@@thebeststooge Wait, wasn't the prime directive not to talk about the prime directive. Can't really remember because all the temporal anomalies with this timeline..
I am very impressed! 3/8" mild steel! On a home heat treated punch and die set is awesome! Have been a Tool and Diemaker/Gagemaker/ Instrument Maker for 39 years.
My Dad is 92, he and his brother had a metal shop in the basement when I was a kid. I remember watching them with 2 big lathes, a milling machine, shop punch, electric hacksaws, torch etc. They were great machinists. They moved the shop before my teens, now I'm 62 and this was a trip down memory lane. Wish I had him teach me more, but I ended up an EE designing circuits.
When my son was a boy the kids had things they call "pogs." They were basically small round disk and they had some sort of game they played with them. I can't remember the game. So I had an Iron Worker machine and I was always punching out metal and my son would collect the disk, paint them and sell them at school as "metal pogs." His metal pogs were in high demand among the school kids and my son was rolling in the dough. This video brought back that good memory.
you slam the Metal coin like pog called a "Slamer" onto a stack of cardboard pogs, what ever cardboard pog fliped over onto its Picture side you get for good not just for the game. A kid can take 70% of your pogs if he was good. The Metal Slamers you don't lose. The baned them at my school b/c kids get sad when they lose there pogs. Floyd's kid sounds like he was taking everyones pogs, So everyone wanted the cool personal bad ass Slammer that was crushing everone. Lossing your pogs in a game was like lossing money playing Cards.
After this kind of heat treatment you should grind parts a little bit (around 0.8mm on diameter and 0.3mm on ends) because they are much harder inside than outside (that means you have to make larger diameter and grind parts to the right dimension after heat treatment). There should be also some clearance between punch and a die wich depends on a thicknes of a material you are punching. (Thicker material > bigger clearance because you dont need that much force to punch, but it cant be to big because material will bend around hole). Im a toolmaker in Poland and i did a lot of stuff like that mostly on wire EDM and honestly i like watching chanells like this one because you guys have something very important - passion and heart for the job so you are often doing very clever stuff with what you have. I hope you will do this for a long time. Have a nice whoever you are, wherever you are iving :)
Nice job. Not many people left that understand what being a machinist is, mostly because the jobs got sent overseas for cheap labor. Not that long ago any journeyman machinist demanded top dollar for his skills and a Die Maker was a machinist taken under the wing of another Die Maker as an apprentice. Not enough books in the world to teach all of the tricks a guy had to live it.
Bob Jimenez The jobs have been streamlined and idiot-proofed to maximize productivity and profit. I worked for a mold making company for 5 years and ran a CNC. Learned very little "psychology" which is key to being a great machinist and master craftsmen. Thankful for RUclips and the real machinists teaching me a thing or two.
Not to say this video isn't great, but people please go watch his other videos. There is no reason this should be his most popular. Watch the new ones. They're WAAAAY better. Oh, and keep it up Tony. New Subscriber, but I've been watching your stuff a lot lately. Great job.
lei ningbo Well if you do a lot of drilling in thick stock, this is a life-saver. These holes are great for welding pieces together, as you can weld into the hole to next piece, then fill hole with weld. Imagine sharpening all the bits from pilot to finish just for one hole, then multiple holes. Now he can make diff. diameter punches, for varying holes as required. Saves a fortune in drill bits.
can't believe I just watched a half an hour of making a die and punch in retro or perspective.... But, yes !. It's amazing to just watch the begginings of this professor in machinig and in what he has become. As allways, a pleasure !.
use old pantyhose between punch and die when lining them up. Automatically sets clearance the same all the way around punch. Also a little oil on punch and top of die before using helps part come off punch and die will last longer before needing sharpened. die clearance goes up as thickness of material to punch goes up.
And also material type, Mild steel gets 10% of material thickness while aluminum gets 13% material thickness plus the diameter of the punch. All materials are different, so experimenting with a load cell is important.
Proper die-clearance is a necessity. Just look at the slug to check this. There should only be one fractureline on it. This fractureline tells you if your clearance is correct. On mildsteel the sheared (shiny) part should be about a third of the materialthickness. The harder the material, the shorter this gets. Furthermore, you could modify the punchbody to make it perform better in these thicker materials. A little backtaper on the punch aids in stripping and reduces the material build-up on the side of the punch. Great video, I'm new here and am going to subscribe now. Bye!
Hi TOT have been watching your vids for awhile and have been catching up on the older ones. Enjoying it all and picking up heaps. Thanks for your time. Will Australia
My father and his etc were toolmakers, I broke the mold and went a different way, but had the slight advantage of growing up as a child in the Malone Instrument Company which made marine depth gauges. Now here I am, a retired firefighter and guess what - wishing I had followed the family tradition. Seeing your videos gives me objective learning which I try in my home workshop to emulate. One thing my father did teach me was running a temper and different steels. I have the bug but insufficient knowledge but I'm working on it. So thanks Tony for the effort you put in to these videos. PS can we swop Lathes?
Hey ToT I'm from even further in the future, and I must say I'm impressed. Not only are you the Supreme Leader, but everyone knows their way around shop tools as well. Thanks!
