While I do agree with most of her critiques of the beauty industry, and I do think we should be critical of aspects of dermatology, I hate the “well only using oil and honey worked for me” so it’ll work for everyone…I’ve had hormonal, cystic acne that’s really painful and scars for most of my life. The only thing that’ll help that are prescription topicals and oral medications. I’m gonna listen to doctors and not one person’s individual experience tbh.
I have used oil and honey to clean my face in my crunchier days. Did not work for me. Happily listening to derms (Dr. Dray specifically) has helped me out a ton
This one rubbed me the wrong way. She makes a lot of sweeping statements like “jojoba oil mimics your skin sebum up to 97%” and then discredits medical doctors without a medical degree herself. She also made a big deal at the beginning to talk about how she tries to be objective as a journalist and not lead with her personal experience. She then spent 10+ minutes giving skin care reccs and approaches solely based off of her experience.
Exactly! Plus she is still wearing make-up, so I do not understand the logic. I am confused on how make-up is not bothersome to her (even if it is a simple routine), but skincare is a no-no. Like yeah, absolutely, the topic of signs of aging is a good one to have. But I think there was some weird stuff about assuming skincare is only about "making sure I look young for as long as possible." Nah. I live in Ohio. I experience summer and winter. If I don't use lotions, my skin gets dry and itchy, and the dryness can get painful. If it gets too dry, that can make it more vulnerable to infections. So clearly my skin is not just somehow taking care of itself; it needs help. The air is also dry here in Ohio during winter, so I have humidifers going to keep from coughing all the time, to help my body. I don't know. I liked the rest of the chat, but her attitude toward skincare was... off-putting. I felt like she was focusing solely on people using skincare to stay looking young/aesthetics as opposed to, ya know... the care part of it.
She must not have read very far on Pubmed (probably did a lot of skimming looking for things to reinforce her viewpoint) because she thinks that oil alone can keep skin hydrated which is untrue. Oil is an occlusive and can retain moisture that is already there but if your skin barrier is damaged and/or your skin is dry, you need humectants too.
I would love to hear what Dr. Drey or other dermatologists have to say about her non- routine. But she does wear makeup…. Wonder what brand she wears for foundation or primer. So many are infused with “skin care.”
I find it compelling when a guest elicits some level of defensiveness, because it gives you something to interrogate as to why you're going to say "Yeah, but" or "Wait, what?" Chelsea had this response a few times, as did several commenters (as did I). We want to think of skincare routines and mechanisms of beauty as neutral, as necessary, and then also as things we choose to do for our health and sometimes to pamper us. We also like to think what we're doing isn't harmful or something we've been sold on; I'm not saying toss your serums or anything lol, but listening to a discussion like this can create a lot of dissonance. And then some justifications. I highly recommend digging into Jessica's newsletter and writing, because she isn't as cut and dried as an hour-long mixed convo allowed her. Along with acknowledging what she does now isn't for everyone, to me she's clearly still processing contradictions and forging a better path, while owning that, rather than dispensing absolutist advice. Also tbh I think Chelsea was so bowled over by Jessica's personal skincare stuff she kept the focus on the nuts and bolts longer than served the bigger conversation and work Jessica does--I get it, Chelsea is very open with her struggles. But it made the topic feel more about granular info and less about systemic criticism.
100%. Whenever we feel defensive we need to think deeper about why. I really enjoyed this conversation and took a lot of her message to heart. The skincare regimen game is a hamster wheel and that serves the profit holders.
I'm 63 and my skincare "routine" consists of washing my face and sometimes smoothing on a little nivea cream. I've never had any procedures or any desire to. Sometimes I wear makeup, sometimes I don't. I've never used foundation. My big investment in myself is my $50/month gym membership and it has paid off big time. I look freaking fantastic...wrinkles, saggy skin and all!
It's easy for two very young women with firm unlined skin to talk about this topic, but when you have the experience of your face aging and you look less like yourself as time goes on, it can make you panic. I'd love to see some older women talk about this. TFD, can't you provide this perspective and interview older women too? Diversity please.
I totally get wanting someone who is older to speak on this topic but how does aging make you "look less like yourself"? Your face is how you look. And interventions into that are factually NOT how you would look otherwise.
Two millennials discussing the experience of facing an aging face, while incredibly appreciated and well-intentioned, certainly rings hollow. TFD, please bring in older women, including those into their 80s and 90s, who could provide a wealth of wisdom on this subject. And @beautyismylife is right - the theoretical feels SO different than the lived experience.
As a bariatric patient, I can tell you, it is not about just getting thin. If you do your research, you will find that the surgery provides you with a tool, but we are given all kinds of pre and post-op info on changing our lifestyle as it pertains to diet and exercise. We are given healthy meal plans, and we are given exercise routines to follow. In my 20s I suffered from sleep apnea and bariatric surgery helped with that. I gained a large amount of weight from being on the depo shot (birth control) after I had my son, which did not allow me to lose my pregnancy weight & caused me to gain more weight. So no, bariatric surgery is not a scam. And just because a medication, treatment, or procedure doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it's a scam or isn't beneficial to someone else.
Maybe I misinterpreted what the guests reasoning is but rather than having no skincare routine but wear foundation and concealer, it would make more sense to have a simple skincare routine to remove scarring, uneven skin tone so u don't feel the need to wear face makeup. I don't wear makeup but I only feel confident enough to do this by looking after my skin with certain products. Our skin is exposed to alot more pollutants and chemicals than it was 200 and 20 years ago, so to not evolve with your environment can be harmful. I also think working for the karjenners has given her an extreme view of what the beauty industry is and her view is warped. American beauty trends are a lot more extreme than European beauty and we in Europe are more comfortable with seeing older women who are visibly older She also states that outside of the West, women don't engage in beauty standards as much but I would highly disagree. Colourism is rampant in Asia, Africa and LATAM with bleaching products used across all classes. I'd also argue Korean beauty standards are more toxic than West, as surgery from a young age advances your job opportunities across multiple industries All in all, I enjoyed watching this discussion, but disagreed with most of what the guest said
@@EnaGoba I've been using vitamin c and tranexmic acid (probably spelt wrong) for the past couple of years. This has got rid of scars I've had and enabled me to have bright and clear skin and I do not wear face makeup as a result
to be fair, most of the things she was talking about made little sense. the no skincare but foundation is ok thing was just the ultimate contradiction.
I think the opinions she has are pretty radical and she’s basing all the skincare/makeup arguments on her own experience and trying to present it as it’s universally valid. My vibe is that she went from one extreme to another and extremes are unhealthy.
I appreciate the majority of what Jessica is saying about skincare, but to say that the skin will just take care of itself is false, and I think it's a bit disingenuous to make a blanket statement that people don't need skincare. Especially coming from someone who is still putting on make-up. I enjoyed the rest of this conversation, but that topic just felt... odd.
Agreed. She even states herself that the reason she started her skincare obsession was because she was getting bad acne. I understand that occasional breakouts are normal, but if it’s to the point of needing to go to the dermatologist and get on accutane then it’s pretty evident that her skin wasn’t taking care of itself. Yes piling on endless products or overusing topical steroids is bad and damages your barrier, but every dermatologist I’ve heard speak about a routine encourages keeping it very simple and have also warned about not prolonging steroid treatments. It sounds to me like she went too hard one way and now she’s swinging the pendulum to total opposite way. For the vast majority of us it’s going to be somewhere in the middle.
@@katie_a1075 Exactly! I'm not into her saying that all people need is jojoba oil and water. It's just not true. No amount of drinking water and splashing water on my face is going to make my skin feel great in Ohio winter. It needs lotion, and external things to help the barrier. Water and jojoba oil is not going to stop my skin from being oily.
@@thejammiestjamAgreed. Also, nowadays it seems like anyone can search the web for five minutes and call themselves an expert or that they have done "research" in a particular área of expertise.
Meh. I think the point is that skin care products are not necessarily skin care. And since she was in child beauty pageants, she probably never had a life WITHOUT products. So that might explain why her acne was bad as a teen. Also, bad is relative. I would argue that unless there is pain or a risk of scarring medication is probably not necessary. Especially for teens. But it sounds like her parents thought her skin was bad if it wasn't... You know... Perfect ...
Agreed. And sorry to say this but I want to see how her view on this changes as she ages. If she had a radical change from earlier in her life to now, chances are it's going to continue changing based on her own body's transformations over time.
While I don’t agree with some of what was said, I do appreciate you guys bringing on people with different perspectives while still having a respectful conversation and letting each other get their points across. I do think it’s good for us to listen with an open mind, and to challenge the way we think and why we do things.
Dang it's so interesting that this struck such a nerve .... I had a very similar experience with skincare where I perceived of my skin as problematic (to be clear I have adult acne, but nothing very serious like cystic acne or anything like that) so I underwent extremely complicated skincare routines, only to have my skin truly calm down and "clear up" when I stripped back my skincare to just a gentle cleanser and moisturizer and SPF. But here's the thing - my skin never truly "cleared up", I just underwent a mindset shift where I simply didn't care that much about it anymore. I don't even know if my skin really cleared up or I'm just not obsessing over every flaw anymore. IMO, that mindset shift can be way more powerful than a "perfect" routine. I think that's more at the core of her argument here. It's certainly a challenging concept to digest but I think it's a worthwhile one to at least consider. I feel like the internet has this weird phenomenon of making people see someone living their life differently as a direct attack on the way they live their own life. I think she does acknowledge that her routine will not work for everyone but that it might be worth a try if you've exhausted everything else. Tis not an attack, ppl!!
I liked this interview to balance out some of the pro-beauty industry guests lately. A lot of the criticism in the comments seems to be that Jessica is speaking in absolutes, but that's not what I heard. I think she has a radical (as in "from the root") take on beauty, which is righteous. The beauty industry is anti-woman, and we all just need to accept that, regardless of our personal feelings. But people don't like to hear radical takes regarding things they participate in - it makes us feel defensive. That's too bad. I wish the viewers would be able to hear "over-wrought, expensive, trendy skin care routines are unnecessary, ineffective, and possibly harmful" without misconstruing that true-ass message into "I don't like that stuff, and I'm a big ol' meanie who doesn't want you to enjoy your totally awesome face creams" She literally didn't say "All I use is jojoba oil, and YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY DO THE SAME". She didn't say that. Go back and watch the video. Don't put words in her mouth. She's not attacking you.
It's about the money. It's always about the money and how large corporations conspire to get your money from you. It was bad enough before social media, but now it's relentless.
It depends on what type of social media you consume, though. There are hundreds of amazing channels on RUclips itself about frugality, spirituality, wealth building and so on. There are also thousands of channels on beauty and gaming and books and whatnot. When I was younger I was highly influenced by popular booktubers to buy a bunch of stupid, overpriced young adult books. After a while i realised how silly they were and stopped watching the channels that engaged in such shallow marketing. Social media really allows you to find your tribe and choose the lifestyle that resonates with you. You'll find influencers who encourage you to live like a monk or a billionaire playboy. It depends on you who you choose to follow.
Medicine, most especially in the US but also ever more so in the rest of the developed world, is primarily about profit. To an extent this has always been true in the US but now it's becoming very very blatant. The primary aim of the system we have is not to treat illness but make money.
I feel like she isn't really qualified to talk about skincare and dermatology. It's one thing to dissect beauty standards, and it's another to tell people to stop using skincare altogether. I don't think this is really her area of expertise. Plus, continuing to wear makeup but taking such an extreme stance on skincare seems really hypocritical to me.
But i think it‘s good if we all test the „no skincare procedure“ and see what happens with that…if it doesn‘t work you can always get back to products and medication…it‘s extremely important to educate people/women on this, too many never consider this…
I feel like Jessica falls into a trap here that so many intelligent folks fall into, which is speaking with a certain degree of absolutism which ends up inadvertently highlighting where their blind spots are. I admire her conviction but wow, there are some very broad statements being made here from a pretty myopic perspective! I don’t think any of us are immune to forgetting how truly insulated within our personal niche sphere we are; she mentions from the jump that she has spent the lions share of her life immersed in a very commercial, heteronormative beauty world, and that the place she critiques from is that of a disillusioned insider. While this means she has a lot of insight into the ills of the industry, I don’t know if she realizes how hyper-aware she seems of some of this stuff in a way that doesn’t necessarily map all that well onto the relationship with beauty culture the average person (who probably does not have the trained eye to be able to identify whether someone has had subtle work done, for instance) might have, to say nothing of how little it may intersect with that of someone who falls somewhere outside of mainstream, marketable demographics. The relationship someone who is gender non-conforming or queer has with the beauty world is likely going to be considerably different than hers, for instance. She’s absolutely right that, at the end of the day, we are all trying not to get got in the capitalist hellscape, but I don’t know. I think there’s lots of good stuff here jumbled in with plenty of stuff that comes off as an attempt to project her experiences as more universal than they are, which at times comes off as a touch sanctimonious. I’ve got mixed feelings about this one.
