Oh boy you are such a bastard.... Square and oh so abrasive... With your rasp voice, packed teeth and tapered hair... A good lapping ought to polish you right up.... 😂😂🎉
Yep. Spot on. It was a real world then. My first files, most of the ones mentioned above, first passed through my hands exactly fifty years ago. Okay, I'm only a youngster, but it does take me back a bit. I love these old documentaries. Thanks for the journey in time.
@@n7346e We made the stuff that won the war. Other countries sent men to war, but we sent men with stuff to war. We sent more stuff per man to war than any other country.
For the first half of our first year in school metal shop all we did was file metal in a vice. Scribe a line, grab the right file, and file, file, file. Then draw file to a nice finish. Then emery cloth to a shine you could see your face in. Great memories.
@@alejandrovidal1607 I always thought you would build a hammer with a forge out of an Ingot like a black smith what did you have to file off of it? Or did you use like a big hunk of metal and cut into yourself?
In East-Germany, we had a school subject named "practical work", where the pupils went to actual places of work and were instructed in certain crafts. Since we had to go to a shipyard - which was an airplane factory in WW2 - we had to do a year of working in the so-called "file-bunker", where we had to deburr draft numbers for further welding. Long story short: our tools still showed the remnants of a German Eagle holding some kind of symbol, which was erased somehow. I like these old instructional videos.
@@tookitogo That's nice, I had to research a little before I put that phrase together - the main issue was if it was right to use 'deburr' in this context.
@ I would assume so. Once one realizes that you mean large numbers cast out of metal, deburring makes sense. (Amusingly, the English and German synonyms for deburring - “breaking edges” and “Kanten brechen”, respectively, mean the same things!)
I live in the UK and did my apprenticeship at the railway and have fond memories of filing like this, it's a shame the only thing we make now is coffee.
My Dad did his time at the BSA in Birmingham, he taught me so much. I have some of his old tools, in velvet lined boxes with his name on. The beauty of such precision is no longer appreciated.
@@angowTI used to work in a skip yard and you would not believe the amount of old tool collections that people had thrown out! My guess is either an old boy passed away or somebody had a divorce and lobbed a life time collection out.. With this in mind I hope you have a child in the family to pass the tools onto, it is true that tools aren't made anywhere near as good as they used to and nothing pained me more than seeing decent tooling being thrown into a scrap bin. We even had two second world war, Royal Navy medals and a couple photo albums at the yard! The photos I still have as it looked like the few missing must have been kept by the family, the medals we sent back to the Navy.
Sounds like my dad. "Stroke it, don't rub it - it's for cutting, not for starting a fire". Same with hand saws. "Long strokes, give _every_ tooth a chance to cut",
Grandpa was a machinist and showed me how to use files properly..now at 39 i own many and cherish using them in my projects and machine wrk.. my favorite it breaking an edge while at the lathe or mill.. or maybe cleaning up some burrs from a cut..
@@chrismaurer2075 Since schools no longer teach these skills it is up to those who did learn from such classes to pass on that knowledge to today's generation. If our country is in a "downfall" we have no one to blame but ourselves.
@@DonariaRegia Kid's aren't interested in doing this type of work even for a hobby. I've tried to get young people involved in working with hand tool's like making hand saws etc but no interest.
These videos are are absolute gold. I watched another just the other week on 'Metal Scraping'. True masters we had in this country when it came to manufacturing as well as other industries back then combined with clear concise narration. Look where we are now...even our Presidents can't put a sentence together like this narrator. And thats even when sending our sons (never theirs) to get their heads blown off in some sleazy under handed war
Loving on the vise at 4:54, this video is a great reminder even if you know somethings, you might not remember all things about filing in the machine shop. Always learning is a big reason I enjoy these vintage videos, thank you for providing them. Lance.
My Toolmaker Father told me to never use a steel wire brush to clean a file as the steel used can be harder than the file and blunt it. Rather use the end of a strip of brass to push across the teeth at the same angle as the teeth to push out the pinning. The file cuts lines into the brass edge that fit on to the teeth enabling you to push out the material caught in the teeth. Doing this is proper metal therapy.
I was also told not to use those file cards. Anyway, a piece of brass usually works better at getting out pieces of metal that really get stuck in the file.
I noticed the Charles parker vice in use. Got one in the workshop. This is a great engineering skill that once mastered, you don't forget. Great video.
my God....this takes me back to 1977-78 when I was an apprentice Fitter in Limerick, Ireland...First Year Off The Job training at Anco (then the State Training Agency), Dock Road, Limerick.....we had great instructors...
This video helped me understand that I needed to upgrade my filing system. Now, the information is well organized, easy to access, and, I can find it quickly. 🎉💖
We now know two things that weren't known when this video was made: 1) file cards are bad for your file - they dull the teeth. A piece of soft wood works just as well. 2) contrary to what your shop teacher told you, dragging the file on the return stroke will not harm the file. We know this thanks to a few folks right here on YT who did the careful research.
