The tech-suits helped Paul Biedermann have a more balanced body, create less resistance with his legs, and pull the water with his arms more efficiently during the 400 freestyle. The same three things we have helped many people improve with our method, and without a tech-suit. We talked about the method on this video: ruclips.net/video/zAkfpGSC5V8/видео.html To learn the full method with exercises and swim workouts download our app: skillswimming.com/swimming-app/
Also a big reason why we see new world records is because of what we call, the grind. Athletes now often dedicate their entire lives to their sport. They practice every single day and treat their training with great seriousness. This level of commitment was much harder back in the 1900s, as many athletes also had regular jobs and had to take care of their family's.
@@Londo_Mollari No he didn't kid. He trained very hard, though a bit of a head case at times. I was head coach of the Wichita Swim Club from 81 to 84 and had the pleasure of spending a weekend in 83 with James "Doc" Counsilman, his coach at IU and the god father of swimming as well as the author of the Science of Swimming. Mark Spitz trained his ass off lad. Please don't make such ignorant claims.........
@markhartung I think he was being facitious. My brothers and I trained under Sherm Chavoor (same coach as Spitz) in the 70’s. The training method was bludgeoning (2 workouts a day, swimming 20,000 yards a day). It was not a scientific approach to training. It was a nightmare. Today’s workouts are more scientifically designed and more rounded with nutrition, strength and conditioning. The point of this video is that the technology of the suit was an incredible advantage that we are just barely catching up to today. Additionally, most swimmers are now taller on average, which is also advantageous (usually). The question is, where does it end? With these guys just skipping across the water?
to be honest Paul Biedermann's WR was definitely made possible only with the techsuit he was wearing, but I think that should not take anything away from how good of a swimmer he really was. Even during an era where all his competitors were wearing similar technology, he still crushed the rest of the field in a fair race. I also hope that all the techsuit era WRs could be held valid until they are broken by a future swimmer, eventhough I can see why people would find it unfair
I personally don't see what the big deal is. People are always looking for an advantage over their competitors. If they didn't ban the tech suits, the advantage would have been limited, since everyone else would be wearing them, at some point.
Bicycling, speed skating, boating, all types of skiing and I'm sure many other sports have seen improvements in technology for better performance but somehow people aren't crying foul about that. What this video failed to share was that Biedermann in that same 2009 World Championship cleaned Michael Phelps' clock and crushed Phelps' world record in the 200 freestyle. Arena had a suit far superior to that of Speedo that year and Phelps couldn't wear it because he had a contract with Speedo. Nobody had any objection when Speedo had the best suit in 2008 and Phelps won his eight golds. It wasn't until 2009 that people started asking if tech suits can go too far but that's only because Michael Phelps is the sweetheart of the sport. They changed the rules because Michael Phelps didn't win.
Yea. Lets have the Olympic skiers use wooden skis with leather boots and cable bindings, or the cyclists use the same bike from 1912. I would be interested in seeing how many home runs would be hit with a baseball bat from the 1930s.
Exactly on the money. Just look at motorsport. No one is seriously going around and claiming with a straight face that people like Kalle Rovanpera or Max Verstappen aren't top level athletes, but it is still apparent that the teams of engineers developing their tech are just as valuable to their success. Banning new, dominating technology is running on borrowed time. You cannot take technology out of the equation since it affects everyone living in modern civilized society. Instead it appears more prudent to use it as an opportunity for even faster innovation. Just like how there are separate Driver and Manufacturer Championships in many motorsport series, it could enhance the sport further to separate a 'Swimmer' and a 'Suit Manufacturer' championship.
Um...yes they do, those limits are there because someone did something to break equipment parity and the purists/less rich competitors cried foul an made the rules for things like supertucks, skate length, hull shapes, ski lengths etc.... Then there is the perverse incentive for companies to hold tech for their athletes that the olympics is the peak of their sport for just them.
It's ironic that this distance has seen remarkable inprovement on the womes side. Beiderman holds both the 200 and 400 records from 2009. The womens 200 held by Peligrini was finally broken by .13 seconds, but over the same period the 400 has dropped by almost 5 full seconds.
One thing to note: the 2009 polyurethane suit debacle was the culmination of years of techsuit improvements. Thorpe was wearing a one-off wrists-to-neck-to-ankles Adidas suit for years prior. It was very common for other athletes to wear full chest and leg coverings. How much those older suits helped is hard to say, but clearly these world class athletes wouldn't have used them if they didn't help. I think the most telling thing about the "super suit" era is that lots of previously unheralded athletes (Beidermann and Kukors for example) were suddenly smashing world records. Everyone responded to them differently.
I never understood why people hate this particular record and Biedermann, but they never ever mention that Phelps wore the same thing when he established all the 2008 wr and won the eight medals, and still praise him as the greatest. What's the difference?
Ian Thorpe wasn't known as the "Superfish" for nothing. He had swum his way up the ranks here in Australia and was blasting them out of the pool at the age of 14 and 15. At the olympics, he had been training, using the latest theories of technique, diet, rest, workouts etc and honestly probably would have swum something very close to this time even without the suit. Swimmers had been wearing a form of "neck to knees" for the years leading up but it was only after 2009 that the excrement hit the rotating blades. Since then the knowledge of body mechanics, diet, metabolism etc has increased ten fold. Swimmers are generally taller and deeper in the chest then those of the 70's to 90's. This gives them added spring at the start for a faster entry, and the deeper chest leads to increased lung capacity, less need to turn the head for breaths so you maintain the optimum glide position longer, holding more air also increases your natural buoyancy and improved training techniques focusing on particular muscle groups and joints to ensure faster and more effective kicking. Humanity is getting taller, faster, stronger and technology can only help so far, however I think it should either be tech suits (of a standard build/design/material) for all or back to the days of boys and girls in their Speedos, goggles and a swim cap. And of course... NO DruGS!!!!
I say bring em back. I want to see the sport progress. Also all the things that make the suit awesome are also potentially good for the athleetes long term. I mean Im an old swimmer and if i had one of these suits and it improved my bouyancy, blood flow and repelled water wouldnt it reduce the load on my shoulders?
