350 Legend vs 450 Bushmaster: INSANE Difference On Steel
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- In today's video, we will be comparing the performance of the 350 Legend and the 450 Bushmaster on mild steel. The results were definitely not what I was expecting. Testing was setup at 50 yards using A529 gr 55 mild steel. Thanks for watching!
Testing: 2:53
*These tests are meant for entertainment and educational purposes only. Shooting steel can be dangerous, so do not try any of these tests at home! 
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“But anyway” not “anyways” like chewing with your mouth open. This makes your videos difficult to watch. Great otherwises. Lol.
I didn’t realize, but I’ll have to work on it. You may not be able to make it through the next couple videos though lol.
some could say its nunya bisness
Nonyun - If you can't handle this level of scientific specificity without also requiring us to be grammar ninjas.... 🤔 well.... then maybe you better go babysit your grammar instead of watching real men break a lot more than English etiquette. Maybe this isn't for you.
bro no one cares
Like really man/women or other, who cares. You probably have not so pleasing habits too.
I took a 475 pound black bear with a 450 bushmaster with the exact hornady cartridge you tested. The bullet passed the whole way through the bear and the bear only made it 15 yards. The shot was 100 + yards
That’s strange I shot plenty of white tails with the .450 and all the energy dissipated into the body of the deer. Never seen an exit wound. That’s preferred rather than punching holes through animals. That’s the reason why hollow points are preferred rather than full metal jackets or armor piercing rounds. I’m glad you made an ethical kill on the bear and it didn’t suffer for too long. Good on you man.
Hit any bone?
Was it a stuffed animal or a baby bear?
Shot a lot of hogs with .450bm and don’t see a lot pass through. Must have been a really skinny bear
@Wooderson5811 seen plenty of deer dropped with arrows that pass all the way through. Shooting almost anything is about shot placement than plugging up a hole with lead.
Been shooting hogs here in Texas for a couple of years with 350 Legend 150 grain Winchester Deer Season XP ammo and it has been very effective, probably my favorite hog cartridge. Have used 450 Bushmaster 250 grain Hornady Black with the FTX bullet on a few hogs, while it may not have penetrated 1/4" mild steel it really does a number on flesh and bone, busts a hog up pretty good and has dropped them right there on the few I have shot. Looking forward to AR parts for the 400 Legend, should be a great hog round and good balance between 350 Legend and 450 Bushmaster. Thanks for the video.
Glad to hear they are both effective on hogs. I agree that the 400 Legend is probably a good happy medium so I may have to look into getting one.
@@bananaballistics good thing deer aren't made out of 1/4" steel I guess. Shot one with a 450 Bushmaster and it plowed right threw it and you could see lung tissue and blood splatter against the tree behind it. Left a hole through both sides the size of a half dollar in diameter. Haven't had the chance to blast a hog using 450 BM yet. It's too much for deer though, will be using 300 Blackout as my caliber of choice for Bambi.
You definitely need to do a comparison between. 400 legend and .350 legend. I'd say it would do better than the. 450 BM as well. 😮
Try welding angle iron to your sled. Two pieces on the upright sides creating a "slot" to slide your plates in from the top
Yea I was about to say that also. All he would need is like a inch so if the plate bends it can still come out .. 🎉🎉🎉
The reason why the 450bm didnt go through is because it dumped every bit of its energy into the target very efficiently. Small and fast defeats armor but doesnt necessarily win in an energy dump contest. If you could put a pressure gauge behind the steel to measure impact psi that 450 would be much higher. Also in ballistics gel or in a devastation test on melons the 450bm would do more explosive damage and cause more cavitation damage.
“Energy dump “ does nothing on game . Punching holes through vitals kills . Every gut shot animal or shoulder shot with a Berger type garbage bullet would magically drop game . All that energy “ dumped “ into the animal but it walks away and dies a miserable death
@@Paul-q3m7k wrong, dumping energy punches through bone. Poking holes is not at all the only thing you need. If that was the case 22lr could kill a deer no problem. You need that energy dump to bust through the shoulder and expand that bullet as best as it can. Lack of energy causes low expansion means the bullet hole could seal up which is why many people lose bloodtrails.
