The greater will has 2 fingers, the frenzied flame has 3 (one a thumb). I always thought that they might have been, at one point, one complete hand and I wondered if the DLC, if it takes place in the past, might have the tarnished interact with it.
Honestly there's one good reason why I disagree with the "fingers are the Erdtree's mycelial network" thing: when he receives a two-finger prayerbook, Corhyn states it does *not* bare any ancestry within the Golden Order, which is based around the Erdtree. Which could just be because it's a generic response for everything but a certain book, but still.
In liturgical description on Jesus holding his hand with "two fingers pointing up" as symbolising" as above so below" is the meaning of blessing by priests. So maybe in Elden ring is the embodiment of the blessing or the symbolism of communication with a God through these fingers as "an antenna/amplification". I also believe like, our religious priests act autonomously, by corruption, influence, and subjectivity so they, the fingers, can be manipulated/manipulate that's why there are different types of fingers . I believe they meant to mirror some higher priests(patriarch)
What if the Fingurs were CREATED (like the one reborn in BB) and after the failure of the one made of wood that died, they realised they needed flesh to make it living. And Ranni was against this creation.
I am going to be honest with you, in my own humble opinion without being sentimental of course, without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter from a distinctive perspective, I would like to say I have nothing to say.
Yeah, the Outer Gods are probably super bored. There probably isn't much to do out in the lifeless depths of space. "I'm so bored...I'm gonna go mess with those primitive humanoids again, that always cheers me up!" Under that logic, maybe the Greater Will just got tired of the game and went off to do something else. That would explain why the Two Fingers couldn't get in touch with the Greater Will, it's not interested in playing with this tamagotchi any more!
I genuinely believe when Martin wrote the lore for the fingers, he didn't think Fromsoft would take him literally. I believe they were written as humanoids, and the weird ass giant hands we got are because Fromsoft is very dreamlike and less grounded than Martin is
I disagree. The fingers being fingers is important in what the greater will actually is. Making a vid rn on another channel, won't say the name of it though because advertising in other people's comments section is cringe.
I loved that it turned out this way, at least from my perspective as a player. When I heard about "The fingers" I too thought it was either a symbolic or metaphorical name, not a literal finger monster haha. When I saw it for the first time I was taken aback. I fell in love with the concept of their portrayal immediately, it felt like Elden Ring was combining Dark Souls and Bloodborne concepts in the same story.
@@pinip_f_werty1382 Sure, that's how it is NOW but most of the lore was written by Fromsoft, not Martin. Martin wrote the broad strokes of the world, including the two fingers. I'm not saying they shouldn't be literal fingers, I'm saying I doubt that was what was intended by Martin
The game absolutely sets you up to assume that the two fingers are two normal people whose titles are "the two fingers." Presumably they would be the leaders of the finger maidens, finding out that they're LITERAL fingers is classic fromsoft silliness.
Interesting points about the fingers written "language". Anyone notice that the filigree circlet around Rannis hat appears to resemble the same finger text on the roundtable weapons
It's interesting that most great runes take the shape of a ring, and if runes are similar to souls, then the fingers look like they could wear these great runes/souls like rings. There is an expression to have someone wrapped around your finger, which means more or less to have control over them. LotR vibes =)
And The Lands Between, being a land where people literally don't die inhabited by gods and immortal beings, seperated from the more "mundane" lands by mist and sea is basically Aman and Valinor from Lotr. Of course both Lotr and Elden Ring are based on Germanic and Norse myth so there's that too. Now all we need are Numenoreans going off with an completely insane plan to build a huge fleet and literally invade the land of the gods. Maybe they could be motivated by the flame or other blasphemous imagery.
@@sethleoric2598 It's hard to tell Marika's motivation besides being immortal and if we take Gideon's words for face value, to have people or the tarnished struggle or eternity. But I agree with everything you say, I'm convinced she came on ships and conquested the lands like a holy crusade or something, but when I start question if they are spaceships is when I tell myself "why dont I just wait for the dlc" lmfao!. But yea I feel like fromsoft took all the great inspriations they've picked up over the years and grafted it all into an amazing game, I would go as far to say that I think someones girlfriend in fromsoft got someone to watch sailor moon, between the liurnian moon people and the cocoon of evil and rebirth.
I agree that the fingers are fungi, like the dead man's fingers. This is another Lovecraftian thing, in the mythos there are eldritch space fungi, so having a space fungi as a herald to an Outer God makes sense. Besides, there is a lot of fungi imagery through Miyazaki's games, and Elden Ring is very much Medieval Bloodborne.
@@benjaminc0717it’s early modern to be sure. Their firearms are decently advanced, the architecture is more reminiscent of an early modern style rather than a medieval one(gothic revival, specific to the early 19th century). Yeah a bit crazy to think that it was happening during the same time as the industrial revolution. But I guess Yharnam is a pretty secluded place, so the industrialisation process hasn’t caught up yet. Either that or Miyazaki was actually planning a second DLC where we explore a bunch of coal mines and workhouses
@@benjaminc0717of course many places are older, like Cainhurst, and don’t get me started on the chalice dungeons. But I think large parts of Yharnam proper at least were rebuilt by the healing church.
Something that sticks with me is that the hand enemies are weak to fire. There could be a connection to that and the fact that the dead fingers look like wood. If they are almost like fleshy wood or mushrooms, connected to the roots of the Erdtree, wouldn't it also have an extra layer of significance when we burn the Erdtree? And if so, I wonder if there's something deeper to those hand enemies and the finger hammer we can get. Maybe they're related in some way?
I always took the hand enemies as a weak imitation made to try to replicate the grace giving fingers, kinda like the mimic tear was a weak imitation of an elden lord.
@@DGiovanni I mean near everything is, but in the context of the game and the theory, it kinda makes sense. Certain enemies react more to certain elemental damage than others, I'm sure you know. But if we're going with that logic, shouldn't everything react similarly to fire in that case? Not trying to bash you at all, just want to give some thoughts on that logic if it were applied properly
@@BubblenutMcMuffin If everything is weak to fire IRL then why does it matter that mushrooms are also weak to fire? By that logic the hands being weak to fire means they could be anything.
I really like your "Two Fingers are mushrooms"-theory and i noticed something while watching your video that adds up with that theory. On top of the divine towers where the Fingers are found, there is a patch of earth in which they are placed in. The whole tower is made of solid stone but it seems that the Fingers need to be connected to the earth to be able to exist, just like mushrooms and that is why they specifically added this patch of earth at the top.
@@megabuilder15 Yee, not visibly, but there is a theory that says that the round table is not a physical place, but that it is inside the tree and is part of it. So meaby thats why there is one there
@@victoracuna9504 I mean that's barely a theory but pretty much confirmed. We know the roundtable is disconnected from the physical world, and we know it burns when the tree burns. There's not really any other options than it being a construction connected to the erdtree
One thing that I don't see mentioned very often. Just because the games tells us that the Fingers are connected to the Greater Will and yadah yadah, doesn't mean it's true. It can be the interpretation that the people of the Lands Between make of them, etc. Just because we have a piece of Lore given by the game doesn't mean that's the actual truth. Remember that in DS1 we are told that Artorias defeated the Abbyss and then on the DLC we see that he actually sucumbed to it, and it's our character the one that does it. So, just because the game says there is a Greater Will, adn that the fingers are connected to it and all that, maybe it's just the explanation the people in the Lands Between give to this beings that are beyond their comprehension.
Very unlikely. The Finger Maidens get this information directly from the Fingers. Either the Fingers would have to be lying to them (very unlikely) or the Finger Maidens would have to be lying to us (even more unlikely).
@@avalokitesvara4092LOL The entire point of the Dark Souls series in general was about the distortion and manipulation of history by both God and Man and inbetween, and you think its unlikely that an Eldritch abomination would lie? Jesus fucking christ.
@@johnsmith-xw7hv What you call "manipulation of history" in Dark Souls is simply different opinions on the desirable fate of the world and yes it is very unlikely that the Fingers are lying: we know that the Outer Gods exist. We know that there are Fingers who are undoubtedly related to Outer Gods (Three Fingers). It is therefore very likely that the Two Fingers are the same. When the Erdtree rejects us after the fight against Morgott the Fingers are perplexed and go to commune with the Greater Will. If the Fingers are lying about the Greater Will, what is the meaning of this?
You have to remember the lore exist only in the menu, and is said directly at the player not as info that’s exist as part of the world. Funny because this is the most spoon fed way of telling a story in the industry, no thinking required just mindlessly believing what your told.
@@ManEaterBrainBug it is just confirmed if you look back in every dlc they add they just ignore what they did and add new things which throw every theory in the garbage
For those curious. The finger crawlers and the Finger Club are pieces of Rhycard severed, regrown and animated by some magic. Im pretty sure they are given the life energy he absorbed from his consumed victims
There are mushrooms growing near and around Ranni's two fingers. Maybe they were always growing around them or maybe they only started growing when they died? None of the other fingers are in an environment with the conditions for some kinds of mushrooms to grow. The 3 fingers and the living 2 fingers are enclosed in structures. Cut off from having any "roots" connecting to the Erdtree, like Ranni's fingers. All the petrified wood looking dead fingers we find have seemingly been "uprooted" and placed on top of a tower with no cover of darkness or connecting soil. It's like they were placed there to die. Where at least the living 2 fingers and the 3 fingers are in dark or dim areas which can be suitable for healthy mushrooms. But still cutoff from any soil/roots connection. So Ranni's 2 fingers being the most powerful, being the ones with the most activity, may be because they are actually connected to soil, in a dim area, and can reach the ErdTree and potentially have a stronger connection with the Greater Will. So they are the most powerful. But then why are the living 2 fingers put inside the roundtable hold? The living 2 fingers are the ones that seem the least powerful and make questionable actions (or inactions) that don't necessarily seem to line up with the Greater Will. Maybe they just have a weaker connection to the ErdTree? Bit tinfoil hatty but I think the finger readers placed them there, powerless, as a show. The finger readers can say whatever they want to lead or mislead the Tarnished, and the living two fingers are powerless to do anything about it. When we take on the frenzied flame, other NPC's don't seem to be aware, other than Melina. The living 2 fingers inability to do anything would make it make sense why they don't say anything about us taking on the Frenzied Flame. Surely the 2 fingers can tell that we have, but they can't speak, they are a powerless prisoner. The finger readers are just oblivious to it. I think the finger readers are servants of the Golden Order and NOT the greater will. Maybe they once were, but no longer. So they've imprisoned the 2 living fingers. All the other fingers have been killed by being placed on top of towers, possibly by their personal demi-gods even. But the finger readers don't know where Ranni's 2 fingers are. If they were actually in communication with the Greater Will like Ranni's fingers, they would know where they are, and likely would have uprooted them as well and placed them on a tower to die so they would not interfere.
Honestly, I thought the two fingers and three fingers perfectly fit into the game. I have no idea what you mean by "shouldn't exist". Heck, this video made them fit even more into the lore, not less. Still entertaining, and love the Mushroom Theory Also, the three finger's location is explained. It was summoned there by the great caravan after they were all buried alive. Shabriri told a lie about them worshipping the three fingers, and the golden order sealed them away down there in an act of utter cruelty. Such a fate was so horrible that the great caravan would wish for death. for freedom from their suffering. "A frenzied flame to melt away the curses, suffering and despair, and the order entire." So, the three fingers are there because that is where they were summoned. It wasn't corrupted, it always was a servant of the frenzied flame. And I don't get the whole "pay no mind to inheiritng the flame" argument, as the fingers might not be aware the tarnished has inheirited the flame in the first place. Just like they might not realise you're going to burn the Erdtree, even if it's against the Greater Will's wishes. (Edited for clarity and expanding on initial ideas)
Personally, it feels like the Fingers were an idea that didn't pan out for the story but the devs couldn't just remove them. So, they made them as mysterious as they could without having to elaborate further. They probably had a greater, more explained role back when the Crucible was going to be a big part of the story.
@@PuffnStuff117 i will indirectly harm you through telepathical waves according to youtube guidelines, i cannot harm you personally but enough of that how was your day
The two fingers act as antennas, communing with the greater will and even radiating its influence. It’s why the nox and Iji made literal tinfoil hats to “ward off the influence of the greater will” When the two fingers says it needs to commune with the greater will, it stands stick straight and goes dormant. The finger reader says this could take a thousand years. Which makes since as I’m sure the greater will is far far away in space.
