When I was younger I always thought the "solemn vow"had a downside that you couldn't melee with it because of the description and I didn't question it for like a year
@@epickid4268 Medic's best self-defense is his melee, because his main weapons have weak damage or sustain. Taking his best self-defense away leaves him to his potentially, (probably), incompetent team. This makes Medic even less combatively capable, and more team reliant, maybe he'd be better for coordinating, like for strategizing picks with their teammates, because he can scope out enemies' health for his team, but is capable of getting blindsighted and overwhelmed, kinda like spy (who can also see enemy players' health)
Something extra about Pyroland is that the blood particules used for fall damage are changed to the way more noticible balloons, meaning you could detect Invisible Spies more easily by using a Pyroland weapon.
In addition, certain map props are just not there in Pyroland, so while you may not be able to see the mini sentry tucked in a bush until the killcam shows it to you pedrominecraft2008 the gibus pyroland stock demoman can.
Also, a lot of Pyroland Spy deathcries last longer than usual, so when they pop a DR, their extended voice lines follow them much more easily. Especially if you trigger their DR with a melee kill, because then it's that laugh for about 3 seconds.
Appropriately, that would only happen if the scout snuck up on the pyro or the pyro flubbed so badly not even the enhanced flamethrower damage couldn't save them. Very accurate to the source material.@@ZorotheGallade
Something else you forgot to mention about Pyroland items is that the altered Pyroland maps also tend to have less visual clutter. Less bushes, brighter colors that more clearly contrast player characters, it both lets you see more and understand more if you can get used to Pyroland. It's banned in competitive for these reasons.
As someone who plays 2fort all the time, i agree. The red balcony is significantly harder to see into than the blu balcony, but the provision goggles completely removes that issue.
Except when you are playing sniper and someone starts attacking you, every time you get hit balloons pop out of you and they obstruct your view, I lost more than one headshot due to the pyrovision goggles, I still refuse to remove them due to the drip
Also worth noting that the sharp dresser has a unique backstab kill icon, meaning that opponents immediately know you have it instead of say, the kunai
The one thing about the Christmas bell cosmetics that could be a downside is that if the spy themself is wherein them, the sound still plays while cloaked, even while disguised and cloaked, and do can give away your position much like the apsap, and I’ve definitely taken advantage of done spy’s more festive nature like this.
You sure about that? Recently, I cloaked as Spy using the Reindoonibeanie (which has Christmas bells) and the bell sound was muted during the time. It was even muted during disguise (unless the player I'm disguising as is wearing the same hat as I do). Although, it doesn't change the fact that it would give away the position you're at if you're not cloak or disguise. So it's still a downgrade compared to no cosmetics
Also there's the Hotrod. If a spy pulls out their sapper (which is a "building") while disguised as a Hotrod engie the visor will flip down, which on a real engie would only be while hauling a building or having a blueprint out, something the spy can not pretend to do.
@@sauliusvitkauskas8741 In the code it is, hence the hotrod disguise interaction. Also why the homewrecker 1-shots sappers, because of the damage bonus vs buildings.
You forget that the Box Trot has the subtle upgrade that you can use it to walk past sentries without being fired because it moved your hitbox under the firing line of the turrents - but not the rockets -
I feel like a special mention should've been given to the fact that some item sets had an actual statistical advantage in the form of stat bonuses for a good while, until that got replaced with leaving calling cards. Of note, the Croc-o-Style Kit gave you *headshot immunity*.
Speaking of "calling cards", I would say that's a direct downgrade too; If melee reskin is an upgrade because the enemy don't know what class you are, this is the opposite; the enemy team not only knows what class you are but also know what weapons you're using, most of the time more than 2 weapons
Tank buster set used to give you 20% sentry damage resistance. That shit is crazy and it get's more ridiculous when you remember that it also gave you another 50% sentry damage resistance because of the backup
@@LoraLoibu yeah I drop frames hard with it. like it legit freezes the screen for maybe 1/5 of a second, which doesn't sound like much until you realize that it attacks every 4/5 seconds, making my screen frozen for 1/4 of the time.
I haven't had the frsme drop issuse (that sounds awful), but i ddi install a mod thst gets riid of the flash of white every time you fire thr Dragon's Fury
The Hotrod for the engineer has an animation where the visor flips down when he is holding a building/about to build. Since the spy's sapper counts as a building, a spy holding the sapper is in the "about to build" state. This essentially means that if you ever see an engineer with the hotrod visor down and he's not holding a toolbox, it's automatically a spy.
You mentioned the Solemn Vow, but The Amputator used to also be a straight upgrade, being identical to the Bonesaw except having the radius healing while taunting that it has today, and while technically not a stat on the Amputator itself, equipping it and the Crusader's Crossbow gave the item set bonus of +1 self healing per second.
@@theadministrator.6632The fact that you can’t die to headshots speaks volumes That and the danger shield’a inherent bullet resistance means that it takes two shots minimum to kill you. (Or a single machine full charge bodyshot)
The Ace Special. The downside is of course you don't get that nice translucent flames of the Phlog, but that's a small price to pay for enemies to not instintively run away from you or attack you for fear of getting their shit airblasted.
1:30 The Amputator on release also used to be a straight upgrade, it had the healing taunt and no downside. Also I would definitely add the orange "Smalltown Bringdown" weapon skin for the Rocket Launcher, I have died before because I thought my enemy was foolishly wielding a useless rocket jumper
The main disadvantage of Christmas hats is not just the fact the footsteps are a tad more noticeable but also the fact that it becomes worse the less people are wearing them. If you're the only person on your team wearing a Christmas hat and jingling all the way, people will know that you specifically are coming when they hear footsteps - e.g. if you're a demo with a sticky trap set up and people hear you walking around, they'll know there's a demo nearby rather than another player (or even a teammate) whose making footstep noises.
and theres also the fact that you can tell what class is wearing it from the walk cycles, scout is by far the easiest to listen for makes it near impossible to flank an alert player with headphones
It's hilarious to troll ppl with the Baby Face's Blaster at full boost with the Bootie Time elf shoes on :D. And The Jingler hat :D. AND the Snissmass noisemaker.
The Frying pan bonk can actually work in your team's favour too since the loud sounds can make it harder for enemies to hear other sounds like decloaks or explosions.