@tookitogo oil does the job intended, some are designed to be lubricants, and some are cutting agents(less of a lube and more of a coolant to maintain cool temps and not wear out the cutter,) filing, however, used to span the gap from hoging out material to a finishing step prior to finish, and if you have oil on the surface and in the pores of the metal it has to be cleaned before bluing and painting, this can be a royal pain to do if at every step of the filing process someone doused the work in oil
in Australia and UK system, the people who were not wanting academic work, left school age 16 to technical schools, girls left to go to nursing or secretarial training) 17 for machinists and higher skill (including draftsmen and technical illustrators) technical work, and the final year of high school was only for those who wanted to join public service or university.
Not entirely true, some high schools still have good metals programs, but filing has sadly become a rarity in these programs, one of the dying arts. The techniques are still taught in many art programs focusing on Fine Art Metals though.
@@AlexJohnson-s5u VERY few high schools have any shop programs at all, you're more likely to find it in a vocational school, but only those that involve metalworking, which are few.
Using files like they did in the early 1900s was hardcore. A lot of that skill is lost, but we wouldn’t have the quality of life we do now if we hadn’t moved away from it.
This is gold. In the early 1960s in New Zealand, although it was a bit sexist :-) for two years all the girls did cooking and sewing classes, and all the boys did woodwork and metalwork. I still have both the skills I learned, and some of the things I made.
Thankfully, by the late 70s in New England anyways, not sure about the southern red states, everyone took cooking, sewing, and wood shop in Jr High and all classes were open choice in High School including car shop and metal.
@@az55544 Hmm, that would be great. I can sew a patch on my jeans, but I sort of had to rely on general knowledge. I can still see to thread a needle :-)
@@tedecker3792 Good for her! It is interesting that to us at the time, it wasn't a matter of "Rules", any more than it was a Rule that pens were for writing, or food was for eating. I do recall they banned us from playing touch Rugby in the breaks, boys vs girls. We were indignant and felt it was unreasonablr.
I've always been fascinated by the file, I think it's the best tool after the hammer, I've been using it since I was 5-6 years old, today I'm 38 and for the first time someone explained to me how to actually use a file
Great video- but I'm surprised by the suggestion to apply oil. Unlike machine driven tools, files don't build up heat. Oil would cause more labor by making the teeth slip over the work and also cause a buildup of fine debris in the teeth. I sometimes use acetone or carburetor cleaner to insure the file is clean and DRY.
A perfect example of how hand operations are trivialized by managers in shops today. The importance of proper filing is ignored, as well as the skill to do so in the hurry to ship.
Now THAT is a lost (because it's niche) art. All this was common knowledge, in my experience. But I'm dutch, maybe that's why. All the commenters going on and on on how they finally learned something, and I'm just thinking, come on now, didn't you pay attention in shop class? We still have it in the Netherlands.
With Draw Filing you must. With a single cut file. Shown several times in the film and to us apprentices in a General Electric Training shop in the mid 1960s.
I feel like shaping with a file is more accurate than almost anything driven by an electric motor. There’s something about repetitive hand eye coordination. Like sculpture.
The world has changed, not for the better. I spent a lot of my youth hanging around "old timers" to figure out what they knew. Now I can't get a young person to listen to a half a minute in instruction. No one wants to learn to do anything. Only concern is the damn "smart phone". This film demonstrates why the country became great, now we are sliding down the road of trained monkeys with a lighted electronic banana in there hands.
What you describe is not my experience, in the Netherlands, however the world is a large place and I don't know your situation. But it sounds like your instructions come from a place of spite ("At least I tried to learn from old people", stress "I"), if the youngsters won't listen. I've plenty of great experiences transferring much more arcane knowledge than the simple use of files (cutting angle geometry, internal stresses, unrelated: chromatic abberation, CCD Elektrodynamics, you name it) - this film was just way too slow and far from information-dense. I learned nothing I didn't already know from secondary school. 12 minutes of trivial (literally, learned at secondary school) material, unclear pointing and vague terms like "bastard", saying "perpendicular" and not seeing anything close to perpendicular, really nothing specific. Kids these days are perfectly capable of absorbing way more, way more technical and precise information than this introductory bore of a "can-you-get-to-a-clear-point-already" film. They'd love to hear what amount of teeth per centimeters are useful for how much material removal in volume per stroke distance, know about what range of cutting angles are acceptable (instead of the not-so-perpendicular demonstration, utterly confusing), wonder about how metal can cut metal, learn about modern metallurgy and hardening. And ones that drift away during such theoreticals are perhaps better off being asked what they like to do, then you offer them a related metal project for them to work on (if they like music, perhaps a one-piece metal xylophone, or if they like computer gaming, a metal case for their PC - get creative) and hand them a selection of files. Then let them experience directly what every file does. Thén talk theory. Every kid learns differently; don't push for the idea that they should all be jumping in excitement from this video.
@ thanks for reminding me. I don't file much, but I just added one to my Amazon shopping cart. Hopefully it turns out well. Amazing I had never heard of these until I saw the video
I started work in a cnc shop about 5 weeks ago. I asked a 70 year old who had been there for 25 years if they stocked file cards in the tool room so I could clean a clogged file provided me. He asked, "What's a file card?"
