can be a pain but it stops this from happening
I see a legal loophole there. Why don't US State who is affected by this issue amend their law by including economy-based cleanup liability? Of course, the last buyer would not give that much effort in the restoration phase since they only earned scrap from the early buyers who did not take cleanup liability on account when they sold their permit.
The only loophole I can foresee in my recommendation is that mining company will now purchase the licenses through their subsidiaries which later on will really go on bankruptcy again. It will be just another "reorganization" form of bankruptcy.
@zjg4gcvn i think lots of people care but in a few hours time only the mining companies have the resources to fight for their side
How about allowing permits to be non-transferable and taking cost of reclamation upfront from companies profits? This should stop this game.
Big Corporations always have a way or plan to get out of lawsuits against their Corporations always,Profits matter to them.🌠
Value people not things
Old coal sites in the UK were the best places to play as kids in an overpopulated country. When they get cleaned up and "regenerated" they become sterile, boring and surveiled with obese people going around in mobility scooters.
Might be different over there, mind
Same here in Anthracite Region. The environment handles itself, it doesn't need 'reclamation'.
"No energy store holds enough energy to extract an amount of energy equal to the total energy it stores.
No system of energy can deliver sum useful energy in excess of the total energy put into constructing it.
This universal truth applies to all systems.
Energy, like time, flows from past to future".
This has been an issue forever! I met a guy who was busting these shady companies in the 70s. And that's just when the laws were created. There were no rules before that.
thanks for these fantastic features bloomberg, nothing like it out there
THANK YYOU JOE MANCHIN (and thank your daughter for the opiods)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why not apply what they do with condominiums to coal mining companies?. Condos must have a reserve fund for when there’s issues in the building. So why not make it LAW that big coal mining companies and other large scale companies that do damage to the lands be audited and must have Enough money in a untouchable reserve fund to restore the lands either when they close the mine or go bankrupt. These moneys must be kept separate from the company as it is to be used to restore the land.
Hold them accountable this might be one way to get leverage on company’s like this or close the loopholes.
Tax the coal companies revenue, put the Tax in a reclamation fund. The amount of money in the reclamation fund is therefore directly proportional to the amount of money extracted from the site, which would inherently be directly proportional to the amount of material extracted and thus the damage done.
@zjg4gcvn Maybe they are acting legally to the LETTER of the law, but they are floughting the SPIRIT of the law
Very sad. Must have a separate money account from the start of mining, that is managed, so there is enough to restore once it's finished.
Completely off subject here, but I really liked the west Virginian accent 😂, specially when they say "regulation" or "coal"
whoever it is that allows coal mines to be build near water sources and waterways is a genius. congratzzz murica
it looks like a lot of unused land in the middle of nowhere and the people living there can only do so because someone built the infrastructure necessary in order to mine coal which society at large benefited from
Seems like acquiring a mining permit should require posting a pre-paid reclamation bond to be used for cleanup after operations stop. Then if they go bankrupt, the cleanup is paid for. If they can't post the money up front, no permit.
Nice info! Thanks for sharing
Tie every coalmine with a cleanup and reclamation account. Minimum pay-in and set percentage of profits to go there with a slow allowance for funds to be withdrawn kind of like a deposit when you rent an apt but part of rent also goes there for any damage you might do that would not be covered by the deposit.
I’m so tired our state being exploited
Then prove it by voting differentlt
I live in South Africa, and it surprises me how Americans are always so extra.
I dread to see the days that coal companies simply say “We’ve made enough money, we don’t need the discrimination anymore”.
These companies have put thousands of people’s children through school and universities.
In South Africa, our coal companies do more for us than ANY government department. Our refuse trucks come from the mines, our technology centers in informal settlements come from mines, our STATE hospitals & ambulances are sponsored by coal companies.
Think about what would happen to the world economy if all the coal companies simply stop producing.
If you’ve read this far without commenting something rude, the do note that I do agree with the fact that not all mining companies are the same, but the government should keep them accountable and regulate mining companies.
Great journalism this.
anyone who understands the difference between chapter 11 & chapter 7, loves bankruptcy...
You should also take a documentary about the damage the mining has done to materials of the so-called renewables like solar and batteries.
Do you claim that the impacts of those are greater than the impacts of coal mining and burning? Everything has some impact, but that agenda is pushed by those who want to ignore the damage of fossil fuels and focus on a few birds that die to wind turbines
@@Paulo44.01 yeah, you can say that because that so-called renewable is less than 2% yet of the world's energy, wait until they push that more in the future years, and it is expensive and unreliable btw.
Always with mining companies, whether it is gold, silver, coal you name it.
Mining jobs can't be long term employment for a community because eventually the gold runs out. Gold mining jobs are great as supplemental jobs as in there are plenty of jobs in the area that can absorb the gold miners once the gold runs out. There are plenty of dead gold & silver mining towns in America. It's not like how after a recession those mining jobs can make a return, once the ore is gone in the mine the mining jobs are gone forever.
