I spend large amounts of money residing in Thailand. But the moment they send me a tax bill for income I make abroad, which I don’t even bring here - Im gone. Not gonna pay a penny of hard earned foreign income to a bunch of corrupt money grabbers.
35% tax and a few million foreigners are gone shortly. Especially since most locals never pay
6 месяцев назад+1
any taxation to my money and I will be spending my money elsewhere. The land of smiles has already alienated the Chinese and their Yuan; they tax Westerners here, and GOOD LUCK THAILAND
yeah, the ones that don't have a tax treaty with Thailand, sure. if they aren't paying their taxes in their home country, sure. there are 61 countries with the treaty in effect. I don't exactly equate that to millions.
@@mlgneo2855 How long have you been here ? How much have you done for them ? I did a lot. I spent a lot. I've created jobs and left a small fortune in their hands...Never once has that been recognized.....They assume you are just a fool who is lucky enough to live in their heavenly nation......Last time i'll explain. After that i just assume you're daft. Taxes are 'invented' to pay for services, benefits and rights. You know the stuff you have none of as a farang in Thailand....Not for nothing.( yes that also means maintenance of infrastructure , for wich we already pay other bills too yes indeed ).. Assuming you HAVE to pay tax somehwere is sheepish behavior and a result of indoctrination. Sorry if you don;t get it. Too bad if you agree with it. They love that. People who pay for government misbehavior out of sense of duty...5555. Because you are not paying for your benefit. If you feel you are.. Give me an answer then. What do you get more that justifies you paying the same rate as a Thai ?????? We're just tourists here. And if you disagree with that last statement. Look at your visa...duh.
6 месяцев назад+98
If Thailand taxes my VA disability income that I have transferred to my Thai bank, I'm gone....
I agree, Thailand is thinking that expats will not leave the country. They will, and in 2-4 years, see the consequences of there Tax system. When expats are leaving Thailand and not spending there money. As well as all the condos going up for sale. And Foreigners not buying condos to rent out, since there won't be anyone to rent them. I could see a housing market crash. Just my opinion.
6 месяцев назад+67
And I certainly won't be purchasing any condo property here now...yeah, they better think about what they are doing....
in german, the saying goes, "if you want everything, you end up with nothing." this is especially true when you have conflicting ideas. In the case of thailand, it's about wanting to attract wealth from the clientele who consume here and invest in houses, for example, and at the same time you make their lives unnecessarily difficult. I doubt that any of those who come up with such ideas have ever spoken to someone who comes from abroad with a lot of money. the thai government should be happy about the euros, dollars and rubles that are coming in.
True. I spend my whole income in Thailand and get something back for it, meanwhile paying tax in form of VAT. Why try to suck more out of me? I read that Malaysia doesn't Tax foreign pensions. It's a good option for me.
I am just so sick and tired of the new regime's constant new plans to screw foreigners. I know a number of couples who have already left Thailand this year because of the new income tax law from 1 January and I know others who are also planning to leave as soon as possible. I am among the latter group. As soon as I am able to afford to live for seven months a year away from Thailand and then not be a tax resident, that is what I am going to do. Watch this space as the current six months residence in Thailand to be a tax resident will surely become three months. As always in Thailand, the realities and the thoroughly predictable consequences of these changes and proposed (likely) changes have not been thought through. Thailand is already a much less attractive destination for retirees due to the baht's being way over-valued and therefore Thailand has become a much more expensive place to live than it was when I moved here at the end of 2011. There are may other developing countries in this region that are now far more attractive. Malaysia in particular for me and not least because 95 per cent of people in Malaysia speak at least reasonable English while 95 per cent in Thailand don't have any English, as we all know. So, Thailand is no longer a good value destination for retirees and many many more foreigners WILL leave as soon as they're in a position to do so. Me among them.
@@stevewilliams2565 well it might at some point but so far not. Nothing lasts for but why not make haste while the sun shines. I think other countries are making the most of Thailand's ex pat unfriendly system by making their own systems more welcoming.
As soon as the pandemic began, I noticed the influence of the WHO and the World Bank here in Thailand. Now that we have been able to follow all the new PM's meetings abroad, it has become clear to me that he also has his fingers in the WEF. I think that's a shame, because Thailand will lose its independence
@@susanzimmerli5178 BRICS is the counterpart of the WEF in my opinion, with the aim of having its own currency and intensive economic cooperation, among other things. One can only hope that the new bank - NBD - has clean hands for this. But with almost 100 member countries now, it is also a globalization
All these changes are akin to a "tell" in poker. We can see which way this government is leaning and how they see the future of the country. It seems to be a global problem at the moment govs everywhere are playing their own game and the average Joe is expected to suck it up not complain and be good little serfs.
Thailand is desperately seeking to increase tax revenues. I strongly believe a future government won’t be this harsh to implement new tax laws. The negative impacts are probably not been considered yet.
Mr Hart keep up your fantastic work in voicing your concerns Re: Globalization ( Marxism) I agree that’s why I moved to Thailand 15 years ago to get away from Globalization and socialist western culture, live in Phuket with my thai wife and our two daughters Dave
No. If it were Marxism, we would get something for our money. This is straight up fascism. Sick of right wingers calling everything Marxism. Read Marx for Christ's sake. Fascism or Marxism, it's all the same--authoritarianism.
Key word "PREPARING" After 20 yrs here I find myself Preparing for the big What If. By no means do I want to pull up stakes. As well I am not willin to pay tax on non taxable US income. Hope they re-think this and scrap it. Some folks are already planning the move. Not there yet but looking at options.
@@mlgneo2855 I read the actual articles form the Gov where they state they are looking at 2025, they need to change the law first. 2024 you will get assessed on what you brought in to Thailand which will need to be filed before 31st of march. Try reading instead of watching videos.
I know we can never make long term plans nowadays. I left Canada because the government has become so xenophobic that it banned foreign buyers. It sucks.....
The world bureaucrats want to live a careless and luxurious lifestyle and pestering big corps and billionaires may turn someone's life into an opposite of careless and luxurious 😂 It's easy to pester you and me because we cannot get back at them. Corps and individuals who possess billions of dollars can turn anybody's life into a living hell.
With all this talk is Thailand go to add No taxation with out representation to their constitution. I swear do these people ever think if you try to tax a mobile population they can just leave and then you get no tax or spending from them.
thats why i always sayed dont buy a house or invest in thailand. Also not in an Elite Visa. As you see law can always change so quickly. There is no trust in third world countries. just stay away there are many other countries
I wholeheartedly agree with (these) your opinions. If they want me to pay taxes, how about giving me the vote to reject those those proposed adjustments. NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION
At the same time that this rubbish is being proposed, I read another article where Thailand is planning to be a hub for remote workers. What are they trying to achieve? Do they want people to go there or not? Or is the type of people they want...tourists and remote workers, yes....expats, stay home? Was planning on retiring there, but if this goes through, I'll look elsewhere like Vietnam etc.
Well said Ben, you know I'm an English person retired here for 14 years on pension only and I'm wondering what kind of shit the Thai tax system is going to throw at me it's worrying man
I'd be happy to pay Thai income tax IF I was working in Thailand. I'm just not sure how they'd have the jurisdictional right to tax any income earned in my country of citizenship.
Dont forget, most countries allow you to buy land and a house on your name. Thailand doesn't! So you fill their pockets and still don't have full rights. Doesn't sound win win to me..
@@jinparksoul I think this model is quite unique to the US. In Germany I do not pay any taxes since moving to Thailand (I had to sell my condo in Frankfurt though to get rid of "german residency status").
@@jinparksoul that is very uniquely USA. Other Western nations you stop paying taxes when you no longer have "tax residency". The exact conditions and details of getting rid of tax residency depends on the country.
And here I was planning on retiring in Thailand and seriously considering buying either a condo or pool villa. The money I would have contributed to the Thai economy with the purchase of a roof over my head, plus daily expenses should have been enough! If this farang double tax law comes in, I'll be looking at Vietnam as a retirement option.