A few ideas: 1. These suits cost upward of $700 in 2009. And their effectiveness diminishes fast (like a few swims per suit). So, cost is prohibitive for the majority of swimmers 2. The suits have a dramatically different effect for swimmers(think biederman/Phelps in the 2009 2 free). Also, since cost is so high, you can’t frequently train in them to figure out how to get the most from them 3. The sport is progressing! As he said, the majority of these records have been beaten. Without regulation, it would be hard to attribute progress to individual effort vs technology
Thorpe was a freak freestyle swimmer. With regard to the full body suit he wore, the fabric was the same as the that for the short swim trunks. FINA decided after the tech suit debacle that any full body suits (at least for male swimmers) would be banned, even if they were made of the same fabric as those of smaller trunks. Interestingly, females still swim in full body suits....for obvious reasons (I think!).
The current suits are more advanced than Ian’s suit. And the Speedo suits at the time were also more advanced than Ian’s adidas suit - he just had a sponsorship with them and they insisted he wear the full suit cos it looked so good on camera. But others didn’t west the full sleeve as they found it restricting.
Technology is okay as long it keeps the playing field even (like swimming in the pool instead of a lake), but if it isnt about swimming anymore but about which country can invest more into developing some new material then I agree with Fina.
This channel keeps me a going! Thank you! Long live technology! LONG LIVE Skills N' Tallents! ❤ This channel helped me beat super obesity, then morbid obesity. Still obese. My best is 10:06 for 500m in 50m pool. This is the place here I learned how to srart, how to enjoy it and avoid injury! ❤❤❤ Swim fast! 🏊♂️🏊♀️🏊♂️🏊♀️
Thank you so much for creating this helpful video! Your clear and easy-to-follow illustrations have really made a difference in my swimming technique. I feel much more confident in the water now, all thanks to your guidance. Keep up the fantastic work!
Information is power. Learning how to train, how to become the most efficient and putting in the time ultimately leads to individuals breaking records. And hunks to your determination to bring this information to the forefront, this is happening!
Does anyone ever thought about changing the water itself? not in the swimming pool of the olimpics or a world championship, but the one they use to training. Some kind of liquid that is harder to swim, making easier to swim fast in regular pool water... It will be tech, but only helping to make the swimmer better. (the liquid had to be somewhat harder to move, but making the swimmer slower than in regular water, forcing his body to be stronger...
Why was this specific record the breaking point? Especially when he only broke it by .01 second? Also, if everyone is using the tech suits, wouldn’t that make it an even playing field? Not sure I get why it’s such a big problem.
I wonder how many swimmers missed out on opportunities because they were more competitive without the tech suits than with them? There must have been some swimmers that were able to get bigger advantages from the suits than others. That's the nature of most sports where performance enhancing clothing is worn.
That’s the funny thing about swimming, it’s the sport most affected by what you wear. The only other sports I can think of where clothing isn’t standardized is cycling kits and triathlon. Cycling, and the UCI already have huge restrictions as to the type of gear you can wear and the bikes you can use, and UCI is FINALLY clawing back some of these restrictions. Triathlon, and the World Triathlon (formally known as ITU) have rules set in place that negate any advantages gained by the gear you bring. In comparison to swimming and any other sport, triathlon is basically the Wild West of clothing and advancements.
I was thinking the same thing! It's only unfair if some have it and some don't. Unless it's like cost prohibitive and the suits are too expensive for some countries then I don't see why they should still be banned.
Also this makes every competition a race for who can improve on the technology. Recources that could be spent on anything else like a) actually improving the sports (like training methods) and/or b) the scientists work on anything that actually benefits society.
question, i have heard that you can rub PONDS COLD CREAM over your body after you shave down just before your swim race to help you swim faster, it makes you very slick and is like teflon when you are in the water, is that true????
I don’t know about that but I once saw a coach spraying spray and cook (like an oil) on his swimmers.😂 It looked ridiculous and we beat the so yeah… I just wouldn’t 😅
Apparently, Zhang didn't have the latest tech suit when the 400 was swum. Given he went 7:32 in the 800, the 400 WR could realistically now stand at 3:38
that's correct. the first 15m of the 400 replay shows the swimmers in lanes 4 and 5, which is made clear by all 4 yellow laneropes. because of where the camera was positioned, the lower swimmer was in lane 5. that was zhang lin, and you can see the speedo logo on his chest. the 800 replay shows no such logo, which is because the chinese team upgraded to the jaked halfway through the week. he wore the lzr in both rounds of the 400, and only dropped 2.3 seconds from heat to final. he wore the lzr for the 800 heat and the jaked in the final, then dropped 16 seconds from his heat swim
Well, I am not sure how much the super suits worked, and I will never find out because I doubt I could get one my size... I consider all of the cross training that goes on now to be probably bigger than the tech suits. All elite swimmers probably put in more time outside the pool than inside. That does not even begin to touch on nutrition and hydration. If there is another big jump in the technology that goes on in swimming, I would expect some one to come up with some method of making a sort of wind tunnel for swimmers. In aviation, wind tunnels with streams of smoke show drag on all things in aviation. We don't have a way to do this with swimmers. At least not yet. Oh, for that last video, I have told my pool that they need to have all of the instructors watch it.
Why not ban googles and swim caps then? Surly they both improve one's time slightly. Sooner or later everyone at the elite level would have been wearing these tech-suits.
The techsuit should be brought back! The requirement for men to swim in just the "panty" suit is also artificial. Men used to swim in full-body or close to full-body suits in the 1920s. Further, most (if not all) swimmers remove most (if not all) of their body hair, except for what's under the swim cap. Should that also be banned? Most technology decisions are arbitrary. I would agree about drugs, because they have side effects, and not all swimmers want to take that risk. The only argument against technologies is that not all countries have the money for the technology, but that could be countered that not all countries have the money for the training facilities! It's probably impossible to put all athletes on equal footing. Thus technologies that are not dangerous should be allowed.
Interesting ! I wonder in what extent the larger base of swimmers worldwide and the swimming federations programs help to detect more talents and, thus, beating records
As someone who likes sports but is not a die-hard swimming fan, I can maybe be unbiased. 400m WR can't be the most hated just based on "technology". If that record was broken only 1 time during the "advanced suite era", then for me technology didn't help that much. As what concerns to doping, Sun almost breaking the WR in 2012 and getting banned in 2018. Yes, athletes dope prior to getting caught, but in that case, their accomplishments are taken away for the time period. There are plenty of athletes who got caught and all results erased in the past X years, but more importantly not every result. So if Sun's time still stands (I don't know if it does), then he didn't get aid from "technology" since he did his time after the suits were banned.