Honestly? Maybe it's as simple as the game giving us the forks (similar method of flipping people the middle finger, but in Australia with sexual connotations). Those fingers are conniving bastards, regardless of how many fingers they have.
Good vid, but your mushroom biology is off. Trees rely on mycorrhizal fungi, or fungi whose hyphae intertwine the tree's roots. In doing so, the tree is able to expand it's ability to capture water by leeching through fungal hyphae, while the fungus is able to attain starches from the tree roots. This relationship is classified as symbiotic since both organisms benefit and neither is harmed. There is no such thing as funguses communicating the state of the "biosphere" (that means the sum of all ecosystems btw) :)
Two and Three Fingers are one of the most mysterous character to me. While I'm not buying the five fingers makes a hand theory, I believe that they (2 and 3) used to work together or probably were from the some origin. Greater Will and Frenzied Flame are very like twins to me, but they are mirrored.
Five Finger theory makes perfect sense when you consider: 1. You find Fingerslaying Blade in Nokron, that is fetish made out of a previous dead god. (Similar to Radagon´s sacred relic sword). This blade is named Fingerslaying sword, so it has hurt fingers in the past. Description even states in past tense that it is capable of harming them. So, it has harmed fingers in the past. Also wounds of this weapon never heal. So if one, say, cut Five Fingers in two, it would stay separated permanently. 2. Beasts used to regard Five Fingers as a sign of civilization that gave them intelligence (beast incantations and hidden Cinquedea ritual sword, which means Five Fingers. This ritual sword even has picture of five fingers) 3. Ancient Dragons have Five Fingers in their hands, mortal, weaker dragons three. 4. Placidusax actually has FIVE heads. Three are cut off. 5. Elden Ring used to be lot more complete in the past. 6. Lords Divine Fortification incantations says the world was broken long time ago. 7. Greater Will sent Elden Beast in response to ancient "crime" by Nox. What is this ancient crime, then? 8. Nox used to be normal Numen, but something happened that caused them to hide underground, as if they were afraid to dwell under open sky. 9. Dragons and beastmen worshipped Greater Will and Greater Will granted beasts intelligence. So it is really easy to decipher that Farum Azula civilization worshiped Greater Will (gold, lightning, Elden Ring predecessor with gold) and had a god. Numen, who were rebellious then killed this god. They then mutilated his/her body into weapon to cut the fingers into Two and Three in attempt to sever the messages running between Lands Between and Greater Will. They built their cities deep underground to remain hidden and undetected by Greater Will and even wore mirror helms to that end. However, Greater Will somehow realized what had happened, and after many moons, sent one of its direct vassals to bring justice to the perpetrators. Perhaps Five Fingers managed to send one final message before being split in two? Nox city of Leyndell underground was destroyed, and its name was removed from annals of history. Numen who were not able to escape to other eternal cities were transformed into Ant-Queens as punishment. Elden Beast is capable of shaping living things, as Radagon´s fate and Elden RIng´s epither (shaper of life) refers to. However, there were handful of faithful Numen among traitors. Marika was then a mere girl, innocent to crimes of her people, and she was appointed as the next god, because she was only suitable host. Three Fingers that is stuck in "Error, error, reboot" mode is hidden deep underground. Nox hate Marika with a passion because she is an apostate to them.
Enia and the finger reader crones don't look particularily healthy either, nor do the general inhabitants and foot soldiers in the lands between. It's a side effect from being alive for thousends of years; same probably also goes for the fingers. Either that or they have untreated diabetes.
i assume the two fingers appeared during the primordial age of the crucible since they share a lot of physical similarities with creatures from that time. The hair on the misbegotten, Placidusax, and the fingers all look the same
If Hyetta and the three fingers are to be believed, the greater will and the god of frenzy were once one, and if you add two and three together, you get five. It’s possible these fingers represent the divided hand of the one.
Sick theory about the Dead Man's Fingers mushrooms! And also drawing the analogy of hermetic alchemy, really cool stuff. Didn't even think of it that way yet. Elden Ring is truly a piece of art. Also thanks for the awesome vid, looking forward to more!
They serve each empyrean, which have all given birth, all female, except for Miquella, but it can be argued his possible other half, St. Trina, his Radagon, was to birth his new form in the Haligtree, as seen above Malenia's arena. Mohg probably ripped Miquella's cocoon from the Haligtree/Trina womb. But anyways, the Two Fingers serve these females specifically to guide them on the way to create new lineages and demigods. They are most strangely seen on the pendant, I don't remember which one, as having legs, making them an X shape. They do in fact look like X Chromosomes. Maybe that has something to do with all those they guide being female and more specifically those who give birth, split rebus-like beings included. Don't know why they are just the two fingers then in the game then if they supposedly had a more x-shape form.
that was a cut content Miquella is 100% a male the people misunderstood his beauty as feminine he is after all inspired by Griffith which has the these adjectives
@@kaiserdetectivegolden2735 Yes, Miquella is 100% male... In the waking world. But, even if it is cut content, I don't care, there's still enough in the game to imply so. St. Trina is probably the other form he takes in his dream. It can be a different person completely, but that connection is still there since St. Trina would most likely be a creation of Miquella in some way or another. Again, mirroring the whole vigin birth concept that Marika/Radagon went through. One being, an Empyrean, giving birth to a new tree of demigods. Also, not everything is a Berserk reference, Griffith isn't the eternal insparation for every man that is effeminate looking. Although, I will agree that the descriptions that describe him being able to sway those with his beauty to be similar to Griffith.
A really interesting take. Some of the comments I would make seem to already be covered so I would like to make a Lore Tangent. I've been looking at the Elden Ring image in Malekith's arena lately. I know many folks have leaned on this being an image of an Elden Ring with more runes in it and I use to share this belief. But I have sense changed my mind and possibly realized what the relief is showing. It isn't showing an Elden Ring with a bunch of extra rune parts. It is an symbol that is meant to be considerd in the same way as the Erdtree Seal or more closely to the iconography for Crucible spells or when you use Morgott's Shackle. The Elden Ring is at the center but it is inside something just like in those symbols/icons. The Helix that can be spotted at the bottom is not a missing part of the ring, the helix represents the wind of the "True Storm", swirling into a tornado that reaches up into the sky. The things we have considered roots, are Lightning. Before you gut react, remember Placidusax was once Elden Lord and the Dragon's faith magic is lightning. Lightning that was deemed to not contradict the Golden Order, this is why. The tornado at the heart of Farum Azula is all that is left of the True Storm. When we rewind time to face Placidusax not only does Farum rebuild itself but the storm grows in size. In Placidusax's arena, when he is alive storms rage in the distance, we are in the past. Because we can't see anything else around us but open sky this likely means at this point in time Farum Azula was higher than even the Mountain Top of the Giants, at least Placidusax's "throne" was. So that distant lightning could be reaching as far as Limgrave far all we can tell. Another interesting thing to point out is that Placidusax was Elden Lord in his time, and like the other 2 we know of he had a "God" (Marika equivalent). If the relationship between Lord and God are consistent that means his God dwelled with him in Farum Azula, in the SKY. This means the Elden Ring would have been hosted in the Sky. So the statues depicted under the relief of the Elden Ring in Malekith's arena is depicting the Elden Ring reigning on high above men (the girl statue) and beasts (wolves). The most interesting implication of this also requires us to realize the game is called Elden Ring, and not Erdtree. So in all likelihood, if there is an Elden Ring 2, with a Darksouls style time jump, we can probably expect something other than a Giant Tree. It will be in whatever thing the people of that time deem sacred, could be a sacred pond for example.
Kind of interesting wording. They call the Two fingers master Orators (not masters of speech, or understanding, but Orators which would imply masters of spoken words) when in the next breath specifying that they cannot speak. Almost like they are saying that they are implying that the Two fingers talk, but don't actually say anything.
Oration from English to Latin can come from two different roots according to etymology; first from latin as or, oris, meaning indeed mouth. Or from Proto-Indo-European *h₂er- (“to pronounce a ritual”) that in other languages has evolved to mean worshipping, revering or an act consulting oracle. It is clever wordplay implying that Fingers are masters of rituals, prayers and matters of worship, which is fitting, because they are essentially divine oracles.
The thing is we don’t see any of the two fingers besides the round table hold until AFTER we’ve killed their rune bearers, they could be completely healthy beforehand and die when we kill their corresponding character. Ranni’s fingers being active supports this. Additionally, considering the location of the original round table hold and the three fingers I believe that they’re both parts of the roots of the Erdtree. I think frenzy is an aspect of the golden order, it is a part of the erdtree and as inseparable from it as the two fingers (hence why Melina gets so mad she’s trying to defy the golden order and the three fingers are a part of it). Perhaps the three fingers are roots of the tree that existed before and exist beside the new erdtree and the new two fingers. It’s like yin and Yang, order and chaos exist upon one hand and within the erdtree
Something I've always found noteworthy about our Two Fingers is their head confessor's names is Crepus, which is a shortening of crepuscular, of or relating to dawn/dusk. This to me suggests the Fingers in the roundtable may have been the ones who chose the Gloam-Eyed Queen as an Empyrean, as they're both associated with the transitional state between day and night. Ranni's Two Fingers are more explicitly linked to night time, and I assume Marika was also once chosen as an Empyrean by a hypothetical pair of Fingers representing "the day". I think just like day turning into night and back again, the Two Fingers' collective job is to shape and influence the transition from one age into another, by picking Empyreans to duke it out and also guiding the tarnished to end any kind of stalemate. Doesn't explain why they're fingers, though.
I think the fingers in the roundtable are Marikas. She placed hewg in there to aid the tarnished defeting radagon and the figners there guide the tarnished basicaly on the same path.
Few things: 1. Does Rani's hat have the cypher around it? The metal detail looks oddly like the coded sword or the two circular rings symbolizing the two fingers sigil 2. When Melina burns the erd tree the same music that begins during the elden beast boss fight begins playing. Could there be a connection between the two?
The giants who were conquered in the war against the giants are found in the mountaintops. There are indeed colossal remains of some sort, but I'm not convinced they're giants. I think the fingers as a metaphor is a stronger theory. And the fingers as fungus theory is a good one too.
The mushroom theory makes a ton of sense given how much of a motif it is. Something so obvious I feel like people kind of overlook it is that the game is about the Elden Ring and that fingers are what wear rings, so it makes perfect sense for fingers to be a huge part of this game.
Orators in ancient Rome would use the sign of two raised fingers to signify they were speaking and that others should pay attention and be silent. It eventually became a used as a Christian sign for a benediction, or blessing. Many depictions of Christ picture him using the sign. The Prana Mudra is a yogic hand gesture that involves the upraised index and middle finger, and is used to channel life force. Elden Ring has tons of religious symbolism. I think the connections to oration and divinity fit really well with what the Two Fingers in Elden Ring are meant to be.
@@leohirtsche8341 The benediction sign sometimes includes the thumb, with the three fingers signifying the holy trinity. I don't know how that would relate to the Three Fingers of the Frenzied Flame, though, so I didn't mention it. I have a feeling there's probably a connection to the Godhand from Berserk (because there are ALWAYS connections to Berserk in Miyazaki's games), but that's another can of worms entirely. It would probably take a whole video to explain, but I'm not a RUclipsr lol
The crawling hands resemble Rykard's hands, and two places they're concentrated are around his current residence (Volcano Manor) and in the place that was likely his childhood home (Caria Manor). They're also out in full force on the Mountaintop of Giants, and given how Rykard burned down a minor Erdtree in the past, he might be seeking the forge to burn the main Erdtree.
Considering the lineage and every connection involved, I'd put money on the fingers being from giant's hands. I'm genuinely hoping there will be Fell God content or some context from the war against the previous God. Good on Zio for mentioning the unnecessary amount of connecting you have to do outside of but including the games given lore.
It's an interesting theory but it seems to ignore some other placements in the game such as the leyndell sewers outside of Dung Eaters cell and the ambush they have in Altus around a group of St Trina flowers. They could be outside of dung eaters cell because they need to keep the mad wild card in check but the random placement of hands at the st trina flowers is unexplained, perhaps a one off thing but still curious.
@@IncensedAgitator rykard served as a judge for the golden order for a time if im not mistaken. with that in mind i don’t think there’s any dissonance with the hands being in lyndell sewers.
