Sonic X-Treme is one of the most interesting stories in all of gaming. You have this game that was supposed to change the industry, only to be infamous for it's really awful development
@@segaunited3855 it sounds like a nightmarish mess, doesn't it? It doesn't sound like there was, at any point, any real coherent direction. They were working on the game as late as July, August, September 1996....With no finalized plot.
@@Bklyn93 It was. Sega of America never designed a MARS SDK. They had to rely on Genesis SDKs just to code Xtreme and other 32X titles. Also, keep in mind, Sega of America wasted ALL of 1994 on 32X alone. SOJ had no part in it, and wanted nothing to do with it. SOA ignored and avoided the Saturn because they didn't like the design. Only Kalinske knew its specs, no one else at SOA or Sega Amusements USA understood its documentation. CSK Holdings and Isao Okawa also helped SOA bankroll and Greenlight 32X overruling SEGA of Japan. Hayao Nakayama and the SEGA Chairboard had already voted "Nay" on the Genesis 32-X design in February 1994.
@@StuffWePlay so did I; Also, I once realized that I've never seen any documentary or just casual video about Sonic 1 GBA port development, only videos showing how bad it is. So I wish one of next Art of failure episodes can be about that game
This video is by far the biggest thing I've ever made. I began making all of the AOF episodes back in October 2018, with the first interview for this doc coming that month. This documentary took over a year and some to get out, and I hope it was worth it. I'm pretty sure Sonic X-Treme is cursed, as I ran into a host of issues while making this, including getting varying degrees of sick several times while working on it. That said, I'd like to thank all of the wonderful interviewees, voices actors, friends, and patrons who made this possible. After saying for months that it's still coming...it's finally here. As for what's next for me, I'm going to try to go back to more regular uploads. With that said, my next video will definitely not be nearly as big as this haha! If you enjoyed what you saw here, though, feel free to check me out on Patreon, especially as full, un-cut versions of AOF video interviews are there: www.patreon.com/stuffweplay
I've been searching for Sonic X-treme reviews and videos, and then I saw your video, more than an hour long and you uploaded 2 hours ago! Even though this is the first video I see from you (and that I just found you) I love this video! I think I'll check your channel out sometime :D
After watching this I'm so convinced that game was cursed. The title itself forbode an x-treme development. it nearly killed at least 2 people. Absolutely insane. Thank you so much for making such an in-depth doc!!!! And seems like a genuine shame too, the gameplay concept with the fisheye look and the boss battles look uniquely stylistic & impressive, and could have become a nostalgic game to remember at present day. But alas...
Seems like the Sonic series in the 90s had a ton of issues. Sonic 2 had to be rushed to make the deadline Sonic CD was delayed. Sonic 3 had to be split in two, and even then, had to be rushed a bit too. Sonic Spinball was basically there to fill a gap and wasn't great. Of course Sonic x-treme would suffer from a lot of issues, but this was brutal Had Naka not being an utter dick, the game could've been salvaged I think.
Sonic Extreme was Not very Well managed, and very understaffed for the 10 to 18 hours of daily work ... But what really killed the Game, was the Sega Japan Vs Sega America Feud ... The Nights Engine would have become a Savior of the Project ...
I imagine there's an alternate dimension where Sonic X-treme was never cancelled. The "Sonic the Hedgehog: Wonders of the World" movie would have been released as a tie-in, and Sega would still be making consoles alongside Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. Also, the "Sonic Christmas Blast" special would have retained its original title; "An X-Tremely Sonic Christmas".
Sonic has many "What if´s" and all of the didnt happened because of SEGA shit game management, sonic x-treme, 06, etc And if that games were well delivered the whole franchise would have changed.
I remember reading about this game in GamePro when I was a kid and then wondering why it never came out. Over the years, I've read about the story and watched clips of stuff on RUclips. This is definitely the most comprehensive video on the subject. Thank you for putting out such an awesome video!
I have to side with the animator that was fired just for standing up for his right to a fair work-life balance and that Wallis made him out to be a douchebag for it, especially with both the remaining project leads nearly working themselves to death over it and proving him right. That poor animator lost his job purely for insisting on not following stupid and self-destructive work ethic.
Yeah. Sega did not need to rush the game for a 1996 release date. Look how long Nintendo delays Mario games just for every minor detail. They had a small team trying to push a full blown 3D Sonic in a few months. If it came out in 1997, that would not of been a big problem. But... its Sega
It has less to do with the fact that he wanted a better work-life balance and more with the fact that he acted like a child in trying to make that point. He could have, at any point, asked to be assigned to another team and be upfront instead of walking out loudly during a meeting to make a point. This is how communicating works. Of course, I don't think they should have had to do crunch time at all. But ultimately Wallis didn't really have control over that, the animator making his stand did nothing except make himself feel better for a moment and (evidently) tick everyone else off. The fact that he was warned about crunch time beforehand and volunteered makes it hard to feel especially bad for him in particular.
A true sigma male. Having to deal with several restarts of the game and going through 2 consoles must have made him see the writing on wall unlike the others. I wouldn't care over this autism project at that point. Glad we can appreciate this animator with 20/20 hindsight.
This was seriously outstanding, James. I always stings in the heart to hear about the awful decisions of Sega in the mid-90s but Sonic X-Treme will always be one of the biggest “what if’s” in the history of the franchise. Thank you for this!
@@HEMPHILL23 Yes. They NEED to come out of retirement! Its been 19 years. That is our belief at Sega United, our belief at UNG and the way it should be is SEGA,Nintendo and Microsoft with SEGA and Nintendo being the two horse racers.
That Christina made the whole boss mechanics alone AND invented Z-targeting.... that’s something lol should’ve been there from the start, maybe it would get somewhere
@@m4gmaroni That's not happening, Ever. The Source code for Xtreme was destroyed by Bernie Stolar in 1997. So you can rule that out. The rest of your post is pretty hyperbolic and uninformed.Saturn has a Cult base, was a commercial hit in Japan, and did modestly well in Europe, it only underperformed in the US.
Personally, I don't think it was fair to fire the guy who didn't want to crunch too much time. Especially since it did turn out to be killing multiple people. No video game is worth that.
Thank you for tackling X-Treme. For being one of the most (if not THE most) famous cancelled games out there, I feel like most resources/articles on the thing fail to convey just how insane its development was.
I hope this video can serve as a major resource for this story. I hate to say it, but a lot of the popular X-Treme resources have info that, thanks to the interviews conducted and research done, I can confidently say are false or inaccurate
@@StuffWePlay I have a question: In the final thrust of development, was there ANY coherent plot for the game? Also, there's a lot of music that was created for the game - but what were the context of these music pieces? It's very confusing, I'm sorry. It's just...there was X or Y levels done in say, August 1996...But what were the context of those levels? What was the story they were working on in the last stage?
@@segaunited3855 How complete, in terms of an actual percentage, would you say the game was as of August 1996? I'm just asking because there doesn't seem to be any coherent design or idea, so I'm trying to get a picture of what the team was looking at in terms of an actual GAME in say, June, July 96. Also, I thought it wasn't officially cancelled until around Dec 96/Jan 97 when Chris etc became really ill?
@@Bklyn93 Michael Wallis the Executive Producer gave an interview with Eric Grey the admin of Sonic-Cult in October 2002 that he ordered the project to be canceled and personally told Bernie Stolar that Senn could not finish the game. He stated that the date was August of 1996. The Interview was conduced on WinAMP, a Pre Podcast Application that allowed audio frequency and Audio file Arranging during the Windows XP days in the Early 2000s.
@@StuffWePlay There are a few things you're a bit off in this video. Jupiter was not related to Saturn. It was a Lower End, Separate 32 bit project which would have combined System 32 with Model 1 3D Technology. It was in development in 1992-1993 at Sega Away in Japan and Sega Amusements USA in North America. It was also Cartridge Based only. It was scrapped in 1993, not '94. It was scrapped due for 2 reasons Kalinske had shared documentation and blueprints with Sony after Sony got involved with manufacturing Sega CD in the US. Sony took that information, claimed they would be ready to pitch it to SOJ with SOA in March 1993, and then instead, RAN off with the specs. It became the PSX. Model 1 was a Commercial Failure in Japan. It was first unveiled at the JAEPO/JAMMA Tradeshow in Japan in July 1993 and was met with absolute lukewarm reception. SEGA of Japan abandoned Model 1, thus decided to scrap Jupiter, to save time and have the new Mega Drive successor out for 1994, Jupiter Phase 2 was combined with a Top Secret Project at AM2 codenamed "Aurora" it was named "Saturn". Saturn WAS Cartridge Based much like Jupiter, as the CD-ROM was added on to its design at the last minute as an afterthought. Model 2 was a runaway success in Japan. Kalinske Pitched the SGI chipset called "G64" to SEGA of Japan in late 1993. Kalinske had personal meetings with Hayao Nakayama. Nakayama told Kalinske that SEGA couldn't go with the G64 built because they had already spent too much money on other chipsets. Nakayama then revealed Saturn for the first time to Kalinske and had him sign an NDA and it was NAKAYAMA, Not Kalinske who suggested G64 be pitched to Nintendo. They heard Nintendo was having problems due to Sony gossiping and causing OEM deals to be shut by yellow gossiping to other manufacturers about doing business with Nintendo. Kalinske confirmed this in person to our affiliates MKing in 2017. And finally, PS1 is WEAKER than Saturn. FAR weaker. Saturn's Tradesecrets are finally coming out. The Machine was TWICE the power of PS1 capable of 64-bit DMA and was BETTER at 3D because it utilized Mapping and Texturing 3D Capabilities. Saturn's Documentation wasn't known yet at the time in late '94 as SOJ wasn't ready to send the tools to 3rd party developers. Same thing happened with Nintendo Ultra 64. Both Consoles were a bit of a Cakewalk to learn at first. So they weren't hard to develop for, the tools just weren't ready yet.