@@bigoldgrizzly The 1" brass cube I made as an apprentice in 1956 is sitting on my bench, I checked it the other day and it is square on all surface and spot on 1" whichever way you measure it. Not bad for only using a hacksaw and scribing block and the appropriate files.
@@bigoldgrizzly Ah, well, the reason we had to make one was to make a 4" square, 1" thick steel female for the brass cube to fit into. Marks were deducted for any gaps and measurements over 0.0001" - and same for any out of square where the examiner could poke feeler gauges through while holding a lab-grade square against it and also for finish - everything had to be mirror-like shiny. Oh, nearly forgot - it all had to be done in under a certain time, any minutes over that were marks off too!
the trade test in the 50s was to produce a 3 3/4 inch square x7/8 block of steel out of 4x1inch with a 7/8 hole in the centre. also, to make a 1x1 inch square out of a piece of 2 inch round bar. this was done using a scriber ,rule, hammer, chisel and file. Points were deducted for poor dimensions, poor finish.
Don't listen to at least one part of this. That is on the names of files. The bastard cut is the most coarse for any particular size of file. By that, I mean that a 12 in. bastard cut is more coarse than a 6 in. bastard cut.
An actual, scientific, test of file pressure showed that the "rule" of only applying pressure on the "cutting stroke" is incorrect, and the file will cut faster with pressure on both front and back strokes.
3:17 Imagine cutting that block with a hack saw, soft steel or not, I don't care if that's aluminum, it seems like it would take forever to get through
steverlord Power Hacksaw was universal in WW2. Use good quality HSS blades in a good frame and using good practiced technique - - you'd be surprised how fast a handheld hacksaw can cut. That piece in the film would be too big for a regular 12" blade. Hard to get a proper full stroke. However say a one inch square piece can usually be cut in a minute or so. Invest in quality blades and buy from a trade source.
After two years of bench work getting my gunsmithing certification I would use a hacksaw anytime I only needed one piece of stock it’s only worth setting up the bandsaw if you need multiple pieces
I made this movie in 1942 and the worst part was Albert Shillendorfmanscither using the files in an inappropriate manner. They took him out back, and he got the strap. He came back in ready to be a workman. None wore a workman's hat.
@@jeremydoblinger3609 they may be but they do not sell that brand around by me here. So I would have to order them. Which is not at easy as just picking one up in a store is. I was going to order some Vallorbe files but it would have cost $28 to ship two needle files to me. That's just the shipping costs. So each file would have ended up costing me $27.40 a piece. I thought that was a bit steep.
What are you talking about, almost every file you find anywhere will do just fine. Just pick the profile you want instead of too fine or too rough and you're good to go, unless you're quick to blame the tool. It takes practise. "Good" ones (read: unnecessarily premium finish ones/ hand stiched) just cost more money, also not hard to find.
@@zbnmth I'm talking about files for sharpening saw teeth, if you must know. When you get down into the finer tooth pitches what files you use becomes extremely critical. Then you want needle files. Which are difficult to come by and expensive when you do. They're special order items and shipping is exorbitant. If I could just walk in somewhere and pick them up for their purchase price we wouldn't be having this conversation. Alas that is not the case. It'd cost me over $40 just to have one tiny file in my hot little hands. Specifically a Vallorbe 100mm second cut three square needle file. But now you know what you can get me for Christmas.
This film must have been made using a actor. Every time he is shown draw filing, he held the file incorrectly. The pressure he has to apply to get the file to cut will bend the file and produce a curved surface. One should push the file down with your two index fingers over the job, and only use your thumbs and other fingers to guide the file back and forth. When he filed a flat on the ring, you could see him rocking the file slightly. The film did not show an important process - filing a curved surface. This is done by continuously rotatng the file such that the point of contact moves backwards during the cutting stroke. Never by following the desired curve.
Nonsense. Files are fully hardened and do NOT bend. The filing technique used is standard procedure. The technique you suggest is a variation which is also used.
@@rogerfreeman4362 You have never used a file then. They certainly do bend. The stiffness of steel is measured as Young's Modulus. Youngs Modulus is only 5 % or so greater for hardened steels than it is for mild steel. Look it up. Mild steels are around 200 GPa, hardened are up to 210 GPa . In any case, files are only case hardened, as hard steel is brittle. When I did my trade training, the usual method technical school instructors used was to give you an off-cut of structural steel and tell you to hand-file it down to a rectangle precisely square on all sides and to specified dimensions. They chose the starting size and final specified size such that it would take you a full day to do it. At the end of the day, your muscles would be totally stuffed unless you held and used the file correctly, and you'd never achieve a flat surface if ýou held the file the way the actor did in this video. Anyone can try this experiment: Place a file without a handle cross-wise on a steel rule (they are usually 1 mm thick) on a solid rigid surface and press down on both ends of the file. You won't have any difficulty making both ends of the file touch the rigid surface.
