Thanks for doing a "progress report" after several years. Knowing the longer term results gives a lot more credibility to the initial install video. It will be interesting to see how well topping off the sand works out as opposed to blasting out the old sand.
4 years later, the amount of gravel I would need for my 12x12 patio's gravel base would cost about $200 more than these panels, so Im going with these panels 👏👏 thanks man lol
@@Andrew-dy1xi I hope you took the silence for a "no". Because such panels are designed to absorb a distributed and limited amount of weight. Gravel shifts into position, while these panels would slowly compress / bend / break over time. I couldn't tell you how long they would last, but certainly not long term.
I'm glad to hear the PaverBase system is holding up. We manufacture those panels. More and more people including contractors are switching to them. The savings in labor and warranty claims far outpaces the additional cost of the product.
The accountbility to hit all of everyones concerns, good or bad, is reall refreshing! Love the openness about the project and not sugarcoating, but just being honest about the effectivenesses and reflections.
Beautiful job. I watched your installation video too. You are to be commended for the nice job you did on the patio as well as your skills recording, narrating and editing. The three year follow up was great. As one who has been working on home improvement projects for 31 years, I can appreciate all your hard work. My next project is replacing the paver patio I installed 25 years ago because the railroad tie borders rotted out. Thank you.
I made a big paver walkway. The base was super compacted leveled sand. Seven years later and it’s in perfect condition withstanding severe Colorado weather. Yours looks great.
This is very depended on the underground. This works because his ground is good enough to have it like this. Where others might have problems. Like he said, he ain't no expert. yet made a video on what and how it was done. Feels like a amateur cook telling you how to make a 5 star meal at this point. But the review is nice to have for ppl that wonder on the material :) Nothing wrong with the video, he explaines it all very well and has the added info of "not a expert". So no one can blame him if they copy it and it go's wrong. Pure informative video.
It’s been 4 years since I did my patio and walkway with paver panels. It’s still solid. I used polymeric sand and there’s no weeds or moss. The professionals that did my brother-in-laws patio told him that regular sand was better for the joints. His whole patio is full of moss. Two years later I decided to put in an in-ground pool. They had to drive over my walkway and part of the patio with the machine to dig. We put sheets of plywood on the pavers to protect them. They held up pretty good. I think the panels provided some cushion for the pavers and kept them from breaking. I also did the pavers around the pool with panels. The only difference is that I used 1/4” open-graded base crushed gravel. The gravel allows water to flow freely without washing away. Two years later the pool deck still looks like I just installed it. Also the panels help insulate the ground, which probably helps with freeze, thaw issues.
Ive been doing hardscaping work for 10 years, Regular sand is the worst option for the joints. Get a good brand of poly sand like gator nitro or poly sweep
I have used those paver base panels for a couple of walkways here in South Florida. With our sandy soil, it's common for pavers to sink when done incorrectly. Using the the walkways I have done with the panels are weed free and level, even after 5 years. One of the walkways I did without them started getting wavy after just 1 year. I believe part of the advantage is that the panels help distribute the weight over a larger area, and they help block deep weeds.
Hey, i did my backyard using the same paver panels and it's been a year now. Still looks great! No sagging or weeds growing between the pavers. My area was twice the size as yours. I did exactly what you did and just moved the dirt to somewhere else. Some of the dirt i gave to my neighbors. Yes, using the panels costed me more money but time saved from digging up less dirt was all well worth it. Thank you for making an update video. Your paver patio still looks great!
Your patio is beautiful and you did fantastic work! As you're saying, as soil builds up between the pavers, you will get weeds, but they can't be deeply rooted with the weed block. In your case, that weed block is also helping your patio move water away from the house so it's acting as a water as well as weed barrier. The downside, as you learned, is that it concentrates pooling as well. The French drain was a great solution to the pooling. You could also create a rain garden at the edge of the patio if you have more slope below it, or even at the end of the French drain to help disburse the water. Unfortunately, polymeric sand and gravel only lasts about 2-3 years. You have to keep applying a binding agent to maintain it. You don't need to add sand if you stay on top of it. But, polymer based binding agents are highly polluting - you're essentially putting microplastics into the ground. A great solution to this is to use a cornstarch based binding agent. It is highly effective and will last a full year and won't create pollution. And there are now commercial polymeric sand and gravel binding products available using cornstarch.
Thanks for the 3 year update! Still looks as good as day 1. Perfection 👌! The French drain was a great addition also. And I'm sure the satisfaction of doing this project on your own is great in itself...also saving ALOT of $$
Thanks for the update! My husband and I used your original video to help guide us through our own replacement paver patio. We just finished up this weekend and I’m glad to see how yours has held up! Great work
Hi! What a timely video. We used your video as a reference to recreate a paver patio space in our backyard. Like you, we previously had pavers that had moss growth and weed between the joints. The installation was previously done with rock base and compacted but even still, they shifted and were no longer level. We also previously had used polymeric sand between the joints. What is different this time is how we prepared the base. I am so glad to see your result 3 years later as a reference. This time, we used the Brock Paver Base panels, and this past weekend, we just finished placing our stones. We need a few dry days to complete the polymeric sand. What I found most helpful about your first video was how to skreed the sand. When my husband was going rogue, I kept bringing him back to your video, insistent that we buy rebar and do it right. In the end we bought rebar and I skreed the sand. It was easy!!
Thanks for telling me of the update in your other video comment section. I ended up doing a paver patio last year after watching your video and some others. One thing I did that you didn’t was to use a concrete sealer 30 days or so after setting the polymeric sand. I sprayed it on the pavers and the polymeric joints and it prevents water from getting in. I haven’t had even one spot grow any weeds or grass. I plan to retreat it with the sealer every other year or maybe once a year. Moss likes to grow here too because of all the trees I have so I wanted to seal it the best I could. I spray my chimney with sealer so figured why not spray the pavers too.