He's so casual about it... like the guy who refuses to put his health at risk is the bad guy... wtf is this shit? How tf are there people with such disregard for fucking researched fact into what overworking does to our mental health that they fucking blame the victim? I am so fucking disgusted with the world right now and it just keeps getting worse every moment as more skeletons pile up on the floor.
@@PathBeyondTheDark Its not bad to look at things more "realistically", but your just overlooking all of the good stuff in the world. Technically the world is wayyy better off than it was 50 years ago and statistics actually prove it. I understand looking at what's going on now and then are 2 different scenarios, but seriously you gotta look at the bigger picture. You say that we should just live in a fantasy world while you live in the "real" one, but maybe the same applies to you.
Some people have a mental illness where they not only defend wageslavery but actively resist those who refuse to take part in it. This is why unions exist.
This is definitely the best piece I've saw about Sonic X-treme. The amount of work and research put into this is visibly astonishing. I'm searching things about this game for years and much of the details in here were new to me. Congratulations!
So there was a ring throw move in the Sonic 3 prototype, and now there was one planned in Sonic X-treme? That's crazy. I've wanted a video like this for so long, thank you for making this!
Thanks for allowing me to be part as the...British narrator lol. AOF has been without a doubt one of the best series the gaming community has ever had. The polish is unreal!
I've watched many presentations on sonic xtreme and the saturn. I have to say, this was by far the best put together and well executed presentation on the subject that I have seen. Kudos.
Xtreme never had a full running Beta on Saturn hardware. Its why Willis and Senn were using the Nights engine. ALL Demos you see are source codes from Mars hardware being ported over to Saturn.
It really is baffling how splintered and unfocused Sega was during this time. It seems like so much could have been solved by a more straightforward business model, i.e. just focusing on a couple of consoles and not having so many dev teams.
Really makes you think and imagine the possibilities. Sometimes I wonder if they would've seen more success if they went for a more rail-style game, like Sonic and the Secret Rings. With a fixed camera they could've had the potential to put less strain on the console. The concepts they had would've made for good bonus levels, and the boss engine would've been good to mix up the game from the rail-based levels. It is what it is, I suppose.
I'd argue it was a strength and weakness, not a new thing either. Their arcade divisions had always acted as pretty independent entities, the problem was egos and in-fighting. Two perfect examples? Nakayama vehemently opposed Sonic 1 becoming the new pack-in, and not to mention... Surprise launch of the Saturn in the US was his idea, to beat Sony to market. Kalinske was forced EDIT: And an extra? The infamous 2 CPU setup was his kneejerk demand to beat the PSX's power
I think it's because each Sega branch tried to run the company like a regional/local business instead of a global one, and the branches competed against each other rather than assisted each other. The SNES & Genesis were still getting 66% of console sales until 1996. With the bulk of the success being in the US, but the Genesis being weak in Japan. So you have Sega of America who saw supporting the Genesis as the big money maker,. Sega of Japan who thought a new console was the right way forward, but only to boost market share in Japan rather than to compete with the SNES or PS1 on a global scale. The Saturn was successful in Japan due to a focus on arcade-style titles, but sold terribly in the west because people wanted more home-console focused gameplay which the PS1 and N64 were delivering. And as shown in the video you had Japanese Sega developers like Yuji Naka outraged and trying to stop American Sega developers from using his nIGHTS engine to make a Sonic Xtreme, despite the fact they're literally members of the exact same company and if the game came out in 1996 as intended, it would have helped the Saturn compete against the likes of Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot which both helped sell millions of Nintendo 64s and PS1s.
I give this video a 299 out of 10 😎 Thank you so much again for such a detailed documentary on video game history. I didn't even know about the game called Sonic X-Treme until you announced this doc in the works. The console wars of the 90's were such a fascinating time. I was just a bit too young/sheltered to understand how crazy it was at the time.
Haha thank you tons! It's really crazy to see how this all played out! Seeing how this one is doing pretty well, maybe at some point, I'll dive in and cover another Sonic game's development. Perhaps I could do a definitive look at the Sonic 3-Michael Jackson story?
This needs 1M views. I thoroughly enjoyed the storytelling, compassion and detail put into this documentary about something on the surface that wouldn’t seem compelling.
To Me, Robert Morgan will Always be the REAL culprit behind Sonic X-treme's cancellation since HE was the one who REFUSED to give Chris Senn And Ofer Alon a Saturn devkit to help with the game's development. as well as bringing in his buddies from Point of View to make the Crummy build That was shown to Nakayama. Too bad a LOT of people don't know about that little tidbit, though.
Oh my gosh, this is such an interesting documentary about this game. This video is honestly the most info I've gotten on Sonic X-Treme! Thank you for making this video! I wish that it had been released! I personally LOVE the use of the fish-eye lens, as it would have been one of a kind!
I've been really enjoying this documentary so far and love the amount of work you put into it. Getting those interviews with old employees is a killer move and shows you actually did some original research. Very few video game video essays do this. Loving the camerawork too. I hate to be that guy though. Your date for Kalinske's surprise launch reveal at E3 appears to be incorrect. The text in your doc says July 8th, 1995. But most sources show this happened on May 11th.
Thank you! And you're absolutely right. I accidentally put the European release date instead of the North American date and hadn't noticed. Gonna heart this comment so that people see this
Stuff We Play That’s a perfectly reasonable mix up. I just finished watching and the rest of this completely outshines that tiny nitpick. It’s crazy that Naka’s golden boy attitude kept them from using the NiGHTS engine, on top of everything else. What a development hell trip.
The guy talking bad about someone that „only“ works 10 hours, should apologize to him. As the manager he was responsible for the health and also mindset and it seems, it was toxic. For me, the worst a manager could be and it seems, he didn’t learn anything- also after they got sick. If everyone would have worked a healthy overtime, they would have more time spend on the game at the end. Something, a good manager has in mind.
I wholeheartedly agree, but I guess there was nothing that Wallace (the guy who fired him) could do since this was an effect of trickle down toxic work culture. Those higher up than him were pressing the ultimatum of "get this done in this time frame or your career is ruined", so everyone not on board with the crunch was probably seen as a threat to work security: "It's either me or him" mentality. Really, really toxic place to work in.
The funniest thing about the E3 footage, is all the E3 '96 footage came from a French VHS tape that apparently could only be gotten through mail order! It was both incredibly odd and incredibly fascinating lol
I personally think that some ideas from Sonic Xtreme, mainly the new characters written for the game, like Tiara and Gazebo, could probably be incorporated into the next main Sonic game.
32:56 "Who got along really well with...KRYSSEN?" I forgot I was there hanging with the US Sonic team. Honestly, I have never heard a name similar to mine mentioned in a video before, so this stuck out to me.
30:38 ...It sold poorly because it was on The 32x. That's it. The biggest mistakes Sega made were the addons for the Genesis, and switching the release date of the Saturn. Had they held firm to their release date, and dropped the price of the Genesis the year before the Saturn launch, they would have faired much better. The only thing that would have saved the Dreamcast is if they had gone with the DVD drive. Then, SEGA would have been able to hold onto its market share. That DVD drive is what sold so many PS2's.
That was one hell of a fascinating watch, I have to say!! Very impressive and informative. I never knew all these little aspects of the story behind this game's development.
Very informative and entertaining documentary of Sonic, Sega, STI, and Xtreme! I followed the game but this program informed me of much I didn't know. Thanks for the show!
This video, simply put, is absolutely fantastic! The amount of research, time, and care you put into this video makes this, in my opinion, easily the best video about Sonic X-Treme on RUclips! Having discovered your channel through this video (as Sonic X-Treme has always been a source of endless fascination for me), I look forward to your future 'Art of Failure' videos! Great work once again!
Amazing documentary! A facinacting insight into the game dev process. I did however want to point out, 59:55 in partciluar. Yes, that animator seemingly wasnt a team player, but I think it speaks volumes to the mistreatment of game developers that he was fired for putting his foot down and refusing to crunch. Seems the industry has hardly changed in that regard.
This game was dead on the spot the moment development started. The concept never seemed good imo. Especially when you put it next to likes of Mario 64, Crash and Tomb Raider.
Fantastic work. Thank you for all your effort in putting this together. Really great to gain this level of insight into possibly the most mysterious Sonic game. What a shame they didn’t get another year after being told to make the game look like the boss demo. A late game is better than no game, right?
The reason "Sonic the Hedgehog: Wonders of the World" could never take off on production, casting, filming and only a small synopsis was because Sonic X-Treme failed to meet a deadline and release, thus increasing problems further as the plot of the film would emphasize in this particular Sonic game as a way of marketing. That's my hypothesis on this whole thing. Now on the video. Very well written and informative! Amazing job, man. Congrats.
@@StuffWePlay If they knew about Lion Mane Mushroom and other herbs that boast immune systems by a lot and other body systems! Then could have hang in their more only did this head of time before development! Well the development team for Sonic Xtreme! Well by having more healthy life style while working for that amount while mediating deeply for 6 hours! So I think while project failed also is because, they're lacking proper health knowledge and relaxation techniques! Well and other could have taken golden root& echinacea heard for only 8 weeks! Well for a least in a advance before even, the development to prevent from them from getting sick! Maybe they could take Blazing Mushroom even too, if that would be safe to mix with it. If I would have birth back then, and I was on team well then I would been there best defense against getting burned out or if my outside education information had reached them!
Holy shit, what a vid. You don’t have enough views for all the work you must have put into this. Great job; I’d love to see more documentaries from you, and I hope it gets picked up more.