With no certainty going forward and how i thought this confusion would drag out, thats exactly what i did @ graham1958 as of January this year, why wait, make your own decisions and get on with the rest of your life, all the best.
Foreigners who say they will spend 6 months in Thailand and 6 months elsewhere will soon never return to Thailand. The new tax needs to be reconsidered again if it is such a good idea. But immigration also needs to be reformed. Everyone is tired of 3 months reporting and only getting 1 year O visas when they are planing on staying in Thailand the rest of their lives after retiring. It’s not exactly welcoming.
for USA "Exchange of Information 1. The competent authorities of the Contracting States shall exchange such information as is necessary for carrying out the provisions of this Convention or of the domestic laws of the Contracting States concerning taxes covered by the Convention insofar as the taxation thereunder is not contrary to the Convention. The exchange of information is not restricted by Article 1 (General Scope). Any information received by a Contracting State shall be treated as secret in the same manner as information obtained under the domestic laws of that State and shall be disclosed only to persons or authorities (including courts and administrative bodies) involved in the assessment, collection, or administration of..."
I've said this once, and I will say it again,. They want your money, but not your full domicile. They are trying to have it both ways. Come visit, spend all your money, however when it's time to leave, ( not longer than six months). Then go back to where you came from. Keep it moving, keep it moving, keep getting fresh new faces.
Good on you for speaking out about this craziness Benjamine. I call this beloved country Whyland, and I’ve only been here for 2 years. It feels like a novice got into the engine room of a locomotive, pressed a button, and started a movement that's now out of control. The chaos in the visa department and the latest DTV blunder show how badly this could go. Rolling this out with no warning, no plan, and no structure, and expecting worldwide coordination by 2025 is unrealistic. Many banks abroad will start closing the accounts of expats in Thailand to avoid reporting requirements, as we’ve seen with FBAR. The thought of divulging my worldwide income to anyone is uncomfortable. There’s no way I’m disclosing my income to the Thai authorities as the plan demands. Tax me on what I bring in, but I won’t reveal my worldwide resources to anyone except the IRS because I’m a US citizen. You speak to this very well, and I sense you will get recognized by those trying to enforce this madness. I hear a mandatory 3,000,000 insurance is next.
@@mlgneo2855 Not sure why that matters at this point. You will still need to divulge ALL your worldwide personal income information and provide tax credit information from any country that has taxed you... which I won't be okay with; not sure anyone will be who isn't a Thai Citizen
@@IfonlyIHad-e8j Presently, under Section 41 of the Revenue Code, any foreign resident in the kingdom for over 180 days is required to make an income tax return.
I note Thai Examiner’s report that “Revenue Department has set its eyes on all income earned in 2024 and is requiring tax returns from all Section 41 foreign residents by March 31st 2025”. This is news to me. Is it true?
If they make this change they won't implement this retroactively on all income earned in 2024. Just like the tax assessment change at the end of last year applied to income brought in from 2024 and onwards.
@@tedosmond413- According to the search engine Perplexity, “Section 41 of the Thai Revenue Code governs the taxation of foreign source income for Thai residents. A person staying in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating 180 days or more in any tax year is considered a resident of Thailand”
This is typical third world mentality...they don't think, they only react. Having lived abroad for over 40 years I find this behavior to be a common thread amongst third world countries. The most direct path to reducing the FDI is to tax a company on its global revenue and expedite a mass exit of multinational companies operating in Thailand. As for the retired expat community is concerned, we are essentially permanent tourists who like visiting tourists only spend money not take from the economy. Thankful for the tax treaties in place it's doubtful the retired community would be taxed however those who transfer funds for property purchases would have to take a hard look before making that leap which in turn would kill the real estate sector should those funds be taxed. In any case my exit strategy is in place should the tide turn against the retired community and BTW my next move is not a country in SE Asia.
Great comment. Please tell us which country(s) you are considering. I was thinking to divide my 12 months in Thailand to be instead (to avoid bring a section 41 tax resident) as: 4 months in Thailand 4 months in Da Nang, Vietnam 4 months in either The Philippines -or- in Penang, Malaysia.
@@mfj2648 That's a lot of moving around. It works only if you posses nothing but a smartphone, a laptop and little clothing that can be packed into a couple of suitcases 🤷
@@SvirepiyBambr-xw8rw I am hoping that I would only need to execute on this 4-4-4 plan for a couple of years, until Thailand would come to their senses and stop trying to kill the Golden Goose. And in the meantime, I will have gained valuable insight into what it is like to live in these other countries as a retiree. How can I know that Thailand is the best deal in town for retirement ?
On point, has said this since first publish of this change in the tax law. Im happy to pay tax here and have been doing that for the past 8 years. But now when my overseas savings being taxed, with three kids to support then hell no, cheaper to live back home in Sweden then
@@susanzimmerli5178 savings becomes income when remitted into Thailand. If you can't prove that it has been taxed already. And as Sweden cut ties with Swedes outside of europe for banking etc, it's now impossible to prove that it's been taxed over 10years ago. At least that's what my tax lawyer told me.
The worst part for me is the uncertainty. If we knew what the tax plan really was and when it was going to be implemented we could plan. I understand Thailand flip flops on a lot of issues and I usually roll with it all but this has a much larger impact on my life than whether I need to fill out an additional document or two for my visa.
Exactly @gymratt17, this is why after gaining approval last Sep ( pre cut off date , old price ) for the 20 year Elite visa i decided not to go ahead when all the forward looking Tax changes were announced. I needed Certainty and peace of mind , there still is none on this issue and in fact going the way i thought it would. No way to live with so much at stake in my last quarter. Put plan B in place and i sleep quite well and still have the 1 million bhat earning for me instead. All the best
If these tax laws ever do come to fruition, are they going to pick and choose which countries visitors have to pay them and which don’t like they did 90 day visa exemptions ?
Great post, as a fellow lawyer and economist I feel equally frustrated. It’s clear someone is either being unduly influenced by the OECD/EU, misunderstood what is been communicated to them by the OECD, or just using the OECD as an excuse for a ill-conceived tax grab. Actually the OECD tax transparency standards ( BEP2 ) does not apply to Individual tax payers, it applies to corporates to prevent profit shifting and enforce a minimum tax, thus the focus on DTAs (which are really not designed or intended for individuals many who have very complex tax profiles). Thailand should look to HK or SG for a system that works well and is suited to their open economy. No tax is imposed of foreign income remitted by individuals and comply fully with BEPS 2. Even Malaysia who also went along with this OECD nonsense got cold feet and backed out of taxing individuals on foreign income on a remittance basis. They were supposed to implement this in 2021 but was frozen to 2026 after M2H visa application fell by 80%. Looks like they will probably scrap the whole thing. So probably they got the message before it was too late. Whoever is pushing this nonsense in Thailand really has to wake up. It will ruin its long-stay retirement/tourist hub, its condo market and ultimately its economy.
Thailand is moving towards a 'lost decade'.....you simply cannot tax your way out of a mess. The service sector will get hit the hardest, hotels will end up closing & most Farangs will either leave or spend 6 months away. There is absolutely no way I'm going to give Somchai 35% of profits made outside Thailand.
@@mlgneo2855 Ohh yes they do when you have complex returns that involve trusts, being a director of an international companies, shares, property, self managed super funds and earnings/deductions in multiple countries My last return for just Australia was $2k. Good accountants are not cheap, stuff up a return is more
The approach of the left in economy such as more tax, more redistribution to stimulate the economy, has never worked, in Thailand and everywhere else. The current Thai government is in the wrong direction. Economically Thailand will never be as developed as the countries inhabited mostly by the North-East Asians like Japan, Singapore, China, South-Korea, etc. There are some culture or mentality differences that no one can change. If furthermore it adopts a wrong economic policy, ...
