When You're the Affair Partner
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- Опубликовано: 8 апр 2024
- Throughout her decades as a therapist, Dr. Alexandra has helped many people navigate being "the affair partner." Participating in infidelity creates an intoxicating yet profoundly confusing blend of emotions and experiences. In this episode, Dr. Alexandra examines the psychology of this role and offers a compassionate look into the surrounding context: the thrills, secret benefits, sources of shame, and potential origin stories embedded within this controversial role.
Relevant links:
"A Great Wagon" by Rumi (onbeing.org/poetry/a-great-wa...)
Journal of Sex & Martial Therapy: "Object of Desire Self-Consciousness Theory" by Anthony F. Bogaert and Lori A. Brotto (med-fom-brotto.sites.olt.ubc....)
"Taking Sexy Back" (bookshop.org/p/books/taking-s...) by Dr. Alexandra Solomon
Facebook Group: Esther Perel Discussion Group ( / 793115204193690 )
Reimagining Love episode: "Guidance for the Newly Single" (link.chtbl.com/o22Rui9D)
Order Dr. Alexandra’s new book, Love Every Day (bookshop.org/p/books/love-eve...)
Subscribe to Dr. Alexandra’s Newsletter (dralexandrasolomon.com/subscr...)
Submit a Listener Question (form.jotform.com/212295995939274)
Join Dr. Alexandra's five-day retreat with the Modern Elder Academy - Get 10% off with code 'GF10' (www.meawisdom.com/enroll)
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Esther Perez speaks nine languages - she states that there is a word for the other woman in all 9
Languages yet there are no words in those languages for the other man. I find that interesting.
Easy, women have rarely been involved in developing languages. 🤷🏼♀️
I liked that you addressed this issue. It's not talked about enough. However you didn't even touch on the devastation that the AP goes through on a daily basis. The loneliness, sadness, pain or anything like it. It would have been nice if you addressed the daily anxiety and stress the AP goes through.
That mostly about healing and stopping pursuing the emotionally unavailable men (they can be all sorts unavailable, not necessary married). Exactly because that hurts.
Thank you so much for naming this. I appreciate your feedback.
The 3 roles are actually 2 roles. The AP is the "innocent" one. The one cheating is at fault. The one being cheated on is at times at fault as well. It is between the two of them. The 3rd is most often a symptom of the malfunction.
Thank you for this podcast. Rarely talked about and never any empathy for the affair partner, you brought so many ideas to light as to the reasons we tell ourselves that we will not hurt anyone.
Thank you so much for your comment. Wishing you all of my best!
The AP is often also being played by the errant husband.
Not always the husband
Yes, the AP can certainly be someone of any gender.
A person can justify the why, the how, etc.. but the truth is a person who KNOWS a man or woman is married and doesn’t back off is wrong. Period. It’s never ok to insert yourself into a couples union even if there are problems. Every couple has issues and goes through hard times and by allowing yourself to be the “escape” that someone is craving in the moment just adds to the problems. It hardly ever ends well…
It’s wrong and reflects their own trauma of choosing emotionally unavailable partners. Healthy people don’t do it.
Truth
There isn't insertion there's invited connection and confessions that the person at home said No to.
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts in this space. I hope this episode supports you in learning a bit more about what might keep someone from stepping away even when they "should." Wishing you peace and thank you again.
@@melvinbirdman7438 Exactly! The person at fault is the one in a relationship being unfaithful and dishonest. The 3rd one may not even know about everything. Stop blaming the person outside the relationship!
He wasnt married had partner no children persuaded me for a year promised he would leave otherwise i refused to see him. For 18 months i had the most gorgeous relationsip of my life he said he wanted to marry me wanted to care for me the rest of my life. He then moved across the world devasted me. Im not over it never will be. He says still loves adores me yet not able to leave. Im the only one whoes life is utterly ruined. Have sympathy for the the person who believed he'd wanted me only.
I'm so sorry that you're going through this. I wish you the best of luck. ❤
Thank you so much for sharing your story. Sending you kindness during this challenging time.
I needed this so bad
Really glad this landed for you. Sending gentleness your way.
Have never betrayed another women or man in my life; never would. So low.
Why are you here?
@@saero1960 So they can feel superior
Judgy
@@evesbyteit’s not; it’s a _decision_ to be not a coward. Need somebody else - say it and proceed there openly.
But this video is mostly about complicated and traumatised people who actually keep that intrigued
Don't say never.
My husband’s affair partner was very proud at her place in the breaking up of our marriage. All three of us work at the same company & she didn’t care & both of them, the cheaters are shameless. I ended up quitting because I couldn’t go through the pain, the shame & the disrespect that both of them has put me through
This sounds incredibly painful and difficult. Wishing you peace as you continue on your healing journey.
@@alexandrahs1 it was & I haven’t recovered. But it seems karma was just right behind him; he lost a sizable $$$ for the settlement, he lost the only daughter he loves & guilt, remorse & regret all came knocking at his doorstep. He was crying & begging the time I spoke with him….but it can’t go back to where it was. I will never go back despite the fact that I still love him. God & my faith will help me along life’s way & I’m willing to wait. But never allowing a low life come back after he broke me into pieces
Gutless turds! I’m so sorry, sweetheart. Sending hugs from Nebraska.
Mine was a serial cheater.
How will I ever get the AP to hear this? It all makes sense. Oh. I'm the betrayed spouse. Maybe I should not have listened, but I'm working on trying to forgive and empathize with the AP.
That shows character. I've been where you are. It's hard, but perspective gets easier with the passage of time.
Thank you for being a part of this space. Here is some additional information surrounding my e-course - I hope it can serve as an additional resource for you as you continue to heal from betrayal. courses.dralexandrasolomon.com/can-i-trust-you-again-rebuilding-after-betrayal-or-deceit#:~:text=It%20is%20an%20opportunity%20to,creating%20a%20vision%20for%20change. I really appreciate your thoughtful words and am sending kindness to you.