At the time I started writing this, it's near the end of the holiday season, around Christmas: the planned release time frame for Sonic X-treme. A year later, and no other Sonic X-treme documentary video has topped this one; probably *the best* documentary of this game I've seen to date. Late to the party on this . . . *very.* I remember composing a long passionate comment on your Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric episode of Art of Failure; expressing my fasination towards that game & my apologetic passion towards the Sonic Boom subset franchise as a hole, while looking forward to this episode on Sonic X-treme. So. . .I'm gonna do the same thing here, because. . .man. I have *a lot* of passionate thing to say about this game. *Long passionate comment incoming* Sonic X-treme is a game that *really* fasinates me; a game that contains out-of-the-box ideas & concepts that could've made a one-of-a kind experience, especially for Sonic first leap into the 3rd dimension. But basically do to internal politics within SEGA that lead to a hellish development cycle, the game was never meant to be. It was so cool of you to actually go the extra mile to interview Chris Sean and Mike Wallis for this video to add extra clarity to certain events of X-treme's development. It's quite a shame, really. When I said that it contains out-of-the-box ideas & concepts that could've made a one-of-a-kind experience, I really mean it. I disappoints me that some scoff at the game by judging it from early prototypes of the game; saying that it would've been nauseating to play with the fish-eye lens. People forget that a lot can greatly change fast in development, even in just either in a month or more. Take the SonicDEMO96/4Worlds build by Chris Sean & Ofer Alon for example; compare that to earlier builds of the game that are now available to the public, and you can see a stark difference. And it was confirmed by Sean that the game was only about 60% complete. If the game was given enough time to be completed, the game probably would of been very different than what we've seen of it. I personally think that this game could've been really good. Despite what some will say, but the fish-eye lens I think is a cool idea; a novel solution to 2D games of the past by having the ability to see most of your surroundings in the level. For a fast moving character like Sonic, it would've been a tremendous help to see incoming obstacles up 'n down 'n all around (referencetotallyintended). The anti-gravity/"World Rotation" gimmick that was also planned for this game would've been also fun to play around with as well. Judging by the latest known build of the game that I mentioned earlier, the game looked to be like a combination of both it's would've-been competition, Super Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot, in terms of how the levels in that build were put together. Super Mario 64 was a fully 3D game, where you can control Mario in a fully 3D environment, while Crash Bandicoot was more confined in a hallway, while switching to 2.5D in occasion. Sonic X-treme looked like it does both these things: semi open 3D environments with a hint of 2.5D elements. Seeing all of the known plans and ambitions for this game, if only development went more smoothly than it did. And even if it did, could this game saved the SEGA Saturn in the west? In reality, we don't know for sure, but if I had to guess based on my own thoughts on the game. . .maybe. History has told us that once Sonic graced the SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive in the west, it pretty much helped the console skyrocket in sales to the point of having SEGA beating Nintendo for a while. So it would've been plausible that lighting would've struck in the bottle twice for SEGA, have they had Sonic X-treme been completed more smoothly and on time for the Saturn during the holiday season. Man. . .this game. . . If only. . . I would've loved to play it, and experience what it could've offered. You know. . .it would be cool to see this game get revived. Think about it. Since now that the Sonic franchise has been split into a few pillars, the most notable being "Classic" Sonic and "Modern" Sonic, I would say it isn't too far fetched to do something like this, if you see where I'm going with this. I would say the *best* example to use for a potential revival of Sonic X-treme is a fan project named *Project AXSX* . A fangame that has been in development for almost 15 years and still going strong, created by Andrew75 (one of the guys who are responsible of uncovering the prototypes of recent memory that were shown off in this video, fun fact.), that aims to re-create Sonic X-treme as if to how it could of been possibility like if it was finished. Out of all the Sonic X-treme fangames out there, this is the absolute *best* one to date. The overall slow but steady progress it has made over the years is an absolute marvel, and I *highly* recommend checking it out and giving it the upmost support for those who are greatly fasinated towards Sonic X-treme as I am. As much as I hate the implications if this notion, I must admit. . .it's one of those fangames that are too good to *NOT* be official, I feel. It's that good, I think. So yeah. . .just a cool thought that I think could actually happen, but hey. . .a man can dream, can he? Thank you for making this rock solid documentary. Hope you had a Merry Christmas. . .and a Happy (andhopefully better) New Year!
@@StuffWePlay Too bad you didn't mention the Jupiter was which eventually stolen by Sony and became the PSX. I understand that you would though, SEGA had THREE 5th Gen Projects going on during the Early 90s.
Great job on this! This vid is way better at explaining Sonic Xtreme than anything else I've seen outside of really digging deep into stuff the actual devs have said etc.
This video was incredibly put together. Bravo, and here’s hoping to WAY more views and subscribers in the future. Seriously, this video helped me contextualize the game in a whole new way.
One must also keep in mind that Sega was still producing GameGear games, they seriously over saturated their market in their own company at a critical time. They didn’t stop producing Genesis games until ‘98.
And many of those genesis games were still selling very well. In fact, their football game sold just over one million copies that year. IIRC, Genesis sold more games every single year in North America until everything went on clearance around 1998-99.
I love this video so much. Great job. I think this is the 3rd time I’ve watched this and I always get something new from it. Have you played Balan Wonderland yet? Maybe Sega should have let them have the nights engine
Thank you so so much! I haven't had a chance to play Balan Wonderworld yet - admittedly, initial reviews have me wanting to wait until it's gotten a steep price cut haha
It's pretty shocking how much work they put in and for how long this game was in development for, to see what actually was left of the game at the end. It looks like it was no where near close to being finished.
It didn't seem that bad judgeing by the demonstration demos, but overall it all just spiraled into absolute development hell, who knew that one game could almost break apart half an entire development team?
Also, I wonder if Yuji Naka did that on purpose. NiGhts succeeding more than the sonic Saturn title kinda seems like he was really wanting his new game to outshine Sonic(I mean SOnic isn't even really his) and since the team was, obviously, needing serious help purposely denied it to them knowing they would either make a inferior game or fail completely.
Sonic is his, he designed the gameplay of Sonic, which is just as important as his design. I think Naka was fed up with SEGA's management over the years, he knew whatever was going to be made in a few months was going to be utter garbage. It's completely justified that he would want Sonic Team to develop the first 3D Sonic game, considering they pioneered the franchise in the first place. This game was not meant to be, and should have never been pitched and is the result of massive distress to many developers.
It's honestly incredible how after the absolute epiphanies that were the mainline Sonic games on the Genesis and Sega CD, that Sega would give some random people without any experience with Sonic free reign to develop a follow-up. I'm no fan of sports, but imagine the New England Patriots winning the World Series (I said I'm not a fan) and then replacing every team member the next year and vying for the Triple Crown that upcoming year as well. Notice also that the average number of staff of a random franchise location of Burger King is as large or larger than the number of people who worked on Sonic Xtreme. Sonic Xtreme is a curiosity, but it was never going to be great. And the reason is that SEGA didn't really care...just as appears to be the case now in late 2020, when no follow-up to Sonic Mania has shown up on the radar. If in 2021, for Sonic's 30th birthday, there is no follow-up to Sonic Mania (with all new levels, and designed by the same Sonic Mania team), you will know that Sega is still just as stupid and inept as they have been since 1994.
Exactly. Sega was handed a godsend of a mascot -- literally just as recognizable as Mario, Mickey Mouse, and Ronald McDonald, but somehow they managed to fuck it up by just not caring enough. They had a priceless gem and they treat it well for a few years before getting cocky and letting it all go downhill, and they still do to this day. I don't get it. If it weren't for Sonic, Sega would have gone the way of Atari a long time ago. They should treat the series with way more care; go back to treating it like a first party developer and not a company looking for a quick buck.
If they could've delayed to at least mid-1997, the game could've had a chance That would give the developers time to recover from their conditions But then again, by mid-1997, development for the Dreamcast we're beginning and they decided to move to the Dreamcast
Great documentary, thanks so much. Mario 64/Goldeneye/Zelda basically sold the N64... So it's hard not to see that a few quality sonic titles and a streets of a rage could have put the Saturn on a very different course and offer something the PS1 couldn't. The guy who got fired seems to be the only voice of reason in the team, key members worked themselves into illness with stupidly long shifts. Also very selfish/stupid of the Nights producer not to lend the engine from Nights; would have saved the project.
So ridiculous how SoA and SoJ weren't "on the same page" about something as pivotal as what console was the successor to the Genesis. If they wouldn't have treated each other as separate entities so much and cooperated, they could have skipped the 32x and focused on the Saturn and getting the right titles to launch for the NA release. And why was SoA looking into a new console knowing the Saturn just came out in Japan? So strange.
Because SOA really hated the Saturn’s architecture. They predicted that it would hobble long term third party support. And in fairness, they weren’t wrong. The Saturn’s architecture was an absolute mess.
I held out for years hoping that someday, a near finished build of Sonic Xtreme would see the light of day, but going off of this documentary, you come to realize that the game never even came close to reaching a finished state, and was basically a crazy-quilt of directionless and gimmicky ideas and a doomed concept from start to finish. It just doesnt look appealing or that fun to play, and doesnt capture the feeling of playing as Sonic in 3D at all. I cant believe Sega thought this game even had a prayer of competing with Mario 64 or Crash Bandicoot when the gameplay and graphics were barely a step ahead of Bug! (which, oddly enough, was planned as a 3D Sonic game very early on). Even Sonic 3D Blast felt more cohesive and truer to the Genesis games in comparison! So yeah, with due respect to the team who busted their butts off on it, this project absolutely deserved to be put out of its misery. Also, how ironic is it that the "asshole animator" turned out to be the closest thing to a voice of reason in that mess and actually lucked out by getting fired from that sinking ship? Its really disgusting how "Crunch culture" is treated as a normal thing in the video game business. :(
I'm kind of on the side of the guy who got fired. No game or job is worth risking your health or personal life for. You're not going to do your best work if you're physically and mentally exhausted.