100% the bricks would be wavy if you did a traditional install originally 😂. Getting the sand or gravel base to be properly compacted and not erode away due to weather and load is the most complex part of this kind of surface covering. Even experienced installers are coin flipping it sometimes.
He has returned! I followed your original video and did my own paver patio. I used packed gravel instead of the rubber pads though. Thanks for all your hard work!
The progress report is excellent! About 15 years ago, I installed a 50’ x 3’ paver walkway. For the base, I installed a 4” layer of 3/4” crushed rock, 2” of road mulch and a thin layer of coarse leveling sand before placing the pavers. Over the years, our wet, cold winters took a toll, causing the walkway to heave and sag. Ants also built nests within the sand layer, undermining the leveling course and gaps opened up to allow weeds and grass to root and cause more damage. In short, it was a mess. Last spring, I removed all the pavers and fixed the sub base but opted to use the paver panels on top of my leveling course. At first, i was skeptical that the product would perform any better than before. I was also concerned about lateral shift that would form gaps between the pavers, but after more than a year, the walkway looks as good today as the day I re-finished it 😊 In my initial installation, I used poly sand for the joints, but opted not to on the re-installation, partly because the joints were already tight, but also because I didn’t want to introduce sand to give the ants another go at messing up my hard work. Polymeric sand is expensive and may not be needed if your joints are tight like mine are. With good perimeter support (I used a plastic retention edge, anchored with 8” spikes), there is little to no risk of movement, in my experience. Two big advantages to this product; 1. The insulative value of the panels resists freezing of the sub base layer, preventing heaving through wet and freezing winter months. 2. If I ever need to pull up the pavers to run a conduit or waterline underneath, it’s super easy to take them apart, lift the panels, install the conduit, then put everything back together. I’m planning to re & re another walkway on the side of my house next spring using the same paver panels and add a new patio in the back corner of my property with this product. This product is a fantastic invention that not only makes the job easier, but builds in flexibility and durability over the long term.
I did a similar build three years ago and thought I could add some input. I got my materials from Menards, with the same thickness but larger pavers. Overall, it has held up great. We experienced some sinking, but that was expected due to the amount of material we added. Personally, I can tell there's foam under the pavers-I can feel it if I jump or stomp. However, I don't think anyone else has noticed. I'm happy I used the foam panels on my patio. However, if I wanted stone walls and a truly long-lasting setup, I'm not confident this will last any longer than a composite deck. The prep work is also largely the same, but it's easier to manage because of the panels. If you don't do the prep correctly, the panels can't compensate for gaps. Their main advantage is that you don't push sand around accidentally when placing pavers, so if you're doing it solo, it can save labor and effort.
Oh to add, when it does sink a bit, what's nice about the panels is they keep the seams aligned at least. Make sure your paver edges don't align with panel seams. In this case, the dip is smooth instead of a trip hazard.
I’ve used these Paver Bases for two small projects (50 and 150sqff) and have been happy with them so far. One is at 2y and the other about 1y now. What I like best about them is that it minimizes weeds and grass that grows between the pavers. The bases are essentially a weed barriers. I’m planning on using it for a couple larger areas now. Thanks for posting!
Good enough for the girls I run with. I have the same concerns as you about back breaking labor since I don't do this for a living. I'm too cheap to pay someone the extra money to do it for me because I'm not made of money. I'd love a professional patio, but I also like being able to pay my mortgage. I'm only doing a 12x12 with a budget of about 1500-2000 dollars.
Thanks for the update. I actually used your original video to complete my paver install. My pavers are doing fine also after 3 years. Had surface weeds just like yours. One suggestion is to add decorative river rock by your door cover the dirt.
Thanks for posting. Three years ago I also built a patio with paver panels. I had to chop up & remove a lot of roots in the hot South Carolina sun. I hate to think of how much harder it would have been if I had to dig deeper because I built it the traditional way.
Good job on this. I also recommend the use of these panels to save time, labor, expense and other people/ trucks on your property for the work. I installed this in a transition area from concrete to paver with no movement after 7 years. I also have done a 80' x 13' drive and rear patio surfaces with traditional 3.5" and 5" areas of crushed granite, sand and pavers. That is a hell of a lot more work and it still has movement. These pads have held up fine on Clay soil and my only regret is they were not available sooner when I did the much bigger sections. I will be using them again in my front walk and you should too.
I don't see why you should care if anyone but you doesn't like the placement of the patio in relation to the window. The fact that your shed fits perfectly seems to confirm that it's in the right place.
We have group and tribalistic instincts, we like to conform to group mentality, so if enough people complaint, you tend to start double questioning yourself. We all have to face that many times in life.
When we bought a house in San Antonio both Lowe's and HD gave us a discount on our first purchase. We bought a ton of those paver base mats in anticipation of using them around the garden. I love those things. We spent a week building a sidewalk about 20 feet long without the pads. We spent a day building another 20-ft sidewalk using the pads.
Bravo! Well done. I like how you seemed to have researched well the process and then decided on a practical method for you. You really didn't take any shortcuts that would have come back to bite you.
on my pavers in FL where they get shade and obviously tons of rain I just spray em with prodamine quarterly and never see any growth that way i never have to worry about messing up the sand or the base... good work on your patio
Thanks for putting this video together. We never get to see a project a few years later. I think you have the perfect application for a patio, and this patio material. What makes it perfect is that you don't have any large plants (bushes or trees) near the patio. If you did have these plants, I think the roots would find their way underneath and buckle the patio. So, I would be very careful about keeping plants far away, or in containers. I agree with others that architecturally it would be more pleasing to the eye to continue the patio to the side of the house. Your shed can sit on top, and you can have plants in containers. I didn't think about the matt material possibly making a spongy walk surface... great to hear that's not the case. BTW, the patio is beautiful and has definitely added value to the house. And, getting that water away from the house saved you 10s of thousands of dollars of problems later.
