Winspace Agile Review: Sleek, Comfy, Lively but...
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- Winspace Agile is the first bike I've built. I've already put over 3000 kilometers on it, and in the video, I share the pros and cons I've found (I share the good, the bad, and the ugly). I also explain why I opted for the Shimano groupset, 165mm cranks (instead of 175mm), and what bottom bracket manufacturer you should avoid. By the way, this review took me a lot of time (I estimate around 30 hours of work) and money. It will make me happy if you like, share, and subscribe to my channel.
📝 Written review: www.cyclistshub.com/winspace-...
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0:00 Intro
0:40 Shimano or SRAM and other build choices
1:27 Size and geometry
2:22 A look inside
2:35 My experience with building this bike
2:55 My ride experience with Agile and weight
4:59 Shorter cranks - the best decision ever?
5:26 Things I like about Agile
6:32 Things I dislike about Agile
8:10 Is the price justifiable?
9:51 Price of this build
10:52 Summary
11:58 Outro
Watch @klein-concept Agile build video: • How To Build a Carbon ...
Watch @CamNicholls crank length video: • I've Gone Back to 165m...
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#winspace #winspaceagile #carbonbike #chinesecarbon #roadcycling 
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Awesome review Petr! :) I saw your bike in real life and it looked and felt very smooth and fast...on steep punchy climb, where we had battle together, out of saddle it looked very stiff and responsive, that I had hard time to hold your wheel...bottom bracket in this case is a shame :( nobody want to harm cats! anyway bike looks nice, even in this color option... P.S. you need to work on those calfs mate! :D
Hi Milan, thanks for your comment. It made my day. 🤣 Yeah, calves are in progress. 😅
these Chinese brands are definitely pricing themselves out of the market. you can argue that this build is comparable to the highest end builds of major western brands for lower pricing but still. there are a few extras these major western brands offer, lifetime warranty or frames and wheels on some, easier and probably replacement if you get a damage or make a claim and many more reasons. nice bikes, but these prices make it a hard pill to swallow. Great video, great points for comparison especially with the price breakdown, that was nice touch. cheers.
Yeah, only time will tell if the brands survive or not. They have the sales numbers, so they can make more educated decisions.
Thanks for the mention man. Wicked video as always 🤜🤛
Thanks a lot!
Thank you, has been looking for review of Agile
You are welcome. 👍 I believe this is one of the first ones. 😊
Great review, keep it up
Good job on this review, thank you 👍☺️
Thank you. I think this is my best one yet. :-)
II will never buy from Winspace again. Two years ago I bought the T1500 disc frameset. Two weeks ago when servicing the bike, I notice the topbearing was eating into the steerer ( ring of death). I contacted Winspace to buy a new fork. They answered they do not carry the T1500 spares any longer nor are they further produced. Their advice was to buy a new frameset. My subsequent emails remain ignored. I hope to find a manufacturer of forks to help me out. In Europe there is a law that manufacturers must carry parts stock for quite a long time. Not only does Winspace have a substandard customer service in China, but also do not make any attempt to propose a solution. Winspace? No forget it!
Hi Kristiaan,
I am sorry to hear that. Can you forward the pictures to petr@cyclistshub.com? I am curious to see the damage.
any fork with similar diameter will work i guess but inner cabling would be compromised
@davidgoon1978 The fork notches into the frame on the t1500 it looks like. Any fork will work, but the bike was clearly designed around that specific fork for aerodynamics.
@@cyclistshub Will do .
That's really sad.
Another reason NOT to buy Chinese. It's money down the drain.
Now we talking🥳✌️
like you i had a r12 for a few years now and agile caught my eyes mine is coming august !! :D
What a coincidence. :-D I hope you will share your thoughts here once you compare these two. :-)
I also have ridden an r12 but not for that long, only 6 months. I'm going to swap the frame out for a Seka Spear. For me the R12 was just too stiff... like riding a plank of wood. Hoping I'll feel the difference with the spear!
Spear? Wow, that should be an UPGRADE! 😊
Very nice! At the end of this year, I'm planning on building a race bike with the ability to fit 34mm tires. I'm debating between the Winspace Agile and Tavelo Arrow that will be released soon. Really like the T47 bottom bracket, too.
Thank you. :-) Yeah, there is a big ongoing push of the Tavelo Attack/Arrow. It would be a nice to compare it with Agile. 😊
great review, really
Thank you, Serge, 😊
Nice video!
The one thing I keep seeing overlooked in the Chinese frame price discussion is that it normally only comes from the European, USA and Australian POVs but I changed drastically in other markets like Latam, where any bike related product from the established brands tend to be 20% more expensive with more limited options and availability specifically in frame set only and from what I’ve seen other markets experience the same
In this case this price hikes still make this bikes a really good option against others
Thank you!