One. Taking care to keep the file flat in both planes, draw it towards you. Relieve the pressure and return to the start position reapply some light pressure and perform the second stroke. What was NOT mentioned here but is very useful in finishing work is SPOT-FILING. This is used to relieve high spots in the same way as Scraping but when it is desired to remove more metal. Spot filing would be completed before moving on to scraping. In spot filing you will place a couple of fingers on the far end of the file. Then apply that end of the file to the high spot (usually indicated by prussian blue HiSpot compound after trial on a known very flat surface). Then use light short strokes (again just using light pressure on the forward stroke and none on the inbound or return stroke). Each high spot will be filed down in turn. Don't try to file several at once. Try this technique - it will produce excellent flat surfaces good enough say for some cylinder heads. (GE apprentice 1966)
If the video is instructional and has that static-y popping noise, its going to be absolutely gold information.
Oh boy you are such a bastard.... Square and oh so abrasive... With your rasp voice, packed teeth and tapered hair... A good lapping ought to polish you right up.... 😂😂🎉
Yea, Americans used to make stuff. 😢
Yep. Spot on. It was a real world then. My first files, most of the ones mentioned above, first passed through my hands exactly fifty years ago.
Okay, I'm only a youngster, but it does take me back a bit. I love these old documentaries.
Thanks for the journey in time.
@@n7346e We made the stuff that won the war. Other countries sent men to war, but we sent men with stuff to war. We sent more stuff per man to war than any other country.
Absolutely! You should see the one about correct use of the apostrophe, it's gold.
For the first half of our first year in school metal shop all we did was file metal in a vice. Scribe a line, grab the right file, and file, file, file. Then draw file to a nice finish. Then emery cloth to a shine you could see your face in. Great memories.
did you really use chalk in the fine draw files like in the tutorial? I've never seen emery cloth in use...!
yep, here in argentina it was the same. 6 months for making a hammer, file and file and kepp filing. i still have the hammer i made 33 yrs ago!! 😁
Mine was , well I graduated in 1969 so I probably actually saw this. But it's how I learned.
Me too. And my school was St John Fisher.
@@alejandrovidal1607 I always thought you would build a hammer with a forge out of an Ingot like a black smith what did you have to file off of it? Or did you use like a big hunk of metal and cut into yourself?
Well I never knew 90% of that!!!! Now I will look at my files in a totally different light! Thanks for the video!
An every one shop tool that no ones really understand. Good tutorial, tks for sharing this on YT.
I'm not a metal worker, but I found this video fascinating. Thanks.
now you are prepared to become one.
"File" this under, Seriously valuable esoteric Information from the past!
In East-Germany, we had a school subject named "practical work", where the pupils went to actual places of work and were instructed in certain crafts. Since we had to go to a shipyard - which was an airplane factory in WW2 - we had to do a year of working in the so-called "file-bunker", where we had to deburr draft numbers for further welding.
Long story short: our tools still showed the remnants of a German Eagle holding some kind of symbol, which was erased somehow.
I like these old instructional videos.
Sorry, you had to deburr _what?_ I’m assuming “draft numbers” is some mistranslation. What’s the German word? (Ich spreche fliessend deutsch. :) )
@@tookitogo
Tiefgangszahlen musste ich entgraten.
@@11Kralle Ohhhhh, sorry, that makes sense. Your translation was correct all along!
@@tookitogo
That's nice, I had to research a little before I put that phrase together - the main issue was if it was right to use 'deburr' in this context.
@ I would assume so. Once one realizes that you mean large numbers cast out of metal, deburring makes sense. (Amusingly, the English and German synonyms for deburring - “breaking edges” and “Kanten brechen”, respectively, mean the same things!)
I live in the UK and did my apprenticeship at the railway and have fond memories of filing like this, it's a shame the only thing we make now is coffee.
Omg 🙄😫
Luckily I still work in manufacturing, in the UK, but I agree, the UK is going down the toilet with regards to industry.
My Dad did his time at the BSA in Birmingham, he taught me so much. I have some of his old tools, in velvet lined boxes with his name on. The beauty of such precision is no longer appreciated.
@@angowTI used to work in a skip yard and you would not believe the amount of old tool collections that people had thrown out!
My guess is either an old boy passed away or somebody had a divorce and lobbed a life time collection out..
With this in mind I hope you have a child in the family to pass the tools onto, it is true that tools aren't made anywhere near as good as they used to and nothing pained me more than seeing decent tooling being thrown into a scrap bin.
We even had two second world war, Royal Navy medals and a couple photo albums at the yard!
The photos I still have as it looked like the few missing must have been kept by the family, the medals we sent back to the Navy.
My grandfather always told me, "I paid for both ends of the file, not just the middle". Now I get to say the same thing.
Good one!
Sounds like my dad. "Stroke it, don't rub it - it's for cutting, not for starting a fire". Same with hand saws. "Long strokes, give _every_ tooth a chance to cut",
...mine said that about the hacksaw..
Mine was “hit the damn nail in, don’t try to scare it in!” 😂
@@jenngill7772😂 thats a good one.
This Films are Gold. Thank you!
This film upload is pure silver! (I'd say gold, but the film lacks color).