Once the current pandemic clears up, I'm actually hoping to create a theatrical feature documentary based off of this story, centred more on the POVs of Chris Senn and Christina Coffin! Of course, that's on the backburner for now due to current events
23:14 Fun fact for those who mightn't know; the Sega Neptune is represented in the form of Neptune from the Neptunia games. If you've never played them, all the characters are reps of various consoles, the main ones aside from Nep being: Noire of Lastation (PlayStation) Blanc of Lowee (Wii) Vert of Leanbox (Xbox) They also have younger sisters who represent the handheld consoles (except Vert because Xbox don't have any handhelds). Nepgear is the Game Gear, Uni is PSP, and the twins Ram and Rom rep the DS and it's dual screens. Sorry for the info overload, I just really love those games 😅
It was a whirlwind of bad decisions and situations. I ended up having the impression that the X-treme Team wasn’t aware they had 3D Blast as a ‘Plan B’. If so, would they give up a little bit earlier?
So the animator expressing concern that the team was working themselves to an unhealthy degree was a "douchebag" move? He was an "ass" for being unwilling to endanger his own mental/physical well-being? If only he'd lost 25 pounds through extreme stress and pushed himself to death's door through overwork he could've kept his job? Hmm...
I just loved everything in this video. At this day i still remember being amazed by Sonic X-treme and today i decided to do nothing but watch this amazing video, i just didnt know what dumpster fire the development was. Maybe im a little ignorant but seeing women make and be an important member of a development team specially before 2010 is just wonderful. I'm subscribing ofc, great work!
I empathise with these developers. I really do. SEGA had such a lack of cohesive management throughout its company, and you can tell that, were this team working under better circumstances, they could have created a Saturn game so good that SEGA would work even harder to emulate the Saturn to preserve those games. What irritates me even more, however, is hearing that Yuji Naka, a developer I've had a lot of respect for due to all his accomplishments, wouldn't allow his game engine for Nights to be used on Sonic Xtreme when that team desperately needed it. How selfish and conceited do you have to be to not allow a game engine your company owns, NOT you, to aid a development team whose key members are working themselves to death? Okay, fine, he presumably created it. We all know that, so there's his recognition. But it's not like Yuji hadn't been reaping the rewards of it anyway, given the critical and commercial acclaim Nights had garnered. As someone who has worked in the industry for a brief time, I just can't wrap my head around what Yuji Naka did, especially considering how difficult it can be to create and finish a game for commercial release. They were part of the same company, and he couldn't do that much for them? Not even offer words of encouragement for people with a strong passion for his gaming creation, wanting to bring that legacy to the third dimension? I remember when Hideo Kojima had left Konami and worked on Death Stranding with his team of developers, and Sony encouraged him to visit their other developers. That visit paid off, because when he spoke with the Guerrilla Games developers, they insisted on giving him their game engine. Since he couldn't use the Fox Die engine his team created for MGSV, you can imagine how helpful that would have been for him.
You unfortunately are uniformed and are completely wrong. And don't know anything about the WHOLE story and the actual truth. You owe Yuji Naka and apology as well. Keep in Mind, Nights was NOT a Critical and Commercial success in North America. You also need to keep in Mind that Nights was released AFTER Xtreme was scrapped. Sir, your post sounds extremely misdirected and misguided. You should study Game Engine Patent Rights and COPYRIGHTS.
@@segaunited3855 Wow, what crawled up your arse and died? You sound like a brown-nosing politician or hack lawyer who will excuse any scummy or counter-intuitive business practice in defense of your corporate daddies at SEGA. You could have simply corrected me and outlined my mistakes with proof, but you instead decided to resort to insults and patronising monologues. If this is the response you give to people instead of helping them understand the situation in a less condescending manner, then expect a response from me in kind. I watched the full video twice in my free time before I ever saw your sorry excuse of a reply, and my point still stands. Just because Yuji Naka had some form of patent on Nights' game engine, doesn't mean he should have outright denied its use by his own peers within the company. That's basic human decency. Royalties to him would have sufficed if it was a transaction he was not made aware of. You might think you owned someone for wasting so much time on semantics about SEGA, but all you have proven today is that you are a disturbed individual who expects me to apologise to Yuji Naka for expressing my honest opinion about the situation. I respect what he has accomplished, but you are having a laugh if you honestly expect me to take any of your immature , butthurt demands seriously. I've met Nintendo and Sony apologists who are less pathetic than you. Get a life outside of your SEGA bubble, and do something more productive with it than proving to everyone what a bitter, obsessive lolcow you are.
Yikes... the health problems are scary. They wanted to be apart of this revolutionary game so bad, but it was killing them. They probably used uppers too.
Holy shit, this project almost killed two people and this Mike character is still like “only working 10 hour days is for assholes.” Toxic work culture literally kills people. Game devs, and workers in general, should unionize.
Sonic X-Treme is one of the most interesting stories in all of gaming. You have this game that was supposed to change the industry, only to be infamous for it's really awful development
And the development was far from rushed, either! Just lots went wrong which led to an insane crunch!
Development of X-treme wasn't rushed sir. This project lasted 3 years and two platforms before it was finally scrapped.
@@StuffWePlay Also, Sonic Pool? Remember that? the FULL 3D Sonic Saturn project that nobody really wanted to work on?
@@segaunited3855 it sounds like a nightmarish mess, doesn't it? It doesn't sound like there was, at any point, any real coherent direction. They were working on the game as late as July, August, September 1996....With no finalized plot.
@@Bklyn93 It was. Sega of America never designed a MARS SDK. They had to rely on Genesis SDKs just to code Xtreme and other 32X titles.
Also, keep in mind, Sega of America wasted ALL of 1994 on 32X alone. SOJ had no part in it, and wanted nothing to do with it. SOA ignored and avoided the Saturn because they didn't like the design. Only Kalinske knew its specs, no one else at SOA or Sega Amusements USA understood its documentation.
CSK Holdings and Isao Okawa also helped SOA bankroll and Greenlight 32X overruling SEGA of Japan. Hayao Nakayama and the SEGA Chairboard had already voted "Nay" on the Genesis 32-X design in February 1994.
I don't care what anyone else says. This was a good use of an hour of my Saturday night lol.
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
RUclips & Chill
@@StuffWePlay so did I;
Also, I once realized that I've never seen any documentary or just casual video about Sonic 1 GBA port development, only videos showing how bad it is. So I wish one of next Art of failure episodes can be about that game
Saturnday night you say 👀
Bruh it’s such a coincidence I’m on a Saturday at night watching
This video is by far the biggest thing I've ever made. I began making all of the AOF episodes back in October 2018, with the first interview for this doc coming that month. This documentary took over a year and some to get out, and I hope it was worth it. I'm pretty sure Sonic X-Treme is cursed, as I ran into a host of issues while making this, including getting varying degrees of sick several times while working on it.
That said, I'd like to thank all of the wonderful interviewees, voices actors, friends, and patrons who made this possible. After saying for months that it's still coming...it's finally here.
As for what's next for me, I'm going to try to go back to more regular uploads. With that said, my next video will definitely not be nearly as big as this haha! If you enjoyed what you saw here, though, feel free to check me out on Patreon, especially as full, un-cut versions of AOF video interviews are there: www.patreon.com/stuffweplay
I've been searching for Sonic X-treme reviews and videos, and then I saw your video, more than an hour long and you uploaded 2 hours ago! Even though this is the first video I see from you (and that I just found you) I love this video! I think I'll check your channel out sometime :D
Thank you for letting us patreons help out too! I can't wait to see what else you have in plan in the future!
I'm glad y'all really enjoyed it! I hope this video was not only entertaining but serves as a good resource on X-Treme's development as well!
After watching this I'm so convinced that game was cursed. The title itself forbode an x-treme development. it nearly killed at least 2 people. Absolutely insane. Thank you so much for making such an in-depth doc!!!!
And seems like a genuine shame too, the gameplay concept with the fisheye look and the boss battles look uniquely stylistic & impressive, and could have become a nostalgic game to remember at present day. But alas...
Thank you for this presentation ... : )
Seems like the Sonic series in the 90s had a ton of issues.
Sonic 2 had to be rushed to make the deadline
Sonic CD was delayed.
Sonic 3 had to be split in two, and even then, had to be rushed a bit too.
Sonic Spinball was basically there to fill a gap and wasn't great.
Of course Sonic x-treme would suffer from a lot of issues, but this was brutal
Had Naka not being an utter dick, the game could've been salvaged I think.
also don't forget that Sonic 3 was an unfinished mess in a LATE BETA state
Sonic Extreme was Not very Well managed, and very understaffed for the 10 to 18 hours of daily work ...
But what really killed the Game, was the Sega Japan Vs Sega America Feud ...
The Nights Engine would have become a Savior of the Project ...
@@serenemountain6769 Nope. That's not what killed it.
Sega were a lot more focused on 2 so they gave CD devs a lot of time and freedom.
2 was going to have time travel but it was scrapped due to time constraints, but CD had 2 years until deadline so they added that in
I imagine there's an alternate dimension where Sonic X-treme was never cancelled. The "Sonic the Hedgehog: Wonders of the World" movie would have been released as a tie-in, and Sega would still be making consoles alongside Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft. Also, the "Sonic Christmas Blast" special would have retained its original title; "An X-Tremely Sonic Christmas".
FlyingDuckMan360
Then Tiara would replace Amy
Or perhaps be Amy’s frienemy since Amy Debuted in CD
Sonic has many "What if´s" and all of the didnt happened because of SEGA shit game management, sonic x-treme, 06, etc
And if that games were well delivered the whole franchise would have changed.
