DEBATE: Are Christians Required to Keep the Sabbath? | David Wilber vs. R. L. Solberg
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
- David Wilber and R. L. Solberg debate the question, “Are Christians required to keep the Sabbath?” This debate was hosted by @FaithUnaltered.
Check out my book, "Remember the Sabbath": sabbathbook.com/
00:00:00 Introduction
00:01:03 Welcome to the debate!
00:02:00 Introducing the debaters
00:05:30 Explanation of the debate format
00:07:35 David Wilber's opening statement
00:22:45 R. L. Solberg's opening statement
00:38:28 David Wilber's rebuttal
00:48:30 R. L. Solberg's rebuttal
00:59:21 Cross examination
01:34:01 David Wilber's closing statement
01:29:21 R. L. Solberg's closing statement
01:44:15 Q&A
Check out more of my content on:
Personal website: davidwilber.com/
Facebook: / davidwilberblog
Amazon author page: amazon.com/author/davidwilber
Twitter: @davidwilberblog
Instagram: @davidwilberblog
Check out my book, "Remember the Sabbath: What the New Testament Says About Sabbath Observance for Christians": sabbathbook.com/
Highly recommended Brothers and Sisters. I have my copy in my theology library. David (UK)
This is the best book on the Sabbath that I have read besides the Scriptures themselves! I highly recommend it.
@@eytanbaruk3085 Thanks for the comment. It seems like you misunderstood my point. I do not believe that the sojourners "were magically grafted in as native Israelites." But they did become part of the people of Israel and were expected to keep the commandments. I agree with the Jewish scholar, Dr. Phillip Sigal, who wrote, "From its very inception, Israel was a theological entity-a federation of tribes based upon a common faith. This common faith, not blood kinship, was the test of belonging to the people of God" (Judaism: The Evolution of a Faith [Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1988], 5).
We can see this all the way back to when Israel left Egypt and a "mixed multitude" went with them. Yes, the Torah distinguishes the ger (sojourner) from the ethnic descendants of Jacob, but everyone who is aligned with the God of Israel by faith is part of the people of Israel-and they have the same covenant responsibilities. See, for example, the covenant renewal ceremony in Deut 29, where the ger is regarded as part of God's covenant people and is admonished to keep the commands of covenant, the same as the ethnic descendant of Jacob.
@@DavidWilberBlogThe Sabbath is a sign between GOD and the children of Israel
@@eytanbaruk3085 In The Book of Revelation there are twelve gates in the new Jerusalem, one for each tribe of Israel. So, through which gate will the Gentiles enter in? Are they going to be left out? The apostle Saul said that there is neither Greek nor Jew…Why does man make it so complicated? If one believes in YHVH, and in Yeshua the Messiah, then one has to live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of YHVH. We should not separate the old covenant from the new covenant, because the covenants are never revoked, they are built upon each other. “Too many books is weariness of the flesh! Fear Elohim and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man!” Ecclesiastes 12:13. I do not believe that Elohim has a different law for the Jews and a different law for the Gentiles! He created the Sabbath in the beginning, when there was no Jew, just man! At Mt. Sinai there were twelve tribes when the law was given! Later YHVH divorced Israel (they were conquered by the Assyrians and dispersed among the nations and never came back). Judah was taken captive but they did come back (some of them), after 70 years. That is why we still have the Scriptures and the Sabbath and the Moedim! YHVH is calling every one to repentance and to enter in His Kingdom, but only those who answer, are CHOSEN. “The law of YHVH is perfect, restoring the soul: the testimony of YHVH is sure, making wise the simple” Psalm 19:7. May the words of our mouth and the meditation of our hearts, be acceptable in Your sight, O YHVH, our strength and our redeemer. Verse 14.
Some thirty years ago, when I asked God to show me the way to go, the first thing He showed me was the Sabbath!
You know what. I believe He does that for everyone, it’s just some people fight against it and prefer to go their own way . He did the same for me. I was in deep depression and begged and decided to finally submit to God. I pleaded to God to use me for whatever purpose, as long as He gifted me happiness and joy. I was pointed to the Sabbath before anything else. It literally was the first revelation.
Sabbath was the first thing we were shown as well. So cool!
My sister experienced the same after overcoming her sickness.. Shalom..❤
I prayed that same prayer and I started to observe Sabbath and I just felt the power and joy of my walk leave me about a few weeks into it. And I asked and felt the strong impression (leading of God, perhaps) that said it wasn't necessary for believers in Jesus. I don't judge anyone who keeps it but it's certainly not for everyone who follows Christ.
Waoh
I'm so happy that He led me to Sabbath observance
"Obedience is better than sacrifice." (1 Sam. 15:22) "Fear God and obey his commands, for this is everyone’s duty." (Eccl. 12:13). Yeshua said: "If you love Me keep my commandments." (John 14:15). I do not understand why should be debates? Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
Amen. The scripture is very clear. As well as YHWHs intent. Our God speaks plainly. Man interjecting his own framework and concepts into the text are what brings confusion
I am not Adventist, but I have recently started to observe the Sabbath. This is from my own study of Scripture and not any denominational teaching.
Amen 💯
Same here
God bless your studies, may the Holly Ghost continue guiding you
amen
How about study some more of what sda teach from scripture. You will most probably discover more truth
I am not keeping the Sabbath in order to "score points" with YHVH, but because He saved me and gave me the Holy Spirit, i do it out of love for Him and His commandments which shall not be a burden for us.
1John5:3
Amen❤
Rev.22:13-14
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last,
14 Blessed are they that do His Commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Praise Yah for His Shabbat! Praise Yah for He made me understand it and keep it HalleluYah! Praise Yeshua!