It's hard to say whether tech should be banned, because on one hand the Olympics is about the peak of humans so should showcase their pure unassisted strength, but on the other hand there are much bigger and stronger animals out there but what they don't have is the intelligence to create tech to help them, making the technology a part of humans too. I personally think it's fine to keep these super swimsuits. There's new technology present in every aspect of their lives anyway - access to knowledge meaning better trainers, access to better training facilities, societal changes making pro athlete more accessible and encouraged from an earlier age - why should we allow all that but draw the line at a fancy swimsuit? Even if you ban the super swimsuit, there's been way more research into making the perfect swimsuit and there will probably continue to be more too, will athletes be forced to wear one standard swimsuit forever? Will that extend to running shoes, archery bows, gymnastics equipment, balls and rackets?
I swam competitively from the mid-80's to the early 2000's and have been away from the sport for a long time. I last paid attention around the time suites started to be allowed to cover the thigh. I liked the look but thought they probably gave a little bit of an advantage. The first time I saw a full body suite I laughed. I was like 'WTF! Seriously? Thats legal? When did that happen?' I'm glad they are now banned. They were just too over the top, IMO.
My swimming coach, who were competing at the time, told me, that everyone hated those suits. It took around TWO Hours to put them on. And with a special gloves at that. Once he tryed to put it on without the gloves, and in 15 minutes there were no skin left on his fingers...
If disagree with banning the suit. Technology is part of the sport, records are supposed to be broken over time, and new records are supposed to be made with this new tech. It doesn't take away from the swimmers abilities, it just enhances them. If they want a consistent outfit, they should not be able to make there own suits, suits should be custom made for them by the organization.
I honestly think technology should be allowed. I am a formula 1 fan so I am a bit biased. It is a great way to develop and test new materials that can then be used in other parts of life. Also if everyone has it so there isn't a disadvantage for anyone. You could use different categories if you want for a more Natural competition.
Does everyone forget Ian Thorpe wore a full body suit (wrists to ankles) that no-one else wore and no-one battered an eyelid about the word record then. As history shows, technology moves on Not one athletes fault if their competitors don't wear the same suit Though do agree the records being SMASHED with the Jaked suits were ridiculous
I think that this situation is a good thing overall. I see people truly interested in the sport, to the point of using nasa-designed gear, and more remarkable the fact that most of them are willing to break those marks without it. Is interesting and inspiring.
If Thorpe used the banned suit the 400m would be just impossible to break I’m 100% sure he would have gone under 3.38 and that is Alien territory!!! Everyone keep saying about new swimmers but Ian Thorpe was and still is the King of 400m period *btw the half suits they use nowadays are faster than the whole body suit Thorpe was using in 2002!!
@@Ineddiblehulk the companies and sponsorship logos could still be adjusted - like the print on the swimsuit itself doesn't matter or put them on the towels or have them wear bathrobes
I have a completely random question. At 2:52 you used an image to represent 'technology'. Do you know what that drone-like thing is? It is used as an icon in the game Geometry Dash.
I feel like at some point people would start to use tech suits again because at some point you’ll eventually come to the limits of the human body and need technology to achieve eventually better results
Lots of people swam times in those suits in 2009 that they couldn't come anywhere near after the suits were banned. That's enough of a reason that all records set while wearing the suits should be negated.
Honestly I feel like it's not a problem except for it kind of hurts swimmers that don't have the money to be buying these really expensive suits all the time and yeah I kind of put some monetary bar on getting to the highest level which is not always fun and they're already is some of that with swimming
this doesnt make any sense to me. The suits are too good and provide to much of an advantage, but the WRs from when the suits were used are mostly shattered. If I compare this to a sport like running and the 4min mile in highschool, from 1964-2000 7 events had someone run a 4min mile and 5 of those times were 1 person, that is until shoe tech advanced and they became lighter and more comfortable and now nearly every year 1-2 kids will be added to the list
This why I love sports but find my fellow sports fans super annoying. Increases in technology are part of who we are. If everyone has the technology than the field is even. I hate this attitude.
By what percantage make suits swimming faster. By what percantage make shoes running faster compared to bare feat. I would like to see the precantages of those two.
Shouldn't new tech be standardized and generalized so that personal effort and inherent talent would still be the main deciders of the outcomes but with records becoming more impressive because of the new tech? As long as everyone has the tech I don't see why it should be banned. In football, there were no offsides at some point, now we have VAR ruling out goals by the thinnest of margins, goals that wouldn't have been disallowed 10 years ago, but it makes the game fairer as long as it is used correctly by refs. Balls went through multiple transformations too, players wear equipment that tracks their physical status in training and allows for more efficient training plans, coaches can have recourse to synthesized data, simulations, etc. and have a team of experts providing these tools. The game has changed a lot, but is still quite enjoyable, and it is understood that Cristiano's record and Pele's record when it comes to goal scoring happened in very different eras, while we praise Cristiano for now being the all time top goal scorer, we can still appreciate Pele's equally impressive achievement, and how much time and progress it took to break it, if anything it's a testament to his talent (despite the game not having an offside rule back then)
Speaking of too much technology. The clocks are problematic these days too. Old records were recorded with a handheld mechanical stop watch. Those things aren't accurate to more than 0.1 second and is dependent on the reaction speed of the man holding the watch. The 0.01 second gains made today would have been a rounding error in the past.
If they don't want "technology" in the sport then they should swim nude. You can't say some suits are ok and others aren't. Nobody's gonna win in a wool suit but don't fool yourself the early 19's records already had technology and thru history athletes always try to maximise there technology advantage. It doesn't even really matter what the world record is all that really matters is that the contests are fair and entertaining. The problem is that watching swimming has become boreing if someone isn't going to break a record, we want drama and entertainment. Maybe swimmers should make there own clothes from scratch that would add veriaty. The problem isn't that they have suits the problem is that all the suits are identical made by factories. If you could only make a suit from what you could grow and stitch yourself it would be wayyyyy more entertaining with more variation would still be fair considering you would have to take time out of youre training to grow materials and make youre suit.