@@Paul-q3m7k I agree poking a hole is no where close to exploding and expanding in wild game i would take the 450 bushmaster any day over the 350 legend
@@Paul-q3m7k your comment shows a very real lack of hunting knowledge
And yet a basic 30.06 is 30% more energy at 100 yards.
Really interesting result. The main factor may be that the larger diameter of the 450 legend spread out the energy over a larger area and was dissipated better by the steel. Nice looking sled btw.
That is true and I did not mention that part of it. I appreciate it!
I agree. Great point. Both do a great job with 🦌. Wouldn't want ti be on receiving end of either.
I also think the plastic tip/insert in the bullet keeps it from penetrating as well, it deforms and slows the bullet down as the projectile also expands, making it harder to go through the steel. An fmj would probably make it through in .450 legend, also a solid copper or brass bullet(while lighter and thusly faster) would I'm sure do great. I don't know if anyone loads for this caliber but Lehigh defense bullets....oh yes please
Yeah, this is a question of energy density. This was a great video though the author missed this point. I'm debating these two cartridges for an AR build and it seems the 350 Legend is the best balance so far.
The 450 also had a massive hollow point compared to the 350
I really enjoy your straight-forward no-frills (other than the quick-witted jokes) testing. This is the Project Farm of ballistics testing!
There is a big difference between hunting flesh and bone, versus armored combatants. Different tools for different jobs. Great video, as always. Yeah, the magnets just aren't strong enough for that heavy of an impact..
No debate. I bought my 350 Legend already from BCA and absolutely Love it.
Added a scope on this upper and got MOA at 100. I am very impressed with this cartridge and upper receiver combo.
The BCA if anyone is interested is a 20' heavy barrel stainless nonfluted setup at a reasonable price. I added a Rise Blitz trigger group to my lower and got an insane light trigger with almost no travel. My only problem is finding a Hog Hunt to go on...lol. The ammo I sighted in with is Federal Non Typical 180 grain. .962 group 3 shot placement.
What is the maximum effective range of that 350legend?
@@TopNoTchVSOP About the same as a 30-30. It's a heavy hitter, not a long-range precision rifle. All though, WhoTeeWho did put the 350 Legend on steel at 1000 yards. I won't be pushing this that far. I expect the hunts all to be @ 200 yards or less. WTW has the ballistic charts for this too. Check his channel out.
350 legend is quite impressive. I bought a rifle in the caliber a few years ago...and havent taken a deer with it yet...but my son has. It does just a well as my old 30-30 or 308.
Love you banana. I watch so many of your videos. Whenever I’m like “I wonder how such and such caliber compares with some other one”, you always have a video waiting for me.
I like the capture system addition but I think your v1 set up had the right idea just needed harder steel that wouldn’t bend with the impact. You’re correct that a clamp system is needed to keep it in place.
the other issue is bullet construction. A solid copper slug instead of a poly-tipped hollowpoint might work a bit better
Thanks for the video - a result I definitely didn't expect.
The 450 is a wider projectile than the 350 so the impact force is distributed over a larger area. Even if they had the exact same energy, the smaller diameter project will puncture easier than the wider larger diameter project. Narrower longer projectiles puncture. Shorter & wider projectiles punch and lose energy as the impact is distributed.
You nailed it. I have a .17 call that shoots 3300 fps and it can put a hole in that steel the size of a BB gun but I don't hunt deer with it. 450 Bush will dump all the energy in the game. Who cares about plates deer are not made of steel plates.
300 Blackout & this round not going through mild steel is driving me bananas!
I have an AR-upper in .350 Legend and like it very much. Thanks for the testing.
I have to say punching holes in steel is no indication of performance on game.
As a matter of fact it's quite possible that the exact opposite is possible.
Too much penetration might just punch small holes in the animal with no expansion.
Do the same test with ballistic jell you might be more impressed by the 450
Exactly what I was thinking. It appears to me the 450 did exactly as intended, thats why its a such a nasty hunting cartridge at respective distances
Nice informative video, I found the results surprising. I'd love to see a test of those Buffalo Bore hardcast loads in .450!
Thanks Ray Ramono!
Great as always stuff sir!
Have a content suggestion/request… how much penetration difference is there between “low recoil” vs. standard rounds?
I use low recoil in my conceal carry (.380, I know I know…) to “reduce” through-penetration risk, but always curious if it was a significant difference.