My favorite use of any hat with Jingle all the way is that when I'm 1v1ing and I'm winning, it becomes a very ominous noise when the player you're fighting can't see you.
@@ghastlygibus2121 keyword is "might": if the scout gets to you from behind, it would be easy to hit you 2 times to kill you before you realize whats going on and burn em to a crisp. As Great Blue said at the start of the video with the Market Gardner/Shovel comparison, it only is a strict upgrade if it has no downsides compared to stock and only upsides. Taking 3 times more damage from the scout's melee IS a downside, making the item set technically not a direct upgrade.
@JaMM I mean the scout could have already just shot him to death, at that point, so yea it's technically not objectively upside, but the fact that a scout might try and hit you with Melee over shooting you with his better weapon is more then enough to make up for that
Whatever the practically, it still isn't technically a strict upgrade, which is what the video is concerning. Still a brilliant video however, don't get me wrong.
The existence of "Jingle all the way" has definitely granted me a few extra kills on Scouts, because they more than any other class tend to rotate to and from cover during a fight, and the loud christmas noises they make give away where they'll appear from next. Especially useful for a Soldier who can pre-fire a rocket right where the Scout's gonna be.
@@goshdarnedbatman9969 You can swap sides with a simple key bind mid-match. It's pretty nice to have and can come in clutch in some maps. I think original vs stock is map and playstyle dependent. Like pocket soldiers benefit more from stock while roamers benefit from original.
Australium weapons are also upgrades, as they conceal whether a kill was a critical hit or not from the killfeed. Usually crits have a red background, but the australium weapons instead have the golden background, crit or not. This can be sort of important for stuff like a Kritzkrieg against a non-communicating team. Multi-class reskins also have the upside/downside of other classes being able to pick them up to switch weapons, as opposed to only your own class.
Imagine if all looping taunts were made slightly louder and had some visual added that stretched out for a ways. Or if their cancels were made to take longer some.
Apex Legends just straight up made a feature called anti-peek where you won’t be able to see any players that aren’t in LOS of your model, could be useable.
@@mrrooter601 While I agree with you it's not much different than culling players in a game like Rust with large maps and upwards of 200+ character models with unique clothes/skins/models running around at the same time. It's wholly unnecessary for TF2 as there's a lot less to cull (unless you're counting unusuals/cosmetics) to improve framerates let alone fix a niche cornerpeeking exploit. It'd be a bit goofy to see a scout suddenly pop into existence at the exact corner while peeking but if they managed to implement it into the spaghetti w/o breaking 300 other things and make it smooth then it'd be a nice compatibility feature at the very least.
Heavy also has the Sammy Cap cosmetic, which drops a sandvich on the floor when you die! It can work in favor of both teams but it has to be the only cosmetic that *directly* impacts gameplay on a regular basis
Honestly kinda surprised he mentioned the old Solemn Vow but not the old item sets, as those were quite literally Pay-to-Win and were made specifically to be pay-to-win and especially for the Sniper one they were pretty powerful at that, if you could handle using the piss rifle with no headshots you could just have what is basically a guarantee to win Sniper duels.
I’d say certain Halloween cosmetics like the Horseless Headless Horseman’s Head and the Corpse Carrier could be considered direct upgrades since they make it harder for snipers to discern where your head hitbox is. HHH’s Head is really big and completely hides your actual head hitbox and the corpse carrier literally gives you a second head that can be confusing to snipers that are scoped in while you’re sprinting and jumping around
All pyrovision items are apparently slightly pay to win. They're banned in comp formats (developer intended ruleset or not), because they affect some materials on some maps, and I think a few props making them invisible, and you can spot enemies. You do however have the tradeoff (or upside if you like it) of being in pyroland, so have fun with an apparently broken upside while you push the payload cart along the cotton candy rollercoaster
@@mouthwide0pen accidentally forcing all Pyro mains to run pyroland series cosmetics for competitive would be extremely funny as a concept but I'm glad they just banned it instead
That pumpkin head and the monoculous eye hats are arguably also an upgrade because it makes it harder for snipers on the opposing team to land a headshot since the hit box is smaller than the hat
The detecting of Dead Ringer spies with the Holy Mackerel could be a positive, but I've found that it's more a hindrance due to the fact that it not only alerts enemies that you're in a fight, it also alerts the enemies of who's being hit, so the Medic could help them, another teammate can go to their help, and other negative attributes.
Also alerts what weapon you're using so they know there's no bat projectile coming nor any extra atomizer jumps even if u cant clearly see what weapon the scout is holding or even where he is exactly.
Although this might be opinion-based, I feel like the Hatless Hats, more directly the Ritzy Rick's, give you a slight advantage. A sniper's brimmed hat feels like it pokes out before any of his limbs when scoped, getting rid of that could possibly cut down an enemy snipers' reaction time to you when you peek. It's snake oil I've swallowed a long time ago, but it still feels real.
Pyrovision items are also banned in comp purely because certain maps in pyrovision have certain bushes and other hiding spots removed/moved, plus they make all voicelines louder, meaning you can hear the enemy team better. In summary competitive players are really neurotic and weird.
The Demoman’s Shin Shredder’s completely hides the bootlegger if both are equipped. Honestly, it’s probably not gonna net you more than one kill, but it is impossible to tell if you’re a hybrid or complete demoknight while wearing it.
The Strange Dead ringer is a very rare case of being a true “Pay to lose” item, as a unique dead ringer won’t have the chance to announce to the entire server that you faked your death for the 100th time.
Great video, though I do dispute the notion that most of these are 'pay to win' since... well, the phrase was coined specifically to refer to mechanics that you Must pay money for to gain an unfair advantage - and pretty much all these weapons can be acquired very easily for free or through low-level trading.
You forgot the Snack Attack. It is basically just a silent sapper, therefore making pybros notice it less often. Pretty small advantage, but considering it costs 2.5 keys and is a direct upgrade from stock, it should be in the video.