I have been thinking about just what you mentioned ("outside influence")since the first day this tax stuff started coming out. When I look at the timing of it in particular. This stuff began percolating not long after Anothy Blinkin (U.S. Sec. of State) met with Thai Deputy Foreign Minister in D.C. Do the math.
i know most of it will probably not happen. but im sick of it. its all the time. im out of here for six months every year. I view my house here as a base for my Asian travel now. One thing that really pisses me of...........why dont the Thais pay tax? I dont know any Thai that pays tax.
This would suck, I would leave forsure. Thailand changes to many rules to fast you can't ever invest time or money there because as soon as you do the rules change.
When I taught in school here I paid Thailand income tax and, therefore was exempted to pay tax to the IRS/US government. Now I am retired and collect US Soc. Sec. based on earnings and Soc. Sec. taxes paid in the US. This money is claimed on my US tax return. I collect no soc. sec from my Thai work.
I am an author published by Amazon, an American company. I'm not paying the US AND Thailand. I am moving to another country as soon as my lease is up here.
@@tedosmond413 The DTA only gives you a tax credit from one to the other. I'm not sure which direction. But if the Thai tax responsibility is ever higher (most likely the case), you'll owe the difference. Also, filing taxes in two jurisdictions is a pain and expensive.
@tedosmond413 It doesn't quite work that way, especially for the upcoming generations that don't have pensions. Since Thailand's tax brackets and rates are much more aggressive than the United States, any American transferring money in from Capital Gains, Dividends, or even a 401k will pay whatever taxes are owed in the U.S. and then extra on top of that to meet the Thai tax brackets. The tax changes are so aggressive in some circumstances, that it will be much cheaper to just retire in the U.S.
Direct Foreign Investment in Thailand is cratering. They led the way with HDD's but now the world has gone SSD so that's dead. They were leading in ICE automobile manufacturing/assembly but the world is going electric. And the govt has done nothing to pivot from this. Now with this, they will lose a great big chunk of foreign capital inflows from expat/retirees fleeing. Inept cannot even begin to describe the performance of the current regime.
These arbitrary and abrupt changes to laws doesn't inspire confidence in the govt. the herb law changes, the majority will probably accept, but cue the outrage if laws around tax and visas change every 2 years depending on a change of govt.
I am glad that you seem to finally "get it", I just pray that there is someone with a degree in economics from a legitimate University in the current Thai administration, who is not afraid to speak up about not only the vagueness of this new law , but also the severe damage that this could do to thousands of small Thai businesses, as well as the construction sector, that cater to expats in Bangkok, Pattaya/Jomtien, Koh Samui, Phuket, Hua Hin and Chiang Mai, in particular. These radical ideas of worldwide taxation, come from the Nazi's at the W.E.F. in Davos, and should Thailand not awaken before it is too late, then they will be dragged down into the abyss along with many other countries that apparently cannot think for themselves, and who caved to W.E.F. for no apparent reason other than pure peer pressure and perhaps a little graft as well.
Thailand is playing with fire... there is no way ANY wealthy westerner will live (and spend their money) in Thailand if they are to be fully taxed at a world wide level. Zero chances. The exodus on wealthy retirees and the consequent impact on the related industries (luxury villas, car rental, fine dinning, services, etc) will be significant.
Confused…. Is this tax to apply only to money brought into Thailand? Or a tax somehow based on total income from (in my case) USA? I am retired here but have a top tax bracket income from investments and ongoing business in USA that my sons now run. I am not willing to be double taxed even if I could afford it. I bring quite a bit of funds into Thailand but will let bank account dwindle until more is understood. Also, New car buy planned for this month now cancelled. Doesn’t make much sense that Thailand on the one hand says they want to increase the economic quality of people looking to move here, but then enact tax laws that drive those very same people away.
Last year they announced only money brought into Thailand would be taxed. Now they’re making it much worse by saying all income you make - anywhere in world - will be taxed in Thailand, regardless of whether you bring it to Thailand or not. So, worst case scenario is now taking place.
Yes there’s sweeping implications if they try to tax already taxed income from abroad. People won’t invest in condos villas or houses that could cause a housing crash in Thailand they won’t retire in Thailand and spend their money there. If they are going to tax residents will they give them legal permanent residency ?
Good rant video! I personally have a friend that was going to get his retirement visa here until they started all the tax talk. He said he may come back if they figure it out..and went back to the USA..with his money
If I move to Thailand from Australia and my income is from my rental property I will be paying tax already to the ATO. I don't have to pay anything to Thai government right? Do I need to declare it every year though?
I was planning to retire in Thailand next year but I have now reconsidered and will just come and go as I have done for the last 30 years or so. I think once you commit to a long term visa then you are effectively resident, and thus become assessible for tax, even though I pay taxes in the UK and they will tax pension income and such when I retire. UK has some really nice tax wrappers (isa's/pensions) designed to build wealth for retirement and I want to keep those. Also Thai government have a habit of coming out with strange and odd laws, so you never know what is will happen. Best keep my options open. Brave of you Ben to come out and say something.
If double taxation comes to fruition here, I can see a drastic economic effect happening. Farangs will be leaving in droves, as well as people not wanting to retire here. The effects are already happening as foreigners are holding off on spending as they wait to see what these new tax laws contain. It would be a big mistake in my opinion for the government to do this. I guess we wait and see?…
that would be an extreme, I mean EXTREME worst case scenario if they got rid of their tax treaty's. anyone from the 61 named countries really don't need to worry about a thing. it's all being blown out of proportion.
@@mlgneo2855 I think you are correct. But we will just have to wait and see how it all shakes out. I do still think the Thai economy is taking a hit right now because of all the misinformation and no clear information from the Government.
in this case only visa LTR with royal decree 10 years no tax pension and incomes in the world But you musr have 80.000 $ year with passive income (pension coupons dividends rent)
I thought that The Kingdom of Thailand was one of the ONLY countries to never be overrun by another country… Appears that the history books may have to be changed…
In Australia only 18% of the population pay 100% of the ,,,real accumulated taxation,,,, the private sector workers,,slave class,,, And around 40+% on fat welfare payments And around another 40% public self servents Over 3 level's of currupt government Local State Federal And inflation it's the 80+% that doesn't do anything productive that causes infection ,,,, money printing,,,,,
I agree that is a matter of principles but at the end of the day if, for visa extension reasons, I transfer 65k per month into Thailand, what would be the tax impact on my budget ?
Sorry! Off topic: WOW! This is scary. I just had a big fight with Perplexity AI. It's initially tried to dupe me. I asked about the next WHO pandemic health treaty meeting, scheduled after june 4-6th, and it went off on a denial trip. However, I persevered. I pasted in the following text into Perplexity Ai, 'When is the next meeting?' after a politicised attempt to railroad me, I said 'WHO health treaty which just failed to be passed and which was celebrated by maimstream media as a victory to the people, is in fact to be sneaked through, I believe next month, which will give them absolute authority to dictate any response to any global emergency, they deem fit. And 'We' will have no choice. It eventually responded however, ''I apologize for any confusion. The next meeting specifically related to the WHO's pandemic treaty negotiations is the Intergovernmental Negotiating Body (INB) session. The INB is responsible for drafting and negotiating the pandemic treaty. The INB's next meeting is scheduled for June 12-16, 2024. This session will continue the discussions and negotiations on the pandemic preparedness and response accord.'' So... Please don't shoot the messenger.. Or me!
I think this new government may even be worse than the previous one. It's interesting to see how the Thai Baht has been going down since January 1 when the new tax law came into effect. It might just be a coincidence, but the Baht increased after the announcement until about December 31 as people may have transferred money into the country. Maybe they should wait to see the effect of that, before thinking about making another change so quickly. Some changes in Tax law may eventually be required as some people can pay very little tax (or even no tax) worldwide as Thai tax residents with the right setup, but maybe take it slow...
