@@Kolokythi Listen to the original/1st closing theme song "Hyaku Gojuu Ichi" (meaning 'One Hundred & Fifty-One') Yes, that's Oak's japanese VA singing in-character Perfect soundtrack for his trolling
I feel it was better since having too many characters would have made it harder to incorporate compelling stories. By only having Gary as the focus for competing trainers then the audience can better learn to hate that guy. If ash has too many other rivals then Gary would probably get overshadowed.
My late step father always told me the same thing. I never understand it when I was extremely young but he always said the same things year after year lol
Well the other Trainer didn't have annoying Team Rocket slowing them down every episode. Ash literally had to deal with a criminal organization that targets only him trying to steal his Pikachu.
Not the entire organization. Just the two members that Giovanni had to let in after a benefactor forced him to let in James and his friend and his friend’s wife died leaving him with Jesse. James fancied Jesse so he paired them up together and sent them away to keep them from screwing up his designs at world domination.
It’s very possible they lost to Sabrina and maybe got turned to dolls 😳 I can believe Gary was skilled enough to beat her when she was in her “creepy phase”
In the video he mentions that Gary never battled Sabrina since he never had her badge in his badge case despite having 10 badges. Also, I doubt the other 2 trainers battled Sabrina because if they did and they lost and were turned into dolls, then Professor Oak would never have known what happened to them.
@@advenco344 they still could have been turn into dolls, got turned back and had a sudden thought after their life changing experience that made them not wanting to be a trainer anymore after the freaky shit they just went through.
The best reason I can think of to mention the other trainers again and again like they do is to establish that Ash is lagging behind the rest. Comparing him to Gary exclusively creates a situation where average is unknown - Is Ash lagging behind, or is Gary exceptional? We wouldn't know. By saying Ash is behind all three, they establish an average playing field. Ash is struggling to keep up, but it turns out that it's not because he's unskilled, but because he's a magnet for trouble and his kind nature has him helping every time he encounters trouble. Gary is the type to walk past trouble and he's skilled, so he pulls out ahead - The other two trainers had enough skill to go a good way into the challenge, but couldn't meet the skill level needed at the end, where as Ash does.
i agree. i dont dislike the existance of either. and in other shows, they could just forget they exist from the start. which would break its continuity and make it seem fake. by giving us updates on the other 2 trainers, we get to see that they did in fact exist, and were able to get ahead, but for one reason or another, couldnt really finish it and gave up.
Ash's first four badges weren't exactly easy to obtain and his stubbornness didn't help. He was unlucky with having Pikachu as his starter up against Brock, but that would have put him on about equal footing with the Charmander trainer. After that, the other three trainers were able to get the Cascade badge without even battling because Misty wasn't there to demand they battle for the badge. Then, Ash was just too stubborn with the Thunder and Marsh badges; Gary doesn't even have them - he knew when he was licked and moved on to other gyms. The other two must have done the same.
@@taiken64 he could've gotten more pokemon as well. or fully trained his butterfree. as it gets pretty early confusion. which melts both geodude and onix. pikachu can solo misty.
Well, I didn't want to say anything, but I was the Charmander trainer. I gave up after finding out the fairy type gym wasn't going to open for another 16 years and decided to take a job as a computer programmer instead. There just happened to be a job opening for that after some incident with missiles and a Pikachu or something.
Another strike through against Damien being the Charmander trainer is that Nurse Joy’s comment about him and his gang having bad reputations in the area implies that Damien lives in the area. If he was the Pallet Town trainer, he wouldn’t have stayed long enough in the area to have a “bad reputation” to begin with (since we know that the Pallet town trainers got 5 badges in the time that Ash got 4, which implies that the Pallet town trainers didn’t lollygag around one area for too long)
Not to mention Ash never once seemed to give any hints that he knew him. Pallet town is a small town with few people so he should know the other two trainers.
He could have lived in the area, gone to Pallet Town to receive his starter, and come back. However, this further complicates what needs to have happened, inorder for him to have been the Charmander trainer from Pallet, so I’d still say that it’s possible, but unlikely. The English dub could have easily changed the phrasing, and that comment from Nurse Joy might have been very different in the original. It’d be nice if someone were to check this.
@@BoraCM We've seen in the anime that humans tend to recognize individual Pokémon even separate from others of their species (i.e. Cynthia recognized Ash's Chimchar as the same one that Paul used to own). Professor Oak has seen Charizard before and has never given indication that he recognizes Charizard as the one he himself gave out (and the same can be said for Ash's Bulbasaur and Squirtle). "He could have lived in the area, gone to Pallet Town to receive his starter, and come back." Again, the Charmander trainer could not be Damien because while Damien lives in the area (and travelling to Pallet Town and coming back still means he lives in the area), the Charmander trainer is a travelling trainer (since he/she obtained 5 badges by the time of "Primeape Goes Bananas"). We know the Charmander trainer gave up at some point but it had to have been sometime after "Primeape Goes Bananas" (and consequently "Charmander the Stray Pokémon") so it could not have been Damien.
I feel like Pallet Town is a small enough place that Ash would know everyone who lives in it. Especially other kids who grew up there at about the same time as him. I really think it would be weird if he managed to grow up in such a small town for 10 years without meeting the other children there too. In fact, I'm surprised he never talks to them when he returns home, like calling over and asking them how their journeys went.
Do we actually know that these trainers were from or lived in Pallet Town? If not they could've travelled there from somewhere else to pick up a starter.
It's implied in the anime that all trainers in Kanto get their starter Pokemon from Pallet Town on the week of their birthday. So they're likely not Pallet Town residents.
Assuming they’re all from pallet town then let’s see what’s possible. Pallet town is masero town or something like that in Japanese. It looks like country side and while pallet town may be small it could be widespread. Ash is depicted as a loser at least at the time among the other trainers so he’s probably not friends with a lot of kids (at the time before serena existed). Also he seemed surprised that gary was one of three kids and he’s definitely not friends with gary (at the time). He also probably didn’t know who the other kids were. It seems like all of the trainers didn’t know each other well or lived in the same vicinity despite being in the same town which is possible. Heck technically even oak wasn’t close to ash at the time. He didn’t even realize ash was arriving to get a pokemon. The only one he knew was coming would be gary and the others showed up even earlier cus they were already gone. Gary was the last one to arrive. This is all i gathered from watching the first episode of kanto pokemon.
If Gary and Samurai didn't mention the trainers, I'd almost be tempted to say the two mystery trainers never existed, and Professor Oak set things up to make sure Pikachu would be Ash's starter. After all, he'd remember that Ash would end up with it, thanks to a certain time traveling onion 50 years before...
Even if the other pallet trainers didn't show up again as skilled battlers I would have liked it if they still showed up and shown different avenues that trainers can take instead of just the gym circuit. They would eventually do this more and more with characters like Brock and May anyway but it would have been cool if one of the other trainers showed up later having decided to be something else instead of just dropping off the face of the earth.
Especially since Pallet is a really small town and Ash would most definitely know the other two trainers by face and name. It would be nice if he dropped in on them sometime to see how they were doing now, and ask them how their journeys went, etc.
Another option for the five badges is Sabrina. Even when Gary showed his 10 badges, Sabrina's was not one of them. If they challenged her they may well have been destroyed enough to lose confidence. (Posted at 5:25 in).
That would've been Red and Blue, but that doesn't work cause Squirtle has always been the second most popular starter behind Charmander and it's been confirmed Gary got Squirtle.
I actually accept and respect the writers explanation that the other two dropped out. Towards the end the gyms might had gotten tougher for them. At the beginning it's part of the story that there were others that had also started, so it's fine to me if they were mentioned. With that said I also appreciate the research and editing of this video.
yeah, other series might've just dropped them by simply not mentioning them again, kinda like the GS ball situation. But here at least they let the thing kinda resolve, so we know they are out of the picture.
A theory I heard somewhere is that the two trainers could’ve been turned to dolls by Sabrina, and after she was turned good, they could’ve been too traumatized.
2 years late but when you mention the charmander right after Hypnos nap time, being held by the fashion guy, the trainer next to him is holding a bulbasaur
Given pallet was a small town and the other two trainers where probably in his age group, I’d say ash probably know the other kids. Plus I think oak gives out starter Pokémon at least once a year. The chances of Damien being one of the trainers is slim. More than likely the other trainers got tired of living on the road and went home.
The kids could have come from anywhere in Kanto though if Oak is the only professor in the region. In that case Ash is very unlikely to know the other trainers.
@RegiKing You're correct about out of town trainers getting a starter from Oak as there actually is an episode in which a trainer who doesn't live in Pallet goes there to get his first starter. :)
@@legerdemain444 That is true but this is more specific to trainers from Pallet town. Oak giving out pokemon to new trainers is nothing too new, but these other two trainers seem to be labeled as kids specifically from Pallet town, which would imply that is where they live prior to going on their pokemon journey. If the wording was different then it may fit with more people, like if they said it in general as two other trainers also came by around here, then perhaps.
I can see that, having a boss progression but with rivals each with different tactics and such. It would be redundant for the reasons you gave, while also adding a bit of bloat in a show with team rocket, group dynamics, gym challenges, and side stories being juggled around.