Another thing about the green flames is that it could be put on the flog, tuning flog flames into normal ones, sometimes solders won’t shoot at you because they think you can reflect :))
"The frying pan's noise can give away your position" If I equip the frying pan, the last thing on my mind is "I must remain silent to sneak up on them" The frying pan says "I am approaching your location with devious intentions and there is nothing you can do to stop me"
The Meet the Medic taunt is pay to win because you can use it in the water to broadcast a loud splash noise to the entire server. Use it in conjunction with a spy and you can drown out his decloak sound. (Joking ofc who actually does this)
I'm surprised with the taunts you didn't mention the current meta with the pyro to jump into walls using the Balloonibouncer. Also, I can live with the Ap-Sap being significantly less stealthy. It's kinda the joke and I also play Spy so infrequently (and badly) that it doesn't really affect me that much anyway! 😅
However, they can be used to indicate that somebody is watching a corner in third person, potentially warding off cautious players. Or even causing an enemy with splash damage to waste extra time trying to kill you could buy your team valuable seconds.
I would argue that the Rainblower is not a direct upgrade as Pyroland has a minor downside, namely every so slightly reducing your effective field of view. While in Pyroland, the edges of your screen are covered with a white edge, and there is also has a distortion effect near the edges. While these effects are incredibly minor, it could block the view of a threat that was only barely visible in your peripheral view. Now the times these matter is going to be incredibly niche, as you are unlikely to notice such threats even if they are technically visible, but the amount of times you will ever good use of the taunt kill in a real match are also incredibly niche as well, so it balances out.
5:00 Pyro's Balloonibouncer Taunt and a few others can put you inside walls, sometimes enemies will bump into you and still miss you. Also, technically, an unusual version of said taunt might give you away (as it is the case with mine, but it still works)
One thing about the nostromo that makes it slightly nkre good, and qouting the wiki here: Flame damage is proportional to particle lifetime instead of distance from target. Unlike most weapons, Critical hits are also affected by the scaling. Additionally, there is a very slight damage variance (±0.08 / particle) due to differences in particle angles.
This reminds me about how on release the box 📦 spy taunt used to place the spy's hit box below where sentries would aim if the spy was not moving. Before they fixed that it was even more pay to win since they could distract sentries permanently
6:30 the one cosmetic that immediately came to my mind was Notch's hat, which I heard gives a damage vulnerability. Though I guess it doesn't count since you can't exactly buy it
The Top Notch's damage vulnerability was a joke and nothing more Robin Walker was asked during an event why he gave Notch the hat and he said "He doesn't know but it makes him take 20% extra damage" in a manner that was generally obvious to be a joke And even if you'd like to counteract that there's no way to prove it's a joke, there's no way to prove it _isn't_ a joke, because I highly doubt that, if asked, Notch is just going to brush the dust off of TF2 and set up a way to run some damage calculations just to confirm something pointless for a bunch of nerds
On servers with random crits disabled (i.e. uncletopia), the Southern Hospitality is a almost a direct upgrade to the stock wrench in defense scenarios, as long as you are away from pyros. Also, the coffin taunt for spy is borderline overpowered on Halloween maps. Finally, in Casual mode, the Panic Attack could almost be considered a direct upgrade over the shotgun due to it having fixed bullet spread.
I consider the original a direct side-grade because you have to expose yourself ever so slightly more to shoot around corners and it's easier to rocket jump off walls with stock
but theoretically you expose yourself LESS when you peek around corners on the opposite viewmodel (left side when youre right handed and vice versa) so it balances out. Same thing with the wall jumps, it only makes one side easier and the other side slightly harder
2:25 The stock Rocket Launcher actually fires from the right side (left when viewmodels are switched) which allows you to shoot around certain corners while being unseen depending on which side the launcher's on.
The Nostromo Napalmer's set bonus with the MK 50 does have a downside, though, in that Scouts with the full Xenomorph set 1-shot you with their melees.
@@therealevilmudbug You can easily kill a Scout before he gets in range with your 3x damage, but if the Scout gets the drop on you once, you're dead. It changes the dynamic and gives Pyro a distinct advantage in 1-on-1 confrontations, but it also isn't strictly worse for Scout overall.
Funny story, back when I started playing TF2 in 2015-2018, I was trying to turn off pyrovision but it wouldn't turn off. So I ended up deleting my Pyrovision Goggles since I thought they were causing the problem. *I had the Rainblower equipped.....*
strange weapons in general are direct downgrades because they broadcast item usage across the server, giving both your weapon usage and most likley your class away to the enemy team. this also reveals spy cloaks and dead ringers if using strange variants and cloaking on a milestone that shows it chat.
No human being can rocket jump with the ‘Original’, like I swear it’s impossible, it’s like shooting rockets out of my penis, how the hell do I walk jump?
as for the christmas cosmetics that give off sounds hearing a random enemy walk up behind me has saved me so many times because of that stupid hat (that i also love)
I'm sorry but where does overwatch 2 have a distinct advantage for paying players? I mean you can play some heros without grinding as much but... that's the same with tf2 loadouts
The nostromo napalmer being shorter doesn’t seem important but I do find I 1/7 times when hiding in a small area end up not being seen. The reduced length is shockingly helpful
Talking about niche upsides, the spellbook while not entirely pay to win as you can collect the pages through contracts, the spellbook can be equipped before entering a map with spells so you don't need to take an extra second to respawn with the spell magazine
correction about overwatch 2: The overpowered characters (Roadhog, sojourn) are both Free, and always have been for overwatch 2 Kiriko isn’t hard to get within a reasonable time frame, especially if you haven’t played overwatch, since the free way to get her requires you to play other (simpler) supports, which will in turn make you better at playing kiriko but you know, you’re a TF2ober, why would you care about overwatch 3 anyways? Great video eitherway 0:06
I can agree sojourn is currently too strong but Hog? That's a bit of a stretch for me. But I respect your opinion. Plus, yea I don't know why people make such a colossal fuss since I have gotten Kiriko and Ramantra in less than 2 weeks because of casually playing.
@@shemarwhit8977 I know as someone on both sides that shitting on overwatch is kind of one of the Ten Commandments of post 2010s TF2, but you know Also road is busted in unranked unless you can somehow coordinate your team to hard counter him, with Sombra or something to disable that garbage ass heal Otherwise, he just tanks way too much damage and his chain all but guarantees the instant death of any DPS or support caught in it, again, without insane team coordination
@@kingkrispy5289 I know of general overwatch hate but eh, crappy company will do that for a game. Guess I never really considered that since I rarely find taking on Roadhog to be thank much of an issue unless there's multiple tanks on the field. But personal preferences so I can respect that.