These taxes always gets the low hanging fruit which is you the people but companies have creative accounting and off shore tax safe havens, Which means they pay next to nothing compared to you. And yes as others have stated you have options to move if it gets bad and if you are an retires keep the minimum to qualify for retirement visa.
it would be drastic step forward or big leap if tax worldwide jncome even if not remitted to thailand, hope at least part of it used to reduce air pollution in bangkok and chiangmai
Here how the law affected my personal decisions. I was planning to move to Thailand in March 2024 and was planning to rent for a year one bedroom with rent of 22,000 in Pattaya, specifically the one I want to buy. I had to delay the move till August to be sure that I do not have 180 days in Thailand in 2024 and now I am planning to rent something in area of 15,000 - small studio without intention to buy. May be one year from now things will get better. Based on my original budget of 70,000 baht, I did not spent 350,000 baht in Thailand ( March - July) and I am cutting overall budget to 55,000 from Aug 2024. Who knows if something else come out I might just stay for three months in winter there and the rest in Cuba/Colombia.
Hi Ben, I'm an Aussie Vet that gets a tax exempt pension from the Australian government, does that mean Thailand will tax me or honour the fact it is non taxable, since I will be spending it in Thailand anyway.. I don't see why they should be able to slug me with tax.. If so fine.. I will retire elsewhere, they will be the losers there.. cheers, Rob
If an Expat living in Thailand gets taxed....then the question is....does the expat have access to Free Medical....and other incentives which Thai Citizens have access to
A question: if you have double nationality, stay 170 days with one passport in Thailand. Then go out. Come back with your second nationality, and stay another 170 days, what will happen. The remaining time, just go travel around.
They'll find a way to get you on a technicality and tax you. Better to just come as a tourist avoid the tax. Buy no properties, visas or anything tying you to the country and leave. They will massively regret this decision.
Regarding the likelihood of pension income being taxed, I suspect the Thai authorities don't even have it on their radar. It's the "tax experts" who are seeing a great opportuniy to make money who are advising expats to get TINs etc which seems to be the worst thing you can do in the present situation.
I used to holiday all over Thailand, it's a lovely country - a couple weeks here, a few more there, beaches, mountains, island hopping, road trip through Isaan. That and then just eating at all the local restaurants where I live, working at various coffee shops. This year I am spending all that money in Vietnam, Malaysia, even went back to the USA for a couple months. Used to volunteer teaching English at my local (country) school too - now I am gone too much so I can't fit that in. They should have been happy about expats living in Thailand and bringing millions of baht in per year (and I am just one guy!!) to spend all around the country but instead they'll drive them out. I'll just travel - it's a heck of a lot cheaper than what they want me to pay in taxes!
Studies 16 years to be lawyer, soon to make more from youtube. Great commentary.. I hope he develops something long lasting and perpetual... 2x short btc, starting soon🙏 -a gift for good value🙏
Wow 180 degrees change in attitude. Last time you were saying oh Thailand need the tax to build infrastructure or something when talking about new tax rules on remitting foreign sourced income into Thailand. 😂 My attitude is the same. After spending all my Thai baht, I leave. Find your 100 tourists to fill the “loophole” I left behind since the government here like to fill up “loophole” so much while leaving LTR visa to be immune to the 2024 new tax rules. 🤣🤣
It's good to see you speaking out against this. But the walls do seem to be closing in. The new government appears to be putty in the hands of Mr. Globaloni.
After 26 years living in Thailand I am spending down the amount of $ I bring into or keep in Thailand due to the new tax stuff as are many other retirees.
This is excellent commentary on this issue. If they implement this, the real problem is that Thailand will have not average, but one of the worst tax systems. By not having separate capital gain tax, you'll end up paying progressive income tax rates on your capital gains! This is not acceptable. I like Thailand and just paid dozens of thousands for Elite visa, but I will not be coming - it is too much of a sacrifice. It is a developing country after all. The government is consistent by wanting to attract foreigners on one hand. And mulling ideas like this on the other 😢
@mlgneo2855 there is tax treaty, but it is irrelevant in this case. If I reside in Thailand and trade / invest from there, I'll be taxed there. There's no other country involved. And Thailand doesn't recognize capital gain tax but will tax me 35% on that income. This will not be worth it. As Benjamin mentioned, everybody has particular situation and whilst people that have just oension income may not get harmed too much (dye to DTT), those that have capital gains would be damaged disproportionately and will not come
@@daruman8265 In your case of trading (ie: brokerage account) you have a legal address on file. You pay taxes based on that legal address every year when you file. If that address is in one of the 61 countries that has a tax treaty, you’ve already fulfilled your obligation to pay tax on the proceeds in said trading and would not be liable to be taxed again.
@mlgneo2855 yes. So in this example, if I stay all the time in Thailand, then I'm a tax resident there and I must provide my broker with Thailand address. Then I'm obliges to pay full tax in Thailand, Sir .....
@@daruman8265 ok, so you’re fulfilling your obligation to pay taxes and won’t be taxed in Thailand on those incomes. who said you’re going to need to provide your broker an address in Thailand? People are jumping to outrageous conclusions such as this one.
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Ben you really need to get an interview with someone from the Tax department and get some clarity on all of this!!!
I spend large amounts of money residing in Thailand. But the moment they send me a tax bill for income I make abroad, which I don’t even bring here - Im gone. Not gonna pay a penny of hard earned foreign income to a bunch of corrupt money grabbers.
are you from a country that doesn't have a tax treaty with Thailand?
Nobody is going to tax money you don’t bring into the country. Um, except the states for expat Americans, maybe? Not sure on that one.
35% tax and a few million foreigners are gone shortly. Especially since most locals never pay
any taxation to my money and I will be spending my money elsewhere. The land of smiles has already alienated the Chinese and their Yuan; they tax Westerners here, and GOOD LUCK THAILAND
yeah, the ones that don't have a tax treaty with Thailand, sure. if they aren't paying their taxes in their home country, sure. there are 61 countries with the treaty in effect. I don't exactly equate that to millions.
@@mlgneo2855 You really don;t get it do you ?
@@iJay073 elaborate.
@@mlgneo2855 How long have you been here ? How much have you done for them ? I did a lot. I spent a lot. I've created jobs and left a small fortune in their hands...Never once has that been recognized.....They assume you are just a fool who is lucky enough to live in their heavenly nation......Last time i'll explain. After that i just assume you're daft. Taxes are 'invented' to pay for services, benefits and rights. You know the stuff you have none of as a farang in Thailand....Not for nothing.( yes that also means maintenance of infrastructure , for wich we already pay other bills too yes indeed ).. Assuming you HAVE to pay tax somehwere is sheepish behavior and a result of indoctrination. Sorry if you don;t get it. Too bad if you agree with it. They love that. People who pay for government misbehavior out of sense of duty...5555. Because you are not paying for your benefit. If you feel you are.. Give me an answer then. What do you get more that justifies you paying the same rate as a Thai ?????? We're just tourists here. And if you disagree with that last statement. Look at your visa...duh.
If Thailand taxes my VA disability income that I have transferred to my Thai bank, I'm gone....
Yea tax on no taxable funds.
Same Not much cheaper in recent years anyway.
That's the problem with Thailand every year.There's a new government. And every year there's new laws.
@@UncleDodge1950 That's not what they are saying
I agree, Thailand is thinking that expats will not leave the country. They will, and in 2-4 years, see the consequences of there Tax system. When expats are leaving Thailand and not spending there money. As well as all the condos going up for sale. And Foreigners not buying condos to rent out, since there won't be anyone to rent them. I could see a housing market crash. Just my opinion.
And I certainly won't be purchasing any condo property here now...yeah, they better think about what they are doing....
Exactly... Same thing lol.
Off my list too
ME TOO
Me too
me too! forget about it.
how can you pa tax where you can not work?
Idiot, when you bring money from abroad into Thailand, it's now taxed.
Income can come in different ways (remote work, rental income, capital gains etc) and Thai authorities try to grab it.
