Why the End Of Z CAN'T be Canon

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  • Опубликовано: 22 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 135

  • @despeinado340
    @despeinado340 10 дней назад +34

    To be honest, the end of Z always felt pretty weird. I would have been completely fine if Toriyama had redone the whole thing. Sadly, since he's no longer with us, I think Dragon Ball should just be laid to rest

    • @cernacookie919
      @cernacookie919 5 дней назад +4

      No never let that rest bro it can't die😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

    • @zenkai182
      @zenkai182 5 дней назад +2

      we prob won’t get another series after daima but they could prob squeeze out more content by doing the rest of super and making the other movie characters canon or sum

    • @amadorcortinas2749
      @amadorcortinas2749 2 дня назад +1

      The true end of Z is the episode he's always late.

    • @halitoyt
      @halitoyt 2 дня назад

      @@zenkai182we probably will. Or if the new seasons wont get animated, then we dont

    • @despeinado340
      @despeinado340 2 дня назад

      @@amadorcortinas2749 YES. That's such a wholesome episode. I actually hated it as a kid cuz it was so different, but I love how strangely adult it feels. It's just a bunch of friends meeting for a barbeque and having fun. Krillin and Yamcha weven talk about his new car, and it's not even a funny exchange, just two grown men talking about cars.
      The fact that everyone's just wondering where the hell Goku is also encapsulates Dragon Ball as a whole. Goku's the one that put that whole group together, he's the glue that holds the crew in place, and that's one of the things I dislike about the actual End of Z. Are you really telling me that Goku hasn't seen Bulma in half a decade? Has their relationship really grown that estranged? It just doesn't sit well with me...

  • @avboyyy2
    @avboyyy2 10 дней назад +12

    1 thing about DBZ I couldn’t really grasp is Vegeta saying he will beat Goku one day.
    HE BEAT HIM IN THE SAIYAN SAGA! Vegeta got jumped by 4 people.

    • @regbart
      @regbart 9 дней назад +4

      It’s been stated that in Vegeta’s mind, the fact he had to go great ape and was sparred by a low class warrior means he lost

  • @ACertainMan
    @ACertainMan День назад +6

    1. End of Z doesn't say if Gohan kept up with his training or not.
    2. Vegeta and Goku weren't going all out in their duel since they didn't use and transformation or technique.
    3. The times of peace thing makes sense since overall the time period was peaceful
    4. Uub is op, his raw ki alone fueled Goku to go UI in the Moro arc.

    • @Jim-pq9pm
      @Jim-pq9pm 10 часов назад +1

      Yea overall peaceful..except for an immortal god stealing Gokus body and threatening all of reality. But other than that...

    • @ACertainMan
      @ACertainMan 10 часов назад

      @Jim-pq9pm future issues, the black arc did nothing for the present lol.

    • @Jim-pq9pm
      @Jim-pq9pm 4 часа назад

      @@ACertainMan Semantics. Everyone was aware of the problem

  • @boodastillstanding2636
    @boodastillstanding2636 3 дня назад +7

    I look at it like this, EoZ is End of Dragonball Z for me.
    Super is another continuity to me.

  • @EricN64
    @EricN64 4 дня назад +4

    Maybe there’ll be a new rewritten end of Z at the end of super, like how Z Broly and Z Bardock were rewritten during super and then seen as the “canon” versions

  • @trerchry
    @trerchry 3 дня назад +3

    I’m of the belief at this point, especially with Daima entering the scene, that we’re now seeing alternate timelines of what happens after the Buu arc. So far, these are the timelines I’ve counted:
    1. The “End of Z” timeline
    2. The “Super” timeline
    3. The “Daima” timeline
    4. The “GT” timeline
    *As a bonus, I’d even count the Z movies (“Dead Zone” all the way through “Wrath of the Dragon”) as alternate timelines.
    EDIT:
    Along with the “Dragon Ball” movies (not including Z, Super, Daima; just the first Dragon Ball series where Goku was a kid for most of the arcs) as alternate timelines.

    • @FlancitoConCebolla
      @FlancitoConCebolla 3 дня назад +1

      I would love that. To do some kind of different realities plot like the MCU would be so freaking cool.

