Assuming that you're right and we go by it then on lvl 4, the cooldown time would become 1.5 which rounds off to 2 and on lvl 5, the cooldown time would be exactly 1 second and afterwards any further upgrade would be completely pointless, as dividing 1 by 2 would be left with 0.5 which rounds off back to 1, which is coincidentally the number of levels you just decreased on the necessary upgrade before it becomes pointless when comparing it to the -10% scaling used in the video
I thought it'd be 10 / tele level rounded to the nearest whole number so a level 4 is as good as a level 3 then level 5 is 2 seconds, you'd need to be level 7 to get about 1.44 seconds, but let's say it rounds up so we don't get a 0 tele speed, so level 10 = 1 second.
@@shadowzone2588 Each beep also has a small time-frame where there is no beeping, and there is definitely not enough time for 100 beeps to happen by the time the sentry turns again. It's a constant stream of ear rape
6:15 "if you tried to sap a level 2880 building it would take around 100 orders of magnitude longer than the heat death of the universe to actually destroy" *"Or, 2.5 hours using the red tape recorder"*
making the red tape recorderthe most usefull version of the sapper if you could get a level 2800 building but the engi would still probably destroy the sapper
There used to be a functional exploit using an enemy spy with the Red Tape Recorder that would let you continuously upgrade sentry guns from level 2 -> 3, but keep the health pool each time. You could create sentry guns with hundreds of thousands of HP.
So even with the Jag, it would take around 11 minutes to upgrade a sentry to level 100. But adding even just 1 engineer would cut that time in more than half, as you'd also half the time running to the Resupply cabinet. Even with a 3 Class limit the total time goes down to around 4 minutes, which could make building on last a viable option with enough engineers. Theoretically, you could probably make high level sentries in setup time with a whole team of Jag Engineers with highly optimised suiciding and teleporters.
I feel like 3 organized engies could feasibly build a mega nest on mid if they bank on lvl 17 dispensers, using setup by resupply to get 3 lvl17+ dispensers. The dispensers would completely negate travel time between the nest and resupply since they resupply faster than a jag can consume metal (not accounting ammo consumption, upgrade to lvl20 if thats a concern). It would also help the rest of the team a bit more to essentially have 3 resupply cabinets around mid
Since teamwide cooperation is a given, the other side could team up using uber, quick-fix's knockback resist (maybe crits) and a power class of your choice to clean out the engis, then have a spy just shut down the sentrys with his sapper. Walk on point, perhaps spam the enemy spawn, game over.
engineers who place their teleporters facing off a cliff while doing the taunt with a weird name i cant remember for the life of me where they just sit and drink beer are coping and seething that this isnt real
It would be interesting if every level, instead of making the health insane, it steadily becomes a sentry bunker with armour plates the enemy has to destroy before they can get to the actual sentry. The higher the level, the crazier your tower defense sentry gets; to a point that people can hide inside the sentry defenses for protection. Same thing with the dispenser, to a point where your buildings become part of the map geometry.
@@CodeMan-tj3rt and thats worse than a sentry with billions of hp? Remember, this isnt meant to be fun or balanced, its supposed to be funny, and this is hilarious.
@@Calvin.Hobbes98 you could run this on say a X10 server where buildings can be upgraded to level 30, to compensate for people chucking 30 pills in a volley at you sentry nest.
i think upgrading the serty should get more trypes of guns/projectiles since rocket is one you could put flamethowers, shotgun, sniper rfiles, arrows, pills, the 2 scout baseballs now for the dispenser, while heal get things, spy gains cloaks, but what if start to give more bars to the other classes? jarate, machetes, balls, gas, jetpack, after that will start adding buffs, then will start to give the damage for free for soldier and sniper, and finally uber
3:32 Actually, I see another way to look at this. Half of 10 is 5, but what's half of 5? Well, obviously that's 2.5, which is then rounded up to 3. I feel that this would be more accurate scaling than what you provided, but that's just my opinion.
I actually saw it as 10/level rounded 10/1 is 10 10/2 is 5 10/3 is 3.33... rounded is 3. This would reach 1 second at level 7 and 0 seconds at level 21. So, a bit more powerful.
Suggestion for new tele upgrade progression: Lvl1: 10 sec Lvl2: 5 sec (-50%) Lvl3: 3 sec [-50*0.8] (-40%) Lvl4: 2,04 sec [-40*0.8] (-32%) Lvl5: 1,52 sec [32%*0.8] (-25,6%) rounding to 2nd after comma from now on. Btw this level 5 is similar to other results but it's no longer the limit ;) Lvl6: 1,21 sec [...] (-20,48%) Lvl7: 1,01 sec [...] (-16,38%) Lvl8: 0,88 sec [...] (-13,1%) Lvl9: 0,79 sec [...] (-10,48%) Lvl10: 0,72 sec [...] (-8,38%) And so on. This way, you don't have useless upgrades anymore :D They only get progressively weaker :p
Level 20 Sentry HP in the couple thousands. TF2C's Randomizer servers actually randomize building HP along with tons of other stuff, so I've experienced this on both ends.
Can't speed up re-deploy upgrades though, so you'd have to just let it sit. You can only boost the initial level 1 construction animation on re-deploys.
what if instead of upgrading the physical sentry with the wrench, the sentry itself gets upgraded whenever it gets a kill or gets repaired. Like 1% more damage per kill and 1% more max health per wrench swing. So every time it gets kills, it's a lot more stronger than the last and so a lot more dangerous if it's not dealth with. And if it's not killed in one attack, it gets even beefier. That'd be kinda cool and would reward the engineer if they got good placement and have a willing wrench.
I wonder how broken would buildings be in MVM... In MVM, Engineer can place already fully upgraded buildings during set-up. In normal game that would be at level 3, but with no cap on levels that could possibly mean... whatever highest number could possibly exist. The point is - just one Engineer could perhaps be able to deal with all the waves in MVM by just placing few buildings, since effectively infinite damage could remove from existence basically anything. Granted, at some point numbers would overflow and probably be set to 0... or crash servers trying to host those abominations.