I so agree. Like, I question the assumption that we should be working towards not just minimized consumption, but minimized engagement with our appearance, or investment in aesthetics and self-presentation. She spoke about feeling the need to put on a full face of makeup to go to CVS, and that was framed as a dysfunctional state…….I’m sure it was for her. But I don’t think nearly enough time was spent stopping to deconstruct and sift through nuances.
I agree that her opinions certainly stemmed from her limited perspective in Ameria and her proximity to the beauty industry, and throughout I was wondering if she would make any mention of those whose experiences of/relationship to beauty standards (even that sentance itself tells on itself) ( ex: means of survival, gain validity in their gender). And while she does seem to paint the West all in the same stroke, I think she did kind of cover that base albeit not overtly, when she said we should be attempting to divest "as much as is safe and available to us". I think that as for those who see her statements about the Wests beauty standards exceeding the global standard as too broad a stroak, and I am making assumptions from my limited demographic, perspective and experiences as well, I think she may be referring moreso to women and femmes across the globe who are poor, which is ~less~ prevalent in western countries bc of their history as exploiters in the global economy. And women living in poverty must focus on survival of themselves and their family MAY or often have less resources of time or money to spend on beauty. I believe she is trying to draw attention to the fact that in many cases those in the West in relative poverty may rightfully say they need to invest in makeup and the beauty industry in order to survive (beauty seen as morality, get and maintain a job etc. bc of patriarchy) which certainly IS TRUE, which is why it is a difficult conversation to have. But I think by making that point she wants us to question what opting into these systems does for women as a whole, because (and this is my insertion here) men and patriarchy arent going to do it for us. Some of us, are MORE SAFE AND HAVE MORE AVAILABILITY to divest, and those who do (and none of us have complete availabilty and safety because patriarchy is pervasive) should make a concious effort, because as she said our actions have reverberations in our social circles and the wider picture. I think she is ultimately doing a good job of getting us to be a bit more real with ourselves. I think she certainly should have touched on that small glance we got into the limits of divestment we are allotted based on our gender identities, weight, race, class etc... BUT that SOME OF US may have alot more available to us than we want to believe relative to other women and that again ... this system is extractive of time, resources and pits women against each other (as the as she puts it 'commercialized/industralized beauty industry exists currently) .... so it is up to those who have it relatively AVAILABLE and safely to. A good example is if everyone who has extra money begins using it for Botox and this is normalized in these circles, it will become easier and easier to tell who is poor. Poverty and aging are two things that are shamed and therefore it makes class mobility even harder for poor women. Middle class women saying they need it 'because of the patriarchy' is TRUE but also COWARDLY in a way ... and we have been making excuses in the name of 'self care' and 'survival in this hellscape' when our survival isn't nearly as dire and builds barriers for other women AND ourselves along the way.. All of this is to say the systems of opporession have to be dismantled and I think, again this may be more of a note to self, but my relative place in the patriarchal hellscape is pretty decent, and further entrenching my white thin-ish societally acceptable ass self to the racist and patriarchal ideals of thinness and beauty in the west isn't helpful to those who can't divest. A woman who is active in the fight against oppressive forces who I follow on instagram @proletarianfeminist always inspires me, when she argues that fighting against oppression isn't going to feel safe and good at all times and those who have historically created materially change always accept a certain amout of INDIVIDUAL risk you have to put forward (of course balanced /coupled with real self care, protection and community) to make change for COMMUNITIES. But again, COMMUNITY, we are all a part of a whole and together slight divestments from the commercialized beauty industry as we (I, western woman sold targetted ads that even when disguised as inclusive like fat models is still to remove hair which .. as you guessed it racist history) so that we can rebuild real self expression and beauty and beauty in strength and togetherness and REJECTION of harmful systems.
Nor sure she's any more intelligent than average. She's certainly not more educated on the topics she speaks about than average, which is concerning when she's trying to give advice. I love Chelsea's choice of interviewee usually but this is only the second ever I couldn't finish (the first being The Minimalists).
i think Jessica is using a lot of straw man arguments in her critique, and her take on the beauty industry comes across as a bit simple and somewhat contradictory. there's a big lack of nuance. just because she overstressed her skin with all kinds of crazy treatments in the past, does not mean that only using jojoba oil, manuka honey and spf is the best thing for her (or others) now. she doesn't use skincare, but foundation/concealer is okay for her as long as it's "no-makeup makeup". how does that mesh with her belief that putting more stuff on your skin is bad for it? you can criticize the beauty industry and beauty standards without thinking you know more than literal doctors who specialize in skin. there will always be people seeking to maximize profits by selling you shit that you don't need (as in any industry), but that doesn't mean that dermatology is a scam.
When she talked about make up, she didn't say it was "ok" per se, just that she struggles with going without because of the nature of her job. Whereas with the skincare, she can moreso do it the way she wants to or thinks is best. Which were the strawmen arguments you found? (this is not meant to be combative, I am interested)
You hit the nail on the head. It honestly reminds me of people who say that their psych meds ruined their lives, and now they just meditate and drink green juice and they feel soooooo much better. Like….good for you girl, you figured out something that works FOR YOU. Honestly what she’s doing reminds me of beauty journalists who rave about their 10 step routines. Either way, it’s such a personal choice built on an incredibly personal situation - how your unique skin reacts to various things. People with good skin (ie, skin that just needs SPF and water) are so out of touch with those of us who have actual skin issues 🙄
I think it is important to notice that this is her experience, and a unique one at that. Using topical steroids isnt normal in the EU for example. Her having experience and "looking into" how skin works isn't the same as having a PhD. Some people have conditions where using no skincare/cosmetics isnt going to help, even though the skin is "designed" to work a certain way. I think she has a good message about critiquing the beauty industry as a whole, but the message gets heavily skewed when she basically aligns herself with this 'clean beauty' ethos.. 🤷🏻♀️
I think we forget when we see celebrities shame aging signs or try to ward it off. Smile lines, crows feet, not using a straw and trying to keep your facial features neutral to avoid wrinkles. Like goddamn it's a privilege to even age at all some people aren't on this earth long enough to have those wrinkles you hate so bad
For me, moving to Denmark has been such a revelation in terms of discovering how much I have been relying on makeup to construct a type of external persona I wanted to project to the world. I have been using less and less make-up and making my beauty routines simpler just because I am surrounded by a culture that is not as obsessed with beautification as I was used to. The Danes are so wonderfully practical and I am happy about what that culture switch has awarded me. I just spend less brainpower on appearance.
I had severe and painful acne for 16 years. Plenty of that time was spent trying to let my skin sort itself out. It didn’t. I am incredibly thankful for the results I’ve achieved with medication from my dermatologist, I am in less pain and I am happier with the way my skin feels. I will always have deep scarring from the 16 years of letting it work itself out though and I wish I had done more sooner. I don’t think acne is inherently bad, I don’t think it is indicative of the level of care you have for yourself, and I can still appreciate that it doesn’t hurt to touch my face. I don’t have my students grabbing at my acne anymore. If you haven’t dealt with significant skill issues it probably is really easy to just let it work itself out, but sometimes it just doesn’t.
Totally agree! It always bothers me when people are boastful about not using any products and treatments on their skin. It's an (often) unintended jab at those of us that have dealt with real skin issues that really benefit from medical intervention.
Genetics mainly dictate whether one can be carefree without medical intervention. I have rosacea and acne-prone skin that will likely never sort itself out. The sooner these issues get treated the better the outcomes.
I tried lots of natural acne remedies without success when I was a teen. What worked was the Vicky anti-imperfection routine and my hormones sorting themselves out. I have a fairly good skin now, combination with the occasional pimple, but I have friends who still struggle with acne at 40. I would never dream of telling them what to do with their medical condition when I have a clear skin with no lines most of the time. I can put on olive oil and vaseline most times without problem, it's not the case for many people.
@@jubi0622 Yes! Bragging about not needing skincare is like bragging about not needing student loans. Both things just mean you lucked into something (good skin/wealth) that not everyone has a chance at.
At the end of the day, it is extremely healthy to question our choices and work to ensure that they are indeed our own and not simply a reaction to oppression or our own self rejection. As long as that is part of your routine, do what makes you feel well served so you can show up in the best way possible.
I’m so glad you had Jessica on! I’ve been following her newsletter The Unpublishable for months. I am not totally anti-product (I use cleanser, moisturizer, tretinoin) but reading her content has totally sharpened my critical eye towards the beauty industry . Even if you can’t get behind her “no product” stance, I think her content is amazing if you keep an open mind. I highly recommend the newsletter.
Enhancement can be empowering but let's be real, the beauty industry is downright predatory. Influencers who push trends like buccal fat removal, butt implants, etc..need to take a look at how they profit from pushing these trends on their audiences. Consumers need to take a step back and proceed with caution.
This topic got me thinking about how I was as a teen and young adult. I tried so hard to be like "other girls" by getting into make up and beauty products. However, the older I got the more I realized that the issues that I had with my skin and eyes were due to what I was putting on it. The less product I used the better my skin looked. It made me realize the need for makeup was not needed. Also, as I focus on my health (i.e. exercise and eating better) my skin is looking better.
Her take on dermatology is a bad one. Seeing a derm and getting recommended clinically proven products changed my skin so much. Yes, I spend way more on products but i'd rather spend money on stuff that works than have skin that looked inflamed, felt tight and looked oily. And 'not using any products' like she suggests isn't an option.
Exactly. I have eczema and the only way to keep it in check is by using anti inflammatory creams prescribed by my dermatologist as well as heavy moisturizers
like it or not, jessica made SO many solid points. beauty is an intangible commodity; it’s all about power. we are often marketed products that feed into our insecurities and/or reinforce power structures. jessica wasn’t telling us all to toss our products out immediately, she was suggesting a perspective shift: consider a world where you aren’t consuming and plucking and shaving and tweezing and lasering and scrubbing and filling and glossing and powdering and imagine you’re able to just be… no product to by, no one else’s gaze to worry about.
I really appreciated the points brought up in this interview as well. A lot of comments here seem to be taking aim at Jessica for not following what she "preaches" to a tee, but I didn't get the sense that she was trying to preach anything. To me it felt more like encouraging different ways of thinking about the current beauty and skincare narrative for ourselves. It doesn't seem like she has it "all figured out" nor like she is trying to pretend that she does, but that she's just trying to reflect on these things for herself and challenge more people to do the same for themselves. Reading through the comments I wondered if I had totally missed the mark, but it looks like you had a similar take away as well. It's really interesting how we can all watch the same interview and have such different interpretations of it. Looks like most are in agreement that this is a great topic for discussion though!
Agree. I think the interviewer was a little bit unprofessional and not leveling with her in a fair way; looking at the camera in a pointed way when the guest said a couple of things, responding with questions that seem intended to "catch" her when she could have just said, "I see what you mean, but I disagree because..." The guest was not 100% without some small flaws in her claims, and I think she did go too far into medical information that is really territory for a doctor, but it is clear that she is not trying to manipulate anyone or intentionally make self-serving arguments as far as I could see here.
No, it is NOT the norm to be offered Botox or unsolicited aesthetic services at the dermatologist office!! I'm sick of "journalists" like herself preaching about her own "research" and dermatology like she has had years of training in this area. Stick to talking about about societal beauty standards and the associated effects rather than talking about dermatology. A lot of info off of articles on PubMed can be misinterpreted and taken out of context.
There are so many skin conditions that require dermatological intervention. Acne scarring for example leaves physical and psychological scars. A good dermatologist can be a lifesaver for this and many other skin issues. This person isn't a doctor so I'm gonna take her skincare opinions with a grain of salt.
I'm a person with severe acne scars who is considering dermatological intervention. However, I do not believe that I "require" dermatoligical intervention, I want it. Scars are not medically dangerous, they just make us feel ugly. Medically treating scars is cosmetics surgery that is done to adhere to beauty standards. Again, I'll likely get this done, but I think it's disingenuous to call it anything other than cosmetic surgery.
@@MichiruEll I'm happy that you feel it's a choice. For many acne scars carry psychological scars as well as physical ones. For those that do, it's a life saver. I hope your treatment goes wel.
She is a bit contradictory in her reasoning especially referencing ancient indigenous cultures. I’m sure there was a form of skincare and beauty regimen along with pigments (ochre) that was used for enhancing both beauty and status depending upon the Indigenous group. Not to forget body alternating such as the Kayan people practicing neck banding. So people throughout history have altered their skin both temporary and permanent for different reasons, including a cultural beauty standards.
