Doomsday Machine vs Death Star | ( Star Trek vs Star Wars)
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- Опубликовано: 4 окт 2024
- In this video, we will be analyzing the Doomsday Machine from Star Trek against the Death Star from Star Wars. We will be reviewing different scenarios to find out which one of these planet killers would win.
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The Doomsday Machine would tear the Death Star apart.
The Star Trek episode "The Doomsday Machine" didn't really think take into account the real properties of neutronium. A spacecraft with a miles long hull made out of pure neutronium would have the mass of a small star. The Planet Killer wouldn't even need an antiproton beam to destroy its targets, it could tear planets (and the Death Star) apart with the tidal effects of its gravitational field just by approaching them.
I believe that if the DS super laser can obliterate a planet, the DS can also crack the the doomsday machine in half with a well placed shot on either side of the planet killer.
How about the Constitution Class USS Enterprise going up against a Super Star Destroyer.
The neutronium from Star Trek might be different from the one of neutron stars.
@@pat5882 Neutronium is the mass of a star compacted into something the size of a city, the Death Star isn't equipped for that. Going through the hull is not the path to victory. Neutronium is supposed to be so compacted that electron shells collapse. There's no blasting through that.
@@3Rayfire The super laser of the DS can penetrate through the crust of a planet and all types of inner crust and different types of rock formations to obliterate the mantle of a planet. So I have greater faith in the DS and the super laser taking out the DDM, than I have in a constitution class star ship using phasers.
@@pat5882 Definitely, but it's not shooting a planet, but a hull made out of collapsed star. It's a vastly different level.
The Doomsday machine is perfectly designed to destroy the Death Star
The neutronium hull of the Doomsday Machine is the ace in the hole! If the phasers which are more concentrated than lasers and had no effect on it, their super laser would more than likely stun it for a bit, but not destroy it and it would maneuver away from that firing arc and tear the Death Star to shreds!
Phasers are more concentrated and are usually more powerful than turbo lasers and even by Starfleet standards neutronium is known to be indestructible and Starfleet does have some pretty powerful stuff up their sleeve and the machine is capable of withstanding its own power to destroy a planet so you got that!
@@mrnobody.4069 The Romulan weapon from Balance of Terror might damage Neutronium at close range. I also believe the Gorn had a weapon that turned Neutronium brittle and easily shattered.
@@LG123ABCNo the Romulan plasma can't but disruptors probably can because they alter the target on the molecular level while being vary hot and energetic! So yes the Gorn do have disruptors! Star Wars does not though.
Doomsday machine from another galaxy not universe
The only possible way for the Death Star to defeat the doomsday machine would be for the deathstar to manuver the superlaser so it fires directly into the mouth of the thing. That would definitely take it out. The danger is, that its going to be a difficult target to hit, the doomsday machine is far more maneuverable. They'll basically get one shot at it, and then the Doomsday Machine's proton beam will obliterate the death star.
I recommend reading the TNG novel "Vendetta", it really expands on the Doomsday Machine's lore, where it came from and its abilities. The one seen in the episode is the beta-version :)
I was going to suggest that. The Doomsday Machine as a Borg killer.
the empire:Thats crazy...Lets build a doomsday Star!
I could see them perfectly lining up the death stars main weapon and missing.
Noice.
I'm impressed... I completely agree with your analysis
Fan theory says the DoomsDay Machine originated in the Star Wars -Universe- galaxy (Spock's analysis of the machines path against Federation star charts showed that it originated "from outside, from another galaxy"), and its "pure anti-proton' force beam weapon puts it on par with the Death Stars superlaser.
I tend to think the PK would end up winning against the DS in a straight firefight. It's true that the PK's beam took several shots to cripple a Constitution class ship ready for battle. I think the reason for that is due to the vast size difference. The PK beam is quite wide--several times the width of an entire starship. It's designed to take out planets and moons and--perhaps--even space stations. Federation starships are tiny by comparison. Only a fraction of the total energy contained in the anti-proton beam is directly transferred against the ship's defenses and most of it just sails right on past. Against a target the size of the DS, all of the energy fired ends up striking it directly. I still think the DS laser is considerably more powerful, but there is no indication that any kind of directed energy weapon regardless of potency will penetrate a neutronium hull. I'm not entirely sure if that means it's made from neutron star material, but I think there are sources that link the two. That stuff survives supernovae. I'm sure the DS laser would push the thing a fair distance and maybe send it into a tumble, but that's all.
If other Imperial ships or devices are involved then the PK probably is stopped in much the same way that they stop it in Trek. Someone blows something up down it's throat. One thing has always bugged me about The Doomsday Machine episode, though. Why didn't they ever try to fire down the thing's maw, either phasers or (better) torpedoes? Didn't we just see something like this in Andor with Luthen's ship against the Arrestor-class? The Enterprise should have dropped a torpedo spread when it had them tractored and was trying to eat them. Would have been nice of them to at least raise and dismiss the possibility because technobabble reasons, though.