I love old tools, the vise at 5 minutes is a beauty!
Looks like a Wilton Shop King.
I love these old films. Thanks for posting.
Grandpa was a machinist and showed me how to use files properly..now at 39 i own many and cherish using them in my projects and machine wrk.. my favorite it breaking an edge while at the lathe or mill.. or maybe cleaning up some burrs from a cut..
We need more videos like this. This is a great stuff.
These old machine shop training videos are the best ! If you want to learn something new study the old, its amazing
I was never taught how to properly use files. I really appreaciate you sharing this video.
Wood and metal shop used to be taught in school it's a shame practical, useful life skills aren't taught anymore.
@@Jims2517 Just one of the many thing's that have changed that is responsible for the downfall of our country.
@@chrismaurer2075 Since schools no longer teach these skills it is up to those who did learn from such classes to pass on that knowledge to today's generation. If our country is in a "downfall" we have no one to blame but ourselves.
@@DonariaRegia Kid's aren't interested in doing this type of work even for a hobby. I've tried to get young people involved in working with hand tool's like making hand saws etc but no interest.
Wipe flip wipe flip for you simple guys like him
Blast from the past! Did my fair share of filing during my aprenticeship in the 80s!
These videos are are absolute gold. I watched another just the other week on 'Metal Scraping'. True masters we had in this country when it came to manufacturing as well as other industries back then combined with clear concise narration. Look where we are now...even our Presidents can't put a sentence together like this narrator. And thats even when sending our sons (never theirs) to get their heads blown off in some sleazy under handed war
Was it colonel Smedley Butler who wrote book: "War is a Racket" ?
I forgot we had a president. Bring back American manufacturing - I'm so sick of "Made in China".
I couldn't agree more. God bless.
@@jensdavidsen4557 it's exactly the same in the UK too. Greedy executives sent our manufacturing abroad and the politicians were complicit in it.
You think inflation is bad now. Wait until we stop importing from other companies.@@jensdavidsen4557
files are underappreciated tools
Not for people who use them.
Yeah, and mistreated too. 😖
Maybe for some people. I use them daily.
Information from start to finish!
You can make anything with a file ....... except a profit
Loving on the vise at 4:54, this video is a great reminder even if you know somethings, you might not remember all things about filing in the machine shop. Always learning is a big reason I enjoy these vintage videos, thank you for providing them. Lance.
My Toolmaker Father told me to never use a steel wire brush to clean a file as the steel used can be harder than the file and blunt it.
Rather use the end of a strip of brass to push across the teeth at the same angle as the teeth to push out the pinning. The file cuts lines into the brass edge that fit on to the teeth enabling you to push out the material caught in the teeth. Doing this is proper metal therapy.
Although I was taught to use a card, I'm inclined to agree with you. I started out in tool making in the mid seventies.
The file cards at work have brass bristles. I thought that was the norm for them.
@@markgregory5962 I’m going to have to say…
If a steel wire is harder than a file, you need to stop buying your files at the Dollar Tree.
I was also told not to use those file cards. Anyway, a piece of brass usually works better at getting out pieces of metal that really get stuck in the file.
I noticed the Charles parker vice in use.
Got one in the workshop.
This is a great engineering skill that once mastered, you don't forget.
Great video.
Thank you sincerely. This is Heritage of humanity ,
You all can not imagine how I miss these master in this country where I am.
I love filing the bevels into my hand forged knives it is very relaxing for me.
Word. When you get it nice and flat you can just feel it in the file as you go. (Chef kiss)
my God....this takes me back to 1977-78 when I was an apprentice Fitter in Limerick, Ireland...First Year Off The Job training at Anco (then the State Training Agency), Dock Road, Limerick.....we had great instructors...
This is glorious ❤
This video helped me understand that I needed to upgrade my filing system. Now, the information is well organized, easy to access, and, I can find it quickly. 🎉💖
AI replies are wild sometimes
Great video. Anyone just getting into metal work should be watching this.
Very instructional and clear video - thanks for sharing!
We now know two things that weren't known when this video was made:
1) file cards are bad for your file - they dull the teeth. A piece of soft wood works just as well.
2) contrary to what your shop teacher told you, dragging the file on the return stroke will not harm the file.
We know this thanks to a few folks right here on YT who did the careful research.
These videos are gold
This was informative and made me very glad that we have so many different options for reshaping metal nowadays.
I was taught to use chalk, Chalk won't contaminate the surface like oil will.
Yes. We were taught to chalk a file, especially if filing soft metal,like aluminium, to stop it clogging the file.
Yes, I was also taught to use chalk, especially on aluminum.
How does oil contaminate the surface? Or rather, why is oil OK for milling and drilling, but not for filing? (Just curious. I’m not a machinist.)
@tookitogo oil does the job intended, some are designed to be lubricants, and some are cutting agents(less of a lube and more of a coolant to maintain cool temps and not wear out the cutter,) filing, however, used to span the gap from hoging out material to a finishing step prior to finish, and if you have oil on the surface and in the pores of the metal it has to be cleaned before bluing and painting, this can be a royal pain to do if at every step of the filing process someone doused the work in oil
@@cmasailor OK, so it’s just an issue of the amount of “decontamination” required before bluing or painting. Thanks!