I applaud the civility of this debate. Thank you brothers.
Very good debate. Thanks to both gentlemen. We always should follow scripture. Sabbath is a blessing and command. Thanks David!
Yes our Lord the Sabbath, Christ Jesus is the blessing. Greater than one day for he is the day in which if one fails to enter his Sabbath rest, which was ordained at the beginning, though one keeps a single day of seven, will fail to have ever truly and holly rested.
It is beyond my comprehension how anyone who proports to be a Christian can come to the conclusion that Sabbath observance is not required. It is tantamount to calling yourself a "Christian Atheist".
Solberg says he doesn't want to argue from silence, but then proceeds to argue from silence.
Jesus kept the Sabbath and He is my example 🙌❤️ I know I’m always safe if I just follow Jesus.
It warms my heart to see more Christians accepting all 10 commandments instead of just 9.
Brother David might have woke him up on the Sabbath issue! David was so in point using scriptures 😊
Keeping the Sabbath is a sign between us and God that we are the children of The Most High God. And that's what The Holy Book says.
Our wonderful, heavenly Father, creator of all living things, sanctified one day of rest... the seventh day, period! You can't just keep/choose any day and no NT scripture backs that up.
I will be buying your book David, 'Remember the Sabbath' :)
Thank you! I hope it blesses you.
@@DavidWilberBlog I find it interesting that when Jesus cleaned the temples he quoted a passage with a verse talking about foreigners keeping the sabbath
By faith Abraham offered up Isaac. By faith Noah built the ark. By faith I keep the Sabbath. Not because I have to. God said it was a blessing that's good enough for me.
Well done, David. Clear winner.
Yes of course When God adopted us he expects us to follow his commandments. When we adopt a baby we teach him our house rules and expect him/ her to follow them. He / she becomes part of our family the same as God is our Heavenly Father. Whatever he says goes. My humble opinion. Thanks for your video.
Yes! And we are no longer gentiles.
I'd argue that we were never adopted but under the laws from day one. We all come from the same people so if you want to frame it as becoming adopted, that's fine of course but God created all so there's that..
@@chuckdeuces911 when I say we have been adopted I mean, we were not into Torah or following Yeshua. So we did things that were not good in the eyes of the Lord. Now that he called us, we are adopted into his path. Now we are followers of the Lord. We are ni longer without a Heavenly Father. Yes he created everyone but not everyone believes or follows his ways. Not everyone is a son/ daughter of God not until we repent and ask forgiveness and follow his Torah and his commandments.
Revelation 14:12-20
Is this a salvatic issue? Am I gonna go to hell because I don't keep the sabbath according to the seven day at venice church
Obviously, yes!! Scripture is very clear.
Obviously, no
@@LucaneAlyeah it’s a big no.
Obviously Scripture clearly teaches that Jesus is our Sabbath rest…. He is LORD over the Sabbath.. this goes with The Galatian 1 warning in preaching another gospel of works.
Yeshua said in Matt. 5:19 " Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
I just can't understand why people come into debates when it is plainly explained in Mathew 5:17-18-19. Just can't understand the stubbornness these people have.
@@birdwingconservation4289It’s just a weak exposition of said scripture, and not taught by almost all church history, so people think that using time to cause division over the topic is a waste of effort, creating confusion.
One does not debate the laws of God set in stone given to Moses on Mt. Sinai! End of discussion! ❤️🙏🌈🌎🎶
2 Corinthians 3:7 ESV - Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,
Haha!...what more,what less! Ecclesiastics 12:12-14
Deuteronomy 29:29
Isaiah 66:22-23
James 2:10
Wow what an awesome debate! Keep the debates coming brother David
The Sabbath is the "test Commandment." This one stands out since it is a day set-apart to keep.
Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Messiah, nevertheless i live; yet not I, but Messiah lives in me: and the life which I now live, in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of Yah, Who loved me, and gave Himself for me. Yeshua kept the Sabbath, and because He lives in me, I keep it also, to honour Him and the Father.
You err not knowing the scriptures
Acts 15:5,24
But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. [24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
Great job, David! As someone who has read all three of Rob’s three books and also dialogued with him: This discussion shows that *Rob has no definitive, consistent way to know what is scripturally right and wrong.* He correctly says that a Torah commandment does not have to be explicitly reaffirmed by Yeshua or the apostles to be valid for believers today. Otherwise, he would have to say that *bestiality, cross-dressing, necromancy, etc.* are no longer applicable (which is clearly an untenable position).
However, on multiple occasions in this dialogue, *he stresses the importance of certain commandments being restated* by Yeshua or the apostles. He appears to apply this standard to the Sabbath and other commands he does not believe are required, but not to the commands mentioned above that he *does accept* (like the ban on bestiality). Thus, he (I am sure unintentionally) repeatedly contradicts himself.
When David asks him about the commandment against homosexuality, Rob’s response is that Paul reaffirms it in his writings. While that is true, do we really think that if Paul does not reaffirm that commandment, then homosexuality would then be acceptable? Of course not! David, on the other hand, can point to the Torah (and Yeshua’s interpretation of it thereof) as the standard for righteousness. *Rob cannot point to anything; he has no consistent standard whatsoever for righteousness.* This is a fundamental flaw in Rob’s position (and that of many other believers today); this debate made that very clear. It is an unsustainable, righteously bankrupt position to say that the Torah of God / Messiah / Moses is no longer required!