Doomsday machine is one of my favourite tos episodes.. i remember the dominion had developed neutronium in trek and the federation acquired the technology and are starting to use it in new starships. But its but in took years to figure out and develop the ability to produce.
Neutron stars are made of Neutronium, which is currently the densest material known to exist, by scientists.
Is the Doomsday machine constructed from a shattered fragment from a Neutron star? If so, how?
Are you talking about STO or some other beta cannon? Afaik the only time neutronium was mentioned in connection with the Dominion on DS9 was the episode where rebel Jem'hadar found an Iconian installation with a working gateway, which had a nearly indestructible neutronium shell. I'm not aware of any alpha or gamma quadrant races gaining that tech unless you count the STO storyline where the Iconians come back.
@@johnassal5838 The Founderbunker on Cardassia Prime had a neutronium door, according to Kira.
@@johnassal5838 the only group in possesion of neutronium tech I'm aware of is the Think Tank from Voyager (5X20)
It's pretty much as you described. The Super Laser wouldn't pierce the Neutronium hull on the first shot. Doomsday will have time to maneuver and cripple Deathstar's primary weapon with its anti-proton cannon. Remember it has an artificial intelligence programmed to respond to threats. We didn't get to see the sophistication of it in the original series, but I would assume it had the intelligence of at least an R2 unit or even maybe Nomad.
I don't think it's that smart, honestly. I'd like the AI of the doomsday machine to that of maybe a tamed beast. You can point it at a direction to go at, but otherwise, it'll just behave like an animal. feeding, foraging, and responding to attack. It doesn't seem to have any idea of tactics beyond "point hurty thing at target and shoot"
I think the Super Laser wouldn't pierce the Neutronium hull, period. Neutronium is by far the hardest and densest material in the Universe, billion times stronger than steel or any super-alloy you can think of.
How do you know its capable of self repair?
@@eman67951 With its neutronium hull, self-repair wouldn't need to be an option.
Death cloud vs death star
Shadows vs. The Empire. Shadows will wipe out the Empire.
@@frankreynolds445 if the Shadows are affected by Telepaths, what could Palps do?
@@danspawn85 one telepath isn't enough. You need the Emperor of mankind to singlehandedly affect that many targets.
@@addisonchow9798 One ship, with one telepath is enough for a 1v1. Too bad Palps had Vader kill all the kids that were known to the Jedi for being force sensitive. He signed his own death warrant.
@@danspawn85 1v1 is fine, but wars are rarely 1v1 so the EOM will be needed to win battles while psykers created through gene seed are used to win wars. .
The Tarkin/Vader Death Star would be destroyed in a manner exactly as you described in your video. I’d like to think Darth Vader could use a the Force to steer the Planet Killer’s maw away from The Death Star. THAT would be an interesting turn.
Were Grand Admiral Thrawn and The Chimaera added to the mix, there would likely be a different outcome. Thrawn would study the Planet Killer from a safe distance. The Chiss would somehow deduce what type of culture created it and it’s purpose. He’d then capture the Doonsday Machine and proceed to destroy planets full of Rebel Scum. Thrawn would also (somehow) take time to reflect on the artwork that must gave existed within the culture that created the Planet Killer.
Crazy indeed. But cool. I remember a book a doomsday machine vs the borg collective. Oh i liked the strange new worlds credit sequence. I have mixed feelings. Some things look great other give me pause.
Hiya Shane! You ever play the star trek online mission with the doomsday matchine? That was awesome! 😎👍
This is an epic match up! Great picks Utopia 😎👍
The Death Star can show up on a planet's doorstep for intimidation or for R-and-R for the crew (it's not going to destroy _every_ planet it gets near). As such, all it would take is for the Planet Killer to happen to want to feed on that particular planet for them to meet-up.
I do think the DS would open up with its super-laser, and that's where luck plays an important factor. I agree with you that the super-laser wouldn't destroy the PK (much to the Empire's amazement), but it probably would damage it (it's head-cannon with me that the PK looks like it does because of the damage it took through the years). The key at that point is which systems would get damaged. If it was a critical system (e.g. the anti-proton beam), then it'd probably veer off to lick its wounds. Otherwise, the DS is now its new "special friend".
Whether now or later, the PK will eventually open up with its -P beam (the power of which would also surprise the Empire). While not as powerful as the super-laser, it can still destroy a planet after several shots. The DS has plenty of power for shields, but it also has a large area to defend. Also, there's no reason the Empire would think it would need to defend itself against something that powerful (not like it's going to be attacked by another super-laser; or a really thick mirror 😊).
All-in-all, I'm guessing the DS would only get a couple of shots off before the PK destroyed the shields (and possibly the DS in that shot). The DS would have to quickly consider jumping away before it gets destroyed (assuming it can). In either case, unless the DS was lucky in the damage it did (always a possible; especially with Force users onboard), that planet is doomed. 😲
The _damage_ was most likely caused by its passage through the Galactic Barrier edge the edge of the Milky Way: the high levels of ionizing radiation that make up the barrier may have interacted with its anti-proton weaponry in an extremely negative way.