A small thing I haven't heard mentioned is that Ranni's two fingers appear to be burrowing underground, when you find it's corpse you can observe the joints in the fingers are facing outwards, and are in a clasped position as if scraping at the wall. What was it digging down to? I guess we'll never know.
Considering Ranni coming after them with the finger slayer blade that facing away could be "running" away. They definitly seem to be in agony from the slaying given thre trembling position. I like the idea that it was given to ranni up there in the building and it wants to leave. But it cant go outside cause of the freaking dragon and wanted to dig it's way out.
Actually I think you broadly fail to reference anyone who did the work that you base your videos on. Maybe, mention them in the video description since nowerdays that the details of the video and not a description at all
I think you’re mistaken. I came up with the mushroom theory, haven’t heard anyone else mention it ever. Even if they did have something similar, I did all of the research on my own
I always assumed the Two Fingers atop each divine tower were there for each Demigod/Shardbearer to visit and commune with the Greater Will...and they've since died and dried up after The Shattering.
I think Zio is looking for explanation where there is none. Or rather, there is none other than "GRRM created the mythology of this game, but Miyazaki probably created the fingers. The lore GRRM created is rich and deep and intertwined, though bleak and somewhat hard to fathom without all the information. The addition of Miyazaki is as weird and out of place as ALL of his random stuff."
You could take the two fingers out of the game and they wouldn’t be missed. Probably one of the most unnecessary “main story NPC’s” in any of the souls games. Maybe the DLC will shed light
I mean... Lol anything with a "they don't make sense" title. Do they have to make sense? Shoot. They could be alien space dick gods and from software could put hella good lore behind them.
@Ziostorm "The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it." ― Omar Khayyám
the "Two Fingers" represent players' hands, and their "language of light" is binary (low/high voltage electrical signals) that is "translated" by Finger Readers (code compilers). I'm probably reaching with the language of light/compiler stuff but I def think the Two Fingers are supposed to be a parallel to our thumbs manipulating our character via the controller. I think the idea was to guide players to the realization that their role as controller-holder kind of makes us another Outer God influencing the Lands Between indirectly. the blog With A Terrible Fate did a super interesting essay describing the idea in a lot more detail (which is what originally led me to see the Two Fingers this way) called "How Elden Ring Turns Its Player into an Outer God"
Ok, your "threes" numerology being a bad thing got me thinking: 3 Marika X Godfrey kids: Morgott, Mogh, Godwyn 3 Radagon X Rennala kids: Rykard, Ranni, Radahn 3 Marika X Radagon kids: Miquella, Malenia, and Melina My rationales for Melina being an empyrian child: "born at the foot of the erdtree", substantial evidence that she is the gloam eyed queen, and the three types of butterflies. 3 times there were 3 offspring from Marika, which could be what the 2 (perfection number) omen children were omens of. I know there are other explanations for why omens are the way they are and that there were other demigods slain in the night of the black knives, however, I still think it lines up pretty nicely.
Two fingers and three fingers make a whole hand! And the Three Fingers' "dialogue" suggests to me that in the times of the Crucible, the Two and Three Fingers were joined. Or rather, there was an original Five Fingers species or individual. Also, there's an association between Beastmen/"the beasts who first gained intelligence" and five-fingered hands. I conjecture that the Beastmen are the ancestors of humanity, and at the end of "prehistoric times" the flame of the Crucible was split into the Flame of Frenzy (chaos) and a flame of order (the Golden Order?) along with their representatives, the first Two and Three Fingers. The 3F can grab, so they probably represent the thumb, index, and middle fingers; they evoke the image of a claw, grasping and clutching, primordial and bestial. Then the 2F would have the be the ring and pinky fingers; they represent dexterity, stability, daresay refinement. So I think in this early era, beasthood and humanity became distinct, and before even the Greater Will showed up on the scene, the Two Fingers provided guidance to early man in matters of faith and possibly prejudice.
I don´t think Two Fingers are out of place at all. If they are mushrooms, they make perfect sense in context of the game. Greater Will uses language of light to communicate. (These ciphers seem to be inspired by sanskrit Devanāgarī script "language from the heavens", or Tolkien´s Tengwar script) Trees rely on light to live and therefore understand language of light perfectly, but trees are not exactly able to communicate with animals and human beings. However, they regularly communicate with mushrooms. It would make sense in that context that trees are so revered even before Erdtree. Mushrooms are connected with tree roots and thus understand language of light through their correspondence with the trees. Mushrooms are also much more animate than plants, sprouting quickly and even moving around (slime molds) and therefore can wriggle and wiggle in a way that human ascetics can try to decipher what they mean. Once scholars understand that these giant mushrooms actually try to convey something meaningful through their movement, religion is formed. Finger readers become first priests of the budding religion and Fingers divine messengers of sorts. Divine Towers also are of the same architecture as forge of the Giants, so I think Divine Towers and Finger religion predate Erdtree itself by far. So these demonstrates that words of the Greater Will come through many interpreters and, no doubt, are subject to many misreadings down the chain. Greater Will > Trees > Fingers > Finger Readers > Religious community. This is also why Erdtree is so important for the religion, it is massive holy tree that no doubt would be able to work as a direct link with Greater Will much better than any ordinary tree. Remember how Elden Beast´s arena has many Erdtrees reaching into it? Erdtree links metaphysical to physical. However, I imagine when rebellious Numen, later known as Nox, cut Five Fingers into Two and Three, the message was splintered. It would make sense Two Fingers only get scrambled messages if at all. Two Fingers try to maintain the order despite shortcomings, while Three Fingers receive Error, Error, Reboot, messages. I would not even be surpised, if Two Fingers have been winging it somewhat in later years. It would also make Greater Will even more mysterious entity. Only action we know that was by its direct intervention, was to retaliate against the Nox when they killed previous god, made his/her body into Fingerslaying blade, and split the Five Fingers in two. Essentially, Greater Will sends middle-manager (Elden Beast) to personally take care of the problem that locals can´t handle. I would not be surprised if the ciphers in incantations and weapons actually are translatable. After all, titanite slabs essentially told the full story of the game in Dark Souls 1. Perhaps they are inverted Devanagari script, or Tengw. Alchemical/occult treatises put much emphasis on secret languages that only the adept would be able to read. Ï hope someone can uncover what those ciphers mean!
The mycelium network idea makes sense, especially considering the fate of the Haligtreee. It was removed if the network to prevent interacting with the Greater Will and was sustained purely by Miquella. Once Mohg removed him, the Haligtree would have started dying. What even more interesting is that this connects further with the ideas of Convergence, Regression, and Causality from the Golden Order. If the Greater Will is a kind of myconid being, that would connect it to the Rot God corrupting Malenia. Fungi are a huge part of corrupted areas. In the All-Seeing set it states that Gideon saw Marika's truth, something terrifying that shouldn't exist. We also know that Marika broke the Elden Ring, likely because of this deeper, horrifying knowledge. It could be that many of the Outer Gods are simply aspects of a single being. Just had a thought given that flame and ice are prevalent themes here and the Crucible of Life is a thing. This could reference Scandinavian folklore about Muspelheim and Nifelheim, the lands of fire and ice. The Crucible of Life sat between the two poles. And interestingly, we have fire giants here rather than the ice giants of legend.
Being mildly unfathomable helps build their position within the world. Of course it ties to hand of god. They basically exist simultaneously in another dimension (keeping them from harm). And similar to the voice/scribe of God, they communicate God's will through other means, as people can't understand such themselves. Tying to Gnostic structure that these games build upon, the Fingers are basically the equivalent of Metatron. Metatron is also tied to the theory that there could be more Gods in Heaven (but that they're still not all equal). There's also stories of Enoch being turned to Flames, drawing a correlation to the Fingers of the Frenzies Flame. " _This Enoch, whose flesh was turned to flame, his veins to fire, his eye-lashes to flashes of lightning, his eye-balls to flaming torches, and whom God placed on a throne next to the throne of glory, received after this heavenly transformation the name Metatron._ " And so on. All the alchemical stuff was basically just a precautionary path to the prior Gnostic (and Hermetic) roots that it built upon.
I do think they're fingers because hands can reach for things. They are literally the Greater Will's hands. The legs, however, were probably not in the game because Miyazaki's staff had to hold him back from making feet characters.
What if I told you GoldMask represents you the player, the one who studies lore of elden ring incessantly, combing every detail, yet missing that critical piece of information: That Melina IS both Marika and Ranni. Melina, who has the gold eye of Marika, the Gloam Eye of Ranni. The one who casts ancient Erdtree spells but fights like a black knife assassin. What if it wasn't just Ranni's body that got split, but also her soul. One half of her soul taken and merged with part of Marika, giving birth to her new form at the Erdtree.
I always had the Theory that the Two Fingers are in some Kind of Parasitic Relationship with either the Erdtree or Humans, as the fingers dont need Nutrients or Water to survive, but Faith. Faith in all of Fromsoft's Games isn't a measure of how much You believe in The Golden Order, the Greater Will or any other Religion the game calls "Holy", but a scale on how much you believe in literally anything. As Faith not only benefits weapons like the Sacred Relic Sword, the weapon of a literal God, but also its "Enemies", like the Blasphemous Blade, Godslayer Greatsword or even weapons imbued with the Flame of Frenzies Power. The Fingers are Parasites (Lets even say they are mushrooms) that feed on the Faith of People. The ones in Roundtable Hold have people believing in them (even if the faith in them is little, wich would explain their rotten state) Around them all the time, the ones on the Holy Towers are cut of, the Towers remote, and the Doors sealed. They died. Rannis two Fingers had a thing to do, they had a task, they had purpose, and also where connected to the earth, so they could get Nutrients from the Erdtree. The last ones, the Three Fingers seem to have the most energie out of the Fingers we actually see. In my opinion thats because they have the most active Followers in the Humans, the Rats and every Creature Corrupted by the Flame of Frenzie.
I will have to correct one thing. The Kaath comparison is poor. The Two fingers are like both Frampt and Kaath. Frampt advocated maintaining the current age, Kaath advocated bringing on a new age. The Three Fingers however advocate a pure regression. It would be like calling a Stone Dragon that wants to return the world of DarkSouls to the Age of Gray Crags and uniformity, and saying that's the same thing as what Kaath advocated for.
To me, they look like chromosomes, even the three fingered variety of the frenzied flame. Them silently instructing the characters in the story would be like chromosomes deciphering DNA and controlling/shaping cells in a body. I know it’s a stretch, but there’s a weird corrupted body metaphor happening throughout the game. The map is a giant finger. There are gargantuan bodies making up the landscape throughout. The grafting, the scarlet rot, the perfumers, the tree guardians all point to an unbalanced, decaying world. What if the Erd Tree and the Elden beast are a literal cancer of the land, and the fingers are spreading its corruption? Just a thought
Personally, I think this fanbase has a bad habit of making straightforward things sound nonsensical for no reason. The game repeatedly tells us that the Two Fingers, just like the Elden Beast/Elden Ring, are vassals of the Greater Will. How exactly they're made isn't relevant, they're creations of the Greater Will just like the beast is and carry out its bidding. The game even tells us they've been around since the Prehistoric Era before the Erdtree and gave the beastmen of Farum Azula intelligence and we know Farum Azula was ruled by the Greater Will via the ancient dragons who served it. Its really not that deep nor are they out of place at all, them being giant fingers made of flesh when alive and then drying up and turning into wood is perfectly thematically fitting in a game that revolves around magical trees, and a master manipulator Outer God who influences the Lands Between from afar using its vassals/puppets to control the world. Varre also tells us that when the Shattering took place the fingers got corrupted and their words can't be trusted, which is proven true when we learn we're actually on a mission from Marika who gave us grace not the Greater Will, and the Two Fingers go into stasis for hundreds of years to contact the Greater Will because they're confused why it wont let the Tarnished into the Erdtree: proving that it did indeed abandon the Lands Between like the opening narration says and didn't give the Tarnish grace or anything. So that would also explain their withered state.
My crackpot theory: the Fingers are emissaries/extensions/ghostly remnants of Placidusax, forced to serve the Greater Will now that Placidusax is defeated
Lmao, I think it is HIGHLY unlikely that the fingers belong to the giant skeletons. Unless all of the giants had tiny lawyer hands who could barely grasp two people at once....