Well the sentry would have infinite health, infinite damage output, and infinite rockets, so it would kill anything in one tick, cannot take damage, and it would crash the server every time it shoots at something. (Or when the engineer presses the right mouse button whilst holding the wrangler.)
Level 4: Sentry gains permeant wrangler shield providing 80% damage reduction. Level 5: Sentry guns replaced with dual flak cannons that deal 50 explosive damage per shot Level 6: Sentry gains tracks and cockpit seat allowing engineer to drive it around the map. Level 7: Missiles replaced with Katyusha rocket launcher allowing for across the map bombardment. Level 8: Obelisk of Light style laser defence system that insta kills all nearby enemies. Level 9: Mobile empowerment field that grants all nearby allies healing and permanent crits Level 10: Tactical nuclear missile launcher that insta kills everything on the map and leaves a cloud of radiation that causes all players not in a sentry tank and not on the Engineers team to take constant radiation damage at all times.
4 makes sense but I think 5 would make it have a faster turning speed.... actually If you think like an engeneer your in the right direction but putting upgrades far too soon. the flack could be a level 8 to 10 thing with stuff like: Faster bullets and more ammo capacity or even a ring of fire for Spy defense. I could type all day but there are my ideas,
With enough polishing this actually sounds like a cool idea for a server. Perhaps instead of a flat upgrade rate you could have an upgrade curve that provides diminishing returns after the 10th upgrade or so in order to prevent too OP buildings from being constructed.
Or just cap everything at 25, (maybe cap health at level 10?) since at that point a sentry is dealing an Overhealed!Heavy amount of DPS, Dispensers are restoring everything per second, and teleporters are portals.
I’m pretty sure the teleporter recharge is halved and then rounded up. 10/2 is 5, 5/2 is 2.5 and rounds up to 3, level 4 would be 2, level 5 would be 1 second, and from there it would remain 1 second recharge
I actually did the math for this and found it to take 3 minutes and 40 seconds for a rtr to fully deconstruct a level 100 (I have a coment on this but I don’t think anyone will see it)
@@ThePikminCaptain the red tape does a flat rate per level while the sapper deals damage A sentery gains hp exponentially but levels at a flat rate of 1 So the sapper quickly gets completely obsolete at around only level 4 or 5 to my knowledge (I could be wrong has been awhile sense I looked into this)
With enough teleporter upgrades, your character appears on the other end long before you even decided to take it. It shatters every concept you have of destiny, causality, and free-will. This existential crisis, when inflicted on the enemy team, causes an instant win. Much like normal teleporters, super-teles are vastly underrated.
2:14 If a red tape takes 3.4 seconds to remove a level, to fully delevel a building at level 100 it would take 3 minutes and 40 seconds Which would just be devistating because A. They lose around 13 minutes of work in 3 B.the red tape recorder is suddenly good
A concept I always thought would be cool is that if a Sentry reached level 4, it would gain a set of flame tanks which had piss poor range, but if, lets say Spies or Pyros tried to get to it, the flame tanks would activate and spray fire all around, like a defensive mechanism.
Or perhaps there should be alternate PDAs that have different types fo sentries (oh wait the gunslinger kinda does that) without having to use different melees.
5:55 I'm picturing five Engineers and a Medic. Each Engineer whacking away at the Sentry to keep it healed and stocked, while Medic keeps a shield up and the Sentry melts literally every robot.
I love how your options for taking down a level 2880 sentry are either wait many times longer than the heat death of the universe, or 2 and a half hours
5:32 That just game me an idea to rebalance the Red Tape Recorder: What if we decreased the reverse rate of it so that it still is worse than the stock for destroying lvl 1 and 2 buildings but it is faster for destroying lvl 3 ones, making it better for dealing whith fully upgrader nests than the stock while being worse at not upgraded ones.
I'm sure that if they implemented a high enough level for dispensers, they could eventually gain a function to auto-refill sentry ammo alongside everything else
I am just imagining turning a corner and seeing an engineer place a sentry, but then it gains another barrel, then another rocket, then another barrel, and you sit there as you watch the barrels reach the heavens and nuke the entire map
I personally always thought of an upgrade where it would Gain 2 little fire spouts in the top or just above the "legs" and constantly rotate in a 360 degree motion, spewing fire to deter invisible spies the the sentry will effectively spy check itself
...I've been a part of the TF2 community for a while, and yet I'm just now learning from this video that the Wrangler has the sentry target-lock onto the center-mass of the enemy your cursor is hovering over instead of having it be uncontrolled bullet spray straight at your mouse. I suppose it's true that you can always learn something new.
5:43, No the Red tape record is not useless in the main game. When it was introduced it deleveled every 1.2 seconds. In the current version, just find a Gunslinger/Frontier Justice Engineer when he's roughly flamethower range from his Sentry Gun (not because you're going to use one, but it's a useful distance measuring stick). Ideally you'd just stab and sap since the gun doesn't even have the DPS of a Level 1 Sentry Gun, but maybe he's just standing where this isn't easy. Once he puts away his Gunslinger and switches to a weapon (say to kill a teammate) use the red tape recorder to disable his building. He could try to remove the sapper and leave his back open for a stab. He could just abandon his minisentry and chase you. If he took out his gun to deal with a teammate, he could shoot the teammate, but either your ally or the Engineer will win this fight before the gun is deconstructed. The slow speed of the deconstruction is a _good_ thing here since he can't get his crits until he either wins or loses. One thing good about minisnetires is that they're not a big investment so if they go down, it doesn't take long to get another one of those up. The slow deconstruction speed (and no, your destruction PDA won't work on a sapped building) means he's either stuck as a slow scout for the entire animation or he has to go to one predictable place.