We will see how it goes 😉
in german, the saying goes, "if you want everything, you end up with nothing." this is especially true when you have conflicting ideas. In the case of thailand, it's about wanting to attract wealth from the clientele who consume here and invest in houses, for example, and at the same time you make their lives unnecessarily difficult. I doubt that any of those who come up with such ideas have ever spoken to someone who comes from abroad with a lot of money. the thai government should be happy about the euros, dollars and rubles that are coming in.
True. I spend my whole income in Thailand and get something back for it, meanwhile paying tax in form of VAT. Why try to suck more out of me? I read that Malaysia doesn't Tax foreign pensions. It's a good option for me.
I am just so sick and tired of the new regime's constant new plans to screw foreigners. I know a number of couples who have already left Thailand this year because of the new income tax law from 1 January and I know others who are also planning to leave as soon as possible. I am among the latter group. As soon as I am able to afford to live for seven months a year away from Thailand and then not be a tax resident, that is what I am going to do. Watch this space as the current six months residence in Thailand to be a tax resident will surely become three months.
As always in Thailand, the realities and the thoroughly predictable consequences of these changes and proposed (likely) changes have not been thought through.
Thailand is already a much less attractive destination for retirees due to the baht's being way over-valued and therefore Thailand has become a much more expensive place to live than it was when I moved here at the end of 2011. There are may other developing countries in this region that are now far more attractive. Malaysia in particular for me and not least because 95 per cent of people in Malaysia speak at least reasonable English while 95 per cent in Thailand don't have any English, as we all know.
So, Thailand is no longer a good value destination for retirees and many many more foreigners WILL leave as soon as they're in a position to do so. Me among them.
to screw foreigners? are you from a country that doesn't have a tax-treaty with Thailand?
Eating too much rice is not good for your brain,I'm leaving, house already sold
Any organisation with the words Global,International or World in their organisations name should be treated with the utmost suspicion.
if I'm to pay taxes to Thailand does that mean that I get National Health Insurance
Does it mean I have a pathway to residency, no dual pricing and not getting pestered every 90 days
No
Couldn't agree more: Globalism/Globalists is the worst.
This is the best video you have done BEN !!!!!
I was planning to retire full time here but I'm seriously looking at other Asain countries now and to spend less than 180 days in Thailand.
Who says it's not coming there too🤷
@@stevewilliams2565 well it might at some point but so far not. Nothing lasts for but why not make haste while the sun shines. I think other countries are making the most of Thailand's ex pat unfriendly system by making their own systems more welcoming.
As soon as the pandemic began, I noticed the influence of the WHO and the World Bank here in Thailand. Now that we have been able to follow all the new PM's meetings abroad, it has become clear to me that he also has his fingers in the WEF. I think that's a shame, because Thailand will lose its independence
Why do they want to join BRICs then?
@@susanzimmerli5178 BRICS is the counterpart of the WEF in my opinion, with the aim of having its own currency and intensive economic cooperation, among other things. One can only hope that the new bank - NBD - has clean hands for this. But with almost 100 member countries now, it is also a globalization
All these changes are akin to a "tell" in poker. We can see which way this government is leaning and how they see the future of the country. It seems to be a global problem at the moment govs everywhere are playing their own game and the average Joe is expected to suck it up not complain and be good little serfs.
I left Thailand and now I am in Vietnam✌✌
Taxing a bit would be ok for me, but when I see thoses numbers, 25% for 1 Million THB, this is crazy.
It is about 80000 baht per the caculator I used.
It's not 25%. It's a progressive tax system. Therefore 1000000 before deductions averages out at 8.3%
That was quite a rant about this, but *someone* had to put it out there!
You're dead right on this Ben , nothing good comes from globalisation.
Thailand is desperately seeking to increase tax revenues. I strongly believe a future government won’t be this harsh to implement new tax laws. The negative impacts are probably not been considered yet.
didn't they do this with something else??????????? oh yes WEED :(
Makes my blood boil.
Mr Hart keep up your fantastic work in voicing your concerns Re: Globalization ( Marxism) I agree that’s why I moved to Thailand 15 years ago to get away from Globalization and socialist western culture, live in Phuket with my thai wife and our two daughters Dave
No. If it were Marxism, we would get something for our money. This is straight up fascism. Sick of right wingers calling everything Marxism. Read Marx for Christ's sake. Fascism or Marxism, it's all the same--authoritarianism.
Key word "PREPARING" After 20 yrs here I find myself Preparing for the big What If. By no means do I want to pull up stakes. As well I am not willin to pay tax on non taxable US income. Hope they re-think this and scrap it. Some folks are already planning the move. Not there yet but looking at options.
Everyone should make a plan B.now
im freaking out already after reading the thaiexaminer one, nukes my entire life retirement plan because of these so called world police
Starts 2025, in regards world income.
@@mlgneo2855 I read the actual articles form the Gov where they state they are looking at 2025, they need to change the law first. 2024 you will get assessed on what you brought in to Thailand which will need to be filed before 31st of march. Try reading instead of watching videos.
are you from a country that doesn't have a tax-treaty with Thailand?
I know we can never make long term plans nowadays. I left Canada because the government has become so xenophobic that it banned foreign buyers. It sucks.....
@@mlgneo2855yes
World bureaucrats need to show the the same zeal in taxing corporations and billionaires...then they may find a more sympathetic ear.
The world bureaucrats want to live a careless and luxurious lifestyle and pestering big corps and billionaires may turn someone's life into an opposite of careless and luxurious 😂
It's easy to pester you and me because we cannot get back at them.
Corps and individuals who possess billions of dollars can turn anybody's life into a living hell.
With all this talk is Thailand go to add No taxation with out representation to their constitution. I swear do these people ever think if you try to tax a mobile population they can just leave and then you get no tax or spending from them.
thats why i always sayed dont buy a house or invest in thailand. Also not in an Elite Visa. As you see law can always change so quickly. There is no trust in third world countries. just stay away there are many other countries
I wholeheartedly agree with (these) your opinions. If they want me to pay taxes, how about giving me the vote to reject those those proposed adjustments. NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION
At the same time that this rubbish is being proposed, I read another article where Thailand is planning to be a hub for remote workers. What are they trying to achieve? Do they want people to go there or not? Or is the type of people they want...tourists and remote workers, yes....expats, stay home? Was planning on retiring there, but if this goes through, I'll look elsewhere like Vietnam etc.
look up DTV Visa. 180 day stays for digital nomads (proposed).
I think that different departments in the Thai government have different goals and agendas and they seriously contradict each other.
Well said Ben, you know I'm an English person retired here for 14 years on pension only and I'm wondering what kind of shit the Thai tax system is going to throw at me it's worrying man
I'd be happy to pay Thai income tax IF I was working in Thailand. I'm just not sure how they'd have the jurisdictional right to tax any income earned in my country of citizenship.
Dont forget, most countries allow you to buy land and a house on your name. Thailand doesn't! So you fill their pockets and still don't have full rights. Doesn't sound win win to me..
US taxes me no matter where I work or live. Don't many western nations do this?
@@jinparksoulOnly USA does that
@@jinparksoul I think this model is quite unique to the US. In Germany I do not pay any taxes since moving to Thailand (I had to sell my condo in Frankfurt though to get rid of "german residency status").
@@jinparksoul that is very uniquely USA. Other Western nations you stop paying taxes when you no longer have "tax residency". The exact conditions and details of getting rid of tax residency depends on the country.
And here I was planning on retiring in Thailand and seriously considering buying either a condo or pool villa.
The money I would have contributed to the Thai economy with the purchase of a roof over my head, plus daily expenses should have been enough!
If this farang double tax law comes in, I'll be looking at Vietnam as a retirement option.
With no certainty going forward and how i thought this confusion would drag out, thats exactly what i did @ graham1958 as of January this year, why wait, make your own decisions and get on with the rest of your life, all the best.
are you from a country that doesn't have a tax treaty with Thailand?