Keep up the great work!
I've got 13 one shot kills on whitetails with the 450 Bushmaster, I'll stick with it.
Results are not surprising . A narrower bullet with less surface area will have better piercing capabilities due to higher impact pressure.
However, penetration comes at the expense of energy transfer efficiency. The 458, being wider, is much better at transferring energy , so it will do better against softer targets
I can't believe there are people out there that didn't know magnets in that area would get absolutely annihilated. I can't imagine being that far out of touch with the real world...
They’re probably kids
There is a factor attributed to the reduced diameter of the 350 Legend. There's a reason that workers before refrigeration used ice picks, not ice hammers.
I saw this coming. Neodymium magnets are fragile and brittle. I've had them shatter upon slamming against each other. I expected them to shatter from the impact of the rifle rounds. That's a lot of energy being transferred.
I want to say that I saw it coming as well, but thought there might be a chance with the little bit of spacing I left lol
I would have never expected your face to match that voice.
Great content, deep voice
My favorite gun Channel. Thanks for the great content 👍. Cheers from Canada 🍻
I just got an AR upper in 450 Bushmaster. I got it to hunt whitetails and not steel. Just because the 350 went through steel says alot about how the bullet didn't expand.
I'm waiting for opportunity to head down to south Texas and see how well my side charging 450 BM works on Nilgai. I found it too much for whitetails. I would rather use 300 Blackout, .243 Win or 6.8 SPC for them and save the 450 BM for hogs and animals bigger and tougher than whitetails.
Not really, it's all about the higher velocity and smaller frontal area. Those bullets weren't designed to expand in hard objects in the first place. I'm pretty sure the results would have been the same if both bullets were lead-cored FMJs of the same sizes and weights.
@jic1 Well, I'm planning on hunting whitetails, not steel! 😁
I realize this comment isn't about what you were discussing by last season I shot a deer with the Ruger Ranch rifle chambered in the .450 Bushmaster. The range was only about 50-60 yards.... boom! dropped it like a sack of, well, you know. I was using the Hornady ammo you showcased in your video. Upon processing the deer, we noticed that the Hornady bullet didn't expand at all. The exit hole was the same as the entrance hole. I was told by others that the Hornady bullet didn't expand for them either. I know I'm off topic but that was a bit strange as the box indicated that the bullet had great expansion properties.
Change the bullet type and you will probably get far different results. Fmj's would possibly go a lot further.
Two sliding steel wedge bars, one at the top and one at the bottom the full length horizontal might work to hold those plates in place. Only needs to use a half inch or so top and bottom across the face to hold the plates
Solid copper works. 220 grain Lehigh for 450 b using lil gun powder
Good informative video. Some radio station out there is calling for you (DJ voice). Rock on 🤘😎
Shooting Deer not the same as steel. Used both and if you want to down one like a hammer use the 450 bushmaster. If you are weaker or recoil shy then go with the toned down 350 Legend.
How about a comparison of 444 marlin vs. 4570. Just thought it would be neat to see what the difference is. Thank you. John Gibson.
444 walks on most "factory" loads for 45-70 but 450 marlin and hot loads for 45-70 can match velocity with a hundred grain heavier bullets.
First thing that popped in my k-noggin when you said you were going to try neo mags was that they were going to shatter. The setup that you have been developing to hold the plates has been as enjoyable as the rounds you have been testing/comparing. I am picturing some slotted "L" brackets attached to adjustable welding lockdowns to cinch the plates in place. They may pop open from the impact but as long as you don't hit them you should be ok. Actually popping open may be preferred since the lockdowns would not have to take the full force of trying to keep the plate in place and the energy would be disapated with the plates flying free.
Other than the 45-70 the 450 Bushmaster is the best rifle for large game in the brush.
That's a pretty open statement. There are lots of much more powerful cartridges than those two that will work very well in the brush or anywhere else. The 450 bushmaster is a very good round but there are reasons the 45-70 was long abandoned for numerous other calibers.
The 45-70 Government is the best Bush gun there is for me and it's not all about the power, I've been a Hunter for years and in the brush the 45-70 Government or the 450 Bushmaster is what I'm taking. You can believe what you want to.
444 marlin
458 soc can match most factory 45-70 loads with same .458 bullet choices vs 450bm which uses a .452 bullet. I personally like 458soc more.