I think that was the idea originally, because as "relatable" Ash is, most players progressed fast like Gary and focused on evolving their Pokemon, and seeing Ash do worse possibly inspired them to be better and see what would happen if they went all the way. But it's not really close to the games since there you have Ash and Gary representations that do make it all the way, even moreso than Ash and Gary. I get that Ash shouldn't become a Champion on his first try (though he does with the Orange Islands!), I think having Gary at least make it to the Elite 4 or actually show them in their environment would be cool, despite us seeing them randomly by shere luck. Even having Ash return and win until the Elite 4 would be epic, but that's what that Red with Charizard X vs Mewtwo kinda did. They kinda knew it wouldn't work if they kept the trainers in, or at least thought it wouldn't, just like they thought Gary being in the later seasons would probably throw off new watchers for not knowing his history. It would take a bit of an end goal and actual effort instead of just have the same formula with slightly different pokemon/trainers. Tbh, I think the show would have been badass if they kept Gary and the duo in the whole time, and I think kids would also appreciate it. You don't have to know Gary's history to know he's an ass. You don't have to have 10 year-olds be the star of the show like kid Anakin to peak the interest of 10-year-olds that wanted to be Luke Skywalker as a kid. All of these things not being addressed actually made the show incompetent; seeing Ash actually grow to be 12 and 14, even if it took 700 episodes, would have been way more epic than just ignoring it and not giving Ash an age but having him look and act like a 10-year-old making the same mistakes he would have made 1000 episodes ago and having Team Rocket be just as incompetent and wasteful popping up with giant robots that grow on trees. Even the idea of other Rockets like Butch and Cassidy was a cool concept. We also don't ever hear how other trainers start. Apparently, Kanto only has 1 professor that gave out 4 starters once and somehow there are thousands of trainers, many of which made it to the league. How did these trainers or their associates ever capture Pokemon without owning a Pokemon? Did Oak donate to towns, and if so, how did he obtain his first Pokemon? There's a story of the Chicken and Egg complex, much like how there used to only be 150 types of Pokemon in Kanto at least, and not too long ago, whatever that means (Ash is still 10, right?) Whenever there are old trainers that had new Pokemon for years, it makes me think Kanto and Oak are jokes compared to the rest of the regions that often have Kanto Pokemon in them and include almost all of the previous region pokemon in them.
Just throwing out another possibility that would be pretty much the same result as what you suggested about Giovanni. The two other trainers could have thrown in the towel after meeting Sabrina and seeing her psychic powers. They also may have been unable to figure out Blaine's riddles.
i do think damian is the trainer with the charmander starter, but because of his mistreatment, its possible that he didnt give up, but was forced to. similarly, i could see the bulbasaur trainer be one of those 1 pokemon only trainer, because in the game bulbasaur has such an easy time early on, he could've easily gained all those 5 badges with bulbasaur alone... but meeting sabrina and then blaine could've been too hard, as both are extremely capable trainers, who also main its weakness. being poison grass, venusaur would have a hard time against either.
Oak saying they weren't skilled could have been a dubbing era. Like Ash saying he'd come back for Pigeot. That fashion guy could be the Charmander trainer. He may have preferred contest to battling and the loss to Giovanni sealed the deal. The trainers didn't quite being trainers, they just quite trying to do the league. Breeders, contest, actors, there are a lot of jobs shown in the anime for people to use the critters.
So what if the trainers that got destroyed by mewtwo on Giovanni's gym were actually these trainers... (Edit) What I mean to say is, thos trainers that are actually seen being rashed by mewtwo at the gym. I remember one had an Onix
Giovanni being their 7th badge and not finding Blaine may be a thing but they could've just got the Gary badges. Losing to Giovanni could play a big part but a little more like having weak mid Evo pokemon or sucking at catching pokemon are more likely.
They definately had plans for these other 2 trainers to show up later on and act as a sort of group of rivals but in the end they chose to stick to only Gary so they acted as if they didn't exist and just gave the conclusion that they weren't skilled. Kinda sad to see as it would've been very interesting to see Ash interact with multiple rivals that grew at his level along with Gary
I think Chronicles should've given the fans an opportunity to learn who these two trainers were. We could've gotten an early introduction to Kanto Contests using one of those two mystery Pallet Town trainers.
I like how Oak basically trolled Ash by making him think he'd get a starter Pokémon other than Pikachu. He lets Ash open them one by one clearly already knowing that they'd be empty. You also forgot to mention Sabrina who was a pretty scary OP Gym trainer. Imagine nearly being turned into a doll. Any kid would quit after that.
@@Thor-Orion Oak did smash ash's mom. He took her on vacations. Probably even helped pay for the house after Ash's dads money ran out. Oak hit the fuck outta her. Then ran. Thats why she got Mr. Mime. To mend her broken heart. What does Mr. Mime do? All the chores. That was all she did. She stopped doing it out of depression of Oaks break up. Oak hit it and quit it and left her in the dust. Who they gonna believe? He's one of the most famous Pokemon researchers.
What I'm about to say sounds messed up but I've always thought about this one theory. Considering the anime, in its original Japanese format, got away with a decent amount of sex references, showing a firearm, and having Meowth dressed up as Hitler one time, I wouldn't be too surprised if one of the mystery trainers at one point on his/her journey actually died and was never mentioned again afterwards. Maybe Professor Oak knows about it but still said both trainers didn't have the skill just to not upset Ash and the gang. Maybe it could have happened at the Pokemon Tower where Ash also had died (for a while obviously and they kept his death in the English Dub). I just thought I would bring that up. The mystery trainers was one thing that bugged me when watching Season 1 and watching this video has certainly made me go "Oh yeah, I forgot about them". It was a poorly written aspect of a season that I'm not particularly fond of. If there's one thing the writers should have kept in mind, it's having to be careful about every decision made, or else some unintentional story writing would slip through. Great video once again, I'm really digging your Pokemon channel.
Honestly, I could see a theory like that actually being planned by the writing team back then. Takeshi Shudo had so many insane ideas for the show, some of which made it into the novelisation and some of which were completely shot down.
Sabrina definitely turned at least one of those trainers into dolls. Or maybe the trainers had teamed up to travel together (Ash had Brock and Misty, Gary had his Cheerleaders) and really did get squished by Mewtwo
I like Damien being the Charmander Pallet Trainer but isn't Pallet a tiny ass town? I grew up in a small town that I imagine being similar in size(based off of the cities we see as well as villages). Everyone knew everyone, especially your peers. Ash and Damien would, at minimum, have run into each other at the local park or something. Kids are also really good at recognizing faces that they've had experiences with.
At the same time, one might have move into town like a week ago. even some of the games kinda do this, I think? silver starts with you getting off the truck and going strait into the trainer job.
Honestly the whole Indigo League part of the anime feels like it was intentionally subverting the expectations of anyone who played the game. Despite the other Pallet town trainers being occasionally mentioned, I don't think they were ever planning to actually show them. Even Gary himself, despite being built up as Ash's rival, doesn't even get to battle him and is eliminated earlier in the tournament than Ash.
I really wish that there was a side anime about these two. If I were to write their storeies why they quit I would have them be forced to by their overbearing parents: The Charmander trainer would be the protagonist who is forced to quit by his father after the boy winds up in the hospital failing to catch Zapdos, the Bulbasaur trainer being the bookish rival would be forced to quit by his mother to focus on his studies after his failure to defeat Sabrina who Ash never beat.
@@hephastgus689 nah theyre literally allowed to go into the wilderness alone and fight dangerous creatures that could easily kill them with no adult supervision. They can also go anywhere without parent permission. They are basically adults. There’s almost no rights in this universe that adults have that kids don’t.
It was definitely a male and female trainer. I'm sure the Charmander trainer was supposed to be someone close to Ash. Ash never said anything about being lonely, but he was never shown with anyone but Gary in any flashback. There was a good chance the 2 trainers might very well have joined Ash after Pewter city instead of Misty and Brock. Damien seemed to have a western theme so I doubt him and his charmander are from pallet town. I also think the starters evolved once early on but didn't fully evolve which would be a very good reason to quit. The fact that all of Pallet town ended up being 4 people tells me the characters either moved away after quitting or just got written to never exist. I did always find it odd that gym leaders traveled the region which then became a normal occurrence of Ash's companions. At the very least with how few people are in Pallet, they would know each other.
Twist plot, the other 2 trainers got ganged up by actual competent team rocket members and had either thier pokemon stolen and possible leg breakage, or they met a worse fate at lavander tower without the scope
I always thought that they were the anime version of green/leaf/blue(ash is anime red, gary is anime green or blue internationally and then have the female trainer be there too) and the other is either Ritchie or maybe a kid that lost his charmander or released it then Damian got it and then ash got it, but that doesn't really make much sense
This whole time I thought Garry got an Eevee from Professor Oak in the first episode. It wasn’t until the Johto battle that it was revealed that he got a Squirtle.
I personally would like it to be Damian and Leaf. Because would we have the trio of Kanto Startes in Anime (Ash with Charizard, Gary with Blastoise e Leaf with Venusaur)
@@Thor-Orion A Charmander that he was too much of a pussy to keep. I think Sei La was implying that all 3 Pallet Town starters would then be accounted for.