I would suggest you incorporate some "shear" on the punch face. This will reduce tool & press shock on breakthrough & reduce the tonnage required. Where minimum punch guidance only is provided (as here) the shear might be in the range 2.5 to 5 degrees from edge to centre - so that the two proud punch edges engage first & together - hope that's clear. Also your die retention with roll pins looks inadequate, & I think two diametrically opposed set screws locating into a shallow groove on the outer die diameter would be easier & superior.
If you put a point on the punch tip, that can serve two functions, help get you aligned with a center punch mark you made during layout and kinda serves to start a deformation of the would be slug before the cutting/punching action starts... unless you have plans for the knock-out slugs to be a bit flatter and not having a dented point in the middle of each... nice work, like always...
Tony, first of all I love watching your videos. As to how to retain your die in the block I find that grinding a 10 degree notch on the OD of the die and putting a grub screw in the center of the die block at a height that will pick up the tapered notch is the easiest way to go about this. Most none cnc type punching and shearing machines use this method. At huge diameters and workpiece thicknesses this changes to more robust methods of retaining the die due to large stripping loads. Anything you can do with your shop press will be fine with this method. Good on you Tony - keep up the good work!
I used to make low tech decorative stamps for silver jewelry out of mostly drill rod. To harden I used a small magnet on a wire and heated the punch just to the temp that magnet wouldn't stick, then water quenched. To temper I heated from top until straw reached the business end, so top was softer for hammer blow. Crude but for stamping sterling they held up very well.
@@jishnugopakumar Some quick math suggests inches. Here are calculations for the same size hole in millimeters and inches: 15mm x 9mm x 80 = 10,800 0.591in x 0.375in x 80 = 17.73 The inch calculation results in a number that's not too far off from This Old Tony's measured result, and errs somewhat on the side of more tonnage. The metric calculation results in a number that doesn't work out directly as tonnage. If you assume it's kilograms, and do the conversion from metric tons to US tons, you'll end up with a value that's further off and errs on the side of insufficient tonnage. If you really wanted to use metric, it looks like the following formula should result in very similar values: diameter in mm X thickness in mm X 0.12 = metric tonnage If you need the result in US tons, you can either multiply the result of the previous formula by 1.1 to convert to US tons, or use this alternate formula: diameter in mm X thickness in mm X 0.132 = US tonnage DISCLAIMER: These formulae were designed by modifying Steve Ibbert's formula to account for metric measurements. While they should get you in the ballpark, they weren't copied from any official sources.
Hey thisoldtony. I've been a fan for many years. Quite entertaining going back to these old videos and seeing where you came from. Lol. So awesome. Keep the content and the laughs coming. Love your channel.
Wow, your editing skills have come a long way. I always assumed you had some sort of professional background in video production, in addition to tool making.
Awesome project, awesome workshop too! Perhaps the first and only video of its kind on the web. I did that project at home 3-4 years back and the first slug you punch out is most definitely a real rush! Congratulations on your success.
I'm sitting here watching, thinking to myself "This guy's skills rival 'this old Tony's, it's amazing" then I listen to his voice more carefully, and it dawns on me to check the poster...sure enough! lol I guess this was before he installed his humor module...which actually adds layers of his brilliance to the situation! Thanks for making and posting this!
Most fab shops have three different dies per punch, for differing thicknesses of material. The punches are tapered, too. Great videos, thanks for sharing.
While I enjoy all of your content...quit hypnotizing me with your lathe. I can't explain how much fun it is to watch a chunk of metal magically transformed into something useful. Thank you
Great unplanned video. I seriously doubt I could even do a video but your punch and die are great. Many times I wish I had simular tools, instead of drilling holes. Got a thumbs up from me !!!
Indeed. Perhaps Tr*mp could scribble another EO deporting such enlightened people ... for their own good. Making America great again, an inch at a time.
You do know that all of us use both, right? I get so tired of people bringing this up all the time. Kids who never make or measure anything acting smug about units they don't even use. Unit conversions are easy to do with computers. We'll switch over eventually, but America is harder to switch because we have a lot of tooling, building code, and general infrastructure in place. It is a hell of a lot easier to change units for a 3rd world country with no infrastructure.
John m, metric is easier for people who need 10 fingers to count with. That is the metric claim to fame, it's a little easier for math challenged people. Kind of like saying coloring books are easier than oil painting, so coloring books are better.
Great work as usual from Tony, would love to know how the top punch and bottom die are kept in alignment, since even off a small amount, could drive the punch into top of the bottom die.
HI There, Some very sound practice good to see people trying !. Few words of friendly advice, try using same material for punch and die, Silver steel is ok but not a high tensile strength compared to tool would be better to have punch as tool steel die as silver. Your spring needs to be a proper die spring, you won't/shouldn't be able to compress by hand normally colour coded and very tight coils. Modular construction of punch is ok as it reduces stressed areas but to be fair if you are only using it 100 times in your life then don't worry ! With your heat treatment try using old motor oil as the absorption of carbon into the steel can help and also keep the parts at a good red heat for at least 5 mins. longer for large parts. tighter tolerances between the punch and die can help reduce force, remember smaller the area the smaller the force. Nice to see people having a go keep it up !, hopefully i will post some videos of my own when im not too busy machining !
