Using Paver Base Panels for Paver Patios | Fastest Way to Lay
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Using paver base panels for paver patios and walkways will help you save time money. These help to insulate, support, and displace the weight above them to create a system that will last for a significant amount of time allowing you to provide your clients with a quality end product.
They also provide installers with numerous benefits that make the laying of pavers more efficient. All of these and more are covered in this video on installing these paver base panels.
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Man I’m glad I found this video. Saved me so much time and I needed to excavate less too! The cost was worth it also made the installation a breeze. Was my first patio and was very beginner friendly
Amazing! Glad it helped!
You say that the paver panels costs more. That may be true for contractors buying the paver gravel in bulk. But I just found that the paver panels are 3 times less expansive then if you buy the paver gravel in bags at Lowes. Thanks for the video.
oh yeah that would be for sure. i would never recommend going the gravel bag route for an entire paver project.
Who would buy gravel in bags,?? Lol
Fantastic video and super helpful. There is one small detail I'm having trouble figuring out. I love the bedding/screed layer idea under the paver base. When you say 1/4" Chip though, does that mean a 1/4”-10 Clean Crushed Rock? I read through your blog but am having trouble finding a lot of information on exactly why type of 1/4" stone/gravel I should use. You mention ASTM #8 in the blog, but when I looked that up it's coming up with a 3/8" sizing.
Appreciate the help.
Yeah, 1/4” to 3/8” as long as it is angular crushed and clean / washed. No fines
Hi, I have been watching mostly all of your videos and a BIG Thank you for the education you have given to me!!! I am interested in using the base panels but concerned about how they hold up long term. Can you provide any knowledge you may have regarding how they last? THANK YOU!!
The product has been on the market for a little more than 10 years now. The company claims no warranty callbacks from contractors and many other competitors have made a similar product. My oldest project with it is 5 years and it still looks incredible. This same material is used in foundation pours, bridge construction, and a lot more heavy work. That being said there are some projects I would not use it on. You do need to dig down to your clay or sandy subsoil, so if you dig down and it is more than 4" or so, I would just install a regular base. If your patio is single sloped and simple from the foundation to the back of your yard, I would use them. But if you are paving around a pool which has multiple slopes I probably wouldn't use them again for that.
Thank you for your reply and valuable information! So, I've been digging all afternoon and two problems have arose and I would love to know what you would do. #1 - I'm 7 inches down and I'm still digging topsoil. #2 - the sprinkler system main hose runs under the center of this future paver patio and is only at 7 inches deep! At this depth I'm starting to see some sand. Should I resort to a low profile wood deck or can this paver patio still happen? AGH - I have worked so hard on this area but ready to move on if it can't happen. Thanks so much for all your information and expertise!
You can run it through your base. It’s not ideal but it works. Best to re route it if possible just in case it would need to be repaired or replaced in the future
Great video. And you do excellent work.
Thank you!
Can you please share instructions for installing the drainage system for a whole backyard pavers installation project?
Yes in a future video I can cover that. It is always different depending on the project, base, and surroundings.
You’re the only person I have seen using HPB instead of sand.
Really? Where are you located? It is used a lot in northern climates
@@iamahardscaper I’m in the GTA. What I mean is HPB and then synthetic paver base. I guess you had zero problems using HPB as the manufactures for synthetic bases say to use sand - which I hate.
Ahh Gotchya. Yeah they do say concrete sand, but they also allow for HPB (Alliance at least)
I’ll be using hpb as well. Debating between 0.5” and 1” though
@@JackRoll-vw7ikthanks to this channel and @iamahardscaper answering some questions I was able to find out that Brock and gator although they share concepts, gator is a superior product. It is not available at big box stores, so you will need to call alliance and find out who has it. Gator is more expensive per panel but you can use HPB with gator and you can’t use HPB with brock. Gator also locks together where as brock just interlaces and often does move under your feet. Just follow what this guy did on this channel as his process is perfect as per manufacturers instructions. 1/2” is what is indicated on the gator site but I think 1” is probably easier to spread with pipe.