I like the idea of Damian being one of the Pallet trainers, as it gives at least one of the two a bit more background into why they ultimately failed despite the strong start, and how that could have happened.
That tall teenage girl with the red outfit and blue hair was Assunta/Amanda and she's been confirmed to be from Viridian City and started after after Ash did.
I'm pretty sure Corey and the other two trainers from the Mewtwo movie wound up being the top three at the indigo league (although you only see their silhouettes) so that immediately debunks the idea that he might have had less than 8 badges.
Orr I got a crazy theory that one of the trainers (bulbasaur girl) asked to not mention her to anyone. We see her at the end of the Pokémon league for kanto. She’s probably headed a different route so she went to hoenn. In the “that’s just Swellow” episode, we see another girl with blue hair who has a Swellow which might be her. It’s honestly unclear what has happened to her but, that’s basically it. Also to add a twist , she’s a ditto. So that’s why she doesn’t want others knowing about her. Obviously Pokémon said that they quit. Both of the trainers [probably because the charmander one did] left. Even though the bulbasaur girl might still be left. Just, hidden…
So, Melanie was not one of the Pallet Town trainers who took Bulbasaur?? (Where Ash got his during Bulbasaur and the Hidden Village.) Okay, here's my theory: Melanie chose Bulbasaur from Pallet Town, but found hurt/abandoned Pokemon and wanted to treat them at her sanctuary. She knew Bulbasaur had potential, so she gave it up to Ash. Maybe Melanie wanted to be a Pokemon Breeder instead of a trainer.
I think the biggest Damien debunk is in his reasoning for ditching Charmander 'he couldn't even beat the pokemon' in the samurai episode we clearly see a clip of that Charmander beating
God I love the amount of mysteries the original Pokémon seasons had. The GS ball story arc really frustrates me because they did nothing with it. But like 90% of Pokémon the mysteries really did help in selling the franchise, so maybe they did do some things on purpose
i dunno i kinda like the idea of the other trainers doing celadon and than calling it quits after going against giovani's mewtwo in which case mewtwo strikes back shows the trainers though their identities are still a mystery. I could also see them going to sabrina next due to the fact its right next door, losing, and spending the rest of their lives in her doll house or at least a long period of time until she changes and lets them go but by that point hteyre so traumatized they say fuck it
@Family Fun Gaming Jokes and sarcasm aside, he did say Red in his reply comment when he said Charmander. So you're correcting him for saying Charmander is in Red, by you saying to him Charmander is in Red. He already said that in his comment above. He was making a sarcastic post about Charizard.
pokémon adventures manga does it perfectly, specifically the english localization. red has a saur blue has a char green gets the blastoise, two RPS matches between each of their colors and starters
Nah... Red fits way better with Charizard. Pokémon origins is the closest thing to the games and Red is accurately depicted in this series. The final Battle between Charizard and Blastoise was glorious!
It feels a little serendipitous that I run into this video right now. Lol. me and my cousin were just talking about this the idea that we ended up coming up with her somewhat agreeing to us that the two mystery trainers are potential players of the game that might have quit or stopped playing the game somewhere between the fourth and the sixth gyms, because the game kind of takes a bit of a dive around there and there is a little bit of confusion with where to go and what to do, etc. so what we thought was that it wouldn’t be red or blue, but rather that it would be the player of the games it’s a fun little idea I just threw around and left it at that lol
To be fair, Brock never confirms that he knows Gary nor even battled him before for a gym badge. I believe it was the episode "Dig those Diglett" where Ash, Brock and Misty meet up with Gary for the first time since they all got together. Brock never mentions anything about knowing Gary beforehand, how their battle went or even acknowledging how strong of a trainer he is. Even when Gary shows off his 10 badges, you can clearly see the Pewter badge. Obviously he battled Brock, yet Brock just stands there not showing any kind of emotion toward his loss. He doesn't deny that he battled Gary, but he doesn't confirm it either. So Brock not showing any kind of recognition to other trainers who could have possibly battled him who are possibly from Pallet Town doesn't mean anything.
episode fashion flash also has a trainer with a bulbasaur, that you just barely catch a glimpse of in the same sequence you see the charmander (13:48) bulbasaur also seen in breeding center secret as well in the crowd (14:33)
I think Ash got the starter Charmender from one of the trainers in Pallet town. Gery got Squirtle. And the girl owning the venusaur in the Mewto film was the fourth trainer.
I like to think that, with the split timelines between different games and the anime, red and blue are the other pallet town trainers. Just in this universe, they’re average trainers
Back then Red and Ash had pretty much the same design with a few different details, same goes for Gary and Blue, it wouldn't make sense to have Red and Blue as separate characters from Ash and Gary
I don't think the other Pallet trainers are necessarily from Pallet, rather Pallet is just where you can collect your first Pokémon. I want to know how 10 year old Gary Oak can drive and has a load of groupies
Wait there was something that you touch on in this video that would be interested as a video on its own. Who were the other kanto gym leaders and what Pokémon did they use. Disclaimer!: this is only the second video of yours I’ve seen so idk if you’ve already covered that topic. So bare with me. 😂
I like to imagine the lad with the Bulbasaur is currently sitting on Sabrina's shelf somewhere and the lad with the Charizard got his arse kicked by Mewtwo and was so shaken up he promptly skipped town and quit training forever lest the psychic monster find him.
venusaur is part poison, which is weak to psychic attacks. so its possible he got his ass kicked by sabrina... but it could also be that he ended up against blaine instead, which being a fire type, would put his venusaur in sever disadvantage. for the charmander, i still think its damian, and because of the way he treats his pokemon, it could just be that he didnt give up, but was forced to.
I always thought it was blue, red, ash and Gary. I was always red and my brother always played blue so it was fun to pretend we were all four in the same universe, you know!
10:30 I don’t want to be “that guy” but Brock grabbing Damian like that, so infuriated with him, that would not happen the other seasons. Not even Johto. I loved that moment. You never see Brock get THAT angry.
personally always just figured that damian was the pallet trainer who had that charmander, never really trained it properly, and just continued his journey with all those other pokemon before tapping out. but with Ash's anime arc ending soon, there is still a small chance he encounters the other two trainers who had the other starters. but it's incredibly small, we got a better chance of him becomming the new 8th gym leader in kanto or him fighting Nemona than we do seeing that happen
Well I chose Bulbasaur! Mystery almost solved! I went on to catch/trade myself all 151, including Mew (both from the live battle event in the winter of 1998 in Cincinnati) and Mew from the strategy where you have to skip over certain trainers, then beat them in a specific order and then walk onto a certain block of grass ;). I also trained them legit without missingno Mystery 50% solved
I watched this and felt motivated. I showed this to my friends they watch this and they felt motivated. They showed it to their families they watch this and felt motivated. We now come together to rent a big projector and play this for our village they felt motivated. Thank You for this video. God Bless you. ❤
It makes perfect sense the other pallet town trainers might be on the SS.Anne. Given how Ash got his ticket and he should have been between 0 and 1 town behind his rivals. At least one of them likely got a ticket the same way.
Now that you brought it up, yeah it does seem like a missed opportunity to include these 2 trainers. It could have been a story where Ash was the worst trainer from Pallet but would eventually become the very best (like no one ever was), defeating each of them and finishing it off with the battle between Ash and Gary
Yeah look backs like this definitely prove how messy and lacking first seasons in long running anime can be Just look at either Season 0 or 1 of Yugioh compared to 2 and forwards Johto certainly improved on many aspects Kanto lacked looking back: Ash actually BEATING the gyms instead of being gift his badges Less Team Rocket interference in big events like Gym Battles and League Competitions More rivals between adventure and league Larger Pokémon roster Actual Legendaries in episodes instead of being movie exclusive League lose was ACTUALLY FAIR by losing to a more challenging and equally skilled opponent and not a case of bullshit rules and direct interference by a CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION STEALING HIS POKÉMON BEFORE THE MATCH So much for all those Nurse Joys brought in, not even one to spar a few minutes to treat his team to aid a guy who literally came in on a known criminal groups hot air balloon Not obvious I’m still salty on how they handled the Indigo League match with Ritchie
Actually them not being skilled enough makes quite a bit of sense. Assuming they went the normal game route (Pewter>Cerulean>Vermillion>Celadon>and then either Saffron, or more likely, Fuschia) they have to deal with either Sabrina (an extremely powerful psychic who's probably still in her pre-haunter creepy girl phase), Koga (a guy that's an elite 4 candidate), Blaine (who, Assuming Gary got squirtle, has advantage over both bulbasaur and charmander in either typing or experience) and finally GIOVANNI. While we only get Jesse and James subbing in since he's out at the time Ash shows up, since he's the LAST leader trainers face, it's easily understandable if he's good enough and ruthless enough to crush new trainers. My guess is that the other 2 trainers quit after they got either 5 or 6 badges but assuming they did beat Koga and Sabrina, the bulbasaur trainer probably lost to Blaine and the charmander trainer to Geovanni.