I love 30 second cleaner. I do my whole house with it in a spray bottle from Lowes, hits really high, and a fire mans nozzle on my house. I use on rugs outside, pillows and chairs ! ❤ it. Saves me so much money ! I'm getting ready to do my front walkway and driveway.
YOu could just drop some pavers on that area under the window to give a visual of an extension. Or maybe a rock garden so there isn't such an obvious harsh contrast between the pavers and the dirt. I am going to do my patio this summer and will use paver base panel. THanks for the instructional video.
Hey, this project helped me plan mine. Thanks. On summer 2 of my project and a landscaping friend said I’ve saved about $15k so far. Put about 300 hours in but it’s worth it looking at what I’ve made and happy with it holding up perfectly over last winter (what I had done that far). Cheers
I used the same system for a paver path going from my driveway to the front steps and it's been 6 years. The only issues I've had with it is pitting on the pavers themselves due to using salt in the winter but this is no fault of the paver base. It still is flat with no waving and looks so much nicer than the concrete walkway that used to be there.
Planning to do something very similar this summer, using those same base panels and pavers. I watched your original instal video and really appreciate this 3 yr follow up. Looks great.
I used the same products to build three patios. Two smaller for placing benches around the yard and a larger for a small table and smoker. Mine are doing well 4 years on. I highly recommend this process. Move work on yours.
the surface "weeds" you say you did finally end up encountering a tiny bit is actually just a type of moss 3:45 . It grows those tall bits to try to propagate itself
Your patio looks great! I put in a DIY patio 11'x 26' a few years ago I went down extra deep from the normal amount of gravel recommended. I went with 10" of gravel since this is an extreme north area. The frost thaw the following spring disturbed the patio so badly, that I had to do something to correct it. I pulled it all up put down the same Gator Base pads that you used. After 3 years now it looks the same as when I redid the whole patio and I am sold on the use of the Gator Base pad. I did another walkway last year 10' x 4' and even though I still put down 4" of gravel, you better believe I put down Gator Base panels again and it did not move at all despite varied freezing rain and thaw cycles through the last winter.
Your 3-year update video reminded me when I watched your first video. Well done! Appreciate this update. I was thinking about doing gravel base and now I might go with the panel base instead as it’s holding up well.
Solid job man, I watched your old video a couple years back before I did my patio. I also used the paver panels and they've been great. I'm going to try your poly sand hack...I just can't get the sand to stay in there well. Part of me thinks that as I pour the sand in and vibrate the pavers, since the pavers are sitting on the paver panels, the poly sand slides in underneath.
I used the PaverBase/sand too. I was so much easier than doing the gravel/ sand thing. I did make some mistakes though. my slope is 1" every 10ft and I forgot the polymeric sand at the end. Four years and the patio is fine. I do get weeds, but they're easy to pull-up. Maybe I pressure wash and do the sand someday; so many other projects to do first though.
I used the same underlayment panels for a brick sidewalk 3 years ago. It's holding up well and I get a lot of complements on it. Tip for moss abatement and preventative: Broadcast baking soda over the pavers in the fall. I learned this from a roof maintenance crew in western Oregon). They were spreading it over a roof of a motel where we were staying using a drop spreader in two passes on each slope, one near the peak and one midway. Rain dispersed it down the slope. I tried it on a north-facing patio of a place I bought that had a mat of moss about 2" thick. I waited a couple of weeks and tried to shovel it off but it was still stuck like glue and wouldn't budge. I figured it didn't work and forgot about it until the next spring when I had to get something out of the shed next to that patio. I stepped on the moss mat and about fell on my bohunkus when the lush green moss mat tore away from the concrete. Even though the mat was still green and thick the root system that stuck it to the concrete had turned into a black, gooey mess. I grabbed a square shovel out of the shed and easily scooped the moss off the patio, and hosed it off. It was still stained from the black muck but it faded over the summer. I added more baking soda every fall and the moss didn't come back.
Great Job! To sort out the patio/door placement issue....just pull the big potted plant forward. Maybe tuck another pot with a trellis and a vine behind it to cover the utilities.
Dude. I don't sub and have no idea who you are, but I TOTALLY remember watching your video 3 years ago... randomly. I would not even have stopped on *this* video if I hadn't recognized the patio from the thumbnail. In any event, nice work. Glad it worked out.
The patio looks great! I'm so glad I came across this video! I had no idea these panels existed. I've been thinking about building a small patio, but I've never done it and thought paying someone was a little out of my budget. I'm inspired to try myself!
great looking project and results. its always fun as time passes proving to nay sayers their comments are wrong, yet who do they Always call to fix their own screw ups! We learn by taking risk and getting it done.
Very nice. Great job on the original video and this one. You mentioned 30 Second Cleaner. It's basically just bleach. Sodium hypochlorite, bleach, is the main ingredient according to the material data sheet. Just an fyi for those who might be considering purchasing it.
Looks great. I did a similar job in my backyard but used porcelain pavers instead. Same steps as yours. Looks great so far. Hover time will tell once I also go through a few seasons.
wow thanks for the follow up! I am doing the exact same project under my deck so there will be cuts to do. But, now I am more concerned about plant growth since it is under the deck.
Move the potted plant in the corner to the center of the left french door (window). then the left edge will look intentional. It will also add interest to the french doors from the interior.
You did a great job and the patio looks fantastic. I would have done the same thing - just putting more polysand on top wheew the old washed out. Don't see why there is an issue at all with that approach!