Going to be the third or fourth person to ask this it seems, but: What happened to the shop press build video? (I don’t remember there being music for which you might have got a copyright hit, although I actually do have a sneaking suspicion as to why you might have removed it. I hope it - and the drill press video, and any others you might have taken down - can be given a second life. They were useful!).
Thanks for making the videos .I made a punch for my hydrologic press for punching 5 mm holes . I used a 4x4 leaf spring very hard metal . Sharpened up a mason drill to drill the holes worked fine with oil as coolant . no need to temper it . For the punch I cut off an old drill bit . Worked grate . Maybe you could try spring steel next time . You can buy a green stone on eBay for sharpening tungsten
Regular punches for use in a Buffalo or other punch machine, will normally have a centering tit on the punch. This allows you to do your layout for the holes, and center punch them for easy indexing when punching holes. Also, the phrase, 'squaring the hole' is meant to help remember how small a hole you can punch in any given material. So, for most things, since the most common material being used for fabrication is plain steel, you would not use a punch any smaller than the thickness of the material being worked. Other materials such as SS will have a different requirement for thickness to punch diameter ratio. This is a very important thing to remember, as anyone who has ever had a punch shear off can tell you. Also, putting a drop of oil on the spot to punch is helpful in the shear and in stripping the punch from the work.
I was desperate for a new TOT video so I went back to the beginnings... prior to Tony coming into his groove, but you got it down now! I don't even need a punch and die, but now I want to make one!
I was a Tool and Die maker for 25 years. Anything like this you can pull off at home, More Power to You. I didn't catch what kind of steel you are using. Doesn't this kind of work seem to take forever. When you are not getting paid. Ha Good work
Impressive, especially at 17 degrees. I'm bi machinist but I noticed my machine shops punch machine last time we used me. His punches all have a center point on them so you can align the punch with the punch mark in your material.
It always get me when I don't see the drill turning. I'm just so used to seeing the drill bit spin around and not the other way around. I would love to get me a lathe.
If you overheat the ferrite metal (BCC grouping of iron with limited carbon) while it is in an unstable form of martensite during pretempering, the carbon in the austenite phase (FCC grouping of the iron and carbon atoms) can be leached out of the steel chemistry by the atmosphere. After pretempering, even if you temper the part properly, you will have a weaker stablized martensite phase because there will be less carbon in the chemistry. You can read a little bit about it on wiki. Im guessing that the torch phase of your heating overheated the part and spheroidized the metal. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering_(metallurgy)#Physical_processes
Great job Toni. You are an artist. Such a smart guy. The only issue I found to be improved is that a punch is made after the die is bored so that they could be matched.
If you used your time travel machine you could have sharpened that die with your surface grinder. Agree with oil comments, would really help tool life. Love your videos, was a tool makers apprentice many years ago, then got my engineering degree. You get an “A+”, love your old equipment. Cheers!
SirArghPirate Drilling and punching each have their place, punching is much faster than drilling however it can distort or bend the metal. You can't punch a hole that's smaller than the thickness of the metal as the punch may explode, ie 1/4" hole in 1/2" thick bar or plate.
Years ago I needed to have some parts blanked and I hired the work done from a company of Germans that made fineblanking dies. Well, I learned from them by examining their dies and I ended up making dies for some other things that I need blanking and I employed the fineblanking technique. Fineblanking dies are precision ground after being hardened with up to three levels of blanking and shaving of the part. I can't go into all the details this point but I must say one thing that fineblanking crates really nice parts. They're almost like you machine them and leave that fine finish on the edge of your part without actually putting them in the milling machine. This part today is O.K. but again with "fineblanking" techniques it would have had as fine an edge as milling.
You did notice this video was 9 years old and he's much better in 2023. This man is a Legend. I also agree with what you said. Those Germans work metal like no one else, they're amazing.
I love this channel. The videos are always informative to the point of educational, with comic relief. That said: You should never, ever put "DIY" in the title if the project involves a multi-thousand dollar tool like a lathe or a mill. It's not DIY if the budget demands you have a workshop big enough to house such equipment, and in a lot of cases the equipment itself cancels the DIY value.
Você é o melhor do mundo no que faz. Parabéns. Estou vivendo e aprendendo inglês nos EUA. Estou aprendendo muito com você. Eu sou mecânico de manutenção. Amo seus vídeos. You're the best in the world at what you do. Congratulations. I am living and learning English in the USA. I'm learning a lot from you. I'm a maintenance mechanic. I love your videos.
Great Video as ever, love the heat treating detail, and if I had all the time back I've spent looking for something I've just put down, I'd be about 10! All the best, cliff
I know I'm late to this party but: I think you should go with an adjustable "fixed" stripper. Something held to the die that will pull or rather hold you work/part off the punch. By "adjustable" I mean with spacers and longer or shorter bolts depending on the work. I work as an engineer in a "world class" (that's what they tell me anyways) forging facility. Although our work is warm forging (1400-2300 F°) and you are working with cold steel. We use spring strippers and fixed depending on the part we are making. Fixed is obviously more reliable as without catastrophic failure the part always comes off the punch. That being said we do mostly use spring because of the variation of parts we make. I just dont think its neccessary for what your'e doing. That's all, and thanks for these awesome vids.