@@shemarwhit8977 it really depends on wither or not the Roadhog knows about the 50% damage reduction on take a breather, if they do.. Any and all burst damage thrown at Roadhog is cancelled, and will be returned in the form of a hook and headshot lol He’s not the most OPPRESSIVE, but he will totally choke your team out, especially if your DPS players HAVE to play close to do damage
@@kingkrispy5289 I guess I just don't majorly encounter that since I play an unhealthy amount of Ana and both of her abilities just ruin hogs that I tend to go against. But I wouldn't mind if Hogs heal went back to around 14-12 seconds it is usually since he can feel like a massive pain when he has another tank to do that actual tanking
I think hes talking about buying the battle pass giving you the newest hero instantly, if that hero was overpowered, the players who pay can abuse it before nonpaying players
@@asonofliberty3662you could probably educate instead of ridicule, but I guess the version where you bang rocks together to make yourself feel superior to us works too.
Ubersaw is borderline a direct upgrade because most medics within melee range are likely to hit you within the first hit given the faster move speed as well.
Counterpoint for the AP- SAP, the eye opens up when looking towards engineer buildings, even through walls (unless they’ve changed this I haven’t played since high school)
Almost every single unusual effect could be classified as a direct downgrade since it makes you much more visible
especially on snipers
objection - higher priority for medics
^ this guy gets heals
@@tobyret9302 Unusuals also makes it easier to see spies disguised as you.
you get ubered more often tho
When I was younger I always thought the "solemn vow"had a downside that you couldn't melee with it because of the description and I didn't question it for like a year
I can imagine your shock when you first hit someone with it
Imagine if the item was based on that, would be very interesting as it would heavily change gameplay.
@@skeletonking2501 how?
@@epickid4268 Medic's best self-defense is his melee, because his main weapons have weak damage or sustain. Taking his best self-defense away leaves him to his potentially, (probably), incompetent team. This makes Medic even less combatively capable, and more team reliant, maybe he'd be better for coordinating, like for strategizing picks with their teammates, because he can scope out enemies' health for his team, but is capable of getting blindsighted and overwhelmed, kinda like spy (who can also see enemy players' health)
@@commodorex all I'm hearing is buff the bonesaw
Something extra about Pyroland is that the blood particules used for fall damage are changed to the way more noticible balloons, meaning you could detect Invisible Spies more easily by using a Pyroland weapon.
In addition, certain map props are just not there in Pyroland, so while you may not be able to see the mini sentry tucked in a bush until the killcam shows it to you pedrominecraft2008 the gibus pyroland stock demoman can.
@@ChipDrewPog He's too dangerous to be left alive!
Also, a lot of Pyroland Spy deathcries last longer than usual, so when they pop a DR, their extended voice lines follow them much more easily. Especially if you trigger their DR with a melee kill, because then it's that laugh for about 3 seconds.
It still isn't p2w because you can get the pyrovision goggles for free
Or a cosm.
3:25 Note: The scout also gets a melee bonus against you
If they somehow manage to get within melee range of a pyro that deals multiplied damage against them.
Appropriately, that would only happen if the scout snuck up on the pyro or the pyro flubbed so badly not even the enhanced flamethrower damage couldn't save them. Very accurate to the source material.@@ZorotheGallade
Wouldn't it also boost the Wrap Assassin bauble damage?
@@rotz394they have to be using the batsaber
@@aidanwhite2894 Not true, the batsaber isn't part of the item set
...but on a thematic level, I agree
Something else you forgot to mention about Pyroland items is that the altered Pyroland maps also tend to have less visual clutter.
Less bushes, brighter colors that more clearly contrast player characters, it both lets you see more and understand more if you can get used to Pyroland. It's banned in competitive for these reasons.
Faster voicelines too
As someone who plays 2fort all the time, i agree. The red balcony is significantly harder to see into than the blu balcony, but the provision goggles completely removes that issue.
Except when you are playing sniper and someone starts attacking you, every time you get hit balloons pop out of you and they obstruct your view, I lost more than one headshot due to the pyrovision goggles, I still refuse to remove them due to the drip
@@Shroom_gang_leader that happens to me alot, but typically if i get shot i can just retreat behind cover anyway, so its not that big a deal.
@@Shroom_gang_leaderOh no, Sniper has to deal with a minor inconvenience, oh the humanity
Also worth noting that the sharp dresser has a unique backstab kill icon, meaning that opponents immediately know you have it instead of say, the kunai
same thing with the ambassadors headshot
intimidation bonus
intimidation bonus
intimidation bonus
intimidation bonus
The one thing about the Christmas bell cosmetics that could be a downside is that if the spy themself is wherein them, the sound still plays while cloaked, even while disguised and cloaked, and do can give away your position much like the apsap, and I’ve definitely taken advantage of done spy’s more festive nature like this.
Some tryhards who put their sounds to a 1000 with 50D headset to catch spies well enjoy it
there is a video called "proof that tf2 is pay to lose" that shows exactly that
You sure about that? Recently, I cloaked as Spy using the Reindoonibeanie (which has Christmas bells) and the bell sound was muted during the time. It was even muted during disguise (unless the player I'm disguising as is wearing the same hat as I do). Although, it doesn't change the fact that it would give away the position you're at if you're not cloak or disguise. So it's still a downgrade compared to no cosmetics
@@TheEngieTF2 did you check with the enemy team if it was muted? I know it mutes it for you, but what about other people
@@grummdoesstuff2983 The other team didn't seemed to look at the direction where I was walking to, so apparently it mutes completely for both sides
Also there's the Hotrod. If a spy pulls out their sapper (which is a "building") while disguised as a Hotrod engie the visor will flip down, which on a real engie would only be while hauling a building or having a blueprint out, something the spy can not pretend to do.
sapper isnt building
@@sauliusvitkauskas8741 In the code it is, hence the hotrod disguise interaction. Also why the homewrecker 1-shots sappers, because of the damage bonus vs buildings.