Sub base compaction is the key regardless of paver installation. Base paver panels were mostly designed for no access yards but as long as as your compacted thoroughly and screeded evenly your fine. 1/8 per ft is fine as long as your installing your polymeric below the chamfers on the pavers as intended. Poly will need to be replaced every few years but that’s just the cost of owning an interlocking paver patio. If you let it go without sand you’ll run into settling issues. Also in regards the maintenance a nice color enhancing sealer can really bring your pavers back to life. They come in a variety of finishes from no gloss to high gloss but keep in mind the higher the gloss the higher the slip. They’ve come a long way with them and allow eflo to breath through but I still don’t recommend to clients until a full season of paver curing before sealing. Another thing that’s kind of unavoidable is the track of sun light, which some don’t even consider. Over the years the pavers closer to the house or under cover will not nearly age as much as the other. Sealer can also help blend these colors. Overall still looks good and is functioning as intended, well done.
Those paver panels work pretty good for what they are. I've left a few of them out for more than 2 years in full sun, and they're still fine. The low spots you have are almost certainly from the dirt beneath them moving. Compacting and good grading is still absolutely necessary with these. I tried an area with biochar as the base instead of sand, and was astonished at how much it moved. Some bits raised, some lowered. I wouldn't be surprised if the ground itself sunk for those low spots. That said, I don't think they are a good fit for anything other than small projects. You spent a lot of effort to get your ground flat enough; far more than any contractor or the average person would. With a deeper gravel base, it's a lot more forgiving of non-flat ground; there's only one accurate step.
Nice job man! I didn’t see the original video but I’m glad you followed up with everyone. Never done a patio myself but I may try it after watching this.
You did a great job, looks beautiful! I love everything about your patio. (And thanks for adding extra notes - like your particular patio wouldn't hold weight of a car.)
Wonderful job. Ideally you want to line up on some architectural feature, but just put some pots there to mitigate the lack of alignment. Nobody will notice, but you. OR you could remove a rectangle out of that corner all the way to the shed. So pave up to the edge of the door then put just use the edging overlapping that line into where the window is. So the regular pavers to the center line of the "door" then extend dark edging inward toward the house. Take that whole square out to the shed. That won't look like a mistake. I don't think you use that corner anyway. My friend, never trust a french drain, long term they never work. They must be solid concrete with a serious pitch, with a removable metal grate for clean out) I think you can still surface drain, do a swale (a barely noticeable ditch) along that side to a low point, it could be as simple as ripping out the french drain and adding a little fill. Although that slopes and lower, with grass, it will look flat. Looks like toward the spot you dumped the fill, but I can't tell. Looks like the far corner goes to a lowest elevation. Use the active ingredient in Oxy-clean, (sodium percarbonate) from amazon. (5 lbs. is more than enough) Dissolve crystals completely in hot water. Just dump it on, no scrubbing. It is not toxic to anything and you will be shocked by how it makes your pavers and joints new. Byproduct of it is oxygen and a very small amount of soda ash (potash). That is my favorite pattern, what is it called??? Most novice people would not have made this patio big enough, this is a commendable size. If you had put a few tiny plants in 3 years ago, they would have been great by now. Use a groundcover there. You sound like Michigan and that has to be north facing so vinca (periwinkle) would work, also, why not get a clematis vine? Summer color and vines help to tie the house to the patio, visually. Fantastic job in general, the whole thing is heaving in the winter as a single unit, I doubt you will have any trouble in the future.
that looks like a clay soil foundation. i wonder if that's why you're not getting the wavy pavers? I know your good drainage is going to be a huge factor in preventing the wavy erosion. Adding the french drain was excellent. We're in FL- i am confident that if you did the same foundation technique here on the sandy soil vs clay, the results would be different because that's pretty much what i did on a small 5x5 lol didn't get the same good results.
Fantastic, professional job! Please tell me how you were able to create such a beautiful, random selection of pavers withh undetectable repeated patterns! 👍🏻
![Coheed and Cambria - Searching for Tomorrow [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/hDsYGLbmadg/mqdefault.jpg)
Nice work. Everyone is an expert when it is not their project
How true!
Thanks for doing a "progress report" after several years. Knowing the longer term results gives a lot more credibility to the initial install video. It will be interesting to see how well topping off the sand works out as opposed to blasting out the old sand.
4 years later, the amount of gravel I would need for my 12x12 patio's gravel base would cost about $200 more than these panels, so Im going with these panels 👏👏 thanks man lol
Can these panels be used in substitute for gravel base for a retaining wall using concrere blocks?
Wow, really? When I was doing the research for my patio last year it was about $180 for a pack of 10 gator base which only covered
@@Andrew-dy1xi I hope you took the silence for a "no". Because such panels are designed to absorb a distributed and limited amount of weight.
Gravel shifts into position, while these panels would slowly compress / bend / break over time.
I couldn't tell you how long they would last, but certainly not long term.
I'm glad to hear the PaverBase system is holding up. We manufacture those panels. More and more people including contractors are switching to them. The savings in labor and warranty claims far outpaces the additional cost of the product.
The accountbility to hit all of everyones concerns, good or bad, is reall refreshing! Love the openness about the project and not sugarcoating, but just being honest about the effectivenesses and reflections.
The fact that you did a follow up video is so cool. Thanks for this. I love your explanation of everything.
After watching your video, I used the paver panel system, and 2 years later, it still looks great! I am petite, and this system saved my back..thanks!
Can't believe it's been 3 years since I first watched your video
Same. I watched this right when I bought my house and redid my paver patios.
Beautiful job. I watched your installation video too. You are to be commended for the nice job you did on the patio as well as your skills recording, narrating and editing. The three year follow up was great. As one who has been working on home improvement projects for 31 years, I can appreciate all your hard work. My next project is replacing the paver patio I installed 25 years ago because the railroad tie borders rotted out. Thank you.
I made a big paver walkway. The base was super compacted leveled sand. Seven years later and it’s in perfect condition withstanding severe Colorado weather. Yours looks great.