Tech suits are an issue but where do you draw the line? Not sure about global rules but only a couple of years ago did FINA ban wearing two tech suits because it created too much buoyancy. These suits are getting nuts. Speedo's LZR Pure Intent 2.0 came out this year and is retailing at $630.99(kneeskin) here in the US. If you have the money or your school is paying for your suit, cool, but a lot of swimmers do not have the means to buy the top of the line suits. At a certain point only the affluent are able to compete with the best legal tech. With that said, the retail prices are expected to come back down to normal levels next fall, but my point remains. You also need to remember that were not just talking about adults or high school swimmers but young kids 13 and under. Luckily there are rules in place that keep preteens out of these big ticket tech suits but in light of the rules spawned a tech suit line for them that still holds a price tag of $110 or more. We had a little girl come into our store one day, upset, she had made it into the finals for her YMCA Zones meet and she was the only kid without a tech suit on and she felt she needed one to compete. It was heartbreaking to see, here was an exceptional little swimmer who made it there on her own merits and because of a swim suit probably got in her own head over it, doubting herself in the moment.
I understand these results seem fake. I agree that it takes away the romantic feeling of beating a world record. I do feel that there is an element of evolution we need to consider. Arguably all the running shoes today is better than those in the 1930s. The tennis racquets today are better than those wooden ones in the 60s. This is arguably along the same lines
Sorry, but did Ian Thorpe not race in a suit aswel? He practically invented it! Wore the suit from the hotel in the bus to the pool so nobody knew if he maybe even had two suits on.
Records are meant to be broken. I have no problem with "high tech" swimsuits or running shoes. As long as the athlete themself is the source of the motion, it's fine. Honestly, I'm even fine with doping, but I can see how that's a competitive negative spiral so the ban on doping is legitimate because it's for the athlete's saftey. Until you prove that these suits are unsafe, I don't really care.
sadly, the athletes in the tech suit era couldn't compete properly against the greatest swimmers that came before them... they trained hard and were in their prime yet it feels impossible to compare their achievements with their predecessors due to misplaced technological advances - hopefully, we all learned the lesson those guys paid the price for
if one compared this to a sport likecycling its mental how little technology there is in swimming. But I think it is nice, since one doesnt need thatmuch money to theoretically be competitiv.
If it takes years and years to barely break a record even with the infamous techsuit, it could be good to question the prevvious record in the fist place.
Honestly I understand why people were upset and it’s justified but what everyone needs to understand about this is no matter what it happened and can’t change it. It’s a mark in history and it’ll be just that. By the time the Olympics are over this year, this WR will likely be gone.
I would say the most hated is the 1500m. Because it is attached to a suspected doping abuser. Obviously Sun technique is pristine and perfect but we cannot deny the suspicions.
I don't know how many times people are gonna get this wrong, but his most recent ban was for a violation of doping testing regulations, not for an actual positive test. Really wish people would get that right. He was banned not because he was actively caught doping, but because he smashed the vial of blood on instruction by his coach after they grew suspicious of the testers who came to collect the samples. Keep in mind these guys are tested quite often already...
@@Mike-bc7xv We all know the Vial situation at least those that are serious about swimming so no I am not getting it wrong. Sun had quite a bit misconduct before that test that gave extremely high suspicions. And even all of his opponents commented stuff that led to even more suspicions and you dont see that often at that level. Hell I have not seen that level of doubt from Qin Haiyang thats smashed the breastroke last year......so I doubt it is only because he is chinese. His personality didint help either. And to not give the wrong Idea, I love Sun Yang technique and even watched a lot his loop to improve my technique in the 1500m but lets not be blind to what seemed obvious as a person he was hard to like.
The fact people are breaking the records set in these suits shows that the outrage over them was complete bs. The athletes whining about this are swimmers who couldn't break the record either way. They just wanted a scapegoat for their own limitations.
How about the guy who broke the record for the 1500 while doping.(not 100% proven but a huge conspiracy between us milers) A year after breaking the record he was banned for life fro doping
The tech-suits helped Paul Biedermann have a more balanced body, create less resistance with his legs, and pull the water with his arms more efficiently during the 400 freestyle. The same three things we have helped many people improve with our method, and without a tech-suit.
We talked about the method on this video:
ruclips.net/video/zAkfpGSC5V8/видео.html
To learn the full method with exercises and swim workouts download our app:
skillswimming.com/swimming-app/
Personaly, I think you need to take a look about wat is happening in Eindhoven, the netherlands.
Right now they can track people with 2mm insurance
Didnt Phelps also get a huge advantage due to his suits in previous competitions?
Also a big reason why we see new world records is because of what we call, the grind. Athletes now often dedicate their entire lives to their sport. They practice every single day and treat their training with great seriousness. This level of commitment was much harder back in the 1900s, as many athletes also had regular jobs and had to take care of their family's.
@@Londo_Mollari No he didn't kid. He trained very hard, though a bit of a head case at times. I was head coach of the Wichita Swim Club from 81 to 84 and had the pleasure of spending a weekend in 83 with James "Doc" Counsilman, his coach at IU and the god father of swimming as well as the author of the Science of Swimming. Mark Spitz trained his ass off lad. Please don't make such ignorant claims.........
@markhartung I think he was being facitious. My brothers and I trained under Sherm Chavoor (same coach as Spitz) in the 70’s. The training method was bludgeoning (2 workouts a day, swimming 20,000 yards a day). It was not a scientific approach to training. It was a nightmare. Today’s workouts are more scientifically designed and more rounded with nutrition, strength and conditioning. The point of this video is that the technology of the suit was an incredible advantage that we are just barely catching up to today. Additionally, most swimmers are now taller on average, which is also advantageous (usually). The question is, where does it end? With these guys just skipping across the water?
And because of technique advancements
Their family is what?
Better nutrition and more efficient training and technique advancement as well.
to be honest Paul Biedermann's WR was definitely made possible only with the techsuit he was wearing, but I think that should not take anything away from how good of a swimmer he really was. Even during an era where all his competitors were wearing similar technology, he still crushed the rest of the field in a fair race. I also hope that all the techsuit era WRs could be held valid until they are broken by a future swimmer, eventhough I can see why people would find it unfair
I’m pretty sure tech suit records are still recorded, but marked with an asterisk.
I personally don't see what the big deal is. People are always looking for an advantage over their competitors. If they didn't ban the tech suits, the advantage would have been limited, since everyone else would be wearing them, at some point.
well old WR thorpe said he could had even faster if he had given more focus for the race.