Sounds a bit like heaven to me
Me too
Sonic Wonders of the World? Sounds like Sonic Unleashed to me
I remember reading about this game in GamePro when I was a kid and then wondering why it never came out. Over the years, I've read about the story and watched clips of stuff on RUclips. This is definitely the most comprehensive video on the subject. Thank you for putting out such an awesome video!
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Game almost killed the development team. Now THAT’S Xtreme!
It Did.
I have to side with the animator that was fired just for standing up for his right to a fair work-life balance and that Wallis made him out to be a douchebag for it, especially with both the remaining project leads nearly working themselves to death over it and proving him right.
That poor animator lost his job purely for insisting on not following stupid and self-destructive work ethic.
Yeah. Sega did not need to rush the game for a 1996 release date. Look how long Nintendo delays Mario games just for every minor detail. They had a small team trying to push a full blown 3D Sonic in a few months. If it came out in 1997, that would not of been a big problem. But... its Sega
Not working overtime is fine and all but walking out of a meeting like that is rude.
It has less to do with the fact that he wanted a better work-life balance and more with the fact that he acted like a child in trying to make that point. He could have, at any point, asked to be assigned to another team and be upfront instead of walking out loudly during a meeting to make a point. This is how communicating works.
Of course, I don't think they should have had to do crunch time at all. But ultimately Wallis didn't really have control over that, the animator making his stand did nothing except make himself feel better for a moment and (evidently) tick everyone else off. The fact that he was warned about crunch time beforehand and volunteered makes it hard to feel especially bad for him in particular.
@@littletiffany9089 worst of all,an team that pretty much had no experience at all with 3d.
it was just an trainwreck.
A true sigma male. Having to deal with several restarts of the game and going through 2 consoles must have made him see the writing on wall unlike the others. I wouldn't care over this autism project at that point. Glad we can appreciate this animator with 20/20 hindsight.
As a teen waiting desperately for this games release, hearing the full story is heartbreaking.
This was seriously outstanding, James. I always stings in the heart to hear about the awful decisions of Sega in the mid-90s but Sonic X-Treme will always be one of the biggest “what if’s” in the history of the franchise. Thank you for this!
Thank YOU for being a part of this dude! I'm really glad I had the chance to tell this story
Has anyone here ever heard of the Beach Boys SMILE?
Don't blame SEGA. NEVER Blame SEGA. They didn't make the final decisions. CSK Holdings did.
@@segaunited3855 Then maybe Sega should revisit this. Again, has ANYONE heard of the Beach Boys' SMILE?!
@@HEMPHILL23 Yes. They NEED to come out of retirement! Its been 19 years. That is our belief at Sega United, our belief at UNG and the way it should be is SEGA,Nintendo and Microsoft with SEGA and Nintendo being the two horse racers.
That Christina made the whole boss mechanics alone AND invented Z-targeting.... that’s something lol should’ve been there from the start, maybe it would get somewhere
If they ever make a SEGA Saturn mini They should finish sonic x-treme like how Nintendo finished Star Fox 2 for the snes mini
Xtreme was NEVER,EVER meant for Saturn. Period.
That's a reaally big If
@@m4gmaroni That's not happening, Ever. The Source code for Xtreme was destroyed by Bernie Stolar in 1997. So you can rule that out.
The rest of your post is pretty hyperbolic and uninformed.Saturn has a Cult base, was a commercial hit in Japan, and did modestly well in Europe, it only underperformed in the US.
Star fox 2 was already finished
Nintendo just translated the game for the snes mini
I wanna try it sooooo bad
Personally, I don't think it was fair to fire the guy who didn't want to crunch too much time. Especially since it did turn out to be killing multiple people. No video game is worth that.
No video game is worth dying over
@@StuffWePlay
Not even the best?
Jk
Thank you for tackling X-Treme. For being one of the most (if not THE most) famous cancelled games out there, I feel like most resources/articles on the thing fail to convey just how insane its development was.
I hope this video can serve as a major resource for this story. I hate to say it, but a lot of the popular X-Treme resources have info that, thanks to the interviews conducted and research done, I can confidently say are false or inaccurate
@@StuffWePlay I have a question: In the final thrust of development, was there ANY coherent plot for the game? Also, there's a lot of music that was created for the game - but what were the context of these music pieces?
It's very confusing, I'm sorry. It's just...there was X or Y levels done in say, August 1996...But what were the context of those levels? What was the story they were working on in the last stage?
@@Bklyn93 August is when Xtreme was canceled altogether. Wallis confirmed that date to Sonic-Cult in October of 2002.
@@segaunited3855 How complete, in terms of an actual percentage, would you say the game was as of August 1996? I'm just asking because there doesn't seem to be any coherent design or idea, so I'm trying to get a picture of what the team was looking at in terms of an actual GAME in say, June, July 96.
Also, I thought it wasn't officially cancelled until around Dec 96/Jan 97 when Chris etc became really ill?
@@Bklyn93 Michael Wallis the Executive Producer gave an interview with Eric Grey the admin of Sonic-Cult in October 2002 that he ordered the project to be canceled and personally told Bernie Stolar that Senn could not finish the game. He stated that the date was August of 1996. The Interview was conduced on WinAMP, a Pre Podcast Application that allowed audio frequency and Audio file Arranging during the Windows XP days in the Early 2000s.
When do we get this in theaters?
It means a ton to hear that dude!
@@StuffWePlay There are a few things you're a bit off in this video.
Jupiter was not related to Saturn. It was a Lower End, Separate 32 bit project which would have combined System 32 with Model 1 3D Technology. It was in development in 1992-1993 at Sega Away in Japan and Sega Amusements USA in North America. It was also Cartridge Based only.
It was scrapped in 1993, not '94. It was scrapped due for 2 reasons Kalinske had shared documentation and blueprints with Sony after Sony got involved with manufacturing Sega CD in the US. Sony took that information, claimed they would be ready to pitch it to SOJ with SOA in March 1993, and then instead, RAN off with the specs. It became the PSX.
Model 1 was a Commercial Failure in Japan. It was first unveiled at the JAEPO/JAMMA Tradeshow in Japan in July 1993 and was met with absolute lukewarm reception. SEGA of Japan abandoned Model 1, thus decided to scrap Jupiter, to save time and have the new Mega Drive successor out for 1994, Jupiter Phase 2 was combined with a Top Secret Project at AM2 codenamed "Aurora" it was named "Saturn". Saturn WAS Cartridge Based much like Jupiter, as the CD-ROM was added on to its design at the last minute as an afterthought. Model 2 was a runaway success in Japan.
Kalinske Pitched the SGI chipset called "G64" to SEGA of Japan in late 1993. Kalinske had personal meetings with Hayao Nakayama. Nakayama told Kalinske that SEGA couldn't go with the G64 built because they had already spent too much money on other chipsets. Nakayama then revealed Saturn for the first time to Kalinske and had him sign an NDA and it was NAKAYAMA, Not Kalinske who suggested G64 be pitched to Nintendo. They heard Nintendo was having problems due to Sony gossiping and causing OEM deals to be shut by yellow gossiping to other manufacturers about doing business with Nintendo.
Kalinske confirmed this in person to our affiliates MKing in 2017.
And finally, PS1 is WEAKER than Saturn. FAR weaker. Saturn's Tradesecrets are finally coming out. The Machine was TWICE the power of PS1 capable of 64-bit DMA and was BETTER at 3D because it utilized Mapping and Texturing 3D Capabilities. Saturn's Documentation wasn't known yet at the time in late '94 as SOJ wasn't ready to send the tools to 3rd party developers. Same thing happened with Nintendo Ultra 64. Both Consoles were a bit of a Cakewalk to learn at first. So they weren't hard to develop for, the tools just weren't ready yet.
]]
@@segaunited3855Nobody cares about your facts, man, I just care about the development story of Sonic X-treme and this is a fantastic video.
Imagine getting fired from a job because you only worked 10 hours a day. Crazy! That's just unhealthy.
Overwork in the games industry is still all too common
He's so casual about it... like the guy who refuses to put his health at risk is the bad guy... wtf is this shit? How tf are there people with such disregard for fucking researched fact into what overworking does to our mental health that they fucking blame the victim? I am so fucking disgusted with the world right now and it just keeps getting worse every moment as more skeletons pile up on the floor.
@@PathBeyondTheDark Jesus Christ. Pessimistic much?
@@PathBeyondTheDark Its not bad to look at things more "realistically", but your just overlooking all of the good stuff in the world. Technically the world is wayyy better off than it was 50 years ago and statistics actually prove it. I understand looking at what's going on now and then are 2 different scenarios, but seriously you gotta look at the bigger picture.
You say that we should just live in a fantasy world while you live in the "real" one, but maybe the same applies to you.
Some people have a mental illness where they not only defend wageslavery but actively resist those who refuse to take part in it. This is why unions exist.
This is definitely the best piece I've saw about Sonic X-treme. The amount of work and research put into this is visibly astonishing. I'm searching things about this game for years and much of the details in here were new to me. Congratulations!
Thank you so much! I'm glad it served as a good resource!
this series is only getting better and better wow
Thanks man! This one took forever to get out, but I hope it was worth the wait!
@@StuffWePlay This was totally worth the wait and thanks so much for this amazing piece of gaming history!
I'm really glad y'all liked it!
Dude, how has this not hit a hundred thousand? Its a crime. Quality work
Thank you so much!
So there was a ring throw move in the Sonic 3 prototype, and now there was one planned in Sonic X-treme? That's crazy. I've wanted a video like this for so long, thank you for making this!
I'm glad you enjoyed it! I'd love to dive into Sonic 3's history at some point, perhaps next year!
Thanks for allowing me to be part as the...British narrator lol. AOF has been without a doubt one of the best series the gaming community has ever had. The polish is unreal!