Nonetheless, this was a great discussion, and I pray that YHWH uses it for His glory!
this is the question that should be asked,does God change?
ilif He does not, which is a basic theological standard,why would God say over 40 timesin the so-called Old Testament that His why was forever, for all generations and eternl, but now somehow , these laws no longer apply. If Rob is supposedly a master in theology there's an absolute logical break in his reasoning
@@onejohn2.26are gentiles physically required to be circumcised in order to keep the Passover?
Amen. Rob challenged viewers “where in the NT does it command the Sabbath” so I responded with Hebrews 4:9 and the meaning of “sabbatismos”. He insisted that it isn’t talking about the “Mosaic Sabbath” which is just begging the question- so there is really no way of convincing him otherwise.
@brandonvonbo9708 This is something I'd also like some clarity on, if someone KNOWS the answer, rather than guesses it. It is clearly a requirement of the torah, yet Ma'asei 15:10 refers to a yoke which neither we nor our fathers were able to bear. I haven't looked much into the circumcision party - does anyone have insight on this?
@@michaelstaggs1880Fornication is not *comprehensively defined* in the apostolic scriptures, nor are several other sins and concepts (like the definition of marriage itself, for example), meaning that we do need to go to the Torah. That’s my main point.
Great! It was a high level conversation! A blessing! To keep the Sabbath is a glimpse of Heaven! I thank God I got the revelation of that blessing day!
Yes glimps of heaven....
Thanks for the plug brother!!! Great debate!!!
It is a commandment of GOD. We are all required to keep the sabbath. “ Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy.” GOD did not say Jews only and Christians are exempt.
Hebrews 4:9 "There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;" here "Sabbath-rest" in the Greek is actually the Verb form. Quite literally "Sabbathing" I know that's not an English word but for illustration purposes I typed it that way. This is literally and explicitly pointing to actual Sabbath observance!
You are right, also Acts 2.1 the holy spirit came on a high Sabbath of Pentecost.
No, it is not a verb. But if it were, I don’t know what it would mean.
In context, that verse is actually to believers who were tempted to return to the Law, and thus would NOT ENTER IN to the TRUE REST, that is, JESUS HIMSELF.
I would like to add:
Hebrews 4:10 - For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His. JUST AS GOD DID FROM HIS...
HOW Did GOD rest? On the 7th Day...
Genesis 2:2 - And by the SEVENTH DAY GOD had finished the work He had been doing; so ON THAT DAY HE RESTED from all His work.
Doesn't get any easier to understand than that!
@@sketchbook1
Out of context and in direct opposition of what Scripture states...
Yeshua the Messiah NEVER said He would become a day of the week...
Yeshua is the LORD of the Sabbath...
So you're saying that He has become the "Lord of Himself"?
No longer subservient to the Father?
Makes NO sense whatsoever!
Do you sleep?
Can you work 24/7?
Then obviously Jesus is NOT your PHYSICAL rest then is He?
Now cut your crap!
Those "tempted to return to the law"...
It's kind of ironic that Israel AND the nations were judged for NOT keeping the Law (Sodom and Gomorrah)
And Israel was UNSTOPPABLE when they OBEYED the Law of GOD...
Those who OBEYED the Commandments of GOD will be BLESSED
And those who DISOBEYED the Commandments of GOD will be CURSED
But somehow...
You've got this INSANE delusion that now those who those who DISOBEY the Commandments of GOD will be blessed and those who OBEY will be cursed?
I just don't get how most of the Christian are following the changes that the catholic church made.
Jesus never changed the ten commandments, the only one they have a problem is the one that God says remember
I never thought I would see this debate! so long awaited! You go david!
It's a shadow of thing "to" come not a shadow of things that had come. Although the feast all point to Yeshua, they continue to point to what is coming. Also, Yeshua did not have to repeat the sabbath since everyone kept it. Also if Yeshua would have added or taken away to the law then He could not be the Messiah. Because adding or taking away is actually breaking the law. Also, Jesus said "Sabbath is for man not man for the sabbath" he didnt only say Jew, therefore Jesus did teach sabbath.
That is my contention as well. The Yom Teruah, Yom Kippurim and Sukkot sabbaths point to the Millennium, which has not come yet. So even if the weekly sabbath, the Unleavened sabbaths and perhaps the Shavuot sabbath has been fulfilled for some reason as Rob says it has, the fall sabbaths remain to be fulfilled.
Sabbath is a gift but it is not required for Christians. Great spiritual practice though
@@UltraAar ““And the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord, to minister to him, to love the name of the Lord, and to be his servants, everyone who keeps the Sabbath and does not profane it, and holds fast my covenant- these I will bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer; their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.””
Isaiah 56:6-7 ESV
The Sabbath is going to be kept in the Millenium so why should we not keep it now?
Where does it say that in the Bible?
@@Jus4kiks quote---
@iosanahirt9454
3 months ago
The Sabbath is going to be kept in the Millenium so why should we not keep it now.
you: Where does it say that in the Bible?
Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
@@mitchellosmer1293
Where does scripture say Isaiah 66 is about the millennium?
Sister, you've made SO MANY good points...
May Abba-Yah bless and keep you...
@lavieenrose5954
WHEN does this happen?
Isaiah 66:22 and 23 - 22“For just as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, will endure before Me,” declares the LORD, “so your descendants and your name will endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come to worship before Me,” says the LORD.
Isaiah 2:2 through 4 - 2IN THE LAST DAYS the mountain of the house of the LORD will be established as the chief of the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and all nations will stream to it. 3And many peoples will come and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us His ways so that we may walk in His paths.” For the law will go forth from Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. 4Then He will judge between the nations and arbitrate for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will no longer take up the sword against nation, nor train anymore for war.