@@georgeDeming in the games at least, it's more about who has the easiest early game since you have more options later on. Bulbasaur got 3-2-3. 3 super effective, 2 neutral and 3 not effective. With Brock, Misty and Giovanni in slot 1, Surge and Sabrina in slot 2 and Blaine, Erika, and Koga Squirtle 3-2-3 as well with Brock, Blaine, and Giovanni in the first slot, Koga and Sabrina in slot 2 and Miaty, Erika, and Surge in slot 3. Charmander gets a 1-4-3 Erika... that's it for slot 1st, Sabrina, Koga, Surge and Giovanni for slot 2. And slot 3 gets Brock, Misty, and Blaine.
The thing about the games is, they reward you even early on for catching other Pokémon. Choosing Charmander is "supposed" to be the hardest route, but that's only true if you don't catch and train any other Pokémon before Brock. An interesting advantage to choosing it that I noticed early on, is that Charmander has a much easier time blasting through Viridian Forest because he has an advantage against Bug, so it would be easier to hunt for a Pikachu and a Caterpie there with him. Though, granted with either of the other two, all you need is a Spearow to get through Viridian Forest easily, and then you can just use your starter against Brock. I mean, I suppose figuring out that you're supposed to catch Butterfree and raise it to level 12 to learn Confusion is a bit counter-intuitive, but Brock is the only fight that should possibly be difficult with Charmander. Even then, if you do insist on fighting Brock (or worse, Misty) with Charmander, your Charmander would likely be way overleveled by the end of it, and would steamroll the rest of the game. You would have to miss a lot of good Pokémon to make it even kind of true, and even then the excessive leveling up would balance it out and make the rest of the game easy.
Viridan Gym, Cinnabar Gym even Saffron city were all INCREDIBLY tough to beat in canon of the Anime. They couldve breezed through Koga, Lt Surge, Erika, Brock and Misty's Sisters easily but Blaine Sabrina and Giovanni are INCREDIBLY powerful trainers and 2/3 of those Ash didn't even beat, he just was gifted the badge or beat a stand in.
Gary starting with Squirtle makes him dismissively not wanting to fight Ash because he'd "obviously win" even funnier. It's less that "Red doesn't exist" and more "Ash is this universe's version of Red". Ash and Red are different interpretations of the same character.
4:27 it’s interesting how in early Pokémon you could just fail & never get good. I heard somewhere that Ash’s dad and grampa tried to be trainers too & that’s why they’re not around. I get why something as depressing as career failure was cut from the show, but I think it should be talked about
I always assumed it was the guy who ditched his charmander, the other person who ditched their squirttle leading it to join the gang, and the girl that didn't have the skill to level her bulbasaur properly. Ash collects all three starters from these trainers so I just assumed that these were the other 3 trainers from pallet even though they were never known where they were from but eh.
@@williamgrippo6160 not really. for one, ash never stored his charmander with oak, so he wouldnt have seen it. as for bulbasaur, while it was abandoned, there's nothing with him that says he was owned in the first place. it could've been that he was attacked by a trainer, who left him close to death, or was more cruel during the battle.
When Ash duels the samurai in the viridian forest the samurai has a flashback to being defeated by the other three starting trainers. Gary is one of them. So we know they at least made it through the forest.
My perspective is that the chance of inconsistensies in the story through-out the years, is far greater than the chance there is an actual solution to everything. Thus I think the two trainers are simply supposed to be two generic trainers meant to be there for the sole purpose of giving the feeling of Ash having more rivals. And to give more depth to the universe. Which he at some point surpasses and makes him appear stronger by comparison. Red and Blue from Pokemon Origins are likely a completely re-imagined story from the anime. And are more accurate to the game timeline. I don't think it has been intended for the games and anime to share characters at all outside of the Gym Leaders. At least not up until newer games. In a rpg game, the character is most frequently portraied as yourself, not Ash & Gary or Red & Blue. Those are simply prefix name options because they expected people might want to make it be more cohesive than it was. Nothing more than that. It's never the less fun to investigate mysteries! I just wanted to point out that illusions are used frequently in this type of media to give the viewer the intended feeling. Reguardless of what this implies for the universe or the story.
At 13:45 you mention the charmander, to the right at he beginning of the shot is a squrtle, and right before cutting away we see the guy in black holding a bulbasaur with a mohawk.
Damien in the episode series and Cross in the I Choose You movie both refuses to take Charmander back for being weak. In "Enter Pikachu!" (Pikachu is Born!) Pokémon Journeys: The Series [season 23 of Pokemon] has Pikachu's backstory as being a Pichu, that was being cared for by a Kangaskhan after falling off a cliff, and the events leading to his evolution into a Pikachu and eventually meeting Ash (Ash is only in the story because he was supposed to go to Pokémon summer camp when he was six years old, but slept in. Ash is then seen in a flashback to his first meeting with Pikachu.) So four years between Pichu being at the Summer Camp and Oak's Lab.
![Twenty One Pilots - “The Line” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E2Rj2gQAyPA/mqdefault.jpg)
You gotta love how Prof. Oak let Ash open those empty Pokéballs even though he knew damn well there was nothing in them just to troll the kid
Not only that, but he also just straight up put three empty pokeballs there... Trainers take the pokeballs when they get a pokemon.
@@ShaneOzouf oak is officially a troll
@@Kolokythi
Listen to the original/1st closing theme song "Hyaku Gojuu Ichi" (meaning 'One Hundred & Fifty-One')
Yes, that's Oak's japanese VA singing in-character
Perfect soundtrack for his trolling
Obviously the reason Brock didn't recognize Damien is because he never opened his eyes to see him.
Ok that got me.
How can he see a pokecenter
@@vincentgaming6556 he simply opened his eyes
🤔🧐 ah yes yes very logical. I love the comment section 🤣
Correct
Always felt it was a missed opportunity, not having the other two trainers as actual recurring characters.
Better than Team Rocket for every episode.
I feel it was better since having too many characters would have made it harder to incorporate compelling stories. By only having Gary as the focus for competing trainers then the audience can better learn to hate that guy. If ash has too many other rivals then Gary would probably get overshadowed.
My late step father always told me the same thing. I never understand it when I was extremely young but he always said the same things year after year lol
@@shivur5073 lmao what
@@rageraptor7127his stepfather is dead
Well the other Trainer didn't have annoying Team Rocket slowing them down every episode. Ash literally had to deal with a criminal organization that targets only him trying to steal his Pikachu.
Which Giovanni didn't even care about. It just kept them too busy to screw up his plans through comedic incompetence.
Not the entire organization. Just the two members that Giovanni had to let in after a benefactor forced him to let in James and his friend and his friend’s wife died leaving him with Jesse. James fancied Jesse so he paired them up together and sent them away to keep them from screwing up his designs at world domination.
Orr, what if they were dealing with Cassidy and butch?
@@RandallStevenson and the recent episode when Iris was battling Cynthia Team rocket even takes responsibility for helping her train up as they said.
No wonder he's always late in Prof. Oak's eyes.
It’s very possible they lost to Sabrina and maybe got turned to dolls 😳 I can believe Gary was skilled enough to beat her when she was in her “creepy phase”
In the video he mentions that Gary never battled Sabrina since he never had her badge in his badge case despite having 10 badges. Also, I doubt the other 2 trainers battled Sabrina because if they did and they lost and were turned into dolls, then Professor Oak would never have known what happened to them.
@@advenco344 fair point
@@advenco344 they still could have been turn into dolls, got turned back and had a sudden thought after their life changing experience that made them not wanting to be a trainer anymore after the freaky shit they just went through.
@@crimsonrose1508 yeah that is plausible.
@@advenco344 yeah maybe they turned back normal after Ash defeats Sabrina and she became good again
The best reason I can think of to mention the other trainers again and again like they do is to establish that Ash is lagging behind the rest. Comparing him to Gary exclusively creates a situation where average is unknown - Is Ash lagging behind, or is Gary exceptional? We wouldn't know. By saying Ash is behind all three, they establish an average playing field. Ash is struggling to keep up, but it turns out that it's not because he's unskilled, but because he's a magnet for trouble and his kind nature has him helping every time he encounters trouble. Gary is the type to walk past trouble and he's skilled, so he pulls out ahead - The other two trainers had enough skill to go a good way into the challenge, but couldn't meet the skill level needed at the end, where as Ash does.
i agree. i dont dislike the existance of either. and in other shows, they could just forget they exist from the start. which would break its continuity and make it seem fake.
by giving us updates on the other 2 trainers, we get to see that they did in fact exist, and were able to get ahead, but for one reason or another, couldnt really finish it and gave up.
Ash's first four badges weren't exactly easy to obtain and his stubbornness didn't help. He was unlucky with having Pikachu as his starter up against Brock, but that would have put him on about equal footing with the Charmander trainer. After that, the other three trainers were able to get the Cascade badge without even battling because Misty wasn't there to demand they battle for the badge. Then, Ash was just too stubborn with the Thunder and Marsh badges; Gary doesn't even have them - he knew when he was licked and moved on to other gyms. The other two must have done the same.
@@taiken64 he could've gotten more pokemon as well. or fully trained his butterfree. as it gets pretty early confusion. which melts both geodude and onix.
pikachu can solo misty.
