OLD SCHOOL SHOWER FAILURE --- DON'T DO THIS!!!
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- Опубликовано: 5 фев 2025
- Many of us tile installers recognize old tried and true methods, or old school techniques, as better than the newer and easier methods used today. But this shower is one example of how an old method, such as a lead shower pan, may not be better. No matter what method is used, if it is not executed properly failures will occur. Most of these failures happen from an installer who does not have the experience or knowledge of past failures. When one can see what went wrong in the past, it is a lot easier to see what is going to occur in the future and foresee any issues that may arise.
It is easy to just trust what others tell you or follow a manufacturers recommendation, but since every jobsite presents different circumstances it is difficult to account for small variations that can cause problems. The ability to know what to do in those instances only comes from experience or asking someone who has dealt with that particular problem.
This is why I make my videos, to share these experiences with you so you can gain valuable knowledge to better help you make good decisions when doing your tile work.
22 yrs in the tile trade in Florida an Tennessee an never have heard of a lead or copper pan. Learn something new everyday.
Lead pans were used here (Tulsa) up into the mid 80s. I have torn out many showers that were built in the 30s to the 60s that had lead that looked like new. Late 70s we started seeing lead that rusted through (causing leaks)in a couple of years. By the Mid 80s I was tearing out lead that had rusted through in less than a year. I have done HUNDREDS of lead pan replacements. I don't know if the lead changed or the water changed, but SOMETHING changed. I never saw wood inside a curb until the late 80s. They used to be solid concrete. I still do them that way. I have never tiled a wood or styrofoam curb, but I have torn lots of them out.---- We also build shower seats out of concrete blocks. NEVER EVER had a problem with one.
“That could be copper, that’s a lot of copper”
“We are taking it”
I am old school was using lead in the 80s never used green board or any kind of sheet rock in the shower area that said we didn’t do all the waterproofing that is being done now but I have ripped out bathrooms that were 60-70 years old that had no water damage in nyc with no regard to waterproofing
Isaac, what did you tell the customer before you started demolishing the shower? Did they want you to do that because you said they just wanted grout touched up.
Always great videos sir! You’ve helped me a ton on my shower renovation. I think I’m at the point where I need a quote on tile installation. I left a message at your office.
Hope your around when the next generation starts replacing your work
Dating this shower is interesting. Mastic's actually been around since the 1950s, and by extension tile on sheetrock, too. My personal belief is the lead pan might be super old, but in the 80s the original mud floated shower in the house might have been demo'd down to that last foot of wall and the pan, and just retiled over again with subway tile, mastic, and drywall.
Lead pans were pretty common in Texas once upon a time. I did an insurance job on a pan in Dallas many years ago , termite damage. The termites had actually eaten through the lead pan.
Ive demoed tons of led pans here in the southest houses from tue 50's to the late 70's. Always have a floated wall 1 inch plus. Typically the curb is brick and mud not wood they held up well. Typical failure was at the drain after 30 years plus
I have to say, the customer got what they paid for probably thirty years ago! We all know not everyone has a mud budget even though it’s the better job. Here on the East coast lead pans and double layer 3/8” wall board with mud cap was very common in the 60’s and70’s
I've done hundreds of showers and tubs like that. I started in 1976, about the time that tiling over sheetrock become popular. Back then they said that bucket glue was waterprooof. It ain't. BUT, Done right it will last until you get a leak. I'v done remodel tearouts that were sheetrocked and held up for 30 years. But any leak will ruin the sheetrock, even the moisture resistant sheetrock.
We used to see a lot of lead and lead copper up here in the north east until everyone switched to vinyl. Some up are using fiberglass but the build up is huge. Most now have switched to membranes or stainless steel for high end slab showers.
In the uk all ‘volume’ house builders tile over drywall or plasterboard as we call it.
This is a standard practice here and deemed acceptable so long as the correct adhesive is used and corners are sealed etc
I really appreciate your videos. I am licensed tile contractor in Washington state. I also am a videographer. If you ever have video questions or want to collab on something let me know.
Just wondering, since california has all the warning labels for cancer causing products, is this lead pan considered an illegal install back in the time it was installed?
I'm sure now it may be, just a thought
This lead pan, is a new one for me. Never seen one either; & kinda interesting to see though.....
Wonder if able to do some kind of solder joints for corners etc...to help seal🤷🏼♂️ Cool to see though the different ways ppl did water proofing back in the days😉
Can’t wait for next vid✌🏼
I may be wrong but don't think that job is from the 80's or 90's. I've demoed jobs in Detroit Michigan that had Lead pans in showers that were in houses from the 40's and 50's.
I would agree with you. The shower has characteristics of the 40s/50s. In that case, 70-80 years' usage would be a success rather than a failure. Outlived its lifetime significantly.
I'm a tile man since 1976 from Detroit and I tore out hundreds of these.
Not that bad. It lasted a long time. Your friend Sal has a video installing a copper pan.
Hey Isaac and everyone else. I asked this on an older video just a few minutes ago, but wanted to make sure that I got to your most recent stuff as that may be more visible to you. Can you tell me the name of the bag mud that you use to float your shower walls and the company that makes it? Can you also tell me the distributor that you get it from so that I can contact them and hopefully order some.? I'm in Portland, Oregon and I want to order a few bags and try your method of floating shower walls. My plan is to do what you do and build a fake enclosure that's not level or Plumb, and then use the stick method with the Redwood sticks and see if I can Plumb and level the whole thing.