This is very depended on the underground. This works because his ground is good enough to have it like this. Where others might have problems. Like he said, he ain't no expert. yet made a video on what and how it was done. Feels like a amateur cook telling you how to make a 5 star meal at this point. But the review is nice to have for ppl that wonder on the material :) Nothing wrong with the video, he explaines it all very well and has the added info of "not a expert". So no one can blame him if they copy it and it go's wrong. Pure informative video.
It’s been 4 years since I did my patio and walkway with paver panels. It’s still solid. I used polymeric sand and there’s no weeds or moss. The professionals that did my brother-in-laws patio told him that regular sand was better for the joints. His whole patio is full of moss. Two years later I decided to put in an in-ground pool. They had to drive over my walkway and part of the patio with the machine to dig. We put sheets of plywood on the pavers to protect them. They held up pretty good. I think the panels provided some cushion for the pavers and kept them from breaking. I also did the pavers around the pool with panels. The only difference is that I used 1/4” open-graded base crushed gravel. The gravel allows water to flow freely without washing away. Two years later the pool deck still looks like I just installed it. Also the panels help insulate the ground, which probably helps with freeze, thaw issues.
Ive been doing hardscaping work for 10 years, Regular sand is the worst option for the joints. Get a good brand of poly sand like gator nitro or poly sweep
I have used those paver base panels for a couple of walkways here in South Florida. With our sandy soil, it's common for pavers to sink when done incorrectly. Using the the walkways I have done with the panels are weed free and level, even after 5 years. One of the walkways I did without them started getting wavy after just 1 year. I believe part of the advantage is that the panels help distribute the weight over a larger area, and they help block deep weeds.
Hey, i did my backyard using the same paver panels and it's been a year now. Still looks great! No sagging or weeds growing between the pavers. My area was twice the size as yours. I did exactly what you did and just moved the dirt to somewhere else. Some of the dirt i gave to my neighbors. Yes, using the panels costed me more money but time saved from digging up less dirt was all well worth it. Thank you for making an update video. Your paver patio still looks great!
Your patio is beautiful and you did fantastic work! As you're saying, as soil builds up between the pavers, you will get weeds, but they can't be deeply rooted with the weed block. In your case, that weed block is also helping your patio move water away from the house so it's acting as a water as well as weed barrier. The downside, as you learned, is that it concentrates pooling as well. The French drain was a great solution to the pooling. You could also create a rain garden at the edge of the patio if you have more slope below it, or even at the end of the French drain to help disburse the water.
Unfortunately, polymeric sand and gravel only lasts about 2-3 years. You have to keep applying a binding agent to maintain it. You don't need to add sand if you stay on top of it. But, polymer based binding agents are highly polluting - you're essentially putting microplastics into the ground. A great solution to this is to use a cornstarch based binding agent. It is highly effective and will last a full year and won't create pollution. And there are now commercial polymeric sand and gravel binding products available using cornstarch.
This is very good information. I will look out for the sand with corn starch.😊
I would rather have this patio that I paid peanuts for than a 110% perfect professional one I had to pay $10,000 or more for. F'ck that.
Thanks for the 3 year update! Still looks as good as day 1. Perfection 👌!
The French drain was a great addition also. And I'm sure the satisfaction of doing this project on your own is great in itself...also saving ALOT of $$
Thanks for the update! My husband and I used your original video to help guide us through our own replacement paver patio. We just finished up this weekend and I’m glad to see how yours has held up! Great work
Thank you for the follow up! I actually watched your video from 3 years ago and glad to see it help up well.
Hi! What a timely video. We used your video as a reference to recreate a paver patio space in our backyard. Like you, we previously had pavers that had moss growth and weed between the joints. The installation was previously done with rock base and compacted but even still, they shifted and were no longer level. We also previously had used polymeric sand between the joints. What is different this time is how we prepared the base.
I am so glad to see your result 3 years later as a reference. This time, we used the Brock Paver Base panels, and this past weekend, we just finished placing our stones. We need a few dry days to complete the polymeric sand.
What I found most helpful about your first video was how to skreed the sand. When my husband was going rogue, I kept bringing him back to your video, insistent that we buy rebar and do it right. In the end we bought rebar and I skreed the sand. It was easy!!
Thanks for telling me of the update in your other video comment section. I ended up doing a paver patio last year after watching your video and some others. One thing I did that you didn’t was to use a concrete sealer 30 days or so after setting the polymeric sand. I sprayed it on the pavers and the polymeric joints and it prevents water from getting in. I haven’t had even one spot grow any weeds or grass. I plan to retreat it with the sealer every other year or maybe once a year. Moss likes to grow here too because of all the trees I have so I wanted to seal it the best I could. I spray my chimney with sealer so figured why not spray the pavers too.
Thanks for the tip, I may have to look into that as well. Congratulations on finishing your own project too!
100% the bricks would be wavy if you did a traditional install originally 😂. Getting the sand or gravel base to be properly compacted and not erode away due to weather and load is the most complex part of this kind of surface covering. Even experienced installers are coin flipping it sometimes.
I've used these panels on a couple of smaller landings. They have worked just fine for years now. I'm a believer.
He has returned!
I followed your original video and did my own paver patio. I used packed gravel instead of the rubber pads though. Thanks for all your hard work!
Thank you for the update. We have a similar issue with our patio and this has given me the confidence to proceed!
The progress report is excellent! About 15 years ago, I installed a 50’ x 3’ paver walkway. For the base, I installed a 4” layer of 3/4” crushed rock, 2” of road mulch and a thin layer of coarse leveling sand before placing the pavers.
Over the years, our wet, cold winters took a toll, causing the walkway to heave and sag. Ants also built nests within the sand layer, undermining the leveling course and gaps opened up to allow weeds and grass to root and cause more damage. In short, it was a mess.