Deuteronomy 33:19 - They will call the peoples to a mountain; there they will offer sacrifices of righteousness. For they will feast on the abundance of the seas and the hidden treasures of the sand."
Psalm 48:1 - Great is the LORD, and greatly to be praised, in the city of our God, His holy mountain.
Jeremiah 31:6 - For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God.
Jeremiah 50:4 and 5 - IN THOSE DAYS, and in that time, saith the LORD, the children of Israel shall come, they and the children of Judah together, going and weeping: they shall go, and seek the LORD their God…
In THOSE days...
In THAT day...
Let those with eyes see...
Let those with ears hear...
Ron, Ron, Ron, Ron.....each and every time Jesus tells us to keep the commandments He is telling us to keep the 4th Commandment as well....why can you not see this? How many times and how many ways did Jesus tell His followers to keep the commandments?? Many Many.
John 15:10
Awesome! Seated and ready to be engaged!
45 minutes in and I’ll say that both guys seem to be genuine Christians, but on this topic David Wilber’s arguments are so saturated with Scriptures that the logic naturally flows without needing as much explanation, whereas the logic of Robert Solberg’s arguments seem to require much more explanation and “laying out” and then, almost secondarily, Scriptures attached to that argument.
I’m not so eloquent myself so I’m not sure if that makes sense.
Basically (more scripture, less explanation, easy logic-flow) vs (more explanation, less scripture, harder logic-flow).
Excellent debate. We'll done David. Praise Yah, El Elyon.
I agree with the position taken here by David Wilber and I follow Sabbath myself. I have watched Solberg in debates and talk about his stance on what he calls "torahism' and although I totally disagree with him in every way, I can't help but find him to be likable as a person. He is the most respectful and pleasant debater I have encountered who I still 100% disagree with. That says a lot about him as a person because most of the 'Christians' who debate on RUclips are absolutely awful in their behavior and are an embarrassment to the Kingdom.
"He is the most respectful and pleasant debater"
He speaks profane words against the Most High...
He is a wolf speaking like a lamb...
Most folks have considerably more patience than I do listening to people spew nonsense...
Incredibly concise opening statement David. Great work.
It was extremely verbose. The very opposite of concise. Machine gun was the comment fom Robert. Very fast and full of content.
Solberg seems to agree that he and believers everywhere long for the shalom of sabbath. It boggles the mind how a person can, through verbal gymnastics, escape from the desire for shalom and sabbath as given clearly in His eternal commands.
Numbers 15:15-16 - "One law is for you of the assembly and for the stranger who sojourns with you - a law forever throughout your generations. As you are, so is the stranger before YAH. One Law and one right-ruling is for you and for the stranger who sojourns with you."
Oh man Matthew 12:12 is a perfect example that Yashua declared Sabbath should be kept!!
Yeah its this protestant replacement theologies that impose the Sabbath MUST be re-commanded in the apostolic writings. It's just hog wash.
@truthnottradition7932 it's all about feel good and what's convenient theology now, it's all about the deilsire of man and in their own way they worship in vain, it's all about the lust of the eyes the pride of life. They turn Yashua as their own genie in the bottle. When will we serve Yah the almighty in his desire in it's own way in his own choosing, oh how I long to know His heart my creator...😔❤️🩹
@@truthnottradition7This theology is more than “Protestant”.
Also, it’s blatantly confusing for almost anyone today to find out what the sabbath is, so to say it’s sinful for people that have not the slightest clue to be obeying some rule, kinda seems unlikely.
It’s not like the sabbath is a part of who God is, and almost every Torah observant person I seem to talk to treats following God as following a rule book.
Anyhoo, these are some thoughts I have.
Thanks for sharing the debate. You represented your position very well and it was quite informative.
Why not raise the Catholic Catechism openly admitting that they changed the commandments?
They didn't. Get any catholic bible and look up the verses eg Ex 20.
Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
-Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50
CATHOLIC QUOTES ABOUT
THE SABBATH
It is well to remind the Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, and all other Christians, that the Bible does not support them anywhere in their observance of Sunday. Sunday is an institution of the Roman Catholic Church, and those who observe the day observe a commandment of the Catholic Church.
-Priest Brady, in an address, reported in the Elizabeth, NJ ‘News’ on March 18, 1903.
Protestants ... accept Sunday rather than Saturday as the day for public worship after the Catholic Church made the change... But the Protestant mind does not seem to realize that ... in observing Sunday, they are accepting the authority of the spokesman for the Church, the pope.
-Our Sunday Visitor, February 5th, 1950.
Of course these two old quotations are exactly correct. The Catholic Church designated Sunday as the day for corporate worship and gets full credit - or blame - for the change.
-This Rock, The Magazine of Catholic Apologetics and Evangelization, p.8, June 1997
Q. Have you any other proofs that they(Protestants) are not guided by the Scripture?
A. Yes; so many, that we cannot admit more than a mere specimen into this small work. They reject much that is clearly contained in Scripture, and profess more that is nowhere discoverable in that Divine Book.
Q. Give some examples of both?
A. They should, if the Scripture were their only rule, wash the feet of one another, according to the command of Christ, in the 13th chap. of St. John; -they should keep, not the Sunday, but the Saturday, according to the commandment, "Remember thou keep holy the SABBATH-day;" for this commandment has not, in Scripture, been changed or abrogated;...
-Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 101 Imprimatuer
Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; -she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
-Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174
Q. In what manner can we show a Protestant, that he speaks unreasonably against fasts and abstinences?
A. Ask him why he keeps Sunday, and not Saturday, as his day of rest, since he is unwilling either to fast or to abstain. If he reply, that the Scripture orders him to keep the Sunday, but says nothing as to fasting and abstinence, tell him the Scripture speaks of Saturday or the Sabbath, but gives no command anywhere regarding Sunday or the first day of the week.
If, then he neglects Saturday as a day of rest and holiness, and substitutes Sunday in its place, and this merely because such was the usage of the ancient Church, should he not, if he wishes to act consistently, observe fasting and abstinence, because the ancient Church so ordained?
-Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 181
Question: Which is the Sabbath day?
Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
Answer: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
-Rev. Peter Geiermann C.SS.R., The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, p. 50
Q. Must not a sensible Protestant doubt seriously, when he finds that even the Bible is not followed as a rule by his co-religionists?
A. Surely, when he sees them baptize infants, abrogate the Jewish Sabbath, and observe Sunday for which [pg. 7] there is no Scriptural authority; when he finds them neglect to wash one another's feet, which is expressly commanded, and eat blood and things strangled, which are expressly prohibited in Scripture. He must doubt, if he think at all. ...
Q. Should not the Protestant doubt when he finds that he himself holds tradition as a guide?
A. Yes, if he would but reflect that he has nothing but Catholic Tradition for keeping the Sunday holy; ...
-Controversial Catechism by Stephen Keenan, New Edition, revised by Rev. George Cormack, published in London by Burns & Oates, Limited - New York, Cincinnati, Chicago: Benzinger Brothers, 1896, pages 6, 7.
The Church, on the other hand, after changing the day of rest from the Jewish Sabbath, or seventh day of the week, to the first, made the Third Commandment refer to Sunday as the day to be kept holy as the Lord's Day. The Council of Trent (Sess. VI, can. xix) condemns those who deny that the Ten Commandments are binding on Christians.
-The Catholic Encyclopedia, Commandments of God, Volume IV, © 1908 by Robert Appleton Company, Online Edition © 1999 by Kevin Knight, Nihil Obstat - Remy Lafort, Censor Imprimatur - +John M. Farley, Archbishop of New York, page 153.
Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God... The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.'
-Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.
If Protestants would follow the Bible, they would worship God on the Sabbath Day. In keeping the Sunday they are following a law of the Catholic Church.
-Albert Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore, replying for the Cardinal, in a letter dated February 10, 1920.
There are more, but I digress. So, Catholicism did not change the wording in the Bible, butdeclare their tradition is greater than the Bible.
@@andrewjohn2124
You would have to have your head in the sand on a deserted island to not know of the Catholic churches boasting of changing the solemnity of the sabbath to sun-day.
You're right.very clear!
The Sabbath is the 4th commandment. Its part of the government of God. John 14:15
“If ye love me, keep my commandments.”
Darn! I missed it, watching now!
Kudos to both of you for keeping this discussion so loving and honest. This is the way Christian apologists should talk it through.
I truly see nothing but love here. This is really a beautiful thing.
Thank everyone! Come let us reason together Amen Well done😊
I think they should, but that was after we studied the Old Testament and really delved into how the apostles lived the law after Jesus acceded into heaven. Study it for yourself. Read the scriptures instead of just listening to Christian church leaders.
I greatly appreciate you David for sharing the facts and authentic research about why the Sabbath should be observed by all believers instead of giving your own interpretation of your opinion. Please continue to give the light of the gospel of Christ through your channel! 🙌🏾✊🏾
Shalom and blessings, Brothers. Thank you for this excellent and edifying debate David/Rob, and thanks also to David/Tyler for hosting this very important topic. I'm very biased regarding this subject, as I, like David, am pronomian and have a copy of David's excellent book on the Sabbath on my bookshelf. It was a great pleasure to listen to a debate carried out in brotherly love and humility. In my humbled understanding The Law of YHWH, the Law of Moses and the Law of Messiah are all the same 'TORAH'.........
Awesome use of scripture David and your use of resources is impeccable. Although I do not believe this topic is a salvific issue, a doctrinal issue or even a covenantal issue; however, it is certainly a relational love issue. Does YHWH want us to keep the beautiful gift He gave to mankind called the Sabbath to show our love for Him? YES!!! End of debate. Every blessing Brothers. David (UK)
Why did He say "Remember the Sabbath day?" Because He knew we would forget!!! But God only blessed the 7th day no other day...so if man blesses his own day that is NOT acceptable to God.
The believers in Yeshua, are grafted in the Body of Messiah, therefore the same law that was given Israel at Mt Sinai, applies to believers in Yeshua.
Yes,yes,yes,
Thus debate approved the validation of YAHWEH, S WORDS AND COMFIRMED THE STATE OF LAWLESSNESS IN CHRISTIANITY .
THE SABBATH THE ONE AND ONLY COMMANDEMENT WHICH START WITH THE WORD REMEMBER YET IT IS THE ONE THAT MOST CHRISTIANS TEND TO DEBATE FORGET AND SADLY REJECT EVERYDAY
Wonderful debate! Thank you for posting this. Our family enjoyed it and I really enjoyed listening to my 6 and 8 year old refute some of Solberg's point. Made for a great Shabbath lesson on the God's authority and apologetics. ❤
Good work David. Following from Kenya East Africa
David: Excellent job!
One point I have been studying and would recommend that you do as well to present this point in your next debate is to study and present what the obligations of a DISCIPLE is.
The Disciple is a CLONE of their Rabbi, in what he taught, what he observed and in every way possible.
This ONE WORD defines our obligation to OBEY the same TORAH as Messiah.