Bicycling, speed skating, boating, all types of skiing and I'm sure many other sports have seen improvements in technology for better performance but somehow people aren't crying foul about that. What this video failed to share was that Biedermann in that same 2009 World Championship cleaned Michael Phelps' clock and crushed Phelps' world record in the 200 freestyle. Arena had a suit far superior to that of Speedo that year and Phelps couldn't wear it because he had a contract with Speedo. Nobody had any objection when Speedo had the best suit in 2008 and Phelps won his eight golds.
It wasn't until 2009 that people started asking if tech suits can go too far but that's only because Michael Phelps is the sweetheart of the sport. They changed the rules because Michael Phelps didn't win.
Yea. Lets have the Olympic skiers use wooden skis with leather boots and cable bindings, or the cyclists use the same bike from 1912. I would be interested in seeing how many home runs would be hit with a baseball bat from the 1930s.
Exactly on the money. Just look at motorsport. No one is seriously going around and claiming with a straight face that people like Kalle Rovanpera or Max Verstappen aren't top level athletes, but it is still apparent that the teams of engineers developing their tech are just as valuable to their success. Banning new, dominating technology is running on borrowed time. You cannot take technology out of the equation since it affects everyone living in modern civilized society. Instead it appears more prudent to use it as an opportunity for even faster innovation. Just like how there are separate Driver and Manufacturer Championships in many motorsport series, it could enhance the sport further to separate a 'Swimmer' and a 'Suit Manufacturer' championship.
You actually do see these discussions in running, where certain shoes are being banned.
Um...yes they do, those limits are there because someone did something to break equipment parity and the purists/less rich competitors cried foul an made the rules for things like supertucks, skate length, hull shapes, ski lengths etc....
Then there is the perverse incentive for companies to hold tech for their athletes that the olympics is the peak of their sport for just them.
if body and tech suits are allowed, why not allow flippers too?
It's ironic that this distance has seen remarkable inprovement on the womes side. Beiderman holds both the 200 and 400 records from 2009. The womens 200 held by Peligrini was finally broken by .13 seconds, but over the same period the 400 has dropped by almost 5 full seconds.
It's called Katie Ledecky........Then the others followed......
One thing to note: the 2009 polyurethane suit debacle was the culmination of years of techsuit improvements. Thorpe was wearing a one-off wrists-to-neck-to-ankles Adidas suit for years prior. It was very common for other athletes to wear full chest and leg coverings. How much those older suits helped is hard to say, but clearly these world class athletes wouldn't have used them if they didn't help. I think the most telling thing about the "super suit" era is that lots of previously unheralded athletes (Beidermann and Kukors for example) were suddenly smashing world records. Everyone responded to them differently.
me with my 10$ swimshorts: hmm interesting 🤔
I never understood why people hate this particular record and Biedermann, but they never ever mention that Phelps wore the same thing when he established all the 2008 wr and won the eight medals, and still praise him as the greatest. What's the difference?
Ian Thorpe wasn't known as the "Superfish" for nothing. He had swum his way up the ranks here in Australia and was blasting them out of the pool at the age of 14 and 15. At the olympics, he had been training, using the latest theories of technique, diet, rest, workouts etc and honestly probably would have swum something very close to this time even without the suit. Swimmers had been wearing a form of "neck to knees" for the years leading up but it was only after 2009 that the excrement hit the rotating blades.
Since then the knowledge of body mechanics, diet, metabolism etc has increased ten fold. Swimmers are generally taller and deeper in the chest then those of the 70's to 90's. This gives them added spring at the start for a faster entry, and the deeper chest leads to increased lung capacity, less need to turn the head for breaths so you maintain the optimum glide position longer, holding more air also increases your natural buoyancy and improved training techniques focusing on particular muscle groups and joints to ensure faster and more effective kicking.
Humanity is getting taller, faster, stronger and technology can only help so far, however I think it should either be tech suits (of a standard build/design/material) for all or back to the days of boys and girls in their Speedos, goggles and a swim cap. And of course... NO DruGS!!!!
Ian Thorpe had the Advantage of Genetics, size 17 bloody feet. What an absolute weapon and wonderful human
I once tried on one of his running shoes. I wear a 13 and mine felt like children's feet inside his running shoes!
I say bring em back. I want to see the sport progress. Also all the things that make the suit awesome are also potentially good for the athleetes long term. I mean Im an old swimmer and if i had one of these suits and it improved my bouyancy, blood flow and repelled water wouldnt it reduce the load on my shoulders?
A few ideas:
1. These suits cost upward of $700 in 2009. And their effectiveness diminishes fast (like a few swims per suit). So, cost is prohibitive for the majority of swimmers
2. The suits have a dramatically different effect for swimmers(think biederman/Phelps in the 2009 2 free). Also, since cost is so high, you can’t frequently train in them to figure out how to get the most from them
3. The sport is progressing! As he said, the majority of these records have been beaten. Without regulation, it would be hard to attribute progress to individual effort vs technology
use flippers, a much cheaper way to improve your buoyancy :D
Thorpe was a freak freestyle swimmer. With regard to the full body suit he wore, the fabric was the same as the that for the short swim trunks. FINA decided after the tech suit debacle that any full body suits (at least for male swimmers) would be banned, even if they were made of the same fabric as those of smaller trunks. Interestingly, females still swim in full body suits....for obvious reasons (I think!).
I wonder what Thorpe could’ve done in the suit
@@skinless5136 WR for sure
I thought you were going to complain about women wearing suits that cover their tops. 😅😂
Ian Thorpe was indeed way ahead of his time. He is still the WR holder in my book. Best 400M freestyler of all time
The current suits are more advanced than Ian’s suit. And the Speedo suits at the time were also more advanced than Ian’s adidas suit - he just had a sponsorship with them and they insisted he wear the full suit cos it looked so good on camera. But others didn’t west the full sleeve as they found it restricting.
Thank you for the video and keeping swimming interesting. I can't wait for the next videos!!
Technology is okay as long it keeps the playing field even (like swimming in the pool instead of a lake), but if it isnt about swimming anymore but about which country can invest more into developing some new material then I agree with Fina.
I find it a little funny that the tech suits were not a problem until Speedo didn't have the fastest suit. Arena and Jaked.