I have the 450 bm. In ohio we have to use straight wall. This was my first season and first buck with it.
Ignoring a potentially perfect “luck shot” the buck didnt even make a full jump when i hit him. He died turning to run and didnt make it one step.
Never shot a 350, but i have hunted with a very old 45-70 lever action and even a super well potentially “near perfect” placed shot id see 5-10 yards before a drop.
The exit wound on the 450 was ridiculous.
Im not saying i drop deer every time i take a shot, ive had my share of 3 hour or more walks to find em. Lol
I cant wait to get back out next weekend and bag another!! Hopefully replicate the same shot cause man that was easy 👍🏻
Cool video by the way! After seeing that exit wound i wanted to do some tubin’ and see if i just got lucky or what. 450 is in my opinion a great tool.
Like anything, it comes down to the shooter. We all have good days and bad days! You can kill a buck with snare and a knife too. Many ways to skin a cat lol many tools to get the same job done. just my .02
What about adding a sleve that you could slide the plate down into,like the little lip at the bottom but 4 to 6 inches tall with some metal on the side so it cant slide left/right
So, hunting big game, you can choose the .450 Bushmaster. Hunting big automobile, you choose the .350 Legend!
Not to mix up your whole plate form, but you should start doing the same tests but at farther distances. You and Colion Noir are the best gun channels on YT
I agree. I have been trying to figure out how to get further distances on the property I shoot at. I really appreciate it!
I hope to try the ar in 350L this deer season. I think it should be a good close range set up for whitetail deer 🦌 it should put meat in the freezer seeing what it done to that plate. 2A💪
I know what my 450 does to whitetail. Drops them faster than my 7mm mag did. Sticking with my 450
You hunted deer with a 7mm mag.? To me it seems like overkill even if you have very long shots.
@@russellkeeling4387it’s really not. The 450 is overkill inside 100 yards. I killed two muleys and a whitetail with a 7 Mag and didn’t have any loss.
Love my 450, deer don't..
8450 guys don't get so defensive the bullet is doing what is designed to do get inside there and pinball racquetball the organs. You can modify your bullets to go through
@@MontanaWillie44 how can you overkill a deer?
What happened to the video where you tested a bunch of 308 bullets? Did it get flagged or something?
The 350L has been awesome for taking Michigan whitetails. It hits hard, especially inside 100 yds. Very capable round yet mild mannered enough for my younger hunters to use.
Savage 110
Way the rifle barrel wobbled was like a rubber gun lol great content dude greetings from uk 👍🦊🐾🇬🇧🇺🇲
On the other hand. Have you ever thought of getting into radio? You've got the voice for it, no doubt.
Lol, this guy! Somewhere out there, Raymond and Robert are trying to find their long lost brother.
You should try a top clamp to hold the plate, similar to a top break pistol and a wedge at the bottom.
That’s a good idea. I may look into a vise as a clamp as others have mentioned
What's the recoil difference?
This newer channel is both entertaining and informative....yet,a brush gun doesn't need to penetrate steel. Keep making these.
I'm not so sure I would say it's a disappointment that the 450B didn't penetrate. All the energy impacted the steel.
just as a ballistic tip should do. the 350 legends ballistic tip did not preform as intended, acted more like a fmj then a ballistic tip round.
Ok my friend I liked the video but do you have plans for the sled?
I didnt think the 350 had that kinda energy. Im pretty impressed
In reality it really doesn't. .350 pushes 1,800lbs of energy vs .450 pushing 2,700lbs of energy.
Smaller diameter bullets penetrate hard objects easier with less energy, so it's kind of a rigged test.
Imagine a stretched sheet of canvas and how easily a needle pokes through vs a bowling ball thrown at it probably wouldn't go through.
Not Penetrating 1/4 steel might be a good thing.... Remembering that while high velocity is important.. if it blows through your targeted animal. It takes energy with it....😮😮
The key is to have the high velocity, while ensuring its DECELERATION is so fast and violent... It creates the most hydrostatic shock energy possible. ❤
Ahhh yes, the controversial hydrostatic shock theory.