For the sentry it could add new weapons with every 2 consecutive upgrades, for example, level 5 could add a slow firing 20mm cannon, level 7 could add a 40mm grenade launcher, level 9 could add a vulcan cannon, and level 11 could add a guided tank missile, level 13 could add grapeshot, level 15 could add a death ray, level 19 could add a Davy Crockett thermonuclear recoilless rifle, level 21 could add the main gun from an abrams tank, level 23 could add an intercontinental ballistic missile and level 25 could add a railgun.
lvl 27 loses all weapons and fires a targeting flares, that in 10 seconds, a orbital strike will land on the flares. with a 10 second cooldown between orbital strikes
At level 100 you get a nuke, 1000 gives you a casaba-howitzer, level 10000 is a weaponized particle accelerator, and at some point beyond that it just gets a gun that kills you in real life.
Now I only played TF2 for, like, 4000 hours as a teen, but I never considered level 4+ engineer buildings because I figured level 3 was strong enough that any higher levels would just be horrific
This would: - instantly make the Red-Tape Recorder the meta, hilariously enough - make last point impossible to capture - make Engineer and Spy the only playable classes
i also made some custom fan art for a level 4 sentry where it has 3 miniguns (with individual targeting) mounted on the ammo barrel and on the side 2 rocket launchers that do a direct it worth of damage and have tracking so enemy behind a wall and in range? still gets shot also it has a saw on top which would be used for melee and would do damage like the gunslinger taunt "kill" lastly to sort of balance it, it would cost 2000 metal and would take 1.5 mins to upgrade (wrench does not effect this) oh and it cant be sapped
heres my idea: level 4 will give you 1 barrel level 5 will give you a laser level 6 will give you a one missle rocket launcher and level 7 will give you a flame thrower for your sentry so your sentry will be very op with all that weaopns
I'd love to see you do a weapon concepts video. I think you could make some genuinely interesting alternative construction/deconstructuin PDAs or potentially even new customization slots such as equippable passives.
One could paint the teleporter cooldowns in various ways: half the previous with some rounding, 20% less reduction than the previous (50/40/32/25.6/etc). The Red Tape Recorder has the added effect of forcing the engineer to re-*upgrade* rather than simply repair, so the penalty to killspeed is fine, I'd think. And it'd be hilarious if the sentry just got taller
fun fact every time when preparing in payload if you put a dispenser/sentry/teleporter ,it would be maxed instantly so basically that an very op thing if that happened.
I think that since the 3 levels is strictly designed it would be neat if going beyond made more makeshift effects like a high level sentry having rockets that split into mini rockets or utilizing all 12 barrels it gets from level 2 but becoming less accurate and firing faster, basically it gets better but worse at the same time and I think that would be funny. Anyway fun video on doing some number crunching and whatnot, Saxton Hale vs a full team of mercs shudders in his boots at a level 100 building, even the ones that don't shoot.
Not really, a YER Spy stabs the Engineer and pops a sapper, then just starts shooting the Sentry. You'd need a bunch of Engineers and Pyros hanging around Sentries on last which... Well they'd win even at Lv3.
i would just love the sheer TERROR on an enemy team during your average day on 2fort when they walk into intel and theres just 2 level 100 sentries chilling there
I always imagined a level 4 sentry would have one last barrel pointing the opposite direction with a sensor to detect an invisible spy and maybe even disguised spies (but the second one only activates are a small amount of time so spy actually has a chance to sap it)
Red tape recorder is best for degrading buildings just before a rush when its right outside a spawn, as it costs more metal to fix the damage causes by RTR.
Red tape recorder would be useful here. Instead of having to chip through massive health pools, it would just down grade everything to level one, then destroy it. Still might take a minute, but would definitely be faster than a normal sapper.
Just imagine turning the corner into a literal wall of barrels and silos before simultaneously going deaf and being blinded followed briefly by a faceplant into heaven's doors...
I say 50 or maybe lower, should be max because of the seven digit thing, but each 3rd upgrade gives them something new they can do, and if all become their max level, and you put them next to each other, then the engineer basically smacks each of them with their wrench, … I guess they would all combine into a mech that the engineer can ride?
"100 orders of magnitude longer than the Heat Death of the Universe to actually destroy... Or 2 and a half hours if you use the Red Tape Recorder" Woah
After the universe heat death thing, I was expecting an "Sincerely, Austin." or "But hey, that's just a theory. A GAME THEORY! Thanks for watching" in the end XD
Level 4 as an option for certain buildings could be an interesting PDA alternative - at the drawback that the OTHER buildings besides the chosen one would be restricted to Level 1 or Level 2. (In MvM, that restriction would be gone, of course, and everything could be level 4) Another interesting topic might be "Combining two or more modes" and see how THOSE play out. As example would be a pretty straight forward idea: Attack/Defense Controlpoints and Payload, as both are about one team moving forward to take points while the other defends, where the switch is simply that taking one point in one mode simply results in then doing it in the different mode next (e.g. take Point A in CP-style, which spawns a payload you escort to Point B, which opens a door for Point C which is taken CP-style again).
Blu team pushing the cart: We got this in the bag and plus their engineer isn't even building anything The engineer in the last cap with his level 100 sentry:
I think we can shoehorn existing values into general functions to give diminishing returns to scale. The sentry could just be classified as "upgrades to even-number levels give ((2/3)^(1/(n/2))) increase to firing speed" and "upgrades to odd-number levels give rocket salvos a ((1/3)^(1/((n-3)/2))) decrease in reload time" where n is the level upgraded to. This generalizes upgrades so that level 2 sentries gain 2/3 base firing speed, level 4 gains 2/3 of the level 2 upgrade (that being 4/9) and so on, so that each upgrade brings some benefit while mimicking the decreasing returns to scale in the present "capped at three" system. Rockets have the "n-3" in the power to keep consistency with the fact that it falls on odd-number upgrades and level three is where the rocket salvo first appears, without needing to create a new value to reference. Dispensers could similarly increase their output asymptotically to 100% restore per second at level 100 after level 3 is reached. Aside from the other notes that teleporter values are not arbitrary, it could also decrease asymptotically to zero cooldown at level 100. Perhaps also change the health increases to be an algebraic series instead of a geometric one, in order to not make it so ridiculous at higher levels.