This channel keeps me a going! Thank you! Long live technology! LONG LIVE Skills N' Tallents! ❤ This channel helped me beat super obesity, then morbid obesity. Still obese. My best is 10:06 for 500m in 50m pool. This is the place here I learned how to srart, how to enjoy it and avoid injury! ❤❤❤ Swim fast! 🏊♂️🏊♀️🏊♂️🏊♀️
One suggestion: at the start of the video, please tell us who, what, when broke the world record. The info isn’t given until the 3:45 mark.
Thank you so much for creating this helpful video! Your clear and easy-to-follow illustrations have really made a difference in my swimming technique. I feel much more confident in the water now, all thanks to your guidance. Keep up the fantastic work!
Information is power. Learning how to train, how to become the most efficient and putting in the time ultimately leads to individuals breaking records. And hunks to your determination to bring this information to the forefront, this is happening!
Does anyone ever thought about changing the water itself? not in the swimming pool of the olimpics or a world championship, but the one they use to training. Some kind of liquid that is harder to swim, making easier to swim fast in regular pool water... It will be tech, but only helping to make the swimmer better. (the liquid had to be somewhat harder to move, but making the swimmer slower than in regular water, forcing his body to be stronger...
they have even adding currents against you
Why was this specific record the breaking point? Especially when he only broke it by .01 second? Also, if everyone is using the tech suits, wouldn’t that make it an even playing field? Not sure I get why it’s such a big problem.
I wonder how many swimmers missed out on opportunities because they were more competitive without the tech suits than with them? There must have been some swimmers that were able to get bigger advantages from the suits than others. That's the nature of most sports where performance enhancing clothing is worn.
That’s the funny thing about swimming, it’s the sport most affected by what you wear. The only other sports I can think of where clothing isn’t standardized is cycling kits and triathlon. Cycling, and the UCI already have huge restrictions as to the type of gear you can wear and the bikes you can use, and UCI is FINALLY clawing back some of these restrictions. Triathlon, and the World Triathlon (formally known as ITU) have rules set in place that negate any advantages gained by the gear you bring. In comparison to swimming and any other sport, triathlon is basically the Wild West of clothing and advancements.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but why doesn't everyone just use this suit? Wouldn't that make the chances fair again?
I was thinking the same thing! It's only unfair if some have it and some don't. Unless it's like cost prohibitive and the suits are too expensive for some countries then I don't see why they should still be banned.
Not every young swimmer can afford a tech suit.
They’re REALLY expensive.
Also this makes every competition a race for who can improve on the technology.
Recources that could be spent on anything else like a) actually improving the sports (like training methods) and/or b) the scientists work on anything that actually benefits society.
Its banned because it was genuinely just too efficient It almost took away from the swimming aspect and just if you had enough money to buy the suit.
question, i have heard that you can rub PONDS COLD CREAM over your body after you shave down just before your swim race to help you swim faster, it makes you very slick and is like teflon when you are in the water, is that true????
I don’t know about that but I once saw a coach spraying spray and cook (like an oil) on his swimmers.😂
It looked ridiculous and we beat the so yeah… I just wouldn’t 😅
I’m really looking forward to your videos on each Olympic event, thanks
Kimda weird that people say it takes the technic out of it. Same suits=techniques matter again.
Biedermann probably could’ve broken 3:40 if he didn’t do the 1980s era start with two feet at the front of the blocks.
Thorpe would have (not probably) broken 3:40 at CG 2002 had he made an extra stroke and not taken it easy at finish and glided to wall
🤣
Apparently, Zhang didn't have the latest tech suit when the 400 was swum. Given he went 7:32 in the 800, the 400 WR could realistically now stand at 3:38
that's correct. the first 15m of the 400 replay shows the swimmers in lanes 4 and 5, which is made clear by all 4 yellow laneropes. because of where the camera was positioned, the lower swimmer was in lane 5. that was zhang lin, and you can see the speedo logo on his chest. the 800 replay shows no such logo, which is because the chinese team upgraded to the jaked halfway through the week. he wore the lzr in both rounds of the 400, and only dropped 2.3 seconds from heat to final. he wore the lzr for the 800 heat and the jaked in the final, then dropped 16 seconds from his heat swim
....and given he was likely on the juice.
@@BG-id2cv Evidence?
Well, I am not sure how much the super suits worked, and I will never find out because I doubt I could get one my size... I consider all of the cross training that goes on now to be probably bigger than the tech suits. All elite swimmers probably put in more time outside the pool than inside. That does not even begin to touch on nutrition and hydration. If there is another big jump in the technology that goes on in swimming, I would expect some one to come up with some method of making a sort of wind tunnel for swimmers. In aviation, wind tunnels with streams of smoke show drag on all things in aviation. We don't have a way to do this with swimmers. At least not yet.
Oh, for that last video, I have told my pool that they need to have all of the instructors watch it.
Why not ban googles and swim caps then? Surly they both improve one's time slightly. Sooner or later everyone at the elite level would have been wearing these tech-suits.
The techsuit should be brought back! The requirement for men to swim in just the "panty" suit is also artificial. Men used to swim in full-body or close to full-body suits in the 1920s. Further, most (if not all) swimmers remove most (if not all) of their body hair, except for what's under the swim cap. Should that also be banned? Most technology decisions are arbitrary. I would agree about drugs, because they have side effects, and not all swimmers want to take that risk. The only argument against technologies is that not all countries have the money for the technology, but that could be countered that not all countries have the money for the training facilities! It's probably impossible to put all athletes on equal footing. Thus technologies that are not dangerous should be allowed.
Interesting ! I wonder in what extent the larger base of swimmers worldwide and the swimming federations programs help to detect more talents and, thus, beating records
As someone who likes sports but is not a die-hard swimming fan, I can maybe be unbiased. 400m WR can't be the most hated just based on "technology". If that record was broken only 1 time during the "advanced suite era", then for me technology didn't help that much. As what concerns to doping, Sun almost breaking the WR in 2012 and getting banned in 2018. Yes, athletes dope prior to getting caught, but in that case, their accomplishments are taken away for the time period. There are plenty of athletes who got caught and all results erased in the past X years, but more importantly not every result. So if Sun's time still stands (I don't know if it does), then he didn't get aid from "technology" since he did his time after the suits were banned.
