This sketch of this Scherzo in C minor as well as an unrelated Presto in F major were completed and orchestrated by Susan M. Filler (1948 - 2017), in the early 1980's. Alban Berg made a thorough study of both sketches and concluded that they dated from the first half of Mahler's composing career (1890's - 1902) and had nothing to do with the full length draft of the 10th Symphony. There is an article from 1984 by Filler documenting her analysis and completion of both sketches which I don't believe have ever been performed. I myself attempted a completion of the Presto in F after I had finished my own performing version of the 10th Symphony, but decided not to continue because the sketch of the Presto falls well below Mahler's high standards.
Hello Gerd, thank you for sharing this! I’ve been aware of this sketch’s existence for a couple of years, but I never felt motivated enough to decipher more than a page or two! At certain points, it sounds like an early version of the second movement of his Symphony No. 2 (around 7:00 in your completion, for example).
I find it amazing how you make so much out of so little notes. Am I insulting you if I find it sounds more like Schumann? I know Mahler did some re-orchestrations of Schumann, but I am not sure that is what you were going for ;-) Anyway, top work! Very interesting.
It has some resemblance to Schumann’s 3rd, but I think it’s because the dynamics don’t come out in this computer rendition. I can imagine this sounding a lot like moments in the 1st or 3rd movements of Mahler’s 2nd with proper dynamics.
@@engelbertschoormans Haha, there is indeed a funny resemblence 😀 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarabe_Tapat%C3%ADo. ruclips.net/video/i6RsOk5UL-U/видео.htmlsi=gmp64LP8xN3Zdco-
@@gerdprengel7616 Hi again, Unfortunately i dont have it digitalized, it is in the Morgan Library and Museum in New York, there they have some Sketches of Mahler works, including the Presto in F, the Scherzo isnt in their domain, i tried to look it up in IMSLP and theres only the Scherzo, ill try to contact them to see if they can lend me a digitalized version but it had to take time, the only time ive seen the manuscrip was really superficially and is even less material to work with than the Scherzo, sorry for any confusion, if i get it ill update you!.
That's a very interesting find (I didn't know of that sketch, yet) and an ambituous task you took on yourself. Knowing every finished Mahler work very well, I have to say that except for the middle part it doesn't sound very Mahlerian to me, and some passages don't convey a very striking logic musically. It just meanders astray, doesn't get to a point, relies too much on the obstinate movement of eighth notes, but this motion gets boring and empty very soon without revealing any substance and depth. I think the sketch is too thin to really reveal what Mahler intended to do, how many layers are still missing, how the lonely lines were to be interpreted harmonically etc. I don't mean to denegrate the effort you took into this project, don't get me wrong. I appreciate your work very much and find it interesting to learn about a piece Mahler started to work on but didn't finish. It gives insight into his working process. And you provide us with a possibility and opportunity to experience this unknown Mahler project. But I think if Mahler had proceeded in finishing it he would have added a lot of material we only can speculate on and he might have changed some things to give them more direction and meaning.
@@FranzKaernBiederstedt Thank you for your long response to this project, but I don't agree with your assessment. For me in this Scherzo there is more tension and excitement, passion and substential material than in many other Scherzos, especially of course in the Trio part, which you also seem to acknowledge, when I understand you correctly....
![Gustav Mahler's unfinished Scherzo in C minor [Orchestrated by me]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zhpfyQhb0qg/mqdefault.jpg)
I have never heard of this piece before, thank you so much for completing it and allowing us to hear it for the first time. Awesome stuff.
This sketch of this Scherzo in C minor as well as an unrelated Presto in F major were completed and orchestrated by Susan M. Filler (1948 - 2017), in the early 1980's. Alban Berg made a thorough study of both sketches and concluded that they dated from the first half of Mahler's composing career (1890's - 1902) and had nothing to do with the full length draft of the 10th Symphony. There is an article from 1984 by Filler documenting her analysis and completion of both sketches which I don't believe have ever been performed. I myself attempted a completion of the Presto in F after I had finished my own performing version of the 10th Symphony, but decided not to continue because the sketch of the Presto falls well below Mahler's high standards.
