ELDEN RING - Why Malenia and Radahn Fought in the Battle of Aeonia & Why the Shattering War Happened
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- Опубликовано: 17 июн 2024
- This episode of ELDEN RING Encyclopedia covers the Battle of Aeonia and the Shattering War: The context, stakes, and consequences. Big thanks to Bobio (@bobiodon) for providing his narration talents!
Introduction 00:00
Chapter 1 Context 02:45
Chapter 2 Stakes 06:34
Chapter 3 Consequences 16:47
Dissolution of a family 24:38
References:
1. Previous video, "ELDEN RING | Malenia Nuking Caelid Was Tragic, Not Malicious": • ELDEN RING | Malenia N...
2. @SmoughTown, "Elden Ring Lore | Miquella the Unalloyed": • Elden Ring Lore | Miqu...
3. @Kosmos_er, "Miquella & The Soulless Bones | Elden Ring Lore Theory": • Miquella & The Soulles...
4. Zullie the Witch, "Elden Ring - The Tragedy of Leonard": • Elden Ring - The Trage...
5. "Elden Ring: The Big Hidetaka Miyazaki Interview - Summer of Gaming": www.ign.com/articles/elden-ri...
6. "A look into the history of ELDEN RING’s lands between: the Age of Gods": en.bandainamcoent.eu/elden-ri...
This video covers the items: Rock Sling, Remembrance of the Starscourge, Collapsing Stars, Radahn's Redmane Helm, Miquella's Needle, Radagon's Rings of Light, Haligtree Crest Surcoat, and Malenia's Winged Helm.
This video also includes dialogue from Millicent, Miriel, Melina, Sellen and the opening.
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Hey! Thanks for all of the wonderful discussion. Regarding a recurring comment about why Morgott would label Radahn a traitor if he was pro-Golden Order:
This is something I considered but didn't make it into the video (sorry!). I agree that theoretically Morgott and Radahn should get along, however I think there are a few reasons they don't that basically all come down to the fact that trust was low and ambitions high.
None of them trusted one another due to the mysterious circumstances behind Godwyn's death and the Elden Ring shattering. Morgott is characterized as being perhaps the most critical of his kin having ambitions or motives in this situation and seems to take the stance of waiting for the Greater Will or Marika to do something.
So while Radahn wants to maintain the status quo and uphold the Golden Order, he also has the ambition to be like his idols and take action, and Morgott (who himself also has a Great Rune) sees this as treacherous and is dubious of all of their intentions.
That's fair, and I don't disagree. I am extrapolating a bit in that its not that he just loves big trees, but that he believes fully in the holiness of the Erdtree and the Golden Order. He sees that they are forsaken by the higher powers of the Golden Order, and to me he is waiting as a steward until such time when they are no longer forsaken, if that day ever comes. At least I see that as a natural consequence in believing that they are forsaken and no one can claim Elden Lord.
That's pretty clearly Morgott fighting Radahn in the intro too.
There's actually a lot of hints that Morgott gets along with the Haligtree faction in some way: he compliments the twins before his final fight (I think this is the only nice thing he ever says about anyone?), there's a statue of them still located in Morgott's area of Altus (where you get the Amber Starlight item) as well as a castle aligned with them in the same region (which Morgott doesn't seem to be doing anything about), Millicent "retracing the path Malenia took" after Aeonia takes her right through Leyndell (and Leyndell's walls have never fallen so apparently Malenia didn't need to force her way through), and perhaps most notable of all, there are two Night's Cavalry (who drop items identifying them as Morgott's men) escorting a hearse containing the Flowing Curved Sword (sword of Malenia's mentor) towards Ordina (site of the Haligtree waygate) in the Consecrated Snowfield (which they couldn't even have gotten to without a Haligtree medallion).
@@mensarius6432 I don't think Morgott got along with the twins. He calls them traitors also for a reason. Miquella was once loyal to the Golden Order but abandoned it and Malenia followed him. He then created the Haligtree to replicate the Erdtree which is enough for him to be a traitor to the Erdtree.
"I know this book. Your conclusions are all wrong, Ryan. Halsey acted stupidly."
I thought the war occurred since Miquella is located below where the fighting took place. Miquella is probably a reference to Prosperina, Roman goddess of vegetation. She was kidnapped by Hades and forcibly made his consort. She was immune to aging and disease too. Her mother Ceres tried to find her, but was limited to the surface above the Roman underworld. Ceres was the goddess of harvest/abundance who was also associated with poppies - Papaver Somniferum: sleep-bringing poppy. Malenia doesn't fit that however but St. Trina does. Malenia is more likely to be Athena, red-haired goddess of strategic warfare, weaving (needles), etc. Athena's red-haired brother was Ares, god of brutal warfare. That's basically Radahn. Athena also cursed a mortal weaver name Arachne to become a spider, likely leading to the cocoon Miquella is in and the others at the Haligtree.
Caria was also a Greek city-state with a temple to the goddess Hecate (Ranni) who commonly depicted as a three-headed goddess along with Prosperina and Luna (Melina) in the Roman era. Given that the lake of rot is below Caria in Elden Ring, that would make it the river Styx. Any mortal who entered it would become invulnerable, like Achilles. Of course, Malenia is born into the lake of rot and was imbued with a god of rot: Styx was the goddess of the river Styx. Alexander the Great, greatest general in irl history, was rumored to have killed by water from the river Styx. Malenia scarlet rots both Radahn and Caelid. Part of Radahn also ends up in a warrior jar named Alexander.
Not sure if this stuff has been picked up on yet though, it's very obscure. I'm also trying very hard to avoid lore videos until DLC to keep the game feeling new.
Malenia needed to beat Radahn. His grip on the stars prevented the Eclipse that Miquela required to complete the Haligtree's growth and heal not just the divine twins, but also the entirety of the lands between.
Too much rested on victory to accept an honorable defeat. By unleashing the rot she might kill Radahn and save her brother's vision, but then she could never return to her home at the Haligtree for fear of corrupting it with her rot as well. But even unleashing the rot, she still failed to kill Radahn and unleash the stars, and worse her soldiers brought her unconscious and infectious body back home, corrupting the Haligtree and dooming the vision she had sacrificed everything including her dignity for. Even worse yet, while she was away in Caelid failing to defeat Radahn Mohg ripped Miquela's cocoon from the Haligtree and abducted him, so she couldn't even have the comfort of her brother's companionship in the ruin of her failure.
No wonder she's in a state of near catatonic depression when you find her.
Perhaps I judged her too harshly.
yeahh right but my biggest gripe with all of this was did they fight in aeonia orrrr radahn's arena? it just does not make sense if they fought in aeonia then how did radahn get to his current place? and if they fought in radahns arena thenn whhhat happened to aeonia?
@@warcriment7298 A war is named after the main place it took place but the war may span across various places.
@@warcriment7298 they fought in the aeonia then i think radahn went to the beach to waste away
We fight Malenia AT the Haligtree so, no.
Godrick is like that one cousin who the family excommunicated a while ago but still managed to grab some stuff out of the house while everyone was at the will reading
A lil specific ..?
Lmfaooo
“Get as much funeral cake as you can!”
How I look at it is like the Platinum games catalog. You have a couple amazing stand out characters, a couple weirdos that are endearing. Then, much like God hand is to Platinum games, you have Godrick like the asshole smoking crack in the corner.
@@Garl_Vinland **Starts mushing handfuls of cake into my pockets**
Elden Ring: A game where you work out a family’s issues by killing them.
We also resolved a bloody slave revolt in Castle Morne by either directly or indirectly killing everyone.
Then George RR Martin did indeed leave his mark ^^
There can be no family issues if there is no family left.
Actually this is the lord of frezied flame ending, you solve the world's problems by killing everyone in it.
Isn't that the best way to end the issues?
Now I want a crusader king version of the land between.
Rather than aunt Malenia revealing a secret to give uncle Radahn a heart attack, it's more like aunt Malenia and uncle Radahn got into a heated cooking competition, but Malenia put in an ingredient that Radahn was severely allergic to because she didn't expect Radahn to have binge watched and practiced the method of 78 gourmet cooking shows before this contest.
I also feel like Radahn has one hand in the air and holding with it an ingredient that Ranni wants in order to make her dish, but Radahn is just like "no, I won't let you cook that shit, we are going to do our traditional family dish" then she calls a random guy and her dog to beat the shit out of him so that she can finally cook a moon's shape dark chocolate cake.
And then she marries the guy because why not
@@saulitix ''then she calls a random guy and her dog to beat the shit out of him so that she can finally cook a moon's shape dark chocolate cake.
And then she marries the guy because why not'' Insanely deep lore. Truly tearjerking.
@@saulitix "And then she marries the guy because why not"
It was because it she was able to cook DELICIOUS Moon-shaped Dark Chocolate Cake with Icy Frosting.
I mean, the cake was delicious, the guy helped to make cake, Ranni wants more cake, logically she marries the guy who can get her more cake.
@@TheStraightestWhitest I'm kind of an obsessed Elden Ring fan myself
JUST LET HIM COOK!
I think it's the ultimate karmic fate for Radahn, the demigod who wanted to hold time in place whether it be his relationship with his horse or the fate of the stars, that he ends up wasting away in Miyazaki's favorite metaphor for stagnation: rot.
Good thing. Now people can have freedom now
@@asta8153 It's questionable that moving away from the Golden Order is freedom; especially since the most oft used Ranni ending just leads the world into the hands of another power that has Ranni as its patron.
@@stephenjenkins7971 ranni was not the only one who thought of defeating Radahn to make the stars move again. And they still got more freedom after Radahns defeat so its a good thing he's dead now.