You forget that the Box Trot has the subtle upgrade that you can use it to walk past sentries without being fired because it moved your hitbox under the firing line of the turrents - but not the rockets -
metal gear solid references go hard in tf2
woah
"A surveillance sentry!?"
Where is this commonly possible? Very situational but I imagine you feel fucking GODLIKE when you find a sentry to do it on though lmao
@@dillonmoore9810 using this to kill an engineer as a friendly spy
7:20 objectively wrong as pan is the funniest melee in the game and is capable of damaging players irl if they use headphones
facts
The fish is funnier. fite me.
Don't forget it inflicts psychological damage if used enough times on someone.
@@verdatum loud = funny. Pan louder than fish therefore it's funnier
Checkmate
I feel like a special mention should've been given to the fact that some item sets had an actual statistical advantage in the form of stat bonuses for a good while, until that got replaced with leaving calling cards. Of note, the Croc-o-Style Kit gave you *headshot immunity*.
Think he didnt mention that because he already made a video on it
Speaking of "calling cards", I would say that's a direct downgrade too; If melee reskin is an upgrade because the enemy don't know what class you are, this is the opposite; the enemy team not only knows what class you are but also know what weapons you're using, most of the time more than 2 weapons
He didn't talk about it because this point has been covered and talked about ad nauseum.
Tank buster set used to give you 20% sentry damage resistance. That shit is crazy and it get's more ridiculous when you remember that it also gave you another 50% sentry damage resistance because of the backup
Headshot immunity was a misnomer. You still just barely survived, it didn’t just not crit
5:56 This WAS my first time hearing about the ability to cancel the Horseman’s stun
Technically all pyroland items except for the rainblower are pay to win because they make using the dragon's fury not a slideshow.
What about the dragon's fury is a slideshow? It works just fine for me
@@SkeletonGuts It apparently causes people's games to lag a lot
@@LoraLoibu yeah I drop frames hard with it. like it legit freezes the screen for maybe 1/5 of a second, which doesn't sound like much until you realize that it attacks every 4/5 seconds, making my screen frozen for 1/4 of the time.
You forgot the classic pyro vision gogles
I haven't had the frsme drop issuse (that sounds awful), but i ddi install a mod thst gets riid of the flash of white every time you fire thr Dragon's Fury
The Hotrod for the engineer has an animation where the visor flips down when he is holding a building/about to build. Since the spy's sapper counts as a building, a spy holding the sapper is in the "about to build" state. This essentially means that if you ever see an engineer with the hotrod visor down and he's not holding a toolbox, it's automatically a spy.
You mentioned the Solemn Vow, but The Amputator used to also be a straight upgrade, being identical to the Bonesaw except having the radius healing while taunting that it has today, and while technically not a stat on the Amputator itself, equipping it and the Crusader's Crossbow gave the item set bonus of +1 self healing per second.
And item sets in general. Remember HEADSHOT-IMMUNE sniper? Yeah.. those were the days.
@@6447912 And the less said about Dead Ringer Saharan Spy, the better.
@@6447912 why was it op? You had to use the sleeper.
@@theadministrator.6632 who said the sydney sleeper was bad?
@@theadministrator.6632The fact that you can’t die to headshots speaks volumes
That and the danger shield’a inherent bullet resistance means that it takes two shots minimum to kill you. (Or a single machine full charge bodyshot)
0:46 I wasn't prepared for that jumpscare
You should also mention that the green flames also make it hard to tell if you're using a phlog or not!
The Ace Special. The downside is of course you don't get that nice translucent flames of the Phlog, but that's a small price to pay for enemies to not instintively run away from you or attack you for fear of getting their shit airblasted.
L
@@timothypenn7347 average phlog hater vs average "i respect your weapon choice" enjoyer
@@oof8493 unless you use the cloak and dagger
@@kellymountain yeah
1:30 The Amputator on release also used to be a straight upgrade, it had the healing taunt and no downside. Also I would definitely add the orange "Smalltown Bringdown" weapon skin for the Rocket Launcher, I have died before because I thought my enemy was foolishly wielding a useless rocket jumper
The main disadvantage of Christmas hats is not just the fact the footsteps are a tad more noticeable but also the fact that it becomes worse the less people are wearing them. If you're the only person on your team wearing a Christmas hat and jingling all the way, people will know that you specifically are coming when they hear footsteps - e.g. if you're a demo with a sticky trap set up and people hear you walking around, they'll know there's a demo nearby rather than another player (or even a teammate) whose making footstep noises.
and theres also the fact that you can tell what class is wearing it from the walk cycles, scout is by far the easiest to listen for
makes it near impossible to flank an alert player with headphones
It's hilarious to troll ppl with the Baby Face's Blaster at full boost with the Bootie Time elf shoes on :D. And The Jingler hat :D. AND the Snissmass noisemaker.
The Yeti Smash taunt allows you to hide your team color for a few seconds. I heard that one player used it to his advantage in competitive match.
The Frying pan bonk can actually work in your team's favour too since the loud sounds can make it harder for enemies to hear other sounds like decloaks or explosions.
Double edged -sword- *P A N*
That’s why I mostly play as pan knight with the Splendid Screen, lmao. For the LOUD NOISES
"RAAAAAGH- BONK!"
@@marisakirisame1st BAP!
@@marisakirisame1st yes, just like that. Quickly followed by WOOOOOOOO!!! from the “oblooterated” taunt.
My favorite use of any hat with Jingle all the way is that when I'm 1v1ing and I'm winning, it becomes a very ominous noise when the player you're fighting can't see you.
3:22 not technically a strict upgrade as those scouts do additional melee damage against you.
Yea but it might be imposible for the Scout to Melee rush a Pyro with crits by default.
@@ghastlygibus2121 keyword is "might": if the scout gets to you from behind, it would be easy to hit you 2 times to kill you before you realize whats going on and burn em to a crisp.
As Great Blue said at the start of the video with the Market Gardner/Shovel comparison, it only is a strict upgrade if it has no downsides compared to stock and only upsides.
Taking 3 times more damage from the scout's melee IS a downside, making the item set technically not a direct upgrade.
