I wouldn’t complain about Peach getting kidnapped again if they took the Paper Mario approach- she gets kidnapped, but she still finds ways to help from where she is.
That would be fun if it does return. Out of the games where she does get kidnapped, I think TTYD definitely did it as one of the best for that exact reason
Yeah, I haven't played any Paper Mario games beyond the first two, but at least those first two games have what I feel is the best balance between Peach being a damsel and her having agency.
I love how Nintendo has relatively kept Peach's personality the same in all of their games. Being a hyper feminine girl doesn't mean you're weak! And even when she is being kidnapped she always finds a way to help Mario by sending him power ups (in SMB3 and SMG for example) or other useful items and leads (in Paper Mario 64 and TTYD). I mean what can you really do when someone way stronger than you in physical strength kidnaps and holds you as a hostage? If there is no way to escape you can only pray for your life and for Peach, Mario is the kind and loyal friend who will come to her aid. Of course the majority will probably always see Peach as this stereotypical "damsel in distress" trope, but to me she is so much more. She's my idol and I haven't never thought of her as weak or unable to defend herself. We all have our weakest moments, but those will not determinate our whole character.
They probably noticed the mario series was a bit more boy-sided for a little while during the switch era, and toadette just doesn't have the same appeal of peach for girls. The movie and Showtime were definitely a big push towards making her character a lot more prominent, both in the games and marketing, and I have a feeling they will be experimenting even more with the status quo of the series, after all we got princess Daisy playable in Wonder after them experimenting with her inclusion in Mario Run many years before.
@clarenceandgennymcneil251 we need Elsa Peach (Rosalena) in the marketing and playable in games. We'll thsts what my 3 year daughter believes. She loves Elsa Peach haha But yeah I think having more playable princess in mario would be amazing to get girls to want to play.
@@mariobroultimate1808 it also played on the tired stereotype of women being highly emotional, which severely undermined whatever anti-sexist goal it had (and which to my knowledge was never a part of peach's character before or since)
@@clamdove3292 To be fair, it wasn't just Peach doing the vibes gimmick. All the enemies and bosses were using it too regardless of gender, so it really wasn't as stereotypical as you may think. And there's a reason this emotional stuff hasn't returned for Peach in future games. It wasn't natural for her. It was a gimmick provided by Perry in the same way that Cappy gave Mario the capture ability.
Honestly one of my favorite underrated parts of Peach’s personality is her Temper/Brattiness that shows up occasionally such as in Super Paper Mario and the Strikers series.
I hope she does not completely leave the role as damsel in distress. Perhaps we can have a midground where Peach gets kidnapped, but Mario frees her halfway through the game. She helps Mario throughout the journey and still gives him a kiss at the end.
While SMB2USA is a reskin, it is canon and even has a follow up in the form of BSSMUSA. You forgot Super Princess Peach. In addition there is quote from Miyamoto that shows there wasn't necessarily a change a in how the Mario developers saw Peach. _ "She has never seen herself as 'protected' by Mario. Our image of her is one of strength. Many of the developers came from homes where the Mother wears the boots, you know. (laughs) We hope to keep using Peach in different games in the future."_ You also have her playable in Super Mario Run and the non canon Mario + Rabbids game. I do think she can get kidnapped again but the game would need a reason. I would note not every game has Bowser's motives to kidnap Peach. For example Yoshi's Safari Bowser is invading Jewelry Land. In SMB3 Bowser starts off trying to conquer various territories, and only later in the plot does he kidnap Peach. In Super Mario World Bowser is trying to conquer Dinosaur Land and Peach and the Bros just so happen to show up. I also think while in games like the RPG games she does do other things like try to escape, get intel, and even do her job as a Princess.
from what we've seen of the trailers, it seems like she has some sort of special role in mario and luigi brothership, which will be interesting to see when that game releases
One thing we're curious about is the ebb and flow of nostalgia versus new, by that we mean we can't help but notice that Mario's most straightforward kidnappings of peach tended to be around the New Super Mario Bros era, or the one where Mario stagnated referencing SMB1-3 heavily. The current Mario era is somewhat similar to the gamecube one in that it's experimenting and trying out a lot of new things. As a result we're not fully sold on the idea Peach won't be kidnapped again. But! We still agree on you for quite a few things. It all depends on how much Nintendo has sort of realized that... they just don't really need Peach to do basically the same plot? The pixies, the flower kingdom, etc, aren't really different from Peach in execution, and all for the better we'd argue. It lets us find out about new characters or locales, iconic as the mushroom kingdom is. Peach just being one of the casual fun characters featured is honestly sort of refreshing. Peach is a hyper femme, dolled up princess who loves to bake and dance and sing, but those elements don't inherently say anything bad about women. Her still getting to be that but just allowed to *join in on the fun* is, well, it's nice!