@@asta8153 You literally have no proof of anything of what you've said. Why is Ranni's Rule of the Stars more freedom compared to the Golden Order? Ranni never once indicated that that was the case; she did everything she did for her own freedom, not for the Lands Between.
Put another way; she sparked a massive civil war and mass destruction and death for her own benefit while Radahn protected his people.
Putting it like that; Ranni deserves far worse.
@@stephenjenkins7971 ... Her entire thing was cutting off all deities from the world.
My theory is that Radahn was the "big bro" that was trying to hold the family together. He didnt want to see either side fight so he froze the stars which brings everything to a standstill. Ranni cant progress her quest because of this and the golden order is satisfied with having everything stay as is so it doesnt feel the need to seek Ranni or her order out. Once you free the stars the black knives start killing off Rannis commanders because she is a threat again. In my eyes I think Radahn was standing between the two forces making it to where they cant really fight each other.
That’s a good theory
Nope. He's a Golden Order loyalist. This is very prevalent in his admiration for Godfrey. The reason why he halted the stars is because the Golden Order wanted him to do so.
Telescope item description reads:
During the age of the Erdtree, Carian astrology withered on the vine. The fate once writ in the night skies had been fettered by the Golden Order.
The Golden Order was fearful of Ranni's fate which is to bring about the Age of Stars that's why they tried to stop it.
so both malenia and radahn were trying to protect eachothers familys
@@danielhall635 credible, but I think Radahn wanted to seize power for himself instead (hopefully with good intentions).
Had he been a Golden Order loyalist, he would have likely disdained Godfrey (who was banished by Marika/Golden Order), and aided Morgott, rather than invading Leyndell.
We can also see that he himself holds no grudge towards the Tarnished, or even the Misbegotten, since one of them guards his plaza; Alongside a Crucible Knight, of which the Golden Order resented.
Necrp but, I like this but the thing I don't understand with this theory and in game, weren't the black knives contracted by Ranni in the first place?
And after all these efforts and sacrifices, creepy uncle Mohg just HAD to swoop in and fuck things up for everybody !
I love that story, great video man :)
Isn't that the entire tragedy? Malenia sacrificed everything for the age of Unalloyed Gold, even her entire being to kill the conqueror of fate, but it was all for nothing as their neglected brother came and stole her only hope. And the tragedy that Radahn would be infested with rot; either by Malenia or because he refused to change. Both of them would've lost no matter the outcome. Amazing writing by Miyazaki
@@kaingates That's how I feel yeah, and then added to that the overbearing melancholy of Elphael, where everyone is still clinging on to their fate that their savior will return eventually. With the cherry on top of the oracles coming to the tree to herald the arrival of a new god. That god being Malenia and not Miquella. This subversion is so good.
Melania: "Hey Mohg have you-?"
Mohg: "I'M FUCKING YOUR BROTHER!"
@@QuestionableObject Also Mohg: *''MORBIUS!''*
Moral of the story? Don't unleash turbo STDs that your abusive stepdad (Outer God) gave you as a baby on your own brother, because your other brother might just swoop in and steal your other other brother out of a cocoon in a tree.
What the fuck... writing it down like that makes you realize how messed up the lore really is.
Miquella and Malenia loved Godwyn deeply, so deeply, that they were willing to kill their half brother Radahn so that the eclipse could happen for a chance to revive Godwyns body and soul. There's evidence of such love in the Haligtree town, where there's a statue of Godwyn holding both Malenia and Miquella in his arms. This is why I love From Soft, we can figure all this out and Godwyn has a literal 2 seconds of screen time in the entirety of the game.
and now we know that's not Godwyn... that's probably Messmer
@syamantakdutta it doesn't resemble messmer at all though
Fun fact: cutting off Omen's horns makes them weaker.
That's why there's a mini-boss fight where you face two omens who are twins, but the one who still has their horns is much more dangerous than their sibling.
Yeah I believe the horns hold vestiges of the raw power of the crucible. That's why the regal omen bairn is stronger than the omen bairn.
I recently rewatched the game's reveal trailer, and the way it's edited, cutting between shots of the Battle of Aeonia and the shattering of the Elden Ring, made me reflect that the outer, physical struggle between Malenia and Radahn perhaps mirrors the inner struggle taking place within the being of Marika and Radagon, as she attempts to shatter the ring and he attempts to repair it. Two indomitable wills, intimately linked but completely opposed. Sadly, the shattering is inevitable, and war and devastation will be the result.
Good shit man
Honestly the demi gods deserve it after killing so many and enslaving the rest.
I never really understood why the shattering was inevitable. What was wrong with the golden order that necessitated this? Was it just not wanting an "outter influence"?
@@CodeThatTalksthe Lands Between, just like in Dark Souls, goes through natural cycles of ages. Just like Gwyn kept his age going unnaturally, so do does Marika.
I think too often, people overlook the context for the battle of Aeonia. Malenia and Radahn are the last two undefeated forces clashing. This was supposed to be the final fight to end the war, a war to reshape the world. And yet, both sides brought their personal baggage into the fight.
Radahn seems the more simple fighter to understand; he wanted to be Godfrey 2.0 and had the power to see it through. Look at 6:29, Radahn looks very comfortable with himself, having disarmed himself while giving Milenia time to reattach her arm prosthesis which seems to have come off in the course of the battle. I think this can be read two different ways. One, Radahn was supremely confident in his own ability to win, so in a moment of arrogance, in the middle of an ongoing battle, he disarmed himself to show Milenia he was assured of his own victory. Two, Radahn respected Milenia's prowess and intended to face her honorably, at her strongest.
Milenia hates the scarlet rot and has been fighting it all her life. She had pride in her sense of agency, her personhood, which the rot threatens to take away. In the fight with Radahn, the "pride" she abandons is her holding herself to a higher standard, a lady not a rotten creature. When she realizes she won't defeat Radahn without the power of rot, she sacrifices a part of her personhood to serve Miquella. And I do think that is what it is, a sacrifice of what she holds most dear.
You're correct. Victory for Radahn was assured unless she unleashed the outer Gods power of Scarlet Rot
@@nelson_rebel3907 And even so, with the fate of the world riding on her performance in battle, she still tried to uphold her pride. She wanted to win on her own terms, and it is only when she realizes that simply isn't going to work, she gives in to the rot. It must have felt like such a humiliation. And Radahn, for whatever reason, managed to hold himself to the standard she wanted to hold herself to, but failed. Even though the fight ended in essentially a draw, I doubt that is how Millenia sees it. She probably sees it as a humiliating defeat, with the salt in the wound being that her brother had been kidnapped while she was fighting a battle that was essentially pointless.
@@daniell1483 Eh, I mean even with a nuke she still failed to conquer radahn. If that isnt a complete failure, then I dont know what is.
@@largecupenjoyer1459 For her cause, sure. But the rot definitely debilitated Radahn. No longer is he a power in the land capable of being Godfrey 2.0. Taking the last great power out of the war isn't nothing.
@@largecupenjoyer1459 this was the worst outcome Radahn, for a warrior such as himself to be reduced to a mindless beast is a fate worst then death so if malenia goal was to "kill" all that radahn was...she did it.
Wayhey! Here we go, looking forward to this my man
This is why I love your videos and Smoughs: Nuance. A lot of fans and creators seems to ignore it and go straight to the lowest hanging fruit that serves their own bias. You’re absolutely right, It is entirely possible to hold both assertions about both Malenia and Radahn as true and if anything it enriches one’s experience with the material.
The Auntie Malenia/Uncle Radahn thing is now my headcanon. Would have loved to be at the family dinner that kicked off that dispute...
Big thanks to you for inviting me to narrate!
godrick would be bullied so bad...
@@lemnioaz3854 ranni would be an outcast and hated because she is the reason all the problems start not to mention she is reason Godwyn was murdered
I personally think that Radahn only survived as much as he did from the Scarlet Rot was because he held the stars and fate in stasis, leaving him to fester and his mind to leave, but for his body and magic to endure as he resisted his own defeat. Malenia would also likely believe her brother who, if she was successful, would either be the one able to undo the blight on Caelid, or she not realize the full scale the damage of the Rot would spread if she released it, and hoped it would only result in the death of herself and Radahn.
I just thought about something. In the cinematic where Malenia and Radahn fight, she impales Radahn and then stabs herself with the broken end of the sword. I originally thought that she wanted to infect Radahn's blood with her ow, thus giving him scarlet rot. I just realized that she might be stabbing herself to break the golden needle under her skin and release the rot.
I think one important detail about Radahn that is worth mentioning in the context of the idea that he was a stooge of the Golden Order is a loading screen image which depicts the battle at the gates of Leyndell during the Shattering. In it, Radahn is shown pinned to the ground, with Morgott's blade across his throat. We see in the lore around Morgott that he was the supreme defender of Leyndell, both ruling from behind the scenes as the Veiled King and serving as it's mightiest warrior under the guise of Margit, the leader of the Night's Cavalry.
While I think it is certainly clear that Radahn admired his father and Godfrey especially, and sought to similar legacy for himself, I don't think it so likely that he would simply wish to preserve the Golden Order as it was. Particularly given that his father Radagon had abandoned his wife Rennala and his children to serve as Marika's second consort, it seems to me far more likely that he was less concerned with preserving the Golden Order than he was preserving his family. It would make more sense that he was seeking to conquer Leyndell and drag his father back to Liurnia to help Rennala recover from her despair, and to reassert control over the rebellious factions within the Carian Academy.