Sorry, didn't get all of the comment on one post. This looks like a good build. And I hope that those who need to will take your opening safety comments to heart as these thing are very dangerous and choice in materials, welding ability, understanding of all the load and stress principles involved is necessary to have a press that will always be safe and not just be OK for the first 50 or so uses. Well done my friend!
I knew when you compressed that spring by hand that it wouldn't be up to snuff, ;-) Great tool ! I need to get off my lazy butt and build my press. Then I can steal, I mean borrow , your great punch idea, cheers, Joe
good work Tony I work in steel fabrication 40+ yrs .You should make your punches square faced but with a nipple like a centre punch ,so when you mark out workpiece and punch hole centre you can position it accurately under punch . also your die holder use a setscrew then you can interchange different size dies easily cheers
Hey mate, first off love your stuff. Really get the dry humour, actually cant get enough. I have just finished your last clip and went back to the beginning, origin story vibes if you will. I think this is the first video I've ever posted on, and what a good one to begin with. Watching how far you have come from punches and dies to cnc surface mapping(I didn't even know that was a thing). I guess I'm just saying i like what you're putting down. thanks bud. :)
That was pretty cool! Just a tid bit of info, The round dies for my Edwards Iron worker are made by Cleveland Tool Steel. You can get a punch and die set for around $28.00 up to 1 1/6" . If you could machine the holder for the P&D you'd be in as the sets last an extremely long time.But making it is always cool! I thought about doing this to my turret press as sometimes the Iron worker is restrictive on certain parts.
hardest part is probably keeping the dies perfectly aligned in the machine if you have a dedicated press for this stuff (where you can lock the cilinder in one place and have fitting pins on the base to center the bottom dies on ) you can make dies for louvres and flanging holes too as for the spring , think a valve spring from a truck engine should fit
Thanks for the Video, yea, I'm a little late, but I've been up all night and I feel a little punchy. On some of my sheet metal punches there is a point in the middle to aid in centering the punch on the hole, given most people layout and center punch where the holes will go. Great ideas for when I finally get my shop together!
Good job! I may want to make a punch and die set for small motor laminations. The material I have is 0.0135" thick but I may use as thin as 0.003 or 0.005. I will need to punch holes as large as 1.5" diameter as well as much smaller holes and slots. You've inspired me to try to make a tool for this! Cya on HSM.
Hey Tony, I'm from the future. I'm here to tell you that your video skills get way better! Thank you
Hi fellow time traveller he cannot know the future do not tell him anything more
Yes, we from the future need to obey the Temporal Prime Directive.
@@thebeststooge The Temporal Prime Directive is sooo passé... Just do like me and let people think you are a random schmuck on the internets.
He hearted me maby i can risk telling him he is going to be the inventor of the pocket sized time travel lathe
@@thebeststooge Wait, wasn't the prime directive not to talk about the prime directive. Can't really remember because all the temporal anomalies with this timeline..
I am very impressed! 3/8" mild steel! On a home heat treated punch and die set is awesome! Have been a Tool and Diemaker/Gagemaker/ Instrument Maker for 39 years.
I did my apprenticeship as a Tool/Diemaker in Germany.
My Dad is 92, he and his brother had a metal shop in the basement when I was a kid. I remember watching them with 2 big lathes, a milling machine, shop punch, electric hacksaws, torch etc. They were great machinists. They moved the shop before my teens, now I'm 62 and this was a trip down memory lane. Wish I had him teach me more, but I ended up an EE designing circuits.
When my son was a boy the kids had things they call "pogs." They were basically small round disk and they had some sort of game they played with them. I can't remember the game. So I had an Iron Worker machine and I was always punching out metal and my son would collect the disk, paint them and sell them at school as "metal pogs." His metal pogs were in high demand among the school kids and my son was rolling in the dough. This video brought back that good memory.
+floyd green The game was called............POG.
LOL "rolling in the dough".. :D But what is/was the POG?
you slam the Metal coin like pog called a "Slamer" onto a stack of cardboard pogs, what ever cardboard pog fliped over onto its Picture side you get for good not just for the game. A kid can take 70% of your pogs if he was good. The Metal Slamers you don't lose. The baned them at my school b/c kids get sad when they lose there pogs. Floyd's kid sounds like he was taking everyones pogs, So everyone wanted the cool personal bad ass Slammer that was crushing everone. Lossing your pogs in a game was like lossing money playing Cards.
bump
my dad made some aluminium pogs for me when i was a kid, also high in demand in my school, brings back some dope memories :)
In 2019 TOT grew so powerful that he doesn't need a press. He snaps his fingers instead.
Wait till 2022.
You guys are in for a treat. 😁
And threads making out of cats.
He just steal from future tony.
This old thanos
He's turned into Tony Norris lol
Yeah it really is great to see how much your videographer craft has improved, which is in stark contrast to the sleeve of that old sweater.
Wow. This is like finding a homemade porno your favorite actress made before she got famous.
Yes. It's not This Old Tony. It's This Young Tony.
thats exactly what i was thinking. thanks for putting words to my perversion.
Wtf is this “metaphor”?
Clicked on this video looking for a quick diy way to end my suffering but instead I formed a bond with this channel lasting a lifetime.
