Snapdragon X Elite Emulation Performance and Battery Life Tested!
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- Опубликовано: 28 май 2024
- Snapdragon X Elite's emulation surprises! In this video, Gordon analyzes a sponsored performance report comparing the new Microsoft Surface Laptop with a Snapdragon X Elite compared to Intel's 12th gen, Meteor Lake, Apple's M3 and an older generation Qualcomm chip.
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It is so cool to see Gordon in all these recent videos. You keep winning the good fight sir!
Gordon's got that "Kid in a candy store" look when he's got all those charts up.
Gordon rockin the Paul's Hardware thumbscrew shirt showing how timeless that is
Nope, that's a Paul's Hardware logo
@threadripper979 yeah I had a brain fart at first 😅
Paul is awesome...
Battery sizes are listed on the product page at the bottom of the tech specs
Surface Laptop 13.8”:
Battery Capacity Nominal (Wh) 54
Battery Capacity Min (Wh) 52
Surface Laptop 15”:
Battery Capacity Nominal (Wh) 66
Battery Capacity Min (Wh) 64
Thanks. I'm guessing the specs weren't available last week since it wasn't called Surface Laptop 7 last week either. I wonder what happened to Surface Laptop 6?
@@FakeGordonMahUng 6 is for businesses with meteor lake chips
The 14" M3 MacBook Pro models are ~70Wh with M3, and the 16" are ~100Wh .
Considering the Snapdragon X SoC's lack of efficiency cores for basic single core task handling and the excessive heat it appears they are putting out per the FLIR images even with active cooling, it's not looking great for for the claimed battery life on these units.
It will be interesting to see the *unbiased* reviews and benchmarks coming out over the next few months. MS seem very keen to sell pre-orders on hype prior to the products hitting the shelves.
I think in addition to saying this was a paid report, it would have fair to introduce who wrote the report and his history and experience over the years in reviewing computer hardware for around 15 years as well as his time working at Intel. I have great faith that Ryan Shrout is fair and unbiased in his findings.
In earlier cuts I gave a shout out to Ryan as one of the most respected reviewers of his time but in cutting it down for time and trying to do it in one take it got cut out. I've known Ryan for a long time as well and greatly respect him and have had him on the podcast when he was at Intel.
Hope he sees this bro
@@FakeGordonMahUng Just finished watching the whole video. I still just wish you would have given some background on Ryan. You took a second run at the end of the video to imply to maybe not trust the results because the report was paid for.
@@MechanicalAdvantage Again, I respect Ryan immensely having known him for years. But I suspect he would also always say wait for reviews from third-parties as well because that is the proper advice to give to potential consumers who will spend their hard-earned cash on a new laptop. That's what any responsible reviewer would say and I'm 100% certain he would not be offended by it.
If someone said: "Well, I'd want to see other reviews other than Gordon's" I'd respect that as well and have said that many, many times as I encourage people to ingest as much data as they are comfortable with before spending the money.
Now, with all that said: If it WASN'T Ryan (and also Pat Moorhead who is involved in Signal65) I'd probably have either skipped it entirely or simply not went over all of the results. And on X.com, I've been defending people who have been saying to Ryan "IT'S A PAID REPORT!!!" by saying I suspect when the units get into reviewer's hands, the results are likely to largely match what Signal65 produced here.
And yes, you should wait for more reviews...
Ah yes someone who worked there for years and got cherry picked sample for his business before he got there requires a special shout out for fairness 🤣
Welcome back Gordon!!! Nice to see you again.
Gordon, I hope these paid numbers from signal65 are correct and wish snapdragon x elite success, but what is up with the cloak and dagger style marketing for over 6 months? Nobody objective has been given full access to the product yet, even now. If the product is that good just give it to Gordon to let him test it and let's get on with life.
Right, that has me worried. I've been waiting for an OLED surface pro for a few years. I was ready to pre-order but only if trusted reviewers got to test it first.
@@thanksyoutubefortakingmyhandle There's a quite good return policy in Microsoft store in my country. I'll just return mine if it sucks.
@@LawsonBarnette What would they be hiding? There's already AMD based Surface devices, running on older versions of Snapdragon.
@@LawsonBarnette The weakness of your argument is the fact that Microsoft offers a very generous return policy when you buy your computer from them. But yes, I'm sure people will find some issues just like Mac M1 had some issues when it was new.
@@LawsonBarnette the Business version will need to run productivity applications, this is very telling as to the quality of their X86/ARM conversion and any limitations/issues with Windows for ARM. If they aren't backing their brand new flagship product for professional use, that is concerning.
MS and Qualcomm have only released a biassed set of benchmarks against an M3 SoC in a fan-less Air chassis; it is very telling that they had to rig the comparison, and even then the M3 Air beats out the Snapdragon on several tests (most noticeably, the single core performance and thermals)
One likely reason for the hype and shady marketing practises is that they know their product won't look that favourable in an unbiased comparison and are pushing hype to promote pre-orders. They likely know "not quite as good as Apple's new M4 but still pretty good" will be enough for their fanboys to get excited.