This obligation is the same for Jew or Gentile, as He spoke in
Matthew 28:
19) Therefore go and make disciplesd of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,
20) and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you.
----------
Here He plainly stated that both Jew and the Nations were to OBSERVE THE SAME THINGS AS HE HAD TAUGHT THE DISCIPLES WHO WERE JEWS!
What Rob, and so many fail to understand is that the sojourners were grafted in....just like Ruth was grafted in, by a choice and decision that the God and the people of Naomi was going to be her God and her people. They didn't call it grafted in, in the Tanakh but that's exactly what it was. The "mixed multitude" that left Egypt were given that opportunity to be grafted in and live as one of them. Gentiles were the ones being GRAFTED IN, not the Jews. Grafted in to what??? The same faith. Hence why the new grafted in converts would hear Moses preached every Shabbat and learn what the Torah was bit by bit, and live as a true believer (obviously not all of the Jews were true believers if they rejected Yeshua). But there is ONE TORAH for the native born and the sojourner OR the grafted in. Mind boggling people don't get this. All believers were to walk even as Yeshua walked, and He constantly pointed to the Father's authority, His doctrine/the Torah and the prophets. People have been blinded.
DITTO brother ❤
Those are good points and I think the confusion enters in where Paul states that fleshly circumcision is nothing (1Corinthians 7:19) - that the true Jew is one who is circumcised of the heart (Romans 2:29). And that there were specific rules for Gentiles becoming ones as born in the land (Exodus 12:44-49). However, the Torah also indicates that God is the one who circumcises the heart (Deuteronomy 30:6).
Yes, well the other huge problem is that people think somehow Paul has the authority to overturn parts of God's word. Yet we are told that we are not to add too or take away from His word.
Deut. 4:1-2; 12:32
Prov. 30:5-6
Ecc. 3:14
Rev. 22:18-19
Plus Yeshua saying not so much as a jot or tittle. Yeshua never altered a jot or tittle but people think Paul could???
Yes its said in the NT! Yeshua said..."sabbath is for man and man not foe Sabbath "
Thankyou.
God bless you Sir
Excellent discussion brother Shalom
Paul said, "These are shadow of things TO COME..."
quote----Paul said, "These are shadow of things TO COME..."-- unquote
Meaning the sacrifice of Jesus.
@@mitchellosmer1293
Hey,
How to write with lines on the text?
Now of the things which we have spoken this is *the sum* We have such an high priest, (of the order of Melchizedek; chapter 7) who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty *in the heavens*
A minister of *the sanctuary* and of the true tabernacle, *which the Lord pitched and not man*
For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
(His life; "no greater love"...)
For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests [Levitical] that offer gifts according to the law:
Who serve unto the example and *shadow* of *heavenly things* as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make *the tabernacle* for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to *the pattern* shewed to thee in the mount.
*But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry* by how much also *he* is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
*For if that first covenant had been faultless then should no place have been sought for the second*
For *finding fault with them* he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make *a new covenant* with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; *I will put my laws into their mind and write them in their hearts* and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
{Hebrews 8:1-10} (Jer 31:31-33)
The law of God and the laws of Moses where both (separate) laws of the old covenant.
And *the LORD spake unto you out of the midst of the fire* ye heard the voice of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice.
And *he declared unto you his covenant* which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; *and he wrote them upon two tables of stone*
And *the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments* that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.
{Deuteronomy 4:12-14}
Neither will I make the feet of Israel move any more out of the land which I gave their fathers; only *if they will observe to do according to all that I have commanded them* and *according to all the law that my servant Moses commanded them*
{2 Kings 21:8}
Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, *that they might not obey thy voice* therefore the curse is poured upon us, and *the oath that is written in the law of Moses* the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
{Daniel 9:11}
God hollow it set it apart,sanctify it,blessed it set it apart. Constantine Great change it, 421 Ad. We the small flock Shalom ❤.
Excellent debate guys... you both demonstrated a true Christ like character. Keep up the great work!!!
I pray that I be able to listen to this again Amen
Awesome debate. You have tons of solid biblical info. The only mistake was the mic in the beginning 😂
Also hello from upstate SC 👋
Excellent job!
I'm glad you are attempting to put that person straight.
I'd like to have you on a show sometime and you can promote your book.
John 5:46-47 - "If you believed Moses, you would have believed Me, since he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how shall you believe My words?"
Are Christians required to keep the Sabbath? It's simply a bad question. Are Christians required to 'love God', are they required to 'not kill', are they required to be 'kind to their neighbors', are they required to be generous, or exercise patience? The answer: none of us are going to earn heaven by performing these things, but if we love God we are going to respond by obedience to Him, and this includes the Seventh-day Sabbath.
"none of us are going to earn heaven by performing these things"
No, but willfully disobeying these COMMANDMENTS will being curses upon you...
AND...
Matthew 7:22 and 23 - 22Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness!’
The Sabbath will be the the final matter of contention that will embroil the entire world before Christ finisshes His judgment and returns to take His people home. From Genesis to Revelation the controversy has been over as to whether the human race will keep God's law or the law of men. When Adam and Eve decided to eat the forbidden fruit, the law of men was established; do as thou will. God through His Son has reestablished the propensity for humanity to do His will and His alone, for those who believe. THose who look upon Jesus can see that when you love Him, you receive grace to keep His commandments.
Funny fact: my dad was atheist and when I was a little girl he told me “Christians are hypocrites because they discarded one of their God’s commandments”. He said this in mockery not realizing that his comment installed in my heart to love God’s word as an absolute declared true, ever since my motto is WORD OF GOD, not of man.