It was awesome having you be a part of this dude! Not just as a voice actor, but as a friend, you honestly helped make this series possible
I've watched many presentations on sonic xtreme and the saturn. I have to say, this was by far the best put together and well executed presentation on the subject that I have seen. Kudos.
I'm glad you enjoyed this one! About a year of research went into making this possible!
Xtreme never had a full running Beta on Saturn hardware. Its why Willis and Senn were using the Nights engine. ALL Demos you see are source codes from Mars hardware being ported over to Saturn.
It really is baffling how splintered and unfocused Sega was during this time. It seems like so much could have been solved by a more straightforward business model, i.e. just focusing on a couple of consoles and not having so many dev teams.
Really makes you think and imagine the possibilities. Sometimes I wonder if they would've seen more success if they went for a more rail-style game, like Sonic and the Secret Rings. With a fixed camera they could've had the potential to put less strain on the console. The concepts they had would've made for good bonus levels, and the boss engine would've been good to mix up the game from the rail-based levels. It is what it is, I suppose.
I'd argue it was a strength and weakness, not a new thing either. Their arcade divisions had always
acted as pretty independent entities, the problem was egos and in-fighting. Two perfect examples?
Nakayama vehemently opposed Sonic 1 becoming the new pack-in, and not to mention...
Surprise launch of the Saturn in the US was his idea, to beat Sony to market. Kalinske was forced
EDIT: And an extra? The infamous 2 CPU setup was his kneejerk demand to beat the PSX's power
I think it's because each Sega branch tried to run the company like a regional/local business instead of a global one, and the branches competed against each other rather than assisted each other.
The SNES & Genesis were still getting 66% of console sales until 1996. With the bulk of the success being in the US, but the Genesis being weak in Japan. So you have Sega of America who saw supporting the Genesis as the big money maker,. Sega of Japan who thought a new console was the right way forward, but only to boost market share in Japan rather than to compete with the SNES or PS1 on a global scale.
The Saturn was successful in Japan due to a focus on arcade-style titles, but sold terribly in the west because people wanted more home-console focused gameplay which the PS1 and N64 were delivering. And as shown in the video you had Japanese Sega developers like Yuji Naka outraged and trying to stop American Sega developers from using his nIGHTS engine to make a Sonic Xtreme, despite the fact they're literally members of the exact same company and if the game came out in 1996 as intended, it would have helped the Saturn compete against the likes of Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot which both helped sell millions of Nintendo 64s and PS1s.
I give this video
a 299 out of 10 😎
Thank you so much again for such a detailed documentary on video game history. I didn't even know about the game called Sonic X-Treme until you announced this doc in the works.
The console wars of the 90's were such a fascinating time. I was just a bit too young/sheltered to understand how crazy it was at the time.
Haha thank you tons! It's really crazy to see how this all played out! Seeing how this one is doing pretty well, maybe at some point, I'll dive in and cover another Sonic game's development. Perhaps I could do a definitive look at the Sonic 3-Michael Jackson story?
Stuff We Play THAT TRIVIA IS SO WEIRD TO ME and absolutely yes I’d really love to see a doc! But take a break bro this one took ages to make!
I definitely will! Next video is definitely going to be smaller in scope and lighter in tone!
This needs 1M views. I thoroughly enjoyed the storytelling, compassion and detail put into this documentary about something on the surface that wouldn’t seem compelling.
Thank you so so much for the kind words
Wow this incredible story showed nearly all things that could go wrong or be mismanaged while developing a game.
It's truly astounding how things just seemed to keep going from bad to worse!
To Me, Robert Morgan will Always be the REAL culprit behind Sonic X-treme's cancellation since HE was the one who REFUSED to give Chris Senn And Ofer Alon a Saturn devkit to help with the game's development. as well as bringing in his buddies from Point of View to make the Crummy build That was shown to Nakayama. Too bad a LOT of people don't know about that little tidbit, though.
Thank you for letting me be a part of this, bud.
It was awesome having you on board! Thanks for helping make this possible!
Ooof, that intro (especially the line about delaying a game until it seems impossibly big) feels _viscerally raw_ for those following _Cyberpunk 2077_
Oh my gosh, this is such an interesting documentary about this game. This video is honestly the most info I've gotten on Sonic X-Treme! Thank you for making this video! I wish that it had been released! I personally LOVE the use of the fish-eye lens, as it would have been one of a kind!
Thank you tons and tons for the kind words!
I've been really enjoying this documentary so far and love the amount of work you put into it. Getting those interviews with old employees is a killer move and shows you actually did some original research. Very few video game video essays do this. Loving the camerawork too.
I hate to be that guy though. Your date for Kalinske's surprise launch reveal at E3 appears to be incorrect. The text in your doc says July 8th, 1995. But most sources show this happened on May 11th.
Thank you! And you're absolutely right. I accidentally put the European release date instead of the North American date and hadn't noticed. Gonna heart this comment so that people see this
Stuff We Play That’s a perfectly reasonable mix up. I just finished watching and the rest of this completely outshines that tiny nitpick. It’s crazy that Naka’s golden boy attitude kept them from using the NiGHTS engine, on top of everything else. What a development hell trip.
@@StuffWePlay Saturn was Trial Launched in select retailers on May 11,1995. It didn't fully launch until September 2nd.
The guy talking bad about someone that „only“ works 10 hours, should apologize to him. As the manager he was responsible for the health and also mindset and it seems, it was toxic. For me, the worst a manager could be and it seems, he didn’t learn anything- also after they got sick. If everyone would have worked a healthy overtime, they would have more time spend on the game at the end. Something, a good manager has in mind.
I wholeheartedly agree, but I guess there was nothing that Wallace (the guy who fired him) could do since this was an effect of trickle down toxic work culture. Those higher up than him were pressing the ultimatum of "get this done in this time frame or your career is ruined", so everyone not on board with the crunch was probably seen as a threat to work security: "It's either me or him" mentality. Really, really toxic place to work in.
That cross between Santa Clause and Teddy Roosevelt looked eerily similar to a certain Egg-shaped super genius...
I've never seen a lot of this footage before- I didn't know there WAS any footage of those E3 conferences, much less Sonic 32X prototypes.
The funniest thing about the E3 footage, is all the E3 '96 footage came from a French VHS tape that apparently could only be gotten through mail order! It was both incredibly odd and incredibly fascinating lol
@@StuffWePlay this is insanely in depth. I followed SX news like a hawk for years before and after and I never knew most of this!
I personally think that some ideas from Sonic Xtreme, mainly the new characters written for the game, like Tiara and Gazebo, could probably be incorporated into the next main Sonic game.
I could definitely see that!
32:56
"Who got along really well with...KRYSSEN?"
I forgot I was there hanging with the US Sonic team.
Honestly, I have never heard a name similar to mine mentioned in a video before, so this stuck out to me.
I’ve never seen a documentary like this before. Such a depth!
Thank you very much!
This was incredibly well researched. Great job!
Thank you tons!
30:38 ...It sold poorly because it was on The 32x. That's it.
The biggest mistakes Sega made were the addons for the Genesis, and switching the release date of the Saturn. Had they held firm to their release date, and dropped the price of the Genesis the year before the Saturn launch, they would have faired much better.
The only thing that would have saved the Dreamcast is if they had gone with the DVD drive. Then, SEGA would have been able to hold onto its market share. That DVD drive is what sold so many PS2's.
Good job dude, I'm glad you got this out.
Thanks man! I'm really glad you enjoyed it
That was one hell of a fascinating watch, I have to say!! Very impressive and informative. I never knew all these little aspects of the story behind this game's development.
Thank you so much!
Very informative and entertaining documentary of Sonic, Sega, STI, and Xtreme! I followed the game but this program informed me of much I didn't know. Thanks for the show!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This video, simply put, is absolutely fantastic! The amount of research, time, and care you put into this video makes this, in my opinion, easily the best video about Sonic X-Treme on RUclips! Having discovered your channel through this video (as Sonic X-Treme has always been a source of endless fascination for me), I look forward to your future 'Art of Failure' videos! Great work once again!
Comments like this make the effort I put into this all the more worth it. Thank you!
wow, this was such an awesome watch omg. i'd heard of sonic xtreme and it's demise before but i had no idea the timeline was so insane
Glad you enjoyed it!
WOW, a lot of this footage is new to me! Stellar work!
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
Amazing documentary! A facinacting insight into the game dev process. I did however want to point out, 59:55 in partciluar. Yes, that animator seemingly wasnt a team player, but I think it speaks volumes to the mistreatment of game developers that he was fired for putting his foot down and refusing to crunch. Seems the industry has hardly changed in that regard.
This game was dead on the spot the moment development started. The concept never seemed good imo. Especially when you put it next to likes of Mario 64, Crash and Tomb Raider.
Fantastic work. Thank you for all your effort in putting this together. Really great to gain this level of insight into possibly the most mysterious Sonic game. What a shame they didn’t get another year after being told to make the game look like the boss demo. A late game is better than no game, right?
Exactly! Either that, or I wonder if they'd let it shift to the Dreamcast at some point?
Thanks for the in-depth look at such a convoluted and emotional situation.
The reason "Sonic the Hedgehog: Wonders of the World" could never take off on production, casting, filming and only a small synopsis was because Sonic X-Treme failed to meet a deadline and release, thus increasing problems further as the plot of the film would emphasize in this particular Sonic game as a way of marketing.
That's my hypothesis on this whole thing. Now on the video. Very well written and informative! Amazing job, man. Congrats.
Never heard of that one, but it sounds interesting. I'm glad you enjoyed it though!