  • @j.i.k2.044
    @j.i.k2.044 12 дней назад +6

    Its kinda 50/50 for me, I think the Super manga aligns more with the end of Z than the anime. Since Toriyama directly confirmed its canon I reckon Toyotaro will still continue viewing it that way regardless of the obvious inconsistencies

    • @ProbablyGoku
      @ProbablyGoku  12 дней назад +1

      Me personally I hope Toyotaro redoes the End of Z to align more with Super

    • @AdvaitGulhane
      @AdvaitGulhane 11 дней назад +3

      @@ProbablyGoku Toyotaro did state that he would so your hope might be answered

  • @Pero-zl4jp
    @Pero-zl4jp 10 дней назад +4

    Small things like goku and bulma not speaking i am ok with changing that. It just feels bitter sweet that these two childhood friends would go so long without talking especially since their sons are best friends.

    • @DAWNg444
      @DAWNg444 9 дней назад

      very bitter sweet bulma is one of gokus first friends in dragon ball

    • @Pero-zl4jp
      @Pero-zl4jp 9 дней назад

      @ arguably first

  • @AdvaitGulhane
    @AdvaitGulhane 11 дней назад +3

    1:07
    Uub made a pretty big contribution in the Moro Arc.
    He recharged Goku to MUI to a point where Goku was strong enough to beat Moro and if you think about it, Uub is Majin Buu but in a weaker vessel.

    • @Gohan9112
      @Gohan9112 10 дней назад +2

      Which is absurd since Goku in base form could defeat Kid Buu. At worst he'd need SSJ1. So how was Uub who should be relative to Kid Buu at best contribute more ki than Vegeta, Gohan and Piccolo could?

    • @AdvaitGulhane
      @AdvaitGulhane 10 дней назад +1

      @@Gohan9112 If Kid Buu was able to beat the Kais who managed to beat Moro and by this knowledge
      Kid Buu > Grand Supreme Kai > Moro
      Not that hard to think of, maybe Uub/Buu had more latent potential and just wasn't able to use it without the help of Bibidi's mind control

    • @regbart
      @regbart 10 дней назад

      @@Gohan9112I wanna see where Goku in base form could beat kid Buu because wtf are you talkin about 💀

  • @inferno3054
    @inferno3054 2 дня назад +3

    1:00
    One thing that Toyotaro did to fix this was make Uub god-tier. In the Moro arc, Uub was capable of allowing Goku to transform back into UI and create the entire ki construct by just giving him some of his energy.
    DBS Uub >>>> Kid Buu.

  • @sammysam2142
    @sammysam2142 6 дней назад +4

    What if the end of Z is cannon
    But Super is it's own continuity and not exactly cannon to Z?

  • @Localtuber961
    @Localtuber961 10 дней назад +4

    If I’m being honest it really should have been like super be a continuation of z because Goku having god ki in his base and going against a 12 year old boy is crazy

    • @ProbablyGoku
      @ProbablyGoku  10 дней назад

      @@Localtuber961 fr

    • @letemknowdae
      @letemknowdae 10 дней назад +1

      It’s actually revealed in the super manga that Uub has god ki since he was born, apparently when buu absorbed Grand supreme Kai buu got his god ki as well, after buu splits into evil and fat buu it’s stated in the Moro arc that the evil buu that eventually becomes kid buu took the god ki while fat buu sustained Grand supreme Kai’s physical form, and that’s why kid buu was so powerful in Z because he retained the god ki from Grand supreme Kai and when he was reborn as Uub he kept the God ki. So in the end of Z and in super Uub has god ki already.

    • @cosmefulanito6854
      @cosmefulanito6854 9 дней назад +1

      I don't think that's how god ki works. Goku doesn't have god ki permanently. He turns his mortal ki into god ki when using SSJ God or Blue. This used to be different in the movies, where he did indeed absorbed SSJG into his base form, but that's no longer the case once both the anime and manga decided that God would remain a transformation and not a new base form.
      Also, for that other comment talking about this: God ki is something that mortals have to use consciously. A mortal with god ki within them will still be using regular ki (their normal energy as humans or whatever mortal race they are) instead of the god ki. That's why Fat Buu couldn't use it until the powers of the Grand Supreme Kai awoken within him, and only then he got a massive power boost. Both Kid Buu and Uub are the same. Kid Buu was on SSJ3 level because that was the level he had after absorbing the Kais. If he knew how to use god ki, he would have had a similar power up to Fat Buu. Then Uub is going to be even below this level since he's not used to fighting in the first place, much less to using god ki or knowing it exist at all