The Snapdragon single core performance just isn't comparable and they are clearly compensating with additional performance cores. Something has to give, and it looks like it will be battery life and thermal performance.
gordon back in his element, hope health continues on the upswing good sir
As usual timely information, thanks.
Thanks for the overview and analysis! Promising results. Likely fairly accurate, though definitely waiting to see reviews.
there will probably be Snapdragon X Plus laptops that operates without a fan. The Elite SoC is more comparable to M3 Pro with Fan.
Signal65 used an X elite in an actively cooled 15" chassis against an M3 in a fan-less Air chassis.
The X-plus in a passively cooled chassis won't compare to the M3 in an Air. If it did, they would have shown it instead of the biased comparison.
The Signal65 company appearing out of thin air with these biased reviews is super shady, if the Snapdragon X products were so amazing they wouldn't resort to this BS.
If the m3 pro didn't cost almost twice as much I'd probably agree with you.
Love your coverage of snapdragon!!
Welcome back Gordon. I'm sure I'm the late one here and youve been back for a little while
Finally a video on emulation!
Hmm, isn’t the M3 chip in that MacBook Air 4P+4E cores, not 8P?
Waiting for the Notebookcheck benchmarks. :)
Hope Phoronix can test it too. But doubt Michael will try it without an appropriate Linux distro.
wow result was awesome
Love to Gordon🍀🥊🥊
Office 365 support is huge. That 90% of office PCs primary use case. The only problem is IT departments tend to stick with “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it”, because you have to test every new platform you deploy.
Will look interesting to see the AMD Strix APUs compared to this.
And lunar lake also
The fact that we're still benchmarking Office tools is baffling to me. Except big, heavy Excel workloads, there's nothing that shouldn't run perfect in Word, Powerpoint and Outlook. Especially something like Word. We had it for 30 years now, and things barely changed and improved. I expect a 10 year laptop to run any Word version with absolutely no problem. Unless, I don't know, you have a 25,000 pages document that also has graphs on it or something.
So, yeah, if Office is most of what you're doing, you really don't need bleeding edge 12 core chips. Can't wait for these useless benchmarks to disappear already. I don't see anyone benchmarking Quake 3 Arena, but here we are still benchmarking MS Word X(
@@Winnetou17
Except for Wirth's law. Formulated by the renowned computer scientist Niklaus Wirth, it states "software is getting slower at a faster rate than hardware is getting faster."
As a computer scientist I am often infuriated at software "upgrades" that have more bugs and run slower than the last stable release.
@@pweddy1 That is, indeed, the sad reality of today's software landscape.
At work we have all sorts of office add-ins that destroy performance. Office performance is still an issue in a lot of industries.
I hope the do a rerun with Lunar Lake, I think Qualcomm is doing it's best to have strong numbers, but Meteor Lake is no slouch. Lunar Lake is a major improvement. Hopefully we see best of arm vs best x86, including Intel's Lunar Lake as well as AMDs strix halo.
I don't care how much Microsoft wants to push this. I prefer my native apps run its in native architecture. A lot of proapps won't change suddenly to Arm. And if it's buggy, consumers will take the hit.
I agree but this time around a lot more money is being spent on this project. Something like 10 laptops will have these chips and are much better priced then let’s say a MacBook Pro.
Emulation can be okay. I’m running resident evil 2&3 remake, final fantasy 7 remake and cyber punk on my M2 Max and that’s running through Crossover, steam and cxpatcher.
In a short time, native would mean ARM for laptops, not x86.
Lunar Lake will also be built on a more advanced node than this Snapdragon X Elite. It will beat all the chips seen on these benchmarks and will be quickly replaced by Panther Lake next year. There's a place for ARM and emulation but x86 is shaping up to retain a leading position for native applications. x86 isn't going anywhere.
@GlobalWave1 i don't mind Apple M laptops cause it's more an Arm chip, it's also the ecosystem, macOs, hardware accelerators, and the M chips are a beast for multimedia, film, content creation, etc. If OEMs are going to be close to Apple prices, I don't see a reason for Qualcomm chip to exist. If they are priced more competitively to put pressure on Apple, that is great.
In the end, I consider Apple computers a pro machine, Qualcomm X series, a general surfing PC. I don't see many prousers sacrificing GPU performance over this. While I hope Qualcomm does well to force everyone to step up their game.
I consider this x86 performance optimization with Windows Prism emulation, benefits Apple users. A significant amount of users do like the option to dual boot to use Windows x86 apps. This means running on MacOs Parallels with great support of x86 using Windows Arms.