Gary had a convertible car
@@Anch54321 Full of hos
Well, I didn't want to say anything, but I was the Charmander trainer. I gave up after finding out the fairy type gym wasn't going to open for another 16 years and decided to take a job as a computer programmer instead. There just happened to be a job opening for that after some incident with missiles and a Pikachu or something.
???
@@chocov1233 It's been over a year. I don't remember making this post, but obviously it was a joke in the context of the video.
@@Merennulli it's 3 jokes in one, i liked it!
@@chocov1233 the computer programmer comment is refering to the imfamous porygon incident
Fairy type is gay
Another strike through against Damien being the Charmander trainer is that Nurse Joy’s comment about him and his gang having bad reputations in the area implies that Damien lives in the area. If he was the Pallet Town trainer, he wouldn’t have stayed long enough in the area to have a “bad reputation” to begin with (since we know that the Pallet town trainers got 5 badges in the time that Ash got 4, which implies that the Pallet town trainers didn’t lollygag around one area for too long)
Not to mention Ash never once seemed to give any hints that he knew him. Pallet town is a small town with few people so he should know the other two trainers.
Or, he could’ve gotten the 5 badges, and came back to the town after aswell
He could have lived in the area, gone to Pallet Town to receive his starter, and come back. However, this further complicates what needs to have happened, inorder for him to have been the Charmander trainer from Pallet, so I’d still say that it’s possible, but unlikely.
The English dub could have easily changed the phrasing, and that comment from Nurse Joy might have been very different in the original. It’d be nice if someone were to check this.
@@BoraCM We've seen in the anime that humans tend to recognize individual Pokémon even separate from others of their species (i.e. Cynthia recognized Ash's Chimchar as the same one that Paul used to own). Professor Oak has seen Charizard before and has never given indication that he recognizes Charizard as the one he himself gave out (and the same can be said for Ash's Bulbasaur and Squirtle).
"He could have lived in the area, gone to Pallet Town to receive his starter, and come back." Again, the Charmander trainer could not be Damien because while Damien lives in the area (and travelling to Pallet Town and coming back still means he lives in the area), the Charmander trainer is a travelling trainer (since he/she obtained 5 badges by the time of "Primeape Goes Bananas"). We know the Charmander trainer gave up at some point but it had to have been sometime after "Primeape Goes Bananas" (and consequently "Charmander the Stray Pokémon") so it could not have been Damien.
or he had a bad reputation in nearby places
I feel like Pallet Town is a small enough place that Ash would know everyone who lives in it. Especially other kids who grew up there at about the same time as him. I really think it would be weird if he managed to grow up in such a small town for 10 years without meeting the other children there too. In fact, I'm surprised he never talks to them when he returns home, like calling over and asking them how their journeys went.
Do we actually know that these trainers were from or lived in Pallet Town? If not they could've travelled there from somewhere else to pick up a starter.
It's implied in the anime that all trainers in Kanto get their starter Pokemon from Pallet Town on the week of their birthday. So they're likely not Pallet Town residents.
It would be no surprise that they would come from other towns like May and Serena.
@MarvinPowell1 tlThen nearly every week there should be kids getting their starter pokemon..
Assuming they’re all from pallet town then let’s see what’s possible. Pallet town is masero town or something like that in Japanese. It looks like country side and while pallet town may be small it could be widespread.
Ash is depicted as a loser at least at the time among the other trainers so he’s probably not friends with a lot of kids (at the time before serena existed). Also he seemed surprised that gary was one of three kids and he’s definitely not friends with gary (at the time). He also probably didn’t know who the other kids were. It seems like all of the trainers didn’t know each other well or lived in the same vicinity despite being in the same town which is possible.
Heck technically even oak wasn’t close to ash at the time. He didn’t even realize ash was arriving to get a pokemon. The only one he knew was coming would be gary and the others showed up even earlier cus they were already gone. Gary was the last one to arrive.
This is all i gathered from watching the first episode of kanto pokemon.
If Gary and Samurai didn't mention the trainers, I'd almost be tempted to say the two mystery trainers never existed, and Professor Oak set things up to make sure Pikachu would be Ash's starter. After all, he'd remember that Ash would end up with it, thanks to a certain time traveling onion 50 years before...
That is actually a stroke of genius. I'm convinced while although the trainers did exist, oak most definatly made sure ash got pikachu.
This is just the best and most plausible pokémon Theorie I have just heared. Thanks!
Wait woah I haven't watched the anime in so long. What time travelling onion?
@@eanternet He means Celebi
@@linchenwild8007 Ahhh lmao
Even if the other pallet trainers didn't show up again as skilled battlers I would have liked it if they still showed up and shown different avenues that trainers can take instead of just the gym circuit.
They would eventually do this more and more with characters like Brock and May anyway but it would have been cool if one of the other trainers showed up later having decided to be something else instead of just dropping off the face of the earth.
Especially since Pallet is a really small town and Ash would most definitely know the other two trainers by face and name. It would be nice if he dropped in on them sometime to see how they were doing now, and ask them how their journeys went, etc.
Another option for the five badges is Sabrina. Even when Gary showed his 10 badges, Sabrina's was not one of them. If they challenged her they may well have been destroyed enough to lose confidence. (Posted at 5:25 in).
or got turned into puppets
@@LucyKosaki weren't the puppets released when Ash defeated Sabrina?
@@JuntosXlaLibertadMileyBuIIrichyes they were. And technically haunter defeated sabrina with the power of comedy
the early seasons were so weird and unique, I love seeing analysis of it
I always just thought the other two trainers were a nod to the real human players of the games for Red and Green.
Great point, it matches up well! Never thought of that before.
That would've been Red and Blue, but that doesn't work cause Squirtle has always been the second most popular starter behind Charmander and it's been confirmed Gary got Squirtle.
@@MarvinPowell1he means red and green because those are the versions that Japanese had which is technically the official versions.
That won't work because pokemon anime and pokemon games are seperated and they don't even belongs to the same multiverse.
I actually accept and respect the writers explanation that the other two dropped out. Towards the end the gyms might had gotten tougher for them. At the beginning it's part of the story that there were others that had also started, so it's fine to me if they were mentioned. With that said I also appreciate the research and editing of this video.
yeah, other series might've just dropped them by simply not mentioning them again, kinda like the GS ball situation. But here at least they let the thing kinda resolve, so we know they are out of the picture.
A theory I heard somewhere is that the two trainers could’ve been turned to dolls by Sabrina, and after she was turned good, they could’ve been too traumatized.
2 years late but when you mention the charmander right after Hypnos nap time, being held by the fashion guy, the trainer next to him is holding a bulbasaur
With Ash story now at its conclusion. I kinda wish we saw the two mystery trainers from Pallet Town.
Given pallet was a small town and the other two trainers where probably in his age group, I’d say ash probably know the other kids. Plus I think oak gives out starter Pokémon at least once a year.
The chances of Damien being one of the trainers is slim. More than likely the other trainers got tired of living on the road and went home.
The kids could have come from anywhere in Kanto though if Oak is the only professor in the region. In that case Ash is very unlikely to know the other trainers.
@RegiKing You're correct about out of town trainers getting a starter from Oak as there actually is an episode in which a trainer who doesn't live in Pallet goes there to get his first starter. :)
@@legerdemain444 oh I didn’t realize that
@@legerdemain444 That is true but this is more specific to trainers from Pallet town. Oak giving out pokemon to new trainers is nothing too new, but these other two trainers seem to be labeled as kids specifically from Pallet town, which would imply that is where they live prior to going on their pokemon journey. If the wording was different then it may fit with more people, like if they said it in general as two other trainers also came by around here, then perhaps.
Damn, if Oak gives out Pokemon every year, he must really like Ash to be so invested in his journey.
They probably originally planned to have the other trainers be rivals, but the gym leaders ended up filling that role
I can see that, having a boss progression but with rivals each with different tactics and such.
It would be redundant for the reasons you gave, while also adding a bit of bloat in a show with team rocket, group dynamics, gym challenges, and side stories being juggled around.
When i was a kid i thought the other trainers were a reference to us playing the game as pallet town trainers
I think that was the idea originally, because as "relatable" Ash is, most players progressed fast like Gary and focused on evolving their Pokemon, and seeing Ash do worse possibly inspired them to be better and see what would happen if they went all the way. But it's not really close to the games since there you have Ash and Gary representations that do make it all the way, even moreso than Ash and Gary. I get that Ash shouldn't become a Champion on his first try (though he does with the Orange Islands!), I think having Gary at least make it to the Elite 4 or actually show them in their environment would be cool, despite us seeing them randomly by shere luck. Even having Ash return and win until the Elite 4 would be epic, but that's what that Red with Charizard X vs Mewtwo kinda did.
They kinda knew it wouldn't work if they kept the trainers in, or at least thought it wouldn't, just like they thought Gary being in the later seasons would probably throw off new watchers for not knowing his history. It would take a bit of an end goal and actual effort instead of just have the same formula with slightly different pokemon/trainers.