Foreigners who say they will spend 6 months in Thailand and 6 months elsewhere will soon never return to Thailand. The new tax needs to be reconsidered again if it is such a good idea. But immigration also needs to be reformed. Everyone is tired of 3 months reporting and only getting 1 year O visas when they are planing on staying in Thailand the rest of their lives after retiring. It’s not exactly welcoming.
And how would they establish people's income from abroad? Check everyone's bank account, ATM withdrawals. I don't think so.
Western governments will gladly share the data. Just watch.
for USA "Exchange of Information
1. The competent authorities of the Contracting States shall exchange such information as is
necessary for carrying out the provisions of this Convention or of the domestic laws of the
Contracting States concerning taxes covered by the Convention insofar as the taxation thereunder
is not contrary to the Convention. The exchange of information is not restricted by Article 1
(General Scope). Any information received by a Contracting State shall be treated as secret in the
same manner as information obtained under the domestic laws of that State and shall be disclosed
only to persons or authorities (including courts and administrative bodies) involved in the
assessment, collection, or administration of..."
I've said this once, and I will say it again,. They want your money, but not your full domicile. They are trying to have it both ways. Come visit, spend all your money, however when it's time to leave, ( not longer than six months). Then go back to where you came from. Keep it moving, keep it moving, keep getting fresh new faces.
Good on you for speaking out about this craziness Benjamine. I call this beloved country Whyland, and I’ve only been here for 2 years.
It feels like a novice got into the engine room of a locomotive, pressed a button, and started a movement that's now out of control. The chaos in the visa department and the latest DTV blunder show how badly this could go. Rolling this out with no warning, no plan, and no structure, and expecting worldwide coordination by 2025 is unrealistic. Many banks abroad will start closing the accounts of expats in Thailand to avoid reporting requirements, as we’ve seen with FBAR.
The thought of divulging my worldwide income to anyone is uncomfortable. There’s no way I’m disclosing my income to the Thai authorities as the plan demands. Tax me on what I bring in, but I won’t reveal my worldwide resources to anyone except the IRS because I’m a US citizen. You speak to this very well, and I sense you will get recognized by those trying to enforce this madness. I hear a mandatory 3,000,000 insurance is next.
are you from a country that doesn't have a tax treaty with Thailand?
@@mlgneo2855 Not sure why that matters at this point. You will still need to divulge ALL your worldwide personal income information and provide tax credit information from any country that has taxed you... which I won't be okay with; not sure anyone will be who isn't a Thai Citizen
@@IfonlyIHad-e8j this is all still “PROPOSED” so I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that you “need” to divulge this information.
@@IfonlyIHad-e8j Presently, under Section 41 of the Revenue Code, any foreign resident in the kingdom for over 180 days is required to make an income tax return.
I note Thai Examiner’s report that “Revenue Department has set its eyes on all income earned in 2024 and is requiring tax returns from all Section 41 foreign residents by March 31st 2025”. This is news to me. Is it true?
If they make this change they won't implement this retroactively on all income earned in 2024. Just like the tax assessment change at the end of last year applied to income brought in from 2024 and onwards.
What is a section 41 foreign resident?
@@tedosmond413- According to the search engine Perplexity, “Section 41 of the Thai Revenue Code governs the taxation of foreign source income for Thai residents. A person staying in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating 180 days or more in any tax year is considered a resident of Thailand”
@@tedosmond413- As I understand it, Section 41 of the Thai Revenue Code defines foreign tax residents and their obligations.
@@jinparksoul- Sorry, yes. I went slightly off-topic here. I was just surprised.
just stay away from thailand and dont invest in anything. as you can see there is no secure
I agree 100%, global income tax and I am out. the worst thing is the lack of information and timeline for this new implementation.
This is typical third world mentality...they don't think, they only react. Having lived abroad for over 40 years I find this behavior to be a common thread amongst third world countries. The most direct path to reducing the FDI is to tax a company on its global revenue and expedite a mass exit of multinational companies operating in Thailand.
As for the retired expat community is concerned, we are essentially permanent tourists who like visiting tourists only spend money not take from the economy. Thankful for the tax treaties in place it's doubtful the retired community would be taxed however those who transfer funds for property purchases would have to take a hard look before making that leap which in turn would kill the real estate sector should those funds be taxed. In any case my exit strategy is in place should the tide turn against the retired community and BTW my next move is not a country in SE Asia.
Great comment.
Please tell us which country(s) you are considering.
I was thinking to divide my 12 months in Thailand to be instead (to avoid bring a section 41 tax resident) as:
4 months in Thailand
4 months in Da Nang, Vietnam
4 months in either The Philippines -or- in Penang, Malaysia.
@@mfj2648 That's a lot of moving around.
It works only if you posses nothing but a smartphone, a laptop and little clothing that can be packed into a couple of suitcases 🤷
@@SvirepiyBambr-xw8rw I am hoping that I would only need to execute on this 4-4-4 plan for a couple of years, until Thailand would come to their senses and stop trying to kill the Golden Goose. And in the meantime, I will have gained valuable insight into what it is like to live in these other countries as a retiree. How can I know that Thailand is the best deal in town for retirement ?
Never thought I would see the day thialand would go woke
are all BRIC states woke too?
On point, has said this since first publish of this change in the tax law. Im happy to pay tax here and have been doing that for the past 8 years. But now when my overseas savings being taxed, with three kids to support then hell no, cheaper to live back home in Sweden then
savings = income? No. You normaly paid tax already on savings from former income
@@susanzimmerli5178 savings becomes income when remitted into Thailand. If you can't prove that it has been taxed already. And as Sweden cut ties with Swedes outside of europe for banking etc, it's now impossible to prove that it's been taxed over 10years ago. At least that's what my tax lawyer told me.
@@ehhkoj Where is the official quotation that savings from former years will be taxed in Thailand when remitted?
@@susanzimmerli5178 go and talk with a tax lawyer and you'll understand. Everything needs to be proven when remitted into Thailand right now
The worst part for me is the uncertainty. If we knew what the tax plan really was and when it was going to be implemented we could plan.
I understand Thailand flip flops on a lot of issues and I usually roll with it all but this has a much larger impact on my life than whether I need to fill out an additional document or two for my visa.
Exactly @gymratt17, this is why after gaining approval last Sep ( pre cut off date , old price ) for the 20 year Elite visa i decided not to go ahead when all the forward looking Tax changes were announced. I needed Certainty and peace of mind , there still is none on this issue and in fact going the way i thought it would. No way to live with so much at stake in my last quarter. Put plan B in place and i sleep quite well and still have the 1 million bhat earning for me instead. All the best
If these tax laws ever do come to fruition, are they going to pick and choose which countries visitors have to pay them and which don’t like they did 90 day visa exemptions ?
Great post, as a fellow lawyer and economist I feel equally frustrated. It’s clear someone is either being unduly influenced by the OECD/EU, misunderstood what is been communicated to them by the OECD, or just using the OECD as an excuse for a ill-conceived tax grab. Actually the OECD tax transparency standards ( BEP2 ) does not apply to Individual tax payers, it applies to corporates to prevent profit shifting and enforce a minimum tax, thus the focus on DTAs (which are really not designed or intended for individuals many who have very complex tax profiles). Thailand should look to HK or SG for a system that works well and is suited to their open economy. No tax is imposed of foreign income remitted by individuals and comply fully with BEPS 2. Even Malaysia who also went along with this OECD nonsense got cold feet and backed out of taxing individuals on foreign income on a remittance basis. They were supposed to implement this in 2021 but was frozen to 2026 after M2H visa application fell by 80%. Looks like they will probably scrap the whole thing. So probably they got the message before it was too late. Whoever is pushing this nonsense in Thailand really has to wake up. It will ruin its long-stay retirement/tourist hub, its condo market and ultimately its economy.