Sorry for asking another question. If my ground is too low, can I raise with three-quarter crushed clean stone to bring up height, tamp really good, then fabric, then 1/4 crushed then panels, then pavers? Again I thank you for your last response
Yup just make sure you compact. And if you are needing to raise it a good amount, I would do nonwoven fabric first then do 3/4” clean and you can do another layer of fabric or just screed 1/4” and then panels
Hi, thanks for the video! My project is similar. A paver patio with a curved sitting wall and straight sitting wall on opposite sides. Total project area is about 400 sq ft. I realize that putting the sitting wall on the paver base panels is not ideal because of the slope for the patio. I see in this video that you did your wall on a traditional base and the patio on paver base panels. What is your recommended order of operations to do this? Any pro tips for this type of "hybrid base" project; wall on traditional and level base, patio pavers on sloped paver base panels. Thanks!
Yes, exactly. Start with your walls and then prepare the remainder of the patio. It is not overly complicated unless you are trying to get the right measurement to ensure you end on a full or half stone at the opposing end of the project from the wall. If that is the case, just take your time and measure twice.
Great video! I'm trying to do this myself in my backyard. Do I really need the paver edging? Or could I do without it?
Definitely need the edging
Great video! thank you for sharing.
I'm in the process of replacing my old pavers with porcelain pavers and also will be extending the area to one side. I will be using the synthetic base as well.
Question:
given that I already removed the OLD pavers, there is some sand already there (used before for the bedding) - do you believe it will be a problem if I use HPB in the new side ??
what options would you recommend:
a) one side sand and the other HBP?
b) should I just stick to sand as the bedding layer? meaning , just continue using sand?
c) get rid of the sand, and just use HBP for the entire area?
d) mix the old sand and HPB into one and compact (this is probably the worst idea...LOL)
thanks again for your help - your videos are GREAT
Thanks for the comment! You could always place your nonwoven geotextile on top of the sand, your HPB, then paver base panels for the porcelain assuming you have the height to do that. Because you need to get that geotextile down before your bedding layer, you are going to have to move that sand off the area and then back on top of the geotextile. I’d just stick to the sand if that is what you opt to do as long as there was no contamination (dirt in the joints of the old pavers that made its way down into the sand). If that is the case, dispose of the sand and opt for the HPB for sure!
Hope that helps!
@@iamahardscaper thank you once again - this info helps me out a lot. I actually just finished sweeping sand from one side to the other half so that I can do exactly what u stated (to lay the weed fabric layer before the sand).... Thanks again, sir.
Take care and keep the great RUclips channel going... It's by far one of the best channels I've seen on this topic.
If I were to use this system, but I wanted a space in the middle to put a prefabricated standalone fire pit, should I cut the paver panels around that space and just fill that space with marble chips? Would I have to dig down deeper in that section where the panels wouldn’t be?
It depends on what the standalone fire pit looks like. Most likely you are removing the panels from that spot and installing it.
Great video! One question: would geogrid further strengthen the base or is that not necessary when using these panels?
No, it’s best to have 4” of material on top of geogrid for best results. And the base panels cover the stabilization aspect that geogrid provides
For sub-soil prep, to get the proper slope (⅛ inch per foot) prior to compacting would you recommend screeding a layer of soil or just generally getting the slope correct using a rake?
just get it roughly correct with a rake
@@iamahardscaper Thanks Appreciate it and all your videos. It's super helpful
Thanks for mentioning the name of the interior pavers (tech bloc blu grande). What is the name of the darker edge pavers? Thanks!
Gorgeous paver slabs. Can you tell us the brand and type? Also the first time I’ve seen the pneumatic lifter, that looks handy!
It definitely is handy. They are Techo Bloc Blu Grande HD2
Where to buy the lifter tool
Do you have a video on paver brands ? What would recommend
Try contacting your local landscape supply yard and see what they carry or recommend.
I happen to already have 1 1/2” conduit to use as screed bars. Does the extra 1/2 inch in the screed layer matter?