Tbh, I think the show would have been badass if they kept Gary and the duo in the whole time, and I think kids would also appreciate it. You don't have to know Gary's history to know he's an ass. You don't have to have 10 year-olds be the star of the show like kid Anakin to peak the interest of 10-year-olds that wanted to be Luke Skywalker as a kid. All of these things not being addressed actually made the show incompetent; seeing Ash actually grow to be 12 and 14, even if it took 700 episodes, would have been way more epic than just ignoring it and not giving Ash an age but having him look and act like a 10-year-old making the same mistakes he would have made 1000 episodes ago and having Team Rocket be just as incompetent and wasteful popping up with giant robots that grow on trees. Even the idea of other Rockets like Butch and Cassidy was a cool concept. We also don't ever hear how other trainers start. Apparently, Kanto only has 1 professor that gave out 4 starters once and somehow there are thousands of trainers, many of which made it to the league. How did these trainers or their associates ever capture Pokemon without owning a Pokemon? Did Oak donate to towns, and if so, how did he obtain his first Pokemon? There's a story of the Chicken and Egg complex, much like how there used to only be 150 types of Pokemon in Kanto at least, and not too long ago, whatever that means (Ash is still 10, right?) Whenever there are old trainers that had new Pokemon for years, it makes me think Kanto and Oak are jokes compared to the rest of the regions that often have Kanto Pokemon in them and include almost all of the previous region pokemon in them.
I like how it didn’t matter that ash missed the opportunity to get the starters because he got all of them later
Maybe the two trainers will show up in the final 11 episodes of Ash's journey. That'd be something
Just throwing out another possibility that would be pretty much the same result as what you suggested about Giovanni.
The two other trainers could have thrown in the towel after meeting Sabrina and seeing her psychic powers.
They also may have been unable to figure out Blaine's riddles.
Guess they should have followed Gary's lead and skip Sabrina for the 3 other random gym, badges.
i do think damian is the trainer with the charmander starter, but because of his mistreatment, its possible that he didnt give up, but was forced to.
similarly, i could see the bulbasaur trainer be one of those 1 pokemon only trainer, because in the game bulbasaur has such an easy time early on, he could've easily gained all those 5 badges with bulbasaur alone... but meeting sabrina and then blaine could've been too hard, as both are extremely capable trainers, who also main its weakness.
being poison grass, venusaur would have a hard time against either.
@@marcosdheleno I like this assumption. It's an interesting approach.
Oak saying they weren't skilled could have been a dubbing era. Like Ash saying he'd come back for Pigeot. That fashion guy could be the Charmander trainer. He may have preferred contest to battling and the loss to Giovanni sealed the deal. The trainers didn't quite being trainers, they just quite trying to do the league. Breeders, contest, actors, there are a lot of jobs shown in the anime for people to use the critters.
So what if the trainers that got destroyed by mewtwo on Giovanni's gym were actually these trainers...
(Edit)
What I mean to say is, thos trainers that are actually seen being rashed by mewtwo at the gym. I remember one had an Onix
I believe to they were and it was Yellow and Jack at least that's my theory.
That’s literally who I’ve gone on with life thinking lol.
I was wondering how Gary got his Earth badge when he lost to Giovanni
@@obi-wankenobi4640 Giovanni said that Gary had earned his badge, but wanted his help to test out another pokemon (which was Mewtwo.)
Giovanni being their 7th badge and not finding Blaine may be a thing but they could've just got the Gary badges. Losing to Giovanni could play a big part but a little more like having weak mid Evo pokemon or sucking at catching pokemon are more likely.
They definately had plans for these other 2 trainers to show up later on and act as a sort of group of rivals but in the end they chose to stick to only Gary so they acted as if they didn't exist and just gave the conclusion that they weren't skilled. Kinda sad to see as it would've been very interesting to see Ash interact with multiple rivals that grew at his level along with Gary
That trainer who chose Chamander mustve grinded his ass off to get past Brock and Misty lol
I think Chronicles should've given the fans an opportunity to learn who these two trainers were. We could've gotten an early introduction to Kanto Contests using one of those two mystery Pallet Town trainers.
I like how Oak basically trolled Ash by making him think he'd get a starter Pokémon other than Pikachu.
He lets Ash open them one by one clearly already knowing that they'd be empty.
You also forgot to mention Sabrina who was a pretty scary OP Gym trainer. Imagine nearly being turned into a doll. Any kid would quit after that.
Oak also wants to smash on Ash’s mom, so…
@@Thor-Orion Oak did smash ash's mom. He took her on vacations. Probably even helped pay for the house after Ash's dads money ran out. Oak hit the fuck outta her. Then ran. Thats why she got Mr. Mime. To mend her broken heart. What does Mr. Mime do? All the chores. That was all she did. She stopped doing it out of depression of Oaks break up.
Oak hit it and quit it and left her in the dust. Who they gonna believe? He's one of the most famous Pokemon researchers.
What I'm about to say sounds messed up but I've always thought about this one theory. Considering the anime, in its original Japanese format, got away with a decent amount of sex references, showing a firearm, and having Meowth dressed up as Hitler one time, I wouldn't be too surprised if one of the mystery trainers at one point on his/her journey actually died and was never mentioned again afterwards. Maybe Professor Oak knows about it but still said both trainers didn't have the skill just to not upset Ash and the gang. Maybe it could have happened at the Pokemon Tower where Ash also had died (for a while obviously and they kept his death in the English Dub).
I just thought I would bring that up. The mystery trainers was one thing that bugged me when watching Season 1 and watching this video has certainly made me go "Oh yeah, I forgot about them". It was a poorly written aspect of a season that I'm not particularly fond of. If there's one thing the writers should have kept in mind, it's having to be careful about every decision made, or else some unintentional story writing would slip through. Great video once again, I'm really digging your Pokemon channel.
Honestly, I could see a theory like that actually being planned by the writing team back then. Takeshi Shudo had so many insane ideas for the show, some of which made it into the novelisation and some of which were completely shot down.
@WTP Productions
A shame. He sounds like a great writer.
in english too
Prof. Oak mentions they just didn't get enough badges.
Sabrina definitely turned at least one of those trainers into dolls. Or maybe the trainers had teamed up to travel together (Ash had Brock and Misty, Gary had his Cheerleaders) and really did get squished by Mewtwo
I go with Suede's joke explanation that says they were crushed by the parts of Clefairy's rocket.
I like Damien being the Charmander Pallet Trainer but isn't Pallet a tiny ass town? I grew up in a small town that I imagine being similar in size(based off of the cities we see as well as villages). Everyone knew everyone, especially your peers. Ash and Damien would, at minimum, have run into each other at the local park or something. Kids are also really good at recognizing faces that they've had experiences with.
At the same time, one might have move into town like a week ago. even some of the games kinda do this, I think? silver starts with you getting off the truck and going strait into the trainer job.
I don't know, this is the same Ash that could be fooled by basically any Team Rocket disguise at all. A talking Meowth? Oh those must be super common.
@@redkingdom15 fuck, that's true lmao
Honestly the whole Indigo League part of the anime feels like it was intentionally subverting the expectations of anyone who played the game. Despite the other Pallet town trainers being occasionally mentioned, I don't think they were ever planning to actually show them. Even Gary himself, despite being built up as Ash's rival, doesn't even get to battle him and is eliminated earlier in the tournament than Ash.
I really wish that there was a side anime about these two. If I were to write their storeies why they quit I would have them be forced to by their overbearing parents: The Charmander trainer would be the protagonist who is forced to quit by his father after the boy winds up in the hospital failing to catch Zapdos, the Bulbasaur trainer being the bookish rival would be forced to quit by his mother to focus on his studies after his failure to defeat Sabrina who Ash never beat.
Pretty sure in this universe 10 year olds are legally adults
- Carpet - adults need money and can be pressured by other people
@@-carpet- More like children given more freedom.
@@hephastgus689 nah theyre literally allowed to go into the wilderness alone and fight dangerous creatures that could easily kill them with no adult supervision. They can also go anywhere without parent permission. They are basically adults. There’s almost no rights in this universe that adults have that kids don’t.
There is one thing you forgot, they could of been meant to protect ash but got recalled once they completely got 4 to 5 gym badges.
It was definitely a male and female trainer. I'm sure the Charmander trainer was supposed to be someone close to Ash. Ash never said anything about being lonely, but he was never shown with anyone but Gary in any flashback. There was a good chance the 2 trainers might very well have joined Ash after Pewter city instead of Misty and Brock. Damien seemed to have a western theme so I doubt him and his charmander are from pallet town. I also think the starters evolved once early on but didn't fully evolve which would be a very good reason to quit. The fact that all of Pallet town ended up being 4 people tells me the characters either moved away after quitting or just got written to never exist. I did always find it odd that gym leaders traveled the region which then became a normal occurrence of Ash's companions. At the very least with how few people are in Pallet, they would know each other.
Twist plot, the other 2 trainers got ganged up by actual competent team rocket members and had either thier pokemon stolen and possible leg breakage, or they met a worse fate at lavander tower without the scope
"The white hand drags you down...."
I always thought that they were the anime version of green/leaf/blue(ash is anime red, gary is anime green or blue internationally and then have the female trainer be there too) and the other is either Ritchie or maybe a kid that lost his charmander or released it then Damian got it and then ash got it, but that doesn't really make much sense
This whole time I thought Garry got an Eevee from Professor Oak in the first episode. It wasn’t until the Johto battle that it was revealed that he got a Squirtle.