You finally started uploading after a bagillion years
And you've literally never posted a video on yours. Brilliant 😂
It's hard to say whether tech should be banned, because on one hand the Olympics is about the peak of humans so should showcase their pure unassisted strength, but on the other hand there are much bigger and stronger animals out there but what they don't have is the intelligence to create tech to help them, making the technology a part of humans too.
I personally think it's fine to keep these super swimsuits. There's new technology present in every aspect of their lives anyway - access to knowledge meaning better trainers, access to better training facilities, societal changes making pro athlete more accessible and encouraged from an earlier age - why should we allow all that but draw the line at a fancy swimsuit? Even if you ban the super swimsuit, there's been way more research into making the perfect swimsuit and there will probably continue to be more too, will athletes be forced to wear one standard swimsuit forever? Will that extend to running shoes, archery bows, gymnastics equipment, balls and rackets?
I swam competitively from the mid-80's to the early 2000's and have been away from the sport for a long time. I last paid attention around the time suites started to be allowed to cover the thigh. I liked the look but thought they probably gave a little bit of an advantage. The first time I saw a full body suite I laughed. I was like 'WTF! Seriously? Thats legal? When did that happen?' I'm glad they are now banned. They were just too over the top, IMO.
My swimming coach, who were competing at the time, told me, that everyone hated those suits.
It took around TWO Hours to put them on. And with a special gloves at that.
Once he tryed to put it on without the gloves, and in 15 minutes there were no skin left on his fingers...
If disagree with banning the suit. Technology is part of the sport, records are supposed to be broken over time, and new records are supposed to be made with this new tech. It doesn't take away from the swimmers abilities, it just enhances them.
If they want a consistent outfit, they should not be able to make there own suits, suits should be custom made for them by the organization.
Biedermann also holds the 200 meter WR wearing the same suit.
I honestly think technology should be allowed. I am a formula 1 fan so I am a bit biased. It is a great way to develop and test new materials that can then be used in other parts of life. Also if everyone has it so there isn't a disadvantage for anyone. You could use different categories if you want for a more Natural competition.
Does everyone forget Ian Thorpe wore a full body suit (wrists to ankles) that no-one else wore and no-one battered an eyelid about the word record then.
As history shows, technology moves on
Not one athletes fault if their competitors don't wear the same suit
Though do agree the records being SMASHED with the Jaked suits were ridiculous
The full body suits helps a lot . Even the trousers helps a bit and act as flippers
I think that this situation is a good thing overall. I see people truly interested in the sport, to the point of using nasa-designed gear, and more remarkable the fact that most of them are willing to break those marks without it. Is interesting and inspiring.
If Thorpe used the banned suit the 400m would be just impossible to break
I’m 100% sure he would have gone under 3.38 and that is Alien territory!!!
Everyone keep saying about new swimmers but Ian Thorpe was and still is the King of 400m period
*btw the half suits they use nowadays are faster than the whole body suit Thorpe was using in 2002!!
I mean why not have the same swimsuit for everyone and stick with it for the Olympics?
Because different countries and individuals have different sponsorship deals with different companies.
@@Ineddiblehulk the companies and sponsorship logos could still be adjusted - like the print on the swimsuit itself doesn't matter or put them on the towels or have them wear bathrobes
I believe that 400 free WR will be broken at the Olympics, but I am concerned that we will not see anyone touch the 800 free WR from 2009 :(
2:49 Ghost jumpscare
????
This is why the original Olympics were done naked as it should be. Imagine the increased viewership.😅
Very informative video. I had no idea people were so angry.
Ian Thorpe went 3:41 in a brief at 16 years old. With our modern suits he would be under the 3:40 world record already.
I have a completely random question. At 2:52 you used an image to represent 'technology'. Do you know what that drone-like thing is? It is used as an icon in the game Geometry Dash.
It is a ghost from destiny
I don’t understand why people don’t accept that creating technology is just a human skill as moving the muscles.
yes, its like ai
Is your book SN’T available online to order ?
Kickboxers wear shorts that have a sli om each side so the shorts don't stretch when kicking high.
One of the crazy things about the modern suits is that since they're so hydrophobic, you don't even need to towel off: water beads right off!
I feel like at some point people would start to use tech suits again because at some point you’ll eventually come to the limits of the human body and need technology to achieve eventually better results
Ian Thorpe was Phelps before Phelps, a freaking swimming legend.
the stock video clips make me click away
Lots of people swam times in those suits in 2009 that they couldn't come anywhere near after the suits were banned. That's enough of a reason that all records set while wearing the suits should be negated.
Honestly I feel like it's not a problem except for it kind of hurts swimmers that don't have the money to be buying these really expensive suits all the time and yeah I kind of put some monetary bar on getting to the highest level which is not always fun and they're already is some of that with swimming
this doesnt make any sense to me. The suits are too good and provide to much of an advantage, but the WRs from when the suits were used are mostly shattered. If I compare this to a sport like running and the 4min mile in highschool, from 1964-2000 7 events had someone run a 4min mile and 5 of those times were 1 person, that is until shoe tech advanced and they became lighter and more comfortable and now nearly every year 1-2 kids will be added to the list
This why I love sports but find my fellow sports fans super annoying. Increases in technology are part of who we are. If everyone has the technology than the field is even. I hate this attitude.
By what percantage make suits swimming faster. By what percantage make shoes running faster compared to bare feat. I would like to see the precantages of those two.
Shouldn't new tech be standardized and generalized so that personal effort and inherent talent would still be the main deciders of the outcomes but with records becoming more impressive because of the new tech? As long as everyone has the tech I don't see why it should be banned. In football, there were no offsides at some point, now we have VAR ruling out goals by the thinnest of margins, goals that wouldn't have been disallowed 10 years ago, but it makes the game fairer as long as it is used correctly by refs. Balls went through multiple transformations too, players wear equipment that tracks their physical status in training and allows for more efficient training plans, coaches can have recourse to synthesized data, simulations, etc. and have a team of experts providing these tools. The game has changed a lot, but is still quite enjoyable, and it is understood that Cristiano's record and Pele's record when it comes to goal scoring happened in very different eras, while we praise Cristiano for now being the all time top goal scorer, we can still appreciate Pele's equally impressive achievement, and how much time and progress it took to break it, if anything it's a testament to his talent (despite the game not having an offside rule back then)
Fascinating review!