Last spring, I removed all the pavers and fixed the sub base but opted to use the paver panels on top of my leveling course. At first, i was skeptical that the product would perform any better than before. I was also concerned about lateral shift that would form gaps between the pavers, but after more than a year, the walkway looks as good today as the day I re-finished it 😊
In my initial installation, I used poly sand for the joints, but opted not to on the re-installation, partly because the joints were already tight, but also because I didn’t want to introduce sand to give the ants another go at messing up my hard work. Polymeric sand is expensive and may not be needed if your joints are tight like mine are. With good perimeter support (I used a plastic retention edge, anchored with 8” spikes), there is little to no risk of movement, in my experience.
Two big advantages to this product;
1. The insulative value of the panels resists freezing of the sub base layer, preventing heaving through wet and freezing winter months.
2. If I ever need to pull up the pavers to run a conduit or waterline underneath, it’s super easy to take them apart, lift the panels, install the conduit, then put everything back together.
I’m planning to re & re another walkway on the side of my house next spring using the same paver panels and add a new patio in the back corner of my property with this product.
This product is a fantastic invention that not only makes the job easier, but builds in flexibility and durability over the long term.
I did the same 3 years ago and it is absolutely 💯 perfect
I did a similar build three years ago and thought I could add some input. I got my materials from Menards, with the same thickness but larger pavers. Overall, it has held up great. We experienced some sinking, but that was expected due to the amount of material we added. Personally, I can tell there's foam under the pavers-I can feel it if I jump or stomp. However, I don't think anyone else has noticed.
I'm happy I used the foam panels on my patio. However, if I wanted stone walls and a truly long-lasting setup, I'm not confident this will last any longer than a composite deck. The prep work is also largely the same, but it's easier to manage because of the panels. If you don't do the prep correctly, the panels can't compensate for gaps. Their main advantage is that you don't push sand around accidentally when placing pavers, so if you're doing it solo, it can save labor and effort.
Oh to add, when it does sink a bit, what's nice about the panels is they keep the seams aligned at least. Make sure your paver edges don't align with panel seams. In this case, the dip is smooth instead of a trip hazard.
I’ve used these Paver Bases for two small projects (50 and 150sqff) and have been happy with them so far. One is at 2y and the other about 1y now. What I like best about them is that it minimizes weeds and grass that grows between the pavers. The bases are essentially a weed barriers. I’m planning on using it for a couple larger areas now. Thanks for posting!
I used the same type and 6 years later it was still beautiful !
I did the same thing after watching your video. It held up well. It is non-traditional bit it works. No weeds. Those paver sheets work.
Your videos are very helpful, I watched your video and built a patio 2 yrs ago and it's still holding up. Thanks for the knowledge.
Good enough for the girls I run with. I have the same concerns as you about back breaking labor since I don't do this for a living. I'm too cheap to pay someone the extra money to do it for me because I'm not made of money. I'd love a professional patio, but I also like being able to pay my mortgage. I'm only doing a 12x12 with a budget of about 1500-2000 dollars.
Thanks for the update. I actually used your original video to complete my paver install. My pavers are doing fine also after 3 years. Had surface weeds just like yours. One suggestion is to add decorative river rock by your door cover the dirt.
I didn't use paver base but watching your video really helped build my patio. Thank you!
1/4 inch slope is for plumbing drainage, it's steeper than you need for a patio so I think you did good there.
Thanks for posting. Three years ago I also built a patio with paver panels. I had to chop up & remove a lot of roots in the hot South Carolina sun. I hate to think of how much harder it would have been if I had to dig deeper because I built it the traditional way.
Looks great! Forget the criticism/opinions. Thanks for the update!
Good job on this. I also recommend the use of these panels to save time, labor, expense and other people/ trucks on your property for the work. I installed this in a transition area from concrete to paver with no movement after 7 years. I also have done a 80' x 13' drive and rear patio surfaces with traditional 3.5" and 5" areas of crushed granite, sand and pavers. That is a hell of a lot more work and it still has movement. These pads have held up fine on Clay soil and my only regret is they were not available sooner when I did the much bigger sections. I will be using them again in my front walk and you should too.
I wish more people did follow up videos to show how their projects age. Thanks for sharing.
I don't see why you should care if anyone but you doesn't like the placement of the patio in relation to the window. The fact that your shed fits perfectly seems to confirm that it's in the right place.
We have group and tribalistic instincts, we like to conform to group mentality, so if enough people complaint, you tend to start double questioning yourself. We all have to face that many times in life.
When we bought a house in San Antonio both Lowe's and HD gave us a discount on our first purchase. We bought a ton of those paver base mats in anticipation of using them around the garden. I love those things. We spent a week building a sidewalk about 20 feet long without the pads. We spent a day building another 20-ft sidewalk using the pads.
Bravo! Well done. I like how you seemed to have researched well the process and then decided on a practical method for you. You really didn't take any shortcuts that would have come back to bite you.
Just started my project today! Your follow up video is perfect timing. I am using paver base panels as well.
on my pavers in FL where they get shade and obviously tons of rain I just spray em with prodamine quarterly and never see any growth that way i never have to worry about messing up the sand or the base... good work on your patio
We have used these paver base panels since 2008 on several DIY projects from 100SF to 1200SF. All of them held up well with no lipping or settling.
Proud of you for taking that project on and for learning as you go along long , at a pace comfortable for you ! Well done
Thanks for putting this video together. We never get to see a project a few years later. I think you have the perfect application for a patio, and this patio material. What makes it perfect is that you don't have any large plants (bushes or trees) near the patio. If you did have these plants, I think the roots would find their way underneath and buckle the patio. So, I would be very careful about keeping plants far away, or in containers. I agree with others that architecturally it would be more pleasing to the eye to continue the patio to the side of the house. Your shed can sit on top, and you can have plants in containers. I didn't think about the matt material possibly making a spongy walk surface... great to hear that's not the case. BTW, the patio is beautiful and has definitely added value to the house. And, getting that water away from the house saved you 10s of thousands of dollars of problems later.