I hope this doesn't end up bitting Microsoft in the ass in the long run. As Apple users can run MacOs and WindowsOs without a hitch, but Windows users cannot. If Apple keeps doing better hardware than Qualcomm, it's just going to get worse.
@Patrick73787 i totally agree, Meteor Lake was a total redesign, it was risky as hell. A lot of things could have gone wrong, and their major overhaul was being power efficient to be closer to Apple's M series performance per watt. Which it's freaking hard to do considering that Arm natively uses a lot less energy. Lunar Lake builds on top of that, and should be as disruptive as the Qualcomm X series, and I don't know if more.
I don't see the reason why app developers are going full Arm, as proapps are made for desktop and hedt systems.
Is it re-uploaded? Why?
For the first generation it's amazing how well performance was, remember it's competing with M3, not M1. I would like to see how X Elite version 3 or 4 will be, I think on in the 3rd gen of X Elite, apple will be losing already.
Snapdragon is also running on an older process node.
I mean 8cx and friends have been around a long time.
For Microsoft this is the 4th generation they tried even if SQ1-SQ3 were not “laptop processors”. This is the 4th time they are putting ARM in modern surface family. It does look leaps and bounds better.
Well they did buy nuvia, the ex-apple employee chip designers for this very reason. So pretending like this is the first time the company has made a chip like this is not accurate at all.
Is it me or was some of the graph interpolation incorrect
I really curious how snapdragon x elite perform general 3D CAD software like Solidworks, Fusion 360, NX, etc.
can't wait for my elite x surface to come june 18th!!!!!!!!
I am trying to drop my pre order but am torn for the lack of understanding between the capabilities of the pro vs elite chip
why there was no comparison with AMD chips
For real amd pretty good
Probably as Hawk Point is already better.
My reading of the emulated Blender 4.1.1 render time results is the other way around from Gordon's description. The chart says 'lower is better' which is what I would expect. So in emulation mode the Surface Pro 9 completes the task in 36% of the time it takes the Snapdragon in emulation mode. Is that correct?
came to the comments for this, was wondering the same thing seeing "lower is better"
The charts have been redone for percentage performance(higher is better); they haven't updated the labelling. Verification is how the newer Intel 155H beats the older Intel 1255u, which would be correct.
@@longdang2681 Ah.. I see, thanks 👍
Very interesting stuff :3
Your pfp is some furry shit, isn't it? I've seen it before
I appreciate the benchmarks but I want to see non-Microsoft Commissioned comparison. Some of the missing data and footpints worries me. battery size, actual Divinci Resolve results. Modern AI test results, is this really using the NPU of M3 or GPU since that's how inferencing is all done on METAL/GUI power. Just saying there are spots of data that is missing. I still think SdragonXElite will kick ass and on par with M3 base. Great achievement from the super crappy ARM device and software support before. The biggest improvement is the EMULATION!! BETTER THAN 12th gen intel cpu. OH YAH!!!
Well, so do I but sometimes you got to the Internet with the results you have, not the results you wish you had.
This is the most exciting the PC space has been in a decade. What were the other times it was this exciting in the past?
I agree! The decade when Intel dominated and AMD on deathbed was the a dreadful time for computer engineering.
We need Xelite with frore systems Airjet laptop
That 3DMark graphic benchmarks were best case scenario with native arm versions right? If that is the case then everyday gaming with translation layer would be worse.. I wouldn’t hold my breath for these chips beating AMD and Intel current integrated graphics on AAA and esports games then..
I don't either and outside of Ryzen APU's in handhelds and miniPCs, I generally think IGP laptops are 85% work, browsing machines. Maybe it's my bias, but if you want gaming get discrete graphics.
the translation layer would barely do anything so i don't think it'll be much of an issue, in the case of graphics it would only route the API calls to the native ARM version, the rest would operate the exact same way as the iGPU supports it
@@FakeGordonMahUng yeah I was hoping these new snapdragon arm chips would be viable for windows handheld gaming especially with its efficiency for battery life.. Although I’m still interested seeing how these chips fare on emulating old 7th generation gaming consoles and down (in addition with switch and wiiU)
@@deneguil-1618 Yes, I forgot to confirm @emrexis statement that yes, all of the UL 3DMark runs are Arm native. I think the real problem for gaming on Arm is the anti-cheat software which has known issues and the fact that it's a low priority for game developers at the moment since x86 gaming is 100% of the PC gaming market. Maybe if Nvidia's rumored SoC+dGPU shows up on PC, it'll move developers to do something, but even then when budgets and time are limited, you're going to go where your customers are.
And yeah, a comparably priced budget gaming is going to whoop any of the laptops in actual gaming. I'm on the record that even broaching the gaming question for Qualcomm is a trap because it can't win there. And when you're talking gaming on a fixed max 100Whr battery with a dGPU that guzzles power, who cares about the SoC at that point?