David had an awesome opening
Can I just say that at an hour and fifteen minutes into this debate, Robert Solberg’s humble and graceful heart has been on *full* display and I can just see the love and gentleness of Christ in all of his speech. What a breath of fresh air amongst Christian debates! ❤
I very much agree. Some of the debates I’ve seen were so ugly, it was hard to believe they were Christians.😕
HalleluYah. The Word of God is never wrong.
I'm so excited to see you and Mr. Solberg talking about this! When I was first being introduced to torah observance as a present expectation, I would watch both 119 Ministries' videos and his. I love this format for it, too. I hope many people get to watch it and benefit from it. הללויה!
If Noah could eat ALL the animals after he got off the ark, both those he knew were clean and those he knew were unclean, from God’s instructions to take 1 pair of unclean and 7 pairs of clean, then as soon as he ate his first bbq pork sandwich, pigs would go extinct! No male pig or no female pig, means no future piglets. Noah would have noticed that he should not eat the unclean animals as that would result in many species of Gods creatures quickly going extinct. Am I missing something here?
no yer not ❤
He could wait until they reproduce and grow to eat them, although I know that isn't the case. Many unclean animals produce lots of offspring, think pigs, rats, rabbits, dogs, etc. Whereas many clean animals only have one or two babies at a time.
I do not believe Noah ate unclean animals, I was just giving a possible argument that one could use.
I think this is an example that rob made which is very important.
God has the right to change his mind. And to do things differently in time to time.
Hes the one who made the rule. Hes the one who can change the rule.
However, if he does change, he will let us know.
@@achristianconvertedtochris5862 quote---God has the right to change his mind. And to do things differently in time to time. unquote
Malachi 3:6
- For I am the Lord, I change not; or, Jehovah, I change not, therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts.This is to show that God performs his promises, and effectually disposes of the allegation in ...
According to you, God is a liar!!!
-----Where in the Bible does it say God won't change?
God Himself said, “I am the LORD; I change not” (Malachi 3:6). The Bible says He is the Father of lights with whom there is no change or variation (James 1:17). This means God will never be less than He is now, or ever be different from what He has already revealed Himself to be in the past.
----What are the three things God Cannot change?
Cannot Do (Gospel Tract - Packet of 100 - NKJV) c: unknown ...
SUMMARY: This catchy tract explains that there are three things God cannot do: He cannot lie, He cannot change, and He cannot allow sinners into heaven.
Fact#1:
NO "Clean animal" when healthy and prepared properly will poison you if you eat it...
Fact #2:
About 6 dozen or so of the "Unclean Animals" regardless of whether they are healthy and "prepared properly" (If that's even possible) WILL poison you...
It will either kill you...
Make you deathly sick...
Or make you deathly sick the whole time it is killing you...
Could it be that Father Yah was trying to tell people to OBEY His "food Laws"?
No, that barracuda sandwich and giant hog-weed salad will be perfectly fine if you just pray over it before you eat it...🙄
That was AWESOME!
I *love* David’s question “isn’t it reasonable for a Christian just reading through the Bible [without any outside influence] to believe that we should still be keeping the Sabbath?”
Absolutely.
If you put a tabula rasa human in a room and have them read through the Bible…I’m 100% convinced they walk out of that room as Sabbath keepers.
Great debate David. You presented the case for the ongoing validity of the biblical Sabbath for the whole body of believers clearly and logically from the scriptures. Easy to understand for those with ears to hear.
Unless I missed it, I would think a good Pronomian argument would be when Yeshua says pray that your flight doesn't happen in winter or on the Sabbath. If it is still not the 7th day then what is He talking about?
Thanks for the comment. I briefly mentioned that in my opening statement. Jesus’s command to pray is certainly not what we would expect if he nullified the Sabbath!
The question should be, Are Christians required to keep all 10 Commandments? If you do not keep the Sabbath, then you believe there are only 9 Commandments to keep. Show me a scripture where it says we should keep only 9 of the 10.
Show me a scripture where it says to keep all 10 commandments.
Acts 15:5,24
But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. [24] Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:
It is great that you rose to this challenge I am looking forward to watching it tomorrow when I get some time.
As a side note, I think you would be an ideal candidate to debate Justin Best regarding his erroneous claims about Yeshua, Paul, and his hard-line stance against the veracity of Scripture. Someone needs to rise to the challenge if he is willing to do a formal debate without disrespecting anyone. He is leading many people astray.
Thank you! I have done a couple of videos kindly responding to Justin Best's demonstrably false claims-and then he blocked me on TikTok. He has also blocked others who have been critical of his content. So, unfortunately, I do not think he would be willing to do an actual debate.
@DavidWilberBlog That doesn't surprise me. It seems to be more emotion than intellectual integrity on his part. I'm glad you attempted to correct him. Still, if he is a genuine seeker of truth, he would be open to a rigorous debate.
Brother David, that was awesome! You should really consider doing a debate with Rabbi tovia singer. There are not many Christians who can give a good argument for Tovia but I believe you can. God bless.
Excellent, thoughtful debate with the gentlemen being most respectful of each other. Very refreshing in this world full of hate.
The 4th commandment is the only one which we called to remember possibly because God knew there would be issues around it and not so much around the other 9. This is only commandment God owns "but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord you God" exodus 20:10. He calls it his own
Just a warning more and more Hatred is growing toward the Sabbath. All those who keep it will be persecuted by those who are against it. A new theology or view is growing that those who keep Sabbath worshipping the wrong God therefore they are not only lost but evil. It’s interesting that the Antichrist spirit is described as the lawless one in other words the one without the Law. Whoever believes that God’s handwriting needs to be replaced by Sunday sacredness is shocking. In the last days who will we worship? The Creator or the creature? What commandment speaks of worshipping the creator? The Sabbath commandment.