That would be the maximum you’d want to go. So your base would have to be perfect. Careful with the flex in conduit too
I want to make a raised patio to avoid damaging my old tree. Would you recommend using the panels over a crushed clean stone?
If it is a raised patio, you are going to need to dig for the wall around your raised patio. That may be a problem with potential damage to the tree. The panels would be a fairly good solution, but you may still get roots that will eventually push up on the patio.
@@iamahardscaper thank you 👍
Would this product be good to place under shed/foundation so wood avoids touching concerte when it rains? I'm assuming this should hold up being under ground with acidic soils.
That is a great question. I would reach out to Alliance Gator to see what they say about that.
03:55 what do you mean by organic? How do I know the difference of the organic vs subsoil?
Any topsoil, roots, etc that will decompose. Subsoil is clay, sandy, silt or a mixture.
@@iamahardscaper thank you :)
Great Mike, I agree they're also perfect for us DIYers AND being able to meld two separate bases into one (3/4 old screening and 1/4 compacted clay soil!! A quick question if I may?
My panels are all down now. I'm feeling apprentice about one thing. If (IF) there is a 1/16" to 1/8" variance in flatness across the area of a panel since HPB was used and using 14"x28" slab pavers there could be a minute rocking.
Yes, a hand tamper could fix high spots but for micro valleys do you think sprinkling some polymer sand in the area and misting it with water would fix the potential issue?
Hope that makes sense. 😲
What we do is lay the entire patio and then go back to any variances to put some concrete sand down on top of the panel and put the paver back down. Once you lay, you will see where those variances are greater that will need to be fixed.
@@iamahardscaper That's brilliant thanks. Makes sense too, provided one can remove a laid slab.
Vacuum tools work will for this, or two flat head screw drivers that allow you to pry it up.
@@iamahardscaper but that would damage the top of it and adjacent slabs wouldn't it?
What about those edge gripper things that act like vice grips?
I do not quite know those. Prying them up with something will slightly scuff the edge of the one you are using for leverage. Depending on the width of the slabs, there are handy tools that I use to pick them up, search Bon Tools on amazon. Vacuum lifters are ideal.
Thanks for the video 🤟🏾
Thank you for watching and commenting!
Great Vid. Is this way of doing it OK for the north east and what type of fabric is that. Is a porous for water to penetrate for drainage? Thanks
Thank you! Yes, we are located in Toronto. Fabric is nonwoven. Yes the holes in the base pads are for drainage.
It seems very interesting 👌🤩
It is 👍
Great content, what's your opinion on Gator base under synthetic Grass? Ty
I probably wouldn’t use it for that. When you use it for pavers, it has a little give when you walk on the pavers until the sand is installed in the joints. I think that’d be annoying under turf
When you say a wood burning firepit cant be installed, do you mean straight on the pavers or can I not even put one of the metal firepits which burn wood?
Straight on the base, but I also don’t know how much affect one of those metal fire pits would have on the panels
Question if the sub soil already have a slope do I still need to add a picth with the base
Yes, the slope should be mimicked on each layer of the build
But will it save you in labor but cost a little more in materials?
Yes, more in materials but less in labor.
@@iamahardscaper lol awesome. All jokes aside, great video. I’m going to attempt something like this at a larger scale hopefully on the near future
Nice
The most similar base material I can find near me is 3/8” Basalt. Does this work for the bedding layer? Or if not should I go sand? Im located in the SF Bay Area
without seeing it, it sounds like that would work
Great video. I'm having a hard time sourcing HPB where I live in Denver. I've checked both the landscape supply companies as well as the big box stores. Any advice on how to source it?
I would check with other landscape companies in your area and see if they are using it and where they are getting it. It likely is not called HPB where you are. Look for 1/4" to 3/8" clean angular crushed stone.
Hi, Thank You for the video. Question: If you do polymeric sand, do you still need to compact the pavers on top of the panels? Could they get damaged by a plate compactor?