Thailand is moving towards a 'lost decade'.....you simply cannot tax your way out of a mess. The service sector will get hit the hardest, hotels will end up closing & most Farangs will either leave or spend 6 months away. There is absolutely no way I'm going to give Somchai 35% of profits made outside Thailand.
are you from a country that doesn't have a tax treaty with Thailand?
@@mlgneo2855Still need to do a tax return regardless. Not spending thousands a year to do this in an additional country
@@josh3771who told you this and where is the source? + tax returns don’t cost thousands of dollars. What an outlandish assumption 😅
@@mlgneo2855 Ohh yes they do when you have complex returns that involve trusts, being a director of an international companies, shares, property, self managed super funds and earnings/deductions in multiple countries
My last return for just Australia was $2k.
Good accountants are not cheap, stuff up a return is more
The approach of the left in economy such as more tax, more redistribution to stimulate the economy, has never worked, in Thailand and everywhere else. The current Thai government is in the wrong direction.
Economically Thailand will never be as developed as the countries inhabited mostly by the North-East Asians like Japan, Singapore, China, South-Korea, etc. There are some culture or mentality differences that no one can change. If furthermore it adopts a wrong economic policy, ...
I have been thinking about just what you mentioned ("outside influence")since the first day this tax stuff started coming out.
When I look at the timing of it in particular. This stuff began percolating not long after Anothy Blinkin (U.S. Sec. of State) met with Thai Deputy Foreign Minister in D.C.
Do the math.
i know most of it will probably not happen. but im sick of it. its all the time. im out of here for six months every year. I view my house here as a base for my Asian travel now. One thing that really pisses me of...........why dont the Thais pay tax? I dont know any Thai that pays tax.
This would suck, I would leave forsure. Thailand changes to many rules to fast you can't ever invest time or money there because as soon as you do the rules change.
When I taught in school here I paid Thailand income tax and, therefore was exempted to pay tax to the IRS/US government. Now I am retired and collect US Soc. Sec. based on earnings and Soc. Sec. taxes paid in the US. This money is claimed on my US tax return. I collect no soc. sec from my Thai work.
I am an author published by Amazon, an American company. I'm not paying the US AND Thailand. I am moving to another country as soon as my lease is up here.
@@tedosmond413 I think he was mostly just trying to let everyone know he's an author ! if you know what I mean
@@tedosmond413 The DTA only gives you a tax credit from one to the other. I'm not sure which direction. But if the Thai tax responsibility is ever higher (most likely the case), you'll owe the difference. Also, filing taxes in two jurisdictions is a pain and expensive.
@tedosmond413 It doesn't quite work that way, especially for the upcoming generations that don't have pensions.
Since Thailand's tax brackets and rates are much more aggressive than the United States, any American transferring money in from Capital Gains, Dividends, or even a 401k will pay whatever taxes are owed in the U.S. and then extra on top of that to meet the Thai tax brackets.
The tax changes are so aggressive in some circumstances, that it will be much cheaper to just retire in the U.S.
Direct Foreign Investment in Thailand is cratering. They led the way with HDD's but now the world has gone SSD so that's dead. They were leading in ICE automobile manufacturing/assembly but the world is going electric. And the govt has done nothing to pivot from this.
Now with this, they will lose a great big chunk of foreign capital inflows from expat/retirees fleeing.
Inept cannot even begin to describe the performance of the current regime.
These arbitrary and abrupt changes to laws doesn't inspire confidence in the govt. the herb law changes, the majority will probably accept, but cue the outrage if laws around tax and visas change every 2 years depending on a change of govt.
I love how you call it as you see it and with such passion. You're spot on as well.
I am glad that you seem to finally "get it", I just pray that there is someone with a degree in economics from a legitimate University in the current Thai administration, who is not afraid to speak up about not only the vagueness of this new law , but also the severe damage that this could do to thousands of small Thai businesses, as well as the construction sector, that cater to expats in Bangkok, Pattaya/Jomtien, Koh Samui, Phuket, Hua Hin and Chiang Mai, in particular. These radical ideas of worldwide taxation, come from the Nazi's at the W.E.F. in Davos, and should Thailand not awaken before it is too late, then they will be dragged down into the abyss along with many other countries that apparently cannot think for themselves, and who caved to W.E.F. for no apparent reason other than pure peer pressure and perhaps a little graft as well.
one of the best videos you hve ever done. so much sense about this
Bruh...I am with you all the way on this global income tax nonsense...
Thailand is playing with fire... there is no way ANY wealthy westerner will live (and spend their money) in Thailand if they are to be fully taxed at a world wide level. Zero chances. The exodus on wealthy retirees and the consequent impact on the related industries (luxury villas, car rental, fine dinning, services, etc) will be significant.
Confused…. Is this tax to apply only to money brought into Thailand? Or a tax somehow based on total income from (in my case) USA?
I am retired here but have a top tax bracket income from investments and ongoing business in USA that my sons now run. I am not willing to be double taxed even if I could afford it. I bring quite a bit of funds into Thailand but will let bank account dwindle until more is understood. Also, New car buy planned for this month now cancelled.
Doesn’t make much sense that Thailand on the one hand says they want to increase the economic quality of people looking to move here, but then enact tax laws that drive those very same people away.
Last year they announced only money brought into Thailand would be taxed. Now they’re making it much worse by saying all income you make - anywhere in world - will be taxed in Thailand, regardless of whether you bring it to Thailand or not. So, worst case scenario is now taking place.
Yes there’s sweeping implications if they try to tax already taxed income from abroad. People won’t invest in condos villas or houses that could cause a housing crash in Thailand they won’t retire in Thailand and spend their money there. If they are going to tax residents will they give them legal permanent residency ?
they... won't. the tax treaty's are there for a reason. it would be an EXTREME worst case scenario if this administration cancelled those treaty's.
Good rant video! I personally have a friend that was going to get his retirement visa here until they started all the tax talk. He said he may come back if they figure it out..and went back to the USA..with his money
If I move to Thailand from Australia and my income is from my rental property I will be paying tax already to the ATO. I don't have to pay anything to Thai government right? Do I need to declare it every year though?
I was planning to retire in Thailand next year but I have now reconsidered and will just come and go as I have done for the last 30 years or so. I think once you commit to a long term visa then you are effectively resident, and thus become assessible for tax, even though I pay taxes in the UK and they will tax pension income and such when I retire. UK has some really nice tax wrappers (isa's/pensions) designed to build wealth for retirement and I want to keep those. Also Thai government have a habit of coming out with strange and odd laws, so you never know what is will happen. Best keep my options open. Brave of you Ben to come out and say something.
read the tax treaty between UK and Thailand for further clarification. if you're paying taxes in UK, there is nothing to worry about here.
I love that you are showing more and more of your based power level as time goes on. Keep up the great videos and information.
If double taxation comes to fruition here, I can see a drastic economic effect happening. Farangs will be leaving in droves, as well as people not wanting to retire here.
The effects are already happening as foreigners are holding off on spending as they wait to see what these new tax laws contain.
It would be a big mistake in my opinion for the government to do this.
I guess we wait and see?…
that would be an extreme, I mean EXTREME worst case scenario if they got rid of their tax treaty's. anyone from the 61 named countries really don't need to worry about a thing. it's all being blown out of proportion.
@@mlgneo2855 I think you are correct. But we will just have to wait and see how it all shakes out.
I do still think the Thai economy is taking a hit right now because of all the misinformation and no clear information from the Government.
Ben, well said. I guess Klaus Schwab is not coming round for a 'moo ping' 😂😂.
Could this be amended for the current year ? Just hypothetically
in this case only visa LTR with royal decree
10 years no tax pension and incomes in the world
But you musr have 80.000 $ year with passive income
(pension coupons dividends rent)
I thought that The Kingdom of Thailand was one of the ONLY countries to never be overrun by another country…
Appears that the history books may have to be changed…
In Thailand 90% of assets are owned by immigrant Chinese so that another way to colonize a country.