@@FakeGordonMahUng i don't have much hope for Nvidia's SoC tbh, I've seen rumors pointing towards them using stock ARM cores and not going custom. Which would make sense as even their server chips are currently way being other options even if they have less cores
With that last blender test apple silicon is actually running native arm while snapdragon is actually running emulated x86
Looking forward to seeing native arm64 blender on that thing
Well, if you want to be that correct, you should also complain about the 7dBm louder device what also 5°C hotter.. so even if X Elite use a cooler, still overheating more like the fanless Macbook..? isn't that also incorrect to compare the fanless device here if even Apple have the same device with cooler on the lineup too..?
@@TamasKiss-yk4st
1. it’s still relatively cool, especially compared to x86.
2. This is under maximum load, which will be a rare occurrence.
3. The snapdragon X elite has 50% more cores than the m3. And the cpu is typically what draws the most power and gets the hottest on the device, so the fact that it’s only 5 degrees hotter under maximum load is pretty impressive.
4. Of course it’s gonna be louder, it has a fan while the m3 air doesn’t. Which will keep it from thermal throttling
Thanks for the video. I have a decision to make. I never really considered ARM. I just picked up a 16gig i7 Surface pro 9 on a closeout sale. Maybe I'll return it for a base Surface Pro 11. Sounds like most of what I need is available native. I have other computers for bigger workloads. I guess I gain mostly battery life. Some performance maybe (web browser and Office 365).
I think you just gotta figure out your priorities--x86 support for the existing library, battery life, dGPU for gaming, etc. If you're using it like most classic U-class laptops (basically near glorified Chromebooks for browsing and Office) these look to be decent alternatives. However, I'd wait for third-party reviews too. At the same time, the price is right so if you got that Surface Pro 9 for a good price, that will be very hard to beat.
As far as I'm aware, the Snapdragon Surface Laptop does actually have a fan
Yes, it does. I don't think I've seen a single design that is fanless with Snapdragon. Even the Surface Pro has a fan.
31:29 The Translation will make or break this product.
I don't think so. Either the performance is enough that devs will care, in which case arm native things are likely to be forthcoming relatively quickly, or it sucks and is seen as a useless toy, as happened to the 8cx, SQ1-SQ3 and everything ends up going through emultion but even natively the perf sucks.
They need to clear the bar "worth using by actual devs", and then the emulator needs to be merely functional rather than ideal
@@BillyONealBro this is Windows. 99% of people needs to use their old x86 apps.
@@dark_mode the old x86 apps need to be *functional*, yes. But I think in most cases where perf matters we'll have native versions soon if consumer hardware is finally not trash
@@BillyONeal
It's a catch 22 problem. If you can't run your old x86 apps consumers won't buy ARM windows and if Consumers don't buy ARM Windows developers won't make native ARM apps. It's the same reason Windows Mobile died.
@@dark_mode Again, the emulator needs to be *functional*. I just don't think it needs to be the fastest thing in the world because given hardware worth using, people will make arm native versions. We just haven't had hardware worth using, which makes the penalties associated with the emulator even worse
This is a very telling analysis of what a customer wants to hear
I have a question about Ram, what is this number in surface laptop ram 8448
That is the officially stated supported MT/s for Snapdragon X chips. I've seen it rounded up and down by different OEMs and RAM manufacturers so yeah, they're not all on the same page.
Comparison toba Chromebook for Batterylife, Videoplayback ... would be interesting. Similar ARM Hardware than Apple and Microsoft but much cheaper.
does snapdragon laptop performs same on battery as on power similar to macbooks? Because all windows laptops loose performance on battery mode
Runs hotter, spinning a fan unlike an Air, lack of efficiency cores, bloated OS due to hardware compatibility range, expect the macbook range to be better on battery use than the Snapdragon laptops
@@scod3908according to the tests the snapdragon is beating out the air fir battery life. At least for the surface laptop. I’d expect the pro to be closer to an iPads battery
After seeing the results I don’t think Apple has anything to worry about. Plus, I don’t see them slowing down with their silicon designs.
Snapdragon is running on an older process node, one gen behind M3. I don't think the concern here is really about Apple. Soon there will be other ARM dealers running on this platform. Nvidia+MediaTek for one. Intel probably should be concerned.
This is what happen when you don't research properly, the snapdragon is running on older node compare to apple and this new chips is first generation and with first generation they are capable of competing with apple M3 and remember apple main advantage is only battery life not raw performance because they are way behind compare to desktop-grade x86 chips like top of the line AMD Ryzen 9 and intel Core 9
@@-Blue-_ maybe because the only real desktop grade processor they have is Ultra line which is still based on M2? Soon released M3/M4 Ultra will give those desktop processors a run for the money.
Also, people like you are only looking on performance. But performance per watt is what matters, and that's what ARM and Apple Silicon is all about.