I like the idea of a level 4 sentry getting an airblast. It'd be slow firing, but perfectly timed and aimed for the projectile it decided to track, though it would still have no enemy movement prediction. This wouldn't help much against dedicated spam, but would be good for huntsman arrows and some uber situations.
![What if You Could Dual Wield Secondaries? [TF2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Fx2wGGkuBr4/mqdefault.jpg)
![What If Every Weapon Type Had Its Own Slot? [TF2]](/img/1.gif)
The teleport levels aren’t arbitrary. It reduces the cooldown by half, rounding to the nearing number.
Think it's 10 divided by tele level rounded
Assuming that you're right and we go by it then on lvl 4, the cooldown time would become 1.5 which rounds off to 2 and on lvl 5, the cooldown time would be exactly 1 second and afterwards any further upgrade would be completely pointless, as dividing 1 by 2 would be left with 0.5 which rounds off back to 1, which is coincidentally the number of levels you just decreased on the necessary upgrade before it becomes pointless when comparing it to the -10% scaling used in the video
@@IceeFish or you can say each upgrade does half values but just rounds the end result
lv 3 2.5 -> 3
lv 4 1.25 -> 1
lv 5 0.625 -> 1
lv 6 0.3125 -> 0
@@zegmakker5869 but do they maintain their actual time tho? Because if not then by lvl 6, the cooldown would be instant, or will it be 0.3125 seconds?
I thought it'd be 10 / tele level rounded to the nearest whole number so a level 4 is as good as a level 3 then level 5 is 2 seconds, you'd need to be level 7 to get about 1.44 seconds, but let's say it rounds up so we don't get a 0 tele speed, so level 10 = 1 second.
Given that each Sentry beeps at their respective level, then that means a level 100 Sentry would beep 100 times per turn
So it would be earrape every time it turns
@@shadowzone2588 Each beep also has a small time-frame where there is no beeping, and there is definitely not enough time for 100 beeps to happen by the time the sentry turns again. It's a constant stream of ear rape
@@pyro111100 what if it stacks aswell? :P
I didn’t know that, that’s pretty cool
@@Dark_Slayer3000NOO DONT GIVE HIM MOD IDEAS
6:15 "if you tried to sap a level 2880 building it would take around 100 orders of magnitude longer than the heat death of the universe to actually destroy"
*"Or, 2.5 hours using the red tape recorder"*
🤣
Finaly a use for the red tape
@@dj_izaco8435 ...what about recording the red tape?
making the red tape recorderthe most usefull version of the sapper if you could get a level 2800 building but the engi would still probably destroy the sapper
@@zvxk_gamezgonna reset a lot more progress than the normal sapper tho
There used to be a functional exploit using an enemy spy with the Red Tape Recorder that would let you continuously upgrade sentry guns from level 2 -> 3, but keep the health pool each time. You could create sentry guns with hundreds of thousands of HP.
Delfy’s uber sentry, right?
when your sapper's so bad it upgrades the engineer's sentry
Could also just use the wrangler
Still see buildings with very miniscule overheal from time to time.
@@NaN-noCZ Why not, Both?!
So even with the Jag, it would take around 11 minutes to upgrade a sentry to level 100. But adding even just 1 engineer would cut that time in more than half, as you'd also half the time running to the Resupply cabinet. Even with a 3 Class limit the total time goes down to around 4 minutes, which could make building on last a viable option with enough engineers.
Theoretically, you could probably make high level sentries in setup time with a whole team of Jag Engineers with highly optimised suiciding and teleporters.
wait, such level of teamwork is illegal
TF2 update:
* Removed teamwork as it is overpowered
Or move the building up after upgrading it near spawn (but it'll take a bit to fully upgrade itself after setting it down but it takes a small time)
I feel like 3 organized engies could feasibly build a mega nest on mid if they bank on lvl 17 dispensers, using setup by resupply to get 3 lvl17+ dispensers. The dispensers would completely negate travel time between the nest and resupply since they resupply faster than a jag can consume metal (not accounting ammo consumption, upgrade to lvl20 if thats a concern). It would also help the rest of the team a bit more to essentially have 3 resupply cabinets around mid
There’s the fixed upgrade animation to factor in
Since teamwide cooperation is a given, the other side could team up using uber, quick-fix's knockback resist (maybe crits) and a power class of your choice to clean out the engis, then have a spy just shut down the sentrys with his sapper. Walk on point, perhaps spam the enemy spawn, game over.
I always imagined a level 4 teleporter granting user a short speed boost of some kind after they exited it.
Level five over heal
Lvl 6: kills enemy spy without the Tele-frag also no recharge
Level 7 temporary two second Uber
Level Seven: 5 seconds of crits
Pop one of these bad boys next to BLU's spawn for an easy multi kill!
engineers who place their teleporters facing off a cliff while doing the taunt with a weird name i cant remember for the life of me where they just sit and drink beer are coping and seething that this isnt real
The final level of the sentry would also allow you to kill your teammates, and take no self-damage while sentry jumping.
Putting trollgineer to the next level
at that point it's just 23 players vs a god sentry
Final level?!
Who needs final levels.
No it just kills everything that dares move even through walls
at level 100 the sentry gains random crits
Fun fact, sentry guns periodically make a beeping noise, with more beeps at a time according to its level.