My first conclusion about the two fingers is that their presence is so out of place that they must be representing an abstract concept. A 5 fingered hand is symbolic of intelligence, as stated in game, but we only know that meaning because it is stated directly. Like, how Christian iconography sometimes shows Christ with fingers contorted into a strange configuration - its original purpose was to spell out a word but without having that context a viewer just sees an awkward looking hand. Similar concept applies to iconography of other religions. The most satisfying explanation that I could arrive at is that the Greater Will is communicating that "something" is a binary. Option 1 or option 2. 2 fingers. That the 2 fingers are weaker now would therefore indicate that the Greater Will has lost certainty in the binary options. Whatever the two options are, the frenzied flame offers a 3rd option.
How I have always seen it, is as if the fingers themselves had been other tarnished, or humans/beings, before, and at some point they had received consultance from the Greater Will. I believe that they then slowly began to morph into this state of 'finger-like' appearance, due to their 'function' being shifted in their life to mainly receive and give consultation from the Greater Will. My main reason for this is that, in the room of the two fingers at the roundtable hold, behind the fingers is a big chair. Why would there ever be a big chair, if the finger(s) had always been a standing being? In combination with everything else which you hear and feel during my playthroughs, it kind of clicks for me. I do know that I only have this one chair of actual evidence. However, I still like to think that the fingers used to be actual beings similar to tarnished or empyrean or even numen, and that after attaining a significant presence in the lands between, they received guidance from the Greater Will (or other outer gods; just like the three fingers then would have had received their guidance from the god of frenzied flame). But not only guidance, but also a function. The function to relay messages from outer gods and to consult them.
With regards to two fingers, I'm actually surprised that no one outside of Russian youtube discusses the version of dorotabo: "They appears as one-eyed, three-fingered humanoid figures rising out of the mud at night. It is said that the five fingers of the human hand represent three vices and two virtues: anger, greed, ignorance, wisdom, and compassion."
I'm working on a giant megalithic video rn on a different channel that explains exactly what the Greater Will is, the nature of the Formless Mother, what the greater will possibly was before it became the entity it is today. Why red is primordial gold (the 3 different reasons). And of course, what the fingers are and why they're fingers in the first place. I can't wait to share what I've found. With all our eyes together, the path is clear.
You've got shrooms on the mind because you're trippin, bro! Just kidding. I think you've been onto something for a while with your mushroom idea. The dead guy at the base sure is a good explanation as to why they're so beat up and dead looking. Great video.
I always thought that Ranni's fingers were three, the frenzied fingers are three, the dead fingers atop the tower are two and the live fingers at the roundtable are two, making for a total of 10 fingers - five on each hand, with each hand having been split. I felt that the reference was Christian "the world rests in the hands of God". I thought that the fingers were literally a representation of the hands of God, which had been severed and appeared on the earth to 'support and guide the world', being split between purposes as needed. I think it makes sense that the true "body of God" could relay His messages, however, it is also true that the measure of separation from God determines "humaness" - the further the separation from God, the more human one becomes. so perhaps that measure of separation of the fingers became too great after the shattering, which caused God to abandon the world in a sense, allowing the hands of God to be corrupted and/or capable of some form of death due to human influence/God's abandonment, or perhaps the fingers were never holy to begin with (more likely). the moment the hands were separated from the body of God they began to drift from the path of holiness, i.e. develop their own apparent sense of free will, and become intwined with human interests, developing their own sense of righteousness, which may not have aligned with the Will of God. this could be a reason that Ranni wanted to be free of them. not only were they near omnipotent, but they had developed beyond that of an oracle of God, with their own agenda and will, separate from the Will of God. we can see that in their attempts to take revenge on Ranni and in the creatures that spawned across the lands (those weird finger creatures). Ranni wanted to kill God, essentially, and restore true order to the lands between, but in the process, she had to kill the corrupted former oracles of God and sacrifice the demigods. Ranni recognized that the world had been destroyed by "human nature" - if there is a "True God" in the lands between (questionable), then that True God chose human vassals and representatives, as well as oracles that could be corrupted by human nature, leading to a world run by humans that were treated as Gods. none of these God representatives ever lost their "humaness", yet they were treated as Gods. we see this in Marika's desire to eliminate competitors to the throne of God-hood and her fear of death. none of these God representatives were ever holy, or God-like, and this discrepancy caused the downfall. human nature will never rise to the stature of God-hood, and anything separated from God and thrust into the human world will also become corrupted by humaness, if it wasn't corrupted to begin with by nature. as a result, we are led to question the omnipotence of the True God, since it should be clear that humans can never become Gods, and the True God should have known this before the shattering began. this leads the viewer to believe that there is not a "True God" and that this Greater Will is only one of many competing God-like entities, possibly extra-terrestrial beings (like the astral being we fight at one point), who want to control the Earth and those within it for reasons unknown. the reason that these beings cannot reveal themselves is because they would be rejected immediately by humanity - look at the astral being we fight. it's repulsive. so human representatives are needed. but extra-terrestrial beings with higher powers are not Gods, in fact, they are little different from human beings, vying for power and influence. Marika eventually realized this fact, and destroyed the Eldin Ring in the hope of freeing humanity from the influence of the extra-terrestrial being currently in power, but failed. everything she does just before and after the shattering leads us to believe that she wanted to free humanity from the influence of the extra-terrestrial Greater Will currently in power, since she viewed the death of Godwin as a betrayal, and as proof that this being could not protect her from death itself, which demonstrated to Marika that this Greater Will was not God - only God can save us from death, again, a Christian idea. when Marika saw that death was inevitably a part of the world, and that the Greater Will could not save her from death, she revolted, having realized that the Greater Will was not God, since it did not have to power to truly stave off death, and grant eternal life, even to those selected as human Gods, Empyreans and Demigods. Marika realized that she was just being used as a tool in the power struggles of extra-terrestrial beings with higher powers, and her personality revolted immediately, while Radagon attempted to repair the Eldin Ring, knowing that their revolt would cause immense suffering. Radagon more than likely agreed with Marika about the Greater Will, but chose to attempt to preserve the order knowing that it would nearly destroy humanity to destroy the Eldin Ring. perhaps he was thinking of his former wife, his soldiers, and his children, while Marika had already decided to sacrifice everything to defy these extra-terrestrial beings in order to free humanity, since she probably felt that humans could not be saved from death even within the protection of the Eldin Ring, so preserving order seemed pointless to her. In short, I believe that the hands (the fingers) may have appeared in this form simply due to human convention - i.e. the hands of God provide guidance. they appeared in the form of human hands to seem familiar in some way. it is possible that they were initially two hands, like the form of the smaller fingers that we see crawling across the lands, but were separated by humans to serve different purposes. I believe that the fingers were both imperfect to begin with (not representative of any "True God", but rather the oracle of an a "False God") and that they were further corrupted by their separation from the Greater Will, having become accustomed to human ways, due to the fact that the fingers appear to have some level of apparent free will. even the hands of God cannot escape death - that alone should be proof that Marika made the right choice. the "outer wills" are not Gods at all.
The more I consider it the more I am certain that what the Fingers do with Empyreans is put a Golden Shade in their body, replacing them and ascending to godhood. Ranni slays her Empyrean body to avoid this, resulting in Melina, a Golden Shade without a body. Godfrey's Golden Shade was removed when he became Tarnished and remained in the Capitol, and before they were Tarnished they themselves once had golden eyes. Now the discarded golden shades of the Tarnished guard the Demigod mausoleums. I think in this same way that you are right, The Greater Will killed the Giants and their two fingers were used as the first hosts of the golden shades and chose the Empyreans. The three fingers was discarded as impure, but that is where chaos thrives, as a blasphemy and mockery of the two fingers.
The World in Elden ring is controlled though our Fingers, choosing Which Path to walk, who to kill and who to spare by the press of you finger on a Button. The Two finger + Three Fingers equals a full hand, and we the player can only interact with this World with the use of our hands and fingers.. Our character never talks and neither the fingers. They try to intrepid the fingers through their gesturing. I know its probaly not That simple, but felt a need to share it.
When I heard words like "inner-member" , the "fingers" and overall the "two finger" I was expecting a cultist approach of it where two of the highest members were the ones having some sort of connection or ritual with something out worldly. And the whole "great will" was more a doctrine....turns out it was an actual two finger hand and a god unnironacally called "great will"?
At this point, Im starting to think Fromsoft doesn't write lore, but rather they just give the community the big pieces of the story, and then lets us "figure out" the mystery of their games. There is no way that there's a storyboard somewhere laying out the truths all of the lore we've been theorizing. I refuse to believe FromSoft possesses a lucid explanation of the history of the lands between. God. I love this game
Ok here we go. The fingers are all hands that were taken from giants in the war of the giants. Why is this the case? If you look at the Carian Manor you will find a ton of giant blue hands. Magic, specifically Carian magic was used to turn disembodied hands into crazy spider monsters. Why do this though? My thoughts are that if you follow the theme of hands in the game (starting with the beast men and the beast man's blade) you will see that the development of the "human" hand was a sign of high intelligence. Garranq is a fallen version of Maliketh. Why is this important. Maliketh is Malik (King in arabic) and Eth which is a combination of the two hebrew letters that amount to "alpha and omega". Maliketh was "the king of the beginning and the end" so the guy that could END anyone. Garranq sounds like the spanish word "garra" which is paw or claw. He lost his status as a king. A being with hands and became a "beast clergyman" who's name means claw. He demoted himself to the most fallen state. Tying that back in with the hands of the giants. If you want to humiliate your enemies you take their hands as trophies to show that they will never be able create anything again since hands are the means of all creation and rebellion. The biggest hands of the biggest giants were considered the most powerful and capable and were repurposed as a means to commune with a greater will. The greater will is a mystery but to me it means the "will to perpetuate life" or the "will that pushes us to create." That is a much deeper rabbit hole. The giants in my opinion created the land itself. They created the towers, the automatons and the crucible. My proof for tis is that the spider hands come in all sizes: from troll to titan. The crawling ones look like they are bound together like they would be if a person had their hands bound behind their back. Also, every giant on the mountain top of giants is missing their hands. It's not mushrooms.
Miyazaki wanted to make sentient feet, but his collegues didn't let him, so he chose the next best thing.
had to meet the quota
So were lucky that his choise went further up the body and didn't stop between the legs.
My dad works for fromsoft, I can confirm
the two fingers sounds more ominous than the two toes
What about the magic toenail?
The greater will has 2 fingers, the frenzied flame has 3 (one a thumb). I always thought that they might have been, at one point, one complete hand and I wondered if the DLC, if it takes place in the past, might have the tarnished interact with it.
Honestly there's one good reason why I disagree with the "fingers are the Erdtree's mycelial network" thing: when he receives a two-finger prayerbook, Corhyn states it does *not* bare any ancestry within the Golden Order, which is based around the Erdtree. Which could just be because it's a generic response for everything but a certain book, but still.
In liturgical description on Jesus holding his hand with "two fingers pointing up" as symbolising" as above so below" is the meaning of blessing by priests. So maybe in Elden ring is the embodiment of the blessing or the symbolism of communication with a God through these fingers as "an antenna/amplification". I also believe like, our religious priests act autonomously, by corruption, influence, and subjectivity so they, the fingers, can be manipulated/manipulate that's why there are different types of fingers . I believe they meant to mirror some higher priests(patriarch)
Off-topic I want to know why the star shards and the rune arcs are used the same?
What if the Fingurs were CREATED (like the one reborn in BB) and after the failure of the one made of wood that died, they realised they needed flesh to make it living. And Ranni was against this creation.
The fingers are too small to be from the giant skulls.
I like the mushroom theory most it makes a lot of sense it fits the themes
I noticed a lot of Elden Ring is similar to stories of "the Bible" and arch angels
Wait. What about the Three Fingers? Are they the other three of the FIVE for a complete HAND? lol
I really wish this game had more content.
Hopefully dlc will shed some light
I am going to be honest with you, in my own humble opinion without being sentimental of course, without offending anyone who thinks differently from my point of view, but also by looking into this matter from a distinctive perspective, I would like to say I have nothing to say.
It feels like the conflict between the outer gods is just property dispute over a magical terrarium
Yeah, the Outer Gods are probably super bored. There probably isn't much to do out in the lifeless depths of space.
"I'm so bored...I'm gonna go mess with those primitive humanoids again, that always cheers me up!"
Under that logic, maybe the Greater Will just got tired of the game and went off to do something else. That would explain why the Two Fingers couldn't get in touch with the Greater Will, it's not interested in playing with this tamagotchi any more!