After this kind of heat treatment you should grind parts a little bit (around 0.8mm on diameter and 0.3mm on ends) because they are much harder inside than outside (that means you have to make larger diameter and grind parts to the right dimension after heat treatment). There should be also some clearance between punch and a die wich depends on a thicknes of a material you are punching. (Thicker material > bigger clearance because you dont need that much force to punch, but it cant be to big because material will bend around hole). Im a toolmaker in Poland and i did a lot of stuff like that mostly on wire EDM and honestly i like watching chanells like this one because you guys have something very important - passion and heart for the job so you are often doing very clever stuff with what you have. I hope you will do this for a long time. Have a nice whoever you are, wherever you are iving :)
Nice job. Not many people left that understand what being a machinist is, mostly because the jobs got sent overseas for cheap labor. Not that long ago any journeyman machinist demanded top dollar for his skills and a Die Maker was a machinist taken under the wing of another Die Maker as an apprentice. Not enough books in the world to teach all of the tricks a guy had to live it.
Bob Jimenez The jobs have been streamlined and idiot-proofed to maximize productivity and profit. I worked for a mold making company for 5 years and ran a CNC. Learned very little "psychology" which is key to being a great machinist and master craftsmen. Thankful for RUclips and the real machinists teaching me a thing or two.
Not to say this video isn't great, but people please go watch his other videos. There is no reason this should be his most popular. Watch the new ones. They're WAAAAY better. Oh, and keep it up Tony. New Subscriber, but I've been watching your stuff a lot lately. Great job.
Thanks Mark, welcome aboard!
Very impressed with your machining skills; thanks for the video
I feel like its because people are misunderstanding "punch & die"
so,what's that mean?
lei ningbo Well if you do a lot of drilling in thick stock, this is a life-saver. These holes are great for welding pieces together, as you can weld into the hole to next piece, then fill hole with weld. Imagine sharpening all the bits from pilot to finish just for one hole, then multiple holes. Now he can make diff. diameter punches, for varying holes as required. Saves a fortune in drill bits.
can't believe I just watched a half an hour of making a die and punch in retro or perspective....
But, yes !. It's amazing to just watch the begginings of this professor in machinig and in what he has become.
As allways, a pleasure !.
use old pantyhose between punch and die when lining them up. Automatically sets clearance the same all the way around punch. Also a little oil on punch and top of die before using helps part come off punch and die will last longer before needing sharpened. die clearance goes up as thickness of material to punch goes up.
And also material type, Mild steel gets 10% of material thickness while aluminum gets 13% material thickness plus the diameter of the punch. All materials are different, so experimenting with a load cell is important.
Old pantyhose? This is a family channel!
Proper die-clearance is a necessity. Just look at the slug to check this. There should only be one fractureline on it. This fractureline tells you if your clearance is correct. On mildsteel the sheared (shiny) part should be about a third of the materialthickness. The harder the material, the shorter this gets. Furthermore, you could modify the punchbody to make it perform better in these thicker materials. A little backtaper on the punch aids in stripping and reduces the material build-up on the side of the punch. Great video, I'm new here and am going to subscribe now. Bye!
I like your quiet, professional way. You say exactly what we need. You are a great worker Tony. Thank you.
It's awesome to see the progression in the quality of content being created. Be awesome to see in another 7 years
Hi TOT have been watching your vids for awhile and have been catching up on the older ones. Enjoying it all and picking up heaps. Thanks for your time.
Will
Australia
My father and his etc were toolmakers, I broke the mold and went a different way, but had the slight advantage of growing up as a child in the Malone Instrument Company which made marine depth gauges. Now here I am, a retired firefighter and guess what - wishing I had followed the family tradition.
Seeing your videos gives me objective learning which I try in my home workshop to emulate. One thing my father did teach me was running a temper and different steels. I have the bug but insufficient knowledge but I'm working on it. So thanks Tony for the effort you put in to these videos.
PS can we swop Lathes?
Hey ToT I'm from even further in the future, and I must say I'm impressed. Not only are you the Supreme Leader, but everyone knows their way around shop tools as well. Thanks!
I would suggest you incorporate some "shear" on the punch face.
This will reduce tool & press shock on breakthrough & reduce the tonnage required.
Where minimum punch guidance only is provided (as here) the shear might be in the range 2.5 to 5 degrees from edge to centre - so that the two proud punch edges engage first & together - hope that's clear.
Also your die retention with roll pins looks inadequate, & I think two diametrically opposed set screws locating into a shallow groove on the outer die diameter would be easier & superior.
Seven years of video making experience is really amazing to watch. Thanks for stickin with it T...👍
If you put a point on the punch tip, that can serve two functions, help get you aligned with a center punch mark you made during layout and kinda serves to start a deformation of the would be slug before the cutting/punching action starts... unless you have plans for the knock-out slugs to be a bit flatter and not having a dented point in the middle of each... nice work, like always...
So crazy to come back and watch when ToT was only a machinist and not a youtuber. Glad you kept it up!
shy tony lol don’t apologize. It’s odd watching this in 2019.
Not shy, he got more confident and comfortable doing videos. It's beautiful to see the progress :)
It's also odd watching this in 2020 lol
Tony, first of all I love watching your videos. As to how to retain your die in the block I find that grinding a 10 degree notch on the OD of the die and putting a grub screw in the center of the die block at a height that will pick up the tapered notch is the easiest way to go about this. Most none cnc type punching and shearing machines use this method. At huge diameters and workpiece thicknesses this changes to more robust methods of retaining the die due to large stripping loads. Anything you can do with your shop press will be fine with this method. Good on you Tony - keep up the good work!