It used to be, you would learn this in shop class. But they've taken all the shop classes out of schools, so nobody knows this stuff any more.
in Australia and UK system, the people who were not wanting academic work, left school age 16 to technical schools, girls left to go to nursing or secretarial training) 17 for machinists and higher skill (including draftsmen and technical illustrators) technical work, and the final year of high school was only for those who wanted to join public service or university.
All bloody computers and mobile phones.
Not entirely true, some high schools still have good metals programs, but filing has sadly become a rarity in these programs, one of the dying arts. The techniques are still taught in many art programs focusing on Fine Art Metals though.
@@AlexJohnson-s5u VERY few high schools have any shop programs at all, you're more likely to find it in a vocational school, but only those that involve metalworking, which are few.
Where you live I guess
Using files like they did in the early 1900s was hardcore. A lot of that skill is lost, but we wouldn’t have the quality of life we do now if we hadn’t moved away from it.
As an NCB apprentice we spent weeks filing a block of steel to accurate diminsions at SHERWOOD TRAINING CENTRE AT MANSFIELD WOODHOUSE
Make this cube a sphere. With only files and a square. 😊👍
This is gold. In the early 1960s in New Zealand, although it was a bit sexist :-) for two years all the girls did cooking and sewing classes, and all the boys did woodwork and metalwork. I still have both the skills I learned, and some of the things I made.
Thankfully, by the late 70s in New England anyways, not sure about the southern red states, everyone took cooking, sewing, and wood shop in Jr High and all classes were open choice in High School including car shop and metal.
@@az55544 Hmm, that would be great. I can sew a patch on my jeans, but I sort of had to rely on general knowledge. I can still see to thread a needle :-)
My mother was a teacher who got the rules changed so both boys and girls could choose which class they wanted to take.
@@tedecker3792 Good for her! It is interesting that to us at the time, it wasn't a matter of "Rules", any more than it was a Rule that pens were for writing, or food was for eating.
I do recall they banned us from playing touch Rugby in the breaks, boys vs girls. We were indignant and felt it was unreasonablr.
Great video A/V Geeks 16mm Films! 🔥 Thank you! 💯
Great upload thanks
We should pull our boys out of school and make them watch these vids all day.
I've always been fascinated by the file, I think it's the best tool after the hammer, I've been using it since I was 5-6 years old, today I'm 38 and for the first time someone explained to me how to actually use a file
Great video- but I'm surprised by the suggestion to apply oil. Unlike machine driven tools, files don't build up heat. Oil would cause more labor by making the teeth slip over the work and also cause a buildup of fine debris in the teeth. I sometimes use acetone or carburetor cleaner to insure the file is clean and DRY.
As a note: the steel mill makes “hot rolled steel” which is the least expensive kind. “Cold rolled steel” is more expensive.
I never knew we needed a video for filling😂❤
Really informative, great upload❤
A perfect example of how hand operations are trivialized by managers in shops today.
The importance of proper filing is ignored, as well as the skill to do so in the hurry to ship.
Thank you so much for this.
Never allow the working face of a file to get knocked about and prevent rust by oiling your files. Rust dulls the cutting edge of the teeth.
Right. You can protect them if stored in a drawer so they don't strike against each other.
Also wrap in a twist of VPI paper.
I would love to see a clip or two on restoring the kitchen knifes edge.
I used to do a lot of that, but now a machine can do an even better job in far less time.🤯
Huh. I actually learned a lot. That was unexpected 👍🏻
Should have covered burnishing files for the smoothest surface and work hardening in the process.
Now THAT is a lost (because it's niche) art. All this was common knowledge, in my experience. But I'm dutch, maybe that's why. All the commenters going on and on on how they finally learned something, and I'm just thinking, come on now, didn't you pay attention in shop class? We still have it in the Netherlands.
I've always wanted left handed files!
We don’t even make quality vises like the one in this video 😢.
Wartime stories-I like.
Never drag a file sideways somebody once told me.
One teacher in life is never enough
With Draw Filing you must. With a single cut file. Shown several times in the film and to us apprentices in a General Electric Training shop in the mid 1960s.
I feel like shaping with a file is more accurate than almost anything driven by an electric motor. There’s something about repetitive hand eye coordination. Like sculpture.
Que material fantástico
Would be nice if they had shown how to work the surface flat and square. Just checking for flat and squareness usually doesn't help so much.
Stance is wrong, you'll damage the elbows like this. Power comes from the legs when removing a lot of material. Maybe in later, finer stages.
The world has changed, not for the better. I spent a lot of my youth hanging around "old timers" to figure out what they knew. Now I can't get a young person to listen to a half a minute in instruction. No one wants to learn to do anything. Only concern is the damn "smart phone". This film demonstrates why the country became great, now we are sliding down the road of trained monkeys with a lighted electronic banana in there hands.
I just learned The Fundamentals of Filing from my electronic banana. I bet your choice of file is the bastard cut. You know nothing John Snow!