After being forced back to Selia to lick his wounds and consult with the loyal Carian sorcerers who formed his counsel (seen as a semicircle of chairs on the parapet of Redmane castle, surrounding an astrolabe and a chair clearly made for him), it makes sense that Melania and Miquella's armies conquering southwards would seen him and the Redmane armies as key players to either recruit to aid in their taking the remainder of the Lands Between (possibly including Leyndell, which would make recruiting an army that knew the defenses already invaluable) or to conquer as potential threats and to take Radahn's Great Rune to further their goals.
In my view, then, Radahn certainly would have still been defined by his steadfast and stubborn refusal to accept change, but was less a stooge of the Golden Order than he was a man trying to pull his family back together through his sheer might and will. That makes far more sense given what we know of his past and his priorities than him being an adherent of the Golden Order of Marika, who broke his family and the world apart by her actions.
I think this is a well-reasoned take, although the foundation of your comment, the image that seemingly shows Radahn and Morgott is not necessarily showing what you describe, or I should say it is speculative if that is what it is describing. The 2nd defense of Leyndell does describe Morgott repelling and attack, however this image does not necessarily show this battle, there is not definitive context in it. On top of this, there are no Redmane soldiers or banners outside of Leyndell in the game, corpses or otherwise. What I think this is showing is something described in the Night's Cavalry set, which says "The Night's Cavalry, who now wander the dim roads at night, were once led by the Fell Omen and were deliverers of death for great warriors, knights, and champions". The Night's Cavalry are found far and wide across the Lands Between, and I see their actions as a destabilizing force that assaulting the armies of the Shattering. I think this image may show an instance of Morgott as the Fell Omen attacking Radahn's armies.
All of that aside, I don't think that even if Radahn attacked Leyndell that it would be indicative of him not supporting the Golden Order, just that his ambitions were for him to be in power and not Morgott. This goes back to the distrust and design behind the demigods that describes them all as having various ambitions fueled by the Great Runes.
@@LoreHunter that's fair! My assumption was always that Radahn and the Redmanes took part in the war between Rykard's Volcano Manor and Leyndell, since some of Rykard's flaming head assault weapos can be found in Selia, presumably as a part of their cooperation. And I don't know of any lore which specified whether or not Radahn every actually took part in Rykard's assault on Leyndell, or any other particular one. Nor, tbf, does Miyazaki have any interest in making things entirely clear in terms of events or motivations in his games, as he's said on a number of occasions 😅 still, though, I should've included that I really enjoyed the video and speculation, and especially taking the time to point out how much the community has seemed to rally around Radahn and against Malenia in general as good vs. evil instead of the complex and tragic story it really was, and how that bias leads to overlooking Radahn's own faults and failures in leading up to it. Really great stuff, and appreciate the effort and love that went in by you and your collabs! Always happy to see more good lore channels!
This is the most pleasant exchange of ideas and opinions I’ve ever seen in a comment section. Hats off to both of you for showcasing textbook civil discourse in one of the most volatile areas of the internet
@@theroadstopshere It's not radahn unless you're saying he can inflate and deflate at will.
Radahn is 6x bigger, but the figure under Horn boy is smaller than him.
It's not even the usual "Dark souls makes enemy humans big because cinematography" thing either, since they show Melania next to Radahn, and how insanely huge he just is canonically.
It's just a dude with a red plume, at best, one of Radahns men.
@@youtubecensorship842 the gloves are radahn's. This could have been when he was young, inexperienced, and hasn't grown to his monsterous size.
One of the major impetus of the Shattering War was really Haligtree V ErdTree. Mogh and Praetor Rikard are really side characters in the larger War of the Trees. When Merika shattered the Elden Ring, this gave Miquella the power he needed to begin the HaligTree in earnest. A major threat that Miquella saw, however, wasn't from Morgot or Radahn, but from Godwyn. Malenia fought Radahn because he had stopped the movement of the stars, including the Sun. Miquella needed the stars to move to trigger the Eclipse from Castle Sol and bring Godwyn back to life. This would stop 'Those who live in death' and for Godwin's taint to stop spreading over everything. If it didn't, even if Miquella won, it wouldn't be a real victory: Just trading one rotting tree for another. Remember, at this time Malena's Scarlet Rot was under control with Miquella's Gold Needle. Unfortunately, while she was out fighting, Mogh snuck into the Haligtree and stole the Cocoon that held slumber transformed Miquella. This is why all of the Cocoons at the Brace are stuck in mid-transformation. Malenia triggered the Scarlet Aonia as a last resort by basically removing her unalloyed gold needle as her limiter and thought "Okay, if I'm going to die, I'll take Radahn with me. I may die, but the stars will move, Godwyn will live, Miquella wins." When that didn't work, the unconscious Malenia was taken back by one of her CleanRot knights who died carrying her back to the base of the Haligtree. Problem is that no one replaced the needle, and without the presence of Miquella to create more needles, the Haligtree began to Rot in her presence.
I think, if his mind had not been rotted by it, that radahn would have respected her for unleashing everything she could in the fight.
He just seems like the type that wants those he fights to give it their all, for the thrill of the fight and the more heroic stories it would make
Maybe so. But it wasnt her power, it was the Rot Gods power. Radahn's gravity power is just a technique he learns
Its like putting a boxer who learned a better way to throw his punches against a boxer who is given brass knuckles halfway into a fight.
Not exactly fair
@@nelson_rebel3907 and the that boxer is blind, has cancer³ and is missing 3 limbs
@@nelson_rebel3907 Except that the difference there is that Brass knuckles would give them an objective advantage in that scenario - scarlet rot didn’t for Melania. It was risk versus reward, and her risk didn’t pay off. I do think radahn would have respected her sacrifice and commitment to their battle, in this case. But if you want to think otherwise, it is understandable. It’s not exactly cut and dry, and elden ring isn’t exactly clear with it’s lore.
I just think it’s worth noting that giving into the scarlet rot didn’t give Malenia an edge, but rather allowed her to stand against him toe to toe. She was always at a disadvantage, because radahn is absurd.
But then, that’s mostly influenced by my opinion that Malenia straight up could not match radahn without scarlet rot or some other help; he was just that strong.
The "putting things in stasis" sounds like a solid approach on Radahn's tragedy. He even used his rune fragment to contain the Rot within himself so while he was beyond salvation, he still managed to stay arround one way or another.
Excellent work 🎉 I hadn’t considered that the details of Radahn’s character design hint at his aversion to change. That’s the kind of shit I love
This is the first video I’ve seen that convinced me of the reasons for their conflict. Good work!
Elden Ring’s characters are just the best from Miyazaki so far. Granted, GRRM probably helped, but this is one big reason I prefer the game over Dark Souls.
Martin is good at bleak, and Elden Ring's lore is so bleak.
This is all backstory and GRRM did all the backstory characters. You can tell because the lore in this game is better than the actual npc quest lines.
GRRM made the characters. I think from just designed them
@@angellara7040 Yup, basically GRRM made them then Miyazaki made them more fantastical for his world
Elden ring lore has grrm written all over it. Children and mothers as the main focus, somewhat subtle incest, very puzziling motivations for many people who all desire something different but ultimately need the same thing to complete it.
Radahn: *crosses arms* (as a respectable Ghent)
Malenia: *puts prosthetic back on* “You should’ve listened, now Godwyn will never be revived and bloodshed will continue.”
Radahn: “Godwyn the golden? You mean Godfrey’s son?”
Malenia: “Uh yeah. Why do you ask?”
Radahn: “Oh man if I’d of known that I totally would’ve helped out!” I’ve been holding a bunch of space demons and stars back.”
Malenia: “Oh man you’re right it’s as if there was a whole section of time we could’ve talked about this and came to an agreement.. I just started killing people and almost poisoned your land in a last ditch effort.”
Radahn: “Same and I totally would’ve taken that hit and went crazy for a century. Maybe rip off my feet and eat people. I am so sorry for all this…”
Malenia: “No I have part of the blame too.”
Radahn: “This was such a blunder. I am so embarrassed…”
Malenia: I couldn’t a-
Random scout: “Malenia it’s terrible news!! Mohg kidnapped Miquella from the tree and now everything’s dying and shit!”
Malenia: “WTF, what is wrong with that freak?! Does he want something in return?”
Random troop: “Nothing! He’s just weird like that! Said something about marrying him and throwing blood at him.”
Radahn: “Ah hell naw! Men, help the clean rot survivors, here’s some booze money for later, and go make a feast at red mane castle. I’m about to go star caller on this demigod’s ass. Malenia you in?”
Malenia: “I-I mean like yeah, but where do we find-?”
Radahn: *grabs Malenia* “LEONARD FLIGHT GRAVITY POWERS ACTIVATE!!”
And they flew off to mohgwyn. Malenia beat the shit out of Mohg, saved Miquella, and then Radahn launched him into space where he stays for now.
Malenia, Radahn, and Miquella joined forces after the ordeal and the lands were restored better than ever.
Miquella successfully grew an erd tree that was greater than the original. The broken and unwanted were given respite under the Haligtree and there never was such a place of peace and kinship. With Godwyn the golden visiting as often as he could after being brought back.
Malenia was finally healed thanks to miquellas efforts and was now able to live aside from outer god meddling. She even would lead training events for the haligknights and the soldiers of Caelid. But most of all, Malenia, one of the greatest swords of the land could rest from years of battle.”
Radahn was well loved as ever by his men and now those of the Haligtree. After releasing the stars and making peace with Ranni; Radahn became a farmer and raised livestock. Especially horses. The strongest and good tempered of the land. Everyone in the lands knew if you needed a steed; you went to Radahn.