I love 30 second cleaner. I do my whole house with it in a spray bottle from Lowes, hits really high, and a fire mans nozzle on my house. I use on rugs outside, pillows and chairs ! ❤ it. Saves me so much money ! I'm getting ready to do my front walkway and driveway.
Can't believe it's been three years (+ three months at this point). Time flies. Glad it's still holding up.
YOu could just drop some pavers on that area under the window to give a visual of an extension. Or maybe a rock garden so there isn't such an obvious harsh contrast between the pavers and the dirt. I am going to do my patio this summer and will use paver base panel. THanks for the instructional video.
Great job! Love how meticulously you did the steps it paid off!
Beautiful! And the added panel row to frame the window/door would make my anxiety go away ❤
Hey, this project helped me plan mine. Thanks. On summer 2 of my project and a landscaping friend said I’ve saved about $15k so far. Put about 300 hours in but it’s worth it looking at what I’ve made and happy with it holding up perfectly over last winter (what I had done that far). Cheers
I used the same system for a paver path going from my driveway to the front steps and it's been 6 years. The only issues I've had with it is pitting on the pavers themselves due to using salt in the winter but this is no fault of the paver base. It still is flat with no waving and looks so much nicer than the concrete walkway that used to be there.
Planning to do something very similar this summer, using those same base panels and pavers. I watched your original instal video and really appreciate this 3 yr follow up. Looks great.
I literally just watched the original video a week or two ago haha
Great update!
Fantastic job and great 3-year update. Thank you!
I used the same products to build three patios. Two smaller for placing benches around the yard and a larger for a small table and smoker. Mine are doing well 4 years on. I highly recommend this process. Move work on yours.
the surface "weeds" you say you did finally end up encountering a tiny bit is actually just a type of moss 3:45 . It grows those tall bits to try to propagate itself
Your patio looks great! I put in a DIY patio 11'x 26' a few years ago I went down extra deep from the normal amount of gravel recommended. I went with 10" of gravel since this is an extreme north area. The frost thaw the following spring disturbed the patio so badly, that I had to do something to correct it. I pulled it all up put down the same Gator Base pads that you used. After 3 years now it looks the same as when I redid the whole patio and I am sold on the use of the Gator Base pad. I did another walkway last year 10' x 4' and even though I still put down 4" of gravel, you better believe I put down Gator Base panels again and it did not move at all despite varied freezing rain and thaw cycles through the last winter.
Your 3-year update video reminded me when I watched your first video. Well done! Appreciate this update. I was thinking about doing gravel base and now I might go with the panel base instead as it’s holding up well.
Wow !!! Nice job on the pavers, and the French drain will definitely help
Solid job man, I watched your old video a couple years back before I did my patio.
I also used the paver panels and they've been great. I'm going to try your poly sand hack...I just can't get the sand to stay in there well. Part of me thinks that as I pour the sand in and vibrate the pavers, since the pavers are sitting on the paver panels, the poly sand slides in underneath.
I used the PaverBase/sand too. I was so much easier than doing the gravel/ sand thing. I did make some mistakes though. my slope is 1" every 10ft and I forgot the polymeric sand at the end. Four years and the patio is fine. I do get weeds, but they're easy to pull-up. Maybe I pressure wash and do the sand someday; so many other projects to do first though.
This video answers a lot of questions in regards to gravel vs panels. Thanks.
Watched your initial video back then. Thanks for the update!
I used the same underlayment panels for a brick sidewalk 3 years ago. It's holding up well and I get a lot of complements on it.
Tip for moss abatement and preventative: Broadcast baking soda over the pavers in the fall. I learned this from a roof maintenance crew in western Oregon). They were spreading it over a roof of a motel where we were staying using a drop spreader in two passes on each slope, one near the peak and one midway. Rain dispersed it down the slope. I tried it on a north-facing patio of a place I bought that had a mat of moss about 2" thick. I waited a couple of weeks and tried to shovel it off but it was still stuck like glue and wouldn't budge. I figured it didn't work and forgot about it until the next spring when I had to get something out of the shed next to that patio. I stepped on the moss mat and about fell on my bohunkus when the lush green moss mat tore away from the concrete. Even though the mat was still green and thick the root system that stuck it to the concrete had turned into a black, gooey mess. I grabbed a square shovel out of the shed and easily scooped the moss off the patio, and hosed it off. It was still stained from the black muck but it faded over the summer. I added more baking soda every fall and the moss didn't come back.
Great Job! To sort out the patio/door placement issue....just pull the big potted plant forward. Maybe tuck another pot with a trellis and a vine behind it to cover the utilities.
Man this is great, thanks for the long term update! Gives me some confidence to try this method with my patio project. Awesome job!
Dude. I don't sub and have no idea who you are, but I TOTALLY remember watching your video 3 years ago... randomly. I would not even have stopped on *this* video if I hadn't recognized the patio from the thumbnail. In any event, nice work. Glad it worked out.
I remember watching your original video. Great paving job.
The patio looks great! I'm so glad I came across this video! I had no idea these panels existed. I've been thinking about building a small patio, but I've never done it and thought paying someone was a little out of my budget. I'm inspired to try myself!
Nice review & looks like great solution for you! Hindsight is wonderful & glad no issues or regrets! As with anything, the prep & base layer is key!
great looking project and results. its always fun as time passes proving to nay sayers their comments are wrong, yet who do they Always call to fix their own screw ups! We learn by taking risk and getting it done.
Very nice. Great job on the original video and this one.