Is there a reason why your tunnel vision on “mainline” platformer games ignored 2005’s Super Princess Peach as an obvious historical instances of Peach as a playable hero?
The reason is that I didn’t see Super Princess Peach as something useful to predicting what might happen in the future. Princess Peach Showtime fills that role much better imo
@@PiantapediaYT Not mentioning it at all leaves a bit of a hole in your argument. As an example of a point in history where Nintendo allowed experimentation with Peach’s role, but ultimately reverted back to the damsel-in-distress, what’s to stop this from happening again? Just a few sentences of what makes this time different than the late ‘00s would have only strengthened your argument, rather than painting a historically inaccurate picture of Peach’s evolution as a character.
It honestly doesn’t even matter if she doesn’t get kidnapped anymore because it’s all she’s ever gonna be remembered as no matter what. She’s been getting kidnapped every other day since she was created and that’s always gonna stick
i _kind of_ agree, but at the same time i still think they should do more to shift her away from the damsel in distress trope. plus i doubt that the first thirty or so years of peach's existence will be remembered as her legacy, if the series continues for another few decades
@@clamdove3292you are wrong! Peach getting kidnapped is part of Nintendo’s tradition. If they get rid of their tradition then they are ruined and mediocre and I am not getting any more games!
Right now, I don't care how they put Peach (Kidnapped or Fighter) she's always my favorite Super Mario Bros character, but we have to admit that the "Damsel in distress" thing with her is getting old, and now it's better for her to do things, but still that doesn't mean Peach hates or doesn't need Mario even though she's getting stronger.
@ because her role is iconic and I am satisfied with it. If Nintendo gets rid of peach’s role then they will be mediocre and ruined. She sometimes doesn’t need to explore and discover new things. And while it’s true, peach does goes her own separate adventures with Mario and Luigi or by herself, she still get kidnapped by bowser every so often.
@@troybell7444 Bro she was kidnapped a lot 💀, I know her role is iconic, but Princess Peach has to do "something", and don't say she's "woke" because you don't know what you're talking about, and look I'm talking about the princess herself, not other female characters, Peach has her "right" to help others instead of standing there doing nothing.
@@ButterflyBlossom6415I know peach gets kidnapped a lot! That’s why Nintendo takes breaks every now and then. And I DO TOO know what I am talking about. I’m not saying she’s woke, I’m saying she’s mediocre if Nintendo gets rid of her role. And peach sabotages the bad guys and sends useful information. So she does something while she’s kidnapped.
This was fun! To throw in my hat towards the Zelda argument, she has it rough. In OoT and Wind Waker, she's made very active up until the moment she's revealed to be the princess... and then she gets kidnapped. But, then aids you for the final battle! That's cool. Twilight Princess has her as a hostage and a puppet until the end pursuit on horseback, which was also fun. Skyward Sword has her realizing her destiny and weaving a larger plan, but then she's crystallized and kidnapped (Link and Zelda's relationship was also excellent here, all things considered). Breath of the Wild has her fighting the Calamity from within, but she's still trapped within that conflict and needs you to end it. Tears of the Kingdom has her mindlessly circling the world healing the Master Sword until she suddenly helps you in the final battle, and then you, Sonia, and Rauru return her to human form. (There's a pattern here.) And in those last two games, even though she's physically with us in the world, we only see her agency in retrospect-- she's a present memory. I've been shown what she's done, I've been told what she's gone through, I know conceptually how she's helping us, but I can't talk to her. Few people in the world know she's there. She's locked in place, waiting for us. Just... waiting. What would make mainline Zelda truly subversive at this point would be keeping her an active participant in the plot with her own goals and story beats *without* getting subdued as a climactic device. That's why Echoes of Wisdom is so exciting to me, because this is her story through and through, and might pave the way for the writers to make her far more immediately, actively, mindfully, presently involved. I love the series dearly, but we've been playing with similar plot and character devices for decades. Much like Peach, change is good, or at least interesting to try!
Aww man i dont get to kill myself through 8 worlds and a world 9 that is awfully hard for absolutely non reason to the point i want to literally die instead of 100%'ing the game
I prefer Peach being playable in the future!👑 But if they ever decided to make her a DID again, take the TTYD route and make her send information to Mario and act as a spy inside
I hope so, that would be really cool, Peach is my favourite 💗, but if it's a game with ONLY Mario as playable as is typical in story games, I don't want to see Peach kidnapped again.