Hello Gerd, thank you for sharing this! I’ve been aware of this sketch’s existence for a couple of years, but I never felt motivated enough to decipher more than a page or two! At certain points, it sounds like an early version of the second movement of his Symphony No. 2 (around 7:00 in your completion, for example).
Wonderful, you've done a terrific job! ♥
I find it amazing how you make so much out of so little notes. Am I insulting you if I find it sounds more like Schumann? I know Mahler did some re-orchestrations of Schumann, but I am not sure that is what you were going for ;-) Anyway, top work! Very interesting.
@@markokassenaar4387 Schumann??? What work by him does have any resemblence to that Mahler work??
@@gerdprengel7616 Not a specific piece per se, but passages, the orchestration, the ostinato rhythms, the overall musical gestures.
It has some resemblance to Schumann’s 3rd, but I think it’s because the dynamics don’t come out in this computer rendition. I can imagine this sounding a lot like moments in the 1st or 3rd movements of Mahler’s 2nd with proper dynamics.
Me parece un triunfo ,AMIGO{Me,recuerda,un,poco un,tema,popular,mexicano}
I know, someone else pointed this out already ;-)
Why does the theme remind me of El Jarabe Tapatio? 🤣
@@engelbertschoormans Haha, there is indeed a funny resemblence 😀 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarabe_Tapat%C3%ADo. ruclips.net/video/i6RsOk5UL-U/видео.htmlsi=gmp64LP8xN3Zdco-
My first thought!
Id love to hear the presto to even if inferior to Mahler standars, Ive known the sketch for a while but i never went too deep on it.
oh, if you have the Presto draft - can you send it to me? I would love to bring it to our ears! --> email(ad)gerdprengel.de !!
@@gerdprengel7616 Hi again, Unfortunately i dont have it digitalized, it is in the Morgan Library and Museum in New York, there they have some Sketches of Mahler works, including the Presto in F, the Scherzo isnt in their domain, i tried to look it up in IMSLP and theres only the Scherzo, ill try to contact them to see if they can lend me a digitalized version but it had to take time, the only time ive seen the manuscrip was really superficially and is even less material to work with than the Scherzo, sorry for any confusion, if i get it ill update you!.
It reminds me more of Bruckner.
That's a very interesting find (I didn't know of that sketch, yet) and an ambituous task you took on yourself. Knowing every finished Mahler work very well, I have to say that except for the middle part it doesn't sound very Mahlerian to me, and some passages don't convey a very striking logic musically. It just meanders astray, doesn't get to a point, relies too much on the obstinate movement of eighth notes, but this motion gets boring and empty very soon without revealing any substance and depth. I think the sketch is too thin to really reveal what Mahler intended to do, how many layers are still missing, how the lonely lines were to be interpreted harmonically etc. I don't mean to denegrate the effort you took into this project, don't get me wrong. I appreciate your work very much and find it interesting to learn about a piece Mahler started to work on but didn't finish. It gives insight into his working process. And you provide us with a possibility and opportunity to experience this unknown Mahler project. But I think if Mahler had proceeded in finishing it he would have added a lot of material we only can speculate on and he might have changed some things to give them more direction and meaning.
@@FranzKaernBiederstedt Thank you for your long response to this project, but I don't agree with your assessment. For me in this Scherzo there is more tension and excitement, passion and substential material than in many other Scherzos, especially of course in the Trio part, which you also seem to acknowledge, when I understand you correctly....
Hi how are you? Dp you have the .sib or MusicXML file of this? Tysm !
in the description, you now find a link to the pdf File - Thank you for your interest ...
@gerdprengel7616 Tysm !!! Good evening and have a good rest of the day!