You mentioned 30 Second Cleaner. It's basically just bleach. Sodium hypochlorite, bleach, is the main ingredient according to the material data sheet. Just an fyi for those who might be considering purchasing it.
Great update. I saw the original vid about a month ago and this follow up was perfect timing for my project starting in about a week.
Nice, I love that the French drain worked. I plan to do the same thing. I’m hiring out excavator for half the project though.
Looks great. I did a similar job in my backyard but used porcelain pavers instead. Same steps as yours. Looks great so far. Hover time will tell once I also go through a few seasons.
I didn't know those panels existed. Thanks... :) Hammocks are awesome, aren't they?
wow thanks for the follow up! I am doing the exact same project under my deck so there will be cuts to do. But, now I am more concerned about plant growth since it is under the deck.
Surfaces tend to get wavy due to ground settling. Since there was a patio there before, it's likely that all (most) the settling got done years ago.
I'm still watching the original video for reference! Thanks 🙏
Good job! You get to enjoy that patio, well-deserved.
Well done! Living well is the best revenge (or in your case, 3 years of enjoying your patio).
Move the potted plant in the corner to the center of the left french door (window). then the left edge will look intentional. It will also add interest to the french doors from the interior.
You did a great job and the patio looks fantastic. I would have done the same thing - just putting more polysand on top wheew the old washed out. Don't see why there is an issue at all with that approach!
Sub base compaction is the key regardless of paver installation. Base paver panels were mostly designed for no access yards but as long as as your compacted thoroughly and screeded evenly your fine. 1/8 per ft is fine as long as your installing your polymeric below the chamfers on the pavers as intended. Poly will need to be replaced every few years but that’s just the cost of owning an interlocking paver patio. If you let it go without sand you’ll run into settling issues. Also in regards the maintenance a nice color enhancing sealer can really bring your pavers back to life. They come in a variety of finishes from no gloss to high gloss but keep in mind the higher the gloss the higher the slip. They’ve come a long way with them and allow eflo to breath through but I still don’t recommend to clients until a full season of paver curing before sealing. Another thing that’s kind of unavoidable is the track of sun light, which some don’t even consider. Over the years the pavers closer to the house or under cover will not nearly age as much as the other. Sealer can also help blend these colors. Overall still looks good and is functioning as intended, well done.
Those paver panels work pretty good for what they are. I've left a few of them out for more than 2 years in full sun, and they're still fine. The low spots you have are almost certainly from the dirt beneath them moving. Compacting and good grading is still absolutely necessary with these. I tried an area with biochar as the base instead of sand, and was astonished at how much it moved. Some bits raised, some lowered. I wouldn't be surprised if the ground itself sunk for those low spots.
That said, I don't think they are a good fit for anything other than small projects. You spent a lot of effort to get your ground flat enough; far more than any contractor or the average person would. With a deeper gravel base, it's a lot more forgiving of non-flat ground; there's only one accurate step.
Nice job man! I didn’t see the original video but I’m glad you followed up with everyone. Never done a patio myself but I may try it after watching this.
You did a great job, looks beautiful! I love everything about your patio. (And thanks for adding extra notes - like your particular patio wouldn't hold weight of a car.)
I'm glad I got to watch the first video and 3 year update one all in one day. 😂
You should spray your umbrella's with uv blocker, every year, mine still looks brand new 😊
Brilliant. I love when “the experts” are proved wrong. Looks great and I’m sure you saved enough for several barbecues.
You love when experts are proved wrong because you're not one and feel inadequate in your knowledge.
Wonderful job. Ideally you want to line up on some architectural feature, but just put some pots there to mitigate the lack of alignment. Nobody will notice, but you. OR you could remove a rectangle out of that corner all the way to the shed. So pave up to the edge of the door then put just use the edging overlapping that line into where the window is. So the regular pavers to the center line of the "door" then extend dark edging inward toward the house. Take that whole square out to the shed. That won't look like a mistake. I don't think you use that corner anyway.
My friend, never trust a french drain, long term they never work. They must be solid concrete with a serious pitch, with a removable metal grate for clean out) I think you can still surface drain, do a swale (a barely noticeable ditch) along that side to a low point, it could be as simple as ripping out the french drain and adding a little fill. Although that slopes and lower, with grass, it will look flat. Looks like toward the spot you dumped the fill, but I can't tell. Looks like the far corner goes to a lowest elevation.
Use the active ingredient in Oxy-clean, (sodium percarbonate) from amazon. (5 lbs. is more than enough) Dissolve crystals completely in hot water. Just dump it on, no scrubbing. It is not toxic to anything and you will be shocked by how it makes your pavers and joints new. Byproduct of it is oxygen and a very small amount of soda ash (potash).
That is my favorite pattern, what is it called??? Most novice people would not have made this patio big enough, this is a commendable size. If you had put a few tiny plants in 3 years ago, they would have been great by now. Use a groundcover there. You sound like Michigan and that has to be north facing so vinca (periwinkle) would work, also, why not get a clematis vine? Summer color and vines help to tie the house to the patio, visually.
Fantastic job in general, the whole thing is heaving in the winter as a single unit, I doubt you will have any trouble in the future.
that looks like a clay soil foundation. i wonder if that's why you're not getting the wavy pavers? I know your good drainage is going to be a huge factor in preventing the wavy erosion. Adding the french drain was excellent. We're in FL- i am confident that if you did the same foundation technique here on the sandy soil vs clay, the results would be different because that's pretty much what i did on a small 5x5 lol didn't get the same good results.
Great vid and turn out. I feel the digging, leveling and slope is the hardest part
Good For You!
DIY projects are very rewarding!
Thanks for posting this follow up video! I remember watching the install video and just stumbled across this.
Fantastic, professional job! Please tell me how you were able to create such a beautiful, random selection of pavers withh undetectable repeated patterns! 👍🏻
Happy you did an update. Nice job.