I don’t think so! Peach has been kidnapped on and off since day one! If Nintendo gets rid of the tradition! They are mediocre and ruined. And I won’t get anymore Mario games.
Need to make a correction to your Video. Rosalina's name is Elsa Peach! Elsa Peach! If you have a problem then take it up with my super girly girl 3 year old daughter.
I think peach got kidnapped so much she had to teach herself to defend herself cause clearly the Toads are more than useless. Personally, i dont mind the damsel in distress. Especially the helpless ones. Men are meant to be there for the women they love especially since men are stronger and all. Peach in particular is a more feminine woman and less of a fighter. Seeing her fight is cool and all but also weird. Daisy seemed more like a fighter. But I do like playing as girls and having Peach as one of them is a good thing. If Nintendo kinda threw in a mix i think it would be fine. I think the main reason the trope died was because it was over done, and it isnt the only one. Zombies as a big thing, space was a big thing, Isekai in anime was a big thing and they all were over used and just died out and you see them spread out every now and then and are done more properly due to it. I think Peach got kidnapped so much because it was just a reusable situation. Now that Mario is moving to a online environment they need more Characters and Peach is just a very well loved woman as a princess should be. In a way, Mario can now move on after Peach was rescued by Mario into new stories. Now, its the flower kingdom but they could take this even further. Its nice helping Peach protect her neighbors. In a way, we are kinda keeping Peach from being kidnapped. We are better than Toads. Peach, get better Guards. They are useless.
@@clarenceandgennymcneil251 well I am not glad girls are becoming more playable! You damsel in distress hater insects are worth nothing more than a protozoan waste.
@@troybell7444 I’m not saying Peach can’t be a DID ever again. I just think it’s cool having her and the other girls be playable every now and then. I respect your opinions, though! ✌️
I don't wanna sound rude, But Nothing is wrong, Peach is one of the most important protagonists of Mario's group just like with Luigi and Toad, but Waluigi is like a Spin-Off character, but I know how you feel Waluigi also needs love and more support, I was a little sad that They didn't put him in Smash Bros or appear in a Mario game like what happened with Daisy in Wonder, BUT THAT'S WHAT I THINK maybe there's a chance that Waluigi have a game in the future
When they give one of the main female Nintendo characters a game instead of a to meme spinoff character that is less relevant than daisy and toadette something is very right.
I doubt it. You brought up SMB2 USA, which completely destroys your argument as that whole game was actually a dream, and thus, doesn’t actually count. How many times in the main series has she not been kidnapped? 2 times. 3D World and Wonder. That’s 2 games out of like, at least 15, not including Mario Land 1 and 2. She’s the reason Bowser works as an antagonist as well. Just look at 3D World and Wonder. As much as I love them, they have by far the worst plot in their respective sub-series. Bowser in those games makes zero sense. He kidnaps some fairies because he wants to build a theme park? What the hell kind of motive is that? An incredibly stupid one. What about Wonder? He just… actually, what the hell is his motive there? I genuinely can’t remember because it’s so bad. The point is, two spin-offs where she’s the main protagonist, a movie where she isn’t kidnapped and two playable appearances in games that actually happened aren’t enough to say she won’t ever be kidnapped again- she will. They aren’t going to shake up the “status quo” or whatever. That’s basically what Daisy, Rosalina and Pauline are. Each of them has been kidnapped in some way at least once. They don’t need every single female character to be all independent and a girl boss and able to defend themselves. There will definitely be games with her as the main character obviously, but the formula has worked well for almost 40 years, and I doubt they’re going to change it any time soon. And again, Bowser needs some good motives. Not any of this theme park nonsense.
I respectfully heavily disagree with some of this argument and the points here. Because yeah, Bowser's goals in 3D World & Wonder are simple and dumb. But his plans are literally ALWAYS simple and dumb lol. He is the epitome of a simple and dumb villain. Its his entire appeal. Him screwing over others for his own personal gain, and messing with things he shouldn't like Wonder Flowers, ISN'T the usual for him? Lol. Its no different than every plot of Peach getting kidnapped. And I'd rather see Bowser try out some other dumb schemes, than have the stories ONLY themed around Peach. I especially think having the stories themed around other things is great, because it allows actual new things to be introduced into the series. Like the Flower Kingdom, or the Sprixie Kingdom. As random as they are at times. But you are right in that I'm not 100% convinced Nintendo will drop the traditional Peach kidnapped formula. If only because Nintendo is a company that loves to reuse safe troupes... both sometimes out of respect for their legacy, and to just play it safe... or to put it more honestly... nostagia milking lol. Peach being a damsel is such a big part of most of Mario's history, yeeeah its hard to see Nintendo dropping it completely. But I'm far from close minded on her not being kidnapped, and assuming if she isn't, she's automatically a "girlboss". I can understand not wanting her to overshadow Mario, or getting involved in e v e r y plot. But Mario needs to try new things, and its not unreasonable to think it will going forward. As the Switch Era has clearly shown it does nothing but help most of the time.