  • @NeoFlonx
    @NeoFlonx 3 дня назад +4

    The eoz will go thru a lot of changes
    Also oob also restored gokus energy to go pui giant form
    Vegeta and Goku didn’t use Ki attacks

  • @sj1productions68
    @sj1productions68 2 дня назад +1

    Personally, I think that, after Black Frieza is taken care of, in a fight so grand that it shakes the Multiverse, Goku and Vegeta may lose access to God Ki somehow after Frieza's taken down for the last time, and that'll explain why they don't have God Ki in the End of Z.

  • @Jay35513
    @Jay35513 8 дней назад +6

    1. The bulma statement has been clearly retconned via super
    2. Yes Goku should be excited to fight Uub and Uub should be able to box base Goku. DBS Moro arc made him stronger literally shown to power Goku's ultra instinct
    3. For Vegeta wanting to fight Goku again even though he already beat him in superhero is because They are Saiyans who love to fight. Vegeta always enjoys fighting with Goku but this was already established in the buu saga that he matured his ego against Goku. Yes he beat Goku but they did it in their BASE FORMS + Vegeta admires Goku’s power so of course he’ll fight him again 😭
    4. Bulmas design is irrelevant as there are many authors statements that superhero is building up to the final chapter so Bulma’s appearance is irrelevant. Her appearance changes a lot in short timespans as shown in Z.
    5. For Gohan not keeping up with his training There’s no proof of this. Gohan just has a sleeper build 😭
    6. This video can be debunked by it being a Nirvana fallacy by nature setting realistic expectations over an idolized one contradictions and inconsistencies don't define a cannon the authors do Toriyama literally confirmed that the story is leading towards this end of Z there's no debunking this its objective truth it's literally cannons Dragon Ball super you can't disprove toriyama's word
    7. For the they have not had a period of Peace argument you made Time of peace could be referring to any period of time. The black Frieza saga is within the same year of superhero as it happens directly after. The time of peace in question is the 1 year timeskip after the black Frieza saga

    • @Jay35513
      @Jay35513 8 дней назад

      And end of Z is one year after superhero

    • @ProbablyGoku
      @ProbablyGoku  8 дней назад

      @@Jay35513 You're right with most of these points I'll give you that but Vegeta said "Sooner or later I will defeat you Kakarrot" implying that Goku has surpassed him I never said anything about Vegeta wanting to fight Goku was inconsistent. Uub shouldn't be able to box with Base Goku. Base Goku currently in Super has drastically surpassed the likes of Buu and Uub giving energy to the spirit bomb doesn't mean he's any stronger, if he was that strong SSJ3 Goku being relative to kid Buu wouldn't make any sense. But your comment is still right despite all the inconsistencies I can't argue with Toriyama's Canon I'll give u that from now on I'll put more effort into making better videos🙏🏽

    • @Jay35513
      @Jay35513 8 дней назад +1

      @ProbablyGoku thank You and also for the vegeta statement,
      he says "sooner or later I will defeat you kakarot"
      yes, he did beat goku in superhero but there are some issues.
      1. The battle was base vs base. Vegeta would want a challenge with no limiters. He may or may not have taken the battle as 100% legitimate but even if he did, this brings me to my next point...
      2. Goku has gotten way stronger than himself from his fight with Vegeta. Since Vegeta acknowledges this great power, he says stuff like
      "sooner or later I will defeat you kakarot"
      This is basically him saying that he's going to defeat Goku AGAIN after witnessing what he's capable of doing now. hes impressed and wants to keep up

    • @Jay35513
      @Jay35513 8 дней назад +1

      @ProbablyGoku and I mean bro think about this since end of Z is 1 year after superhero and Goku is said to be the strongest in the universe in end of Z THIS WOULD MAKE HIM STRONGER THAN BEERUS 😭 so of course Vegeta is going to try to fight him again

    • @Jay35513
      @Jay35513 8 дней назад +1

      @ProbablyGoku Goku literally surpassed beerus in 1 year Vegeta would of course want to try to fight him

  • @samuelrodriguez9801
    @samuelrodriguez9801 День назад +2

    Yeah, trying to fit Super, GT, End of Z and the DB Online timelines together makes no sense.