@JaMM I mean the scout could have already just shot him to death, at that point, so yea it's technically not objectively upside, but the fact that a scout might try and hit you with Melee over shooting you with his better weapon is more then enough to make up for that
Whatever the practically, it still isn't technically a strict upgrade, which is what the video is concerning. Still a brilliant video however, don't get me wrong.
Yeah
Melee a Pyro as scout, that is perfectly easy...
The existence of "Jingle all the way" has definitely granted me a few extra kills on Scouts, because they more than any other class tend to rotate to and from cover during a fight, and the loud christmas noises they make give away where they'll appear from next.
Especially useful for a Soldier who can pre-fire a rocket right where the Scout's gonna be.
the original definitely isn't a direct upgrade because you can shoot around corners for free damage with the stock, very useful for sentries
also for stock you can switch which side the view model is and from which changes which side you shoot from as well
Yeah but I think that advantage cancels out since you only get better peeking on one side
@@goshdarnedbatman9969 what do you mean
The original is just a preference thing.
@@goshdarnedbatman9969 You can swap sides with a simple key bind mid-match. It's pretty nice to have and can come in clutch in some maps.
I think original vs stock is map and playstyle dependent. Like pocket soldiers benefit more from stock while roamers benefit from original.
Australium weapons are also upgrades, as they conceal whether a kill was a critical hit or not from the killfeed. Usually crits have a red background, but the australium weapons instead have the golden background, crit or not. This can be sort of important for stuff like a Kritzkrieg against a non-communicating team. Multi-class reskins also have the upside/downside of other classes being able to pick them up to switch weapons, as opposed to only your own class.
so thats why that background is there sometimes i get killed and see that and i get confused because it wasn’t a crit kill
@@user-bkey I once thought a heavy was cheating because he was constantly mini criting but turns out he is just using an australium minigun lol
Imagine if all looping taunts were made slightly louder and had some visual added that stretched out for a ways.
Or if their cancels were made to take longer some.
Apex Legends just straight up made a feature called anti-peek where you won’t be able to see any players that aren’t in LOS of your model, could be useable.
@@nathan_thorn6906 sounds like a great way to add a bunch of buggy BS no thanks
@@mrrooter601 While I agree with you it's not much different than culling players in a game like Rust with large maps and upwards of 200+ character models with unique clothes/skins/models running around at the same time. It's wholly unnecessary for TF2 as there's a lot less to cull (unless you're counting unusuals/cosmetics) to improve framerates let alone fix a niche cornerpeeking exploit. It'd be a bit goofy to see a scout suddenly pop into existence at the exact corner while peeking but if they managed to implement it into the spaghetti w/o breaking 300 other things and make it smooth then it'd be a nice compatibility feature at the very least.
Heavy also has the Sammy Cap cosmetic, which drops a sandvich on the floor when you die! It can work in favor of both teams but it has to be the only cosmetic that *directly* impacts gameplay on a regular basis
Honestly kinda surprised he mentioned the old Solemn Vow but not the old item sets, as those were quite literally Pay-to-Win and were made specifically to be pay-to-win and especially for the Sniper one they were pretty powerful at that, if you could handle using the piss rifle with no headshots you could just have what is basically a guarantee to win Sniper duels.
Because he has addressed it in perhaps twenty videos at this point. Everyone has. It's unknown information for a niche of 287 people worldwide.
I would imagine because it still exists. Even though the vow isn’t a direct upgrade anymore the 10% firing speed is quite negligible
I’d say certain Halloween cosmetics like the Horseless Headless Horseman’s Head and the Corpse Carrier could be considered direct upgrades since they make it harder for snipers to discern where your head hitbox is.
HHH’s Head is really big and completely hides your actual head hitbox and the corpse carrier literally gives you a second head that can be confusing to snipers that are scoped in while you’re sprinting and jumping around
All pyrovision items are apparently slightly pay to win. They're banned in comp formats (developer intended ruleset or not), because they affect some materials on some maps, and I think a few props making them invisible, and you can spot enemies. You do however have the tradeoff (or upside if you like it) of being in pyroland, so have fun with an apparently broken upside while you push the payload cart along the cotton candy rollercoaster
It isn't a necessarily broken upside per se, I just think they didnt want cosmetics to have meta applications.
@@mouthwide0pen accidentally forcing all Pyro mains to run pyroland series cosmetics for competitive would be extremely funny as a concept but I'm glad they just banned it instead
@@darkness74185 itd be everyone: pyrovision goggles
That pumpkin head and the monoculous eye hats are arguably also an upgrade because it makes it harder for snipers on the opposing team to land a headshot since the hit box is smaller than the hat
The detecting of Dead Ringer spies with the Holy Mackerel could be a positive, but I've found that it's more a hindrance due to the fact that it not only alerts enemies that you're in a fight, it also alerts the enemies of who's being hit, so the Medic could help them, another teammate can go to their help, and other negative attributes.
Also alerts what weapon you're using so they know there's no bat projectile coming nor any extra atomizer jumps even if u cant clearly see what weapon the scout is holding or even where he is exactly.
3:43 Ah, not completely true. There IS a downside to Pyroland.... For weak PCs.
It made my old computer lag quite a bit....
8000 hours in this game and this was, indeed, my first time hearing about the masks preventing HHH stun. ...wow.
Although this might be opinion-based, I feel like the Hatless Hats, more directly the Ritzy Rick's, give you a slight advantage. A sniper's brimmed hat feels like it pokes out before any of his limbs when scoped, getting rid of that could possibly cut down an enemy snipers' reaction time to you when you peek. It's snake oil I've swallowed a long time ago, but it still feels real.
Pyrovision items are also banned in comp purely because certain maps in pyrovision have certain bushes and other hiding spots removed/moved, plus they make all voicelines louder, meaning you can hear the enemy team better. In summary competitive players are really neurotic and weird.
Regarding taunts, you can Conga out of the Sniper's skewer taunt stun.
The Demoman’s Shin Shredder’s completely hides the bootlegger if both are equipped. Honestly, it’s probably not gonna net you more than one kill, but it is impossible to tell if you’re a hybrid or complete demoknight while wearing it.
The Strange Dead ringer is a very rare case of being a true “Pay to lose” item, as a unique dead ringer won’t have the chance to announce to the entire server that you faked your death for the 100th time.
Dont you mean pay to win?