The press sounds sad.
+SeanTheHOMIE xDD
+SeanTheHOMIE It's depressed.
+Strangely Jamesly That's hilareous!!
Well, it's under a great deal of pressure at work.
nice try
Hello Tony. I know My field of work very well and I enjoy watching someone who knows theirs. Very relaxing, thank You.
A little oil on the punch will help it strip and wear longer.
I used to make low tech decorative stamps for silver jewelry out of mostly drill rod. To harden I used a small magnet on a wire and heated the punch just to the temp that magnet wouldn't stick, then water quenched. To temper I heated from top until straw reached the business end, so top was softer for hammer blow. Crude but for stamping sterling they held up very well.
Just for your reference as an old tool maker the quick formula for tonnage in mild steel is Dia X Thickness X 80
Dia in mm or inches
@@jishnugopakumar Some quick math suggests inches. Here are calculations for the same size hole in millimeters and inches:
15mm x 9mm x 80 = 10,800
0.591in x 0.375in x 80 = 17.73
The inch calculation results in a number that's not too far off from This Old Tony's measured result, and errs somewhat on the side of more tonnage. The metric calculation results in a number that doesn't work out directly as tonnage. If you assume it's kilograms, and do the conversion from metric tons to US tons, you'll end up with a value that's further off and errs on the side of insufficient tonnage. If you really wanted to use metric, it looks like the following formula should result in very similar values:
diameter in mm X thickness in mm X 0.12 = metric tonnage
If you need the result in US tons, you can either multiply the result of the previous formula by 1.1 to convert to US tons, or use this alternate formula:
diameter in mm X thickness in mm X 0.132 = US tonnage
DISCLAIMER: These formulae were designed by modifying Steve Ibbert's formula to account for metric measurements. While they should get you in the ballpark, they weren't copied from any official sources.
Hey thisoldtony. I've been a fan for many years. Quite entertaining going back to these old videos and seeing where you came from. Lol. So awesome. Keep the content and the laughs coming. Love your channel.
Wow, your editing skills have come a long way. I always assumed you had some sort of professional background in video production, in addition to tool making.
Awesome project, awesome workshop too! Perhaps the first and only video of its kind on the web. I did that project at home 3-4 years back and the first slug you punch out is most definitely a real rush! Congratulations on your success.
two suggestions, loose the spring and go with stripping forks over the die. also, use a lube to help it slide back out. I do this every day
I'm sitting here watching, thinking to myself "This guy's skills rival 'this old Tony's, it's amazing" then I listen to his voice more carefully, and it dawns on me to check the poster...sure enough! lol I guess this was before he installed his humor module...which actually adds layers of his brilliance to the situation! Thanks for making and posting this!
Definitely not what I expected from a video called "Punch and die" that was recommended to me off of an MMA video
Watched this for old times sake....wow your channel has evolved....awesome'
Great video from a humble and very talented man! Respect!
Most fab shops have three different dies per punch, for differing thicknesses of material. The punches are tapered, too. Great videos, thanks for sharing.
Is there air in the lines? The hydraulics seem to have some squish to them.
While I enjoy all of your content...quit hypnotizing me with your lathe. I can't explain how much fun it is to watch a chunk of metal magically transformed into something useful. Thank you
Man, you sounded so depressed back then mate..... it's ok it will be ok in the future!!
Great unplanned video. I seriously doubt I could even do a video but your punch and die are great. Many times I wish I had simular tools, instead of drilling holes. Got a thumbs up from me !!!
Congratulations Tony on being American and using metric.
That deserves a double thumbs up all by itself! :)
Indeed. Perhaps Tr*mp could scribble another EO deporting such enlightened people ... for their own good.
Making America great again, an inch at a time.
You do know that all of us use both, right? I get so tired of people bringing this up all the time. Kids who never make or measure anything acting smug about units they don't even use. Unit conversions are easy to do with computers. We'll switch over eventually, but America is harder to switch because we have a lot of tooling, building code, and general infrastructure in place. It is a hell of a lot easier to change units for a 3rd world country with no infrastructure.
John m nope
And he is in Europe
John m, metric is easier for people who need 10 fingers to count with. That is the metric claim to fame, it's a little easier for math challenged people. Kind of like saying coloring books are easier than oil painting, so coloring books are better.
That turned out just fine! Fantastic job. Thanks for the video.
Great work as usual from Tony, would love to know how the top punch and bottom die are kept in alignment, since even off a small amount, could drive the punch into top of the bottom die.
HI There, Some very sound practice good to see people trying !. Few words of friendly advice, try using same material for punch and die, Silver steel is ok but not a high tensile strength compared to tool would be better to have punch as tool steel die as silver. Your spring needs to be a proper die spring, you won't/shouldn't be able to compress by hand normally colour coded and very tight coils. Modular construction of punch is ok as it reduces stressed areas but to be fair if you are only using it 100 times in your life then don't worry ! With your heat treatment try using old motor oil as the absorption of carbon into the steel can help and also keep the parts at a good red heat for at least 5 mins. longer for large parts.
tighter tolerances between the punch and die can help reduce force, remember smaller the area the smaller the force.