And as the three demigods sat in the field under the Haligtree; they all laughed and smiled. Because for the first time in years. There was something that they could laugh and smile about.
Best fanfic ever
If only lol Radahn would never do anything like that lol
😂
Definitely not happening in a Fromsoft script lol
Radahn and malenia become king and queen consort of the god miquella, thus giving peace to the lands between
I'm glad you mentioned how the absence of a family head reveals the cracks. There are two major mother figures in the game: Marika and Rannala. Neither of them had any ability to guide their children. Marika was from a physical absence and Rannala from a mental one. Marika was physically imprisoned in the Erd Tree to suffer in body and Rennala was left to suffer in mind. The shattering didn't happen because of the breaking of the Elden Ring, but because of the absence of guidance once the Demigods came in possession of this power.
It's not entirely bleak though. Millicent was able to find her own path and resist the scarlet rot, despite not having her mother to guide her. But trying to save a parent who is so far gone comes with consequences. Millicent dies trying to save her mother. The Black Knife assassin known as Tisch suffered a similar fate when she too died trying to save her own mother. The only one who escapes that pattern is Ranni the Witch. She protects Rennala, but not at the sacrifice of herself. She's doing what she can.
people compare miquella to griffith often, but i think the scarlet aeonia for malenia was the closest thing to what the eclipse was for griffith: a vulnerable moment where these two conflicted characters, given a choice between their ambition and their humanity, catastrophically forsook the latter
Malenia does not have humanity, she is not human
@@hexeronic8453 Melania is human, shes the daughter of Radagon and Marika, both of them are Human.
@@Skibbutz Marika and Radagon are one and the same person and are explicitly stated to be Numen multiple times through the game.
@@hexeronic8453 yes, numen, a race of human. Making Malenia a human aswell
@@Skibbutz numen are also explicitly stated to be a different species but please keep not reading the lore
I used to think “Holds Sellia secure” meant like safe from danger but now I’m sure it means it’s secured still in the same way he has the stars
Don’t know man, seems like your forgetting the rest of the quote. “The Starscourge Conflict, Radahn alone holds Selia secure, and stands tall to shatter the stars.”
It seems pretty evident that Radahn was defending Selia from falling star beasts. We can even find one hiding in a mining tunnel next to Selia. You’ve also gotta think about the occupants of Selia because from what we know it was comprised of nerds who studied invisibility sorceries, obviously they wouldn’t stand much of a chance against multiple falling stars. Which is why it’s stated Radahn ALONE, held Selia secure as he was the only one who had the strength to fight off the stars.
Don’t you think that conflict could have been for Radahn trying to hold back Sellia and their plans for the age of stars?
In my opinion, we don’t have much to suggest Radahn would be motivated to defend Sellia, especially once all the factions formed their own agendas
You’ve got to consider Radahns early life when talking about his motivation. From an early age Radahn had heard the tales of Godfrey crushing literal giants and how his father Radagon led a great golden host of knights. They were his idols and inspiration, he modelled his armour after Godfrey’s lion and was proud of his red hair for its heroic implication. It’s not too far fetched to say his dream was to become a hero. So when learning of the falling stars he was probably stoked to defend the Selia.
But yeah just a thought
@@arty7764 you forgot the part were both Godfrey and Radagon were conquerors, who waged wars against vassals of other gods and to uphold Golden Order. Radahn did that and went beyond, so i don't think it'd be a stretch if he tried to occupy Sellia, the name of it literally means Star.
@@vriska9001 yeah but then your forgetting why Radahn even went to Selia to begin with. He didn’t go to destroy it, he wasn’t there to occupy Selia or even take control. He went to Selia to study gravitational magic, all so he could never abandon his beloved but scrawny steed.
As for why he conquered the stars? Probably to outdo Radagon or Godfrey’s accomplishments, because by his time TLB was already completely conquered.
But this is just my speculation, hopefully dlc will provide more information on Radahns motives, and dig deeper into his character.
The last section about the dissolution of the family is really where it clicked for me. Amazing video, thanks for all the hard work. Really makes the game much more enjoyable to explore and learn about :)
I think the best analogy would be the most sucessfull children of a parent fighting to what to do with the house and using everything to prove why they are a better choice.
Idk I'd say ranni was more successful as well even morgot since he was the literal king
This video is exactly why I love lore videos. Listening to different interpretations and things I missed makes the story so much richer and fun to play. I even think it listening to lore fits into the world like “Oh, I’ve heard legends of this guy”
Personally, I believe that Malenia did not have a choice regarding releasing the Scarlet Rot. Gowry says something very specific during Millicent’s quest line:
“Since Malenia fought Radahn, and the great scarlet flower blossomed in Aeonia, I have dedicated myself to her.
And to the resplendence of the Order of Rot. The cycle of decay and rebirth.”
He described the process of Rot as one of decay, and more importantly: rebirth. If you look at the similarities between the two times we see Malenia release the Scarlet Aeonia, notice that one key element happens right before both: Malenia is dealt a fatal blow. During the trailer where we see the Battle of Aeonia, just before the Rot is released, Malenia goes to strike Radahn, and Radahn pierces her directly through her chest with what looks like her own sword. She is visibly bleeding heavily, sustaining a seemingly fatal blow and its at this moment in which the Scarlet Aeonia blooms. The second time in which we actively see Malenia bloom is during our fight with her. When we fight her, we attack her until she falls to the ground, our character, a hardened warrior turns away, direction their attention to the haligtree, thinking the battle over and won, Malenia seems all but dead, and this is when she speaks, we see the bud of the Scarlet Aeonia, and then as it flowers, Malenia: rising from the dead with renewed strength, her form changed, a cycle of death and rebirth. This is further reinforced by what Gowry asks us to do to Millicent at the end of her quest line:
“I ask that you side with the sisters and kill Millicent.
It must be done by your hand; no other.
Millicent trusts you, rather deeply in fact.
Sever that trust. Nurtured by betrayal, her bud will flower most vividly.”
Gowry says upon Millicent’s death, will she too blossom, her bud will flower most vividly may very well be literal, that when Malenia ascends to Godhood, Millicent too, shall be reborn. Noticing the wording of “Millicent TOO” implying that Malenia is being reborn, and after we drop Malenia’s first phase, her title changes, from Blade of Miquella, to Goddess of Rot, she died, was reborn, and ascended to Godhood in the process. I believe Malenia is not releasing the Scarlet Rot intentionally, she would not work so hard to purge herself of it if she planned on keeping it as a trump card, I believe instead that upon her death, her ability to hold it’s power back is lost, and it continues it’s cycle of death and rebirth, blooming, reviving Malenia, and wreaking untold havoc in the process. This explains why Malenia, a proud warrior, would end up activating such a dishonorable and ruinous power that she worked so hard to suppress to win a fight, she didn’t have a choice.
Oh shiiit, here we go! I have been waiting for this!
I think the order of events (and timing if we ever get a handle on that) is important here. Malenia wasn't just amassing power else she would have taken Godrick's Great Rune upon beating him. Unless something about the runes themselves prevents it that would also be prudent if Radahn was the sole target as she already beat Godrick anyway.
Two alternative motivations are that Malenia could sense an already-kidnapped Miquella underground and Radahn got in the way which seems unlikely to me because it implies she left the Haligtree basically undefended with Miquella already cocooned for Mohg to kidnap. Like the "breaking the Golden Order stagnation" motivation this also makes unleashing the Scarlet Rot a generally bad idea. Instead the more promising proposition I've read is that as the *Starscourge* Radahn was also blocking the Eclipse which Miquella was summoning to revive/kill Godwyn. This presents a more tangible aspect to Miquella's vision, one which Malenia would be duty-bound to enact as his Blade and also potentially time-sensitive enough to ultimately warrant the sacrifice of an entire subcontinent alongside her personal pride. The main catch I see is that it implies Team Miquella figured out they needed Radahn to die at fairly short notice while Team Ranni never did despite twiddling their thumbs with nothing better to do for however long it took for the Tarnished to arrive.
Side note: does the Japanese make it clear whether the region of Caelid is innately called "Aeonia" or whether both the swamp and the battle are named solely after Malenia's bloom? As in, "the swamp of _the_ Aeonia" rather than "the swamp region called Aeonia"? Machine translation returns "エオニアの沼" ("e-o-nia no numa") for both "swamp of Aoenia" and "swamp of the Aeonia". To my understanding this ambiguity also lead to the rather odd name "Attack on Titan" which is now understood to mean "the Attack Titan" instead.
Those are good thoughts! Regarding Miquella trying to trigger the eclipse, I think that idea has merit and slots in nicely to the situation as I've laid it out. Like you said, it does make Ranni issue a little bit funky. There is a way around that in the festival doesn't seem to occur very often, and that could be for celestial reasons that Radahn could only be defeated at a certain time. It doesn't totally answer it, but I think Rannia and crew knowing Radahn is a problem while also trying to find another way around it feels at least somewhat plausible.
I'm not sure about Aeonia, that's a great question.
@@LoreHunter The issue with Ranni is that we specifically need to talk to Jerren or Sellen in order to even figure out Radahn's relevance. Iji explicitly admits he didn't know and is quite embarrassed at this so they're not just "testing" us either. The best explanation I can come up with is that Miquella used some advanced magic-science to track the interference after the Eclipse ritual had already begun (adding even more to the time crunch) and that knowledge being mostly lost by the disastrous outcome of the battle of Aeonia itself. Meanwhile Ranni is looking for a lost underground city and has no direct indicator her progress is halted alongside the stars _at this point_ rather than, say, upon attempting to wield the Fingerslayer Blade which should by all means provide a tangible focus to do some magic-science divination of her own if the title of "Star"scourge truly wasn't enough.