So I grew up as a competitive swimmer and as a result of my experience never learned how to do my hair, makeup, nails etc. because I didn’t see the point of ruining it in the pool every day. At this point (nearing 30) I still don’t care to learn. I look alright, the idea of adding all this time to my daily life makes my adhd brain go “nope”, and I (very thankfully) feel valued in my community regardless of my looks.
My cousin was a competitive swimmer through college, and had classic dead pool hair- she was once stopped by another woman in the grocery store who wanted to know where she'd gotten her "frosted tips" done "because her hair looked so good." lol
The cost of what is expected beauty maintenance has skyrocketed. I see a lot of women spending money they don't have on their hair/skin/nails, etc. It is a real financial drain.
Bravo for Jessica and her critiques and crusades. I think it gives Jessica credibility that she's being critical as someone who has been in the industry and doesn't completely hate it.This is coming at a time when. I am fed. up with rich celebs doing side hustles of pushing make up. and skin care products.
I agree, it really is time to put some effort into self-awareness about who we are as human beings rather than year in year out following yet another mindless trend on how to shape your eyebrows or plump your lips and what style of jeans is in. It's so trivial for it to be such a huge factor in society.
in an ideal world the human skin renews itself, but the reality is that human activities contribute to additional dust particles in the air. That's why a cleanser is needed and sunscreen is essential even when you're indoors.
I feel much the same as a lot of people on this. I think the thing that made me uncomfortable wasn't the ideology, but the presentation as - 'I did my research and [insert opinion]'. I can fully understand if she had that trauma of a bad doctor essentially melting her face off that that trauma would colour her entire opinion. But, one bad doctor doesn't make every doctor in that industry bad. I think the point I have just stopped this video and am like. I'm unsure if I can continue. Is the sprouting just easily checkable and incorrect information - skin life cycle. Skin lifecycle is 28 days... in teenagers, but actually increases as you age. That's what Vitamin A such as a retinol does, it chemically increases that turn around time so it mimics younger cells. But as you age it goes from that 28 to over 80 days when you're over 50. And that information isn't something that's hard to research, you can google it and get scientifically backed sources that agree on this point. It just sort of gives the feeling that everything else she's 'researched' has been very surface level. Like if its all worked for her and she's happy with her life journey. Power on to her, and she should feel happy and confident to share that journey. But reframe the conversation from these are facts, to, these are my opinions.
I find skincare so much irritating than makeup. And this is not uncommon. Lots of skincare only serves to compromise skin barrier. I think this is what she was getting at.
I'm glad that whatever she's doing is working for her, but I think that the attitude that that's a one size fits all solution is a problem. I also grew up with severe dermatitis, specifically eczema. Since the time I was two, caring for my skin has been a struggle because if you know anything about eczema, you know it is a permanent impairment of the skin's moisture barrier. I've had rashes over 90% of my body at times. I have tried jojoba oil -- which is expensive, btw, as far as oils go -- and it did not work for me. For me it was about finding the right products. I found a Vaseline lotion that works so well I only need to apply once a da instead of having to reapply multiple times. My face -- which was the most consistent and demoralizing problem areas -- finally cleared up after I started investing in more quality skincare. I'm glad that what worked for her worked for her, but not everything can be solved by "just letting your skin do its thing".
Excuse me? She only moisturizes with jojoba oil? The skin cleanses, moisturizes and protects itself? Any dermatologist (cosmetic or otherwise) will tell you we need three products: a cleanser, a moisturizer, and a sunscreen that we'll use every single day. Not everyone in the beauty industry is "out to get us".
Yeah, I didn't understand how she wears foundation but doesn't clean her face. So, how does she sufficiently remove her makeup? And sunscreen is a non-negotiable. Even cultures who live without western products use things like thick mud as a sunscreen. And most people would have cracked painful skin and skin that over-produces sebum to compensate leading to acne if they didn't use moisturizer. Absolutely bizarre.
I don't think she always wears foundation, and more recent studies have shown that cleansing our faces less frequently might be beneficial to the skin, unless the skin is exposed to a lot of dirt or you are a regular make-up wearer. I rarely wear make-up and so do not need to wash my face on a daily basis, and at times only moisturise with oil, most commonly a rosehip oil. I've never had happier, more balanced skin and people frequently compliment me on it.
@@deerfoxcat that's true, to some extent. Many derms I follow say that a morning cleanse may not be necessary, especially if you have dry skin. But an evening cleanse is, since we have accumulated pollution, grime, etc from the day that needs removing.
sweet bb jesus ive been telling ppl about how skincare truly is a capitalist scam, for years, and oftentimes im being laughed at! great great great interview, loved this guest so much
Yes! Totally, I tried some of facial wash and sunscreens different brands and either of them makes me breakout, eczema, and fungal acne. They are making us sicker, after only using water as skincare my skin feels better just in 2 weeks! Literally many people didn't use skincare and they are okay, also the real skincare is veggies, fruits, and hitting the gym
@@ohlomi114 yesss you're absolutely right! btw fungal acne is so real its like the skin cannot handle all of this bullshit lol but also hormones can be real mean (acne once a month), but still i find any skincare products have never really done any difference with that, ever
Interesting discussion but a lot of what she says is just plain wrong. For example, doctors do not equate being skinny with being healthy. They look at a range of evidence and indicators when assessing a patient. If doctors tell you to lose weight, it's because they believe your weight is contributing to your health issue and reducing it will help alleviate your symptoms. It's not about trying to get you to be skinny so you fit into the beauty standard. However you spin it, being overweight can have negative consequences on your health. Your weight is a significant risk factor for a variety of illnesses, and getting it to a healthy level does reduce your risks.
I'm gonna guess that you have never been overweight? I had a doctor tell me to lose weight when I was a teenager (I was 5'7" and 180 pounds) after I sprained my ankle. Weight had NOTHING to do with my injury (I twisted my ankle on stepping stones in my yard) and this was a walk-in clinic where the doctor didn't know anything about me. He looked at me and just ASSUMED that I was unhealthy.
@@justanotherjessica I've been overweight or obese for the majority of my life. I understand there are quack/lazy doctors that attribute everything to weight, which is demeaning and wrong. However, this doesn't change the fact that body weight remains a large factor (no pun intended), in creating and worsening a variety of health issues.
Personally I find aesthetic self expression to be just a fulfilling as any other form of self expression. But I do agree can decouple it from consumption.
This was such a good episode. Love the idea of doing nothing to your skin for a while. I've noticed that seeing a dermatologist and stepping back on the number of products I use has helped a lot. Also shout out to Chelsea for speaking so much about skincare and going to the dermatologist because it really has been a game changer.
It’s an interesting conversation and I would’ve liked to hear it extend to the ways meeting a beauty standard affects your employment prospects, relationships, etc. There are tangible benefits to being seen as beautiful.
Re dermatologists hawking beauty treatments, I was sickened last week to receive an email from Mt. Sinai hospital (preeminent hospital in NYC) announcing that the (Yale-educated) dermatologist my 92-year-old mother has seen for the last 8 years for annual skin scans and assorted biopsies, has been re-branded a "cosmetic care dermatologist," and will now be offering COOL-SCULPTING! "Take the first step toward achieving your body-contouring goals. Cool sculpting is a Food and Drug Administration-approved, non-surgical fat reduction treatment. Controlled cooling is used to reduce stubborn fat pockets that are resistant to diet and exercise. There is no recovery time and you can go back to work immediately. In our practice, treatments are directly supervised by a licensed dermatologist, which is an advantage over treatments performed in a spa." Obviously this is more profitable to Mt. Sinai than serving elderly patients on Medicare (who often must waits months for an appointment). But frankly, I'm embarrassed for Mt. Sinai and especially for this particular dermatologist. A really bad look (no pun intended).
After I heard what happened to Linda Evangelista I can’t believe cool sculpting is still legal. It’s totally unethical. It’s permanently disfiguring people, and they don’t even know why! And I still see ads for it on RUclips constantly!
Fascinating discussion. I didn't agree with everything Jessica said but I found her very interesting and passionate. Not sure that I agree with the idea that my skin can take care of itself. I have sensitive skin and use a minimum of products but In the winter it just gets really dry because I walk outside a lot and it doesn't fix itself. I need a good serum or moisturizer.
Love this discussion from TFD family and the guest. I really liked hearing from this guest. Taking about different approaches to “living in a society.” There’s no one size fits all perspective, but I feel like her POV was nice to hear.
Chelsea was doing funny Jim-from-the-office looks to camera during this one, the best one was right after Jessica says she doesn't have a skincare routine. Great interview! (and also don't stop Jimming, it was great to get that unfiltered reaction)
I've also gone through steroid cream withdrawal and it was a whole time. Since then, my skincare "routine" has consisted of a colloidal oatmeal moisturiser and an oil cleanser for makeup days. Almost all skincare products for me are just potential irritators. The Unpublishable is also really great! Great interview.
On the topic of journalistic objectivity, I’d recommend reading Lorraine Daston’s Objectivity, which goes into the history of objectivity and how or if we can remove ourselves from our observations. It’s a fantastic read. It blew my friggin mind.
The Space Sector and the female STEM and Space Influencers have been left untouched by the corruption of beauty as power to point to in my opinion. This is exactly why this industry is not as mainstream.
These comments, smh. Everyone who says well she doesn't know more than doctors: guys she went to doctors, she had serious skin problems from childhood, and everything aggravated her condition. When she talks about skincare being permanent, shes talking about surgeries (obvi). When she says not using skincare, she means the overconsumption of products, she still uses something simple to clean, to hydrate and protect from the sun, and she never says people should top going to a dermatologist, just that like a lot of the medical industry, a large part has been tainted by corporate greed. Jesus.
Old woman here- 63 yo. Regarding the genetic advantage, my 97 yo mother is in hospice now, but her skin is still beautiful. Very few wrinkles (significantly less than me) despite never 'caring' for her skin except moisturizer.I grew up in a community where beauty culture was something other people did, seen as somewhat frivolous but harmless. It did not prepare me for the larger society's beauty focus. Perhaps as a result, I have always cared more about what I and other people wear than about makeup, hair styles and all the rest.
I got a bit suspicious when Jessica said that she wouldn't go to the shops without a full face of makeup. Can we have guests who are starting from the middle ground and not go from one extreme to the other? It is clear that she is absolutist and her "solutions" are all of nothing. I will carry on with my routine (which is minimal and inexpensive) because I know that UV light is harmful and I need a sunscreen that is tested. I do have a pack of cosmetic grade zinc oxide in my house, but making my own sunscreen will never be as homogeneous and reliable as buying it in the drugstore. That is considering that I do have a very good understanding of chemistry (but I'm not a cosmetic chemist) and I'm more qualified than most in making my own cosmetics, but I do not have the resources and equipment for making stuff that is consistent and aseptic.
I haver never had eczema in my life. But i spent 2 years trying every trendy chemical exfoliant on the market. I used chemical exfoliants 3-4 days a week. Today my skin is litterally destroyed. Eczema flairups are uncontrollable. I know we can't really link eczema to one thing. But i do believe following skincare trends had a huge impact, e.g., wanting glass skin and hence using acids to smooth bumps. Please leave your skin alone.
Based on my experince, I tried some of facial wash and sunscreens different brands and either of them makes me breakout, eczema, and fungal acne. I finally decide to only using water as skincare my skin feels better just in 2 weeks! The real skincare is veggies, fruits, and hitting the gym
@thefinancialdiet this makes me think so much about the intersection between the beauty industry and food! And how much the food industry not only props up the pharmaceutical companies, but also the beauty industry by making so many people have skin problems
As a person that buys no beauty products I had to tell myself that "this a hobby for them" otherwise I'd get judgemental when I should not. Not everyone has the same hobby. I don't understand or feel any interest at all but who am I to criticize people doing their hobbies? Beauty products are just the cost of their hobbies like surfers buy surfboards. Does the surfer industry exploit surfers?
I see where you're coming from, but this comparison isn't very accurate. A ton of people use makeup not because they love it, but cuz they feel like the have to... even if they prefer not to have the added expense/time waste in their lives.
I think makeup can be a hobby for ppl but a lot of women wear makeup because if they didn't they would be treated differently. Some work places require you to look a certain way. Also some ppl have acne and need products with medicinal ingredients I don't think it's a hobby for them.
I somewhat disagree (love this interview though and the interviewee). When she says that makeup was used as a community tool to show one’s place in community … it sounded like a cute way to say it shows your societal place in the hierarchy of who’s who. Just my opinion. But loved this interview and respect her insightful view of beauty.
I think it is fair to have a follow up with women that have lived longer. However, I appreciate these conversations because we are in a space where women can analyze the influence of popular culture and make more informed decisions.