Nice to see people having a go keep it up !, hopefully i will post some videos of my own when im not too busy machining !
Going to be the third or fourth person to ask this it seems, but: What happened to the shop press build video? (I don’t remember there being music for which you might have got a copyright hit, although I actually do have a sneaking suspicion as to why you might have removed it. I hope it - and the drill press video, and any others you might have taken down - can be given a second life. They were useful!).
Agree 100%, I'd pay, and gladly sign a waiver or anything else tot wanted
Thanks for making the videos .I made a punch for my hydrologic press for punching 5 mm holes . I used a 4x4 leaf spring very hard metal . Sharpened up a mason drill to drill the holes worked fine with oil as coolant . no need to temper it . For the punch I cut off an old drill bit . Worked grate . Maybe you could try spring steel next time . You can buy a green stone on eBay for sharpening tungsten
Anyone watching this in 2018? Look how far you've come!
Damn man, were in 2019, creeping on 2020
Regular punches for use in a Buffalo or other punch machine, will normally have a centering tit on the punch. This allows you to do your layout for the holes, and center punch them for easy indexing when punching holes.
Also, the phrase, 'squaring the hole' is meant to help remember how small a hole you can punch in any given material. So, for most things, since the most common material being used for fabrication is plain steel, you would not use a punch any smaller than the thickness of the material being worked. Other materials such as SS will have a different requirement for thickness to punch diameter ratio. This is a very important thing to remember, as anyone who has ever had a punch shear off can tell you.
Also, putting a drop of oil on the spot to punch is helpful in the shear and in stripping the punch from the work.
The Bob Ross of metalworking
I love watching craftsmen create things,very satisfying,I could watch for hours,nice video and project Tony.
Helpful video - - long live craftsmanship :)
I was desperate for a new TOT video so I went back to the beginnings... prior to Tony coming into his groove, but you got it down now! I don't even need a punch and die, but now I want to make one!
Was there a press build previous to this video?
Very much cool - did not know one could realisticly punch through such thick material!
Thanks for the 'edumacashun'!
Amazing stuff for a novice like me. Thanks for the inspiration.
Glad you liked it Rick!
I was a Tool and Die maker for 25 years. Anything like this you can pull off at home, More Power to You. I didn't catch what kind of steel you are using. Doesn't this kind of work seem to take forever. When you are not getting paid.
Ha
Good work
Wow it could reach 3/8''! Very impressive!
Impressive, especially at 17 degrees. I'm bi machinist but I noticed my machine shops punch machine last time we used me. His punches all have a center point on them so you can align the punch with the punch mark in your material.
It always get me when I don't see the drill turning. I'm just so used to seeing the drill bit spin around and not the other way around. I would love to get me a lathe.
and if you ever get you a lathe...you'll be hooked forever. They are so fun!!
Love your work. Will agree that your productions have became a lot better. Here in 2020.
If you overheat the ferrite metal (BCC grouping of iron with limited carbon) while it is in an unstable form of martensite during pretempering, the carbon in the austenite phase (FCC grouping of the iron and carbon atoms) can be leached out of the steel chemistry by the atmosphere. After pretempering, even if you temper the part properly, you will have a weaker stablized martensite phase because there will be less carbon in the chemistry. You can read a little bit about it on wiki.
Im guessing that the torch phase of your heating overheated the part and spheroidized the metal.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempering_(metallurgy)#Physical_processes
nigga what does austin powers and martians gots to do with anything?
Great job Toni. You are an artist. Such a smart guy. The only issue I found to be improved is that a punch is made after the die is bored so that they could be matched.
This reminds of the story about the guy who didn't know if he was punched or bored.
Ohhh, it took me a year but I just got that one.
Nice, took me about 10 seconds
he was just eroded by some bright sparks! ... YES!
The clearest video I have ever seen in my life, clearly well done ...
where'd you get all that equipment ??
Very impressive. It is always pleasant to see a true craftsman at work.
Excelente amigo!!!
If you used your time travel machine you could have sharpened that die with your surface grinder. Agree with oil comments, would really help tool life. Love your videos, was a tool makers apprentice many years ago, then got my engineering degree. You get an “A+”, love your old equipment. Cheers!
Creepy, your press sounds just like my wife. Btw, what's the advantage of punching instead of drilling?
SirArghPirate Drilling and punching each have their place, punching is much faster than drilling however it can distort or bend the metal. You can't punch a hole that's smaller than the thickness of the metal as the punch may explode, ie 1/4" hole in 1/2" thick bar or plate.
First thing I thought of was my wife's squawking. Either I'm not as odd as I thought I was, ..or you're as odd as I am.
@@OwenSullivan03 I drill my wife about once a week
Years ago I needed to have some parts blanked and I hired the work done from a company of Germans that made fineblanking dies. Well, I learned from them by examining their dies and I ended up making dies for some other things that I need blanking and I employed the fineblanking technique. Fineblanking dies are precision ground after being hardened with up to three levels of blanking and shaving of the part. I can't go into all the details this point but I must say one thing that fineblanking crates really nice parts. They're almost like you machine them and leave that fine finish on the edge of your part without actually putting them in the milling machine. This part today is O.K. but again with "fineblanking" techniques it would have had as fine an edge as milling.