Also the Doomsday machine can fire as many times as it wants and it's beam is powerful enough to rip apart a planet in a very short amount of time and the Death Star is much smaller than a planet and the original Death Star can only fire once every 24 hours so the Death Star is pretty screwed!
The Deathstar can fire its main weapon ONE TIME each 24 hours. It takes that long to recharge.
@@AllanFolm in that time the Doomsday machine can destroy several solar systems worth of planets!
Where did you get the figures to compare the relative power of a death star laser to an antiproton beam? It seems to me that the death star is nowhere near as maneuverable, and mostly because of that would wind up being lunch for the doomsday weapon.
Great question where is the math?
An anti-proton beam works best against hulls, the anti-protons (APs) will collide with the atoms of the hull they will mutually annhilate releasing massive amounts of energy. Against deflector shields however the AP beam is no better than a basic ion beam.
My prediction before watching the vid: From what I know about physics, The Doomsday Machine should be virtually immune to all forms of conventional attack due to its solid neutronium hull. Degenerate Neutron Matter is normally gravitationally bound and not particularly choosy about where individual particles reside. In order to theoretically damage it, you would have to strike it with enough force to accelerate individual particles to escape velocity. Anything less and the particles would just settle elsewhere and the "pile" would shift and collapse back into a sphere. You might be able to damage it with a sustained beam only moving particles at a fraction of escape velocity if they could be shifted faster than they collapse, but I doubt that's possible given the burst fire nature of the DS primary weapon.
Kirk stopped the Doomsday Machine by destroying the power core inside, leaving it adrift. On its own, the Death Star doesn't have anything big enough to use the same tactic. It'd take a lucky shot with the Super Laser to do the same. On the other hand, I don't think the Doomsday Machine can chase down a class 4 hyperdrive, so the DS could retreat to buy time and pre-position for a more favorable engagement.
The Doomsday Machine was thought to be from another Galaxy.
From outside OUR galaxy, not necessarily another galaxy; in the ST:TNG novel _Vendetta,_ it was posited that it was built as a prototype ANTI-BORG weapon just beyond the Galactic Barrier.
@@robgyanisu312 outside the milky way is empty spacei a void. Until you reach another galaxy.
@@robertmartinjr.4537 You obviously never studied astronomy: the Milky Way has a _halo_ of globular star clusters. . .just outside our galaxy!
@@robgyanisu312 that doesn't fly either it's implied that the doomsday machine is from another galaxy that is very very ancient.
@@robgyanisu312 plus you are relying on beta canon which doesn't count.
The reason that Starships can withstand an anti proton beam is because of how advanced and powerful Starship shields are
Not only would the doomsday machine easily destroy the death star, but I also think it could single-handedly bring the empire to its knees.
Also, I don't think the super laser would have any effect against the neutronium hull. By the time of TOS, the Star Trek universe has already seen planet killing weapons (Like the Xindi probe), and Spock (likely factoring this in), had said "There is no known way of blasting through it"
The Doomsday Machine was designed as a last-ditch effort to kill Borg.
I'd love to see the Borg from Star Trek face-off against the Shadows from Babylon 5.
I am curious, in the Star Trek universe what happened to the original Doomsday Machine after cooking company destroyed it? Was it just left adrift in deep space? Or did they send a science team in a couple of plugs out there to go research it and pull it back to a Starbase or something?
I don't think any of the TV series or movies have ever discussed this. My own guess is that Starfleet sent in two teams. First, a demolition team to make sure the device was thoroughly destroyed, and not just hibernating while repair bots fixed the damage. Second, a science team to learn whatever they could about the technology behind the machine, and the race that built and deployed it. After that, Starfleet doubtless started wargaming various Doomsday Machine scenarios, and improving their tactics and their technology based on the results of those wargames. Honestly, I think a decent writer could wring a good episode out of a crew participating in these wargames.
@@waltonsimons12 I remember from one Star Trek:Voyager comic that was a sort of tribute to the TOS episode "Doomsday Machine", it was stated that the remains of the machine (basically just its empty shell, the guts of it having been blown out) had been turned into a monument to all the destroyed planets and annihilated races the machine had encountered.
I can't remember if it was from Star Trek Online or a novel, the Doomsday machine went into dormant. After that Section 31 (think about Cerburus from the Mass Effect universe or The Men Im Black) took the machine to an undisclosed location
@@waltonsimons12 Interesting, I always wondered if Starfleet did analyze the technology , why couldn't they have used it against the Borg?
I've been thinking that same thing for years
The Doomsday Machine - where they went Right and where they went Wrong
It just so happens that the 2nd season of ST TOS premiered the year the 1st pulsar was discovered. Up to that point, our knowledge of neutron stars was very limited. Most of what we know about neutron stars is theoretical or calculated since it's impossible to study anything even close to that density in any practical way.
Right - the object would have given off a huge electromagnetic distortion effect that prevented standard communication.