*Now imagine a level 100 sentry.*
I just had this very same thought... Also they rotate faster with higher levels, at least when tracking enemies.
level 1000: *ear breaking beep noice*
BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP BEEP x10 more
@@Mantafirefly instant lockon sentry
**AGGRESSIVE MICROWAVE BEEPING**
level 100 sentry should be a new community boss raid
Level 100 sentry boss walkthrough:
1. sap it
2. wait ~20 years
3. Done!!!! :D
@@herald246 Level 100 sentry boss speedrun technique:
1. sap it with the red tape recorder
2. wait 340 seconds
3. Done
Ahem
Sentry buster mvm
@@rylangraham9748 Tis' but a scratch.
Remember, that thing has billions of HP
@@All-star_Giga_Gargantuar glitched sentry buster horde from ghost town w/ crit rpg.
It would be interesting if every level, instead of making the health insane, it steadily becomes a sentry bunker with armour plates the enemy has to destroy before they can get to the actual sentry. The higher the level, the crazier your tower defense sentry gets; to a point that people can hide inside the sentry defenses for protection. Same thing with the dispenser, to a point where your buildings become part of the map geometry.
that would be really un-fun to fight against
@@CodeMan-tj3rt and thats worse than a sentry with billions of hp? Remember, this isnt meant to be fun or balanced, its supposed to be funny, and this is hilarious.
@@Calvin.Hobbes98 you could run this on say a X10 server where buildings can be upgraded to level 30, to compensate for people chucking 30 pills in a volley at you sentry nest.
i think upgrading the serty should get more trypes of guns/projectiles
since rocket is one
you could put flamethowers, shotgun, sniper rfiles, arrows, pills, the 2 scout baseballs
now for the dispenser, while heal get things, spy gains cloaks, but what if start to give more bars to the other classes? jarate, machetes, balls, gas, jetpack, after that will start adding buffs, then will start to give the damage for free for soldier and sniper, and finally uber
Nah, 10 Billion health ist better
3:32
Actually, I see another way to look at this. Half of 10 is 5, but what's half of 5? Well, obviously that's 2.5, which is then rounded up to 3. I feel that this would be more accurate scaling than what you provided, but that's just my opinion.
half life 3 confirmed?
That would also mean it's functional max level is level 5 since everything beyond that would be 1 second (1/2 = 0.5, round up to 1)
@@alexsinclair5358 oof, guess we’re not getting an instant teleporter
I actually saw it as 10/level rounded
10/1 is 10
10/2 is 5
10/3 is 3.33... rounded is 3.
This would reach 1 second at level 7 and 0 seconds at level 21. So, a bit more powerful.
Suggestion for new tele upgrade progression:
Lvl1: 10 sec
Lvl2: 5 sec (-50%)
Lvl3: 3 sec [-50*0.8] (-40%)
Lvl4: 2,04 sec [-40*0.8] (-32%)
Lvl5: 1,52 sec [32%*0.8] (-25,6%) rounding to 2nd after comma from now on. Btw this level 5 is similar to other results but it's no longer the limit ;)
Lvl6: 1,21 sec [...] (-20,48%)
Lvl7: 1,01 sec [...] (-16,38%)
Lvl8: 0,88 sec [...] (-13,1%)
Lvl9: 0,79 sec [...] (-10,48%)
Lvl10: 0,72 sec [...] (-8,38%)
And so on.
This way, you don't have useless upgrades anymore :D
They only get progressively weaker :p
Level 20 Sentry HP in the couple thousands. TF2C's Randomizer servers actually randomize building HP along with tons of other stuff, so I've experienced this on both ends.
imagine trying to move a lv 100 sentry and you just spend 8 days+ straight hammering it with the Jag
Can't speed up re-deploy upgrades though, so you'd have to just let it sit. You can only boost the initial level 1 construction animation on re-deploys.
If you're hitting your buildings after redeploying you're just an idiot.
Buildings take 1 second extra to redeploy for every level they have. A level 100 sentry would take about 2 minutes to redeploy.
what if instead of upgrading the physical sentry with the wrench, the sentry itself gets upgraded whenever it gets a kill or gets repaired. Like 1% more damage per kill and 1% more max health per wrench swing. So every time it gets kills, it's a lot more stronger than the last and so a lot more dangerous if it's not dealth with. And if it's not killed in one attack, it gets even beefier. That'd be kinda cool and would reward the engineer if they got good placement and have a willing wrench.
+1% is not much, and players got way too good. You'd need at least a 10% boost to make it really good, I'd say. Also, one spy and ... Well cry.
so... you wanna give the sentry saiyan DNA?
I wonder how broken would buildings be in MVM...
In MVM, Engineer can place already fully upgraded buildings during set-up. In normal game that would be at level 3, but with no cap on levels that could possibly mean... whatever highest number could possibly exist.
The point is - just one Engineer could perhaps be able to deal with all the waves in MVM by just placing few buildings, since effectively infinite damage could remove from existence basically anything.
Granted, at some point numbers would overflow and probably be set to 0... or crash servers trying to host those abominations.
I mean set up time is practically infinite of the whole group cooperates so
I think it would be a upgrade. So you could go to just before breaking the game.
SENTERY BUSTER DOWN
Well the sentry would have infinite health, infinite damage output, and infinite rockets, so it would kill anything in one tick, cannot take damage, and it would crash the server every time it shoots at something. (Or when the engineer presses the right mouse button whilst holding the wrangler.)
Yes but engineer bots
1:06, the Demoknight just looks out into the horizon, accepting his fate. :(
Level 4: Sentry gains permeant wrangler shield providing 80% damage reduction.
Level 5: Sentry guns replaced with dual flak cannons that deal 50 explosive damage per shot
Level 6: Sentry gains tracks and cockpit seat allowing engineer to drive it around the map.
Level 7: Missiles replaced with Katyusha rocket launcher allowing for across the map bombardment.
Level 8: Obelisk of Light style laser defence system that insta kills all nearby enemies.
Level 9: Mobile empowerment field that grants all nearby allies healing and permanent crits
Level 10: Tactical nuclear missile launcher that insta kills everything on the map and leaves a cloud of radiation that causes all players not in a sentry tank and not on the Engineers team to take constant radiation damage at all times.