Yes, still need to consolidate the sand. They can get damaged by the compactor so you should use something to protect them like a mat under the compactor
what its the brand for those rectangular pavers looks great. what size are those 24*12
They are Techo Bloc Blu Grande. I believe they are 19.5 x 33
Do you have a link to those edge restraint screws? They almost just look like drywall anchors but I want to get the right thing
I don’t, but any place that sells Gator Base should have access to them. Check a dealer near you that is a stone supplier
I have 400 sq ft pavers in backyard, but the previous owner made some strange pattern that I don't like, and it grows moss, so I wanna pave again. My question is, can I use this on the old pavers directly?
No, you would want to remove those and see what the base looks like below those and start from scratch with fabric, 1” bedding layer, then these panels, and your pavers.
Do you use woven or non woven fabric when laying with Brock paver base? And have you tried the gator base screws for paver base applications too?
Non woven.
And yes, I love the screws for the plastic edge restraint on the panels
@@iamahardscaper thanks. I purchased woven so guess I need to return that and get the non woven haha
@@iamahardscaper will there be issues using woven?
I don't think so as long as your subsoil is sloped properly after your excavation. The idea behind using non-woven is that you want to promote drainage because the panels already promote stabilization (main benefit of the woven geotextile)
Hi, thank you so much for the explanation! I have a question. I got a backyard where the slope is a bit too steep, so I would like to add a retaining wall at the end of the slope. Can I still use this synthetic base layer to lay my patio in this situation?
It likely wouldn’t make sense to at that point. You’d probably be better off with an open graded base because if you’re building a raised patio you’re already needing to build it up.
Do you feel any give or flex from those panels ? It looks like they are plyable
There is flex until the pavers are laid and then when the jointing compound is installed, it locks everything up.
Thanks so much for this video! Will these panels support a hot tub?
Thanks for watching! No they will not
Im thinking about doing this in a small area that is roughly 11' x 15', but I have nowhere to run drainage to the street. Would a dry well work well with this method? Or would it quickly be overwhelmed since the paver base panels arent super permeable? Also... may be a dumb question, but are you even able to lay pavers over a dry well? would it maintain the weight?
If your subsoil is able to take water, yes a dry well would work. There are blocks you can use to build a dry well that you can build on top of. They are like milk crates. I know OASE Atlantic sells them I just don’t know what they are called
@@iamahardscaper I already bought an NDS FWAS24 50 Gallon dry well… I probably should have done my research first, but do you think this would work? Really appreciate your help!
I would reach out to NDS and see what they think
Great video! Question. Say if I dig 10 inches, then lay bricks flat and stack them 3 high, lay the paver base, and the paver on top... I would assume that would be stabile, and still allow water to get through. Would you find this acceptable or problematic?
Thank you for watching! I wouldn’t try it personally. These panels reduce excavation, so you only really need to dig 4 inches. Bricks are not used as base, you want an angular crushed stone that can be compacted and allow for the drainage of water.
@@iamahardscaper wouldnt the bricks still allow drainage if they are not cemented ?
Bricks are not angular crushed and engineered to act as base material. With any movement, they will shift, slide, and displace very easily. Angular crushed gravel is use as base material for this reason. Hope that helps!
@@iamahardscaper gotcha, thanks for letting me know. Great video again!
Really seems like this base can help with water run off when using a clean stone below them. Do they work week with techo bloc blu 60?
I have experienced some issues with the 6x13 (small rectangles) along the borders and them having a little bit of movement ever after installing polymeric sand.
@@iamahardscaper think it may worth putting a dab of adhesive down?
I do not think it would hold too well unfortunately. And I still don't think that would reduce the movement.
@@iamahardscaper sounds liek the best solution is a border stone, great edge restraint, and a wide enough base material.
Can you please send link to buy those paver panels
You can’t buy them online, but if you search Gator Base you can contact them and find a dealer near you
hi I live in Tn. am unable to find No. 9 clean stone can you tell me what ASTM means and is no. 8 stone usable under the panels for patio blocks.