Wrong - that electromagnetic interference, produced by its incredible mass woud interfere with any electronic operations within the device.
Right - neutronium is (theoretically) the densest material possible (Not including Flat Earthers), and so it would be very hard to disrupt with any sort of weapon.
Wrong - the object would be so massive, it would outweigh most G-class stars even though it was only miles long and therefore anything that got near it would be torn apart just for getting too close.
Right - just getting close to a planet would first sterilize that planet and then tear it up by shear tidal forces.
Wrong - Neutronium is so dense, that the entire device would have to be made of it and it would have to be solid with no open maw otherwise it would collapse on itself. It would have been impossible to build.
These are just a few of the things about the Doomday Device that we can suppose now.
The other problem is fueling. I did the math at one point and the writers of the show (none of whom were astronomers), didn't have a clear idea of just how big the earth is. Based on a few assumptions such as sloppy eating (10% efficiency), programming that it was required to destroy all planets in a system, and only consume as necessary, it would have taken the DM years to devour earth's moon, let alone earth or a whole solar system. Rigel was safe for centuries.
Doomday Machine vs. Deathstar - My opinion, DM wins every encounter with almost no damage unless they can re-create Kirk's impossible luck and genius and attempt to destroy it from within.
Even the Super-Laser would be useless against neutronuim. Star Trek canon, lasers are orders of magnitude weaker than phasers or disruptors. Lasers won't even penetrate a starship's navigation shields. Even a huge laser is still a laser whereas an Anti-proton cannon can destroy shields and break down the atomic structure of normal matter. It can even de-activate antimatter.
Imagine a shotgun with a barrel 100 m wide firing normal shot against a WWII PT boat's hull. The actual stream of death raining down on the PT boat is larger than the PT boat, but it would all bounce off.
I have couple of points but first I'd like to say that I agree with most of what you've said. The parts I don't agree with (at least not completely) are the following:
While it would be impossible to build a ship out of neutronium while retaining an opening using our (or even 24th century starfleet) technologies and scientific understanding, there is a possibility that a more advanced civilization could create things that don't make sense to us. Even if that probability is less than 1%, as long as it's above 0% then we can't fully disregard it. No concrete information is ever provided on just what the creators of that machine were capable of. Another example is the Dyson Sphere, such a construct would be physically impossible with our current understanding of engineering and physics (specifically orbital mechanics).
The next point I have to disagree is that of falling into the nomenclature trap in Star Wars, that is to say the belief that Star Wars weapons are laser-based because the name includes Laser in it. Most sources I have seen show them as shooting plasma bolts which puts them on par with Star Trek phasers as those are plasma-based as well. I believe that laser refers to the firing mechanism rather than the actual energy bolt, like how 18th century firearms could be called "Matchlocks" or "Flintlocks".
@@ericlanglois3782 I don't agree with the 1% possibility of a entirely new tech that enables the DM to be built. That's like arguing that because physics states that an elephant hanging by its tail over a cliff tied to a dandelion "isn't impossible" means that it must be possible. That's a "God of the Gaps" arguement. By all we know today, the writers in 1965 were pulling ideas out of their butts and had very little real science to go on. I can forgive it because that's all they knew at the time. What we know today unfortunately ruins a lot of past Sci-fi. BTW, a few people have discussed the Dyson Sphere and calculated that all the rocky planets and moons in the solar system couldn't provide enough material to built a full Dyson Sphere. A sphere of 1 AU is just too big unless you want it made of someting as thin as gold foil.
I'll give you the "Laser's nomenclature" but bear in mind that phasers 'bounced off' the neutronium surface of the DM in canon.
I can give you a link of a discussion about neutronium here.....ruclips.net/video/tWsWcWAcK2U/видео.html
When they talk about neutron degeneration, 1/3 the way through the story, they are saying that 1 tspn of matter from a neutron star would weigh 5.5 T kg, or 5.5 B tonnes.
When a neutron star collapses to its final form, all the space that makes up its atoms is squeezed out to leave nothing but neutrons. It goes from the size of the moon (although it weighs 3-4 times more than our sun) to the size of New York city. Consider that for a monent.
@@malachiXX I disagree with the god of the gaps idea, it's nothing like what I proposed. God of the gaps is the idea that anything we can't explain must have come from God... what I'm suggesting is that if there's a possibility that there is an understanding out there that we haven't reached, we will eventually reach it. Take flight for example, if you told Archimedes that people would one day fly through the skies in contraptions that are heavier than air he'd probably laugh in your face. To him that is 100% impossible by any and all means yet we eventually learned enough about aerodynamics, gravity and physics in general to make it a reality. The same happened with travelling faster than sound, it was said to be absolutely impossible for us to achieve it... until we did. And to top it off we're talking about science fiction worlds that have figured out faster than light travel, something that is as yet an impossibility by our understanding so who's to say advanced civilizations there haven't figured out some new type of physics that is beyond our current theories and understanding but that we'd eventually get to given enough time.