They could have been destroyed by Giovanni, or been trapped in a psychic prison by Sabrina when they got to Saffron and came away mentally scarred
I personally would like it to be Damian and Leaf. Because would we have the trio of Kanto Startes in Anime (Ash with Charizard, Gary with Blastoise e Leaf with Venusaur)
So what did Damian have?
@@Thor-Orion A Charmander that he was too much of a pussy to keep. I think Sei La was implying that all 3 Pallet Town starters would then be accounted for.
I like the idea of Damian being one of the Pallet trainers, as it gives at least one of the two a bit more background into why they ultimately failed despite the strong start, and how that could have happened.
Great video. I've always wondered about the other trainers and the GS ball.
Anything mixing Simpsons and Pokemon get a thumbs up by me.
This concept would make a fascinating foundation for a future reimagining of a Kanto based Pokémon videogame adventure.
I would love if they followed it up even 20 years later
I always thought the trainer who took Bulbasaur was the girl who defeated Richie in the Pokémon League with her Ivysaur… 😊
That tall teenage girl with the red outfit and blue hair was Assunta/Amanda and she's been confirmed to be from Viridian City and started after after Ash did.
"green/leaf" is actually Blue. Gary is to Green as Ash is to Red. The translation was altered because of the US never receiving Green version.
I'm pretty sure Corey and the other two trainers from the Mewtwo movie wound up being the top three at the indigo league (although you only see their silhouettes) so that immediately debunks the idea that he might have had less than 8 badges.
This is off topic but it kinda fits with what you said I always had a theory that AJ became the champion!
Orr I got a crazy theory that one of the trainers (bulbasaur girl) asked to not mention her to anyone. We see her at the end of the Pokémon league for kanto. She’s probably headed a different route so she went to hoenn. In the “that’s just Swellow” episode, we see another girl with blue hair who has a Swellow which might be her. It’s honestly unclear what has happened to her but, that’s basically it. Also to add a twist , she’s a ditto. So that’s why she doesn’t want others knowing about her. Obviously Pokémon said that they quit. Both of the trainers [probably because the charmander one did] left. Even though the bulbasaur girl might still be left. Just, hidden…
So, Melanie was not one of the Pallet Town trainers who took Bulbasaur?? (Where Ash got his during Bulbasaur and the Hidden Village.)
Okay, here's my theory: Melanie chose Bulbasaur from Pallet Town, but found hurt/abandoned Pokemon and wanted to treat them at her sanctuary. She knew Bulbasaur had potential, so she gave it up to Ash. Maybe Melanie wanted to be a Pokemon Breeder instead of a trainer.
That’s a great theory
The reason why Red doesn't exist in this universe, is because Red is literally Ash. Ash is supposed to be Red and Gary is supposed to be Blue.
I think the biggest Damien debunk is in his reasoning for ditching Charmander 'he couldn't even beat the pokemon' in the samurai episode we clearly see a clip of that Charmander beating
Damien must’ve sucked ass as a trainer if he couldn’t beat bug type Pokémon with a fire type
God I love the amount of mysteries the original Pokémon seasons had. The GS ball story arc really frustrates me because they did nothing with it. But like 90% of Pokémon the mysteries really did help in selling the franchise, so maybe they did do some things on purpose
The GS Ball was supposed to have Celebi in it, leading up to the Celebi movie.
i dunno i kinda like the idea of the other trainers doing celadon and than calling it quits after going against giovani's mewtwo in which case mewtwo strikes back shows the trainers though their identities are still a mystery. I could also see them going to sabrina next due to the fact its right next door, losing, and spending the rest of their lives in her doll house or at least a long period of time until she changes and lets them go but by that point hteyre so traumatized they say fuck it
So …ash is yellow version .. meaning whomever chose the Charizard could ultimately become red
YOU CAN CHOOSE A CHARIZARD ? ! IS IT A SECRET POKEMON. i thought we start with charmander in red
@@ilunet lol. You knew what they meant.
@@ilunet no in pokemon red, and blue you can
@Family Fun Gaming
Jokes and sarcasm aside, he did say Red in his reply comment when he said Charmander.
So you're correcting him for saying Charmander is in Red, by you saying to him Charmander is in Red. He already said that in his comment above.
He was making a sarcastic post about Charizard.
This is fun, man. I don’t have a ton of Pokémon friends who are THIS deep into it, so it’s cool to see other people overthinking these sorts of things
pokémon adventures manga does it perfectly, specifically the english localization. red has a saur blue has a char green gets the blastoise, two RPS matches between each of their colors and starters
I thought Adventures was just better in general.
I love reds op experimental eevee
Nah... Red fits way better with Charizard. Pokémon origins is the closest thing to the games and Red is accurately depicted in this series. The final Battle between Charizard and Blastoise was glorious!
obvious answer to why Brock doesnt recognize Damien - his eyes are always closed...
It feels a little serendipitous that I run into this video right now. Lol. me and my cousin were just talking about this the idea that we ended up coming up with her somewhat agreeing to us that the two mystery trainers are potential players of the game that might have quit or stopped playing the game somewhere between the fourth and the sixth gyms, because the game kind of takes a bit of a dive around there and there is a little bit of confusion with where to go and what to do, etc.
so what we thought was that it wouldn’t be red or blue, but rather that it would be the player of the games it’s a fun little idea I just threw around and left it at that lol
I think they found out about Sabrina and just quit instead of ending up a doll.
To be fair, Brock never confirms that he knows Gary nor even battled him before for a gym badge. I believe it was the episode "Dig those Diglett" where Ash, Brock and Misty meet up with Gary for the first time since they all got together. Brock never mentions anything about knowing Gary beforehand, how their battle went or even acknowledging how strong of a trainer he is. Even when Gary shows off his 10 badges, you can clearly see the Pewter badge. Obviously he battled Brock, yet Brock just stands there not showing any kind of emotion toward his loss. He doesn't deny that he battled Gary, but he doesn't confirm it either.
So Brock not showing any kind of recognition to other trainers who could have possibly battled him who are possibly from Pallet Town doesn't mean anything.
well maybe he simply didnt have anything to say about him?
episode fashion flash also has a trainer with a bulbasaur, that you just barely catch a glimpse of in the same sequence you see the charmander (13:48)
bulbasaur also seen in breeding center secret as well in the crowd (14:33)
I think Ash got the starter Charmender from one of the trainers in Pallet town. Gery got Squirtle. And the girl owning the venusaur in the Mewto film was the fourth trainer.
I like to think that, with the split timelines between different games and the anime, red and blue are the other pallet town trainers. Just in this universe, they’re average trainers
Back then Red and Ash had pretty much the same design with a few different details, same goes for Gary and Blue, it wouldn't make sense to have Red and Blue as separate characters from Ash and Gary
Throughout this entire video I was going, "its obvious that Damian is a strong candidate". I'm glad my suspicions were validated.
I don't think the other Pallet trainers are necessarily from Pallet, rather Pallet is just where you can collect your first Pokémon.
I want to know how 10 year old Gary Oak can drive and has a load of groupies
I didn't know Unova in the anime had more than eight gyms. It gives a lot of continuity and legitimacy to how things worked in the Kanto show.
Gary had 10 badges lol so there are more cities and towns in the anime regions that the games don’t have
It was Kanto though!
There's an episode where Ash goes to a gym and lost to a sandshrew but the gym leader closes his gym and decides to go on an adventure
@@jodiaz01 it was't official
@@jodiaz01 AJ's Gym isn't a real Gym besides he doesn't have a Badge to give but I do believe he's the one that becomes Champion!
I always thought it was just mentioned so that people would know the other 3 pokemon starter were doing alright.
Wait there was something that you touch on in this video that would be interested as a video on its own.
Who were the other kanto gym leaders and what Pokémon did they use.
Disclaimer!: this is only the second video of yours I’ve seen so idk if you’ve already covered that topic. So bare with me. 😂
I like to imagine the lad with the Bulbasaur is currently sitting on Sabrina's shelf somewhere and the lad with the Charizard got his arse kicked by Mewtwo and was so shaken up he promptly skipped town and quit training forever lest the psychic monster find him.
Gary choose squirtle so the other two trainers choose charmander and bulbasaur
venusaur is part poison, which is weak to psychic attacks. so its possible he got his ass kicked by sabrina... but it could also be that he ended up against blaine instead, which being a fire type, would put his venusaur in sever disadvantage.
for the charmander, i still think its damian, and because of the way he treats his pokemon, it could just be that he didnt give up, but was forced to.
I always thought it was blue, red, ash and Gary. I was always red and my brother always played blue so it was fun to pretend we were all four in the same universe, you know!
10:30 I don’t want to be “that guy” but Brock grabbing Damian like that, so infuriated with him, that would not happen the other seasons. Not even Johto. I loved that moment. You never see Brock get THAT angry.
personally always just figured that damian was the pallet trainer who had that charmander, never really trained it properly, and just continued his journey with all those other pokemon before tapping out.
but with Ash's anime arc ending soon, there is still a small chance he encounters the other two trainers who had the other starters. but it's incredibly small, we got a better chance of him becomming the new 8th gym leader in kanto or him fighting Nemona than we do seeing that happen
Well I chose Bulbasaur! Mystery almost solved! I went on to catch/trade myself all 151, including Mew (both from the live battle event in the winter of 1998 in Cincinnati) and Mew from the strategy where you have to skip over certain trainers, then beat them in a specific order and then walk onto a certain block of grass ;).