Yes 8 or 9s. It is a 1/4” to 3/8” angular crushed clear stone no fines. ASTM is the American Standard Testing Something
I want to build an outdoor kitchen with a pizza ive that weight 1200-1500 lbs can this item hold the weight
No, but I would look at Easy Click Base instead or preparing the outdoor kitchen on a concrete slab and still using this product around it for the pavers
why "nonwoven" fabric, and what is it?
Drainage is important for these panels, not reinforcement. Nonwoven is a felt like fabric.
What type steel pipes are those? Where can I buy them?
Gas pipes you can get them at any hardware store
@@iamahardscaper Thank you
I live on soggy silt soil that is mushy. Is pouring a concrete patio and putting pavers on top the only way to guarantee they wont ever sink? I am in low lying in florida. Swampy and low on the water table.
That would likely be the best option for you. It would not guarantee that they never sink, but you are putting in the effort to ensure that they don’t with the best practices.
@@iamahardscaper Thanks . As far as the soft ground. When it comes to doing the standard ground level vs elevated off the ground 10 to 14", is there one less likely to sink and move on softer ground? Can you go with more gravel in the elevated making it less likely to settle and sink over time?
You can definitely add geogrid to your soil before preparing your base to help settling and prepare your base on top. There are diminishing returns going deeper with your base prep. It’s all about stabilizing and preparing a compacted base.
SO why do you use a non-woven geotextile vs woven? you never mentioned why? you did mention why you used certain gravels. etc..
It is in the manufacturers specs. We have a video on woven vs non woven. Essentially woven is better for reinforcement and non woven is better for drainage. Since the panels are the reinforcement, you want the drainage capabilities of the non woven.
@@iamahardscaper Ahh, gotcha.. ok that makes sense .. I just dont want weeds coming up.. and I wondered woven would might be to tight?
For weeds, you're mostly worried about top-down growth rather than bottom-up. Keep your patio blown off especially in the spring and maybe pressure wash once a year. Install a good jointing compound and follow the directions carefully.
Can I put this over a concrete pad?
It’s not required over a concrete pad. We actually have a video on our channel called Installing Pavers Over Concrete that you can refer to 👍
Great video! Would you ever use this around a pool deck, or would that sub-base be too deep from the pool excavation? Can you use 3/4 clear to build up the base to the right height?
Thanks again :)
Yes, this is a perfect application. Exactly as you said. Just make sure you get proper compaction on that 3/4.
CAME OUT DAF
Thank you!
Hi. what's the difference between using that concrete sand (gravel?) or the paver sand they recommend over the subsoil ground with weed fabric? I ask because I am working on a patio project using PaverBase and I have some gravel/sand mix, but I thought that was maybe too rough, so I bought some general use paver sand (that's not that fine) - but I'm wondering if the 50/50 gavel sand mix would be okay as well.
If you are using these paver panels, you don’t want to use the gravel sand mixture. You want to use concrete sand to screed the area after the fabric. The gravel sand mixture is likely base material that would be used in a traditional installation not using these paver panels
@@iamahardscaper that's whati figured. Thank you so much.
@@iamahardscaper I didn't use the 50/50 mixture that I had, but it turns out that I made a mistake and purchased the Pavestone Paver Base multi-purpose (gray bag that's finer than what I had). Somehow I didn't order the leveling sand that's in the tan bag. :( other than ease of use , can I leave it this way? i did 1/2" of it under the panels and laid the paver over it.
@@omaryabby9444 I do not know what the multi-purpose bag of paver base is unfortunately. I just looked it up and it looks like it would be able to be used under the panels, but cannot confirm. If it is sandy and it levels the panels without inconsistencies that larger aggregates would cause, it should be good.
You don’t really explain if it will save on labor but cost more in materials
😂😂😂 this cracked me up
Would these perform well in Ohio winters? I read all these "pros" online that have nothing good to say about these but then never show proof of them failing.
I’m in Toronto. Yes they perform really well in freeze thaw. The company has never had a reported failure with these in 10 years on the market.