@@StuffWePlay If they knew about Lion Mane Mushroom and other herbs that boast immune systems by a lot and other body systems! Then could have hang in their more only did this head of time before development! Well the development team for Sonic Xtreme! Well by having more healthy life style while working for that amount while mediating deeply for 6 hours! So I think while project failed also is because, they're lacking proper health knowledge and relaxation techniques! Well and other could have taken golden root& echinacea heard for only 8 weeks! Well for a least in a advance before even, the development to prevent from them from getting sick! Maybe they could take Blazing Mushroom even too, if that would be safe to mix with it. If I would have birth back then, and I was on team well then I would been there best defense against getting burned out or if my outside education information had reached them!
LightIncZproductions
They might’ve been on a small time crunch
Holy shit, what a vid. You don’t have enough views for all the work you must have put into this.
Great job; I’d love to see more documentaries from you, and I hope it gets picked up more.
Thank you so much! I really love making content in this style!
Fantastic video. The kind of thing that would have been on TV 20 years ago.
Thank you! It means a lot to hear that
how tf does this video only have 16k views. It's very well researched and deserves way more IMO
I blame the constantly changing YT algorithm haha. That said, the best way to help videos grow is just by sharing them :)
At the time I started writing this, it's near the end of the holiday season, around Christmas: the planned release time frame for Sonic X-treme.
A year later, and no other Sonic X-treme documentary video has topped this one; probably *the best* documentary of this game I've seen to date.
Late to the party on this . . . *very.* I remember composing a long passionate comment on your Sonic Boom: Rise of Lyric episode of Art of Failure; expressing my fasination towards that game & my apologetic passion towards the Sonic Boom subset franchise as a hole, while looking forward to this episode on Sonic X-treme.
So. . .I'm gonna do the same thing here, because. . .man. I have *a lot* of passionate thing to say about this game.
*Long passionate comment incoming*
Sonic X-treme is a game that *really* fasinates me; a game that contains out-of-the-box ideas & concepts that could've made a one-of-a kind experience, especially for Sonic first leap into the 3rd dimension. But basically do to internal politics within SEGA that lead to a hellish development cycle, the game was never meant to be.
It was so cool of you to actually go the extra mile to interview Chris Sean and Mike Wallis for this video to add extra clarity to certain events of X-treme's development. It's quite a shame, really. When I said that it contains out-of-the-box ideas & concepts that could've made a one-of-a-kind experience, I really mean it. I disappoints me that some scoff at the game by judging it from early prototypes of the game; saying that it would've been nauseating to play with the fish-eye lens. People forget that a lot can greatly change fast in development, even in just either in a month or more. Take the SonicDEMO96/4Worlds build by Chris Sean & Ofer Alon for example; compare that to earlier builds of the game that are now available to the public, and you can see a stark difference. And it was confirmed by Sean that the game was only about 60% complete. If the game was given enough time to be completed, the game probably would of been very different than what we've seen of it.
I personally think that this game could've been really good. Despite what some will say, but the fish-eye lens I think is a cool idea; a novel solution to 2D games of the past by having the ability to see most of your surroundings in the level. For a fast moving character like Sonic, it would've been a tremendous help to see incoming obstacles up 'n down 'n all around (referencetotallyintended).
The anti-gravity/"World Rotation" gimmick that was also planned for this game would've been also fun to play around with as well.
Judging by the latest known build of the game that I mentioned earlier, the game looked to be like a combination of both it's would've-been competition, Super Mario 64 and Crash Bandicoot, in terms of how the levels in that build were put together. Super Mario 64 was a fully 3D game, where you can control Mario in a fully 3D environment, while Crash Bandicoot was more confined in a hallway, while switching to 2.5D in occasion. Sonic X-treme looked like it does both these things: semi open 3D environments with a hint of 2.5D elements.
Seeing all of the known plans and ambitions for this game, if only development went more smoothly than it did. And even if it did, could this game saved the SEGA Saturn in the west? In reality, we don't know for sure, but if I had to guess based on my own thoughts on the game. . .maybe. History has told us that once Sonic graced the SEGA Genesis/Mega Drive in the west, it pretty much helped the console skyrocket in sales to the point of having SEGA beating Nintendo for a while. So it would've been plausible that lighting would've struck in the bottle twice for SEGA, have they had Sonic X-treme been completed more smoothly and on time for the Saturn during the holiday season.
Man. . .this game. . . If only. . .
I would've loved to play it, and experience what it could've offered. You know. . .it would be cool to see this game get revived. Think about it. Since now that the Sonic franchise has been split into a few pillars, the most notable being "Classic" Sonic and "Modern" Sonic, I would say it isn't too far fetched to do something like this, if you see where I'm going with this.
I would say the *best* example to use for a potential revival of Sonic X-treme is a fan project named *Project AXSX* . A fangame that has been in development for almost 15 years and still going strong, created by Andrew75 (one of the guys who are responsible of uncovering the prototypes of recent memory that were shown off in this video, fun fact.), that aims to re-create Sonic X-treme as if to how it could of been possibility like if it was finished. Out of all the Sonic X-treme fangames out there, this is the absolute *best* one to date. The overall slow but steady progress it has made over the years is an absolute marvel, and I *highly* recommend checking it out and giving it the upmost support for those who are greatly fasinated towards Sonic X-treme as I am. As much as I hate the implications if this notion, I must admit. . .it's one of those fangames that are too good to *NOT* be official, I feel. It's that good, I think.
So yeah. . .just a cool thought that I think could actually happen, but hey. . .a man can dream, can he?
Thank you for making this rock solid documentary.
Hope you had a Merry Christmas. . .and a Happy (andhopefully better) New Year!
You can say that again I would loved to live in a universe where Sonic X Treme was actually released for the Sega Saturn 💖💖💖💖💖💖💖
I didn’t think anyone could beat miiyouandmii2’s video but you did it. Amazing job... earned a sub
Thank you so much!
This needs more views. Like seriously, thank you for putting in the work to make this long video. Very informative
Thank YOU tons for watching! And of course, the best way to help it get more views is to share it out :)
@@StuffWePlay Too bad you didn't mention the Jupiter was which eventually stolen by Sony and became the PSX.
I understand that you would though, SEGA had THREE 5th Gen Projects going on during the Early 90s.
Great job on this! This vid is way better at explaining Sonic Xtreme than anything else I've seen outside of really digging deep into stuff the actual devs have said etc.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Best development history channel ever (next to Beta64, of course)
Thank you so much!
This video was incredibly put together. Bravo, and here’s hoping to WAY more views and subscribers in the future. Seriously, this video helped me contextualize the game in a whole new way.
Thank you so much for the kind words!
thought this was a sonic documentary, not just a sonic xtreme documentary, your video is so good it creates an illusion while watching the video.
One must also keep in mind that Sega was still producing GameGear games, they seriously over saturated their market in their own company at a critical time. They didn’t stop producing Genesis games until ‘98.
And many of those genesis games were still selling very well. In fact, their football game sold just over one million copies that year. IIRC, Genesis sold more games every single year in North America until everything went on clearance around 1998-99.
No matter how many times I'd watch this video, I will never get tired of it.
"A rushed game is forever bad"
Sonic the hedgehog 2: *peices out*
I love this video so much. Great job. I think this is the 3rd time I’ve watched this and I always get something new from it. Have you played Balan Wonderland yet? Maybe Sega should have let them have the nights engine
Thank you so so much! I haven't had a chance to play Balan Wonderworld yet - admittedly, initial reviews have me wanting to wait until it's gotten a steep price cut haha
Yeah, if only Yuji Naka wasn't a douche it would have help the Sonic X-Treme team very well.
A fascinating deep dive into the subject. Excellent work.
Glad you enjoyed it!
The most sad part is that Chris Senn would later work on Sonic Boom
Yup! I actually interviewed him for part of a documentary I did on that game's development, too
Poor chris
@@markurbanowicz6619 Goddamn that's a punch to the face. How unlucky even with the money.
@@markurbanowicz6619Chris Chan
It's pretty shocking how much work they put in and for how long this game was in development for, to see what actually was left of the game at the end. It looks like it was no where near close to being finished.
It didn't seem that bad judgeing by the demonstration demos, but overall it all just spiraled into absolute development hell, who knew that one game could almost break apart half an entire development team?
Absolutely! I've heard of people getting sick of a project, but never heard of that literally happening!
It was in development hell because it was NEVER designed or meant for Saturn. Pure and Simple.
Very good. Well researched and brilliantly put together. ❤
Great job... Very professional and comprehensive work. Looking forward to seeing what's next.
Thank you tons!
This was so entertaining and informative and was edited well. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Also, I wonder if Yuji Naka did that on purpose. NiGhts succeeding more than the sonic Saturn title kinda seems like he was really wanting his new game to outshine Sonic(I mean SOnic isn't even really his) and since the team was, obviously, needing serious help purposely denied it to them knowing they would either make a inferior game or fail completely.
Sonic is his, he designed the gameplay of Sonic, which is just as important as his design. I think Naka was fed up with SEGA's management over the years, he knew whatever was going to be made in a few months was going to be utter garbage. It's completely justified that he would want Sonic Team to develop the first 3D Sonic game, considering they pioneered the franchise in the first place. This game was not meant to be, and should have never been pitched and is the result of massive distress to many developers.
1:01:20
Yeah, God forbid a human being have a family or life outside of their job. Attitudes like this have ruined America's relationship with work.
And even more so Japan's, to the point that death from overwork is now a Japanese national epidemic.
It's honestly incredible how after the absolute epiphanies that were the mainline Sonic games on the Genesis and Sega CD, that Sega would give some random people without any experience with Sonic free reign to develop a follow-up. I'm no fan of sports, but imagine the New England Patriots winning the World Series (I said I'm not a fan) and then replacing every team member the next year and vying for the Triple Crown that upcoming year as well. Notice also that the average number of staff of a random franchise location of Burger King is as large or larger than the number of people who worked on Sonic Xtreme. Sonic Xtreme is a curiosity, but it was never going to be great. And the reason is that SEGA didn't really care...just as appears to be the case now in late 2020, when no follow-up to Sonic Mania has shown up on the radar. If in 2021, for Sonic's 30th birthday, there is no follow-up to Sonic Mania (with all new levels, and designed by the same Sonic Mania team), you will know that Sega is still just as stupid and inept as they have been since 1994.