You would want your miners to be able to go to a trade school to then continue work in the town they have a family in. If mining is the main employer then bad times will happen.
It's the dark side of capitalism that proponants refuse to acknowledge. The best investment a business can make is in buying political influence. This super-charges their ability to externalize costs and also receive public subsidies. I don't know how you get 51% of the population to wake up to this and stop (re)electing corrupt corporate stooges, because the 2nd best investment capitalists can make is in mass media propaganda. Fox is an extreme example, but even the 'so called left' media is working for the interests of capitalists.
Well filmed. Thank you for this amazing piece of journalism
This isn't journalism, this is Scientific Warfare on your mind.
@@trueelectsupremea.m.mosttr4786 What?
same in the uk Ayrshire is left a barren landscape with either landfills or duck ponds
That’s so messed up. All previous owners should be held responsible for the final clean up and reclamation, and bankruptcy should not give immunity to environmental liability and litigation.
The previous owners are limited companies.
It seems like legislators can make the rules, and then break the rules that they make. I have a suggestion: disallow legislators from receiving election campaign funding from any of these companies or their affiliates. And put legislation in place to ensure that company ownership and reporting cannot be obfuscated. This should be no harder to do than the implementation of the Sarbanes-Oxley laws post the Enron disaster. This in an environmental disaster of equal proportions, and it is not alone... Time for Congress and the Senate to step up and do their jobs...
Oh yeah your grandpa was right, as a former Colliery employee I can testify that coal mines do not do well in any environmental, human resources and public relations department
How hard is to ask deposit from every mining company. Sure it is not realistic to pay all instantly but it must be paid monthly bases. If company goes bust, then they never get that money back.
It wouldn't be hard. Investors or insurers could bring up that money for a fee.
All the mining permits should include the obligation to create an escrow account where at the end of each month a dollar clean-up fee is deposited for each ton excavated during the month. But, why is it not done?
There are elephants in the room. The elephants (lobbyists) are well paid to make sure that the law has no teeth. The elephants (elected officials) care more about electoral donations than the health of their electors.
Great job
Self regulation... Peak US. Shedding an indian tear for the plain hills...
23:17 Why are they able to make a clause that states evening if you transfer the company you still have to be reliable for the cleanup
The obvious answer, if your politicians had the guts to do it, is to make the mining companies contribute the costs of reclamation to a trust fund _before_ any mining is allowed to start. Canada has had the same problem with it's old abandoned mines. It is costing the various responsible governments the government millions to deal with old abandoned mines. Now new mines must make a security deposit the size of which is calculated from the estimated 3rd party cost of reclamation after mine closure, both permanent and temporary, before development is even started. This includes the cost of exploration remediation should the decision be made not to develop the mine. This deposit is held in trust by the appropriate government departments and funds are released as required during reclamation.
Law is a law and talk is talk
It's easy to interpret a law
But a law is just a piece of
Paper till you can enforce or
Apply that Law it's just a piece
Of paper that doesn't count. I believe it when I see it
Whatever happened to environment protection? Is coal cleaner than oil and gas ?
Biden wanted to virtue signal to his not very smart voter base so he cut nat gas off at the knees. He didn't do ANYTHING to address energy demand, he just largely removed the cleanest form of fossil energy from the table. So the energy producers went back to burning the very dirty coal. Great job, Biden, way to help the environment!
Coal has MSHA, which is a federal agency similar to OSHA, only they are strictly mines. Revenue generation is their main priority, more so than safety
Oil companies have abandoned their Wells, leaking and venting into the atmosphere and water.
Send more billions to Ukraine. The people of West Virginia must look after themselves. It's more important that the shareholders get their dividends. The USA is a "rich" country. Flooding is caused by "man made" climate change and has NOTHING to do with bad land management whatsoever
AMR what a stock it went up 5000% since I called it out. Amr sold all its thermal coal mines and went to coal that’s used in steel. This is normal in commodity business these boom and bust cycles bust a lot of companies
Coal is dirtier than the pollution that leaves the smoke stack. Oil is no better.
Nor is renewables.
Everything has impacts, but those impacts come with benefits.
Longer, healthier life.
So dirty it's exists right?
What are the names of the evasive executives?
Same with how PG&E is declaring bankruptcy every few years
It is all really simple to fix, this minefield needed proper legislation when they where created. Unfortunately this is in the past, so we just have to create a time machine to go back in time and make sure there's proper legislation in place to create a trust (or other solutions).
Creating the time machine will be the easy part....
0:35 that dude has a badass voice
"30k fine"... I am sure the executives were laughing
Does anyone know if the United Coal Company ever did mountain top removal mining?
where does the power come from in your office? every time it goes up its your own fault for putting them in court.
Mines need to pay in advance for potential restoration, and collectively. Otherwise, this.