peach being kidnapped adds literally nothing to the plot. bowser's main motiviation has always been to conquer kingdoms. literally the only time she's ever been relevant to his plan was in odyssey because his and that was because his main goal in that game was specifically to marry her
@@PeachyCatty In the original Super Mario Bros, he kidnapped her because she was the only one who could undo the spell he out in the Toads. In Mario Sunshine, she was kidnapped so Jr. could have a mother. In Galaxy 1, she was kidnapped so Bowser could rule the universe with her by his side probably because he’s in love with her. In Galaxy 2, she was kidnapped because Bowser wanted her to make him a cake and to rule the universe by his side yada yada. In Odyssey, like you said, he kidnaps her because he wants to marry her. He’s not kidnapping her just to conquer kingdoms. He’s never really conquered anything. He’s very clearly in love with her and that’s why he kidnaps her all the time.
@@generalcrab0009 he still doesn't need to kidnap her tho. the galaxy games would've been just fine if she had nothing to do with it. plus it's better when she's playable because it adds more female representation & she deserves to be more than just a prize at the end
I don’t care if she takes a break from getting kidnapped. But the truth is I disagree with all the damsel in distress hater’s, including this video. Peach is and will always be a damsel in distress.
Hey man, it's you again, well... I'm just going to say that Peach will always be recognized and remembered as a damsel in distress, but on one hand you have to understand that Peach at least has to do "something", I personally don't hate the damsel in distress role, only if it's not overused, but even if the Mario series has a story other than rescuing princesses it's not a bad thing, but I'm just saying what I think.
I wouldn’t complain about Peach getting kidnapped again if they took the Paper Mario approach- she gets kidnapped, but she still finds ways to help from where she is.
That would be fun if it does return. Out of the games where she does get kidnapped, I think TTYD definitely did it as one of the best for that exact reason
yeah, i think she should still get kidnapped sometimes for traditions sake. as long as they do it in a fun way, like oddysey or ttyd
@@ctpp64I don’t mind if they do that once in a while but I still think it’s better to have her be a playable character more often than not.
Yeah, I haven't played any Paper Mario games beyond the first two, but at least those first two games have what I feel is the best balance between Peach being a damsel and her having agency.
@@thewhitewolf6715I’d like to have her be playable after you rescue her.
I love how Nintendo has relatively kept Peach's personality the same in all of their games. Being a hyper feminine girl doesn't mean you're weak! And even when she is being kidnapped she always finds a way to help Mario by sending him power ups (in SMB3 and SMG for example) or other useful items and leads (in Paper Mario 64 and TTYD). I mean what can you really do when someone way stronger than you in physical strength kidnaps and holds you as a hostage? If there is no way to escape you can only pray for your life and for Peach, Mario is the kind and loyal friend who will come to her aid. Of course the majority will probably always see Peach as this stereotypical "damsel in distress" trope, but to me she is so much more.
She's my idol and I haven't never thought of her as weak or unable to defend herself. We all have our weakest moments, but those will not determinate our whole character.
Amen!
They probably noticed the mario series was a bit more boy-sided for a little while during the switch era, and toadette just doesn't have the same appeal of peach for girls. The movie and Showtime were definitely a big push towards making her character a lot more prominent, both in the games and marketing, and I have a feeling they will be experimenting even more with the status quo of the series, after all we got princess Daisy playable in Wonder after them experimenting with her inclusion in Mario Run many years before.
Justice for Toadette
@clarenceandgennymcneil251 we need Elsa Peach (Rosalena) in the marketing and playable in games. We'll thsts what my 3 year daughter believes. She loves Elsa Peach haha But yeah I think having more playable princess in mario would be amazing to get girls to want to play.
Dude, how could you forget super princess peach... It was on the DS and has her as the main character saving mario... Decades ago.
That was kind of a one time thing though. This feels a bit more permanent.
@@mariobroultimate1808 it also played on the tired stereotype of women being highly emotional, which severely undermined whatever anti-sexist goal it had (and which to my knowledge was never a part of peach's character before or since)
@@clamdove3292 To be fair, it wasn't just Peach doing the vibes gimmick. All the enemies and bosses were using it too regardless of gender, so it really wasn't as stereotypical as you may think.