@@brushdogart I read the quotes in Dagoth Ur's voice.
Imagine they moved out of Yharnam after most of them were murdered by a crazy man with a big razor and now this XD
I genuinely believe when Martin wrote the lore for the fingers, he didn't think Fromsoft would take him literally. I believe they were written as humanoids, and the weird ass giant hands we got are because Fromsoft is very dreamlike and less grounded than Martin is
Yes I totally thought the same thing
I disagree. The fingers being fingers is important in what the greater will actually is. Making a vid rn on another channel, won't say the name of it though because advertising in other people's comments section is cringe.
I loved that it turned out this way, at least from my perspective as a player. When I heard about "The fingers" I too thought it was either a symbolic or metaphorical name, not a literal finger monster haha. When I saw it for the first time I was taken aback. I fell in love with the concept of their portrayal immediately, it felt like Elden Ring was combining Dark Souls and Bloodborne concepts in the same story.
@@pinip_f_werty1382 Sure, that's how it is NOW but most of the lore was written by Fromsoft, not Martin. Martin wrote the broad strokes of the world, including the two fingers. I'm not saying they shouldn't be literal fingers, I'm saying I doubt that was what was intended by Martin
The game absolutely sets you up to assume that the two fingers are two normal people whose titles are "the two fingers." Presumably they would be the leaders of the finger maidens, finding out that they're LITERAL fingers is classic fromsoft silliness.
Interesting points about the fingers written "language". Anyone notice that the filigree circlet around Rannis hat appears to resemble the same finger text on the roundtable weapons
Please make a Reddit post
Yeah, it didn’t seem to me to be an exact copy, but it definitely had a similar appearance
It's interesting that most great runes take the shape of a ring, and if runes are similar to souls, then the fingers look like they could wear these great runes/souls like rings. There is an expression to have someone wrapped around your finger, which means more or less to have control over them. LotR vibes =)
Look into The Prima Materia and The Ripley Scroll
Excellent observations
He even stole his R.R.
And The Lands Between, being a land where people literally don't die inhabited by gods and immortal beings, seperated from the more "mundane" lands by mist and sea is basically Aman and Valinor from Lotr.
Of course both Lotr and Elden Ring are based on Germanic and Norse myth so there's that too.
Now all we need are Numenoreans going off with an completely insane plan to build a huge fleet and literally invade the land of the gods. Maybe they could be motivated by the flame or other blasphemous imagery.
@@sethleoric2598 It's hard to tell Marika's motivation besides being immortal and if we take Gideon's words for face value, to have people or the tarnished struggle or eternity. But I agree with everything you say, I'm convinced she came on ships and conquested the lands like a holy crusade or something, but when I start question if they are spaceships is when I tell myself "why dont I just wait for the dlc" lmfao!. But yea I feel like fromsoft took all the great inspriations they've picked up over the years and grafted it all into an amazing game, I would go as far to say that I think someones girlfriend in fromsoft got someone to watch sailor moon, between the liurnian moon people and the cocoon of evil and rebirth.
I agree that the fingers are fungi, like the dead man's fingers. This is another Lovecraftian thing, in the mythos there are eldritch space fungi, so having a space fungi as a herald to an Outer God makes sense. Besides, there is a lot of fungi imagery through Miyazaki's games, and Elden Ring is very much Medieval Bloodborne.
If Elden ring is "medieval" bloodborne....then what "is" bloodborne. If not medieval?
@@benjaminc0717it’s early modern to be sure. Their firearms are decently advanced, the architecture is more reminiscent of an early modern style rather than a medieval one(gothic revival, specific to the early 19th century). Yeah a bit crazy to think that it was happening during the same time as the industrial revolution. But I guess Yharnam is a pretty secluded place, so the industrialisation process hasn’t caught up yet. Either that or Miyazaki was actually planning a second DLC where we explore a bunch of coal mines and workhouses
@@benjaminc0717of course many places are older, like Cainhurst, and don’t get me started on the chalice dungeons. But I think large parts of Yharnam proper at least were rebuilt by the healing church.
Something that sticks with me is that the hand enemies are weak to fire. There could be a connection to that and the fact that the dead fingers look like wood. If they are almost like fleshy wood or mushrooms, connected to the roots of the Erdtree, wouldn't it also have an extra layer of significance when we burn the Erdtree? And if so, I wonder if there's something deeper to those hand enemies and the finger hammer we can get. Maybe they're related in some way?
I always took the hand enemies as a weak imitation made to try to replicate the grace giving fingers, kinda like the mimic tear was a weak imitation of an elden lord.
Some mushrooms are really really good fire starters. Some you can put an ember on and that ember will stay for hours
Hands are weak to fire IRL
@@DGiovanni I mean near everything is, but in the context of the game and the theory, it kinda makes sense. Certain enemies react more to certain elemental damage than others, I'm sure you know. But if we're going with that logic, shouldn't everything react similarly to fire in that case? Not trying to bash you at all, just want to give some thoughts on that logic if it were applied properly
@@BubblenutMcMuffin If everything is weak to fire IRL then why does it matter that mushrooms are also weak to fire? By that logic the hands being weak to fire means they could be anything.
I really like your "Two Fingers are mushrooms"-theory and i noticed something while watching your video that adds up with that theory.
On top of the divine towers where the Fingers are found, there is a patch of earth in which they are placed in.
The whole tower is made of solid stone but it seems that the Fingers need to be connected to the earth to be able to exist, just like mushrooms and that is why they specifically added this patch of earth at the top.
Are the two fingers in round table hold planted in dirt?
@@megabuilder15 Not visibly, no. But there could be earth right beneath them, but blocked from our sight.
@@megabuilder15 Yee, not visibly, but there is a theory that says that the round table is not a physical place, but that it is inside the tree and is part of it. So meaby thats why there is one there
@@victoracuna9504 I mean that's barely a theory but pretty much confirmed. We know the roundtable is disconnected from the physical world, and we know it burns when the tree burns. There's not really any other options than it being a construction connected to the erdtree
One thing that I don't see mentioned very often. Just because the games tells us that the Fingers are connected to the Greater Will and yadah yadah, doesn't mean it's true. It can be the interpretation that the people of the Lands Between make of them, etc. Just because we have a piece of Lore given by the game doesn't mean that's the actual truth. Remember that in DS1 we are told that Artorias defeated the Abbyss and then on the DLC we see that he actually sucumbed to it, and it's our character the one that does it. So, just because the game says there is a Greater Will, adn that the fingers are connected to it and all that, maybe it's just the explanation the people in the Lands Between give to this beings that are beyond their comprehension.
Very unlikely. The Finger Maidens get this information directly from the Fingers. Either the Fingers would have to be lying to them (very unlikely) or the Finger Maidens would have to be lying to us (even more unlikely).
@@avalokitesvara4092LOL The entire point of the Dark Souls series in general was about the distortion and manipulation of history by both God and Man and inbetween, and you think its unlikely that an Eldritch abomination would lie? Jesus fucking christ.
@@johnsmith-xw7hv What you call "manipulation of history" in Dark Souls is simply different opinions on the desirable fate of the world and yes it is very unlikely that the Fingers are lying: we know that the Outer Gods exist. We know that there are Fingers who are undoubtedly related to Outer Gods (Three Fingers). It is therefore very likely that the Two Fingers are the same. When the Erdtree rejects us after the fight against Morgott the Fingers are perplexed and go to commune with the Greater Will. If the Fingers are lying about the Greater Will, what is the meaning of this?
You have to remember the lore exist only in the menu, and is said directly at the player not as info that’s exist as part of the world. Funny because this is the most spoon fed way of telling a story in the industry, no thinking required just mindlessly believing what your told.
True. Or it could be the greater will is kinda... Not a good guy. So his agents are also kinda huge jerks
Hopefully we get more info in the DLC (we wont)
Probably ngl 😂😂 i feel like some dlc make you question more rather than getting an answer
more questions, thats for certain
@@ManEaterBrainBug it is just confirmed
if you look back in every dlc they add
they just ignore what they did and add new things
which throw every theory in the garbage
Holy shit YT autoplay is on point today, brought me here less than 30 seconds after it went live lol.
For those curious. The finger crawlers and the Finger Club are pieces of Rhycard severed, regrown and animated by some magic. Im pretty sure they are given the life energy he absorbed from his consumed victims
Naa man I think those r giant hands rykerd gave the ol choppy chop to then reanimated.
Thats why they are in the carian manor, because rikard sent them to help ranni a bit
then what about that humongous one in the snow mountain of giants
@@inmortuae4512 how the fuck do you spell his name?... Goddamn welsh middle english bullshit 🤬
@@Wildwolfster97 I always thought that was a reanimated hand of one of the fire giants, but the theory doesn't really hold up
There are mushrooms growing near and around Ranni's two fingers. Maybe they were always growing around them or maybe they only started growing when they died? None of the other fingers are in an environment with the conditions for some kinds of mushrooms to grow. The 3 fingers and the living 2 fingers are enclosed in structures. Cut off from having any "roots" connecting to the Erdtree, like Ranni's fingers. All the petrified wood looking dead fingers we find have seemingly been "uprooted" and placed on top of a tower with no cover of darkness or connecting soil. It's like they were placed there to die. Where at least the living 2 fingers and the 3 fingers are in dark or dim areas which can be suitable for healthy mushrooms. But still cutoff from any soil/roots connection.
So Ranni's 2 fingers being the most powerful, being the ones with the most activity, may be because they are actually connected to soil, in a dim area, and can reach the ErdTree and potentially have a stronger connection with the Greater Will. So they are the most powerful. But then why are the living 2 fingers put inside the roundtable hold? The living 2 fingers are the ones that seem the least powerful and make questionable actions (or inactions) that don't necessarily seem to line up with the Greater Will. Maybe they just have a weaker connection to the ErdTree?
Bit tinfoil hatty but I think the finger readers placed them there, powerless, as a show. The finger readers can say whatever they want to lead or mislead the Tarnished, and the living two fingers are powerless to do anything about it. When we take on the frenzied flame, other NPC's don't seem to be aware, other than Melina. The living 2 fingers inability to do anything would make it make sense why they don't say anything about us taking on the Frenzied Flame. Surely the 2 fingers can tell that we have, but they can't speak, they are a powerless prisoner. The finger readers are just oblivious to it. I think the finger readers are servants of the Golden Order and NOT the greater will. Maybe they once were, but no longer. So they've imprisoned the 2 living fingers. All the other fingers have been killed by being placed on top of towers, possibly by their personal demi-gods even. But the finger readers don't know where Ranni's 2 fingers are. If they were actually in communication with the Greater Will like Ranni's fingers, they would know where they are, and likely would have uprooted them as well and placed them on a tower to die so they would not interfere.
Fingers are how players interact with the game world.
I love that so many video creators are tackling lore topics! Great video
Honestly, I thought the two fingers and three fingers perfectly fit into the game. I have no idea what you mean by "shouldn't exist". Heck, this video made them fit even more into the lore, not less. Still entertaining, and love the Mushroom Theory
Also, the three finger's location is explained. It was summoned there by the great caravan after they were all buried alive. Shabriri told a lie about them worshipping the three fingers, and the golden order sealed them away down there in an act of utter cruelty. Such a fate was so horrible that the great caravan would wish for death. for freedom from their suffering. "A frenzied flame to melt away the curses, suffering and despair, and the order entire."
So, the three fingers are there because that is where they were summoned. It wasn't corrupted, it always was a servant of the frenzied flame. And I don't get the whole "pay no mind to inheiritng the flame" argument, as the fingers might not be aware the tarnished has inheirited the flame in the first place. Just like they might not realise you're going to burn the Erdtree, even if it's against the Greater Will's wishes.
(Edited for clarity and expanding on initial ideas)
Personally, it feels like the Fingers were an idea that didn't pan out for the story but the devs couldn't just remove them. So, they made them as mysterious as they could without having to elaborate further. They probably had a greater, more explained role back when the Crucible was going to be a big part of the story.
I love your content
not as much as the lord and powerful teacher, Christ Apollo loves you :)
I love it more!
I love it most !