Quite sure that a lot of mine owners love to hear this piece of news
Federal funding? To these red states that already take more federal spending than they pay in federal income tax? Red state bailout. I mean, I don’t mind federal dollars going to help these residents, but they need to keep those coal companies in check.
It is easy to complain as it costs nothing. If it matters to these people so much, perhaps make an offer to these mining companies to help clean up the mines in return for a wage.
They literally make BILLIONS of dollars, are you saying the average person should do more than the companies who actually have or had the money to reclaim at one point are equally responsible?
Let's bash coal so we can raise electricity costs and struggle more. Those big companies still pay avoid salary these are mines in a bad area, where I mine looks nothing like this video.
It's seems pretty obvious these coal companies just don't care about the long term health and wellbeing of the local people or their environment. Doesn't seem fair or just that they can get out of cleaning up the mess they've made by paying another company to buy their disused toxic mines.
How many of these sites would be suitable for converting into pumped hydro lakes, possibly with wind turbines and rejuvenated natural parks surrounding them? Could these be wholely or partly community owned especially if public money has to be used to ultimately clean up these disused toxic mines?
If this was an oil spill or dieselgate the company is held liable and has to pay for damages they've caused.....should this be true of these original coal companies that caused the environmental damage in the first place?
Hold businesses and those running the business accountable. Reclaim from the millions of bonuses those running the businesses, then there will be change.
I think I would only give mine permits if they pay x% of revenue to reclaim and clean the land which has issues. Otherwise they don't get a permit. Ofc it's "unfair" for those who are new etc, but it would solve the issue in the long run as they are still making money and the issue should be fixed :D
Maybe a reclamation tax which goes into a fund that will clean up the land afterwards.
But that’s a payloader loading up the truck; not an excavator my guy
And now these countries lecture the developing countries to cut down usage of coals.
Make sure to vote Republican Kentucky!
Socializing the cost and privatizing the profits is what it’s all about.
My sympathy ran out years ago. Their voting history (or lack thereof) has harmed the nation for generations.
I do legit feel sympathy for those who are actively trying to stop this but I don’t feel bad for that retired coal worker. His vote or lack thereof enabled this situation.
The only things keeping coal going are foreign markets, lobbyists, loopholes in the laws, and tax break incentives. Take those away, and that's the end permanently. Natural gas is considered a technological advancement. And one that is much cheaper and requires little maintenance once a well is finished... unlike a mine where you need firebosses, tons of outby workers, who's primary job is to keep the places from being fined or D ordered by inspectors.
Great work on the video! I think it's an important and eye-opening piece that sheds light on the coal industry and its impact on communities and the environment. The personal stories shared in the video make it even more compelling.
While I appreciate the perspective presented in the video, I believe it could have been even stronger if it had included a more neutral standpoint. By presenting a balanced view and including different perspectives, it would have allowed viewers to form their own opinions based on the facts and information presented.
Lady said Federal money is needed to fix mountainside. Coal Companys get the profits and leave. Tax payer left to clean up. Because coal company pay politicians money, then politicians say tax payers can clean up.
well they went brankrupt so that is it they are out of the game of monoply now it is the states issue for having it there to begin with.
Collect 15% of the Coal sale. The money is going to be use for clearing up.
Granite mines are just as bad, if you come to visit the great Smoky Mountain national railway in Dillsboro North Carolina you may or may not be able to see the top of a mountain cut in half like a broken tooth, imagine all the rainwater that washes through there and down into the Tuckaseegee River that used to be full of trout
Companies who sell their mines should be forced to clean up prior to listing.
The coal company should have to put the money for reclamation in a state run fund as they mine the coal. Then the money would be there when they are done mining.
ev waste is going to make coal a drop in the bucket
Need to adjust the laws, not blame those that use the current ones to their advantage
How's Mini-Mike these days? Is he going to run for president in '24? Hahahaha!
Did bloomberg ask WV DEP for a statement about this? It seems like a perspective from the regulators on how they are keeping coal companies accountable and what would help them with compliance/enforcement would have improved this peice.
Nothing to see here, we have Ukraine to Supply with weapons and rebuild first.!
@@jeffreybaker1725 ??? Corrupt politicians here is no reason to not help people who are living in rubble in the winter.
Lexington coal sounds familiar
Corporations have and never will care about anything but maximum profits
That first guy made karen, his occupation
But its not just coal companies who does this. They all do it
Has ANY company "cleaned up" after them?
It seems to me that the mine permits need to be rewritten
Wow sounds just like what is happening with the all the Orphan natural gas wells!
Company makes their money, goes bankrupt on paper, and leaves the mess for the We The People to pay for!
And the executives get to retire to the Bahamas.
"Green Clean Coal" 45th.
True ask justice coal company in West Virginia
No company is your friend.
Irreversible damage for temporary energy 🤦♂️