And there's a reason this emotional stuff hasn't returned for Peach in future games. It wasn't natural for her. It was a gimmick provided by Perry in the same way that Cappy gave Mario the capture ability.
@@mariobroultimate1808 thank you
I think they could make Peach actually try and break out of captivity during the games like she did in Super Mario 3D Land
Honestly one of my favorite underrated parts of Peach’s personality is her Temper/Brattiness that shows up occasionally such as in Super Paper Mario and the Strikers series.
I hope she does not completely leave the role as damsel in distress. Perhaps we can have a midground where Peach gets kidnapped, but Mario frees her halfway through the game. She helps Mario throughout the journey and still gives him a kiss at the end.
In Brothership she gets kidnapped, but that’s my choice since you can choose Luigi or Peach to get kidnapped
While SMB2USA is a reskin, it is canon and even has a follow up in the form of BSSMUSA.
You forgot Super Princess Peach.
In addition there is quote from Miyamoto that shows there wasn't necessarily a change a in how the Mario developers saw Peach.
_ "She has never seen herself as 'protected' by Mario. Our image of her is one of strength. Many of the developers came from homes where the Mother wears the boots, you know. (laughs) We hope to keep using Peach in different games in the future."_
You also have her playable in Super Mario Run and the non canon Mario + Rabbids game.
I do think she can get kidnapped again but the game would need a reason.
I would note not every game has Bowser's motives to kidnap Peach.
For example Yoshi's Safari Bowser is invading Jewelry Land.
In SMB3 Bowser starts off trying to conquer various territories, and only later in the plot does he kidnap Peach.
In Super Mario World Bowser is trying to conquer Dinosaur Land and Peach and the Bros just so happen to show up.
I also think while in games like the RPG games she does do other things like try to escape, get intel, and even do her job as a Princess.
i always thought bowser invading other kingdoms in mario 3 was just to distract mario and luigi so he could kidnap peach
Ever since she built those 2 cannons on the castle in Mario maker 2 she as been completely protected from koopa Invasions
Aloubell says “Just because she’s a damsel in distress doesn’t mean she’s a damsel in distress ALL THE TIME.”
from what we've seen of the trailers, it seems like she has some sort of special role in mario and luigi brothership, which will be interesting to see when that game releases
As long as she’s a damsel in distress in that game, I wonder what her secondary role is. If not then I am not getting this game.
One thing we're curious about is the ebb and flow of nostalgia versus new, by that we mean we can't help but notice that Mario's most straightforward kidnappings of peach tended to be around the New Super Mario Bros era, or the one where Mario stagnated referencing SMB1-3 heavily. The current Mario era is somewhat similar to the gamecube one in that it's experimenting and trying out a lot of new things. As a result we're not fully sold on the idea Peach won't be kidnapped again.
But! We still agree on you for quite a few things. It all depends on how much Nintendo has sort of realized that... they just don't really need Peach to do basically the same plot? The pixies, the flower kingdom, etc, aren't really different from Peach in execution, and all for the better we'd argue. It lets us find out about new characters or locales, iconic as the mushroom kingdom is.
Peach just being one of the casual fun characters featured is honestly sort of refreshing. Peach is a hyper femme, dolled up princess who loves to bake and dance and sing, but those elements don't inherently say anything bad about women. Her still getting to be that but just allowed to *join in on the fun* is, well, it's nice!
I hope so. Compared to Bowser, Peach seems like a terrible ruler.
Naw, Toads are just useless Guards
bowser's a damn dictator
@@PeachyCatty And yet his minions have more respect for him then entirety of the Mushroom Kingdom for Peach.
@@Mymy_64 that's literally not true? in literally all of her descriptions, it mentions she's beloved by her people
@@PeachyCatty Even then Bowser is clearly the better ruler. Least he knows how to run a kingdom.
Is there a reason why your tunnel vision on “mainline” platformer games ignored 2005’s Super Princess Peach as an obvious historical instances of Peach as a playable hero?
The reason is that I didn’t see Super Princess Peach as something useful to predicting what might happen in the future. Princess Peach Showtime fills that role much better imo
@@PiantapediaYT Not mentioning it at all leaves a bit of a hole in your argument. As an example of a point in history where Nintendo allowed experimentation with Peach’s role, but ultimately reverted back to the damsel-in-distress, what’s to stop this from happening again? Just a few sentences of what makes this time different than the late ‘00s would have only strengthened your argument, rather than painting a historically inaccurate picture of Peach’s evolution as a character.
@@pokechatterSuper Princess Peach personality is one time thing
Things like the Movie, Wonder and Showtime are not
i love your content! you’re the first channel i’ve found in a long time with anything interesting to say
Thanks so much, I'm happy to hear that!