Think the steel is velocity dependent. Will a 45/70 405 grn pop a hole?
for your sled rig, i would use catch hooks similar to what i saw on the bottom, up top as well, only rely on magnets to hold it in place for the shot and let the hooks keep it from going flying, it'll make it a slight pain to load a plate from the side, but it beats not having to chase the plate after every shot
Not surprising at all, lower velocity plus a larger frontal area prevents penetrating the steel. A 22 magnum penetrates more layers of kevlar than a 44 magnum but which one do you think does more damage to the tissue behind the Kevlar?
bruh that bullet is literally the hornady bullets i shot out my 50 cal muzzleloader lmao never thought id see it in a casing
Thank you, Raymond.
So does this mean if I shoot a Bigfoot wearing 1/4" mild steel armor, I'm gonna be in big trouble? I thought my .450 Bushmaster would for sure drop the big guy....
Actually the energy transfer would turn its ribs and internals into jello at over 2,200 lb-ft of kinetic energy. If anyone thinks that wearing a vest will save them, think again!!! Those 2 distinctly different bullet designs are designed for completely different ballistics and ranges. The 350 is a nasty round with better longer range performance, but the 450BM is designed to stop ANYTHING within 200yds...period!!!
@@Bush63Master Hence why I chose the 450 Bushmaster over the 350 Legend.
Have you tried just tarp straps on the top and bottom? On that rig it could "possibly" Work? They're fairly cheap so maybe worth a shot...
New to the channel. What's the purpose of the overly complicated sled?
Why don't you put a small piece of angle iron on the top and the bottom, and then slide the plate in behind it
Would like to see you do the Hornady 7.62x39 subsonic 255 grain on those steel plates
How about trying some of the small diameter bungy cord / elastic cord? That way if the metal plate does bounce off the rack, it may get pulled back, and held in place! Just wrap it around the top and bottom!?
Try the magnet fishing magnets that are encased in stell. May be less likely to break. And plenty strong to magnetize the lead sled.
So a larger diameter projectile has to punch through more steel than a smaller one. Logically it would have to be moving faster.
GREAT video!!! Where can I get that Velocity Measure Device?
Whats the point of seeing if a round can penetrate 1/4 inch steel, unless your planning to shoot something behind a barrier
Neodymium is actually quite brittle. Set them 1/32 inch back from the edge. It would also help the cushion between the magnet and sled with gasket material or something similar.
LOVE the V3! Did you weld it yourself? How was it done?
Saw the first shot. Nvm
Yes, all the pieces were plasma cut and I welded everything together
Velocity is what penetrates things like steel. When you are looking at AR500 targets they are usually rated on caliber but some also state certain velocities should not be used. I have see some that say they can stop a 300 win mag but to not use a 22-250. When you first think about it things don't make sense because the 300 win mag has way more "power" but velocity is the exact reason.
So is the 350 legen better? For me to convert my ar it cost 500$ less to go whit 450 bu the 350 l. What shuld i do. Hunt deer, mose and maybe fox. 300 yards max
Good video, shows what they can do vs steel, so many other variables to, I think its all preference, comes to animals, the 450bushmaster is gonna put a bigger hole, and knock the hell out of what ever your shooting 350 legend small clean hole.
Also it would be cool to see the 30-30 vs the 350 legend even though we know what the 350 is going to do..
A more fair comparison would be the 35 Remington and the Legend. Same size bullet and close in velocity. To me, the Legend is a bolt action or AR 35 Rem. Those have been deer slayers for years.
Why didnt you shoot the 3/8 plate with the Bushy? we could have compared the bounce back......
Try 450 Bushmaster, 220 grain Lehigh Xtreme defense from Underwood ammo. Also, sectional density counts more than bullet weight for penetration.
The 450 don't go through something it just takes the something with it ! Dear hunting you are better off if it doesn't pass through! If you're escaping new York being attacked by zombies i think eather is a good choice 😅
You’re not kidding about it taking something with it, those dents were massive
@@bananaballistics i would love to build a 450 upper the only thing that holds me off on it is the brass with the 350 you can reload from your over used 556 brass like you can do with the 300 blk out witch i built a upper for all that is needed is a barrel every thing else is 5.56 compatible and then you have the 7.62x39 and that will add a twist to your build or a 9mm upper. I'm slowly trying them all when I get good deals on parts. I think the 6.8 or the 277 would be fun to try
Hey Banana, did you ever sing bass for your high-school, or college Choir??