I also had to learn to live the jojoba oil way because I just have to honor the fact that I am sensitive and require simplicity and gentleness. Now I am facing aging, seeing my face change and my hair grey, and I'm okay. I'm just going to do my best by this body while I can and just watch it change with grace. This coming from a woman that was way over identified with beauty. Now it's a relief to dress for myself and I find great joy in styling my thrift finds.
There is a balance between using products to help your skin stay clear, since it is natural that your skin will develop blemishes and pimples due to hormones and outside influences, and letting your skin naturally heal itself. In my opinion, the perfectly clear and smooth hydrated skin that is seen by everyone as healthy and natural is actually not the way your face is supposed to look day to day. That look is something you have to work for and it’s unfair to yourself and your skin to expect it to just get to that point by itself without product intervention.
I went to a new dentist recently and on the intake forms were questions about how I felt about my teeth whiteness and would I like teeth whitening. I went for an annual checkup and X rays
Haha you're right. She puts on foundation and concealer but doesn't wash it off?! No wonder she needs concealer. She might use less if she cleanses and moisturizes.
I am confused as to what a "no skincare routine" is as she said she had no skincare routine but then went on to talk about what her skincare routine was. The conversation was in general very interesting. Thank you!
I feel like the body modification community is really good at using temporary and permanent modifications to exert bodily autonomy and signal culture inclusion…and defy conventional beauty standards.
This guest made a lot of sweeping generalizations in eloquently stated logical fallacies to assert her position. And that's the danger, she starts with a kernel of truth and then goes left.
As someone who never wears makeup but loves skincare and finally feels comfortable (physically and visually) in her own skin, this is such a bizarre conversation 😅
Ppl are so deep in the rabbit hole that they are triggered by the mere thought of her suggesting derms may be corrupt and the skin is self healing with some oils.
Wow I'm not sure I've had such a "YESSSS!!! "and "um, not at all ...that's just being human" emotional reaction to an interview before. I subscribed to my first substack so I'm riveted to learn more from her! I also love Lorrie Hill and somehow missed Chelsea interviewed her so I'll go find that next.
Madonna choosing to alter her appearance in opposition of beauty standards is misguided. As a fan of hers for decades she has most certainly been trying to just fight age. To preserve the youth she feels inside. To maintain her appearance because her work demands it. I think she likely started trying to did something here and there and it got out of hand as celebrities are prone to. I think her stylists are awful and add horrible hair, makeup, and clothing choices that make her look worse. She’s clearly swollen and recovering from a procedure. You should check her Twitter out because the swelling has gone down and she looks somewhat human again. I don’t think Madonnas skin care line is even available anymore. The public has been brutal to Madonna since the beginning but particularly around 88-early 90s. Michael Jackson’s face was wrecked when he was about 40. And I think they talk way more crap about her now. She won’t be appreciated again until she’s gone.
So glad I don’t wear makeup. I don’t shave. And I’m a tomboy woman, I don’t pay this shit no mind, it can be hard but it’s worth it to not get caught up in this shit
The conflation of beauty routine and hygiene routine rub me the wrong way. A lot of beauty products are unnecessary, sure but the skin does not clean itself. Sebum production and sweat do not rid the skin of bacteria and can often harbor bacteria if there is an excessive amount. Hair care is similar, many haircare products are unnecessary but washing your body and hair are necessary to prevent various conditions and keep your body healthy. I do not care about beauty to be honest so I'm already "divested" if you want to call it that, but many of the things she said were just wrong and it's weird to see a writer take her own experience and apply that logic to everyone. Yeah...early humans didn't use skincare or many of the products we have today and they probably had skin issues and less than pleasant odor. Why would we want the same?? Also your body does a lot of things but keeping itself "beautiful" is not a priority. The body tries to keep itself healthy but healthy does not always mean beautiful by today's standards (even though people conflate the two which is a whole different topic)
At 18:12 the guest says that the only way we perceive ourselves in relation to the outside world is through our skin, but we perceive via sight, smell and hearing too. Touch and taste I’ll give to skin 😉
Something I realized from a very young age is how much work self described "low-maintenance" women put into their appearance. They would say "I only spend 20 minutes getting ready in the morning, but then outline a beauty routine that included a facial scrub, moisturizer, light foundation, eye liner, styling mouse, and a curling iron. As someone with executive dysfunction I can spend 5 minutes just looking for my hairbrush.
Same! I’m truly low maintenance bc im chronically ill. I barely so my skincare routine and overall my skin is fine?! I definitely notice a difference if I do take better care of it but I’m lucky to have unproblematic skin. But overall most ppl who are low maintenance still largely opt in. I’ve had to opt p hardcore bc taking a shower can be exhausting most days
The new trend is the concept of “high maintenance to be low maintenance”, in which many people go out and invest serious money and time on certain specific beauty regimens, so that daily, they don’t have to “do much”. This can include gel manicures, tanning sessions, hair straightening, teeth whitening, eyelash extensions, tattoo makeup, Invisaligners, and a whole host of other things. So while they might be preaching to IG that they only spend 10 minutes in the morning getting ready, the truth of it is that they’re dropping bank on this stuff, and they have several maintenance appointments per month. It’s a well crafted lie.
Madonna is not a pushing against existing beauty standards, she’s combating ageism, which she’s explicitly said numerous times. There’s overlap yes, however I think her statements on aging are a bit more poignant than people are acknowledging. She’s talking not even just about women, but people aging and still being authentic to who they are. The pretensions of being “mature”. Assuming roles and behavior society deems acceptable for your age. People telling her she shouldn’t do xyz because she’s a certain age, and the pushback is even louder because she’s a woman. The way Madonna is, is who she is, but because she’s older and engages in behavior people say a woman her age shouldn’t, her actual presence is being policed. This about what constitutes acceptable behavior for elders and the line between being who you are, still enjoying the same things (if you can still do them), and not being attacked because of it. I know women in their 50’s now who won’t allow themselves to enjoy things they used to simply because they would be criticized for their age. Madonna is punk and will always be punk. She’s not playing the old maid and bowing out silently because she’s 64 and people can’t stand it lol
how is getting a BBL "combating ageism"? how is filling your face to the brink of popping, so as to smooth out every semblance of a line combating agism? more like "combating aging", but in a "punk" way as you say.
She can say and do poignant things, but the fact stands that she has a skincare brand lol. She is a wheel in the beauty industry machine, which is not very punk if you ask me
@@axreason Cosmetics VS behavior. Reread my statement slowly, my point is outlined clearly. You all are misrepresenting her stance to fit your own agenda. Madonna has consistently been attacked for her behavior, and everyone is attacking her because she gets the same youth preservation surgeries that all the other girls get. Make it make sense?
I love almost all TFD interviews but this one really struck a chord and made me think about why I'm doing what I'm doing in terms of beauty. Very insightful and thought provoking. Thanks Chelsea and Jessica.
If skin was able to take of itself, then the field of dermatology wouldn't exist. Would we say that about any other medical category? High spf sunscreen, moisturizer and retinol (if you want to *slow* down aging) are almost necessary and we are very priviledged to have access to all this Information and take care of our skin optimaly. Yes, it's an industry and a very insidious one at that, especially because skincare is the it thing nowadays more than ever, but there are many affordable, non-luxury options that work great. It's not a zero sum game.
I used jojoba oil on my baby after bath, with the knowledge of its closeness to sebum so the best option for babies, right? Wrong. My baby's skin became DRY their 1st month. I stopped and used a baby moisturizer with simple non harmful ingredients. Their skin recovered in 3 days and started striving after a week and ever since. Sometimes what is generally good is not good for your particular situation.
That's because oil is an occlusive but not a humectant. So it retains moisture that is already there but doesn't add any moisture to the skin. A lot of people who use oil to "moisturize" have really dry skin under the oil.
You can’t “reject beauty standards by making yourself look young and pretty. If you reject them, you should look like someone who doesn’t care what beauty standards are and what they themselves look like. Madonna isn’t rejecting beauty standards, Marilyn Manson is.
Comments were more entertaining than the video lol. I do think Washing face is necessary especially if you wear makeup and using a spf and mousturizer. I am curious if humans are the only animals that struggle with acne.
I used to be the kind of person who never left the house without make-up and that's not an exaggeration, but now I hardly ever wear it. I probably wear make-up around once a year, sometimes not even that, and It's truly one of the best things I've done for myself. Now I can just wake up, pull on some clothes, put on suncream and leave the house, whereas before I lost at least an hour every morning putting it on, more thinking about whether it was ok throughout the day and retouching it, and then even more time washing it off at night, not to mention the money I spent. It's truly been liberating. Furthermore, because I'm not continuously applying and washing off make-up, or using products to counteract the effects of it on my skin, my skin itself is so much better. And most significantly, when I wake up, the face I see in the mirror doesn't strike me as abnormal and I feel comfortable with my own face, whereas before that wasn't the case and I would be horrified by the sight it without make-up. The only times I've found it challenging is when other people have made comments about it, when I feel like I SHOULD be wearing it but am not, or when I'm on a night out and feel much plainer than others because make-up is now worn in a more exaggerated manner than in the past, such as in the case of overlining, and so on. The desire to wear it again never comes from me, only from external pressures, but it would be very easy to confuse the idea that I was wearing it to feel ok as me with the idea that I was wearing it for me.
She must have naturally good skin. I have finally gotten a handle on my skin, meaning it is no longer painful. Edit: I got to the point where she addressed her skin directly and she clearly damaged her skin barrier. Do not go straight to a dermatologist, start with a very basic routine. For me that means warm wet washcloth in the morning followed by Clinique super defense with spf 40. The ordinary squalene cleanser taken off with a warm wet washcloth at night and followed by Clinique moisture surge. I do use other things but if I see any issues I pare down to that and it helps immediately.
Yes!! I know it's different for everyone, but rosehip oil literally transformed my skin. tried all the $50+ creams over the years and still had moderate (but consistent) acne. Started using rosehip oil and a gentle cleanser a few years ago and my skin is the best it's been since I was a kid.
This was interesting! I didn’t think she was being prescriptive for other people’s routines, I think she was just using her current routine as an example of how much she’s cut back. Everyone’s going to have to find the specifics that works for them- but probably the truth remains that you actually need less than you’re being taught by ads/media/skinfluencers etc. it seems like other commenters are getting turned off by her specific routine, but that’s not really the point I think she was trying to make. I think her message was more just to check in with yourself and not just be at the whims of larger power structures that want to control you for their benefit
My skin is incredibly sensitive so as a teen I tried to use some products for hormonal acne and then had to stop pretty fast. Birth control and aging helped with that (it wasn't too bad tbh) but I realized any time over the years when I got sucked into using a product (no matter how expensive or how mild) it would cause issues. SO for like a decade now, I use water and then birth control. I occasional get a zit, but I use an on-the-spot cream for that. And that's it. People are always so horrified, but I wondered if the product cycle is what messed up a lot of people (though definitely not everyone!). It's also worth noting I don't wear any face makeup and rarely some eye makeup.
While I do agree with most of her critiques of the beauty industry, and I do think we should be critical of aspects of dermatology, I hate the “well only using oil and honey worked for me” so it’ll work for everyone…I’ve had hormonal, cystic acne that’s really painful and scars for most of my life. The only thing that’ll help that are prescription topicals and oral medications. I’m gonna listen to doctors and not one person’s individual experience tbh.
Yeah, my hormonal acne often doesn't look very bad. But it hurts like hell and my whole chin swells up. As far as I'm concerned that's medical.
I have used oil and honey to clean my face in my crunchier days. Did not work for me. Happily listening to derms (Dr. Dray specifically) has helped me out a ton
@@gracenagel love Dr. Dray!
I love your videos! Hope you are doing well.
Exactly. That's when I stopped listening to her.
This one rubbed me the wrong way. She makes a lot of sweeping statements like “jojoba oil mimics your skin sebum up to 97%” and then discredits medical doctors without a medical degree herself. She also made a big deal at the beginning to talk about how she tries to be objective as a journalist and not lead with her personal experience. She then spent 10+ minutes giving skin care reccs and approaches solely based off of her experience.
Exactly! Plus she is still wearing make-up, so I do not understand the logic. I am confused on how make-up is not bothersome to her (even if it is a simple routine), but skincare is a no-no. Like yeah, absolutely, the topic of signs of aging is a good one to have. But I think there was some weird stuff about assuming skincare is only about "making sure I look young for as long as possible." Nah. I live in Ohio. I experience summer and winter. If I don't use lotions, my skin gets dry and itchy, and the dryness can get painful. If it gets too dry, that can make it more vulnerable to infections. So clearly my skin is not just somehow taking care of itself; it needs help. The air is also dry here in Ohio during winter, so I have humidifers going to keep from coughing all the time, to help my body. I don't know. I liked the rest of the chat, but her attitude toward skincare was... off-putting. I felt like she was focusing solely on people using skincare to stay looking young/aesthetics as opposed to, ya know... the care part of it.