In regard to Aeonia, the Japanese is pretty consistent in how it names both the swamp and battle, in that there's no real indication or equivalent to the definite article - "the Aeonia". From this, you can surmise that it's all attributed to Aeonia 'the region'; but I feel like it's still kind of a chicken and egg situation. "の" nominalises verbs and adjectives, and in the case of nouns, indicates a possessive - so you could say "The Swamp of Aeonia" in the same way you say "The Battle of Aeonia".
With "Attack on Titan" it nominalises "進撃" (attack) and compounds it with "巨人", literally making it "Titan of Attacking" (or indeed, "The Attack Titan"). I like to think that the translated title was stylistic Engrish that simply stuck (and actually adds a nice layer without really thinking about it).
@@Bobio What I'm getting at is the naming overlap between the Bloom of Scarlet Rot and a previously disconnected region in some distant province. At least in English the spell is _not_ explicitly phrased for geographical origin e.g. "Scarlet _of_ Aeonia" but the adjective use still exists anyway as in "Terra Magica" or the pop culture mythology of the "golden land".
It makes more sense for one of the Aeonias to be named after the other but the simple possessive does not clarify and I don't know any broader sources. For example if there was a recipe for "Aeonian roast meat" or a reference at the Lake of Rot things would be clearer but all occurrences of the term I know of are directly tied to Malenia's one specific bloom and then branch off into both the personal and the geographic aftermath.
@@Photoloss I like the thought that miquella figured it out earlier, but ranni would never reach out to anyone outside her circle for help because from the perspective of everyone else she died along with godwyn and she either didn't want to blow her cover OR thought that letting another demigod know her plans would muck it up. Hell, she didn't want ANYONE to know her true plans, she wanted to do it all completely on her own in the first place.
The Battle of Aeonia is like two siblings arguing over a toy that they both own together and ends with the younger one giving the older one permanent brain damage
Imagine a DLC where it adds a new ending, age of the unalloyed, it would be a ng+ ending only because you'll need a Miquella's needle to subdue Malenia in her second phase, like her poise has to broken to apply the needle, that would make her an npc, assist her in fighting sanguine nobles near the portal to Blood Palace, then you can have her as a summon to fight Mohg to reclaim Miquella and return him to the Haligtree how that would lead to his reawakening and the age of the unalloyed is beyond me, I can only think up to defeating Mohg with what we have in the game currently to work with
I was just thinking that an "age of the unalloyed" would be such a good thing to release in the dlc. I even thought of that exact name before seeing this, lol. nice to see someone whose brain works just like mine.
I think the more likely thing would be you enter miquellas mind through his cocoon and enter a dlc area, kinda like the ashes dlcs from Dark souls, where you fight the formless mother, and end up either allowing miquella to complete his transformation, or return him to the haligtree to begin its growth anew. After all, DS3’s dlcs had a happy ending, so it would follow that elden rings would as well
It would also be cool if it canonized the whole new game system, as your character being stuck in an infinite time loop saving the world but being forced back in time by an unseen force(possibly an outer god) feels appropriately From Soft (it’s also been my head cannon for the entire souls franchise lol, I always just assumed that was the implication until someone told me otherwise). It would also be fitting that the age of the unalloyed would be the ending to finally break this loop
Iirc you GIVE Malenia her needle back after fighting her; that’s why you get Miquella’s Needle and an ancient smithing stone from her flower if you give the golden needle to it
@@Hello-lf1xs Correct. I assumed that she took out or the needle had broke and caused her scarlet rot to bloom during radhan's battle. It makes a lot of sense.
I know it's gone into in much detail, but it always bothers me when people just say that Radahn was a loyal hound of the Golden order... when he's a Carian who fought and was repelled from Leyndall by Morgot. Like, the idea that he loved Godfrey (who was banished by queen Marika of the Golden order) means that he must have been ride or die for the Golden order? I feel it's clear that when it says he fought the stars, it meant he defended Sellia from the fallingstar beasts in his youth. By the time Ranni puts her plan into motion (that she did at some level work with her brother rykard for) and the shattering happens, Radahn is left a feral husk who couldn't alter the stars again for her if he wanted to. I'm not saying he was in on the plot, but it just always seems weird that people completely ignore his status as a member of the Carian Royal line, not the Leyndall. There's also so little in the way of statements from other characters to connect him- Ranni doesnt address him besides that he's got to go so the stars can move again. The closest thing we have is Jerren, a CARIAN Knight loyal to Radahn, trying to bring his fight to an end. I could be missing somethings and would love to hear them, but in terms of him being some Golden order fanatic, I just don't actually see anything to really suggest that?
If all the stuff I mention didn’t do it for you, it might come down to a difference in interpretation. See my pinned comment about Morgott, and also keep an eye out for a follow-up where I think I’ll tie up a few of these loose ends.
@@LoreHunter hey, just wanted to say the video was absolutely fantastic. I really appreciate what folks like you and all the other souls community loreheads do. I do think the "Morgott Attacks Radahn and defends Leyndall" is one of the biggest things where we get a full painting of an outright interaction, but we're just kind of left to our own devices to give more context. Your pinned comment is good, and it's just something I wonder if we'll ever get more context for with DLC. Morgott, to me, really fits the role of "Defender of the Status Quo" to a T, and I mean that in the most heroic, and pitiable, admirable and depressing ways. Intentionally oxymoronic, even. If there's one character who's praises go unsung and role goes unnoticed, it's him.
Great analysis, I think it’s the most solid interpretation given the lore we have
I know it's just headcanon, but I do like to think that Malaenia knew that Miquella was taken towards Caelid, without knowing exactly where. It adds a level of desperation to her fighting Radahn, because it puts her in even more of a corner.
There are several details I don't really get with that theory: a) why was Miquella undefended in the first place while the Haligtree army was strong enough to march on the Redmanes and seemingly had nothing better to do, b) how would they track him all the way to Caelid _without_ finding the ghost or the portal in the Consecrated Snowfield when said portal likely was used in the kidnapping to begin with and c) what _utter braindead madness_ would compel Malenia, self-proclaimed Blade of Miquella, to unleash the Scarlet Rot at full unrestrained power *in close proximity to her captive and vulnerable brother?!?* I can totally see her justifying such means by duty, personal loss or sheer desperation but _not_ when putting Miquella directly in harm's way.
@@Photoloss Yeah. Like I said, It's just a headcanon for more ~ drama ~ but re the points you bring up, I can square some of it.
a) That's an ongoing mystery bc we know Mohg snatched him during the shattering at some point (I could see it happening if Malenia's army was in caelid, which of course disproves my headcanon)
b) I genuinely do not know how much the characters in the world can interact with portals/ghosts/flavor messages vs how much those things operate as a gameplay conceit.
c) Eh. If it's the first time she did it she might not know what it would do.
Again, it's just me doing melodrama for fun.
@@OptimisticAudience If Malenia wasn't sure what would happen (and remember her army was mostly defeated at that point) that's an even more compelling point against unleashing the Scarlet Rot without explicit confirmation that Miquella was either prepared to immediately deal with the fallout or safe well away from her. Which he was but had she known that she wouldn't have had a reason to invade Caelid on the surface when one of the elevators was directly on the way there.
So the way to make it work is for Malenia to obtain proof Miquella is not in Caelid _after_ invading there but _not_ being informed Radahn had nothing to do with the kidnapping. Sacrificing herself in the hope of taking the kidnapper down with her and allowing Miquella to escape on his own down the line does make sense.
@@OptimisticAudience iirc Mohg kidnapped Miquella AFTER his sister went to war
@@Photoloss a) Miquella may not have been undefended. The game shows that Mohg could materialise from droplets of blood. Perhaps he used similar tricks in the kidnapping.
b)They may not have known about the portal in the snowfield. They would otherwise have closed it if they wished to control the Grand Lift of Rold as the only way of traffic into the Haligtree.
c)Grief and desperation. Millicent's storyline shows that the Rot grows stronger when somebody is angry or sad. Though I think of Malenia as a brutal, cold warrior with little to no compassion and an easy aptitude for killing, if it's anything that could break her it would be Miquella's loss. It's implied anyway that she wasn't in control when she released the rot, as she ordinarily absolutely hated it (Gowry's dialogue). It could be that Radahn was turning the tide of the battle in his favour with copious amounts of sorcery and she- being probably the superior melee combatant- realised that it was do or die as well.
Damn this whole video is 100% on point. Good job bro
thank you for making unique content like this!
yes finally someone gets that malenia wasn't the villain but was trying to fight for change. in the haligtree area you can see demi humans and other creatures who were forsaken by the golden order but here they are excepted. i believe honestly that Rahadhan was far more of the villain in this scenario and to see her brother realize his vision she sacrificed everything
There's another reason why Malenia tried to defeat Radahn. I believe it also had to do with Miquella's plan to bring about the Eclipse and revive Godwyn. We know from lore and item descriptions that Godwyn and Miquella were close and shared similar goals. When Godwyn got killed on the Night of the Black Knives, Miquella came up with a plan to have the moon swallow the sun. He believed that the Eclipse could return life to souless demigods. With Radahn having sealed away fate itself by halting the stars with his gravity, he would need to be eliminated so Miquella can bring about the Eclipse to resurrect Godwyn and with Radahn out of the way, the biggest threat towards Miquella's plan for his new order and curing Malenia of her Scarlet Rot would be dealt with. Though we know what happens next. Malenia ultimately failed in killing Radahn so fate is still halted and it just so happened that Mohg ripped Miquella out of his Haligtree before the tree reached its true potential and before it grew Miquella into a full blown god which also prevented him from curing his sister. This lead to his Eclipse plan being ruined and Godwyn being forever stuck as an abomination still spreading death to all of the Lands Between.