I was interested in your message until you said that you don’t take an ethical stand on the affair partner’s decision to create a deceitful relationship. Such a relationship violates another person’s autonomy, and the onus for that is on both affair partners. While there may be reasons or explanations for this decision, it can almost never be a moral one.
That fully depends on what you preceive of as morality.
@@northofyou33 Oh please enough of that crap. You're helping a cheating spouse destroy their marriage and their family unit. You don't have to be a part of that ... period. It's really that simple. You have total agency of your own actions. I choose not to be a part of that.
I knew a psychopath girl whose logic was: “I want to feel the _power_ of it when you take somebody from another girl”.
@@kognitivescientist jeez, that's hideous. They exist alright, but I'd hazard a guess that that attitude is the minority.
Thank you for sharing in this space. My goal for this episode was to address the psychological and relational dynamics of the affair partner while holding compassion for their humanity. I appreciate you stepping into the conversation and am sending positive energy your way.
This is the second time that I have become the affair partner and it sucks
I hope this episode was a supportive resource for you. Thank you for listening and for sharing in this space.
@dwaynebronk Did they lie to you to rope you in or did you know from the beginning?
And never forget you can draw in sti's into your partner or into yourselves as you open your sex circle beyond what you control
Thank you for naming this difficult circumstance.
I have an issue with the object of desire self-consciousness theory. It seems incredibly sexist and doesn’t take into account the socialization of women to be objects of desire. Given that we are trained to see our self-worth as evidenced by being desirable to a man wouldn’t it follow that single cis women would be more susceptible to this? Kind of offensive frankly.
Thank you so much for sharing in this space. Were you able to listen to the full episode? The theory itself is certainly gendered, although it can play out no matter your gender and gender expression. I hope the Relational Self-Awareness questions I offered within the episode were supportive to you in further exploring the topic. And of course, along with everything in these podcast episodes - take with you what lands for you and leave behind the rest!
I just wanted to thank you for this insight. It's helpful to me 💙
So glad this landed for you.
The best talk on this topic!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you so much for sharing this. XO
So lovely to have a mature and balanced view on this topic
So glad this landed for you. Thank you so much for your comment!
Thank you.
For covering an important and difficult topic. It is amazing to me the hatred and animosity.And vitriol people have for this type of thing. It's no wonder that people don't want to speak up with the amount of judgmental.
People out there. I truly think that comes from fear that their partner could do that to them. Life is messy.
There are also many cases where the AP will harass, bully and even stalk the wife and sometimes family. Of course there are exceptions but many APs do go out of their way to be intentionally cruel and cause more destruction. I also know there are times when the wife harass the AP. It's honestly a lose lose situation on all sides. Everyone ends up hurt.
Thank you for sharing in this space.
Very insightful‼️
Thank you for sharing!!
Wish you’d address the problem in older people’s marriages - sexless marriages. Usually it’s the woman doesn’t want sex anymore. Or sometimes a partner becomes ill or has a dementia. Is the other person obligated to remain sexless for the rest of his/her life in these circumstances? I know a few couples in these kinds of situations. The partner who still wants and needs sex doesn’t want to end the marriage, and neither do the affair partners they’re involved with. Both have settled lives, but just need physical intimacy. A friend of mine is in her late 60s and still very sexual. Her affair partner is in his late 60s as well, and his wife has dementia and other end-of-life health issues. They’ve been together for almost three years. He is honoring his vows for “in sickness and health” and is committed to his wife’s care, but also is still in need of sex …
Well done
Thank you for listening!
This entire explanation or argument is premised on the idea that marriage is somehow an ideal state and not in actuality a largely failed myth of culture in which people become subsumed and pigeonholed.
The assumption that I must be broken, confused or compromised because I have chosen to make love with my partner is the least feminist position you could possibly take. I am neither of those things.
What I am is in full embrace of reality. My sexual needs are being met. His sexual needs are being met. She has zero sexual interest in her husband. For six of the last 17 years she has not touched him and avoid him by staying up late after he goes to bed. For five of those years he and I were drawn to each other and did nothing about it despite strong desire and friendship. This year I changed my perspective on the entire thing because I stopped to think about how short life actually is, about how much I genuinely like him and care about his happiness, and about how little I buy into the BS about marriage.
In this video you perpetuate the myth that marriage is an ideal state for any individual, no matter what. I wholeheartedly disagree. And I think that assertions that people who do not believe that marriage is an ideal state need to be fixed is like saying that LGBTQ individuals need to be reprogrammed. Marriage is the biggest hoax played upon people there has ever been. If I do my partner any favor whatsoever it is not orgasms or blowjobs, it is seeing him for the whole person he is and acknowledging that the only thing that prevents him from fully expressing himself is his unfortunate state of being caught up in the marriage myth. Every aspect of our culture insists that people do this thing that is anathema to their existential right to be free and express themselves fully. Men and women are jacked around by fiction, advertising, capitalism, marketing, stereotypes and bullshit. The person who needs help is the one who will not acknowledge the truth that most marriages do not last, that physical desire shifts and most often leaves, and that infidelity is common for a very good reason. It would be more honest for you to create a video in which you discuss this truth and liberate people from cultural narratives that entrap them.
If she doesnt want him and he doesn’t want her but she won’t let him go… it’s been over for 15 years! We’re happy together. He IS getting divorced. We never cheated. Just attracted.
🤣
Sounds like Dara
Mimi said all men cheat
Life saving 😘
So glad this landed. ❤
I did NOT have an affair omg you are so wrong. My parents did not cheat!!
I didn’t have no affair with Scott
What about the sex!!