As for the neutronium, I wasn't arguing that the star wars weapons had any chance of damaging it, just that the weapons of Star Wars shouldn't be viewed as inherently inferior to the weapons of Star Trek just because of nomenclature.
@@ericlanglois3782 fair enough.
If the DS is the aggressor, and they have intelligence reports about its strengths & weaknesse from various attack ships that have failed to stop it, it should try a frontal attack, at range, and fire the super laser into the mouth, dead center down it's "throat". That should end the DM with one hit.
The Death Star is toast against this monster of a machine! The Empire would be lucky to get at least one shot using its super-laser before the DDM uses it anti-proton weapon to cause massive damage to its shields and eventually its hull. I would say that it would only take about 4 hits from the DDM to cause power failures on the station, rendering it a harmless husk ready to be consumed. Grand Moff Tarkin would have fled shortly after the second hit!
Another UNIVERSE or another GALAXY?
For the next match ups how about a Forerunner Fortress Class warship vs Shadow and Vorlan ships?
And a Abominator-class Offensive Unit from M Bank's The Culture series vs Retribution Class Battleship of the Imperium of Man from Warhammer 40?
Fun fack from a Star Trek book I read (can't remember the name sorry), the Doomsday Machine was made to kill the Borg. and after the first one was destroyed, they sent a Bigger and more powerful one out to kill the Borg.
"ST: TNG "Vendetta" by Peter David 1991. 🖖
The first was a prototype, Picard did a report when he was in the academy speculating that the shipyard the DM came from couldn't be that far outside the galaxy because of how the DM fueled itself. Guinan's sister learned of this and went looking. The production model DM was almost finished, and she was able to complete it and then went Borg hunting.
Nice job! Now how about Species 8472 OR the Shadows vs. The Death Star or the Empire's biggest Fleet?
Species 8472 would destroy the Death Star. All they have to do is combine a few ships together and shoot it.
@@keithsantana145 THAT I'd like to see, especially as they could duck in and out of Fluidic space!
@@dennisud I forgot Species 8472 go in and out telepathy. fluidic space. They are also powerful as telepaths.
@@keithsantana145 Telepathy vs The Force?
Fascinating! One to one it seems like The Doomsday machine takes it 9 out of 10.
In the larger SW universe the Empire would eventually figure out its weakness after they get desperate enough, alot of dead planets and Downed Deathstar first. The Empire would win faster if Thrawn or Vader is on the case.
Another interesting match up would be the World Devastators vs the Doomsday Machine
the Jem'Hadar vs the Imperal Knights
Khan Noonien Singh vs Kir Kanos
I think they would be smart enough to see a threat and scramble fighter for a distraction and fire their massive amount of Guns at the thing while aiming The Super Weapon at it's Maw the giant gaping mouth and fire it inside and destroy it to me Death Star wins high difficulty.
the death star ignores ships of that size
Being as "The Doomsday Machine" is my favorite Trek episode (and has been since childhood), my bias has the DM murderdeathkilling the Death Star.
William Windon (Commodore Matt Decker) was the best actor for the role. You could feel the anguish in his voice over the fate of his crew. BTW He reprises the Decker character in the fan made Star Trek New Voyages episode" In Harm's Way" You might want to check it out here on YT BTW Sol Kaplan's music score for that episode was perfect.
@@geekhillbilly2636 I saw it a long time back.
Fun Vid and Interesting Sci Fi VS this one. I would go with the DD over the DS cause I can see the Empire's Hubris being a big factor.
I'd like to see the odyssey from Stargate take on an imperial star destroyer from star wars one on one.
For that matter maybe you can make a whole star wars vs Stargate series. As far as I know no one has actually done this. I've checked a lot of channels looking for this and I haven't found it.
For some reason I now want to see Darth Vader vs a Gouald with a hand device XD .
(a force push-off, if you will)
This is a good episode 👌
Honestly, I think the DS gunners would target the Mouth of the DM; maybe because, look at it- where are you gonna aim?
It's like saying to aim at the barrel of a gun.
@@RuminatingKiwi927 If a Constitution-Class can comfortably fly thru it, that's a big arse barrel; and we saw the DS pop a few Mon Cal ships. Those shots hit targets roughly the same size as the opening- and I'm pretty sure they were moving.
well if the death star tries to fire first, they might fire at it while ite at an angle, where they would not damage it... on the other hand, if they wolait for it to line up, it might fire first, in which case; it could one shot the death star.
This is a fun thought experiment, and I believe it might be more of an even match than many seem to think. Some of my thoughts:
The Death Star megalaser is _much_ more powerful than the Planet Killer's antiproton beam. It is designed to one-punch an entire planet into rubble in seconds, regardless of any shielding. I imagine the DS's main beam is strong enough to damage even the PK's neutronium hull, although it would might take several shots to fully penetrate it. The PK, on the other hand, needs some time (several hours?) to slice-and-dice a planet up for consumption, and shields can hold up to it, to some extent. It needs unfettered access to an object in order to disintegrate it.