I hope if elden rings 2 happen we could revive godwyn and have him as a partner to stop outer gods influence
Great video. Passing the torch, changing of ages, and dissolution of family are all themes GRRM has explored at length in his writing. I think the collaboration of GRRM and Miyazaki has created a timeless and unforgettable masterpiece. The level of depth and analysis in the story, history, and archaeology that we are still seeing almost a year after Elden Ring’s release speak to that.
Demi-God-damn excellent video!
A lot of people seem to believe that Radahn's conquest of the stars was done as an act of self defense and that he arrested the movement of the stars to protect the lands between from space monsters. However the telescope item description pretty much tells us that he did it at behest of the golden order, so that the stars no longer guide the fates of carian royals and the astrologers. Also the starscourge greatswords ash of war is named starcaller cry which is used to pull enemies together as per its description, so this was no act of self defense. This is one of the major reason why people call him a chad and hate on Malenia, but in reality radahn holding the fates in stasis was way worse.
Malenia is called too prideful to admit defeat, however i don't agree with this. I'd say it's the complete opposite. She valued her duty as the Blade of Miquella more than on her own pride and her belief in Miquella's vision were firm until the end. Obviously the rot wrecked caelid, but in her mind it felt necessary to end the current regime. I'd say the twins would have very likely won the war if it wasn't for Mohg abducting Miquella. Alas there was no Victor in the shattering leading to abandonment by the greater will.
Both fascinating characters end of the day, however I prefer Malenia's story as more powerful compared to any other demigod.
Unless it's more clear in Japanese the Telescope description only states causality not intent. Between Astel's lore, the utterly obliterated and starless third Eternal City and Sellia having close ties to that culture the public version of Radahn defending not himself but his (secondary) home town and the people who helped him keep Leonard checks out. Of course challenging _the stars_ in combat instead of pursuing a more ...reasonable solution also comes down to his hunger for glory and idolisation of Godfrey(+Radagon but he chose the non-violent option).
Not that that precludes _someone else_ in the Golden Order (*cough* Marika *cough*) manipulating Radahn for their own ends by using Sellia as a convenient excuse.
"Obviously the rot wrecked caelid, but in her mind it felt necessary to end the current regime"
What a way to handwave the devastation of an entire region and its people permanently, all while its Radahn's men who choose to be selfless and hold back the Rot rather than flee or seek revenge. If they didn't do that, then Malenia's actions would've likely took over most of the Lands Between by the time the MC joined in.
''The Starscourge Conflict
Radahn alone holds Sellia secure
And stands tall, to shatter the stars''
Literally one Sword Monument disperses all your theorising bullshit. Radahn was a selfless hero. He's Miyazaki's favourite boss too, so cope.
@@TheStraightestWhitest Please refrain from inflammatory remarks.
And while I can't speak for the Japanese version the wording of the English you posted is not at all clear, even ignoring the possibility of an unreliable narrator erecting that monument as propaganda. To "hold Sellia secure" can be interpreted as a purely military term, and unlike "defending" it actually makes that interpretation _more_ likely as what we see from "the stars" involves very little invading or infiltrating and a whole lot of indiscriminate mass destruction. Not to mention how "to shatter the stars" is a far more aggressive phrasing than "holding them back" or "repelling invaders".
For what it's worth I personally do believe Radahn's core motivation was selflessly protecting his home/childhood town while his chosen method may have been distorted by his idolisation of warriors/his hunger for glory, or manipulation by Alabaster Lords and/or Marika.
@@Photoloss If we use the logic of the unreliable narrator, then all of this is moot anyway since it can all be propaganda. At a certain point you kinda have to take things at face value as the developer's intent unless it comes from characters who are blatantly biased like White Mask Varre or the Two Fingers.
The take on Radahn. Yes. That was truly insightful. Thank you.
Agreed, it's more nuanced than just positives
Great video!
Fantastic video!!
Great video. In particular, I agree that Radahn's attachment to Leonard is to show that a part of him still clings to his past, and the way things were. This definitely shows a parallel between Radahn and the likes of Morgott and Radagon, who support the Erdtree and the Golden Order out of a deep desire to preserve the status quo. However, I don't believe it was necessarily the Golden Order that Radahn stood for. As I interpret his motives, he held back the stars entirely for Ranni's sake, not only to allow her to defy her fate, but also to uphold her Order.
"I would keep them far from the earth beneath our feet. [...] Life, and souls, and order are bound tightly together, but I would have them at great remove," she says. Perhaps this is exactly what Radahn was attempting to do by halting the movement of the celestial bodies.
Thus, Radahn's relationship with Ranni mirrors Malenia's relationship with Miquella, and their duel is to decide whether the Order of Unalloyed Gold or the Order of the Stars will replace the Golden Order. Just an idea!
There is a read of this where it benefits Ranni to have time to tread her path that I can appreciate. At the end of the day Radahn's feelings toward his fellow Carians is not really explored so there is room to put in multiple ideas and I think this is a pretty interesting one that I hadn't considered as a mirror to Miquella/Malenia that you describe. Thanks for sharing!
This comment mirrors my thoughts on the subject. I think there’s enough in game evidence to show that radahn was helping ranni by holding the stars and saving selia, not because he was a golden order stooge who feared change.
I think ranni needed her fate halted in order to make her move behind the scenes, but radahn got poisoned in his battle and lost his mind keeping him from releasing the stars for the next part of the plan
My question is why were ranni’s Ally’s attacked by black knife assassins? I’ve yet to find a solid answer in game explaining why they turned on ranni after working with her for so long.
@@Darkwing709 I think Ranni’s men being assassinated by the Black Knife assassins makes Marika’s hand in the Knight of Black knives even more likely. There’s already plenty of lore that connects Marika to both Nokron and the Black Knife assassins (with even their own armor presuming their relation). I still believe that Marika, having become disillusioned with the Golden Order, and wanting to unshackle herself and the Land’s between from the influence of the Greater Will, used Ranni’s ambition to steer her into to stealing the Rune of Death in order to kill her body, while Marika’s own agents (the Black Knife assassins) used it to kill Godwyn’s soul. This way, Marika had a scapegoat for the assassination in Ranni, and it explains why Maliketh was “betrayed” by Marika.
I think this is further supported by the Leader of the Black Knife assassins is imprisoned in an Evergail in Ranni’s own territory atop the plateau in Liurnia. Although we are led to believe by Rodgier that they are associated with Ranni, there are many context clues that imply that they are actually not in the best terms (to say the least). It’s possible that the assassins going after Ranni’s squad may just be Marika tying up loose ends.
@@adams7689 YOOOO! This has been my theory the entire TIME. Queen marika clearly has no issue with sacrificing her offspring or “loved ones” to push her goal for change. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if the black knives attacked ranni’s crew out of retaliation.
@@Darkwing709 This is 100% the case between Radahn and Ranni, because Iji tells us that the Redmanes also came to him for armaments and that they are more or less allied with the Carians, or at least friendly with them. They also share magic just like Radahn himself did. I think Radahn helped Ranni, but when he got nuked by the Rot God he was no longer capable of remembering when he should let go. Ranni, Radahn and Rykard all seemed to be closely bound to me. Rykard conspired with her and agreed to take the blame for what Ranni did to the point of agreeing to direct Maliketh his way in case he ever found out who stole Death, because with the Blasphemous Shards he could stave off the immortality severing Destined Death, allowing his serpent fused form to have a big advantage being immortal. He'd have probably still gotten his shit destroyed, even the two items describing it mention that it'd be a desperate last resort, but that just shows all the more that there was a strong kinship between them for him to take that risk for Ranni.
And considering Rykard has portraits of Radahn all over the place, it's another hint that the two were close. And why would he be close with the man who purposefully fucked up his and their sister's plans?
So yeah I'm pretty damn sure that Radahn kept the stars at bay in part to buy Ranni time. And it was also to protect Sellia, the place where they all learned Sorcery. The Sword Monument near his festival states outright that he saved Sellia by challenging the stars, so that one is beyond speculation.
Your friend Bob's voice and reading out is on point
bro Bob sounds amazing holy shit that caught me off guard. Professional. Badass. Great work Bob.
I really appreciate this video, Miyazaki's games are often a nuanced look into lands and people's steeped in unfortunate circumstances and shades of grey. So I was very confused by this urge to see Radahn as inherently honorable when that isn't the lens the game uses while actually looking at anyone's motivations.
Well said.
Radahn's rune is burning to resist the scarlet rot, and his soldiers are using fire to resist the scarlet rot in caelid. It's like radahn is still connected to his soldiers in some way.
This was really enlightening thank you
I'm hooked on your content now lol
My favorite theory on this is that Miquella needed the eclipse to travel to the Helphen and revive Godwyn’s soul. The eclipse was stopped by Radahn because of his starscourge. Melania needed him dead at all costs before the eclipse or else Miquella would miss his opportunity to revive godwyn.
Sounds pretty cool but why would Miquella need Godwyn?
@@thanus6636
I don't know if Miquella needed to revive Godwyn to fulfil his ambitions, but he definitely seemed to have want to do it regardless.
We know Miquella was saddened at the fate of Godwyn and developed techniques used to this day to hunt those who live in death..