@ No
2:36
I'd venture to guess that it mostly comes down to them wanting to use their Aussies.
Great video, though I do dispute the notion that most of these are 'pay to win' since... well, the phrase was coined specifically to refer to mechanics that you Must pay money for to gain an unfair advantage - and pretty much all these weapons can be acquired very easily for free or through low-level trading.
You forgot the Snack Attack. It is basically just a silent sapper, therefore making pybros notice it less often. Pretty small advantage, but considering it costs 2.5 keys and is a direct upgrade from stock, it should be in the video.
It has slight disadvantages that it has passive noise when active, so you have to pick it up in right time.
Another thing about the green flames is that it could be put on the flog, tuning flog flames into normal ones, sometimes solders won’t shoot at you because they think you can reflect :))
pay to lose: 99% of all unusual effects on hats since it essentially gives you away
people are literally paying to have a target painted on their head
"The frying pan's noise can give away your position"
If I equip the frying pan, the last thing on my mind is "I must remain silent to sneak up on them"
The frying pan says "I am approaching your location with devious intentions and there is nothing you can do to stop me"
The swagger of a fromsoft enemy
The Headtaker is a direct upgrade. It does the same stuff that the Eyelander does and you make up a lot of inventory space just trying to craft it.
The Meet the Medic taunt is pay to win because you can use it in the water to broadcast a loud splash noise to the entire server. Use it in conjunction with a spy and you can drown out his decloak sound.
(Joking ofc who actually does this)
I'm surprised with the taunts you didn't mention the current meta with the pyro to jump into walls using the Balloonibouncer.
Also, I can live with the Ap-Sap being significantly less stealthy. It's kinda the joke and I also play Spy so infrequently (and badly) that it doesn't really affect me that much anyway! 😅
7:10
“The Ap-Sap and the Snack Attack make significantly more passive noises than the stock Sapper”
*“HELLO!”*
unusual taunts could possibly be a downgrade depending on how visible they make you around corners.
pay to lose
However, they can be used to indicate that somebody is watching a corner in third person, potentially warding off cautious players.
Or even causing an enemy with splash damage to waste extra time trying to kill you could buy your team valuable seconds.
I would argue that the Rainblower is not a direct upgrade as Pyroland has a minor downside, namely every so slightly reducing your effective field of view. While in Pyroland, the edges of your screen are covered with a white edge, and there is also has a distortion effect near the edges. While these effects are incredibly minor, it could block the view of a threat that was only barely visible in your peripheral view. Now the times these matter is going to be incredibly niche, as you are unlikely to notice such threats even if they are technically visible, but the amount of times you will ever good use of the taunt kill in a real match are also incredibly niche as well, so it balances out.
There is actually a setting to turn that off.
5:00
Pyro's Balloonibouncer Taunt and a few others can put you inside walls, sometimes enemies will bump into you and still miss you.
Also, technically, an unusual version of said taunt might give you away (as it is the case with mine, but it still works)
One thing about the nostromo that makes it slightly nkre good, and qouting the wiki here:
Flame damage is proportional to particle lifetime instead of distance from target. Unlike most weapons, Critical hits are also affected by the scaling. Additionally, there is a very slight damage variance (±0.08 / particle) due to differences in particle angles.
This reminds me about how on release the box 📦 spy taunt used to place the spy's hit box below where sentries would aim if the spy was not moving. Before they fixed that it was even more pay to win since they could distract sentries permanently
It literally took me 2 years of tf2 to watch this video and find out that the horseman head and the saxton mask grant no stuns.
6:30 the one cosmetic that immediately came to my mind was Notch's hat, which I heard gives a damage vulnerability. Though I guess it doesn't count since you can't exactly buy it
The Top Notch's damage vulnerability was a joke and nothing more
Robin Walker was asked during an event why he gave Notch the hat and he said "He doesn't know but it makes him take 20% extra damage" in a manner that was generally obvious to be a joke
And even if you'd like to counteract that there's no way to prove it's a joke, there's no way to prove it _isn't_ a joke, because I highly doubt that, if asked, Notch is just going to brush the dust off of TF2 and set up a way to run some damage calculations just to confirm something pointless for a bunch of nerds
@@WhimsicottFanatic it must be proven
-We must annoy notch-
On servers with random crits disabled (i.e. uncletopia), the Southern Hospitality is a almost a direct upgrade to the stock wrench in defense scenarios, as long as you are away from pyros. Also, the coffin taunt for spy is borderline overpowered on Halloween maps. Finally, in Casual mode, the Panic Attack could almost be considered a direct upgrade over the shotgun due to it having fixed bullet spread.
I consider the original a direct side-grade because you have to expose yourself ever so slightly more to shoot around corners and it's easier to rocket jump off walls with stock
but theoretically you expose yourself LESS when you peek around corners on the opposite viewmodel (left side when youre right handed and vice versa) so it balances out. Same thing with the wall jumps, it only makes one side easier and the other side slightly harder
@@mayomust you can swap on the fly, bind it to something
@@MajiriTadakichi viewmodel swap only works while not ingame
@@kellymountain oops, I've been swayed by the magic of editing
I love how most of the “pay to win” items can be just gotten as random drops.
0:17 *Crys in Medic*
2:25 The stock Rocket Launcher actually fires from the right side (left when viewmodels are switched) which allows you to shoot around certain corners while being unseen depending on which side the launcher's on.
fax
Imagine if 3rd Degree was applied to Default Axe.
THE CROC-O-STYLE KIT
Item set bonus couldn’t be killed by head shot
If you take some of these items into a x100 server, then yes, they would definitely fall into the pay-to-win category.
By that logic anything is p2w
the spycikle like yeah u lose your knife but better than losing ones life.
i think we can all agree that watching a great blue video before going to sleep is the best feeling ever
2:41 it could also be because you can't corner peak with the original due to it coimg out of the center
The Nostromo Napalmer's set bonus with the MK 50 does have a downside, though, in that Scouts with the full Xenomorph set 1-shot you with their melees.
But they realistically can't, because the Pyro can still airblast
@@therealevilmudbug You can easily kill a Scout before he gets in range with your 3x damage, but if the Scout gets the drop on you once, you're dead. It changes the dynamic and gives Pyro a distinct advantage in 1-on-1 confrontations, but it also isn't strictly worse for Scout overall.