@@PuffnStuff117 i will indirectly harm you through telepathical waves according to youtube guidelines, i cannot harm you personally but enough of that how was your day
The two fingers act as antennas, communing with the greater will and even radiating its influence. It’s why the nox and Iji made literal tinfoil hats to “ward off the influence of the greater will”
When the two fingers says it needs to commune with the greater will, it stands stick straight and goes dormant. The finger reader says this could take a thousand years. Which makes since as I’m sure the greater will is far far away in space.
honestly, the mushroom theory is the best so far
Kid named finger
Honestly? Maybe it's as simple as the game giving us the forks (similar method of flipping people the middle finger, but in Australia with sexual connotations). Those fingers are conniving bastards, regardless of how many fingers they have.
Good vid, but your mushroom biology is off.
Trees rely on mycorrhizal fungi, or fungi whose hyphae intertwine the tree's roots. In doing so, the tree is able to expand it's ability to capture water by leeching through fungal hyphae, while the fungus is able to attain starches from the tree roots. This relationship is classified as symbiotic since both organisms benefit and neither is harmed.
There is no such thing as funguses communicating the state of the "biosphere" (that means the sum of all ecosystems btw) :)
Two and Three Fingers are one of the most mysterous character to me. While I'm not buying the five fingers makes a hand theory, I believe that they (2 and 3) used to work together or probably were from the some origin. Greater Will and Frenzied Flame are very like twins to me, but they are mirrored.
Five Finger theory makes perfect sense when you consider:
1. You find Fingerslaying Blade in Nokron, that is fetish made out of a previous dead god. (Similar to Radagon´s sacred relic sword). This blade is named Fingerslaying sword, so it has hurt fingers in the past. Description even states in past tense that it is capable of harming them. So, it has harmed fingers in the past. Also wounds of this weapon never heal. So if one, say, cut Five Fingers in two, it would stay separated permanently.
2. Beasts used to regard Five Fingers as a sign of civilization that gave them intelligence (beast incantations and hidden Cinquedea ritual sword, which means Five Fingers. This ritual sword even has picture of five fingers)
3. Ancient Dragons have Five Fingers in their hands, mortal, weaker dragons three.
4. Placidusax actually has FIVE heads. Three are cut off.
5. Elden Ring used to be lot more complete in the past.
6. Lords Divine Fortification incantations says the world was broken long time ago.
7. Greater Will sent Elden Beast in response to ancient "crime" by Nox. What is this ancient crime, then?
8. Nox used to be normal Numen, but something happened that caused them to hide underground, as if they were afraid to dwell under open sky.
9. Dragons and beastmen worshipped Greater Will and Greater Will granted beasts intelligence.
So it is really easy to decipher that Farum Azula civilization worshiped Greater Will (gold, lightning, Elden Ring predecessor with gold) and had a god. Numen, who were rebellious then killed this god. They then mutilated his/her body into weapon to cut the fingers into Two and Three in attempt to sever the messages running between Lands Between and Greater Will. They built their cities deep underground to remain hidden and undetected by Greater Will and even wore mirror helms to that end.
However, Greater Will somehow realized what had happened, and after many moons, sent one of its direct vassals to bring justice to the perpetrators. Perhaps Five Fingers managed to send one final message before being split in two?
Nox city of Leyndell underground was destroyed, and its name was removed from annals of history. Numen who were not able to escape to other eternal cities were transformed into Ant-Queens as punishment. Elden Beast is capable of shaping living things, as Radagon´s fate and Elden RIng´s epither (shaper of life) refers to.
However, there were handful of faithful Numen among traitors. Marika was then a mere girl, innocent to crimes of her people, and she was appointed as the next god, because she was only suitable host.
Three Fingers that is stuck in "Error, error, reboot" mode is hidden deep underground.
Nox hate Marika with a passion because she is an apostate to them.
We got the fingers
Hopefully we get the but whole in the Dlc
Personally, I can't help but think the two fingers standing up look like chromosomes.
Enia and the finger reader crones don't look particularily healthy either, nor do the general inhabitants and foot soldiers in the lands between. It's a side effect from being alive for thousends of years; same probably also goes for the fingers. Either that or they have untreated diabetes.
The reason hes called two fingers is cus he only presses l2 and the roll button, thats all he ever knew
Not sure if you noticed this, but Ranni's witch hat actually has the two fingers' alphabet wrapped around it
i assume the two fingers appeared during the primordial age of the crucible since they share a lot of physical similarities with creatures from that time. The hair on the misbegotten, Placidusax, and the fingers all look the same
Your theory makes perfect sense if we assume the mycelium Network analog is more spiritual than physical.
If Hyetta and the three fingers are to be believed, the greater will and the god of frenzy were once one, and if you add two and three together, you get five.
It’s possible these fingers represent the divided hand of the one.
Sick theory about the Dead Man's Fingers mushrooms! And also drawing the analogy of hermetic alchemy, really cool stuff. Didn't even think of it that way yet. Elden Ring is truly a piece of art.
Also thanks for the awesome vid, looking forward to more!
They serve each empyrean, which have all given birth, all female, except for Miquella, but it can be argued his possible other half, St. Trina, his Radagon, was to birth his new form in the Haligtree, as seen above Malenia's arena. Mohg probably ripped Miquella's cocoon from the Haligtree/Trina womb. But anyways, the Two Fingers serve these females specifically to guide them on the way to create new lineages and demigods. They are most strangely seen on the pendant, I don't remember which one, as having legs, making them an X shape. They do in fact look like X Chromosomes. Maybe that has something to do with all those they guide being female and more specifically those who give birth, split rebus-like beings included. Don't know why they are just the two fingers then in the game then if they supposedly had a more x-shape form.
that was a cut content
Miquella is 100% a male
the people misunderstood his beauty as feminine
he is after all inspired by Griffith which has the these adjectives
@@kaiserdetectivegolden2735 Yes, Miquella is 100% male... In the waking world. But, even if it is cut content, I don't care, there's still enough in the game to imply so. St. Trina is probably the other form he takes in his dream. It can be a different person completely, but that connection is still there since St. Trina would most likely be a creation of Miquella in some way or another. Again, mirroring the whole vigin birth concept that Marika/Radagon went through. One being, an Empyrean, giving birth to a new tree of demigods. Also, not everything is a Berserk reference, Griffith isn't the eternal insparation for every man that is effeminate looking. Although, I will agree that the descriptions that describe him being able to sway those with his beauty to be similar to Griffith.
pretty sure that's a stylized shadow and not legs on the finger pendant.
The IRL player is the alchemist/outer god! 😲🫢
A really interesting take. Some of the comments I would make seem to already be covered so I would like to make a Lore Tangent.
I've been looking at the Elden Ring image in Malekith's arena lately. I know many folks have leaned on this being an image of an Elden Ring with more runes in it and I use to share this belief. But I have sense changed my mind and possibly realized what the relief is showing. It isn't showing an Elden Ring with a bunch of extra rune parts. It is an symbol that is meant to be considerd in the same way as the Erdtree Seal or more closely to the iconography for Crucible spells or when you use Morgott's Shackle. The Elden Ring is at the center but it is inside something just like in those symbols/icons. The Helix that can be spotted at the bottom is not a missing part of the ring, the helix represents the wind of the "True Storm", swirling into a tornado that reaches up into the sky. The things we have considered roots, are Lightning. Before you gut react, remember Placidusax was once Elden Lord and the Dragon's faith magic is lightning. Lightning that was deemed to not contradict the Golden Order, this is why.
The tornado at the heart of Farum Azula is all that is left of the True Storm. When we rewind time to face Placidusax not only does Farum rebuild itself but the storm grows in size. In Placidusax's arena, when he is alive storms rage in the distance, we are in the past. Because we can't see anything else around us but open sky this likely means at this point in time Farum Azula was higher than even the Mountain Top of the Giants, at least Placidusax's "throne" was. So that distant lightning could be reaching as far as Limgrave far all we can tell. Another interesting thing to point out is that Placidusax was Elden Lord in his time, and like the other 2 we know of he had a "God" (Marika equivalent). If the relationship between Lord and God are consistent that means his God dwelled with him in Farum Azula, in the SKY. This means the Elden Ring would have been hosted in the Sky. So the statues depicted under the relief of the Elden Ring in Malekith's arena is depicting the Elden Ring reigning on high above men (the girl statue) and beasts (wolves).
The most interesting implication of this also requires us to realize the game is called Elden Ring, and not Erdtree. So in all likelihood, if there is an Elden Ring 2, with a Darksouls style time jump, we can probably expect something other than a Giant Tree. It will be in whatever thing the people of that time deem sacred, could be a sacred pond for example.
Kind of interesting wording. They call the Two fingers master Orators (not masters of speech, or understanding, but Orators which would imply masters of spoken words) when in the next breath specifying that they cannot speak. Almost like they are saying that they are implying that the Two fingers talk, but don't actually say anything.
Oration from English to Latin can come from two different roots according to etymology; first from latin as or, oris, meaning indeed mouth.
Or from Proto-Indo-European *h₂er- (“to pronounce a ritual”) that in other languages has evolved to mean worshipping, revering or an act consulting oracle.
It is clever wordplay implying that Fingers are masters of rituals, prayers and matters of worship, which is fitting, because they are essentially divine oracles.
The thing is we don’t see any of the two fingers besides the round table hold until AFTER we’ve killed their rune bearers, they could be completely healthy beforehand and die when we kill their corresponding character. Ranni’s fingers being active supports this. Additionally, considering the location of the original round table hold and the three fingers I believe that they’re both parts of the roots of the Erdtree. I think frenzy is an aspect of the golden order, it is a part of the erdtree and as inseparable from it as the two fingers (hence why Melina gets so mad she’s trying to defy the golden order and the three fingers are a part of it). Perhaps the three fingers are roots of the tree that existed before and exist beside the new erdtree and the new two fingers. It’s like yin and Yang, order and chaos exist upon one hand and within the erdtree
Something I've always found noteworthy about our Two Fingers is their head confessor's names is Crepus, which is a shortening of crepuscular, of or relating to dawn/dusk. This to me suggests the Fingers in the roundtable may have been the ones who chose the Gloam-Eyed Queen as an Empyrean, as they're both associated with the transitional state between day and night. Ranni's Two Fingers are more explicitly linked to night time, and I assume Marika was also once chosen as an Empyrean by a hypothetical pair of Fingers representing "the day". I think just like day turning into night and back again, the Two Fingers' collective job is to shape and influence the transition from one age into another, by picking Empyreans to duke it out and also guiding the tarnished to end any kind of stalemate. Doesn't explain why they're fingers, though.
I think the fingers in the roundtable are Marikas. She placed hewg in there to aid the tarnished defeting radagon and the figners there guide the tarnished basicaly on the same path.
Few things:
1. Does Rani's hat have the cypher around it? The metal detail looks oddly like the coded sword or the two circular rings symbolizing the two fingers sigil
2. When Melina burns the erd tree the same music that begins during the elden beast boss fight begins playing. Could there be a connection between the two?
The giants who were conquered in the war against the giants are found in the mountaintops. There are indeed colossal remains of some sort, but I'm not convinced they're giants. I think the fingers as a metaphor is a stronger theory. And the fingers as fungus theory is a good one too.
The mushroom theory makes a ton of sense given how much of a motif it is. Something so obvious I feel like people kind of overlook it is that the game is about the Elden Ring and that fingers are what wear rings, so it makes perfect sense for fingers to be a huge part of this game.
Did anyone notice the metallic looking band around Ranni’s hat? It looks sort of like the finger’s language/code mentioned earlier in the video.
The two fingers in the roundtable hold do have a death animation
Dude you’re srsly running out of ideas for new videos lol
Orators in ancient Rome would use the sign of two raised fingers to signify they were speaking and that others should pay attention and be silent. It eventually became a used as a Christian sign for a benediction, or blessing. Many depictions of Christ picture him using the sign.
The Prana Mudra is a yogic hand gesture that involves the upraised index and middle finger, and is used to channel life force.
Elden Ring has tons of religious symbolism. I think the connections to oration and divinity fit really well with what the Two Fingers in Elden Ring are meant to be.
Nice. That rises the question if there is also a connection like that to three finger? That could give some nice insight.
@@leohirtsche8341 The benediction sign sometimes includes the thumb, with the three fingers signifying the holy trinity. I don't know how that would relate to the Three Fingers of the Frenzied Flame, though, so I didn't mention it.