What you describe is not my experience, in the Netherlands, however the world is a large place and I don't know your situation. But it sounds like your instructions come from a place of spite ("At least I tried to learn from old people", stress "I"), if the youngsters won't listen. I've plenty of great experiences transferring much more arcane knowledge than the simple use of files (cutting angle geometry, internal stresses, unrelated: chromatic abberation, CCD Elektrodynamics, you name it) - this film was just way too slow and far from information-dense. I learned nothing I didn't already know from secondary school. 12 minutes of trivial (literally, learned at secondary school) material, unclear pointing and vague terms like "bastard", saying "perpendicular" and not seeing anything close to perpendicular, really nothing specific. Kids these days are perfectly capable of absorbing way more, way more technical and precise information than this introductory bore of a "can-you-get-to-a-clear-point-already" film. They'd love to hear what amount of teeth per centimeters are useful for how much material removal in volume per stroke distance, know about what range of cutting angles are acceptable (instead of the not-so-perpendicular demonstration, utterly confusing), wonder about how metal can cut metal, learn about modern metallurgy and hardening.
And ones that drift away during such theoreticals are perhaps better off being asked what they like to do, then you offer them a related metal project for them to work on (if they like music, perhaps a one-piece metal xylophone, or if they like computer gaming, a metal case for their PC - get creative) and hand them a selection of files. Then let them experience directly what every file does. Thén talk theory.
Every kid learns differently; don't push for the idea that they should all be jumping in excitement from this video.
wow you can put removable wood handles on these things, incredible
You still can. Have you tried?
@ thanks for reminding me. I don't file much, but I just added one to my Amazon shopping cart. Hopefully it turns out well. Amazing I had never heard of these until I saw the video
I love a bit of filing.
No AI was harmed doing this movie.
I came here expecting the "Fundamentals of Flying (1942)"
I stayed nonetheless, it is even more interesting :)
When I was at school the metal work teacher told us to stand like a boxer
🌍 Excellent 🌎 These videos
Give Respect
To internet...
Thanks to
RUclips 👀.
I started work in a cnc shop about 5 weeks ago. I asked a 70 year old who had been there for 25 years if they stocked file cards in the tool room so I could clean a clogged file provided me. He asked, "What's a file card?"
I'm pleased to say I didn't learn a thing there. Enjoyed the video though.
Thank you for the video
Ahhh this takes me back to my machining days...... :)
aye, filing a rough cut lump into a one inch cube with a max tolerance of one thou
@@bigoldgrizzly The 1" brass cube I made as an apprentice in 1956 is sitting on my bench, I checked it the other day and it is square on all surface and spot on 1" whichever way you measure it. Not bad for only using a hacksaw and scribing block and the appropriate files.
@@fredfarnackle5455
A seemingly pointless exercise to a young lad, but the benefits last a lifetime ;
@@bigoldgrizzly Ah, well, the reason we had to make one was to make a 4" square, 1" thick steel female for the brass cube to fit into. Marks were deducted for any gaps and measurements over 0.0001" - and same for any out of square where the examiner could poke feeler gauges through while holding a lab-grade square against it and also for finish - everything had to be mirror-like shiny. Oh, nearly forgot - it all had to be done in under a certain time, any minutes over that were marks off too!
the trade test in the 50s was to produce a 3 3/4 inch square x7/8 block of steel out of 4x1inch with a 7/8 hole in the centre. also, to make a 1x1 inch square out of a piece of 2 inch round bar. this was done using a scriber ,rule, hammer, chisel and file. Points were deducted for poor dimensions, poor finish.
Don't listen to at least one part of this. That is on the names of files. The bastard cut is the most coarse for any particular size of file. By that, I mean that a 12 in. bastard cut is more coarse than a 6 in. bastard cut.
Yes but did the film makers make a mistake or have naming conventions changed over time or location?
Yes.I always thought a ‘bastard’ cut file was very coarse.
Filipinos today make complete working copy's of the 1911 Colt Pistols. And everything except for the inside of the barrel is made by files.
❤❤❤❤❤ exelent video thanks!!!
An actual, scientific, test of file pressure showed that the "rule" of only applying pressure on the "cutting stroke" is incorrect, and the file will cut faster with pressure on both front and back strokes.
I wish I'd seen this twenty five years ago
3:17 Imagine cutting that block with a hack saw, soft steel or not, I don't care if that's aluminum, it seems like it would take forever to get through
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe I need training on The Hacksaw because if I cut that block, it would take me days and several blades!
steverlord Power Hacksaw was universal in WW2. Use good quality HSS blades in a good frame and using good practiced technique - - you'd be surprised how fast a handheld hacksaw can cut. That piece in the film would be too big for a regular 12" blade. Hard to get a proper full stroke.
However say a one inch square piece can usually be cut in a minute or so. Invest in quality blades and buy from a trade source.
After two years of bench work getting my gunsmithing certification I would use a hacksaw anytime I only needed one piece of stock it’s only worth setting up the bandsaw if you need multiple pieces
Seeing how these cut it really highlighted how bad all my files are lol.
