I’ve had a look through some of the comments on this clip, and as the fireman in this clip I can confirm the following; 1) No, it wasn’t priming. Showing 3/4 of a glass upon leaving Llangollen is more than enough, considering you’re starting on a 1 in 100, before climbing into a 1 in 80. 2) The sanders were turned on but were not working. We’d turned them on in desperation in the hope they’d do something, which they didn’t! This was an issue before it came to our railway. 3) Sir Keith Park at this point was not in a great mechanical condition. She’d had difficulty at other railways such as the KWVR a year or so earlier, with the same problems. 4) During its visit, an experienced and well respected loco representative was on the footplate at all times, and at no point did he have any issues with how she was handled by either driver or fireman. Any further questions, please feel free to ask!
Cool, lad. Even though I like American trains, the English ones are pretty good. They forged my childhood after all. (Thomas the Tank Engine) I must say Sir Keith is a pretty fine engine, too. Looks strong, probably it’s because of the deflectors.
With all aspects considered as the fireman said I would say its probably the mechanical condition of the loco and or the condition of the tracks plus the gradient. Also bullieds have a reputation for being light footed
Since both the Bullieds as built and rebuilt are prone to slipping, could some sort of adjustment to the steam entering the cylinders help? Just a thought from PICTON, South Island , New Zealand.
I wonder just what it was in Bullied's design that made such a powerful loco, and a prolific producer of steam, just so hopeless at putting the power down onto the track? Surely three cylinders should help produce more even torque and assist in combatting a steam locomotive's natural Acheles heel ? That load to me, just as an interested bystander, appears to be something a 5700 Pannier tank would have taken with ease.
The problem we had with her at Llangollen was just trying to get SKP moving at all. It didn't even really want to move light engine. I did a quick turn on it on the Saturday evening, and the driving was opening the regulator really wide before anything would happen.
This loco had the same problem at Keighley Station, it really struggled on the incline there so I don't think it was the driver in either cases, this loco just doesn't like any sort of incline and slips at the least thing, the fact that the sand boxes weren't working should have had alarm bells ringing with the staff at Llangollen, it's a fair climb out of their so this was always going to be a challenge on slippy track. I don't think this loco is suitable for hilly conditions especially without working sand boxes.
Wouldn't say they generally struggle with inclines as with a tractive effort of about 31,000lb they are more than capable of a 1 in 80 or in 100 gradient. Though it might be because they can be quite light footed and it may be due to the time of year being autumn and can get leaf drop causing lots of problems with slipping and also could be the condition of the loco
As a main line driver found this pain full to watch...clue might of been in title 'autumn gala' Far too many self proclaimed expert drivers on you tube! Stick to hornby train sets! Some movement is movement after all!
A frequent occurrence in autumn conditions is leaf drop as had this on 92 Squadron on the NVR with only a small amount of leaves in the area can make her slip or loose her feet very briefly so can't agree more!
@@RailAdventUK normally the first train of the day can slip as the rails are coated with damp or leaf drop and once the first train clears the rails of the coating of this it normally sorts it for the other services
I fired a number of Bullied engines and they may initially slip on an icy morning or if rails out of gauge. This poor beast was priming, no sign of the sanders being used, and it would be interesting to know if a full inspected (of the last two carriages) brake test was carried out. Always ensure full air at (I would think) 72.5psi., or vacuum 21".,we used to have problems with GWR stock which ran at 25" of vacuum, and always pulled the strings. Problem with the caper on this clip is that it burns the rail which will need crack testing [even at slow speed working.]. I weep for poor old 'Keith Park'.