You did notice this video was 9 years old and he's much better in 2023. This man is a Legend. I also agree with what you said. Those Germans work metal like no one else, they're amazing.
This sounds like a job for,“Air file. “
I love this channel. The videos are always informative to the point of educational, with comic relief. That said: You should never, ever put "DIY" in the title if the project involves a multi-thousand dollar tool like a lathe or a mill. It's not DIY if the budget demands you have a workshop big enough to house such equipment, and in a lot of cases the equipment itself cancels the DIY value.
I'm accepting donations for the "This old tony fingernail transplant fund".
Você é o melhor do mundo no que faz. Parabéns. Estou vivendo e aprendendo inglês nos EUA. Estou aprendendo muito com você. Eu sou mecânico de manutenção. Amo seus vídeos.
You're the best in the world at what you do. Congratulations. I am living and learning English in the USA. I'm learning a lot from you. I'm a maintenance mechanic. I love your videos.
ToT then with 99% less shtick!
Great Video as ever, love the heat treating detail, and if I had all the time back I've spent looking for something I've just put down, I'd be about 10!
All the best,
cliff
Great stuff!
But when you speed up the video you really should cut out the audio. That resulting sound is very annoying :/
I think he leaves it in, but turned down to give a sense of the passage of time.
I know I'm late to this party but:
I think you should go with an adjustable "fixed" stripper. Something held to the die that will pull or rather hold you work/part off the punch. By "adjustable" I mean with spacers and longer or shorter bolts depending on the work. I work as an engineer in a "world class" (that's what they tell me anyways) forging facility. Although our work is warm forging (1400-2300 F°) and you are working with cold steel. We use spring strippers and fixed depending on the part we are making. Fixed is obviously more reliable as without catastrophic failure the part always comes off the punch. That being said we do mostly use spring because of the variation of parts we make. I just dont think its neccessary for what your'e doing.
That's all, and thanks for these awesome vids.
No fun jokes at all?
Between AVE, Cody's Lab, LPL, TOT, and TOH you guys have inspired me to share my experience in a (hopefully) entertaining way. Thank you!
LPL ? TOH ?
Humble beginnings TOT! I can see from this Old video that you already had the skills to get really good at making content. Great stuff man!
Diy is the coolest. I'm about to build an automated angle iron shear for under $1000 and later when business picks up I will improve and speed it up.
Sorry, didn't get all of the comment on one post. This looks like a good build. And I hope that those who need to will take your opening safety comments to heart as these thing are very dangerous and choice in materials, welding ability, understanding of all the load and stress principles involved is necessary to have a press that will always be safe and not just be OK for the first 50 or so uses. Well done my friend!
+Cavemannspace Thank you.
I knew when you compressed that spring by hand that it wouldn't be up to snuff, ;-) Great tool ! I need to get off my lazy butt and build my press. Then I can steal, I mean borrow , your great punch idea, cheers,
Joe
Its so cute to see you fumble around with words in your early vids. LOL your awesome.
good work Tony I work in steel fabrication 40+ yrs .You should make your punches square faced but with a nipple like a centre punch ,so when you mark out workpiece and punch hole centre you can position it accurately under punch .
also your die holder use a setscrew then you can interchange different size dies easily cheers
New ideas are very good for the industry and an accurate description
Machinists are truly a dying breed!!
Thanks for all the vids!
Hey mate, first off love your stuff. Really get the dry humour, actually cant get enough. I have just finished your last clip and went back to the beginning, origin story vibes if you will. I think this is the first video I've ever posted on, and what a good one to begin with. Watching how far you have come from punches and dies to cnc surface mapping(I didn't even know that was a thing). I guess I'm just saying i like what you're putting down. thanks bud. :)
Geez that's a hell of a way to make metal confetti. EXCELLENT
That was pretty cool! Just a tid bit of info, The round dies for my Edwards Iron worker are made by Cleveland Tool Steel. You can get a punch and die set for around $28.00 up to 1 1/6" . If you could machine the holder for the P&D you'd be in as the sets last an extremely long time.But making it is always cool! I thought about doing this to my turret press as sometimes the Iron worker is restrictive on certain parts.
hardest part is probably keeping the dies perfectly aligned in the machine
if you have a dedicated press for this stuff (where you can lock the cilinder in one place and have fitting pins on the base to center the bottom dies on ) you can make dies for louvres and flanging holes too
as for the spring , think a valve spring from a truck engine should fit
Thanks for the Video, yea, I'm a little late, but I've been up all night and I feel a little punchy. On some of my sheet metal punches there is a point in the middle to aid in centering the punch on the hole, given most people layout and center punch where the holes will go. Great ideas for when I finally get my shop together!
Great, instructive video on many fronts. You are a good, easy speaking instructor. Thank you :)
The difference between this video and his first two is incredible. Great work from the future.
Good job! I may want to make a punch and die set for small motor laminations. The material I have is 0.0135" thick but I may use as thin as 0.003 or 0.005. I will need to punch holes as large as 1.5" diameter as well as much smaller holes and slots. You've inspired me to try to make a tool for this! Cya on HSM.
Up to now this is one of the best video's of it's kind I have ever seen, really interesting.
I like how it has integrated alarms to alert you to when the press is being operated.