I did not, they tried to recruit me in high school lol
Love your channel !
I'm glad I chose the legend. I just ai t feeling the blackout either. The legend is legendary 😊
As soon as you said magnets, I said "They're going to shatter on the first shot." Exactly what happened.
Saw those magnets and figured they would shatter, they are really brittle. BUT... They are also insanely powerful, so try gluing them to the sides just shy of the edge of the sled so the plate doesn't actually make contact but is close enough to be attracted. Hopefully, sled absorbs impact.
EDIT: And further in to the vid you do exactly that. Maybe I should watch to the end before commenting.. :)
I appreciate it lol!
Love your video's and witty sarcasm
expanding bullets is worst possible case against steel plate. i'd be curious to see FMJ .450 bush loads or at least plated copper against the mild steel plate
I believe the 450 bushmaster was designed to be a short range (200 yds or less) rifle for medium to large game. Great video tho!
Go to the high dive at your local city pool. Jump and do a pencil dive. Then go jump again and do a belly flop. The 450 is the belly flop. Just so happens that wiiiiide bullet that mushrooms even wider does a number on deer.
My Bushmaster has an 18 inch barrel. I also use the 250 grain Hornady Black. I wonder if my extra 2 inches would help penetrate better.
It’s very possible. I would be interested to see how much of a velocity difference there is
A couple extra inches always help you penetrate better! 😏
I've been wanting one of those Magnetospeed thingies.
If You want to use magnets than the old style alnico ones will work (except if You hit them with the projectile).
I am a bit surprised. Informative. I will say the Hornady FTX is terrible for penetration. I stopped using it because it blows up on deer let alone steel. 350 impressive. Still would take my 450 over the 350. With a Barnes TTSX they are awesome
I wonder if you could wrap the magnets in tire innertube once or twice to give it some vibration protection?
It might benefit to consider energy per square inch. Can be calculated by determining with the bullet diameter. Can probably establish a correlation on minimum requirement to penetrate.
That means 450 better hunting round will expand better and take down whatever you are shooting at.
Add a C channel on either side of the sled, be able to slide the steel in from the top?
Great show,,,very good topics,,,,and a Voice made for public speaking,,,,
Wouldn't the increased frontal area of the .450 spread out the kinetic energy over a broader area, thereby making it harder to penetrate the steel? What's the ratio of the energy at impact to the bore diameter for both rounds? There might be a break point there somewhere.
This is an explanation for the difference that you see. The kinetic energy of the bullet, K.E.= 1/2 mv2 (mass times the square of velocity). but what is important is the stress applied on the steel plate where the bullet hits. Stress= K.E./surface area. The 450 has a surface area that is 20% higher which reduces the stress by 20%. A lot of people put emphasis on the initial K.E. of the bullet but what is important is the total energy transferred to the object. if the bullet exits, then the K.E. transferred = mass(v1-v2) 2, the mass times the square of the entrance and exit velocities. The 450 has transferred all of its energy to the steel plate in the form of deformation of the plate. The350 did not and has a nice hole. This is important because killing a deer depends on total energy transfer among other things. This is why FMJ bullet are banned for hunting. My son used the 12-gauge mini slugs to kill several large deer. These are slugs with a flat front surface with 1250 ft/s velocity. None of the deer ran very far and I recovered every bullet under the skin opposite to the entrance hole. There was a lot of meat damage. Hopefully my explanation is not very confusing.
I have a 450 bushmaster with a 18 in barrel and was using a 1\4 in plate at 50 yards wasn't thinking when I used it
I would like to see a 350 legend chambered in a 12” or 10.5” barreled AR pistol. Also I really need to see a 350 legend vs 3030 Winchester steel challenge. I think that would definitely put a lot of controversy to rest.
That would be a great one. I don’t think it’s quite up there with 30-30 so I think it would be interesting
I have a 10.5” 350 legend. It only loses about 200fps over a 16” barrel for most loads, which means it’s still plenty powerful. I build mine to be the easiest/lightest deer gun I could. Locally I’ll never really have the opportunity to shoot a deer past 100yd, so having mine with a 75yd zero (which puts 50 and 100yd less than a half inch off zero) is perfect.
I have an 8 inch it runs 1950-2000fps for all weights of commercial ammo