0/10 no flamethrower upgrade.
@@jerr4rd-4lways-d4-b3st That comes if you upgrade the mini sentry.
4 makes sense but I think 5 would make it have a faster turning speed.... actually If you think like an engeneer your in the right direction but putting upgrades far too soon. the flack could be a level 8 to 10 thing with stuff like: Faster bullets and more ammo capacity or even a ring of fire for Spy defense. I could type all day but there are my ideas,
Engie: become Death destroyer of multiverses.
Unexpected Brotherhood of Nod
With enough polishing this actually sounds like a cool idea for a server. Perhaps instead of a flat upgrade rate you could have an upgrade curve that provides diminishing returns after the 10th upgrade or so in order to prevent too OP buildings from being constructed.
Or just cap everything at 25, (maybe cap health at level 10?) since at that point a sentry is dealing an Overhealed!Heavy amount of DPS, Dispensers are restoring everything per second, and teleporters are portals.
I’m pretty sure the teleporter recharge is halved and then rounded up. 10/2 is 5, 5/2 is 2.5 and rounds up to 3, level 4 would be 2, level 5 would be 1 second, and from there it would remain 1 second recharge
"it will take 15 years for a sapper to break this sentry"
red tape recorder: look at what they have to do to mimic a fraction of our power
I actually did the math for this and found it to take 3 minutes and 40 seconds for a rtr to fully deconstruct a level 100 (I have a coment on this but I don’t think anyone will see it)
@@maywolf9443 really? I though red tape was suppost to be slower
@@ThePikminCaptain the red tape does a flat rate per level while the sapper deals damage
A sentery gains hp exponentially but levels at a flat rate of 1
So the sapper quickly gets completely obsolete at around only level 4 or 5 to my knowledge (I could be wrong has been awhile sense I looked into this)
I checked that last part is definitely wrong
Entire video:
Level 1 noob sentry vs level 200 sentry mafia boss
That's how Texas works
cause everythings bigger in texas
With enough teleporter upgrades, your character appears on the other end long before you even decided to take it. It shatters every concept you have of destiny, causality, and free-will. This existential crisis, when inflicted on the enemy team, causes an instant win. Much like normal teleporters, super-teles are vastly underrated.
Lmao
Outer wilds theme kazoo version plays
imagine if someone made this hypothetical upgrades into a real mod for mvm or something
I always thought the teleporters decreased time by 1/2, but since 1/2 of 5 is 2.5 it rounded to 3.
Hey, look! We can't cap now because theres a level 2147483647 Sentry!
>it gets sapped
@@shybandit521 The engi crits you with his Jag and unsaps the sentry.
@@shybandit521 i am zhe spy
Ah yes, the level 2^31-1 sentry.
@@sirtangerine1465 Your Eternal Reward: It's showtime!
2:14
If a red tape takes 3.4 seconds to remove a level,
to fully delevel a building at level 100 it would take 3 minutes and 40 seconds
Which would just be devistating because
A. They lose around 13 minutes of work in 3
B.the red tape recorder is suddenly good
Underrated
That’s not how time works.
It would be 340 SECONDS.
Convert that by /60.
You get 5 minutes and 40 seconds.
@@Aaa-vp6ug you right
That is stupid of me, my bad
Spy: Laughs in red tape recorder
At least that was addressed in the video!
A concept I always thought would be cool is that if a Sentry reached level 4, it would gain a set of flame tanks which had piss poor range, but if, lets say Spies or Pyros tried to get to it, the flame tanks would activate and spray fire all around, like a defensive mechanism.
Or perhaps there should be alternate PDAs that have different types fo sentries (oh wait the gunslinger kinda does that) without having to use different melees.
"what gets increased once you upgrade each building?" (Great Blue).
Yeah it's factual but it don't get the VIEWS
1:45 you just explained the magic of compound interest to all your viewers, big W
2:22 It can handle numbers that big. For a sticky to explode on it's own, you'd wait until the heat-death of the universe.
5:55
I'm picturing five Engineers and a Medic. Each Engineer whacking away at the Sentry to keep it healed and stocked, while Medic keeps a shield up and the Sentry melts literally every robot.
2:01
Seems like pretty balanced numbers to me. Let’s get this idea shipped off to the TF2 devs.
I love how your options for taking down a level 2880 sentry are either wait many times longer than the heat death of the universe, or 2 and a half hours
A small price to pay to avoid using the Red-Tape Recorder
3:22 that sniper death made me chuckle
5:32 That just game me an idea to rebalance the Red Tape Recorder: What if we decreased the reverse rate of it so that it still is worse than the stock for destroying lvl 1 and 2 buildings but it is faster for destroying lvl 3 ones, making it better for dealing whith fully upgrader nests than the stock while being worse at not upgraded ones.
Then it would basically be a direct upgrade
@@youraveragerobloxkid but it will not be faster on lvl 1/2 or minis, so sidegrade probably
@@Землекопсадовод who uses sappers on minis
@@youraveragerobloxkid why not?
@@Землекопсадовод umm, minis aren't usually the kind you see in nests
I'm sure that if they implemented a high enough level for dispensers, they could eventually gain a function to auto-refill sentry ammo alongside everything else
I am just imagining turning a corner and seeing an engineer place a sentry, but then it gains another barrel, then another rocket, then another barrel, and you sit there as you watch the barrels reach the heavens and nuke the entire map
I personally always thought of an upgrade where it would Gain 2 little fire spouts in the top or just above the "legs" and constantly rotate in a 360 degree motion, spewing fire to deter invisible spies the the sentry will effectively spy check itself
Sentry projectiles hurt the engineer
I never thought I would ever see, or even think of the words ever being strong together, “The sentry will effectively spy-check itself”
...I've been a part of the TF2 community for a while, and yet I'm just now learning from this video that the Wrangler has the sentry target-lock onto the center-mass of the enemy your cursor is hovering over instead of having it be uncontrolled bullet spray straight at your mouse. I suppose it's true that you can always learn something new.