In Australia only 18% of the population pay 100% of the ,,,real accumulated taxation,,,, the private sector workers,,slave class,,,
And around 40+% on fat welfare payments
And around another 40% public self servents
Over 3 level's of currupt government
Local
State
Federal
And inflation it's the 80+% that doesn't do anything productive that causes infection
,,,, money printing,,,,,
Your best video. Well done.
Please keeping bring light to this insanity!!! Thanks for all you do.
If they bring this tax in Im off to Vietnam or Cambodia
are you from a country that doesn't have a tax treaty with Thailand?
I agree that is a matter of principles but at the end of the day if, for visa extension reasons, I transfer 65k per month into Thailand, what would be the tax impact on my budget ?
Good points Benjamin.
Well done!
There are few countries with this double agreement, I pay tax before I get my pension which is England.
Sorry! Off topic:
WOW! This is scary.
I just had a big fight with Perplexity AI. It's initially tried to dupe me.
I asked about the next WHO pandemic health treaty meeting, scheduled after june 4-6th, and it went off on a denial trip. However, I persevered.
I pasted in the following text into Perplexity Ai, 'When is the next meeting?' after a politicised attempt to railroad me, I said 'WHO health treaty which just failed to be passed and which was celebrated by maimstream media as a victory to the people, is in fact to be sneaked through, I believe next month, which will give them absolute authority to dictate any response to any global emergency, they deem fit. And 'We' will have no choice.
It eventually responded however, ''I apologize for any confusion. The next meeting specifically related to the WHO's pandemic treaty negotiations is the Intergovernmental Negotiating Body (INB) session. The INB is responsible for drafting and negotiating the pandemic treaty.
The INB's next meeting is scheduled for June 12-16, 2024. This session will continue the discussions and negotiations on the pandemic preparedness and response accord.''
So...
Please don't shoot the messenger.. Or me!
Well said. Thank you.
I think this new government may even be worse than the previous one. It's interesting to see how the Thai Baht has been going down since January 1 when the new tax law came into effect. It might just be a coincidence, but the Baht increased after the announcement until about December 31 as people may have transferred money into the country. Maybe they should wait to see the effect of that, before thinking about making another change so quickly. Some changes in Tax law may eventually be required as some people can pay very little tax (or even no tax) worldwide as Thai tax residents with the right setup, but maybe take it slow...
These taxes always gets the low hanging fruit which is you the people but companies have creative accounting and off shore tax safe havens, Which means they pay next to nothing compared to you.
And yes as others have stated you have options to move if it gets bad and if you are an retires keep the minimum to qualify for retirement visa.
it would be drastic step forward or big leap if tax worldwide jncome even if not remitted to thailand, hope at least part of it used to reduce air pollution in bangkok and chiangmai
Here how the law affected my personal decisions. I was planning to move to Thailand in March 2024 and was planning to rent for a year one bedroom with rent of 22,000 in Pattaya, specifically the one I want to buy. I had to delay the move till August to be sure that I do not have 180 days in Thailand in 2024 and now I am planning to rent something in area of 15,000 - small studio without intention to buy. May be one year from now things will get better. Based on my original budget of 70,000 baht, I did not spent 350,000 baht in Thailand ( March - July) and I am cutting overall budget to 55,000 from Aug 2024. Who knows if something else come out I might just stay for three months in winter there and the rest in Cuba/Colombia.
Will they tax va pay?
Hi Ben, I'm an Aussie Vet that gets a tax exempt pension from the Australian government, does that mean Thailand will tax me or honour the fact it is non taxable, since I will be spending it in Thailand anyway.. I don't see why they should be able to slug me with tax.. If so fine.. I will retire elsewhere, they will be the losers there.. cheers, Rob
If an Expat living in Thailand gets taxed....then the question is....does the expat have access to Free Medical....and other incentives which Thai Citizens have access to
This chanel is getting better and better ......
A question: if you have double nationality, stay 170 days with one passport in Thailand. Then go out. Come back with your second nationality, and stay another 170 days, what will happen. The remaining time, just go travel around.
They'll find a way to get you on a technicality and tax you. Better to just come as a tourist avoid the tax. Buy no properties, visas or anything tying you to the country and leave. They will massively regret this decision.
Finger prints.
Regarding the likelihood of pension income being taxed, I suspect the Thai authorities don't even have it on their radar. It's the "tax experts" who are seeing a great opportuniy to make money who are advising expats to get TINs etc which seems to be the worst thing you can do in the present situation.
I used to holiday all over Thailand, it's a lovely country - a couple weeks here, a few more there, beaches, mountains, island hopping, road trip through Isaan. That and then just eating at all the local restaurants where I live, working at various coffee shops. This year I am spending all that money in Vietnam, Malaysia, even went back to the USA for a couple months. Used to volunteer teaching English at my local (country) school too - now I am gone too much so I can't fit that in. They should have been happy about expats living in Thailand and bringing millions of baht in per year (and I am just one guy!!) to spend all around the country but instead they'll drive them out. I'll just travel - it's a heck of a lot cheaper than what they want me to pay in taxes!
Trust me, Thai people are very flexible and pragmatic . They will drop this nonsense in no time when they see this kind of policy will backfire.
Studies 16 years to be lawyer, soon to make more from youtube.
Great commentary..
I hope he develops something long lasting and perpetual...
2x short btc, starting soon🙏
-a gift for good value🙏
Get the saftey nets at the bottom of condos if implemented
If they do go down this track all it will mean is we won't stay in Thailand for any more than 180 days. We'll take out money and spend it elsewhere.
are you from a country that doesn't have a tax treaty with Thailand?
@@mlgneo2855 NO
Wow 180 degrees change in attitude. Last time you were saying oh Thailand need the tax to build infrastructure or something when talking about new tax rules on remitting foreign sourced income into Thailand. 😂 My attitude is the same. After spending all my Thai baht, I leave. Find your 100 tourists to fill the “loophole” I left behind since the government here like to fill up “loophole” so much while leaving LTR visa to be immune to the 2024 new tax rules. 🤣🤣
It's good to see you speaking out against this. But the walls do seem to be closing in. The new government appears to be putty in the hands of Mr. Globaloni.
One of your best and informative videos!!
After 26 years living in Thailand I am spending down the amount of $ I bring into or keep in Thailand due to the new tax stuff as are many other retirees.
This is excellent commentary on this issue. If they implement this, the real problem is that Thailand will have not average, but one of the worst tax systems. By not having separate capital gain tax, you'll end up paying progressive income tax rates on your capital gains! This is not acceptable. I like Thailand and just paid dozens of thousands for Elite visa, but I will not be coming - it is too much of a sacrifice. It is a developing country after all. The government is consistent by wanting to attract foreigners on one hand. And mulling ideas like this on the other 😢
are you from a country that doesn't have a tax treaty with Thailand?
@mlgneo2855 there is tax treaty, but it is irrelevant in this case. If I reside in Thailand and trade / invest from there, I'll be taxed there. There's no other country involved. And Thailand doesn't recognize capital gain tax but will tax me 35% on that income. This will not be worth it. As Benjamin mentioned, everybody has particular situation and whilst people that have just oension income may not get harmed too much (dye to DTT), those that have capital gains would be damaged disproportionately and will not come
@@daruman8265 In your case of trading (ie: brokerage account) you have a legal address on file. You pay taxes based on that legal address every year when you file. If that address is in one of the 61 countries that has a tax treaty, you’ve already fulfilled your obligation to pay tax on the proceeds in said trading and would not be liable to be taxed again.
@mlgneo2855 yes. So in this example, if I stay all the time in Thailand, then I'm a tax resident there and I must provide my broker with Thailand address. Then I'm obliges to pay full tax in Thailand, Sir .....
@@daruman8265 ok, so you’re fulfilling your obligation to pay taxes and won’t be taxed in Thailand on those incomes. who said you’re going to need to provide your broker an address in Thailand? People are jumping to outrageous conclusions such as this one.