Yahshuah said walk my ways. Here we go Lord. Your the Way. Teach me
I genuinely admire your patience through discussions like this. I'll admit that I don't think I'd make it as far as you did here; not because I get angry or necessarily frustrated, I just get to feeling like there's no road forward. After you point to +/-200 scriptural references that all add up to the same thing, what else are you supposed to point to? Nevertheless, I once was lost but now I'm found. I genuinely admire your patience.
Great job guys, David I was hoping you would put James 2 v 8 and Revelation 14v12
I just ordered 'Remember the Sabbath' and three other of your books on Amazon.
Thanks so much! I hope they are a blessing to you.
I always tell people what I believe about the healing of the man on the Sabbath. We are to love our neighbor as ourselves, so helping your neighbor be 'restored' or 'rest' on the Sabbath is what you're supposed to do! It's difficult for me to have roommates, coworkers, and boss who even seem to have to work more when I choose not to on the Sabbath. (I keep the lunar Sabbath) This is something for which I need prayer. I don't want to make others work more.
David, I prayed months ago about a book written by Solberg which caused my father to say some dark things while I was there within earshot. There have even been a few people who said that I couldn't be saved if I was still 'under the law' but I see Jesus' works as defending the true law and rejecting the false additions. I'm glad that you took up this debate. I feel like I would be nowhere in your leagues, although I likely shouldn't assume that given what I have been through in life, falsely thinking others had more expertise when I genuinely understood something of value they didn't.
I am curious about your book, now.
REMEMBER THE SABBATH, remember means FOREVER so SIMPLE even a kid UNDERSTANDS
Same issue, Christians dont know they are Grafted in to Israel, and dont know that Israel is not Jews, or Jewish but the name of God's people and anyone can join to it via Yeshua. There was a mixed multitude at the mountain, not only Jews.
I am an SDA since 2016. I'm 21 years old now. We are taught that there are two institutions made during the creation, the institution of marriage between man and woman, and the Sabbath, between man and God. Many didn't understand that the Sabbath is part of God's creation, He created the Sabbath for man. That is why the 4th commandment begins in "remember" because that command was said long before Moses. We are also taught that the laws of God is His will for us to lead us to Christ. The laws man cannot perfect, we reflect ourselves to this laws and recognize how sinful we are and that we have fall short of it, and in need for a savior which God given us through Jesus. It does not mean that we continue in sinning because of this faith, but it means that only Jesus can perfect our faith, not our works. The laws and prophets testify Jesus, it means it points to Him. It would be a disaster doing away the laws of God, for it's what leads us to Christ.
You don't Need a debate for this. You just need a humble Heart with ears to hear.
My Christian friends and Brothers, as Jew, we pray in our morning prayer for the Gathering of the exiled ones from the four corners of the earth.
Please see it this way; Guarding the Sabbath is a blessing. It will restore your soul and bring you closer to the redemption. It is healthy for the family to rest on the day God Chose. There is no burden in resting. We Jews have our way that we honor the sabbath by doing more to do less. At least start with not buying or selling on that day, or working. Spend it with family and friends and read your bibles. :)
Commandments to be kept TODAY?
We can look to Daniel as an example for what commandments could be kept in exile without the Temple.
Records do show that they did keep the Feast of Sukkot while in Babylon. So one does not need to be in Jerusalem to keep the Feasts.
Where can I find that?
This is a great observation. Can you provide verses?
I would also love a reference, biblical and a reference to the Israelites keep Sukkot while in Babylon please.
Now of the things which we have spoken this is *the sum* We have such an high priest, (of the order of Melchizedek; chapter 7) who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty *in the heavens*
A minister of *the sanctuary* and of the true tabernacle, *which the Lord pitched and not man*
For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.
(His life; "no greater love"...)
For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests [Levitical] that offer gifts according to the law:
Who serve unto the example and *shadow* of *heavenly things* as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make *the tabernacle* for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to *the pattern* shewed to thee in the mount.
*But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry* by how much also *he* is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
*For if that first covenant had been faultless then should no place have been sought for the second*
For *finding fault with them* he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make *a new covenant* with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; *I will put my laws into their mind and write them in their hearts* and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
{Hebrews 8:1-10} (Jer 31:31-33)
God's Law is, and will always be above ours, God is the Law giver.
I bought David's book after watching this.
Wow. Powerful opening. Normally I watch YT at 1.75, but when David git started, I knew I needed to take it back to 0.0
I really enjoyed listening to this debate, we need more of this kind of dialog. You are obviously both well read and well-studied. I was challenged by both of you. Would you please entertain the peanut gallery for a moment?
First: I suggest to you that every time Jesus had a conflict with the religious leaders He was actually teaching the Sabbath. He was correcting the errors that were being made in its observance.
Second: As for the Sabbath being on the seventh day, that is a pattern from creation itself. The Sabbath came after evening and morning of the first day, second day, third day, forth day, fifth day and sixth day. The pattern is still in effect today and you both agreed that what we call Sunday is the first day of the week.
Lastly, since you both mentioned John’s epistles, I would call to your attention 1 John 2:6
1John 2:6 NKJV He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
The “He” is Jesus and He walked in all the Torah including Sabbath.
Of course, it’s easy for me to make comments while I’m in the heat of the debate. Hats off to both of you for a great, civil, enlightening debate. Let’s keep learning together.