The Eclipse Crest Greatshield calls The Eclipse as the guardian of soulless demigods, and the ghost at the top of Castle Sol laments their rituals failed to summon an eclipse, thus Miquellas's comrade will remain soulless.
@@thanus6636 the comment before mine explains it so well, and also, godwyn was just that cool dude that everyone loved. It’s wide noted tragedy that he was killed the way he was, Miquella could have aspired to help him simply from his own character
@@thanus6636 There are statues of Godwyn with Miquella and Malenia at the Haligtree. It seems the three were very, very close. And it's referenced in item descriptions that Miquella and Malenia wanted to give Godwyn true death (instead of the zombie he is), and they can't do that while the stars are stopped apparently. Also it is speculated through item descriptions that Miquella needs the flow of time to continue so his vision of the Haligtree Order can be fulfileld. Another reason Malenia would venture to war with Radahn.
It’s somewhat unclear the timeline of some events. While this could be true, it’s also just as likely that by the battle of aeonia Miquella has already been kidnapped by Mohg and Malenia went to Caelid looking for him, not realizing he was taken below Caelid not Caelid itself.
I do like this theory a lot. It explains so much, but i do still have three points that i am not fully convinced of:
1. Why is there an abductor virgin ( and a special one at that) in redmane castle? That plus jerren being somewhat willing to help ranni always made me think that the three children of renala were still working together. However that seems weird when you consider radahn to be a follower of the golden order.
2. I still dont think malenia was truly aware of how powerful she was. Consider the first bloom: We find the flower in a small room within the roots of the haligtree. Not only is the flower small but it was also a controlled environment, especially if miquella was still around at that point. S im not sure she was aware how dire the consequences would truly be. I still think she just intended to kill radahn, meanwhile the corruption of all of caelid was something she didnt see coming.
3. Less important, but how do we know radahn had to keep "one arm behind his back" to hold back the stars? Everyone seems to agree it nerfed him heavily but i still dont understand where this comes from. Couldnt it have also been a spell he cast once and then didnt have to conciously hold up?
I think you presented your arguement very coherent and well. I am impressed at how much deep psychological storytelling is hidden in these games and how one can draw from it.
Sublime takes. Agree all throughout!
Just wanted to throw this in there…I think radahn halted the stars not to maintain the golden order, but actually to help ranni.
Hear me out…I think radahn saved selia because the town was DEEPLY connected to the nox people and the conspiracy against the order which was headed by ranni. Her people and radahns people were still in good standing with each other LONG after the shattering as if they were still in cahoots.
My personal theory is that radahn was helping ranni at first, but after his fight with malenia, he was turned into a shell that no longer had the ability to think and release the stars to push the plan forward.
Halting the stars also halts the influence of Golden Order as its agents cannot arrive to Lands Between.
That allowed Ranni to prepare for the coming of her Two Fingers.
This is supported by Jarren's dialogue about Ranni and Iji, I think they were very much allied.
@@chrisp.9380 Indeed. It's propsterous to think a guy who couldn't abandone his horse would fight his family.
@@chrisp.9380 Yeah the Carians and Redmanes were allied, or at least friendly with each other. Iji has dialogue about it too I think, about how the Redmanes came to him for arms too. They traded sorceries and arms. And Rykard seems close to Radahn. I doubt that'd be the case if Radahn was fucking up his and their sister's plans. No, Radahn was in on it for sure. It's kinda wholesome. All of them are weird, but they all worked together as siblings. One was an obsessed horse lover who looked at the stars and went ''If they're so powerful, why won't they fight me?!'', one let a snake eat him and then started eating other people because that's something you do I guess, and one killed and burned her own body and put her soul into a doll so she wouldn't get fiddle-diddled on the inside by pervy space deities, but they all had a common goal and worked together as siblings to achieve it.
Of course, we end up killing two of them and marrying one. Because Miyazaki and Martin are weird as shit.
Makes you wonder if Radahn Morgott and Mohg were working together to eliminate Miquella
Radahn lures Malenia to meet in war to distract Malenia from guarding/defending Miquela.
While Radahn and Malenia engage in the war Mohg captures Miquela
Or Malenia is pursuing Mohg and Radahn meets her in combat.
The devs need to shed some light on this I sense a new HBO series
Lets go, been waiting on a deep dive on this battle!
The skyrim music is a nice nostalgic touch. Great video
I think Radhan didn't freeze the stars only because of his horse, but because of the sheer horrific creatures from them, like the Void Born Creatures such Astel and and the Fallingstar Beasts. Radhan was actually holding those star to avoid falling into the realm.
He should've dropped it in the Haligtree and nothing of value would've been lost.
@@bcf1237 Jesus you incels are so sensitive
I think Malenia only met Radahn in battle in Caelid because she was searching for Miquella (the bloom took place almost directly above Mohgwyn Palace), Miquella was probably kidnapped by Mohg very early into the Shattering War, and Mohg probably took him during the 1st Defense of Leyndell.
Malenia and Miquella are likely allies of Leyndell, evidence being there are the dooting envoys in the Royal Capital, her journey south must pass through Leyndell yet they never fought, and Malenia & Radahn's conflict was the last of the Shattering War.
From Kristoff's ash, we know the invading force in the 1st Defense was Godrick (&Godefroy). Yet according to the Sword Monuments, there were traces of "bloody conspiracy" during the 1st Defense of Leyndell. Malenia could have been tricked by Mohg to help defend Leyndell (it seems Morgott wasn't active/present in the 1st Defense because otherwise Leyndell wouldn't need Malenia if the Fell Omen had been around) and left Miquella unguarded in the haligtree, giving Mohg the opportunity to put his scheme into action.
I like how there is Skyrim music in the background on chapter 2 stakes 👍🏻
Enjoyed this video: a labor of love.
The Battle of Aeonia was simply two demigods fighting against the outer gods, but they ended up destroying one another. Malenia wanted Miquella to find a way to stop the outer gods from interfering via Unalloyed Gold and the Needles. Radahn thought it could be done by brute force and literally stopping the stars (and any outside influence/outer gods lurking beyond). If Radahn lost, the stars would continue their course and the outer gods beyond could directly influence the Lands-Between. If Malenia lost, the Golden Order would be powerless to stop the Scarlet Rot and it could spread to consume more than just Caelid. The irony is that had they known each other's real goal, they would have been the most natural of allies. Radahn was strong and learned while Malenia was devoted and unbreakable. They could have fought the outer gods, the ones outside and the ones already in the Lands-Between, side by side and won.
how ironic
Like with any great conflict decided by two great champions, often the champions embody the best, and worst, of both sides. They were both desperate, and extraordinary.
Hey new sub here Lore Hunter. I'd also like to add a few things on Radahn. I believe he was part of the Golden Order just like every single demigod before the shattering. They all had thrones in Leyndell except for the omen twins. Now we do know from the Telescope item description that fate written in the night sky wee fettered by the golden order. This is pretty much a direct reference to Radahn. However I think he turned his back on the golden order after the shattering broke out.
I think secretly he might have known Ranni's plans for bringing about her age of stars and also punished the academy by locking away the stars so that could no longer study the primeval current. I think Radahn had some good bond with Rykard as well since he sent his iron virgins to combat the cleanrot knights though it doesn't seem to have worked out as intended. In the abandoned cave you could see 2 cleanrots have demolished 8-9 of rykard's goons. I feel his conquest of the stars was done for noble reasons but the consequences were dire and ultimately made him a target which would bring about his downfall.
I remember hearing something else that also sounded pretty convincing which was that miquela, who has the most people coveting him also has the bewitching branch item description which forces loyalty, which means he might be controlling melenia and Mogg, but Mog goes too far in his devotion and kidnaps miquela, which melenia thinking the perpetrator was rodahn goes out and attacks him
I know I'm 3 months late but I always believed that the whole reason they fought was due to the whisperings of Mohg. I know GRRM didn't write this but it certainly takes inspiration from the types of characters he writes. Mohg needs Miquella but he knows that in a 1v1 Melania would more than likely floor him, he also knows that even if he won there's still Radahn to overcome, he then in one way or another forces a confrontation between the two knowing it would 1, leave Miquella unattended and undefended, 2, would take out at least one of the two demigods and all while remaining in the shadows.
I've said it in other videos and I know this will never be a thing but I would've loved to have supported Miquella. We could find a way to get Miquella back to the Haligtree and restore his Unalloyed order putting him on the throne. Out of everyone, he is the most deserving of "winning" our of the demigods.
I'm late but here's a point to consider for whether or not Malenia knew she would bloom. I get the feeling she did. When you look at where her sword (that was consecrated to avoid the rot) went in the video where she stabs Radahn her sword also pierces her body and causes her to bleed. What happens there is she also stabbed and snapped the Unalloyed Gold Needle you find in the game. The reason I think that's where the needle is is because when you give Millicent the needle in the game her hand hovers over the same spot on her body where Malenia's sword pierced her chest in the video.
Paranoid Android is your channel theme song?
That’s perfection. 🙌🏼
one of mogh's horns pierces one of his eyes, which i feel like lends some more credulity to the blood star being the formless mother
Excellent and convincing video! This pulled together a lot of elements for me.
There is one issue that sticks out to me, though: if Radahn's motives are as you laid out, then I feel like he and Morgott should be natural allies, as Morgott seems to have the same kind of conservative reaction to change as Radahn does. The opening cinematic, however, seems to show Morgott fighting Radahn (or at least one of his soldiers), presumably when Radahn (or his soldiers) are besieging Leyndell. Why would Radahn hold Leyndell under siege if he and Morgott basically want the same thing?