Tf2 has gotta be one of the few games where you can discuss whether something is pay to win or not
4:26 why have long knife, when can have meat? Why have sharp stick when can have ham?
Funny story, back when I started playing TF2 in 2015-2018, I was trying to turn off pyrovision but it wouldn't turn off. So I ended up deleting my Pyrovision Goggles since I thought they were causing the problem.
*I had the Rainblower equipped.....*
5:44 I played since 2013 and I had no idea.
strange weapons in general are direct downgrades because they broadcast item usage across the server, giving both your weapon usage and most likley your class away to the enemy team. this also reveals spy cloaks and dead ringers if using strange variants and cloaking on a milestone that shows it chat.
Pyrovision: faster voicelines
But the goggles are free
Technically speaking, any stock melee reskin is actually a direct upgrade to stock melees because they're the same thing but with a higher crit rate.
what
No reskin has a higher crit rate.
7:11 But common the ap sap is just cool
Ye mainly because it's Wheatley
I am thinking of getting the snack attack because I just like expiration date
hallo
Ok, that AP-SAP "HELLO!", got me good xD
5:36 What are these 2 cosmetics?
No human being can rocket jump with the ‘Original’, like I swear it’s impossible, it’s like shooting rockets out of my penis, how the hell do I walk jump?
6:16 the man behind the slaughter
as for the christmas cosmetics that give off sounds
hearing a random enemy walk up behind me has saved me so many times because of that stupid hat (that i also love)
I'm sorry but where does overwatch 2 have a distinct advantage for paying players? I mean you can play some heros without grinding as much but... that's the same with tf2 loadouts
exactly, i feel this is just blatant “overwatch bad” coming from a tf2 super fan boy
Kiriko?
0:46 "a wild t-pose pyro has appeared to counter your argument"
The nostromo napalmer being shorter doesn’t seem important but I do find I 1/7 times when hiding in a small area end up not being seen. The reduced length is shockingly helpful
This is such a good video. I could never think of some of these because of them being so extremely niche lol
Talking about niche upsides, the spellbook while not entirely pay to win as you can collect the pages through contracts, the spellbook can be equipped before entering a map with spells so you don't need to take an extra second to respawn with the spell magazine
For direct downgrades; there are Soldier cosmetics that make you unable to equip boot items because the cosmetic includes boots.
0:46 Why? He was just a-posing
*T-posing
@@joyeetasinharayA-posing*
@@Oppa_Faloppa t-posing
@@joyeetasinharay A-posing
@@Oppa_Faloppa t-posing you uncultured swine
The Rock, Paper, Scissors taunt makes the loser explode when someone of the opposing team joins in, technically making it an all-class tauntkill.
9:07 i feel offended.
u forgot rps taunt
I mean there IS the Southern Hospitality. As long as you're NOT getting ambused by a Pyro, it's essentially a direct upgrade to the stock wrench.
8:54 Kunai
Lol
I miss the certified Pay-To-Lose item that makes you jingle having the effect of making you jingle EVEN while cloaked as spy.
correction about overwatch 2:
The overpowered characters (Roadhog, sojourn) are both Free, and always have been for overwatch 2
Kiriko isn’t hard to get within a reasonable time frame, especially if you haven’t played overwatch, since the free way to get her requires you to play other (simpler) supports, which will in turn make you better at playing kiriko
but you know, you’re a TF2ober, why would you care about overwatch 3 anyways?
Great video eitherway 0:06
I can agree sojourn is currently too strong but Hog? That's a bit of a stretch for me. But I respect your opinion.
Plus, yea I don't know why people make such a colossal fuss since I have gotten Kiriko and Ramantra in less than 2 weeks because of casually playing.
@@shemarwhit8977 I know as someone on both sides that shitting on overwatch is kind of one of the Ten Commandments of post 2010s TF2, but you know
Also road is busted in unranked unless you can somehow coordinate your team to hard counter him, with Sombra or something to disable that garbage ass heal
Otherwise, he just tanks way too much damage and his chain all but guarantees the instant death of any DPS or support caught in it, again, without insane team coordination
@@kingkrispy5289 I know of general overwatch hate but eh, crappy company will do that for a game.
Guess I never really considered that since I rarely find taking on Roadhog to be thank much of an issue unless there's multiple tanks on the field. But personal preferences so I can respect that.
@@shemarwhit8977 it really depends on wither or not the Roadhog knows about the 50% damage reduction on take a breather, if they do..
Any and all burst damage thrown at Roadhog is cancelled, and will be returned in the form of a hook and headshot lol
He’s not the most OPPRESSIVE, but he will totally choke your team out, especially if your DPS players HAVE to play close to do damage
@@kingkrispy5289 I guess I just don't majorly encounter that since I play an unhealthy amount of Ana and both of her abilities just ruin hogs that I tend to go against. But I wouldn't mind if Hogs heal went back to around 14-12 seconds it is usually since he can feel like a massive pain when he has another tank to do that actual tanking
The pan is a direct upgrade because it also deals psychic damage to your enemies
0:09, how do cosmetics give you an advantage at all?
I think hes talking about buying the battle pass giving you the newest hero instantly, if that hero was overpowered, the players who pay can abuse it before nonpaying players
I’m guessing you don’t actually play overwatch. If you don’t know about hero’s in the battlepass might want to stop licking hammers.
Did you look at the part of the video he mentioned? Sounds like you suck on too many hammers and just like to project @@asonofliberty3662
@@asonofliberty3662you could probably educate instead of ridicule, but I guess the version where you bang rocks together to make yourself feel superior to us works too.
Ubersaw is borderline a direct upgrade because most medics within melee range are likely to hit you within the first hit given the faster move speed as well.
Counterpoint for the AP- SAP, the eye opens up when looking towards engineer buildings, even through walls (unless they’ve changed this I haven’t played since high school)
The diamondback is arguably a straight upgrade, it rewards you with crits for doing the things youre meant to do
nope damage penalty
@@commitfelonyfelineThe damage penalty is only a small price to pay for stored crits with no bullet spread or damage falloff
@@dannym1882 objection
I am fucking terrible at stabs AND sapping 😎