Don't start criticising other railways practices before you know all the facts. There was a representative from the Severn Valley on the engine who ensured us that we did everything right, and that it was more a problem with the locomotive. I did a relief turn on her as a fireman on her and even on light engine movements, SKIP didn't want to move. The SVR rep. stated that SKIP was always causing problems whenever it was on duty and that they were going to be glad to see the back of it when it left the SVR later that year. I believe a damning report report was sent to the Owning Group about how bad this engine was compared to other Bullieds. And before you start making anymore comments about Llangollen Railways "Poor" footplate practice, we have had other Bullied Pacifics over the years and never had any problems with them. Even the railways biggest Southern loco fan said that SKIP was a bad engine. For god sake, it's called SKIP for a reason... Rant over
Interesting analysis there sir. As the fireman in question in this clip, I can assure you that she wasn’t priming at all. Showing 3/4 of a glass upon leaving Llangollen on a 1 in 100, into a 1 in 80 is more than enough to prevent such a thing. If I’d of primed the loco, I’m fairly confident the loco rep stood behind me wouldn’t of been too impressed.. The sanders were not used because they were not working, the loco rep and our own engineering staff had tried to rectify this during her testing runs before the gala, to no avail. The following day, the decision was taken to bank her out of Llangollen to avoid her slipping again. A full brake test was carried out, and 100% braking was recorded. The brakes naturally rub going around curves, in this case the point work. Coming out of platform 2 is always a tricky business due to several dips between the water tower and the bridge. These were an issue even in BR. Trying to shift a mechanically knackered loco on a gradient. No priming. No stuck brakes. No ‘cracked rails’. Hope that clarified your theory!
I’ve had a look through some of the comments on this clip, and as the fireman in this clip I can confirm the following;
1) No, it wasn’t priming. Showing 3/4 of a glass upon leaving Llangollen is more than enough, considering you’re starting on a 1 in 100, before climbing into a 1 in 80.
2) The sanders were turned on but were not working. We’d turned them on in desperation in the hope they’d do something, which they didn’t! This was an issue before it came to our railway.
3) Sir Keith Park at this point was not in a great mechanical condition. She’d had difficulty at other railways such as the KWVR a year or so earlier, with the same problems.
4) During its visit, an experienced and well respected loco representative was on the footplate at all times, and at no point did he have any issues with how she was handled by either driver or fireman.
Any further questions, please feel free to ask!
Cool, lad. Even though I like American trains, the English ones are pretty good. They forged my childhood after all. (Thomas the Tank Engine) I must say Sir Keith is a pretty fine engine, too. Looks strong, probably it’s because of the deflectors.
With all aspects considered as the fireman said I would say its probably the mechanical condition of the loco and or the condition of the tracks plus the gradient. Also bullieds have a reputation for being light footed
@@NMCAR2006 they don't just look strong but with about 31,000lb of tractive effort they are very capable locomotives
Thanks for your comments Tom, i know heritage railways have a thorough training regime before they can be qualified
I definitely can see in the video, that sand wasn't getting to the rails.
Amazing! Great views of all trains!
Thank you!
You're welcome!
They do need sanding and it is a drag out of this station the regulators on these bulleids always seem to sensitive for a clean start .
Its a steep climb out of Llangollen
Since both the Bullieds as built and rebuilt are prone to slipping, could some sort of adjustment to the steam entering the cylinders help?
Just a thought from PICTON, South Island , New Zealand.
I wonder just what it was in Bullied's design that made such a powerful loco, and a prolific producer of steam, just so hopeless at putting the power down onto the track? Surely three cylinders should help produce more even torque and assist in combatting a steam locomotive's natural Acheles heel ? That load to me, just as an interested bystander, appears to be something a 5700 Pannier tank would have taken with ease.
We aren't sure what was wrong, the Llangollen Railway does have some quite steep gradients, maybe it was this?
Maybe a railhead grind would help? Not that a preservation railway would have access to that kind of kit
Impressive departure from Skip.
Regards
Jake
Everytime we see the loco it gives us an impressive sight! We refer to this video ! ruclips.net/video/SvWVT4EvmTQ/видео.html
Great video. I seem to recall SKP having the same trouble at worth valley the other year. Certainly not a sure footed loco.
kinetic .rail yep. SKP certainly had that problem at the worth valley. Not sure what was wrong here!
Thanks as always
The problem we had with her at Llangollen was just trying to get SKP moving at all. It didn't even really want to move light engine. I did a quick turn on it on the Saturday evening, and the driving was opening the regulator really wide before anything would happen.
In fact you see me on the top of the bank by the sleeping coaches shouting to the fireman.
Thanks for the information Joseph. She seemed to run well later on in the day that we visited.
Poor driver was probably bashing his head against the tender in frustration. Seems like every time he gives the loco a bit of steam it slips.
A tough old climb out of Llangollen!
Should be called "Sir Keith Park" just about manages to stagger out of Llangollen!
nice
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it :-)
So much trouble for a short train. To me the brakes were dragging.