I felt the same as she was discussing that particular topic.
Yeah she read some pubmed articles so she knows more than actual doctors ?
She must not have read very far on Pubmed (probably did a lot of skimming looking for things to reinforce her viewpoint) because she thinks that oil alone can keep skin hydrated which is untrue. Oil is an occlusive and can retain moisture that is already there but if your skin barrier is damaged and/or your skin is dry, you need humectants too.
I would love to hear what Dr. Drey or other dermatologists have to say about her non- routine. But she does wear makeup…. Wonder what brand she wears for foundation or primer. So many are infused with “skin care.”
I find it compelling when a guest elicits some level of defensiveness, because it gives you something to interrogate as to why you're going to say "Yeah, but" or "Wait, what?" Chelsea had this response a few times, as did several commenters (as did I). We want to think of skincare routines and mechanisms of beauty as neutral, as necessary, and then also as things we choose to do for our health and sometimes to pamper us. We also like to think what we're doing isn't harmful or something we've been sold on; I'm not saying toss your serums or anything lol, but listening to a discussion like this can create a lot of dissonance. And then some justifications.
I highly recommend digging into Jessica's newsletter and writing, because she isn't as cut and dried as an hour-long mixed convo allowed her. Along with acknowledging what she does now isn't for everyone, to me she's clearly still processing contradictions and forging a better path, while owning that, rather than dispensing absolutist advice. Also tbh I think Chelsea was so bowled over by Jessica's personal skincare stuff she kept the focus on the nuts and bolts longer than served the bigger conversation and work Jessica does--I get it, Chelsea is very open with her struggles. But it made the topic feel more about granular info and less about systemic criticism.
Yes! Loved this comment. Her newsletter rocks
100%. Whenever we feel defensive we need to think deeper about why. I really enjoyed this conversation and took a lot of her message to heart. The skincare regimen game is a hamster wheel and that serves the profit holders.
I'm 63 and my skincare "routine" consists of washing my face and sometimes smoothing on a little nivea cream. I've never had any procedures or any desire to. Sometimes I wear makeup, sometimes I don't. I've never used foundation. My big investment in myself is my $50/month gym membership and it has paid off big time. I look freaking fantastic...wrinkles, saggy skin and all!
It's easy for two very young women with firm unlined skin to talk about this topic, but when you have the experience of your face aging and you look less like yourself as time goes on, it can make you panic. I'd love to see some older women talk about this. TFD, can't you provide this perspective and interview older women too? Diversity please.
would love an interview with Angie from hotandflashy.
I totally get wanting someone who is older to speak on this topic but how does aging make you "look less like yourself"? Your face is how you look. And interventions into that are factually NOT how you would look otherwise.
Couldn’t agree more with your comment. This whole discussion is actually about how our culture views and rejects older women.
Two millennials discussing the experience of facing an aging face, while incredibly appreciated and well-intentioned, certainly rings hollow. TFD, please bring in older women, including those into their 80s and 90s, who could provide a wealth of wisdom on this subject. And @beautyismylife is right - the theoretical feels SO different than the lived experience.
@@AthalieM seriously!!??? You can’t comprehend how aging … changes what you look like? Wow.
As a bariatric patient, I can tell you, it is not about just getting thin. If you do your research, you will find that the surgery provides you with a tool, but we are given all kinds of pre and post-op info on changing our lifestyle as it pertains to diet and exercise. We are given healthy meal plans, and we are given exercise routines to follow. In my 20s I suffered from sleep apnea and bariatric surgery helped with that. I gained a large amount of weight from being on the depo shot (birth control) after I had my son, which did not allow me to lose my pregnancy weight & caused me to gain more weight. So no, bariatric surgery is not a scam. And just because a medication, treatment, or procedure doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it's a scam or isn't beneficial to someone else.
Maybe I misinterpreted what the guests reasoning is but rather than having no skincare routine but wear foundation and concealer, it would make more sense to have a simple skincare routine to remove scarring, uneven skin tone so u don't feel the need to wear face makeup. I don't wear makeup but I only feel confident enough to do this by looking after my skin with certain products. Our skin is exposed to alot more pollutants and chemicals than it was 200 and 20 years ago, so to not evolve with your environment can be harmful.
I also think working for the karjenners has given her an extreme view of what the beauty industry is and her view is warped. American beauty trends are a lot more extreme than European beauty and we in Europe are more comfortable with seeing older women who are visibly older
She also states that outside of the West, women don't engage in beauty standards as much but I would highly disagree. Colourism is rampant in Asia, Africa and LATAM with bleaching products used across all classes. I'd also argue Korean beauty standards are more toxic than West, as surgery from a young age advances your job opportunities across multiple industries
All in all, I enjoyed watching this discussion, but disagreed with most of what the guest said
YES
What do you mean by skincare routine that removes scarring?
@@EnaGoba I've been using vitamin c and tranexmic acid (probably spelt wrong) for the past couple of years. This has got rid of scars I've had and enabled me to have bright and clear skin and I do not wear face makeup as a result
to be fair, most of the things she was talking about made little sense. the no skincare but foundation is ok thing was just the ultimate contradiction.
I think the opinions she has are pretty radical and she’s basing all the skincare/makeup arguments on her own experience and trying to present it as it’s universally valid. My vibe is that she went from one extreme to another and extremes are unhealthy.
I appreciate the majority of what Jessica is saying about skincare, but to say that the skin will just take care of itself is false, and I think it's a bit disingenuous to make a blanket statement that people don't need skincare. Especially coming from someone who is still putting on make-up. I enjoyed the rest of this conversation, but that topic just felt... odd.
Agreed. She even states herself that the reason she started her skincare obsession was because she was getting bad acne. I understand that occasional breakouts are normal, but if it’s to the point of needing to go to the dermatologist and get on accutane then it’s pretty evident that her skin wasn’t taking care of itself. Yes piling on endless products or overusing topical steroids is bad and damages your barrier, but every dermatologist I’ve heard speak about a routine encourages keeping it very simple and have also warned about not prolonging steroid treatments. It sounds to me like she went too hard one way and now she’s swinging the pendulum to total opposite way. For the vast majority of us it’s going to be somewhere in the middle.
@@katie_a1075 Exactly! I'm not into her saying that all people need is jojoba oil and water. It's just not true. No amount of drinking water and splashing water on my face is going to make my skin feel great in Ohio winter. It needs lotion, and external things to help the barrier. Water and jojoba oil is not going to stop my skin from being oily.
@@thejammiestjamAgreed. Also, nowadays it seems like anyone can search the web for five minutes and call themselves an expert or that they have done "research" in a particular área of expertise.
Meh. I think the point is that skin care products are not necessarily skin care. And since she was in child beauty pageants, she probably never had a life WITHOUT products. So that might explain why her acne was bad as a teen.
Also, bad is relative. I would argue that unless there is pain or a risk of scarring medication is probably not necessary. Especially for teens. But it sounds like her parents thought her skin was bad if it wasn't... You know... Perfect ...
Agreed. And sorry to say this but I want to see how her view on this changes as she ages. If she had a radical change from earlier in her life to now, chances are it's going to continue changing based on her own body's transformations over time.
While I don’t agree with some of what was said, I do appreciate you guys bringing on people with different perspectives while still having a respectful conversation and letting each other get their points across. I do think it’s good for us to listen with an open mind, and to challenge the way we think and why we do things.
Dang it's so interesting that this struck such a nerve .... I had a very similar experience with skincare where I perceived of my skin as problematic (to be clear I have adult acne, but nothing very serious like cystic acne or anything like that) so I underwent extremely complicated skincare routines, only to have my skin truly calm down and "clear up" when I stripped back my skincare to just a gentle cleanser and moisturizer and SPF. But here's the thing - my skin never truly "cleared up", I just underwent a mindset shift where I simply didn't care that much about it anymore. I don't even know if my skin really cleared up or I'm just not obsessing over every flaw anymore. IMO, that mindset shift can be way more powerful than a "perfect" routine. I think that's more at the core of her argument here. It's certainly a challenging concept to digest but I think it's a worthwhile one to at least consider. I feel like the internet has this weird phenomenon of making people see someone living their life differently as a direct attack on the way they live their own life. I think she does acknowledge that her routine will not work for everyone but that it might be worth a try if you've exhausted everything else. Tis not an attack, ppl!!
I liked this interview to balance out some of the pro-beauty industry guests lately. A lot of the criticism in the comments seems to be that Jessica is speaking in absolutes, but that's not what I heard. I think she has a radical (as in "from the root") take on beauty, which is righteous. The beauty industry is anti-woman, and we all just need to accept that, regardless of our personal feelings. But people don't like to hear radical takes regarding things they participate in - it makes us feel defensive. That's too bad. I wish the viewers would be able to hear "over-wrought, expensive, trendy skin care routines are unnecessary, ineffective, and possibly harmful" without misconstruing that true-ass message into "I don't like that stuff, and I'm a big ol' meanie who doesn't want you to enjoy your totally awesome face creams"
She literally didn't say "All I use is jojoba oil, and YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY DO THE SAME". She didn't say that. Go back and watch the video. Don't put words in her mouth. She's not attacking you.
It's about the money. It's always about the money and how large corporations conspire to get your money from you. It was bad enough before social media, but now it's relentless.
It depends on what type of social media you consume, though. There are hundreds of amazing channels on RUclips itself about frugality, spirituality, wealth building and so on. There are also thousands of channels on beauty and gaming and books and whatnot. When I was younger I was highly influenced by popular booktubers to buy a bunch of stupid, overpriced young adult books. After a while i realised how silly they were and stopped watching the channels that engaged in such shallow marketing. Social media really allows you to find your tribe and choose the lifestyle that resonates with you. You'll find influencers who encourage you to live like a monk or a billionaire playboy. It depends on you who you choose to follow.
Medicine, most especially in the US but also ever more so in the rest of the developed world, is primarily about profit. To an extent this has always been true in the US but now it's becoming very very blatant. The primary aim of the system we have is not to treat illness but make money.
I feel like she isn't really qualified to talk about skincare and dermatology. It's one thing to dissect beauty standards, and it's another to tell people to stop using skincare altogether. I don't think this is really her area of expertise. Plus, continuing to wear makeup but taking such an extreme stance on skincare seems really hypocritical to me.
But i think it‘s good if we all test the „no skincare procedure“ and see what happens with that…if it doesn‘t work you can always get back to products and medication…it‘s extremely important to educate people/women on this, too many never consider this…
Also comparing body breaking down Botox to detox .. it is not the same. She is not a doctor or chemist and it shows
I feel like Jessica falls into a trap here that so many intelligent folks fall into, which is speaking with a certain degree of absolutism which ends up inadvertently highlighting where their blind spots are. I admire her conviction but wow, there are some very broad statements being made here from a pretty myopic perspective! I don’t think any of us are immune to forgetting how truly insulated within our personal niche sphere we are; she mentions from the jump that she has spent the lions share of her life immersed in a very commercial, heteronormative beauty world, and that the place she critiques from is that of a disillusioned insider. While this means she has a lot of insight into the ills of the industry, I don’t know if she realizes how hyper-aware she seems of some of this stuff in a way that doesn’t necessarily map all that well onto the relationship with beauty culture the average person (who probably does not have the trained eye to be able to identify whether someone has had subtle work done, for instance) might have, to say nothing of how little it may intersect with that of someone who falls somewhere outside of mainstream, marketable demographics. The relationship someone who is gender non-conforming or queer has with the beauty world is likely going to be considerably different than hers, for instance. She’s absolutely right that, at the end of the day, we are all trying not to get got in the capitalist hellscape, but I don’t know. I think there’s lots of good stuff here jumbled in with plenty of stuff that comes off as an attempt to project her experiences as more universal than they are, which at times comes off as a touch sanctimonious. I’ve got mixed feelings about this one.
I so agree. Like, I question the assumption that we should be working towards not just minimized consumption, but minimized engagement with our appearance, or investment in aesthetics and self-presentation. She spoke about feeling the need to put on a full face of makeup to go to CVS, and that was framed as a dysfunctional state…….I’m sure it was for her. But I don’t think nearly enough time was spent stopping to deconstruct and sift through nuances.
I agree that her opinions certainly stemmed from her limited perspective in Ameria and her proximity to the beauty industry, and throughout I was wondering if she would make any mention of those whose experiences of/relationship to beauty standards (even that sentance itself tells on itself) ( ex: means of survival, gain validity in their gender). And while she does seem to paint the West all in the same stroke, I think she did kind of cover that base albeit not overtly, when she said we should be attempting to divest "as much as is safe and available to us".