  • @ueIl
    @ueIl 6 дней назад +2

    End of Z can only really fit the GT continuity (and maybe Daima's too) but CERTAINLY not Super's

  • @Sjono
    @Sjono 3 дня назад +2

    Dragon Ball continuity is all over the place being spread separately across the anime, manga and movies

  • @cheeselover7368
    @cheeselover7368 10 дней назад +3

    Honestly, it’s better than I thought nothing toyotaro can’t tweak to fix up the story.
    Like for all we know goku hasn’t seen bulma since the Granola arc so the 4 years statements is fine.
    Uub has all the God ki from the Grand Supreme Kai so Goku knows Uub is strong.
    Whis and Beerus also don’t have to show up and who takes vegeta serious atp I think he’s like 3-0 against Goku anyway
    Also I’d say there’s relatively been 10 years of peace most of the action were tournaments or off world fights and there’s been no civilian deaths in super

    • @Pero-zl4jp
      @Pero-zl4jp 10 дней назад

      I agree I don’t think there was much tragedy since Buu. Everything off world or relatively low stakes.

    • @ProbablyGoku
      @ProbablyGoku  10 дней назад +1

      Imo Toyota can tweak the story, The Granola Arc is year 781 which is 3 years before the End of Z not 4 and there's definitely NOT been peace Beerus almost destroyed earth, Freeza Did destroy earth, there was a multiversal tournament deciding the fate of their entire universe and last be not least Broly and Moro so idk how you would consider that peace

    • @firionkaiser8291
      @firionkaiser8291 5 дней назад +1

      ​​@ProbablyGoku It was never stated in the OG manga that theres been ten years of peace. That was some bs line the anime added.
      Plus none of the people on Earth were aware of these conflicts unlike Cell, and Buu. For the most part Earth was at peace though. Beerus never destroyed the planet, Frieza destroyed earth but Whis rewinded time technically that never happened, U6 vs U7 was harmless, Goku Black happened in the future, Earth was not even affected by the ToP, Broly happen but no one was really affected aside from Goku and Vegeta, Moro is the only one where people mysteriously felt weak but otherwise didn’t know what was going on, Granolah happened off planet, and Super Hero managed to happen in a somewhat secluded part of earth that didnt affect anyone aside from the RR headquarters.
      For the most part the entirety of Earth was hardly affected by these events but again it was never stated in the original manga that there was ten years of peace.

    • @SpeedPunch
      @SpeedPunch 4 дня назад

      It just said ten years pass , so they could reword it​@@firionkaiser8291

    • @cheeselover7368
      @cheeselover7368 3 дня назад

      @@ProbablyGoku if we define peace time just by the fact that people of earth weren’t killed then it’s fine and it’d was a pretty peaceful time for earth since they don’t know what’s going on. Also, Goku doesn’t meet Bulma in year 781 unless Moro happens in the same year.

  • @cernacookie919
    @cernacookie919 5 дней назад +2

    I think its canon its just before super and after the buu saga because in the manga i think it showed uub in the SUPER manga and in the show its after z and to top it off its called end of Z not super

  • @emak2999
    @emak2999 3 дня назад

    Also in super Goku doesn't see Bulma since the tournament of power. Uub is not only kid buu reincarnation, is also the reincarnation of the fat kaioshin divine powers, so Goku probably thinks that with proper training he could have more power than him. The vegeta beating Goku thing, I think that he probably refers to a real fight. For the 10 years of peace, yeah, that doesn't make sense

  • @DinoDom13
    @DinoDom13 4 дня назад +1

    It's Somewhat Canon to Super it will probably be adapted and changed Abit to fit Dragon Ball Super

  • @cosmefulanito6854
    @cosmefulanito6854 9 дней назад +1

    I disagree. All the reasons mentioned here are very small reasons that don't mean much and can be fixed simply by redrawing End of Z, which is extremely likely they'll do. All of the events of End of Z still happen but all the details that were different due to EoZ being right after Buu originally would be taken out, that's all. Goku being excited about fighting Uub still makes a lot of sense in Super, since Uub IS strong, even if he's not going to be as strong as the godly forms they have. I don't think it would be like Goku to lose interest in a fight just because the opponent can't match up all of his other forms (specially considering that in EoZ he didn't even use any transformations at all). Not only that, but there's also the fact that Uub has A LOT of potential if he has the power of Buu before any kind of training, and Goku most likely knows that.