Damn - still a way off the world record time in 1908!
leon marchond might as well beat all those records that still stand
Speaking of too much technology. The clocks are problematic these days too. Old records were recorded with a handheld mechanical stop watch. Those things aren't accurate to more than 0.1 second and is dependent on the reaction speed of the man holding the watch. The 0.01 second gains made today would have been a rounding error in the past.
If they don't want "technology" in the sport then they should swim nude. You can't say some suits are ok and others aren't. Nobody's gonna win in a wool suit but don't fool yourself the early 19's records already had technology and thru history athletes always try to maximise there technology advantage. It doesn't even really matter what the world record is all that really matters is that the contests are fair and entertaining. The problem is that watching swimming has become boreing if someone isn't going to break a record, we want drama and entertainment. Maybe swimmers should make there own clothes from scratch that would add veriaty. The problem isn't that they have suits the problem is that all the suits are identical made by factories. If you could only make a suit from what you could grow and stitch yourself it would be wayyyyy more entertaining with more variation would still be fair considering you would have to take time out of youre training to grow materials and make youre suit.
Naked Olympics or Riot.
The Olympics were held in Athens in 2004
Just dont make sense the banning of the tech suits. Should they use one that hinders the performance? Should they swim naked?
Let's be real with ourselves here, the majority of athletes at this level have used PEDS.
Tech suits are an issue but where do you draw the line? Not sure about global rules but only a couple of years ago did FINA ban wearing two tech suits because it created too much buoyancy. These suits are getting nuts. Speedo's LZR Pure Intent 2.0 came out this year and is retailing at $630.99(kneeskin) here in the US. If you have the money or your school is paying for your suit, cool, but a lot of swimmers do not have the means to buy the top of the line suits. At a certain point only the affluent are able to compete with the best legal tech. With that said, the retail prices are expected to come back down to normal levels next fall, but my point remains.
You also need to remember that were not just talking about adults or high school swimmers but young kids 13 and under. Luckily there are rules in place that keep preteens out of these big ticket tech suits but in light of the rules spawned a tech suit line for them that still holds a price tag of $110 or more. We had a little girl come into our store one day, upset, she had made it into the finals for her YMCA Zones meet and she was the only kid without a tech suit on and she felt she needed one to compete. It was heartbreaking to see, here was an exceptional little swimmer who made it there on her own merits and because of a swim suit probably got in her own head over it, doubting herself in the moment.
Bro the suit ain’t swimming for them😂
I understand these results seem fake. I agree that it takes away the romantic feeling of beating a world record. I do feel that there is an element of evolution we need to consider. Arguably all the running shoes today is better than those in the 1930s. The tennis racquets today are better than those wooden ones in the 60s. This is arguably along the same lines
Sorry, but did Ian Thorpe not race in a suit aswel? He practically invented it! Wore the suit from the hotel in the bus to the pool so nobody knew if he maybe even had two suits on.
Truly love it❤❤❤
Records are meant to be broken. I have no problem with "high tech" swimsuits or running shoes. As long as the athlete themself is the source of the motion, it's fine. Honestly, I'm even fine with doping, but I can see how that's a competitive negative spiral so the ban on doping is legitimate because it's for the athlete's saftey. Until you prove that these suits are unsafe, I don't really care.
I can't hear this video over the noise of all the junk on the Olympic archery competition bows.
sadly, the athletes in the tech suit era couldn't compete properly against the greatest swimmers that came before them... they trained hard and were in their prime yet it feels impossible to compare their achievements with their predecessors due to misplaced technological advances - hopefully, we all learned the lesson those guys paid the price for
if one compared this to a sport likecycling its mental how little technology there is in swimming. But I think it is nice, since one doesnt need thatmuch money to theoretically be competitiv.
The worst part is that Bedermann's resumé aside from 2009 isn't great.
If it takes years and years to barely break a record even with the infamous techsuit, it could be good to question the prevvious record in the fist place.
I like this video. I subscribe.
It's hard to be that upset with Thorpe's record when he had already broken it 4 times before that dating back to 1999.
Honestly I understand why people were upset and it’s justified but what everyone needs to understand about this is no matter what it happened and can’t change it. It’s a mark in history and it’ll be just that. By the time the Olympics are over this year, this WR will likely be gone.
im angry theres not more technology/drugs/medical tricks to see the true pinnacle of human achievement
I would say the most hated is the 1500m. Because it is attached to a suspected doping abuser. Obviously Sun technique is pristine and perfect but we cannot deny the suspicions.
I don't know how many times people are gonna get this wrong, but his most recent ban was for a violation of doping testing regulations, not for an actual positive test. Really wish people would get that right. He was banned not because he was actively caught doping, but because he smashed the vial of blood on instruction by his coach after they grew suspicious of the testers who came to collect the samples. Keep in mind these guys are tested quite often already...
@@Mike-bc7xv We all know the Vial situation at least those that are serious about swimming so no I am not getting it wrong. Sun had quite a bit misconduct before that test that gave extremely high suspicions. And even all of his opponents commented stuff that led to even more suspicions and you dont see that often at that level. Hell I have not seen that level of doubt from Qin Haiyang thats smashed the breastroke last year......so I doubt it is only because he is chinese. His personality didint help either. And to not give the wrong Idea, I love Sun Yang technique and even watched a lot his loop to improve my technique in the 1500m but lets not be blind to what seemed obvious as a person he was hard to like.
why did you stop making videos?
To create our swim method in our app.
but if everybody wears the suits, how is that an advantage and why is it bad to keep breaking records?
Hola cuando vas a volver a hacer videos pero en el canal de español?
Ya casi. vamos a sacar en español los mismos 37 videos antes de los olímpicos.
hello when are you going to return to doing spanish videos (i have a B in spanish ok ;-;)
@@aerialz7175 you better go to our channel in Spanish. We have been publishing there
The fact people are breaking the records set in these suits shows that the outrage over them was complete bs.
The athletes whining about this are swimmers who couldn't break the record either way. They just wanted a scapegoat for their own limitations.
Um. Weren't all the swimmers wearing tech suits? Doesn't that eliminate any advantage?
But every other 2009 record was broken later, why not Biedermanns? Everyone weared those suits
How could they ban the suits but not the records?
How about the guy who broke the record for the 1500 while doping.(not 100% proven but a huge conspiracy between us milers) A year after breaking the record he was banned for life fro doping
Which guy?
Why is this even a thing! Everyone should wear standartized and same suits! Even a 9 year old can understand this!