Amen protect me from the evil ones attacking me and my family and friends now
I have the same vise only bigger, Parker 956.
I made this movie in 1942 and the worst part was Albert Shillendorfmanscither using the files in an inappropriate manner. They took him out back, and he got the strap. He came back in ready to be a workman. None wore a workman's hat.
It's just too bad it's so hard to find good files these days.
Pferd files and abrasives are still great..
@@jeremydoblinger3609 they may be but they do not sell that brand around by me here. So I would have to order them. Which is not at easy as just picking one up in a store is. I was going to order some Vallorbe files but it would have cost $28 to ship two needle files to me. That's just the shipping costs. So each file would have ended up costing me $27.40 a piece. I thought that was a bit steep.
What are you talking about, almost every file you find anywhere will do just fine. Just pick the profile you want instead of too fine or too rough and you're good to go, unless you're quick to blame the tool. It takes practise. "Good" ones (read: unnecessarily premium finish ones/ hand stiched) just cost more money, also not hard to find.
@@zbnmth I'm talking about files for sharpening saw teeth, if you must know. When you get down into the finer tooth pitches what files you use becomes extremely critical. Then you want needle files. Which are difficult to come by and expensive when you do. They're special order items and shipping is exorbitant. If I could just walk in somewhere and pick them up for their purchase price we wouldn't be having this conversation. Alas that is not the case. It'd cost me over $40 just to have one tiny file in my hot little hands. Specifically a Vallorbe 100mm second cut three square needle file. But now you know what you can get me for Christmas.
Heh. Until I saw the initial view of a machine shop, I thought this was going to be an educational film for office clerks.
It still was, learned nothing I didn't already pick up in secondary school.
Welp... I just learned a lot today.
Narrator sounds like Col. Sherman T. Potter
It’s the “transatlantic” accent and they used to teach it in schools. It’s the american equivalent to the British RP accent.
Awesome
5:50 Using a Norea brand oil can. ---Doozer
2:03 a whut now
Single cut BASTARD cut
That bastard file!
Before the angle grinder
Now I can file everything, from bread to nuclear power plants.
I want to try this but I deleted all my files by accident
Don’t worry they’re just in the recycle bin under the bench, so you can still have a go.
I'd like to see how they make a file.
Really hard to file a complaint here.
still good!
This film must have been made using a actor. Every time he is shown draw filing, he held the file incorrectly. The pressure he has to apply to get the file to cut will bend the file and produce a curved surface. One should push the file down with your two index fingers over the job, and only use your thumbs and other fingers to guide the file back and forth.
When he filed a flat on the ring, you could see him rocking the file slightly.
The film did not show an important process - filing a curved surface. This is done by continuously rotatng the file such that the point of contact moves backwards during the cutting stroke. Never by following the desired curve.
Nonsense. Files are fully hardened and do NOT bend. The filing technique used is standard procedure. The technique you suggest is a variation which is also used.
@@rogerfreeman4362 You have never used a file then. They certainly do bend. The stiffness of steel is measured as Young's Modulus. Youngs Modulus is only 5 % or so greater for hardened steels than it is for mild steel. Look it up. Mild steels are around 200 GPa, hardened are up to 210 GPa . In any case, files are only case hardened, as hard steel is brittle.
When I did my trade training, the usual method technical school instructors used was to give you an off-cut of structural steel and tell you to hand-file it down to a rectangle precisely square on all sides and to specified dimensions. They chose the starting size and final specified size such that it would take you a full day to do it. At the end of the day, your muscles would be totally stuffed unless you held and used the file correctly, and you'd never achieve a flat surface if ýou held the file the way the actor did in this video.
Anyone can try this experiment: Place a file without a handle cross-wise on a steel rule (they are usually 1 mm thick) on a solid rigid surface and press down on both ends of the file. You won't have any difficulty making both ends of the file touch the rigid surface.
Nowadays you just use your battery powered grinder. Square??
It depends.
Still needs filing after
Nope. Rough
Too inaccurate for bench fitting. May do for many fabrication tasks.
Match tool to Job.
Yes but is the draw filing done with pressure in one direction or both
One. Taking care to keep the file flat in both planes, draw it towards you. Relieve the pressure and return to the start position reapply some light pressure and perform the second stroke.
What was NOT mentioned here but is very useful in finishing work is SPOT-FILING. This is used to relieve high spots in the same way as Scraping but when it is desired to remove more metal. Spot filing would be completed before moving on to scraping.
In spot filing you will place a couple of fingers on the far end of the file. Then apply that end of the file to the high spot (usually indicated by prussian blue HiSpot compound after trial on a known very flat surface).
Then use light short strokes (again just using light pressure on the forward stroke and none on the inbound or return stroke). Each high spot will be filed down in turn. Don't try to file several at once. Try this technique - it will produce excellent flat surfaces good enough say for some cylinder heads. (GE apprentice 1966)
@@causewaykayak excellent, thank you.
@@causewaykayak NOW I learned something. Thanks, I always thought scraping came straight (hah) after grinding flat, or maybe even after mere filing.