And that's the key element to my mind-shields, I think it really comes down to how capable the Death Star's shields are. Are Star Wars shields capable of resisting the PK's antiproton beam as well as the Star Trek ones? I think most would agree that they would provide at least some protection. It is also fairly safe to say that the Star Wars universe has greater access to raw energy, both for offense and defense, and that the DS's main reactor can certainly generate plenty of it. This is no mere starship, remember, it is a small moon.
So to my mind, it all comes down to how capable the DS shields are and how fast it can recharge them. If it can keep up with the PK's bombardment, then it would have the long-term advantage. It could just sit there absorbing blasts until ready to fire, then deliver a devastating blow, even to the PK's otherwise nearly impervious shell.
Side thought: Imagine a Planet Killer versus a fully shielded Star Wars planet. I personally don't think it would ever be able to get through the shield, as ground-based generators are able to produce _a lot_ of power, and the planet would be safe indefinitely. This is the main reason why I think the Death Star's shields could hold up for a similarly long time.
Also, if we are allowed full tactical abilities, then the Empire could also send out "smaller" ships to harangue the PK and trick/force it to waste it's energy beams dealing with them, while they recharge for their next megablast. A few rounds of this and the Death Star would have the victory.
How fast the megacannon can recharge is another open question, however. I seem to remember the original DS only being able to fire one full-power blast per day, but that may be non-canon, and DSII appears to have improved on that. I don't remember how long the PK can keep firing, either, but it does seem to need fairly regular refueling to keep going. It may not be as able to maintain itself in a protracted battle.
In short, while the Death Star is certainly more of a glass cannon than the Planet Killer, the PK's weaker attack, against a DS with fast shield regeneration and a mighty punch, would tip the balance in its favor. But if the shields of the DS turned out to be less capable, then it would be toast as soon as they collapsed.
P.S. Here are 2 more for you (if you haven't done them already):
Death Star Vs. Borg cube
Death Star Vs. Species 8472 BioShip
How about the cloaking devices of each? I mean obviously the matter/antimatter reactors are superior to the SW reactor, otherwise a BOP couldn't cloak, according to SW tech.
actualy the advantage with the Doomesday machine actualy is its Subspace Distortion Field and its Anti Proton Beam which prevents contacts with factions like Starfleet in the case with Star Wars The Death Star would have no chance to make contact with the Empire cuz of the distortion field
Sounds about right. Empire loses alot of everything at first but they'd kill it eventually. It's just one machine vs an entire galaxy.
In the original episode Kirk said that it’s from another galaxy not another universe and Spock confirmed that by projecting it’s course back on their star charts which indicates it was from another galaxy…..there’s a big difference between a galaxy and a universe.
I don't know if the Doomsday Machine came from another galaxy, but if it did then would need some sort of g-warp drive, designed to keep it travelling the void between galaxies while powering down all other functions to conserve fuel.
Supposing that this was the case, then attacking it before it can reach the matter-rich regions of a galaxy and start chowing down on all of the planetary real estate would mean that it is vulnerable. It might take a few minutes to reactivate normal functions. It has no planets nearby to recharge itself, so it must avoid using its anti-proton weapon at full strength and hope that an enemy is deterred enough for it to break off and keep on its course.
It's extremely unlikely such an encounter would occur, since it's relatively small as vessels go and might not even have much of an energy signature. If you were specifically looking for intruders moving at faster than light speed, then I guess maybe you would detect it.
As for an actual battle between a Death Star and a Doomsday Machine, I think it's consistent to assume that the super laser wouldn't punch through the neutronium shell.
As an aside, I don't think anyone would actually build anything out of stellar neutronium. Rather, they would try to replicate some of the properties of neutronium in a more convenient and malleable form. It would still be a very tough material, and it would read as neutronium, but it wouldn't have the ridiculous density that you would find in a neutron star. Doesn't need that much density to be an effective defence against enemies using conventional starships and energy-based weapons.
So, the super laser might be powerful enough to heat up the skin of this neutronium armour. Great, you've made it glow red hot, now what?
If the Doomsday Machine has just fed on a planet, its energy reserves are at their best and it can retaliate with a full-strength anti-proton blast. If it is intelligent enough it might aim to punch right through to the core of the Death Star, which would not only deprive it of power but possibly cause the explosion that the Rebel Alliance was hoping to achieve.
I'm just imagining Red Squadron preparing for launch when an announcement comes over the comms that the Death Star has been destroyed by an unknown vessel and their mission is scrubbed. Also, the unknown vessel is now on a course for Yavin 4. 😆
If the Doomsday Machine is low on fuel reserves then I assume it would just ignore the attack and keep going towards a fuel source. Its programming allows it to retaliate against threats, but might include directives to preserve itself as long as possible too, and it can't do that if it runs out of fuel.