I have a feeling there's probably a connection to the Godhand from Berserk (because there are ALWAYS connections to Berserk in Miyazaki's games), but that's another can of worms entirely. It would probably take a whole video to explain, but I'm not a RUclipsr lol
The crawling hands resemble Rykard's hands, and two places they're concentrated are around his current residence (Volcano Manor) and in the place that was likely his childhood home (Caria Manor). They're also out in full force on the Mountaintop of Giants, and given how Rykard burned down a minor Erdtree in the past, he might be seeking the forge to burn the main Erdtree.
Considering the lineage and every connection involved, I'd put money on the fingers being from giant's hands. I'm genuinely hoping there will be Fell God content or some context from the war against the previous God.
Good on Zio for mentioning the unnecessary amount of connecting you have to do outside of but including the games given lore.
It's an interesting theory but it seems to ignore some other placements in the game such as the leyndell sewers outside of Dung Eaters cell and the ambush they have in Altus around a group of St Trina flowers. They could be outside of dung eaters cell because they need to keep the mad wild card in check but the random placement of hands at the st trina flowers is unexplained, perhaps a one off thing but still curious.
@@IncensedAgitator not necessarily considering the ruling order would be in charge of finger distribution 💀 I hate that statement
@@IncensedAgitator rykard served as a judge for the golden order for a time if im not mistaken. with that in mind i don’t think there’s any dissonance with the hands being in lyndell sewers.
A small thing I haven't heard mentioned is that Ranni's two fingers appear to be burrowing underground, when you find it's corpse you can observe the joints in the fingers are facing outwards, and are in a clasped position as if scraping at the wall. What was it digging down to? I guess we'll never know.
Considering Ranni coming after them with the finger slayer blade that facing away could be "running" away. They definitly seem to be in agony from the slaying given thre trembling position.
I like the idea that it was given to ranni up there in the building and it wants to leave. But it cant go outside cause of the freaking dragon and wanted to dig it's way out.
Tarnished archeologist is the one who propagated the mycelium theory, and I feel thhey deserve an acknowledgement.
Actually I think you broadly fail to reference anyone who did the work that you base your videos on. Maybe, mention them in the video description since nowerdays that the details of the video and not a description at all
I think you’re mistaken. I came up with the mushroom theory, haven’t heard anyone else mention it ever. Even if they did have something similar, I did all of the research on my own
I always assumed the Two Fingers atop each divine tower were there for each Demigod/Shardbearer to visit and commune with the Greater Will...and they've since died and dried up after The Shattering.
I think Zio is looking for explanation where there is none. Or rather, there is none other than "GRRM created the mythology of this game, but Miyazaki probably created the fingers. The lore GRRM created is rich and deep and intertwined, though bleak and somewhat hard to fathom without all the information. The addition of Miyazaki is as weird and out of place as ALL of his random stuff."
You could take the two fingers out of the game and they wouldn’t be missed. Probably one of the most unnecessary “main story NPC’s” in any of the souls games. Maybe the DLC will shed light
I mean... Lol anything with a "they don't make sense" title. Do they have to make sense? Shoot. They could be alien space dick gods and from software could put hella good lore behind them.
@Ziostorm
"The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it." ― Omar Khayyám
"[The fingers] are manipulators....hand-picking..." are those puns? Cuz they're fingers
the "Two Fingers" represent players' hands, and their "language of light" is binary (low/high voltage electrical signals) that is "translated" by Finger Readers (code compilers). I'm probably reaching with the language of light/compiler stuff but I def think the Two Fingers are supposed to be a parallel to our thumbs manipulating our character via the controller.
I think the idea was to guide players to the realization that their role as controller-holder kind of makes us another Outer God influencing the Lands Between indirectly. the blog With A Terrible Fate did a super interesting essay describing the idea in a lot more detail (which is what originally led me to see the Two Fingers this way) called "How Elden Ring Turns Its Player into an Outer God"
Ok, your "threes" numerology being a bad thing got me thinking:
3 Marika X Godfrey kids: Morgott, Mogh, Godwyn
3 Radagon X Rennala kids: Rykard, Ranni, Radahn
3 Marika X Radagon kids: Miquella, Malenia, and Melina
My rationales for Melina being an empyrian child: "born at the foot of the erdtree", substantial evidence that she is the gloam eyed queen, and the three types of butterflies.
3 times there were 3 offspring from Marika, which could be what the 2 (perfection number) omen children were omens of.
I know there are other explanations for why omens are the way they are and that there were other demigods slain in the night of the black knives, however, I still think it lines up pretty nicely.
Kid named Two Fingers:
Two fingers and three fingers make a whole hand! And the Three Fingers' "dialogue" suggests to me that in the times of the Crucible, the Two and Three Fingers were joined. Or rather, there was an original Five Fingers species or individual. Also, there's an association between Beastmen/"the beasts who first gained intelligence" and five-fingered hands. I conjecture that the Beastmen are the ancestors of humanity, and at the end of "prehistoric times" the flame of the Crucible was split into the Flame of Frenzy (chaos) and a flame of order (the Golden Order?) along with their representatives, the first Two and Three Fingers. The 3F can grab, so they probably represent the thumb, index, and middle fingers; they evoke the image of a claw, grasping and clutching, primordial and bestial. Then the 2F would have the be the ring and pinky fingers; they represent dexterity, stability, daresay refinement. So I think in this early era, beasthood and humanity became distinct, and before even the Greater Will showed up on the scene, the Two Fingers provided guidance to early man in matters of faith and possibly prejudice.
I don´t think Two Fingers are out of place at all. If they are mushrooms, they make perfect sense in context of the game.
Greater Will uses language of light to communicate. (These ciphers seem to be inspired by sanskrit Devanāgarī script "language from the heavens", or Tolkien´s Tengwar script)
Trees rely on light to live and therefore understand language of light perfectly, but trees are not exactly able to communicate with animals and human beings. However, they regularly communicate with mushrooms. It would make sense in that context that trees are so revered even before Erdtree.
Mushrooms are connected with tree roots and thus understand language of light through their correspondence with the trees. Mushrooms are also much more animate than plants, sprouting quickly and even moving around (slime molds) and therefore can wriggle and wiggle in a way that human ascetics can try to decipher what they mean.
Once scholars understand that these giant mushrooms actually try to convey something meaningful through their movement, religion is formed. Finger readers become first priests of the budding religion and Fingers divine messengers of sorts.
Divine Towers also are of the same architecture as forge of the Giants, so I think Divine Towers and Finger religion predate Erdtree itself by far.
So these demonstrates that words of the Greater Will come through many interpreters and, no doubt, are subject to many misreadings down the chain.
Greater Will > Trees > Fingers > Finger Readers > Religious community.
This is also why Erdtree is so important for the religion, it is massive holy tree that no doubt would be able to work as a direct link with Greater Will much better than any ordinary tree. Remember how Elden Beast´s arena has many Erdtrees reaching into it? Erdtree links metaphysical to physical.
However, I imagine when rebellious Numen, later known as Nox, cut Five Fingers into Two and Three, the message was splintered. It would make sense Two Fingers only get scrambled messages if at all. Two Fingers try to maintain the order despite shortcomings, while Three Fingers receive Error, Error, Reboot, messages. I would not even be surpised, if Two Fingers have been winging it somewhat in later years.
It would also make Greater Will even more mysterious entity. Only action we know that was by its direct intervention, was to retaliate against the Nox when they killed previous god, made his/her body into Fingerslaying blade, and split the Five Fingers in two.
Essentially, Greater Will sends middle-manager (Elden Beast) to personally take care of the problem that locals can´t handle.
I would not be surprised if the ciphers in incantations and weapons actually are translatable. After all, titanite slabs essentially told the full story of the game in Dark Souls 1. Perhaps they are inverted Devanagari script, or Tengw. Alchemical/occult treatises put much emphasis on secret languages that only the adept would be able to read.
Ï hope someone can uncover what those ciphers mean!
THE FINGERS SHUDDER WITH "EXUBERANCE"!!! I LOVE 😘 THAT LINE. HOW FINGER CAN BE THAT CUTE WITH ME
The mycelium network idea makes sense, especially considering the fate of the Haligtreee. It was removed if the network to prevent interacting with the Greater Will and was sustained purely by Miquella. Once Mohg removed him, the Haligtree would have started dying.
What even more interesting is that this connects further with the ideas of Convergence, Regression, and Causality from the Golden Order. If the Greater Will is a kind of myconid being, that would connect it to the Rot God corrupting Malenia. Fungi are a huge part of corrupted areas.
In the All-Seeing set it states that Gideon saw Marika's truth, something terrifying that shouldn't exist. We also know that Marika broke the Elden Ring, likely because of this deeper, horrifying knowledge. It could be that many of the Outer Gods are simply aspects of a single being.
Just had a thought given that flame and ice are prevalent themes here and the Crucible of Life is a thing. This could reference Scandinavian folklore about Muspelheim and Nifelheim, the lands of fire and ice. The Crucible of Life sat between the two poles. And interestingly, we have fire giants here rather than the ice giants of legend.
Being mildly unfathomable helps build their position within the world.
Of course it ties to hand of god. They basically exist simultaneously in another dimension (keeping them from harm). And similar to the voice/scribe of God, they communicate God's will through other means, as people can't understand such themselves.
Tying to Gnostic structure that these games build upon, the Fingers are basically the equivalent of Metatron. Metatron is also tied to the theory that there could be more Gods in Heaven (but that they're still not all equal). There's also stories of Enoch being turned to Flames, drawing a correlation to the Fingers of the Frenzies Flame.
" _This Enoch, whose flesh was turned to flame, his veins to fire, his eye-lashes to flashes of lightning, his eye-balls to flaming torches, and whom God placed on a throne next to the throne of glory, received after this heavenly transformation the name Metatron._ "
And so on. All the alchemical stuff was basically just a precautionary path to the prior Gnostic (and Hermetic) roots that it built upon.
I'm convinced Fromsoft chose the Fingers purely because of the "Try Finger, But Whole" thing I saw all over DS3
I do think they're fingers because hands can reach for things. They are literally the Greater Will's hands. The legs, however, were probably not in the game because Miyazaki's staff had to hold him back from making feet characters.
Just think about it, we're playing a game called Elden RING so it's only logical there would be FINGERS everywhere
What if I told you GoldMask represents you the player, the one who studies lore of elden ring incessantly, combing every detail, yet missing that critical piece of information:
That Melina IS both Marika and Ranni.
Melina, who has the gold eye of Marika, the Gloam Eye of Ranni. The one who casts ancient Erdtree spells but fights like a black knife assassin. What if it wasn't just Ranni's body that got split, but also her soul. One half of her soul taken and merged with part of Marika, giving birth to her new form at the Erdtree.
I always had the Theory that the Two Fingers are in some Kind of Parasitic Relationship with either the Erdtree or Humans, as the fingers dont need Nutrients or Water to survive, but Faith. Faith in all of Fromsoft's Games isn't a measure of how much You believe in The Golden Order, the Greater Will or any other Religion the game calls "Holy", but a scale on how much you believe in literally anything. As Faith not only benefits weapons like the Sacred Relic Sword, the weapon of a literal God, but also its "Enemies", like the Blasphemous Blade, Godslayer Greatsword or even weapons imbued with the Flame of Frenzies Power. The Fingers are Parasites (Lets even say they are mushrooms) that feed on the Faith of People. The ones in Roundtable Hold have people believing in them (even if the faith in them is little, wich would explain their rotten state) Around them all the time, the ones on the Holy Towers are cut of, the Towers remote, and the Doors sealed. They died. Rannis two Fingers had a thing to do, they had a task, they had purpose, and also where connected to the earth, so they could get Nutrients from the Erdtree. The last ones, the Three Fingers seem to have the most energie out of the Fingers we actually see. In my opinion thats because they have the most active Followers in the Humans, the Rats and every Creature Corrupted by the Flame of Frenzie.
I will have to correct one thing.
The Kaath comparison is poor. The Two fingers are like both Frampt and Kaath. Frampt advocated maintaining the current age, Kaath advocated bringing on a new age.
The Three Fingers however advocate a pure regression. It would be like calling a Stone Dragon that wants to return the world of DarkSouls to the Age of Gray Crags and uniformity, and saying that's the same thing as what Kaath advocated for.
To me, they look like chromosomes, even the three fingered variety of the frenzied flame. Them silently instructing the characters in the story would be like chromosomes deciphering DNA and controlling/shaping cells in a body.