It honestly doesn’t even matter if she doesn’t get kidnapped anymore because it’s all she’s ever gonna be remembered as no matter what. She’s been getting kidnapped every other day since she was created and that’s always gonna stick
i _kind of_ agree, but at the same time i still think they should do more to shift her away from the damsel in distress trope. plus i doubt that the first thirty or so years of peach's existence will be remembered as her legacy, if the series continues for another few decades
@@clamdove3292you are wrong! Peach getting kidnapped is part of Nintendo’s tradition. If they get rid of their tradition then they are ruined and mediocre and I am not getting any more games!
@@troybell7444 if you're joking, it's hilarious. if you're not joking, it's still hilarious but for different reasons
@ I’m NOT joking you damsel in distress hater!!!!!!! you’re just an ignorant idiot!!!!!!!!!!!
@@clamdove3292 no, I’m not kidding!!!! And it’s not hilarious! It’s anything but hilarious!!!!! You are just a damsel in distress hating jerk!
Right now, I don't care how they put Peach (Kidnapped or Fighter) she's always my favorite Super Mario Bros character, but we have to admit that the "Damsel in distress" thing with her is getting old, and now it's better for her to do things, but still that doesn't mean Peach hates or doesn't need Mario even though she's getting stronger.
It’s not getting old! It’s not better for her to do new things all the time.
@troybell7444 Why? On the one hand, she has to explore and discover new things and be on adventures with Mario or Luigi
@ because her role is iconic and I am satisfied with it. If Nintendo gets rid of peach’s role then they will be mediocre and ruined. She sometimes doesn’t need to explore and discover new things. And while it’s true, peach does goes her own separate adventures with Mario and Luigi or by herself, she still get kidnapped by bowser every so often.
@@troybell7444 Bro she was kidnapped a lot 💀, I know her role is iconic, but Princess Peach has to do "something", and don't say she's "woke" because you don't know what you're talking about, and look I'm talking about the princess herself, not other female characters, Peach has her "right" to help others instead of standing there doing nothing.
@@ButterflyBlossom6415I know peach gets kidnapped a lot! That’s why Nintendo takes breaks every now and then. And I DO TOO know what I am talking about. I’m not saying she’s woke, I’m saying she’s mediocre if Nintendo gets rid of her role. And peach sabotages the bad guys and sends useful information. So she does something while she’s kidnapped.
This was fun! To throw in my hat towards the Zelda argument, she has it rough. In OoT and Wind Waker, she's made very active up until the moment she's revealed to be the princess... and then she gets kidnapped. But, then aids you for the final battle! That's cool. Twilight Princess has her as a hostage and a puppet until the end pursuit on horseback, which was also fun. Skyward Sword has her realizing her destiny and weaving a larger plan, but then she's crystallized and kidnapped (Link and Zelda's relationship was also excellent here, all things considered). Breath of the Wild has her fighting the Calamity from within, but she's still trapped within that conflict and needs you to end it. Tears of the Kingdom has her mindlessly circling the world healing the Master Sword until she suddenly helps you in the final battle, and then you, Sonia, and Rauru return her to human form. (There's a pattern here.) And in those last two games, even though she's physically with us in the world, we only see her agency in retrospect-- she's a present memory. I've been shown what she's done, I've been told what she's gone through, I know conceptually how she's helping us, but I can't talk to her. Few people in the world know she's there. She's locked in place, waiting for us. Just... waiting.
What would make mainline Zelda truly subversive at this point would be keeping her an active participant in the plot with her own goals and story beats *without* getting subdued as a climactic device. That's why Echoes of Wisdom is so exciting to me, because this is her story through and through, and might pave the way for the writers to make her far more immediately, actively, mindfully, presently involved. I love the series dearly, but we've been playing with similar plot and character devices for decades. Much like Peach, change is good, or at least interesting to try!
I'm very happy the days of the NES being in the "blue aisle" are over. Being able to play as the princesses is always super cool.
🤦
There's been one new mainline Mario game where she hasn't been kidnapped
I don't think that means she won't be kidnapped
Actually, she will get kidnapped! Just not in that mediocre mainline Mario game where she’s not kidnapped.
@@troybell7444 You trying ragebait?
Sorry to put it to you, I'm not gonna fall for it
@ you’re just an idiot then!
@@JodiGeo then you are stupid and ignorant.
@@JodiGeothen you are idiotic and stupid.
Aww man i dont get to kill myself through 8 worlds and a world 9 that is awfully hard for absolutely non reason to the point i want to literally die instead of 100%'ing the game
Pretty much Nintendo finally realized that this plotline got old.