5:43, No the Red tape record is not useless in the main game. When it was introduced it deleveled every 1.2 seconds. In the current version, just find a Gunslinger/Frontier Justice Engineer when he's roughly flamethower range from his Sentry Gun (not because you're going to use one, but it's a useful distance measuring stick). Ideally you'd just stab and sap since the gun doesn't even have the DPS of a Level 1 Sentry Gun, but maybe he's just standing where this isn't easy. Once he puts away his Gunslinger and switches to a weapon (say to kill a teammate) use the red tape recorder to disable his building. He could try to remove the sapper and leave his back open for a stab. He could just abandon his minisentry and chase you. If he took out his gun to deal with a teammate, he could shoot the teammate, but either your ally or the Engineer will win this fight before the gun is deconstructed. The slow speed of the deconstruction is a _good_ thing here since he can't get his crits until he either wins or loses. One thing good about minisnetires is that they're not a big investment so if they go down, it doesn't take long to get another one of those up. The slow deconstruction speed (and no, your destruction PDA won't work on a sapped building) means he's either stuck as a slow scout for the entire animation or he has to go to one predictable place.
12 years later a spy will randomly destroy my teleporter and get free crits to kill my innocent sniper.
Your TF2 content is always so creative - keep it up:D
Please continue doing these concept videos, they are so fun to watch!
For the sentry it could add new weapons with every 2 consecutive upgrades, for example, level 5 could add a slow firing 20mm cannon, level 7 could add a 40mm grenade launcher, level 9 could add a vulcan cannon, and level 11 could add a guided tank missile, level 13 could add grapeshot, level 15 could add a death ray, level 19 could add a Davy Crockett thermonuclear recoilless rifle, level 21 could add the main gun from an abrams tank, level 23 could add an intercontinental ballistic missile and level 25 could add a railgun.
lvl 27 loses all weapons and fires a targeting flares, that in 10 seconds, a orbital strike will land on the flares. with a 10 second cooldown between orbital strikes
What is this ballons tower defense?
At level 100 you get a nuke, 1000 gives you a casaba-howitzer, level 10000 is a weaponized particle accelerator, and at some point beyond that it just gets a gun that kills you in real life.
@@thelegend8570 at lvl 100000 you get a death star laser, but a single shot uses all of your ammo
@@thelegend8570 at level 1000000 it gets a star destroying laser
Under this hypothetical scenario the red tape recorded would become somewhat useful.
Now I only played TF2 for, like, 4000 hours as a teen, but I never considered level 4+ engineer buildings because I figured level 3 was strong enough that any higher levels would just be horrific
This would:
- instantly make the Red-Tape Recorder the meta, hilariously enough
- make last point impossible to capture
- make Engineer and Spy the only playable classes
Would this technically mean you could upgrade mini-sentries?
I don't think so, as mini sentry's can't be upgraded, but you can argue that their level cap is 0
i also made some custom fan art for a level 4 sentry where it has 3 miniguns (with individual targeting) mounted on the ammo barrel and on the side 2 rocket launchers that do a direct it worth of damage and have tracking so enemy behind a wall and in range? still gets shot also it has a saw on top which would be used for melee and would do damage like the gunslinger taunt "kill" lastly to sort of balance it, it would cost 2000 metal and would take 1.5 mins to upgrade (wrench does not effect this) oh and it cant be sapped
There should be a server for this kind of stuff. Also, I don't know why I find 0:18 funny.
A level 100 sentry would likely turn into an Infantry fighting vehicle.
heres my idea: level 4 will give you 1 barrel level 5 will give you a laser level 6 will give you a one missle rocket launcher and level 7 will give you a flame thrower for your sentry so your sentry will be very op with all that weaopns
Why the flamethrower? Is it gonna spycheck for itself
now with the leaks, we can actually see what lvl 4 sentry would look like
I'd love to see you do a weapon concepts video. I think you could make some genuinely interesting alternative construction/deconstructuin PDAs or potentially even new customization slots such as equippable passives.
One could paint the teleporter cooldowns in various ways: half the previous with some rounding, 20% less reduction than the previous (50/40/32/25.6/etc).
The Red Tape Recorder has the added effect of forcing the engineer to re-*upgrade* rather than simply repair, so the penalty to killspeed is fine, I'd think.
And it'd be hilarious if the sentry just got taller
My own silly tf2 idea: Tf2 x2
It’s like x10, but instead of everything being ridiculous. Everything is just slightly *off*.
Call it ×i (times imaginary) for "slightly off"
Level three sentry: More gun act 3
Level four sentry: More gun requiem
wrong about teleporters. a more healthy way to look at this would be having an increase rate that decreases by 20% every time it gets upgraded.
Except you're both quite stupid. 10/2=5 5/2=2.5 (round to a whole number for ease: 3)
fun fact every time when preparing in payload if you put a dispenser/sentry/teleporter ,it would be maxed instantly
so basically that an very op thing if that happened.
deal with it
MVM*
2:06 is not true. It is way less than a mini sentry at 1% health
I think that since the 3 levels is strictly designed it would be neat if going beyond made more makeshift effects like a high level sentry having rockets that split into mini rockets or utilizing all 12 barrels it gets from level 2 but becoming less accurate and firing faster, basically it gets better but worse at the same time and I think that would be funny.
Anyway fun video on doing some number crunching and whatnot, Saxton Hale vs a full team of mercs shudders in his boots at a level 100 building, even the ones that don't shoot.
if it really happened it would unbalance the game making the sentry even more immortal in a way
No way. Really????
Not really, a YER Spy stabs the Engineer and pops a sapper, then just starts shooting the Sentry.
You'd need a bunch of Engineers and Pyros hanging around Sentries on last which...
Well they'd win even at Lv3.