Old school shit, done a lot of them around that time the same way, used green rock and that was the standard at the time with the builders I worked for at the time
hmm. now you guys make me wonder what mess awaits me for my downstairs shower. My wife complains of a smell, but i always chock it up to my teenager's dirty wet clothes, but deep in the back of my mind i know the shower isn't right. I had a tile come off the curb on the outside and I didn't like what i saw, so i caulked the hell out of it and looked the other way for now. Watching your videos so I can redo my upstairs bath, it needs it worse, but man. It's in a basement with 2 exterior walls so there's no telling how bad it really is until I rip it out. Thankfully all the tiles in the shower are intact, none are loose, grout is good, albeit I cannot get it clean to save my life!!!
Lead pans are required in New York from what I’ve read.
That led is thin compared to what was used here too and the pan was always in the curb not built to the the curb
Probably every tract home built in the last 40 years had green board showers. When you only warranty the house for ONE year...........
Mine did just redid the bathrooms, 22 year old house, no water damage luckily
Very easy demo 😆
It is possible to do an outside corner in lead: You weld or solder it.
Yes solder the joints!
Another case "That's how i have always done it and i have never had a problem." I doubt anyone thought that they were pulling a fast one. It's just one of the ways that things were done back then.
I thought they had Hardibacker back then. I used Hardibacker when I remodeled a bathroom in 2005 but used a plastic panels so I don't know how waterproof it actually is. I would like to tile on the Hardibacker.
@@MrNeptunebob They might have had hardi backer.
But either way. This is just how they did it back then. I have torn out dozens of tile on sheetrock showers. I have also torn out those lead pans.
Is that South Sac?
Michigan has almost all lead from the 40s. That lead is $50 scrap.
That would help explain what happened to Flint.
Tract home special from the 80's
This installation at the time 30 plus years ago was new and old technology coming together. 3/4 Plywood was even used as a backer at some point with a mud cap and mastic! I used a mud caps on Dorock and thin set installs were the Durock gets installed over the green board.
The lead pans back in the day were installed by the plumber. It was the plumber responsible to waterproof.
Could the lumber at the curb survived if the lumber was sloped into the pan as well as the tile and not just layed flat? No one will ever know! The structure of the curb needs to slope inward just like the floor if the liner is installed over the curb! This detail seems to be left out in all the You tube videos on shower curbs!
No one will ever know the exact reason why these two methods were done in this shower so let's be a little less critical!
Type 1 mastic dose have some waterproofing capabilities! So we can not knock that as well. Type 2 which is more of the yellow type adhesive did not hold up very well in dry or wet areas as you can tell from this video.
6:15 dude I am wearing a mask just watching this video on my iPad. 😂
Theoretically lead was forbidden to use in that time for construction. I guess this should be zinc sheets, which is used for roofing around the world, specially in Europe.
could just wash and reuse the tile
Lol
The lead is definitely a red flag to me! Lead poisoning!
There are tons of showers installed with lead pan!
@@davidribeca1745
Not anymore
@@dperry428
I wouldn't
I cant tell you how many of these i have ripped out !!
That's probably asbestos board. Some asbestos fibers (especially those used for wet areas) are hydrophobic and will not wash out of your clothing. Please wear proper PPE during demolition. The risk is small for Home Owner DIYers, but contractors that are exposed 40 hours a week are high risk. Tile, mastic, cement boards, and joint compound are the usual suspects.
Maybe if the homeowners paid attention to the caulk and the grout the last few years it would have been caught sooner
What an absolute mess!
Plumber installed it.
Plumber should be required to pull permit for shower waterproofing
It lasted 30+ years......
cool
This would make you feel like a god. Think about it, the shower gets destroyed as you pound away.
Don't get to shitty about it........that's what we did 35 years ago.
Never a hot mop though.
Its paint
California "float". Lol
Everywhere else; frame plum and cement board / or Hardie. Of course thinset, so yay something you do is normal.
And don't get me started on that hot mop thing they do in California. We use Schuler kerdi or any number of non-oil based product that are available in this decade.
The sheetrock turned to shitrock 😂
What happened to social distancing and masks? Disappointing.
I'm surprised how well that mastic and 2 layers of drywall worked. Window trim looks ok butted up against the tile, and I would have expected some wicking/dry rot. Lools like a late 70's/early-80s style with that gold tone. Lead worked for the Romans for thousands of years (but lots of lead poisoning - some say it might have been the cause of the collapse of their empire) - and many older cities still have lead piping
Get over the distancing issue.
Why are you scared of a virus with 1.4% fatality rate? For those under 40 the fatality rate is even lower than that. If you add all the people who got the virus, recovered on their own and never reported it, that fatality rate would be even lower. This virus stuff is just a test to see if people are compliant....Little by little they will start taking away your freedom and before you know it....BOOM! They're going to insert a chip in your body and we're all gonna need this chip to do business, buy stuff and survive in a society. We're going to be controlled like sheep and there will be only 1 government! It's going to be a slow process but eventually this is going to happen. Hopefully i'll be dead by then.
Their bodies, their choice.
@@willinthearea6318 Well said.