It's funny to claim processor XX has 15 % higher performance, while it's running on 5-10x more power WITHOUT GPU and WITHOUT ML coprocessors.
@@ZhuJo99 still wrong people who only care about raw performance doesn't care about performance per watt and again M3/M4 doesn't going to change that apple still is way behind in raw performance because both AMD and intel and Nvidia is going to release there new CPUs and GPUs in coming months and you have internet and see who is more powerful in workstation grades performances and why most of he 3d studios and vfx studios prefer x86 systems
@@-Blue-_ people who own a laptop what is majority care about performance per watt. Also care when their system based on x86 doesn't deliver full performance when on battery because it would drain it in 5 minutes.
Data centers do care about performance per watt even more, because money spend on cooling and wasted thermals instead of performance are money lost. We are talking about billions per year here.
Apple is not behind, where do you come with such nonsense? Check Geekbench, which even doesn't tell full story, that with usage of coprocessors Intel and AMD are loosing a big way.
considering they are using TSMC 4nm instead of Apple M3 3nm seems like a win to me.
i look forWARD TO RUNIING MODERATE TO LIGHT BLENDER USECASE ON A Xelite surface pro with a stylus
That’s what I’m saying! Seems perfect for npr artists who use grease pencil! Especially with the detachable keyboard
In the lightroom emulation test, the Mac was running on native code and the snapdragon beat it.
Biased paid testing; there's a reason tested an M3 Air and not an M3 Pro with cooling
There's a trend here, when you look at every article/press release there are very few AMD comparisons. Seriously are there any head to heads with the arm cpus vs AMD parts?
Bro is it degrees or Fahrenheit you are trying to mean
107°C is pretty high for any computer as you keep mentioning in your video
It's the units used by the only country with 11 nuclear-powered aircraft carriers and has physically planted a flag on the moon I believe.
Are you seriously saying that Lightroom doesn't run on Apple Silicon?
I am seriously saying that Pugetbench's Lightroom Classic benchmark which Signal65 used probably because 1) it exists 2) Is non-native to Arm on Windows--doesn't run on Apple Silicon.
im enticed by qualcomm chips for productivity and ai
My only takeaway is the price. The X Elite chip is supposed to max at a $150 cost to make, which should equal a cheaper price overall. I can't imagine a surface laptop having a lower price than before regardless so maybe we should just need to shop the non-microsoft brand which is offering the better bargain for price to performance. Lunar lake won't be this cheap.
basically they would never lowered the prices and pocketed all the savings as profit
There's a bunch of different Snapdragon devies releasing now. The cheapest one in my country is the Acers Swift 14 with Snapdragon Plus. But compared to an entry level Macbook Air, it comes with 16GB of RAM and 1tb of storage, oh and a 120hz display.
So nothing surprising but also kind of concerning that nothing stands out as excellent considering it's a _paid_ advertisement choosing a ton of ARM native apps to show it in the best possible light. Especially when announced pricing isn't cheap. It looks like they _need_ to launch it now to minimize comparison to lunar lake coming out later in the year that's supposed to be a bigger improvement over meteor lake than meteor lake was over alder/raptor lake.
Still it's no slouch and more competition is a good thing.
Oh, I definitely agree this is one really teased out launch and I just to see the things in people's hands. At the same time, I'm very interested in any results because I keep expecting that football to get pulled away like all previous attempts to pivot consumers to non-x86.
The cynical part of me says people will just shrug and say that's cool--and they will just buy an Intel laptop like their last five laptops because that's what has always worked for them.
We'll see though...
@@FakeGordonMahUng Agreed. The launch just seems weird because you'd expect if the performance was really _that_ good they'd be shouting it from the tree tops like Apple did with the M1. The way they keep focusing on AI and battery life makes it look like they're either targeting a very specific consumer or they know it doesn't quite perform as good as they'd hoped. I hope we're wrong. Even if you have no interest in it competition helps keep Intel and AMD honest.
@@zodwraith5745they are clearly targeting the MacBook Air demographic where performance really isn’t the primary reason people get it, so I think the messaging all makes perfect sense.
@@Kyt2024yup, it’s gonna be a game dev/ blender machine for me like my m1 MacBook Air was. And if it can game as well as a steam deck, I’d be happy
Really, the snappiness of a consumer computer relies mostly on the single core performance as most consumer workloads are not multithreaded - it's when you start getting into video/audio editing, graphics design, or transcoding where you start to make use of those extra cores.
So … when you denigrate workloads like Speedometer 3.0 there's nothing in the test that's Apple specific - it simply points out that single core speeds are what the consumer notices. This test is what _I'd_ use to determine a computer's snappiness and speed.
Most consumers owning a computer with a zillion cores are simply running paying for a lot of idle cores sitting there soaking up power - unless the SoC is smart enough to shut down the idle cores (which my core-i9 10910 10c 20t 2020 iMac 5K clearly isn't).