Eventually, maybe the Empire (or the Rebels) figures out that the internals of the Doomsday Machine can't all be this neutronium armour, so they load up a small ship with a ridiculous amount of explosives and let it get sucked in by the tractor beam, detonating when it crosses the threshold of the machine's mouth. Until then, it'll just carve up the galaxy like a roast.
The Empire thought that their Death Star was the ultimate power in the universe, but the Doomsday Machine is far more terrifying. It has no agenda, no desire to rule the galaxy through fear. It can't be reasoned with. It just wants to (as far as we know) break down all planets to satisfy a program that was enacted by its long-dead creators.
The Problem with Star Wars is that the term "Laser" has never been defined. Is it a laser as we know it, or is it on par with Phasers but just called a Laser because of language differences?
The Planet Killer is described as being "miles long" and the average Star Destroyer is just under a mile in length (1600 meters), so the Planet Killer is actually bigger than even a Super-Star Destroyer (1900 meters). As for the Empire, their best bet is to shoot that Super-Laser down the Planet-Killer's maw, in which the probability of hitting a bullseye is pretty slim. That Super-Laser isn't going to do much if anything against that Neutronium hull. Sending out fighters, cruisers or even Star Destroyers is just giving the Planet Killer more fuel. It can also maneuver far better than the Death Star so it's not going to stand there and let it get hit by the Super-Laser.
All in all, unless the Empire comes up with the same crazy idea Kirk had with detonating a large ship inside the Planet Killer, the Death Star will just be destroyed.
Here's an idea, Space Battleship Yamato versus the Death Star.
I think the big advantage that the DM has is its warp drive. The DS has no way to detect it and the DM can drop out of warp at close range and open up with its main weapon.
The big disadvantage is it's like a dog, when it wants to attack it has to lead with its most vulnerable point, and if a shuttle blowing up inside can cause damage, the shear mass of fire even the secondaries of the DS can put out could sandblast the interior of the DM.
With a neutronium hull that is impervious to any and all energy weapons and a *PURE* anti-proton beam the Doomsday Machine would obliterate the Death Star with ONE blast!
One weapons which might have the best effect against the Doomsday machine, are proton torpedoes. After a lot of losses, the empire might figure out how long the Doomsday machine takes to recharge. A fighter could make a run for the mouth, and fire a pair of proton torpedoes inside. Being the Doomsday Machine uses an anti-proton beam, it could mean it has a nice store of antimatter to generate such a beam, and protons, when brought together with anti-protons annihilate each other with a vast release of energy. In Star Trek, photon torpedoes might have worked great, if fired into the maw. I guess the Enterprise was out of torpedoes that episode.
Wrong. The whole reason they couldn't even fire inside the maw of the doomsday machine was specifically because the machine itself remotely turned off all antimatter reactions, therefore rendering torpedoes a dud
@@homelessend8557 Star Wars Proton Torpedoes are fusion weapons, though, not m/am. They might not be deactivated by the Doomsday Machine's dampening field. The question is, how many Proton Torpedoes would it take to equal an impulse drive overload (which is what Kirk used to defeat the planet killer)? They would need an explosive yield of 97 megatons.
If the old stats from the Star Wars technical manual are accurate for Proton Torpedoes (1 kiloton per torpedo), then the Empire would need to dump 97,000 Proton Torpedoes inside the Doomsday Machine's maw to shut the thing off. Of course, they could use higher yield warheads, but I'm guessing the number would still be really high. And they'd better hope the planet killer doesn't fire while an enormous cloud of warheads is leaving their ships.
@@Acrosurge 1 kiloton? 1 kiloton? 97 kilotons wouldn't dent any part of a planet oblilirating machine
Talk about force! The members aboard Death will find out about force for real if they square off with the Doomsday Machine.
Advantage goes to the Planet Killer
Doomsday machine! Definitely
I am not familiar with the entire Star Trek cannon.
I wasn't aware of the stories about the fate of the DDM.
And that bugged me.
Because it was a GIANT PLOT HOLE in the original episode.
After they 'killed' the DDM....what did they do?
They were sitting on 427,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 metric tons of pure neutronium.
The value of the mining rights to that are enough to change the economy of the entire galaxy.
Kirk and Spock should have resigned their commissions and gone into the neutronium business.
THAT is logical.
There's no known way of blasting through the hull of planet killer. Neutronium is so dense until the gravitational waves are close to the strength of a black hole. Just getting near the death star would destroy it.
No matter what you call them, Star Wars weapons are still lasers which pale in comparison to phasers. Since phasers had no effect on the Doomsday machine, neither would the Death Star's lasers. As you said, the personnel on the Death Star would not be smart enough to devise a plan to defeat it. They would just keep firing their squirt guns at it. Kirk only defeated it because of Decker's suicide. Without Decker's move, Rigel would have been doomed. The Doomsday Machine would have fired on the Death Star as soon as it was in range. We know that the shields in Star Wars do not compare to those in Star Trek since a little x-wing could destroy things on the surface of the death star. An x-wing could do no damage to a starship. So the doomsday machine would have kept firing, blowing huge holes into with every shot it until it hit the main reactor and we know what happens when a tiny little laser hits the main reactor - boom. It would be a 10 minute battle at the most. No one would survive except for the tie fighter pilots but they would probably be too stupid to retreat. The Empire would gain nothing from the encounter since no one useful would have survived. Then the Doomsday machine would have blown apart every planet in its path. Maybe this already happened a long time ago in a galaxy far far away and when the Constellation encountered the Doomsday Machine it was a long time after the Empire encountered it and lost.