I know it’s a stretch, but there’s a weird corrupted body metaphor happening throughout the game. The map is a giant finger. There are gargantuan bodies making up the landscape throughout. The grafting, the scarlet rot, the perfumers, the tree guardians all point to an unbalanced, decaying world. What if the Erd Tree and the Elden beast are a literal cancer of the land, and the fingers are spreading its corruption?
Just a thought
Personally, I think this fanbase has a bad habit of making straightforward things sound nonsensical for no reason. The game repeatedly tells us that the Two Fingers, just like the Elden Beast/Elden Ring, are vassals of the Greater Will. How exactly they're made isn't relevant, they're creations of the Greater Will just like the beast is and carry out its bidding.
The game even tells us they've been around since the Prehistoric Era before the Erdtree and gave the beastmen of Farum Azula intelligence and we know Farum Azula was ruled by the Greater Will via the ancient dragons who served it. Its really not that deep nor are they out of place at all, them being giant fingers made of flesh when alive and then drying up and turning into wood is perfectly thematically fitting in a game that revolves around magical trees, and a master manipulator Outer God who influences the Lands Between from afar using its vassals/puppets to control the world.
Varre also tells us that when the Shattering took place the fingers got corrupted and their words can't be trusted, which is proven true when we learn we're actually on a mission from Marika who gave us grace not the Greater Will, and the Two Fingers go into stasis for hundreds of years to contact the Greater Will because they're confused why it wont let the Tarnished into the Erdtree: proving that it did indeed abandon the Lands Between like the opening narration says and didn't give the Tarnish grace or anything. So that would also explain their withered state.
I've got two theories of why its all fingers.
1. Playing on the "ring" part of Elden Ring
2. George RR Martin didn't want Miyazaki to make them toes
My crackpot theory: the Fingers are emissaries/extensions/ghostly remnants of Placidusax, forced to serve the Greater Will now that Placidusax is defeated
Lmao, I think it is HIGHLY unlikely that the fingers belong to the giant skeletons.
Unless all of the giants had tiny lawyer hands who could barely grasp two people at once....
My first conclusion about the two fingers is that their presence is so out of place that they must be representing an abstract concept. A 5 fingered hand is symbolic of intelligence, as stated in game, but we only know that meaning because it is stated directly. Like, how Christian iconography sometimes shows Christ with fingers contorted into a strange configuration - its original purpose was to spell out a word but without having that context a viewer just sees an awkward looking hand. Similar concept applies to iconography of other religions.
The most satisfying explanation that I could arrive at is that the Greater Will is communicating that "something" is a binary. Option 1 or option 2. 2 fingers. That the 2 fingers are weaker now would therefore indicate that the Greater Will has lost certainty in the binary options. Whatever the two options are, the frenzied flame offers a 3rd option.
How I have always seen it, is as if the fingers themselves had been other tarnished, or humans/beings, before, and at some point they had received consultance from the Greater Will. I believe that they then slowly began to morph into this state of 'finger-like' appearance, due to their 'function' being shifted in their life to mainly receive and give consultation from the Greater Will.
My main reason for this is that, in the room of the two fingers at the roundtable hold, behind the fingers is a big chair.
Why would there ever be a big chair, if the finger(s) had always been a standing being?
In combination with everything else which you hear and feel during my playthroughs, it kind of clicks for me.
I do know that I only have this one chair of actual evidence.
However, I still like to think that the fingers used to be actual beings similar to tarnished or empyrean or even numen, and that after attaining a significant presence in the lands between, they received guidance from the Greater Will (or other outer gods; just like the three fingers then would have had received their guidance from the god of frenzied flame). But not only guidance, but also a function.
The function to relay messages from outer gods and to consult them.
Rannis lil metal crown thing the surrounds her hat looks kinda like the cipher pata language or “finger language” script thingy
With regards to two fingers, I'm actually surprised that no one outside of Russian youtube discusses the version of dorotabo: "They appears as one-eyed, three-fingered humanoid figures rising out of the mud at night. It is said that the five fingers of the human hand represent three vices and two virtues: anger, greed, ignorance, wisdom, and compassion."
I'm working on a giant megalithic video rn on a different channel that explains exactly what the Greater Will is, the nature of the Formless Mother, what the greater will possibly was before it became the entity it is today. Why red is primordial gold (the 3 different reasons). And of course, what the fingers are and why they're fingers in the first place. I can't wait to share what I've found. With all our eyes together, the path is clear.
You've got shrooms on the mind because you're trippin, bro!
Just kidding. I think you've been onto something for a while with your mushroom idea. The dead guy at the base sure is a good explanation as to why they're so beat up and dead looking. Great video.
What's the deal with the bell bearings? They seem superfluous, which is not Miyazaki's MO
I always thought that Ranni's fingers were three, the frenzied fingers are three, the dead fingers atop the tower are two and the live fingers at the roundtable are two, making for a total of 10 fingers - five on each hand, with each hand having been split. I felt that the reference was Christian "the world rests in the hands of God".
I thought that the fingers were literally a representation of the hands of God, which had been severed and appeared on the earth to 'support and guide the world', being split between purposes as needed. I think it makes sense that the true "body of God" could relay His messages, however, it is also true that the measure of separation from God determines "humaness" - the further the separation from God, the more human one becomes. so perhaps that measure of separation of the fingers became too great after the shattering, which caused God to abandon the world in a sense, allowing the hands of God to be corrupted and/or capable of some form of death due to human influence/God's abandonment, or perhaps the fingers were never holy to begin with (more likely). the moment the hands were separated from the body of God they began to drift from the path of holiness, i.e. develop their own apparent sense of free will, and become intwined with human interests, developing their own sense of righteousness, which may not have aligned with the Will of God. this could be a reason that Ranni wanted to be free of them. not only were they near omnipotent, but they had developed beyond that of an oracle of God, with their own agenda and will, separate from the Will of God. we can see that in their attempts to take revenge on Ranni and in the creatures that spawned across the lands (those weird finger creatures). Ranni wanted to kill God, essentially, and restore true order to the lands between, but in the process, she had to kill the corrupted former oracles of God and sacrifice the demigods.
Ranni recognized that the world had been destroyed by "human nature" - if there is a "True God" in the lands between (questionable), then that True God chose human vassals and representatives, as well as oracles that could be corrupted by human nature, leading to a world run by humans that were treated as Gods. none of these God representatives ever lost their "humaness", yet they were treated as Gods. we see this in Marika's desire to eliminate competitors to the throne of God-hood and her fear of death. none of these God representatives were ever holy, or God-like, and this discrepancy caused the downfall. human nature will never rise to the stature of God-hood, and anything separated from God and thrust into the human world will also become corrupted by humaness, if it wasn't corrupted to begin with by nature. as a result, we are led to question the omnipotence of the True God, since it should be clear that humans can never become Gods, and the True God should have known this before the shattering began.
this leads the viewer to believe that there is not a "True God" and that this Greater Will is only one of many competing God-like entities, possibly extra-terrestrial beings (like the astral being we fight at one point), who want to control the Earth and those within it for reasons unknown. the reason that these beings cannot reveal themselves is because they would be rejected immediately by humanity - look at the astral being we fight. it's repulsive. so human representatives are needed. but extra-terrestrial beings with higher powers are not Gods, in fact, they are little different from human beings, vying for power and influence. Marika eventually realized this fact, and destroyed the Eldin Ring in the hope of freeing humanity from the influence of the extra-terrestrial being currently in power, but failed. everything she does just before and after the shattering leads us to believe that she wanted to free humanity from the influence of the extra-terrestrial Greater Will currently in power, since she viewed the death of Godwin as a betrayal, and as proof that this being could not protect her from death itself, which demonstrated to Marika that this Greater Will was not God - only God can save us from death, again, a Christian idea. when Marika saw that death was inevitably a part of the world, and that the Greater Will could not save her from death, she revolted, having realized that the Greater Will was not God, since it did not have to power to truly stave off death, and grant eternal life, even to those selected as human Gods, Empyreans and Demigods.
Marika realized that she was just being used as a tool in the power struggles of extra-terrestrial beings with higher powers, and her personality revolted immediately, while Radagon attempted to repair the Eldin Ring, knowing that their revolt would cause immense suffering. Radagon more than likely agreed with Marika about the Greater Will, but chose to attempt to preserve the order knowing that it would nearly destroy humanity to destroy the Eldin Ring. perhaps he was thinking of his former wife, his soldiers, and his children, while Marika had already decided to sacrifice everything to defy these extra-terrestrial beings in order to free humanity, since she probably felt that humans could not be saved from death even within the protection of the Eldin Ring, so preserving order seemed pointless to her. In short, I believe that the hands (the fingers) may have appeared in this form simply due to human convention - i.e. the hands of God provide guidance. they appeared in the form of human hands to seem familiar in some way. it is possible that they were initially two hands, like the form of the smaller fingers that we see crawling across the lands, but were separated by humans to serve different purposes. I believe that the fingers were both imperfect to begin with (not representative of any "True God", but rather the oracle of an a "False God") and that they were further corrupted by their separation from the Greater Will, having become accustomed to human ways, due to the fact that the fingers appear to have some level of apparent free will. even the hands of God cannot escape death - that alone should be proof that Marika made the right choice. the "outer wills" are not Gods at all.
The more I consider it the more I am certain that what the Fingers do with Empyreans is put a Golden Shade in their body, replacing them and ascending to godhood. Ranni slays her Empyrean body to avoid this, resulting in Melina, a Golden Shade without a body. Godfrey's Golden Shade was removed when he became Tarnished and remained in the Capitol, and before they were Tarnished they themselves once had golden eyes. Now the discarded golden shades of the Tarnished guard the Demigod mausoleums. I think in this same way that you are right, The Greater Will killed the Giants and their two fingers were used as the first hosts of the golden shades and chose the Empyreans. The three fingers was discarded as impure, but that is where chaos thrives, as a blasphemy and mockery of the two fingers.
The World in Elden ring is controlled though our Fingers, choosing Which Path to walk, who to kill and who to spare by the press of you finger on a Button.
The Two finger + Three Fingers equals a full hand, and we the player can only interact with this World with the use of our hands and fingers.. Our character never talks and neither the fingers. They try to intrepid the fingers through their gesturing.
I know its probaly not That simple, but felt a need to share it.
When I heard words like "inner-member" , the "fingers" and overall the "two finger" I was expecting a cultist approach of it where two of the highest members were the ones having some sort of connection or ritual with something out worldly. And the whole "great will" was more a doctrine....turns out it was an actual two finger hand and a god unnironacally called "great will"?
At this point, Im starting to think Fromsoft doesn't write lore, but rather they just give the community the big pieces of the story, and then lets us "figure out" the mystery of their games. There is no way that there's a storyboard somewhere laying out the truths all of the lore we've been theorizing. I refuse to believe FromSoft possesses a lucid explanation of the history of the lands between. God. I love this game
Ok here we go. The fingers are all hands that were taken from giants in the war of the giants. Why is this the case? If you look at the Carian Manor you will find a ton of giant blue hands. Magic, specifically Carian magic was used to turn disembodied hands into crazy spider monsters. Why do this though? My thoughts are that if you follow the theme of hands in the game (starting with the beast men and the beast man's blade) you will see that the development of the "human" hand was a sign of high intelligence. Garranq is a fallen version of Maliketh. Why is this important. Maliketh is Malik (King in arabic) and Eth which is a combination of the two hebrew letters that amount to "alpha and omega". Maliketh was "the king of the beginning and the end" so the guy that could END anyone. Garranq sounds like the spanish word "garra" which is paw or claw. He lost his status as a king. A being with hands and became a "beast clergyman" who's name means claw. He demoted himself to the most fallen state.
Tying that back in with the hands of the giants. If you want to humiliate your enemies you take their hands as trophies to show that they will never be able create anything again since hands are the means of all creation and rebellion. The biggest hands of the biggest giants were considered the most powerful and capable and were repurposed as a means to commune with a greater will. The greater will is a mystery but to me it means the "will to perpetuate life" or the "will that pushes us to create." That is a much deeper rabbit hole. The giants in my opinion created the land itself. They created the towers, the automatons and the crucible.
My proof for tis is that the spider hands come in all sizes: from troll to titan. The crawling ones look like they are bound together like they would be if a person had their hands bound behind their back. Also, every giant on the mountain top of giants is missing their hands. It's not mushrooms.
Thank you for your efforts and honor, you and a couple others I look to for Elden Ring lore and entertainment 🙏