It depends on the OS also. More cores can help distribute workload and prevent bottlenecking the 'single core'. Background tasks have to be performed as well (especially nowadays with AI and such), and they can noticeably slow down chips with low(er) multicore performance. That's why cheap CPU's often have multiple cores at a lower clockspeed: it enables them to run a modern OS quite well, but they will never push any application or multitasking experience to a 'snappy' feeling.
@@musje83 Yeah, I do notice at normal workloads a bunch of cores lighting up at minimal levels - almost looks like it's dispatching tasks to totally idle cores in an attempt to load level or round robining to _even the wear_ (which is sort of ridiculous when you think of it).
Much better to turn 'em off when not needed and light 'em up when needed - at least that way you're saving some energy.
so, m3 is still a better processor? let alone M4 coming soon.
... and the biased testing is against passive cooled M3 in a MacBook Air, not an active cooled M3 in a MacBookPro.
I think Nvidia version and AMD intel AI CPU will be better for those who want to play games because of much better GPU inside.
But qualcomm will own the thin and light market laptops without serious gpu power.
What is needed is special much more powerful media engines. And serious gpu power
It's rumored that Nvidia will release their own ARM based cpu/apu as well. And we are fairly certain that the Nintendo Switch 2 will be running on a new ARM chip by Nvidia.
This chip and Linux fedora is the build I want! ❤
The new Surface laptop is not fanless, unlike the MacBook Air, right?
Microsoft list the Laptop 7 with 54Wh for 13” and 66Wh for the 15” which is a massive leap over the 5 which I have. Always shocked by how poor the battery life is on the 5.
The Blender emulation data said "lower is better"...
The 13.8” has a 54Wh battery and the 15” has a 66Wh battery
Yup, it's published spec now, but wasn't when we cut this video.
Nice video Gordon. These laptops are more for business and not really for fun. Have to wait and see how badly they perform in gaming.
Yeah, these are all work, no fun devices in my opinion (although RUclips and Netflix are fun). But if you want gaming--get a laptop with discrete graphics inside. And frankly, with x86 too at this point. Although I am not 100 percent certain, but it does feel like we are quite a ways off before a primary gaming laptop will be running a Snapdragon X inside of it or any Arm chip.
@@FakeGordonMahUngCompanies use a bunch of legacy x86 apps. Emulation forever? MSFT will ask developers to support both x86 & ARM from now on? Really?
@@FakeGordonMahUngnvidia media trek arm.
Amd rx arm Intel arc later this year and maybe m4 as apple is looking at this closely and know gpu power gaming 3d blender etc are its main weakness with no upgradeable e eternal or pcie GPU s ever or ram or ssd.
I probably won't touch the X-Eiite until at least the third generation. I think by then they'll have all the issues ironed out.
No chapter marks, unfortunately. Watched the whole thing but somehow missed the promised emulation benchmarks.
Starts at 31:30, but missing chapters are unfortunate. Serious channels add them.
It’s no accident that they compared the most powerful of the new snapdragon chipsets to the absolute lowest in the range of M3 chips in a MacBook Air with no fan.
How about we see it compared to a MacBook Pro M3 max and see what the results are like.
They have an MSI prestige there. The comparison is so unbalanced that it actually makes the snapdragon look worse because of it. Compare the binned snapdragon to this binned M3 in fanless MacBook Air.
Even a base MBPro with M3 would have made the pre-release Snapdragon chips look underwhelming, which is why they made the unfair test against a passively cooled Air chassis application of the M3.
Let's not forget that the MS surface is a pre-order and not yet shipping. The Apple M4 SoC has been released and will be in the MacBook range within months of the new MS surface laptops hitting the shelves.
its a first gen, so it should be compared to the M1 not the M3, so yeah its not fair for the snapdragon
@@AdamGamingARK hahahaha, the M1 was released in 2020!
That was 4yrs ago, which is a very long time in the world of tech advancements.
You want to give Qualcomm a 4yr handicap? That's hilarious.
I sincerely hope you're being sarcastic.
@@AdamGamingARK if this chip came out in late 2019 then that would make sense.
The reason this chip is as good as it is, is because Qualcomm bought Nuvia, which is ex-apple chip designers.
It’s a good chip, but you have to compare it to what’s on the market now.
I do not think something being dead silent is something positive, especialy so when it sacrifices performance. A little bit of sound is fine.
Thanks for the video, but the simple fact that even right before release we have to rely on carefully curated information tells me all I need to know about the platform. If it really were such a step-up, legitimate reviewers would be drowning in pre-production samples to help toot their horn.
Multithread perfomance + NPU + battery = killer combination of snapdragon x
Snapdragon X Elite 🚀 🚀 🚀
It's "X Elite", not "Elite X".