This is the reason why there’s not a level 100 building it takes 13 years to destroy but only around 15 minutes to build
well actually i've only considered the possibility of having more sentries per engineer rather then more levels on a singular sentry
Reminds me of those 4 sentries on Meet the Engineer
@@brisloviayt829 engie probably called up his engie pals to build multiple sentries in one spot in that video
there are commonly maps where they let you build multiple sentries actually (most commonly 3 sentries per engineer)
i would just love the sheer TERROR on an enemy team during your average day on 2fort when they walk into intel and theres just 2 level 100 sentries chilling there
I would love to see a similar video, but where any meter that fills up would have no cap. Imaging 100 eyelander heads, or a baby face with 200% boost
a babyface blaster with 1000% boost would move faster than light
I always imagined a level 4 sentry would have one last barrel pointing the opposite direction with a sensor to detect an invisible spy and maybe even disguised spies (but the second one only activates are a small amount of time so spy actually has a chance to sap it)
Now I'm picturing a whole team of Spies carrying a gigantic Sapper to destroy the uberbuildings.
Red tape recorder is best for degrading buildings just before a rush when its right outside a spawn, as it costs more metal to fix the damage causes by RTR.
The concept of MvM upgrade mechanic in normal play.... *The insanity.*
Red tape recorder would be useful here. Instead of having to chip through massive health pools, it would just down grade everything to level one, then destroy it. Still might take a minute, but would definitely be faster than a normal sapper.
Glad to see your channel finally popping off. I was watching a video only a few days ago and now I've seen you've gained like 10k subs since then.
2:08 Red tape recorder be like: it's finally my time to shine!
13 years is still shorter than the time before the next update
the teleporter level 333: teleports you to an alternate dimension where gabe knows how to count to 3
the red tape recorder would finaly have a use
"And if that doesn't work, use more gun"
"And even if THAT doesn't work, use even MORE gun"
so basically engineer finds the A-10 Avenger cannon and fixes it onto his sentry gun.
*BBBBBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.*
Just imagine turning the corner into a literal wall of barrels and silos before simultaneously going deaf and being blinded followed briefly by a faceplant into heaven's doors...
I say 50 or maybe lower, should be max because of the seven digit thing, but each 3rd upgrade gives them something new they can do, and if all become their max level, and you put them next to each other, then the engineer basically smacks each of them with their wrench, … I guess they would all combine into a mech that the engineer can ride?
2:06 Ok That Was Funny Not Gonna Lie
Imagine if the sentry could hit lvl 4 and it creates a ring of fire around it like the hue long heater
Engineer: After 160000 metal later I finally got to level 40! Time to move this gear up.
*Proceeds to build a fucking railcannon*
3:30i think it's always a 50% but because half 5 is 2.5 it gets round up to 3
This would make your average 2fort match a whole lot more interesting.
I feel like this would be an interesting server plugin...
"100 orders of magnitude longer than the Heat Death of the Universe to actually destroy...
Or 2 and a half hours if you use the Red Tape Recorder"
Woah
After the universe heat death thing, I was expecting an "Sincerely, Austin." or "But hey, that's just a theory. A GAME THEORY! Thanks for watching" in the end XD
If you sapped a level 100 sentry during the heavy update (third major update in the history of tf2) it would only be detsroyed nowadays
" you get several multitudes degrees longer then the heatdeath of the universe but it only takes 2 and a half hours with the red tape recorder "
If this were to ever happen engineer gameplay would be that one hammering video
heres an idea: combine sprays to make a large picture, just gather three friends and make a damn mural.
I died when you said that about level 30 the sentry gun is just VOMITING OUT A SOLID STREAM OF DAMAGE
Level 4 as an option for certain buildings could be an interesting PDA alternative - at the drawback that the OTHER buildings besides the chosen one would be restricted to Level 1 or Level 2. (In MvM, that restriction would be gone, of course, and everything could be level 4)
Another interesting topic might be "Combining two or more modes" and see how THOSE play out. As example would be a pretty straight forward idea: Attack/Defense Controlpoints and Payload, as both are about one team moving forward to take points while the other defends, where the switch is simply that taking one point in one mode simply results in then doing it in the different mode next (e.g. take Point A in CP-style, which spawns a payload you escort to Point B, which opens a door for Point C which is taken CP-style again).
There is one other stat that sentries get with level: Resistance to Minigun ramp up (and scattergun resistance if I remember right).
Blu team pushing the cart: We got this in the bag and plus their engineer isn't even building anything
The engineer in the last cap with his level 100 sentry:
I think we can shoehorn existing values into general functions to give diminishing returns to scale. The sentry could just be classified as "upgrades to even-number levels give ((2/3)^(1/(n/2))) increase to firing speed" and "upgrades to odd-number levels give rocket salvos a ((1/3)^(1/((n-3)/2))) decrease in reload time" where n is the level upgraded to. This generalizes upgrades so that level 2 sentries gain 2/3 base firing speed, level 4 gains 2/3 of the level 2 upgrade (that being 4/9) and so on, so that each upgrade brings some benefit while mimicking the decreasing returns to scale in the present "capped at three" system. Rockets have the "n-3" in the power to keep consistency with the fact that it falls on odd-number upgrades and level three is where the rocket salvo first appears, without needing to create a new value to reference.
Dispensers could similarly increase their output asymptotically to 100% restore per second at level 100 after level 3 is reached. Aside from the other notes that teleporter values are not arbitrary, it could also decrease asymptotically to zero cooldown at level 100. Perhaps also change the health increases to be an algebraic series instead of a geometric one, in order to not make it so ridiculous at higher levels.
Lv 250 sentry: fuses with dispencer to make *_A FUCKEN TANK_*
I like the idea of a level 4 sentry getting an airblast. It'd be slow firing, but perfectly timed and aimed for the projectile it decided to track, though it would still have no enemy movement prediction. This wouldn't help much against dedicated spam, but would be good for huntsman arrows and some uber situations.