Exactly. Sega was handed a godsend of a mascot -- literally just as recognizable as Mario, Mickey Mouse, and Ronald McDonald, but somehow they managed to fuck it up by just not caring enough. They had a priceless gem and they treat it well for a few years before getting cocky and letting it all go downhill, and they still do to this day.
I don't get it. If it weren't for Sonic, Sega would have gone the way of Atari a long time ago. They should treat the series with way more care; go back to treating it like a first party developer and not a company looking for a quick buck.
13:00 This is where Sonic X-Treme development saga begins
No problem, my dude👍🏾
21:17 jeez, thanks for the jumpscare! 😤
If they could've delayed to at least mid-1997, the game could've had a chance
That would give the developers time to recover from their conditions
But then again, by mid-1997, development for the Dreamcast we're beginning and they decided to move to the Dreamcast
It really seems like SoJ was actively trying to sabotage anything SoA was doing
Criminally low amount of views on this. Great work. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
so the game got 2 people almost killed
after quitting the game's development, it seems like their lives were perfect.
FANTASTIC WORK
Thank you tons!
Your health is more important than making a game.
No game is worth dying for
Great documentary, thanks so much. Mario 64/Goldeneye/Zelda basically sold the N64... So it's hard not to see that a few quality sonic titles and a streets of a rage could have put the Saturn on a very different course and offer something the PS1 couldn't.
The guy who got fired seems to be the only voice of reason in the team, key members worked themselves into illness with stupidly long shifts. Also very selfish/stupid of the Nights producer not to lend the engine from Nights; would have saved the project.
Thank you so much!
If only srb2 was a sateren game @@StuffWePlay
This was an incredible video. Great work.
Thank you so much!
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad"
EA: Hold my beer
How does this not have more views???
Thank you! As always, sharing out will help it gain traction!
I always found Sonic Xtreme so interesting and sad. Great video
Thank you!
So ridiculous how SoA and SoJ weren't "on the same page" about something as pivotal as what console was the successor to the Genesis. If they wouldn't have treated each other as separate entities so much and cooperated, they could have skipped the 32x and focused on the Saturn and getting the right titles to launch for the NA release. And why was SoA looking into a new console knowing the Saturn just came out in Japan? So strange.
Because SOA really hated the Saturn’s architecture. They predicted that it would hobble long term third party support.
And in fairness, they weren’t wrong. The Saturn’s architecture was an absolute mess.
"A delayed game is eventually canned but a rushed game will see us through to the next financial quarter." - SEGA
I held out for years hoping that someday, a near finished build of Sonic Xtreme would see the light of day, but going off of this documentary, you come to realize that the game never even came close to reaching a finished state, and was basically a crazy-quilt of directionless and gimmicky ideas and a doomed concept from start to finish. It just doesnt look appealing or that fun to play, and doesnt capture the feeling of playing as Sonic in 3D at all. I cant believe Sega thought this game even had a prayer of competing with Mario 64 or Crash Bandicoot when the gameplay and graphics were barely a step ahead of Bug! (which, oddly enough, was planned as a 3D Sonic game very early on). Even Sonic 3D Blast felt more cohesive and truer to the Genesis games in comparison! So yeah, with due respect to the team who busted their butts off on it, this project absolutely deserved to be put out of its misery.
Also, how ironic is it that the "asshole animator" turned out to be the closest thing to a voice of reason in that mess and actually lucked out by getting fired from that sinking ship? Its really disgusting how "Crunch culture" is treated as a normal thing in the video game business. :(
Chris Senn's probably a good guy, but the interview footage shown here proves to me he's no angel like most of the versions of this story implies
I'm kind of on the side of the guy who got fired. No game or job is worth risking your health or personal life for. You're not going to do your best work if you're physically and mentally exhausted.
I would kill to see a live action movie of this story, like fuck it would’ve been so stressful and anxious to watch
Once the current pandemic clears up, I'm actually hoping to create a theatrical feature documentary based off of this story, centred more on the POVs of Chris Senn and Christina Coffin! Of course, that's on the backburner for now due to current events
Stuff We Play good look man and amazing video
23:14 Fun fact for those who mightn't know; the Sega Neptune is represented in the form of Neptune from the Neptunia games. If you've never played them, all the characters are reps of various consoles, the main ones aside from Nep being:
Noire of Lastation (PlayStation)
Blanc of Lowee (Wii)
Vert of Leanbox (Xbox)
They also have younger sisters who represent the handheld consoles (except Vert because Xbox don't have any handhelds). Nepgear is the Game Gear, Uni is PSP, and the twins Ram and Rom rep the DS and it's dual screens.
Sorry for the info overload, I just really love those games 😅
And Plutia is the SEGA Pluto that went the way of the SEGA Neptune.
It was a whirlwind of bad decisions and situations.
I ended up having the impression that the X-treme Team wasn’t aware they had 3D Blast as a ‘Plan B’.
If so, would they give up a little bit earlier?
So the animator expressing concern that the team was working themselves to an unhealthy degree was a "douchebag" move? He was an "ass" for being unwilling to endanger his own mental/physical well-being? If only he'd lost 25 pounds through extreme stress and pushed himself to death's door through overwork he could've kept his job? Hmm...
I just loved everything in this video. At this day i still remember being amazed by Sonic X-treme and today i decided to do nothing but watch this amazing video, i just didnt know what dumpster fire the development was.
Maybe im a little ignorant but seeing women make and be an important member of a development team specially before 2010 is just wonderful. I'm subscribing ofc, great work!
Thank you tons and tons!
I empathise with these developers. I really do. SEGA had such a lack of cohesive management throughout its company, and you can tell that, were this team working under better circumstances, they could have created a Saturn game so good that SEGA would work even harder to emulate the Saturn to preserve those games.
What irritates me even more, however, is hearing that Yuji Naka, a developer I've had a lot of respect for due to all his accomplishments, wouldn't allow his game engine for Nights to be used on Sonic Xtreme when that team desperately needed it. How selfish and conceited do you have to be to not allow a game engine your company owns, NOT you, to aid a development team whose key members are working themselves to death? Okay, fine, he presumably created it. We all know that, so there's his recognition. But it's not like Yuji hadn't been reaping the rewards of it anyway, given the critical and commercial acclaim Nights had garnered.
As someone who has worked in the industry for a brief time, I just can't wrap my head around what Yuji Naka did, especially considering how difficult it can be to create and finish a game for commercial release. They were part of the same company, and he couldn't do that much for them? Not even offer words of encouragement for people with a strong passion for his gaming creation, wanting to bring that legacy to the third dimension?
I remember when Hideo Kojima had left Konami and worked on Death Stranding with his team of developers, and Sony encouraged him to visit their other developers. That visit paid off, because when he spoke with the Guerrilla Games developers, they insisted on giving him their game engine. Since he couldn't use the Fox Die engine his team created for MGSV, you can imagine how helpful that would have been for him.
You unfortunately are uniformed and are completely wrong. And don't know anything about the WHOLE story and the actual truth.
You owe Yuji Naka and apology as well. Keep in Mind, Nights was NOT a Critical and Commercial success in North America. You also need to keep in Mind that Nights was released AFTER Xtreme was scrapped.
Sir, your post sounds extremely misdirected and misguided. You should study Game Engine Patent Rights and COPYRIGHTS.
@@segaunited3855 Wow, what crawled up your arse and died? You sound like a brown-nosing politician or hack lawyer who will excuse any scummy or counter-intuitive business practice in defense of your corporate daddies at SEGA. You could have simply corrected me and outlined my mistakes with proof, but you instead decided to resort to insults and patronising monologues. If this is the response you give to people instead of helping them understand the situation in a less condescending manner, then expect a response from me in kind. I watched the full video twice in my free time before I ever saw your sorry excuse of a reply, and my point still stands.
Just because Yuji Naka had some form of patent on Nights' game engine, doesn't mean he should have outright denied its use by his own peers within the company. That's basic human decency. Royalties to him would have sufficed if it was a transaction he was not made aware of.
You might think you owned someone for wasting so much time on semantics about SEGA, but all you have proven today is that you are a disturbed individual who expects me to apologise to Yuji Naka for expressing my honest opinion about the situation. I respect what he has accomplished, but you are having a laugh if you honestly expect me to take any of your immature , butthurt demands seriously. I've met Nintendo and Sony apologists who are less pathetic than you. Get a life outside of your SEGA bubble, and do something more productive with it than proving to everyone what a bitter, obsessive lolcow you are.
Yuji Naka and SoJ's incompetence and whining ruin yet another thing: The Game.
I wonder if the game would've fared better had they actually been allowed to use the NiGHTS engine
Nope. Wrong.
@@segaunited3855 Who are you saying "wrong" towards? Are you saying it to "Marx" or "Stuff We Play?"
@@thewildblueone5341 You are incorrect regarding Yuji Naka and SEGA of Japan. This was a project they had absolutely NOTHING to do with.
Sega United Did you not watch the video?
Yikes... the health problems are scary. They wanted to be apart of this revolutionary game so bad, but it was killing them. They probably used uppers too.
Holy shit, this project almost killed two people and this Mike character is still like “only working 10 hour days is for assholes.” Toxic work culture literally kills people. Game devs, and workers in general, should unionize.
Oh he works at Blizzard now. Makes sense. His attitudes fit in well with what we know about their current culture.
Also it kinda sucks how the rest of team was just like"yeah fire him we don't care"
It also kinda bad how the rest of the team did not care about him being fired.