I’ve had the same thought, and although it’s all in the speculative realm here are a few thoughts I had that basically all come down to the fact that trust was low and ambitions high.
None of them trusted one another due to the mysterious circumstances of everything that happened, and Morgott is characterized as being perhaps the most critical of his kin having ambitions or motives in this situation.
Radahn wants to maintain the status quo, but he also has the ambition to be like his idols and take action, where Morgott seems to be acting as a steward awaiting the GW and/or Marika.
I see room for them to have a similar stance on the Golden Order while also distrusting one another and having conflicting approaches.
@@LoreHunter I can see that making sense. Thank you!
@@LoreHunter Yea I agree, Morgott himself is also corrupted from the mad taint (He has a great rune). And what i considered is that Radahn took it upon himself to become the new Elden Lord to continue what Godfrey and Radagon had maintained, but Morgott took it as Radahn fighting over the throne like the others. Morgott probably thought anybody who gains from this is a culprit to the conspiracy. It sounds like Radahn was driven mad in his attempt to maintain the current era of both his idol and his father, but Morgott was even more stagnant. He simply wanted nothing to happen until Marika returned (which would never happen).
Basically, Radahn was like "Mom and Dad are gone, now I'm the boss!" and Morgot was like "Nobody is touching the throne until Mom returns!"
@@terminalarray1047 I would argue, that maybe Morgott was actually waiting for the return of Godfrey specifically.
If Godfrey had showed up early enough, I am sure he would have let him past.
Godfrey mourns Morgotts death, so they seem to have a better relationship than most of the rest of the family tree.
That would make Morgotts story even more of a delicious tragedy.
Godfrey showing up too late to take his place and that ending in his son dead, who only wanted to defend the throne for him.
Also, Morgott conjures up an image of Godfrey to defend the Erdtree Sanctuary. It seems to me, he was pretty clear on who he viewed as a figure of authority.
It could be something as simple as Radahn didn't even know Morgott and he insulted him. The Omens are imprisoned away and never to be made public so it's not unreasonable to assume Radahn wouldn't even know of them, especially since he wasn't Marika's son.
If Radahn saved Selia by halting the stars then I wonder why it wasn’t destroyed after we defeat him
He needs to do a video on this
Bro, Vamos!
Excellent video! Also - do you also make Necromunda content? If so, big fan of that channel too!
I think it's worth noting, as I've just noticed it, that as Malenia impales Radahn, she also impales herself. You can see blood pouring down from where the blade is closest to her.
I’ve also heard theories that Radahn was working with Ranni, just as Rykard was. The only reason Ranni needed him killed was because he was no longer able to release the stars again, due to being driven mad by the rot.
Probably helps that she wouldn’t have to see her brother in such a sorry state any longer as well. She gave Rykard a way of maybe fending off Maliketh with the blasphemous claw, so it follows that she’d want to help her other brother out of his misery
100% This is the case. Iji tells us that the Redmanes came to him for weaponry too, and that they often dealt with the Carians for sorcery and weaponry. They seemed friendly with each other. And considering Rykard is allied with Ranni and that he's got portraits of Radahn all over his mansion, I very much think that they were working together all three of them. After all, why have portraits of the guy who is actively fucking up you and your sister's plans?
Ranni needed time free of the interference of space. Radahn gave her that time on top of protecting Sellia by halting the stars. The problem was that Malenia's Outer God turbo STDs gave him stage Biden dementia, so he kinda forgot that he also had to let the stars go when she was ready.
@@TheStraightestWhitest 💀💀
Ur friend Bob woke me up from a deep slumber, listening to a playlist of Elden ring lore. Thought it was Christopher Lee haha
This is the best explanation I have ever heard. I've been extremely confused playing all of this. Where is the backstory? Did I miss about 100 videos somewhere? I thought things would be better explained as to why things were happening. The reason why I'm asked to do all these things. I still have extremely little understanding, but after watching this, there's a rather large piece of it that's now understood. I GREATLY appreciate the clear cut effort you put into this. I'm very genuine when I say thank you for this.
On a lighter note, now I have videos to watch that will answer the million and 1 questions I have that even the game hasn't supplied!
Out of these two, Malenia had more of a happy/bittersweet ending than Radahn.
Idk man, Malenia would probably be real upset when she found out what happened to Miquella. All that she and her brother fought for was ruined when Mogh took him away, and it happened while Malenia was out cold too.
Radahn sounds like the type of guy to think his fate is fitting enough for a warrior, even though he'd definitely rather not be an insane husk. The redmanes definitely seem to have a self sacrificial mentality to them, seeing as they still stand in Caelid fighting the rot, and I think it's likely Radahn was like that as well.
@@Vini-zv3lr That’s why I lean towards bittersweet. She got back her sense of self and dignity at the end but her brother….. that’s another story.
True, because you can't kill her.
Even if you defeat her, her flower remains and is interactable, implying Malenia will be reborn one day, just like Millicent would, according to Gowry at least.
It’s sad because now she’ll have to live with the horror of all that she’s lost, but at least she can make her own choices now without the influence of the rot.
Tbh the perfect ending to her story, we uphold Millicent’s dying wish and end up saving both Malenia and Millicent.
@@shagarumedic Nah fuck that. I'll kill her when she comes back.
I just can't fully accept the theory that Radahn was a follower of the Golden Order. Why would he be so protective of Sellia, a Nox colony? The same Nox who were sworn enemies of the GO? Why is Jerren, arguably the closest person to Radahn, so happy that Ranni's fate can continue after the festival? Why is he featured as a painting in the Volcano Manor of all places? Knowing his convictions I find it impossible to believe that Rykard would feature Radahn's portrait out of sheer brotherly love despite being an enforcer for the GO. Idk if his idolatry of Godfrey alone is convincing enough to me.
EDIT: I've finished the video and I love how you conceptualize Elden Ring as a cosmic level family drama, because it most certainly is. Great conclusion to the video.
I like the theory that part of why Radan halted the stars was to help Ranny escape her fate as prescribed by her empyrean body, and that the plan was for Radan to unhalt her fate but that got pushed back by the shattering war. Some evidence of this is that in no other point do the members of one branch of the family come to blows with each other to my knowledge. Even Margot does not say anything about Mog and they both seem to have put defenses around the three fingers. The other piece of evidence I have off the top of my head was Ranny's servants supplying Radans army. Radans right hand man is also both on good terms with Ranny and owes her a favor.
AWESOME VID
Radahn makes me think of that Dylan Thomas poem. Kinda always figured there'd be another take on him than Giga Chad horse boy. Personally Im waiting to find out a lot of the Miquella lore is sarcastic as well. My personal theory is that he's one whole reference to Griffith from Berzerk and that he's always had a subtle malevolent streak. Not only that but he's still gonna come out of that cocoon like "Mohg's wings are nice but I want some too"
I just think the location of Mohg's palace is too convenient. It might have been that Malenia and Radahn had their differences but remained civil, and that instead it was Miquela's disappearance with all traces leading to Caelid that tipped everything past its breaking point beyond repair. Malenia very clearly marched all the way to Caelid, making her the aggressor. I wouldn't be surprised if Radahn tried reasoning with her to the very end, neither one understanding that Mohg even exists, much less was the one to take Miquela. If Radahn was so adamant about fighting change, I imagine he was also fighting to maintain peace with his siblings who very well seemed to have all genuinely loved each other.
I find it completely baffling just how much attention to detail has gone into this game…. Just you mentioning Radahns helm blew my mind! How clever
Great video
Hilarious to me that Malenia fans and Radahn fans most likely have more beef than Radahn and Malenia did.
I would like to add in favor of Malenia that if you really think about it, if Miquella could stop the Scarlet Rot in Malenia, if he won the war he could also eventually sanify Caelid after the catastrophic event, so It could have been a calculated risk to let loose of the Scarlet Rot. A smaller sacrifice than what in the end happened to the whole area
That is a good point.
Addind that when Malenia bloomed thare was a small area affected.
Flash thought: "Radhan alone holds Sellia secure, he stands tall to shatter the stars". We take for granted Radhan was pro-Golden Order. But we have the scene in which Morgott attacks him, presumebly to defend the capital. Also Sellia is linked to the Nox, and the Eternal Cities were fell by stars (like Astel, presumebly sent by Greater Will, angry with the Nox). What if this happened at the same time? While GWill sunk the other cities, Raddy stopped the assault directed to Sellia?
When Malenia impales Radahn, her sword also plunges into her chest/shoulder as well. This pain/wound/blood mightve been the catalyst for her to bloom, such as when we do enough damage to her in our fight, she also blooms
What did Malenia whispered to Radahn?
"I am Malenia, blade of Miquella"
Radahn: Oh Leonard, we're gonna be besties forever! We're gonna ride the green plains, watch the sun set, and see the stars hover unblinkingly in abnormal stasis! Together, ol' buddy!
Leonard: K... Killll... Meeee....
Radahn: Awwww I love you too big guy!
Great video. I think the fight against Outer Wills is exactly the type of narrative structure they would use for building a world like this. And the family metaphor seems very George RR Martin.
I think this also fits very nicely into Ranni the Witch's Age of Stars story and into possible DLC.
This theory may already exist, but I think the reason the unalloyed needle can only be used in the boss arena of Dragonlord Placidusax is because the needle is to stop the interference of the Outer Gods, specifically the Greater Will, and Placidusax is said to be waiting for his Outer God to return. Kinda hard to stop the needle being used if there's no one there to stop it.
Also, Placidusax reminds me of the Two Fingers in the last part of the game.