Most battery for copilot+pc laptops seem t be 70whr. Let’s see what the surface snapdragon x elite. Amazing if surface spx is really 46 whr
It looks like Microsoft has since published the full specs of the laptop (I swear it wasn't there last week) and it's not 46Whr but 64-66Whrs.
Very interesting.
but.., I think the winner of this year's fanless laptop will be the Lunar lake
Percentages when Elite X is ahead are wrong, even on the report. I.E.: 1.00x vs 0.7x Elite X is about 43% better instead of 30%. You can say that 0.7x is 30% slower than Elite X but not the opposite.
ARC outperforming Adreno is sad to see
the battery in the snapdragon surface is 59 Wh, which gives me hope for the Acer Swift with its 75 Wh battery and IPS display
Hmm, where are seeing the battery capacity? For the life of me, I am unable to find it listed on Microsoft's specs page.
@@saccam thank you i seem to have misremembered the capacity, maybe i mixed it up with another laptop
@@saccam Thanks!
The core problem faced by PCs using Qualcomm chips is the adaptation of application softwares and APPs, which is a software ecosystem problem.
The previous generation of Qualcomm chip PC, namely the surface pro X, died because there were not enough compatible software and the software that was adapted on the surface had too many bugs.
采用高通芯片的PC电脑所面临的核心难题，是应用软件、和APP的适配问题，是软件生态问题。
前一代的高通芯片PC，也就是 surface pro X， 是死在兼容软件不够多，和表面上适配的软件还有太多毛病。
The Surface Pro X sucks because it is horribly slow, no matter what it runs. (The browser tests in which it's getting crushed here are certainly arm native)
The emulator situation doesn't help but I don't think it's the primary issue
Wrong a home court advantage would be using Safari with 15% better performance than Chrome :P
Guaranteed they didn't use quicktime player for proper hardware decoding on the Air
I doubled playback performance when I hackingtoshed a windows laptop
I’ve been running Adobe Lightroom Classic on all of my M series Macs and even my M series iPads (edit: my mistake, only the full Lightroom runs on iPadOS, I’m wrong about Lightroom Classic running on iPad OS), where it runs ARM native as well, for YEARS. I’m really confused about why they left it out of that test when it is one of the best examples in my mind of professional apps on ARM. I just double checked and Adobe released the native ARM version of Lightroom Classic in 2021. It runs ridiculously fast on ARM which is why it is kind of shocking to not see the M3 MacBook AIR in that test.
I'm guessing Signal65 did that because Lightroom Classic is still more popular (I personally am no fan of Lightroom no-classic) and there's an existing PugetBench test--and it's not native performance.
@@FakeGordonMahUng Thank you! The thing my brain skipped right over is the lack of the PugetBench test that could be used for the Mac in that scenario. I’m with you on not being a fan of “Lightroom”. I will always use Lightroom Classic because I don’t want to use Adobe’s cloud storage.
It is interesting to see how 155h performs ... I have a 185h with 64GB ram, bought it for about $2600 and using it for lightroom and davinci resolve is a joke ... painfully slow, adding a simple transition or effect (for proxy videos) kills it quickly ... and the worst is that if you use these windows laptops from battery, It is absolutely unusable, like it would use 20-30% of it's power ... (yes, in best performance mode) ... so I'm trying to sell it and grab a macbook quickly, but I'm also curious about the snapdragon performance for video and image editing.
There's no testing done here. It's just reading of a report.
the fact they didnt even try to test it against a those new ryzen apu make no sense...
r 8000 series is basically r 7000 series with AI slapped on which was slight improvement to r 6000 series that was improvement over r 5000 series but with rdna 2 igpus
ryzen desktop processors are great but laptop processors have been just above average at best, not to mention AMD not delivering enough chips that majority of laptops prominently comes with intel
Not that meaningful comparison actually, because those different models are not using the same process nodes, Apple will always have an advantage simply because it will always use the best , smalleest and most advanced nodes.
and how you play games in your Steam library with ARM CPU???? what non sense is that???? We need to keep X86 CPU.
So, Arrow Lake, Zen 5 and Apple M4 driven notebooks and laptops are going to easily beat this.
Check.
The Apple M3 devices are already more expensive than the new Surface devices.
@@rowaystarco Apple has always been more expensive, what's your point?
@@scod3908 That price to performance matters to some
And Ryzen is missing because?
I suspect they didn't have one or felt it was too much to juggle. I know people will key off of it being a paid report, but there are results that give the win to Apple and Intel as well. I would have liked to have seen modern Ryzen as well.
We also didn't see a lot of Ryzen during last CES for some reasons. I didn't even realize Ryzen was missing in these benchmarks until I red your comment, lol.
SNAPDRAGON X ELITE ❤WINDOWS ARM
It's disappointing to hear about the noise in the Snapdragon X Elite as it goes against the idea of using an ARM CPU.