Not sure, quite a steep gradient out of Llangollen
This loco had the same problem at Keighley Station, it really struggled on the incline there so I don't think it was the driver in either cases, this loco just doesn't like any sort of incline and slips at the least thing, the fact that the sand boxes weren't working should have had alarm bells ringing with the staff at Llangollen, it's a fair climb out of their so this was always going to be a challenge on slippy track. I don't think this loco is suitable for hilly conditions especially without working sand boxes.
Ive heard the Bulleids have this problem
Wouldn't say they generally struggle with inclines as with a tractive effort of about 31,000lb they are more than capable of a 1 in 80 or in 100 gradient. Though it might be because they can be quite light footed and it may be due to the time of year being autumn and can get leaf drop causing lots of problems with slipping and also could be the condition of the loco
As a main line driver found this pain full to watch...clue might of been in title 'autumn gala'
Far too many self proclaimed expert drivers on you tube! Stick to hornby train sets!
Some movement is movement after all!
A frequent occurrence in autumn conditions is leaf drop as had this on 92 Squadron on the NVR with only a small amount of leaves in the area can make her slip or loose her feet very briefly so can't agree more!
A lot of leaves has a big effect
*Proves the point those Western Engines could not pull the skin of a Rice Pudding !*
34053 is a southern locomotive :)
It wasn’t the first train that was from carrog by 6430
When we said first train, we meant First Train To Carrog :)
@@RailAdventUK normally the first train of the day can slip as the rails are coated with damp or leaf drop and once the first train clears the rails of the coating of this it normally sorts it for the other services
Very slippy!
Certainly was! Almost had the photographers giving it a push ;)
Thanks for watching and commenting :)
Michael
Looks like forgot to release handbrake !
Not sure to be honest
I fired a number of Bullied engines and they may initially slip on an icy morning or if rails out of gauge. This poor beast was priming, no sign of the sanders being used, and it would be interesting to know if a full inspected (of the last two carriages) brake test was carried out. Always ensure full air at (I would think) 72.5psi., or vacuum 21".,we used to have problems with GWR stock which ran at 25" of vacuum, and always pulled the strings. Problem with the caper on this clip is that it burns the rail which will need crack testing [even at slow speed working.]. I weep for poor old 'Keith Park'.
Don't start criticising other railways practices before you know all the facts. There was a representative from the Severn Valley on the engine who ensured us that we did everything right, and that it was more a problem with the locomotive. I did a relief turn on her as a fireman on her and even on light engine movements, SKIP didn't want to move. The SVR rep. stated that SKIP was always causing problems whenever it was on duty and that they were going to be glad to see the back of it when it left the SVR later that year. I believe a damning report report was sent to the Owning Group about how bad this engine was compared to other Bullieds. And before you start making anymore comments about Llangollen Railways "Poor" footplate practice, we have had other Bullied Pacifics over the years and never had any problems with them. Even the railways biggest Southern loco fan said that SKIP was a bad engine. For god sake, it's called SKIP for a reason... Rant over
Interesting analysis there sir. As the fireman in question in this clip, I can assure you that she wasn’t priming at all. Showing 3/4 of a glass upon leaving Llangollen on a 1 in 100, into a 1 in 80 is more than enough to prevent such a thing. If I’d of primed the loco, I’m fairly confident the loco rep stood behind me wouldn’t of been too impressed..
The sanders were not used because they were not working, the loco rep and our own engineering staff had tried to rectify this during her testing runs before the gala, to no avail. The following day, the decision was taken to bank her out of Llangollen to avoid her slipping again.
A full brake test was carried out, and 100% braking was recorded. The brakes naturally rub going around curves, in this case the point work.
Coming out of platform 2 is always a tricky business due to several dips between the water tower and the bridge. These were an issue even in BR.
Trying to shift a mechanically knackered loco on a gradient. No priming. No stuck brakes. No ‘cracked rails’. Hope that clarified your theory!
Im sure the crews are more than capable :)
Typical battle of Britain class loco slips on match stick still good video though
Thank you Dan!
That was frustrating to watch.
Certainly seemed like it needed a push from on lookers ;)
Help!
Needs a push!
Agonising...
Lots of steam!
steam engine slip as they do not have a clutch like a motor cars
They do have a reverser :)
What were they playing at?
Most likely some sort of problem - worked ok coming out of Berwyn (the next station)
We were playing at trying to get a mechanically knackered engine to climb out of a 1 in 100 start on a loaded service!