  • @anime_world6684
    @anime_world6684 10 дней назад +1

    1:38 to be fair it’s “weird” frieza is back at all, super does a lot of “weird” stuff
    And super portrays Goku and Vegeta as equals, in Z it’s never been portrayed like that
    And if you read the Moro arc you should know uub isn’t fodder

    • @ProbablyGoku
      @ProbablyGoku  10 дней назад

      @@anime_world6684 i have them explaining Uub has God Ki doesn't change how strong he was. if it did then SSJ3 Goku being relative to him would make no sense

    • @anime_world6684
      @anime_world6684 10 дней назад

      @ Goku never even used super saiyan 3 or talked about it against uub. If I missed it it doesn’t matter since uub scales to max base Goku but no other stronger transformations

    • @ProbablyGoku
      @ProbablyGoku  10 дней назад

      Ik I was talking about SSJ3 Goku fighting Kid Buu

  • @Dr.Mlieko
    @Dr.Mlieko 6 часов назад

    Only the original manga that ran in Weekly Shonen Jump is canon
    easy as that

    • @Clyde975
      @Clyde975 6 часов назад

      That's not how it works.

  • @twobearshighfiving
    @twobearshighfiving 10 дней назад +5

    I think Toriyama has tried to end Dragon Ball so many times, only to be pressured into continuing it, that nothing can really be considered part of a single continuity

  • @omarreyes7626
    @omarreyes7626 10 дней назад +2

    well to be fair about the vegeta wanting to defeat goku again point, whis and beerus have stated in since the moro arc that goku's UI is still not perfected even with the silver hair transformation, Whis has told goku he needs to make UI his own as he's essentially copying the angels, and when goku sparred with gohan in beast form and used his UI form beerus said "so UI is still the best goku's got" to which Whis said "it would appear so" meaning goku's UI will evolve in the future.
    Uub has God ki now and when he used it on the moro arc Goku showed interest to one day meet the owner of such ki.
    Beerus and Whis not being present makes a lot of sense, they're literally gods, Whis visits often yes but it can take weeks or even months before he appears.
    Look it is true that the ending as it was left cannot work but it really doesn't need that many tweeks, Toyotaro himself has recently announced he will be integrating the ending soon, so we just need to wait and see.

  • @evilgosu378
    @evilgosu378 День назад

    As far as continuity goes the original Dragon Ball Manga is the original Canon all the other Dragon Ball material movies anime's super ,GT take place in alternate continuities for example super takes place in the alternate continuity where there was no 10 years of peace and there was always a constant threat GT takes place 5 years after the end of the original Dragon Ball Manga where the God of destruction never woke up no super saiyan gods instead you get more of a primal evolution with super Saiyan 4 along with many many other differences here and there between the different continuities

  • @FlancitoConCebolla
    @FlancitoConCebolla 3 дня назад

    For me anything other than OG Dragon Ball and DBZ, is just other contunuity. With Daima and Super's both manga and anime, DB's canon is a clusterf*ck

  • @meliorbutterfly
    @meliorbutterfly 10 дней назад

    why you need to disable the like and dislike?

    • @ProbablyGoku
      @ProbablyGoku  10 дней назад

      I didn't I literally didn't do that idk why it's doing that imma try to fix it

    • @user-kr9cg5vc84
      @user-kr9cg5vc84 10 дней назад +1

      The dislike button is auto hidden, that’s RUclips

    • @meliorbutterfly
      @meliorbutterfly 10 дней назад

      @@user-kr9cg5vc84 it's literally said "hidden by owner"

    • @user-kr9cg5vc84
      @user-kr9cg5vc84 10 дней назад

      @@meliorbutterfly ah, you’re using an extension. Who knows he could be

    • @curlydolltv
      @curlydolltv 7 дней назад

      why does it matter

  • @IndigoProphecy
    @IndigoProphecy 10 дней назад +7

    1 min in... dbz ended over 20 years ago super started in 2016...Dbz end is the end. Super came out 20 years later to milk npc fans like you, retconing a lot in the process.