I think that as for those who see her statements about the Wests beauty standards exceeding the global standard as too broad a stroak, and I am making assumptions from my limited demographic, perspective and experiences as well, I think she may be referring moreso to women and femmes across the globe who are poor, which is ~less~ prevalent in western countries bc of their history as exploiters in the global economy. And women living in poverty must focus on survival of themselves and their family MAY or often have less resources of time or money to spend on beauty. I believe she is trying to draw attention to the fact that in many cases those in the West in relative poverty may rightfully say they need to invest in makeup and the beauty industry in order to survive (beauty seen as morality, get and maintain a job etc. bc of patriarchy) which certainly IS TRUE, which is why it is a difficult conversation to have. But I think by making that point she wants us to question what opting into these systems does for women as a whole, because (and this is my insertion here) men and patriarchy arent going to do it for us. Some of us, are MORE SAFE AND HAVE MORE AVAILABILITY to divest, and those who do (and none of us have complete availabilty and safety because patriarchy is pervasive) should make a concious effort, because as she said our actions have reverberations in our social circles and the wider picture.
I think she is ultimately doing a good job of getting us to be a bit more real with ourselves. I think she certainly should have touched on that small glance we got into the limits of divestment we are allotted based on our gender identities, weight, race, class etc... BUT that SOME OF US may have alot more available to us than we want to believe relative to other women and that again ... this system is extractive of time, resources and pits women against each other (as the as she puts it 'commercialized/industralized beauty industry exists currently) .... so it is up to those who have it relatively AVAILABLE and safely to.
A good example is if everyone who has extra money begins using it for Botox and this is normalized in these circles, it will become easier and easier to tell who is poor. Poverty and aging are two things that are shamed and therefore it makes class mobility even harder for poor women. Middle class women saying they need it 'because of the patriarchy' is TRUE but also COWARDLY in a way ... and we have been making excuses in the name of 'self care' and 'survival in this hellscape' when our survival isn't nearly as dire and builds barriers for other women AND ourselves along the way..
All of this is to say the systems of opporession have to be dismantled and I think, again this may be more of a note to self, but my relative place in the patriarchal hellscape is pretty decent, and further entrenching my white thin-ish societally acceptable ass self to the racist and patriarchal ideals of thinness and beauty in the west isn't helpful to those who can't divest.
A woman who is active in the fight against oppressive forces who I follow on instagram @proletarianfeminist always inspires me, when she argues that fighting against oppression isn't going to feel safe and good at all times and those who have historically created materially change always accept a certain amout of INDIVIDUAL risk you have to put forward (of course balanced /coupled with real self care, protection and community) to make change for COMMUNITIES. But again, COMMUNITY, we are all a part of a whole and together slight divestments from the commercialized beauty industry as we (I, western woman sold targetted ads that even when disguised as inclusive like fat models is still to remove hair which .. as you guessed it racist history) so that we can rebuild real self expression and beauty and beauty in strength and togetherness and REJECTION of harmful systems.
Nor sure she's any more intelligent than average. She's certainly not more educated on the topics she speaks about than average, which is concerning when she's trying to give advice. I love Chelsea's choice of interviewee usually but this is only the second ever I couldn't finish (the first being The Minimalists).
Yeah, my overall take away was just how glaringly experientially immature this guest is.
i think Jessica is using a lot of straw man arguments in her critique, and her take on the beauty industry comes across as a bit simple and somewhat contradictory. there's a big lack of nuance. just because she overstressed her skin with all kinds of crazy treatments in the past, does not mean that only using jojoba oil, manuka honey and spf is the best thing for her (or others) now. she doesn't use skincare, but foundation/concealer is okay for her as long as it's "no-makeup makeup". how does that mesh with her belief that putting more stuff on your skin is bad for it?
you can criticize the beauty industry and beauty standards without thinking you know more than literal doctors who specialize in skin. there will always be people seeking to maximize profits by selling you shit that you don't need (as in any industry), but that doesn't mean that dermatology is a scam.
When she talked about make up, she didn't say it was "ok" per se, just that she struggles with going without because of the nature of her job. Whereas with the skincare, she can moreso do it the way she wants to or thinks is best.
Which were the strawmen arguments you found? (this is not meant to be combative, I am interested)
You hit the nail on the head. It honestly reminds me of people who say that their psych meds ruined their lives, and now they just meditate and drink green juice and they feel soooooo much better. Like….good for you girl, you figured out something that works FOR YOU. Honestly what she’s doing reminds me of beauty journalists who rave about their 10 step routines. Either way, it’s such a personal choice built on an incredibly personal situation - how your unique skin reacts to various things. People with good skin (ie, skin that just needs SPF and water) are so out of touch with those of us who have actual skin issues 🙄
Well said. She seems to think "because one extreme is bad, the complete opposite extreme is the only solution."
I think it is important to notice that this is her experience, and a unique one at that. Using topical steroids isnt normal in the EU for example. Her having experience and "looking into" how skin works isn't the same as having a PhD. Some people have conditions where using no skincare/cosmetics isnt going to help, even though the skin is "designed" to work a certain way. I think she has a good message about critiquing the beauty industry as a whole, but the message gets heavily skewed when she basically aligns herself with this 'clean beauty' ethos.. 🤷🏻♀️
I think we forget when we see celebrities shame aging signs or try to ward it off. Smile lines, crows feet, not using a straw and trying to keep your facial features neutral to avoid wrinkles. Like goddamn it's a privilege to even age at all some people aren't on this earth long enough to have those wrinkles you hate so bad
Famous people don't age anymore. This society is becoming more and more divorced from reality.
For me, moving to Denmark has been such a revelation in terms of discovering how much I have been relying on makeup to construct a type of external persona I wanted to project to the world. I have been using less and less make-up and making my beauty routines simpler just because I am surrounded by a culture that is not as obsessed with beautification as I was used to. The Danes are so wonderfully practical and I am happy about what that culture switch has awarded me. I just spend less brainpower on appearance.
I’d love to see a TFC with one of the older influencers you’ve mentioned following
Yes!!! Chelsea says she doesn't follow anyone under the age of 50, so let's see that evidence!
I had severe and painful acne for 16 years. Plenty of that time was spent trying to let my skin sort itself out. It didn’t. I am incredibly thankful for the results I’ve achieved with medication from my dermatologist, I am in less pain and I am happier with the way my skin feels. I will always have deep scarring from the 16 years of letting it work itself out though and I wish I had done more sooner. I don’t think acne is inherently bad, I don’t think it is indicative of the level of care you have for yourself, and I can still appreciate that it doesn’t hurt to touch my face. I don’t have my students grabbing at my acne anymore. If you haven’t dealt with significant skill issues it probably is really easy to just let it work itself out, but sometimes it just doesn’t.
Totally agree! It always bothers me when people are boastful about not using any products and treatments on their skin. It's an (often) unintended jab at those of us that have dealt with real skin issues that really benefit from medical intervention.
Genetics mainly dictate whether one can be carefree without medical intervention. I have rosacea and acne-prone skin that will likely never sort itself out. The sooner these issues get treated the better the outcomes.
I tried lots of natural acne remedies without success when I was a teen. What worked was the Vicky anti-imperfection routine and my hormones sorting themselves out. I have a fairly good skin now, combination with the occasional pimple, but I have friends who still struggle with acne at 40. I would never dream of telling them what to do with their medical condition when I have a clear skin with no lines most of the time. I can put on olive oil and vaseline most times without problem, it's not the case for many people.
@@jubi0622 Yes! Bragging about not needing skincare is like bragging about not needing student loans. Both things just mean you lucked into something (good skin/wealth) that not everyone has a chance at.
At the end of the day, it is extremely healthy to question our choices and work to ensure that they are indeed our own and not simply a reaction to oppression or our own self rejection. As long as that is part of your routine, do what makes you feel well served so you can show up in the best way possible.
I’m so glad you had Jessica on! I’ve been following her newsletter The Unpublishable for months. I am not totally anti-product (I use cleanser, moisturizer, tretinoin) but reading her content has totally sharpened my critical eye towards the beauty industry . Even if you can’t get behind her “no product” stance, I think her content is amazing if you keep an open mind. I highly recommend the newsletter.
Enhancement can be empowering but let's be real, the beauty industry is downright predatory. Influencers who push trends like buccal fat removal, butt implants, etc..need to take a look at how they profit from pushing these trends on their audiences. Consumers need to take a step back and proceed with caution.
This topic got me thinking about how I was as a teen and young adult. I tried so hard to be like "other girls" by getting into make up and beauty products. However, the older I got the more I realized that the issues that I had with my skin and eyes were due to what I was putting on it. The less product I used the better my skin looked. It made me realize the need for makeup was not needed. Also, as I focus on my health (i.e. exercise and eating better) my skin is looking better.
Her take on dermatology is a bad one. Seeing a derm and getting recommended clinically proven products changed my skin so much. Yes, I spend way more on products but i'd rather spend money on stuff that works than have skin that looked inflamed, felt tight and looked oily. And 'not using any products' like she suggests isn't an option.
Exactly. I have eczema and the only way to keep it in check is by using anti inflammatory creams prescribed by my dermatologist as well as heavy moisturizers
like it or not, jessica made SO many solid points. beauty is an intangible commodity; it’s all about power. we are often marketed products that feed into our insecurities and/or reinforce power structures.
jessica wasn’t telling us all to toss our products out immediately, she was suggesting a perspective shift: consider a world where you aren’t consuming and plucking and shaving and tweezing and lasering and scrubbing and filling and glossing and powdering and imagine you’re able to just be… no product to by, no one else’s gaze to worry about.
I really appreciated the points brought up in this interview as well. A lot of comments here seem to be taking aim at Jessica for not following what she "preaches" to a tee, but I didn't get the sense that she was trying to preach anything. To me it felt more like encouraging different ways of thinking about the current beauty and skincare narrative for ourselves. It doesn't seem like she has it "all figured out" nor like she is trying to pretend that she does, but that she's just trying to reflect on these things for herself and challenge more people to do the same for themselves. Reading through the comments I wondered if I had totally missed the mark, but it looks like you had a similar take away as well. It's really interesting how we can all watch the same interview and have such different interpretations of it. Looks like most are in agreement that this is a great topic for discussion though!
Agree. I think the interviewer was a little bit unprofessional and not leveling with her in a fair way; looking at the camera in a pointed way when the guest said a couple of things, responding with questions that seem intended to "catch" her when she could have just said, "I see what you mean, but I disagree because..." The guest was not 100% without some small flaws in her claims, and I think she did go too far into medical information that is really territory for a doctor, but it is clear that she is not trying to manipulate anyone or intentionally make self-serving arguments as far as I could see here.
No, it is NOT the norm to be offered Botox or unsolicited aesthetic services at the dermatologist office!! I'm sick of "journalists" like herself preaching about her own "research" and dermatology like she has had years of training in this area. Stick to talking about about societal beauty standards and the associated effects rather than talking about dermatology. A lot of info off of articles on PubMed can be misinterpreted and taken out of context.
There are so many skin conditions that require dermatological intervention. Acne scarring for example leaves physical and psychological scars. A good dermatologist can be a lifesaver for this and many other skin issues. This person isn't a doctor so I'm gonna take her skincare opinions with a grain of salt.
I'm a person with severe acne scars who is considering dermatological intervention.
However, I do not believe that I "require" dermatoligical intervention, I want it. Scars are not medically dangerous, they just make us feel ugly. Medically treating scars is cosmetics surgery that is done to adhere to beauty standards.
Again, I'll likely get this done, but I think it's disingenuous to call it anything other than cosmetic surgery.
@@MichiruEll I'm happy that you feel it's a choice. For many acne scars carry psychological scars as well as physical ones. For those that do, it's a life saver. I hope your treatment goes wel.
I love when Chelsea looks into the camera like she's in The Office
She is a bit contradictory in her reasoning especially referencing ancient indigenous cultures. I’m sure there was a form of skincare and beauty regimen along with pigments (ochre) that was used for enhancing both beauty and status depending upon the Indigenous group. Not to forget body alternating such as the Kayan people practicing neck banding. So people throughout history have altered their skin both temporary and permanent for different reasons, including a cultural beauty standards.
So I grew up as a competitive swimmer and as a result of my experience never learned how to do my hair, makeup, nails etc. because I didn’t see the point of ruining it in the pool every day.
At this point (nearing 30) I still don’t care to learn. I look alright, the idea of adding all this time to my daily life makes my adhd brain go “nope”, and I (very thankfully) feel valued in my community regardless of my looks.
My cousin was a competitive swimmer through college, and had classic dead pool hair- she was once stopped by another woman in the grocery store who wanted to know where she'd gotten her "frosted tips" done "because her hair looked so good." lol
The cost of what is expected beauty maintenance has skyrocketed. I see a lot of women spending money they don't have on their hair/skin/nails, etc. It is a real financial drain.