I also trained them legit without missingno
Mystery 50% solved
I think the trainers were two people doing a soul link hardcore nuzlocke
I watched this and felt motivated. I showed this to my friends they watch this and they felt motivated. They showed it to their families they watch this and felt motivated. We now come together to rent a big projector and play this for our village they felt motivated. Thank You for this video. God Bless you. ❤
It makes perfect sense the other pallet town trainers might be on the SS.Anne.
Given how Ash got his ticket and he should have been between 0 and 1 town behind his rivals. At least one of them likely got a ticket the same way.
Excellent video
I like to think that the Charmander and Bulbasaur Ash got were those very same Pokémon from Oak, for the reasons you mentioned.
How did Gary not be invited to Mewtwo’s island? He is better if not on Ash’s level
Maybe he was still feeling down after a strange pokémon beat his team with only one move in the Viridian Gym
Now that you brought it up, yeah it does seem like a missed opportunity to include these 2 trainers. It could have been a story where Ash was the worst trainer from Pallet but would eventually become the very best (like no one ever was), defeating each of them and finishing it off with the battle between Ash and Gary
Yeah look backs like this definitely prove how messy and lacking first seasons in long running anime can be
Just look at either Season 0 or 1 of Yugioh compared to 2 and forwards
Johto certainly improved on many aspects Kanto lacked looking back:
Ash actually BEATING the gyms instead of being gift his badges
Less Team Rocket interference in big events like Gym Battles and League Competitions
More rivals between adventure and league
Larger Pokémon roster
Actual Legendaries in episodes instead of being movie exclusive
League lose was ACTUALLY FAIR by losing to a more challenging and equally skilled opponent and not a case of bullshit rules and direct interference by a CRIMINAL ORGANIZATION STEALING HIS POKÉMON BEFORE THE MATCH
So much for all those Nurse Joys brought in, not even one to spar a few minutes to treat his team to aid a guy who literally came in on a known criminal groups hot air balloon
Not obvious I’m still salty on how they handled the Indigo League match with Ritchie
The Bulbasaur was released because that trainer was playing through a nuzlock, duhhh
Actually them not being skilled enough makes quite a bit of sense. Assuming they went the normal game route (Pewter>Cerulean>Vermillion>Celadon>and then either Saffron, or more likely, Fuschia) they have to deal with either Sabrina (an extremely powerful psychic who's probably still in her pre-haunter creepy girl phase), Koga (a guy that's an elite 4 candidate), Blaine (who, Assuming Gary got squirtle, has advantage over both bulbasaur and charmander in either typing or experience) and finally GIOVANNI. While we only get Jesse and James subbing in since he's out at the time Ash shows up, since he's the LAST leader trainers face, it's easily understandable if he's good enough and ruthless enough to crush new trainers.
My guess is that the other 2 trainers quit after they got either 5 or 6 badges but assuming they did beat Koga and Sabrina, the bulbasaur trainer probably lost to Blaine and the charmander trainer to Geovanni.
yeah, the Bulbasaur trainer had it rough with 3 out of the 8 badges
@@georgeDeming in the games at least, it's more about who has the easiest early game since you have more options later on.
Bulbasaur got 3-2-3. 3 super effective, 2 neutral and 3 not effective. With Brock, Misty and Giovanni in slot 1, Surge and Sabrina in slot 2 and Blaine, Erika, and Koga
Squirtle 3-2-3 as well with Brock, Blaine, and Giovanni in the first slot, Koga and Sabrina in slot 2 and Miaty, Erika, and Surge in slot 3.
Charmander gets a 1-4-3 Erika... that's it for slot 1st, Sabrina, Koga, Surge and Giovanni for slot 2. And slot 3 gets Brock, Misty, and Blaine.
The thing about the games is, they reward you even early on for catching other Pokémon. Choosing Charmander is "supposed" to be the hardest route, but that's only true if you don't catch and train any other Pokémon before Brock. An interesting advantage to choosing it that I noticed early on, is that Charmander has a much easier time blasting through Viridian Forest because he has an advantage against Bug, so it would be easier to hunt for a Pikachu and a Caterpie there with him. Though, granted with either of the other two, all you need is a Spearow to get through Viridian Forest easily, and then you can just use your starter against Brock. I mean, I suppose figuring out that you're supposed to catch Butterfree and raise it to level 12 to learn Confusion is a bit counter-intuitive, but Brock is the only fight that should possibly be difficult with Charmander. Even then, if you do insist on fighting Brock (or worse, Misty) with Charmander, your Charmander would likely be way overleveled by the end of it, and would steamroll the rest of the game. You would have to miss a lot of good Pokémon to make it even kind of true, and even then the excessive leveling up would balance it out and make the rest of the game easy.
Good channel man, looking forward to seeing more of your stuff
@13:48 there is a bulbasaur in the frame as well on the left and @14:34 there is another held by another trainer
Viridan Gym, Cinnabar Gym even Saffron city were all INCREDIBLY tough to beat in canon of the Anime. They couldve breezed through Koga, Lt Surge, Erika, Brock and Misty's Sisters easily but Blaine Sabrina and Giovanni are INCREDIBLY powerful trainers and 2/3 of those Ash didn't even beat, he just was gifted the badge or beat a stand in.
Gary starting with Squirtle makes him dismissively not wanting to fight Ash because he'd "obviously win" even funnier.
It's less that "Red doesn't exist" and more "Ash is this universe's version of Red". Ash and Red are different interpretations of the same character.
4:27 it’s interesting how in early Pokémon you could just fail & never get good. I heard somewhere that Ash’s dad and grampa tried to be trainers too & that’s why they’re not around. I get why something as depressing as career failure was cut from the show, but I think it should be talked about
They're hanging out with Tolkien's Blue Wizards.
I always assumed it was the guy who ditched his charmander, the other person who ditched their squirttle leading it to join the gang, and the girl that didn't have the skill to level her bulbasaur properly.
Ash collects all three starters from these trainers so I just assumed that these were the other 3 trainers from pallet even though they were never known where they were from but eh.
The squirtle went to Gary, though. The gang squirtle couldn't have been the starter squirtle.
@@Gomace did it? Dang okay I spaced. Lol
Not to mention if Bulbasaur and Charizard (Gary got Squirtle) that Ash got were professor Oaks he would have recognized them
@@williamgrippo6160 not really. for one, ash never stored his charmander with oak, so he wouldnt have seen it. as for bulbasaur, while it was abandoned, there's nothing with him that says he was owned in the first place.
it could've been that he was attacked by a trainer, who left him close to death, or was more cruel during the battle.
When Ash duels the samurai in the viridian forest the samurai has a flashback to being defeated by the other three starting trainers. Gary is one of them. So we know they at least made it through the forest.
My perspective is that the chance of inconsistensies in the story through-out the years, is far greater than the chance there is an actual solution to everything.
Thus I think the two trainers are simply supposed to be two generic trainers meant to be there for the sole purpose of giving the feeling of Ash having more rivals.
And to give more depth to the universe. Which he at some point surpasses and makes him appear stronger by comparison.
Red and Blue from Pokemon Origins are likely a completely re-imagined story from the anime. And are more accurate to the game timeline.
I don't think it has been intended for the games and anime to share characters at all outside of the Gym Leaders.
At least not up until newer games. In a rpg game, the character is most frequently portraied as yourself, not Ash & Gary or Red & Blue.
Those are simply prefix name options because they expected people might want to make it be more cohesive than it was. Nothing more than that.
It's never the less fun to investigate mysteries!
I just wanted to point out that illusions are used frequently in this type of media to give the viewer the intended feeling.
Reguardless of what this implies for the universe or the story.
9:26 surprise that made it to the final cut lol 😂
There is also a Bulbasaur in the crowd in the clip you showed from the breeding centers secret
At 13:45 you mention the charmander, to the right at he beginning of the shot is a squrtle, and right before cutting away we see the guy in black holding a bulbasaur with a mohawk.
14:33 There is also a boy with the yellow cap that's holding a Bulbasaur in his arms in the same episode.
There also was a Trainer holding a Bulbasaur next to the Trainer with its Charmander in Fashion Flash - so mybe it's them.
@11:19 10 badges? There's only 8 gyms.
Damien in the episode series and Cross in the I Choose You movie both refuses to take Charmander back for being weak.
In "Enter Pikachu!" (Pikachu is Born!) Pokémon Journeys: The Series [season 23 of Pokemon] has Pikachu's backstory as being a Pichu, that was being cared for by a Kangaskhan after falling off a cliff, and the events leading to his evolution into a Pikachu and eventually meeting Ash (Ash is only in the story because he was supposed to go to Pokémon summer camp when he was six years old, but slept in. Ash is then seen in a flashback to his first meeting with Pikachu.) So four years between Pichu being at the Summer Camp and Oak's Lab.
Great research! Was always wondering what we know about them! Thank you so so much for this video!!❤️🤗 New Sub here🤗