    • @ProbablyGoku
      @ProbablyGoku  10 дней назад +7

      @@IndigoProphecy How am I an NPC fan in the video I'm just explaining the inconsistencies between End of Z and Super it's pretty obvious their gonna redo the End Of Z at the end of super

    • @Cio_d-borba
      @Cio_d-borba 10 дней назад +5

      It obviously is a retcon, but it's not as if the arc was fleshed out in the first place, as it was only composed of what, 3 episodes? If they redo a flashed out arc that fits into the new Dragonball lore and keep the plot from the original version I don't see anything wrong with it.

    • @thelettucebarrel7784
      @thelettucebarrel7784 10 дней назад +3

      Calling him an NPCs when your comment sounds more like an NPC than anything.

  • @ProbablyGoku
    @ProbablyGoku  10 дней назад +4

    I feel like people are missing the point of the video...that the End of Z needs to be redone to avoid plot holes and inconsistencies (I wonder when people are going to realize that the title of the video is clickbait)

    • @regbart
      @regbart 10 дней назад +1

      The reason why end of Z had an old bulma, long time of peace and no gohan training is because it was supposed to be THE END OF Z since it was made decades ago.
      Whereas super will continue even after where Z ended, meaning they needed to change things (bulma looking younger, no peace and we have broly now) to make it a better continuation.
      What I’m tryna say is, nobody is missing the point of the video, rather there is no point to this video

    • @ProbablyGoku
      @ProbablyGoku  10 дней назад

      @regbart it being made decades ago doesn't dismish the plot holes and inconsistencies if u write the end of a story and then later write the stuff leading up to that end there's no reason why you should have plot holes. There is a point to this video the End of Z needs to be redone

    • @regbart
      @regbart 10 дней назад

      @@ProbablyGoku So you expected them to have super in mind when they wrote the end of Z decades ago? That sounds dumb dude.
      The ending for Z was made decades ago, meaning they didn’t think they would continue after that, so there were plot points (bulma being old, world peace etc) that fit the ending of a STORY. (Keep in mind THEY WERE DONE WITH THE STORY AT THE TIME)
      Super is going in a direction where the end of Z portion isn’t the end of the STORY, they’ve retconned it with Super so they could have plot points that continue the STORY.
      Meaning, those “plot holes” you pointed out were actually necessary changes needed to further the story after the end of Z portion.
      (THE END OF Z IS NOT THE END OF SUPER)

    • @regbart
      @regbart 10 дней назад

      @@ProbablyGoku and dude I’m not sure if you can even comprehend, but the way Super is going, the end of Z will be redone 💀 how can you not see that?

    • @ProbablyGoku
      @ProbablyGoku  10 дней назад

      So did u not read my reply I said the End of Z needs to be redone to fit within Super. And no ofc they didn't have Super in mind when writing End of Z I'm saying if you write an end to your story and then later, write a prequel u shouldn't write plot points that make plot holes in the ending you wrote

  • @Seditionzz
    @Seditionzz 5 дней назад +1

    They ruined the whole series tbh

    • @ProbablyGoku
      @ProbablyGoku  5 дней назад +3

      @@Seditionzz wym?

    • @Seditionzz
      @Seditionzz 5 дней назад

      @ dragonball as a whole, even the fan made mangas are better then the actual canon show

    • @ProbablyGoku
      @ProbablyGoku  5 дней назад +2

      @@Seditionzz I wouldn't say that Fan made projects are good but most of them don't really represent what Dragonball truly is

    • @Seditionzz
      @Seditionzz 5 дней назад

      @ you kidding me ? Kukamia? Gives me the lethal dbz feeling for sure , not this kid bop bullshit they got now .

    • @ProbablyGoku
      @ProbablyGoku  5 дней назад +4

      @@Seditionzz Why are u pretending that DragonBall was this super serious show😭😭 and wym Kidz Bop? Please don't tell me you're talking about Daima??