Bravo for Jessica and her critiques and crusades. I think it gives Jessica credibility that she's being critical as someone who has been in the industry and doesn't completely hate it.This is coming at a time when. I am fed. up with rich celebs doing side hustles of pushing make up. and skin care products.
I agree, it really is time to put some effort into self-awareness about who we are as human beings rather than year in year out following yet another mindless trend on how to shape your eyebrows or plump your lips and what style of jeans is in. It's so trivial for it to be such a huge factor in society.
Best comment so far!! I 100% agree with you!
in an ideal world the human skin renews itself, but the reality is that human activities contribute to additional dust particles in the air. That's why a cleanser is needed and sunscreen is essential even when you're indoors.
It’s my first time hearing about a minimalist beauty and skin scare approach and I found it very refreshing. Thank you!
I feel much the same as a lot of people on this. I think the thing that made me uncomfortable wasn't the ideology, but the presentation as - 'I did my research and [insert opinion]'. I can fully understand if she had that trauma of a bad doctor essentially melting her face off that that trauma would colour her entire opinion. But, one bad doctor doesn't make every doctor in that industry bad.
I think the point I have just stopped this video and am like. I'm unsure if I can continue. Is the sprouting just easily checkable and incorrect information - skin life cycle. Skin lifecycle is 28 days... in teenagers, but actually increases as you age. That's what Vitamin A such as a retinol does, it chemically increases that turn around time so it mimics younger cells. But as you age it goes from that 28 to over 80 days when you're over 50. And that information isn't something that's hard to research, you can google it and get scientifically backed sources that agree on this point. It just sort of gives the feeling that everything else she's 'researched' has been very surface level.
Like if its all worked for her and she's happy with her life journey. Power on to her, and she should feel happy and confident to share that journey. But reframe the conversation from these are facts, to, these are my opinions.
Skincare IS so much more important than makeup! Your skin is the largest organ and you need to properly take care of it!!
Yeah her saying she doesn't do skincare really irritated me. Like sorry lady but you're wearing makeup, take care of your skin instead
@@Cynni393 EXACTLY 🙏🏽
I find skincare so much irritating than makeup. And this is not uncommon. Lots of skincare only serves to compromise skin barrier. I think this is what she was getting at.
@@lilidonnaskincare always causes me breakout than makeup do
I'm glad that whatever she's doing is working for her, but I think that the attitude that that's a one size fits all solution is a problem. I also grew up with severe dermatitis, specifically eczema. Since the time I was two, caring for my skin has been a struggle because if you know anything about eczema, you know it is a permanent impairment of the skin's moisture barrier. I've had rashes over 90% of my body at times. I have tried jojoba oil -- which is expensive, btw, as far as oils go -- and it did not work for me. For me it was about finding the right products. I found a Vaseline lotion that works so well I only need to apply once a da instead of having to reapply multiple times. My face -- which was the most consistent and demoralizing problem areas -- finally cleared up after I started investing in more quality skincare. I'm glad that what worked for her worked for her, but not everything can be solved by "just letting your skin do its thing".
Excuse me? She only moisturizes with jojoba oil? The skin cleanses, moisturizes and protects itself? Any dermatologist (cosmetic or otherwise) will tell you we need three products: a cleanser, a moisturizer, and a sunscreen that we'll use every single day. Not everyone in the beauty industry is "out to get us".
Yeah, I didn't understand how she wears foundation but doesn't clean her face. So, how does she sufficiently remove her makeup? And sunscreen is a non-negotiable. Even cultures who live without western products use things like thick mud as a sunscreen. And most people would have cracked painful skin and skin that over-produces sebum to compensate leading to acne if they didn't use moisturizer. Absolutely bizarre.
Weirdly the skin specialist I went to recommended not using moisturiser as much as possible as a general rule, so I’m honestly left so confused!
I don't think she always wears foundation, and more recent studies have shown that cleansing our faces less frequently might be beneficial to the skin, unless the skin is exposed to a lot of dirt or you are a regular make-up wearer.
I rarely wear make-up and so do not need to wash my face on a daily basis, and at times only moisturise with oil, most commonly a rosehip oil. I've never had happier, more balanced skin and people frequently compliment me on it.
@@deerfoxcat that's true, to some extent. Many derms I follow say that a morning cleanse may not be necessary, especially if you have dry skin. But an evening cleanse is, since we have accumulated pollution, grime, etc from the day that needs removing.
@@FranMinney do you have oily skin? Maybe a sunscreen is enough moisture for you in the morning.
sweet bb jesus ive been telling ppl about how skincare truly is a capitalist scam, for years, and oftentimes im being laughed at! great great great interview, loved this guest so much
Yes! Totally, I tried some of facial wash and sunscreens different brands and either of them makes me breakout, eczema, and fungal acne. They are making us sicker, after only using water as skincare my skin feels better just in 2 weeks! Literally many people didn't use skincare and they are okay, also the real skincare is veggies, fruits, and hitting the gym
@@ohlomi114 yesss you're absolutely right! btw fungal acne is so real its like the skin cannot handle all of this bullshit lol but also hormones can be real mean (acne once a month), but still i find any skincare products have never really done any difference with that, ever
@@4eolian yep. I still got a little pimple but my skin feels better a lot. Not wasting money anymore on that shit, it doesn't fix anything
Interesting discussion but a lot of what she says is just plain wrong. For example, doctors do not equate being skinny with being healthy.
They look at a range of evidence and indicators when assessing a patient.
If doctors tell you to lose weight, it's because they believe your weight is contributing to your health issue and reducing it will help alleviate your symptoms. It's not about trying to get you to be skinny so you fit into the beauty standard. However you spin it, being overweight can have negative consequences on your health. Your weight is a significant risk factor for a variety of illnesses, and getting it to a healthy level does reduce your risks.
I'm gonna guess that you have never been overweight? I had a doctor tell me to lose weight when I was a teenager (I was 5'7" and 180 pounds) after I sprained my ankle. Weight had NOTHING to do with my injury (I twisted my ankle on stepping stones in my yard) and this was a walk-in clinic where the doctor didn't know anything about me. He looked at me and just ASSUMED that I was unhealthy.
@@justanotherjessica I've been overweight or obese for the majority of my life. I understand there are quack/lazy doctors that attribute everything to weight, which is demeaning and wrong. However, this doesn't change the fact that body weight remains a large factor (no pun intended), in creating and worsening a variety of health issues.
Personally I find aesthetic self expression to be just a fulfilling as any other form of self expression. But I do agree can decouple it from consumption.
I found it ironic that the other things she listed that could be forms of self expression all involved purchases of some kind.
This was such a good episode. Love the idea of doing nothing to your skin for a while. I've noticed that seeing a dermatologist and stepping back on the number of products I use has helped a lot. Also shout out to Chelsea for speaking so much about skincare and going to the dermatologist because it really has been a game changer.
I’ve found a happy compromise where I can have a Skincare Routine but it’s sustainable as well.
It’s an interesting conversation and I would’ve liked to hear it extend to the ways meeting a beauty standard affects your employment prospects, relationships, etc. There are tangible benefits to being seen as beautiful.
Re dermatologists hawking beauty treatments, I was sickened last week to receive an email from Mt. Sinai hospital (preeminent hospital in NYC) announcing that the (Yale-educated) dermatologist my 92-year-old mother has seen for the last 8 years for annual skin scans and assorted biopsies, has been re-branded a "cosmetic care dermatologist," and will now be offering COOL-SCULPTING!
"Take the first step toward achieving your body-contouring goals. Cool sculpting is a Food and Drug Administration-approved, non-surgical fat reduction treatment. Controlled cooling is used to reduce stubborn fat pockets that are resistant to diet and exercise. There is no recovery time and you can go back to work immediately. In our practice, treatments are directly supervised by a licensed dermatologist, which is an advantage over treatments performed in a spa."
Obviously this is more profitable to Mt. Sinai than serving elderly patients on Medicare (who often must waits months for an appointment). But frankly, I'm embarrassed for Mt. Sinai and especially for this particular dermatologist. A really bad look (no pun intended).
After I heard what happened to Linda Evangelista I can’t believe cool sculpting is still legal. It’s totally unethical. It’s permanently disfiguring people, and they don’t even know why! And I still see ads for it on RUclips constantly!
Cool Sculpting also is what deformed the super model Linda Evangelista face and body. Shame on that Dr for switching to do that.
Fascinating discussion. I didn't agree with everything Jessica said but I found her very interesting and passionate. Not sure that I agree with the idea that my skin can take care of itself. I have sensitive skin and use a minimum of products but In the winter it just gets really dry because I walk outside a lot and it doesn't fix itself. I need a good serum or moisturizer.
Love this discussion from TFD family and the guest. I really liked hearing from this guest. Taking about different approaches to “living in a society.”
There’s no one size fits all perspective, but I feel like her POV was nice to hear.
Chelsea was doing funny Jim-from-the-office looks to camera during this one, the best one was right after Jessica says she doesn't have a skincare routine. Great interview! (and also don't stop Jimming, it was great to get that unfiltered reaction)
I've also gone through steroid cream withdrawal and it was a whole time. Since then, my skincare "routine" has consisted of a colloidal oatmeal moisturiser and an oil cleanser for makeup days. Almost all skincare products for me are just potential irritators. The Unpublishable is also really great! Great interview.
On the topic of journalistic objectivity, I’d recommend reading Lorraine Daston’s Objectivity, which goes into the history of objectivity and how or if we can remove ourselves from our observations. It’s a fantastic read. It blew my friggin mind.
The Space Sector and the female STEM and Space Influencers have been left untouched by the corruption of beauty as power to point to in my opinion. This is exactly why this industry is not as mainstream.
These comments, smh. Everyone who says well she doesn't know more than doctors: guys she went to doctors, she had serious skin problems from childhood, and everything aggravated her condition. When she talks about skincare being permanent, shes talking about surgeries (obvi). When she says not using skincare, she means the overconsumption of products, she still uses something simple to clean, to hydrate and protect from the sun, and she never says people should top going to a dermatologist, just that like a lot of the medical industry, a large part has been tainted by corporate greed. Jesus.
Old woman here- 63 yo. Regarding the genetic advantage, my 97 yo mother is in hospice now, but her skin is still beautiful. Very few wrinkles (significantly less than me) despite never 'caring' for her skin except moisturizer.I grew up in a community where beauty culture was something other people did, seen as somewhat frivolous but harmless. It did not prepare me for the larger society's beauty focus. Perhaps as a result, I have always cared more about what I and other people wear than about makeup, hair styles and all the rest.
I got a bit suspicious when Jessica said that she wouldn't go to the shops without a full face of makeup. Can we have guests who are starting from the middle ground and not go from one extreme to the other? It is clear that she is absolutist and her "solutions" are all of nothing. I will carry on with my routine (which is minimal and inexpensive) because I know that UV light is harmful and I need a sunscreen that is tested. I do have a pack of cosmetic grade zinc oxide in my house, but making my own sunscreen will never be as homogeneous and reliable as buying it in the drugstore. That is considering that I do have a very good understanding of chemistry (but I'm not a cosmetic chemist) and I'm more qualified than most in making my own cosmetics, but I do not have the resources and equipment for making stuff that is consistent and aseptic.
I haver never had eczema in my life. But i spent 2 years trying every trendy chemical exfoliant on the market. I used chemical exfoliants 3-4 days a week. Today my skin is litterally destroyed. Eczema flairups are uncontrollable. I know we can't really link eczema to one thing. But i do believe following skincare trends had a huge impact, e.g., wanting glass skin and hence using acids to smooth bumps. Please leave your skin alone.
Based on my experince, I tried some of facial wash and sunscreens different brands and either of them makes me breakout, eczema, and fungal acne. I finally decide to only using water as skincare my skin feels better just in 2 weeks! The real skincare is veggies, fruits, and hitting the gym
@thefinancialdiet this makes me think so much about the intersection between the beauty industry and food! And how much the food industry not only props up the pharmaceutical companies, but also the beauty industry by making so many people have skin problems
As a person that buys no beauty products I had to tell myself that "this a hobby for them" otherwise I'd get judgemental when I should not. Not everyone has the same hobby. I don't understand or feel any interest at all but who am I to criticize people doing their hobbies? Beauty products are just the cost of their hobbies like surfers buy surfboards. Does the surfer industry exploit surfers?
I see where you're coming from, but this comparison isn't very accurate. A ton of people use makeup not because they love it, but cuz they feel like the have to... even if they prefer not to have the added expense/time waste in their lives.
I think makeup can be a hobby for ppl but a lot of women wear makeup because if they didn't they would be treated differently. Some work places require you to look a certain way. Also some ppl have acne and need products with medicinal ingredients I don't think it's a hobby for them.