You got a good point and you are right. I am from Europe, so I have very limited knowledge of the situation in South America. However, I recently created an "SL8 index" (it tells you how long you have to work for an S-Works SL8 considering the price in the given country and average salary), and the SA countries are in the top (they have to work the longest): www.cyclistshub.com/s-works-sl8-index/
@@cyclistshub this index is amazing and shows exactly what I'm talking about.
And I totally get the limited POV, since South America and SEA lack youtubers it's hard to show the situation so I just like to add some info to this ongoing debate about pricing
@@EJD200 thank you, yeah, it took a lot of time to put together. :-D
Nice video! Did you have to adjust your saddle height, fore/aft when switching to shorter cranks?
Thank you, Patrick. Great question, the answer to which will be a bit longer to add the necessary context. I attended a professional bike fit with R12, and we found the ideal saddle height for that frame. It was interesting to see how even a 2mm change, for example, can lead to changes in pedaling feel. However, I attribute this to the fact that we were on the edge of being able to control the pedal stroke and losing control.
When I built the Agile, I set the same saddle height as on the R12. I put the saddle in neutral and then looked for the ideal fore/aft and tilt. While testing the Agile, I also tested multiple saddles for a future review.
In theory, shorter cranks should lead to a higher saddle position to compensate for the crank length. I tried raising the saddle, but it didn't feel quite right. So far, the original set height fits best. I'll see if I decide to make further adjustments, but I'd prefer to stick with a setup (including saddle type) that fits. 😅
@@cyclistshub makes sense thanks! I went with shorter cranks on my Allez Sprint. And I too felt the best when the saddle and height were the same as previous.
@@PatrickLino, so it's basically the same scenario. 😅 In theory, I should raise the saddle by 10mm, but I tried that and would probably injure myself.
The T1550 2nd Gen. Frameset seems a better buy. Its more known, a bit cheaper and now has a T47 bottom bracket and has been updated due to user requets. Interestingly its also a bit lighter than the the Agile. Definitely on my bucket list
Hi Cornel, good point. I like the shapes of the Agile more, but you are right that T1550 could be a more interesting prospect for some. :-)
The main reason why they're now so expensive is precisely because they shower RUclipsrs and influencers with free stuff to get content, kick backs and so on.
My oem frame comes from a factory that makes argon 18 frames. Costs 500 USD. They don't do discounts, samples, kick backs, their marketing budget is 0, and I hope it stays that way :)
Factor said at one point that there was 1k USD of marketing in each and every frame they sell. Think about that.
Marketing costs are undoubtedly included in the price. However, if a brand has the ambition to become a major player, it can't do without them and brand building. There are customers, and you're likely to be among them, who don't care about the brand and are only after the utility of the product. But then there are a whole lot of those who care just as much about that subjectively perceived brand value. After all, cycling is one of the most elitist sports ever. 🙃
By the way, which factory/brand are you talking about? 😊
Otherwise, I've never ridden a Factor, but I looked at the frameset (priced at about $5000) up close and the details were perhaps even worse done than any cheap Chinese frame. 😬
And...marketing costs a ton of money. Couple of examples, movie studios roughly spend 1/3 of total budget on marketing. Auto manufacturers spend roughly $2 to $4 billion on marketing. It's part of doing business in any industry unfortunately. As they say, if Nike made their shoes $5 and cut all of their marketing, they wouldn't sell a single shoe.
Hi Petr, thank you for your review. Regarding your change of crank length, how tall are you and what's your inseam measurement? Best
I have 185cm and my inseam is 86cm. 😊
@@cyclistshub You were feeling pain with the 175mm crank? I have the same measurements than you both in height and inseam. That's why I find the topic even more interesting.
Sometimes my knees hurt in the winter or I was troubled by the IT band. But I mainly wanted to try shorter cranks. :-)
Thanks for the Reviews mate...how about ICAN triAero A9 frame...i wonder if you have tested them from before..... . Im interested on that frame set but couldnot find reviews on you tube
Hope you have a good day
Hi Diether,
Thank you. :-) No, I have not tested it.
@@cyclistshub thank you for Ur urgent comment... Hope you can build it as well in the future..♥️
Was that different from iCan that TraceVelo built?✌️
I had the SLC and it served me well for the past 4 years. I echo the complaint on Winspace having weird geometry. Their frames are just too low and long for their size. Other than that, it rode well. I wont mind getting the Agile if the stack and reach was a bit more "normal" and the prices lower. Also agree that they are starting to price themselves out.
Well, the SLC is due for an update. I think Winspace could introduce it at Eurobike because they mentioned in their invitation that they will reveal a new frame. 😲
@@cyclistshub I'm willing to buy their next slc if it still comes in rim brake at a lighter weight...
@@bugabutu I think the lower weight is almost guaranteed (why would they introduce a heavier new gen?), I am not sure about the rim brake version, though.