No! It’s not old! You and Nintendo only think it’s old because you are did haters!
@@troybell7444 Cry about it you loser.
@@Monhamd1000no! YOU cry about it!!!!!!!!! you moron!!!!!!!
@@troybell7444WTF does "did haters" mean? Youve said that in multiple of your annoying spam comments
@ did stands for damsel in distress haters, you incenteniois little insect!
Honestly good.
Thanks!
I prefer Peach being playable in the future!👑 But if they ever decided to make her a DID again, take the TTYD route and make her send information to Mario and act as a spy inside
I think that it’s most likely because the story was getting old.
It’s not old! You’re just a did hater like Nintendo.
I think she’s gonna be playable in the next big 3D Mario game
I hope so, that would be really cool, Peach is my favourite 💗, but if it's a game with ONLY Mario as playable as is typical in story games, I don't want to see Peach kidnapped again.
@@ButterflyBlossom6415 I do
I don’t think so! Peach has been kidnapped on and off since day one! If Nintendo gets rid of the tradition! They are mediocre and ruined. And I won’t get anymore Mario games.
@ Entirely boycotting Mario Games because they put female characters in (optional) playable roles over kidnapped ones? Talk about extreme lol
@ it’s not funny! This is serious!!! That’s why I am making a stand against Nintendo and all of you damsel in distress haters!
Need to make a correction to your Video. Rosalina's name is Elsa Peach! Elsa Peach! If you have a problem then take it up with my super girly girl 3 year old daughter.
Cute😂
I think peach got kidnapped so much she had to teach herself to defend herself cause clearly the Toads are more than useless.
Personally, i dont mind the damsel in distress. Especially the helpless ones. Men are meant to be there for the women they love especially since men are stronger and all. Peach in particular is a more feminine woman and less of a fighter. Seeing her fight is cool and all but also weird. Daisy seemed more like a fighter.
But I do like playing as girls and having Peach as one of them is a good thing. If Nintendo kinda threw in a mix i think it would be fine. I think the main reason the trope died was because it was over done, and it isnt the only one. Zombies as a big thing, space was a big thing, Isekai in anime was a big thing and they all were over used and just died out and you see them spread out every now and then and are done more properly due to it.
I think Peach got kidnapped so much because it was just a reusable situation. Now that Mario is moving to a online environment they need more Characters and Peach is just a very well loved woman as a princess should be. In a way, Mario can now move on after Peach was rescued by Mario into new stories. Now, its the flower kingdom but they could take this even further. Its nice helping Peach protect her neighbors.
In a way, we are kinda keeping Peach from being kidnapped. We are better than Toads.
Peach, get better Guards. They are useless.
I’m sorry to say this but… you are wrong! Peach is and always will be a damsel in distress!
I’m glad the girls are becoming more prominent, playable characters!❤
And yes, Peach needs better guards.
@@clarenceandgennymcneil251 well I am not glad girls are becoming more playable! You damsel in distress hater insects are worth nothing more than a protozoan waste.
@@troybell7444 Personally I like damsels in destress more myself.
Its what made Mario Mario.
@@troybell7444 I’m not saying Peach can’t be a DID ever again. I just think it’s cool having her and the other girls be playable every now and then. I respect your opinions, though! ✌️
When they give her a own game and not Waluigi,then something is wrong.
I don't wanna sound rude, But Nothing is wrong, Peach is one of the most important protagonists of Mario's group just like with Luigi and Toad, but Waluigi is like a Spin-Off character, but I know how you feel Waluigi also needs love and more support, I was a little sad that They didn't put him in Smash Bros or appear in a Mario game like what happened with Daisy in Wonder, BUT THAT'S WHAT I THINK maybe there's a chance that Waluigi have a game in the future
When they give one of the main female Nintendo characters a game instead of a to meme spinoff character that is less relevant than daisy and toadette something is very right.
@@2000fionaThank you
I doubt it. You brought up SMB2 USA, which completely destroys your argument as that whole game was actually a dream, and thus, doesn’t actually count.
How many times in the main series has she not been kidnapped? 2 times. 3D World and Wonder. That’s 2 games out of like, at least 15, not including Mario Land 1 and 2.
She’s the reason Bowser works as an antagonist as well. Just look at 3D World and Wonder. As much as I love them, they have by far the worst plot in their respective sub-series. Bowser in those games makes zero sense. He kidnaps some fairies because he wants to build a theme park? What the hell kind of motive is that? An incredibly stupid one. What about Wonder? He just… actually, what the hell is his motive there? I genuinely can’t remember because it’s so bad.