I somewhat disagree (love this interview though and the interviewee). When she says that makeup was used as a community tool to show one’s place in community … it sounded like a cute way to say it shows your societal place in the hierarchy of who’s who. Just my opinion. But loved this interview and respect her insightful view of beauty.
The same feeling here
Communal structures are not often hierarchical, also not all hierarchies are vertical.
I think it is fair to have a follow up with women that have lived longer. However, I appreciate these conversations because we are in a space where women can analyze the influence of popular culture and make more informed decisions.
I also had to learn to live the jojoba oil way because I just have to honor the fact that I am sensitive and require simplicity and gentleness. Now I am facing aging, seeing my face change and my hair grey, and I'm okay. I'm just going to do my best by this body while I can and just watch it change with grace. This coming from a woman that was way over identified with beauty. Now it's a relief to dress for myself and I find great joy in styling my thrift finds.
There is a balance between using products to help your skin stay clear, since it is natural that your skin will develop blemishes and pimples due to hormones and outside influences, and letting your skin naturally heal itself. In my opinion, the perfectly clear and smooth hydrated skin that is seen by everyone as healthy and natural is actually not the way your face is supposed to look day to day. That look is something you have to work for and it’s unfair to yourself and your skin to expect it to just get to that point by itself without product intervention.
I went to a new dentist recently and on the intake forms were questions about how I felt about my teeth whiteness and would I like teeth whitening. I went for an annual checkup and X rays
So you are telling me this woman uses foundation, but not face wash, moisturizer, or sunscreen? The math ain't mathing...
Haha you're right. She puts on foundation and concealer but doesn't wash it off?! No wonder she needs concealer. She might use less if she cleanses and moisturizes.
She said she removes the makeup with jojoba oil and wears sunscreen when she's going to be in the sun
I am confused as to what a "no skincare routine" is as she said she had no skincare routine but then went on to talk about what her skincare routine was.
The conversation was in general very interesting. Thank you!
one of my favourite episodes
I feel like the body modification community is really good at using temporary and permanent modifications to exert bodily autonomy and signal culture inclusion…and defy conventional beauty standards.
This guest made a lot of sweeping generalizations in eloquently stated logical fallacies to assert her position. And that's the danger, she starts with a kernel of truth and then goes left.
As someone who never wears makeup but loves skincare and finally feels comfortable (physically and visually) in her own skin, this is such a bizarre conversation 😅
The sound on TFD videos lately has been low even when I pump up the volume.
Ppl are so deep in the rabbit hole that they are triggered by the mere thought of her suggesting derms may be corrupt and the skin is self healing with some oils.
Wow I'm not sure I've had such a "YESSSS!!! "and "um, not at all ...that's just being human" emotional reaction to an interview before. I subscribed to my first substack so I'm riveted to learn more from her! I also love Lorrie Hill and somehow missed Chelsea interviewed her so I'll go find that next.
Oooof this is the hardest I’ve seen Chelsea be on a guest. It was interesting.
Madonna choosing to alter her appearance in opposition of beauty standards is misguided. As a fan of hers for decades she has most certainly been trying to just fight age. To preserve the youth she feels inside. To maintain her appearance because her work demands it.
I think she likely started trying to did something here and there and it got out of hand as celebrities are prone to. I think her stylists are awful and add horrible hair, makeup, and clothing choices that make her look worse. She’s clearly swollen and recovering from a procedure. You should check her Twitter out because the swelling has gone down and she looks somewhat human again.
I don’t think Madonnas skin care line is even available anymore.
The public has been brutal to Madonna since the beginning but particularly around 88-early 90s.
Michael Jackson’s face was wrecked when he was about 40. And I think they talk way more crap about her now. She won’t be appreciated again until she’s gone.
Happy 1 million subbies!!! Congratulations, Chelsea. ❤️
This was a great counter conversation from the previous guest who embraced procedures
So glad I don’t wear makeup. I don’t shave. And I’m a tomboy woman, I don’t pay this shit no mind, it can be hard but it’s worth it to not get caught up in this shit
The conflation of beauty routine and hygiene routine rub me the wrong way. A lot of beauty products are unnecessary, sure but the skin does not clean itself. Sebum production and sweat do not rid the skin of bacteria and can often harbor bacteria if there is an excessive amount. Hair care is similar, many haircare products are unnecessary but washing your body and hair are necessary to prevent various conditions and keep your body healthy. I do not care about beauty to be honest so I'm already "divested" if you want to call it that, but many of the things she said were just wrong and it's weird to see a writer take her own experience and apply that logic to everyone. Yeah...early humans didn't use skincare or many of the products we have today and they probably had skin issues and less than pleasant odor. Why would we want the same??
Also your body does a lot of things but keeping itself "beautiful" is not a priority. The body tries to keep itself healthy but healthy does not always mean beautiful by today's standards (even though people conflate the two which is a whole different topic)
At 18:12 the guest says that the only way we perceive ourselves in relation to the outside world is through our skin, but we perceive via sight, smell and hearing too. Touch and taste I’ll give to skin 😉
Something I realized from a very young age is how much work self described "low-maintenance" women put into their appearance. They would say "I only spend 20 minutes getting ready in the morning, but then outline a beauty routine that included a facial scrub, moisturizer, light foundation, eye liner, styling mouse, and a curling iron. As someone with executive dysfunction I can spend 5 minutes just looking for my hairbrush.
Same! I’m truly low maintenance bc im chronically ill. I barely so my skincare routine and overall my skin is fine?! I definitely notice a difference if I do take better care of it but I’m lucky to have unproblematic skin. But overall most ppl who are low maintenance still largely opt in. I’ve had to opt p hardcore bc taking a shower can be exhausting most days
The new trend is the concept of “high maintenance to be low maintenance”, in which many people go out and invest serious money and time on certain specific beauty regimens, so that daily, they don’t have to “do much”. This can include gel manicures, tanning sessions, hair straightening, teeth whitening, eyelash extensions, tattoo makeup, Invisaligners, and a whole host of other things. So while they might be preaching to IG that they only spend 10 minutes in the morning getting ready, the truth of it is that they’re dropping bank on this stuff, and they have several maintenance appointments per month. It’s a well crafted lie.
Good skin is a beauty standard. ~ Dr Dray
Madonna is not a pushing against existing beauty standards, she’s combating ageism, which she’s explicitly said numerous times. There’s overlap yes, however I think her statements on aging are a bit more poignant than people are acknowledging. She’s talking not even just about women, but people aging and still being authentic to who they are. The pretensions of being “mature”. Assuming roles and behavior society deems acceptable for your age. People telling her she shouldn’t do xyz because she’s a certain age, and the pushback is even louder because she’s a woman. The way Madonna is, is who she is, but because she’s older and engages in behavior people say a woman her age shouldn’t, her actual presence is being policed. This about what constitutes acceptable behavior for elders and the line between being who you are, still enjoying the same things (if you can still do them), and not being attacked because of it. I know women in their 50’s now who won’t allow themselves to enjoy things they used to simply because they would be criticized for their age. Madonna is punk and will always be punk. She’s not playing the old maid and bowing out silently because she’s 64 and people can’t stand it lol
Thank you, finally someone who actually understands. So many of the examples in this interview seemed to mis-represent people's actual positions.
how is getting a BBL "combating ageism"? how is filling your face to the brink of popping, so as to smooth out every semblance of a line combating agism? more like "combating aging", but in a "punk" way as you say.
Madonna isn't fighting ageism, she is fully complying with it
She can say and do poignant things, but the fact stands that she has a skincare brand lol. She is a wheel in the beauty industry machine, which is not very punk if you ask me
@@axreason Cosmetics VS behavior. Reread my statement slowly, my point is outlined clearly. You all are misrepresenting her stance to fit your own agenda. Madonna has consistently been attacked for her behavior, and everyone is attacking her because she gets the same youth preservation surgeries that all the other girls get. Make it make sense?
I have been waiting for this for so long!!! Yes!!!
I love almost all TFD interviews but this one really struck a chord and made me think about why I'm doing what I'm doing in terms of beauty. Very insightful and thought provoking. Thanks Chelsea and Jessica.
If skin was able to take of itself, then the field of dermatology wouldn't exist. Would we say that about any other medical category? High spf sunscreen, moisturizer and retinol (if you want to *slow* down aging) are almost necessary and we are very priviledged to have access to all this Information and take care of our skin optimaly. Yes, it's an industry and a very insidious one at that, especially because skincare is the it thing nowadays more than ever, but there are many affordable, non-luxury options that work great. It's not a zero sum game.
this comments section reinforces the need for someone like jessica and her work very well lmao
The bit about the parallels between diet culture and skin care culture was just *chef's kiss*
Loved this episode. All the guests for the show are so genuine and informative.
I used jojoba oil on my baby after bath, with the knowledge of its closeness to sebum so the best option for babies, right? Wrong. My baby's skin became DRY their 1st month. I stopped and used a baby moisturizer with simple non harmful ingredients. Their skin recovered in 3 days and started striving after a week and ever since. Sometimes what is generally good is not good for your particular situation.
That's because oil is an occlusive but not a humectant. So it retains moisture that is already there but doesn't add any moisture to the skin. A lot of people who use oil to "moisturize" have really dry skin under the oil.
You can’t “reject beauty standards by making yourself look young and pretty. If you reject them, you should look like someone who doesn’t care what beauty standards are and what they themselves look like. Madonna isn’t rejecting beauty standards, Marilyn Manson is.
Comments were more entertaining than the video lol. I do think Washing face is necessary especially if you wear makeup and using a spf and mousturizer. I am curious if humans are the only animals that struggle with acne.
I used to be the kind of person who never left the house without make-up and that's not an exaggeration, but now I hardly ever wear it. I probably wear make-up around once a year, sometimes not even that, and It's truly one of the best things I've done for myself. Now I can just wake up, pull on some clothes, put on suncream and leave the house, whereas before I lost at least an hour every morning putting it on, more thinking about whether it was ok throughout the day and retouching it, and then even more time washing it off at night, not to mention the money I spent. It's truly been liberating. Furthermore, because I'm not continuously applying and washing off make-up, or using products to counteract the effects of it on my skin, my skin itself is so much better. And most significantly, when I wake up, the face I see in the mirror doesn't strike me as abnormal and I feel comfortable with my own face, whereas before that wasn't the case and I would be horrified by the sight it without make-up.
The only times I've found it challenging is when other people have made comments about it, when I feel like I SHOULD be wearing it but am not, or when I'm on a night out and feel much plainer than others because make-up is now worn in a more exaggerated manner than in the past, such as in the case of overlining, and so on. The desire to wear it again never comes from me, only from external pressures, but it would be very easy to confuse the idea that I was wearing it to feel ok as me with the idea that I was wearing it for me.
She must have naturally good skin.
I have finally gotten a handle on my skin, meaning it is no longer painful.
Edit: I got to the point where she addressed her skin directly and she clearly damaged her skin barrier.
Do not go straight to a dermatologist, start with a very basic routine.
For me that means warm wet washcloth in the morning followed by Clinique super defense with spf 40.
The ordinary squalene cleanser taken off with a warm wet washcloth at night and followed by Clinique moisture surge.
I do use other things but if I see any issues I pare down to that and it helps immediately.
I use just rosehip oil and salicylic acid soap. Fairly lo-fi
Yes!! I know it's different for everyone, but rosehip oil literally transformed my skin. tried all the $50+ creams over the years and still had moderate (but consistent) acne. Started using rosehip oil and a gentle cleanser a few years ago and my skin is the best it's been since I was a kid.
This was interesting! I didn’t think she was being prescriptive for other people’s routines, I think she was just using her current routine as an example of how much she’s cut back. Everyone’s going to have to find the specifics that works for them- but probably the truth remains that you actually need less than you’re being taught by ads/media/skinfluencers etc. it seems like other commenters are getting turned off by her specific routine, but that’s not really the point I think she was trying to make. I think her message was more just to check in with yourself and not just be at the whims of larger power structures that want to control you for their benefit
Jessica's critical thinking goes way deeper than some of the other beauty-focused speakers you've had on the FC. Loved this!
My skin is incredibly sensitive so as a teen I tried to use some products for hormonal acne and then had to stop pretty fast. Birth control and aging helped with that (it wasn't too bad tbh) but I realized any time over the years when I got sucked into using a product (no matter how expensive or how mild) it would cause issues. SO for like a decade now, I use water and then birth control. I occasional get a zit, but I use an on-the-spot cream for that. And that's it. People are always so horrified, but I wondered if the product cycle is what messed up a lot of people (though definitely not everyone!). It's also worth noting I don't wear any face makeup and rarely some eye makeup.
Consistent use of steroid creams are so so bad, working hard to deal with my eczema without them and slowly wean off
Also, by the way, I see the subscriber ticker approaching a million. So, it’s premature but happy one million subscribers!