@@cyclistshub the disc brake version only gonna be lower weight than the previous disc but certainly not the rim 🫤
This is all cause Joe from China cycling left
@@bugabutu I don't think Joe had the final word in terms of product range, tbh.
Did you move the saddle when you changed the crank length?
No, I kept is as it was and it feels ok. So, it's possible that I had my saddle too high previously (even after having a bike fit).
im curious to rider said 50mm wheels is stable in the crosswind. wonder how they ride.
Hi, it's all relative to other 45mm or 50mm wheels I tested. Of course, shallower wheels are even more stable. :-)
If you are interested in wheel reviews, check out my channel or website where you find plenty of them.
how do the BB stiffness compare between the bikes?
I honestly can't tell. As I said in the video, I am a pretty lightweight rider, so can't spot a difference when spriting. Both bikes feel stiff to me. 🤷♂️
This is nice but the value doesn’t seem to be there… There are complete carbon bikes at 7.9KG bikes with 105 Di2 for $2500. How is this $2300+ frameset worth given the price of other Chinese options?
Hi Levi,
Thanks for your comment.
Do you mean the Sava F20? Well, I don't have personal experience with it, so I can't compare the ride qualities. But as I explained in my other comment, some people care just about the product itself, and for some, the brand and things around (customer support, etc.) are also important aspects. In the end, it's up to you whether you find the frame worth buying or not.
I hope to test more frames/bikes in the future to provide a more objective comparison.
Which brands?
I think this frame is $1980. But the resale value is not there. You’ll be stuck w the frame if you want to resale it.
Hello, since you have switched to 165mm cranks, I wanted to know your inseam measurement? THANKS
Hi Thomas, I am 185cm and have an inseam length of 86cm.
@@cyclistshub thank you very much for your answer ,want to try 165 mm to ;)
Sure thing. :-)
I was really interested in Chinese frames at one point, but now it seems like it's more cost effective to buy a used western brand locally.
What was your budget/limit back then? :)
I thought this bike inspired the fork and headtube of the new Pinarello Dogma? 😁
Haha, yeah, the similarities are there. 😀
Nice review, really appreciate all your time and effort to make these videos. However...
How much am I willing to pay for a Chinese bike?
Nothing. Taiwanese is okay but Chinese with their very dodgy return policies and lottery style delivery I'm not betting any money on them.
Your frameset may be top quality but there's no telling what the next buyer will receive.
I'd much rather have local support for my bike and support my own community.
Thank you, Theo. 😊
I respect your opinion, but I think you are wrong about the "dodgy return policies" and "lottery-style delivery." Chinese brands have improved significantly over the past four years. Some are serious and invest much time and effort into improving their operations.
I fully understand the argument for the support of your community/local store, though. But what if your local distributor starts offering a Chinese brand?
For me personally I would not pay more than 1k USD for frame, same with wheels. But I'm far from being a good cyclist😅
Right now I'm in the process of completing parts for my Chinese built bike. I have Hygge frame for 600 and Elite wheels for 400. Searching for a good price for the groupset.
Ltwoo maybe? :-)
@@cyclistshub I was thinking more about Sensah HRD, because I don't like thumb shifters in Ltwoo. But watching the price of 12 speed 105 from second hand I think I will go this way. Adding to Sensah crankset, cassette, bottom bracket and disc brakes will cost the same as 105 uninstalled new from bikes.
That makes sense. :-) 105 is a good groupset. The only issue I have with it is that it doesn't have the hidden buttons (they knew why they included it in Ultegra and DA only :-D).
@@cyclistshub I was thinking about new mechanical 105 ;)
@@dbgrand oh, ok. You will have plenty of space to upgrade later if necessary. 😊
Good stuff but pricey now, not worth at all.
Hi Danny, thanks for your comment. What is your limit for a frameset?
canyon cf slx for sure
Would you ever consider a Chinese bike?
@@cyclistshub I believe they will take over the cycling industry in the next 5-10 years but for now Ill stick with western brand unless a brand made it to the pro-peleton.
Hm... Time will tell!
If I play a devils advocate, women's team Winspace made it to pro peloton at this year's Vuelta Femenina. 😅
you can really try the 52/34 and 11-40 now🤣
Once I have time to experiment, why not. 🤣
500e that's what I would pay for frame made out of glue and carbon thread
Ding ding, congratulations for winning the comment of the day. 🥳
2:19 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Finally someone reacted to the joke! 😅
@@cyclistshub 😁was a nice one
Chinese frames prices are going through the roof, just like western ones did a few years ago. Personnaly, I would never spend more than 2000€ on a chinese frame.
What is your limit?
Newsflash. Your Western ones are also chinese
pls do something about your vioce
What do you mean, Sam?
Unknown basically & overpriced ,rather buy specialized,trek etc..
Trek and Specialized aren't overpriced? 🤔🙃
Go pay double for a brand name