The point is, two spin-offs where she’s the main protagonist, a movie where she isn’t kidnapped and two playable appearances in games that actually happened aren’t enough to say she won’t ever be kidnapped again- she will.
They aren’t going to shake up the “status quo” or whatever. That’s basically what Daisy, Rosalina and Pauline are. Each of them has been kidnapped in some way at least once. They don’t need every single female character to be all independent and a girl boss and able to defend themselves.
There will definitely be games with her as the main character obviously, but the formula has worked well for almost 40 years, and I doubt they’re going to change it any time soon.
And again, Bowser needs some good motives. Not any of this theme park nonsense.
I respectfully heavily disagree with some of this argument and the points here.
Because yeah, Bowser's goals in 3D World & Wonder are simple and dumb. But his plans are literally ALWAYS simple and dumb lol. He is the epitome of a simple and dumb villain. Its his entire appeal. Him screwing over others for his own personal gain, and messing with things he shouldn't like Wonder Flowers, ISN'T the usual for him? Lol. Its no different than every plot of Peach getting kidnapped. And I'd rather see Bowser try out some other dumb schemes, than have the stories ONLY themed around Peach.
I especially think having the stories themed around other things is great, because it allows actual new things to be introduced into the series. Like the Flower Kingdom, or the Sprixie Kingdom. As random as they are at times.
But you are right in that I'm not 100% convinced Nintendo will drop the traditional Peach kidnapped formula. If only because Nintendo is a company that loves to reuse safe troupes... both sometimes out of respect for their legacy, and to just play it safe... or to put it more honestly... nostagia milking lol. Peach being a damsel is such a big part of most of Mario's history, yeeeah its hard to see Nintendo dropping it completely.
But I'm far from close minded on her not being kidnapped, and assuming if she isn't, she's automatically a "girlboss". I can understand not wanting her to overshadow Mario, or getting involved in e v e r y plot. But Mario needs to try new things, and its not unreasonable to think it will going forward. As the Switch Era has clearly shown it does nothing but help most of the time.
@@knux333jw yeah, that’s fair I suppose. I guess it wouldn’t be bad if he tried other things
peach being kidnapped adds literally nothing to the plot. bowser's main motiviation has always been to conquer kingdoms. literally the only time she's ever been relevant to his plan was in odyssey because his and that was because his main goal in that game was specifically to marry her
@@PeachyCatty In the original Super Mario Bros, he kidnapped her because she was the only one who could undo the spell he out in the Toads.
In Mario Sunshine, she was kidnapped so Jr. could have a mother.
In Galaxy 1, she was kidnapped so Bowser could rule the universe with her by his side probably because he’s in love with her.
In Galaxy 2, she was kidnapped because Bowser wanted her to make him a cake and to rule the universe by his side yada yada.
In Odyssey, like you said, he kidnaps her because he wants to marry her.
He’s not kidnapping her just to conquer kingdoms. He’s never really conquered anything. He’s very clearly in love with her and that’s why he kidnaps her all the time.
@@generalcrab0009 he still doesn't need to kidnap her tho. the galaxy games would've been just fine if she had nothing to do with it. plus it's better when she's playable because it adds more female representation & she deserves to be more than just a prize at the end
I don’t care if she takes a break from getting kidnapped. But the truth is I disagree with all the damsel in distress hater’s, including this video. Peach is and will always be a damsel in distress.
Hey man, it's you again, well... I'm just going to say that Peach will always be recognized and remembered as a damsel in distress, but on one hand you have to understand that Peach at least has to do "something", I personally don't hate the damsel in distress role, only if it's not overused, but even if the Mario series has a story other than rescuing princesses it's not a bad thing, but I'm just saying what I think.
@@ButterflyBlossom6415 you again?You do realize her role is not dead or overused right? Nintendo will always make a game that her role is used for.
while i agree it was pretty overdone, they're making peach a bit too tough. like, we get it nintendo, but we got daisy for that.
Agree, It is strange that Nintendo refuses to use Daisy.
@@armorbearer9702 Hopefully Wonder's changed that for the foreseeable future.
It’s not overdone! You did hater’s think it’s overdone like Nintendo!
With Mario Wonder, I hope they give Daisy a bit more to do in the future!
@ make Daisy playable I don’t care.
Because woke
I mean it is a tired trope tbh.
@@jourdonpatron212it’s not a tired trope bitch!
@troybell7444 why are you getting nasty?
@@jourdonpatron212it’s NOT a tired trope! You’re just a damsel in distress hater!
@ because you guys are all damsel in distress haters!!!