Why does it go against the idea? Even Apple couldn't make all their ARM-powered laptops fanless, and they have been building custom chips for many years now.
Although I am a windows user, but I still believe Mac os is far better from Windows
SNAPDRAGON X ELITE ❤❤
Lowr is better for Blender friend. Whoooops...
idk why ppl want it to be silent like a phone, if you run any chip at 90°C+ its going to destroy the thing in 4 years. i rather have the fan running to cool it and keep it at 70°C or so and 30-40 on normal use case than 70-80 all times just so it can be quiet. i have seen soo many laptops that have stopped working because of this.
ARM is cooler but it still uses 25w and upto 80w and seeing how apple is pushing upwards of 100°C+ on their M3 laptops, its kinda concerning.
I think we trust in the thermal engineers (fingers crossed) and while a properly designed and cooled laptop is ideal, I think we can agree the fan noise can be excessive in x86-based laptops. AMD laptops used to be quite quiet but they too have resorted to cranking up clocks and power consumption and fans lately.
Intel did try fanless with Core M but gave up on it. I think that's why people are so very excited to see if these Snapdragon X laptops seriously trim the acoustics and heat back.
Let's also hope Lunar Lake brings its A-game too.
I think we just gotta wait.
Not sure if nvidia wants to convert any PC into copilot+ with higher power usage than npu. They should have tested 13"instead of 15 which means Microsoft still hasn't cooled it properly yet again.
Amd and Intel have caught up with next gen due release while oryon first gen which is still shipping in volume and yet to reach mainstream availability. Not even sure even next gen oryon comes up.
They didn't do a test on video streaming.. something any x86 based CPU whether it be an Intel or AMD chip, is very bad in efficiency. Dell's leak reveals the X Elite version of the same XPS 13 model with Meteor Lake had 89% more run time.
Dell didn't leak anything, it's stated as part of its performance claims I believe. And no, not everyone can test all aspects of a device and battery run down can literally take takes to perform. HP also had some impressive streaming testing I believe too. Just because Signal65 didn't do that test doesn't mean it was left out. For all we know, they didn't have the time to complete that kind of testing and may have been limited by the constraints. Local video playback is also more reliable in general since you control it and you are not dependent on Wi-Fi or other random Internet-related issues.
No the M4 iPad is fastest :P
Is that mac book air only cooler because it's CPU throttles faster granny at the mall?
I suspect it's just tuned to be a fanless, thin laptop. I've tested a MacBook Pro 16 in the past and it is indeed very impressive how quiet and cool it runs. We can't just be haters to be haters...
ARM Macbooks are just incredibly efficient nowadays. My M2 Max only uses 5-10 watts while browsing or watching youtube in comparison to my 7800X3D 4090FE system that uses 60 watts at idle.
@@Saiklohit You missed the point. Many have documented that the Air has the same chip as the better laptop. But it performs way less because Apple chooses to not have a fan. So, all the abilities of the CPU are therefore wasted.
@@FakeGordonMahUng I'm just saying they leave performance on the floor in the name of having no fans. Maybe apple hates fans for the sake of being a hater.
@@thesupremeginge you have just succinctly explained why these paid tests are heavily biased; they compared a fan-cooled Snapdragon product to a fan-less M3 MacBook Air and not a fan-cooled M3 MacBook Pro.
If they had to make that arguably unfair comparison, you can read between the lines...
The new and improved M4 SoC is already released, and will be in the Macbook range within months of the Microsoft Surface units shipping. We just need Apple to realise the competition has caught up with them, and make base memory 16GB to compete.
We gotta stop taking geekbench seriously, it says that the 7800x3d outperforms the 5950x in *multicore* and there isnt a single workload on earth that would reflect that other than that benchmark. Lol
Then how would people argue on Twitter? (: I hear you though, but it has improved quite a bit over the years. I found that both Cinebench 2024 and Geekbench seem to have changed multi-core performance from previous versions myself. Both have cited and documented the reasons I believe.
Local video playback, seriously?
Can't beat Apple.
In what regard?
ARM uses lots less energy than x86-64. What's the news then huh? I guess it must be that an x86 alternative now exists that can run Windows and its apps well and is present in lots of products. If it can eventually game as well as something like a R7 7800X3D, then it might be all over for x86.
Then again, if it is really this efficient but also very powerful, then how come all the AI investors are not snapping up the Snapdragon? Pun intended. No super size AI chips I guess (AI is done on server size CPUs, or on GPUs).
I bet the miners are looking into a new product that mines using ARM. If there is uptake of a coin like that, then miners would make a bunch of money due to energy savings.
P.S. I wonder if Snapdragon can get carbon credits when users switch to it from x86? The energy savings are large. There's big money in providing energy savings (polluters buy credits which works kind of like an indulgence to sin from the Pope).
windows 11 though.... no thanks
M3 is not latest M4 is