Size doesn't matter, the Doomsday Machine was designed to tear apart planets, not that its size matter. The neutronium hull offers protection, while the beam it emits slices and dices, then a powerful tractor beam pulls in debris to feed it. The Death Star on the other hand would need to shoot at the DM from a distance, once the DM got close enough it would continually fire at the Death Star to wear down its shields, the Empire would be forced to sacrifice its fleet to give the Death Star a chance to run. or hope that the DM's power would run out first, if it cannot replenish its fuel (even though it may be millennia old).
DDM versus Death Star?
Who'd win that fight?
It really depends on how the two approach one another.
If the DDM moved directly against the side of the Death Star, with the superlaser focus lens,
then the Death Star would have a clear shot down the throat of the DDM. Death Star wins.
If the DDM approached the Death Star from ANY other angle, the Death Star is dead.
In DD vs DS, it would be a race against time for the Empire to come to the same realization that Kirk and co. did since while I disagree that the DD can punch down the DS's shields in any reasonable time, it CAN pass right through them like the rebel fighters did and then the DS is pretty much a one shot since it is mostly hollow compared to an actual planet or moon and the DD's anti proton beam will almost certainly cut straight through it.
The novel for the episode stated that 1 cubic inch weighed 1 ton.
In the Star Wars universe, the doomsday machine would not be that difficult to take out. That's provided they have the proper intelligence to learn the machine's weaknesses. The Death Star probably cannot engage it directly. It would have to launch fighters, such as TIE bombers, armed with proton torpedoes, and have them swing in front of its maw, to deploy them down its throat. Then when it's significantly internally damaged, they can have a ship lob a 100 megaton nuke, which should be enough to finish it off. Now comes the fun part. You'd have a couple a thousand meters of neutronium hull you can build something truly nifty, inside, say, a compact version of the Death Star. The neutronium might make it a bit on the heavy side. But get it moving, it may work great for ramming ships.
No contest: the DDM's anti-proton beam would blast a StarDestoyer-sized hole through the Death Star.
Neither Death Star's weapons would be able to penetrate the DDM's neutronium hull.
Ugh... Kirk, nor anyone else, says anything about the machine being from another universe.
Degenerate Matter, which is what the Doomsday Machine's hull is made of, cannot carry an electrical current, therefore is the reason why the Constellation's Impulse engines exploding in a 97.835 megaton fusion blast is why it was taken out. The Neutronium hull would confine the fireball and blast. Info is from Memory Alpha and the latest edition of the Starfleet Technical Manual.
The Death Star would be a snack.
In a head on engagement the Death Star, either one, would simply cease to exist.
As much as i think the DM has better tech in this case and pure anti matter beam should be like the mother of all weapons. The unfortunate coincidence in In Star Wars lore is the regular ships carry PROTON torpedoes that would probably actually be THE ideal weapon against a pure neutron hull if such a thing could exist outside of a stars gravity.
Once again, I would have to put my money on the Dooms Day weapon!
However,if Darth Vader was on the death Star,
He would be able to use the force to hold the Dooms Day weapon from moving so the death star could use the super laser to destroy it!
So it just all depends
as far as i am aware the DS-1 did not have the ability to target ships with it's super laser like the DS-2 did. also using the suicidal ramming attack in the DS-1 case would literally be impossible due to its size, slow speed and the fact no officer would likley be willing to make the call of "ya lets use the DS-1 as a bomb" given it has over a million personnel on board.
ALso importantly your scale is off. the average ISD in star wars is a KM long, the thee doomsday machine would fall roughly into the battlecruiser size catagory in SW.
How to kill the Doomsday device? Easy: Just take a cruiser and pull a ‘Holdo manoeuvre’ into its mouth.
What would happen if you put the planet killer against star killer base
Here's a match up for you the Argo (Yamato) and the wave motion gun versus the Death Star!
Agree 100%
The doomsday machine also tore apart planets but was only a mile long. The death star requires that enormous size to do the same things. so clearly we have two death star type ships only one is small and much more maneuverable. We have no idea how the death star would stand up to a planet destroying beam but its doubtful it can.
You fail to realize that the "Acclimator Assault Craft" had a hull that was hardened with Neutronium, All of the Star Wars capitol ships could penetrate that hull so a single shot from the "Death Star" would annihilate the "Doomsday Machine"! The "Death Star" wouldn't even need to use full power!
At the 4:28 point in the video the length of the DDM is given at 2772 meters. Compare it's size to the starships, that distance might be the diameter of the maw. The length of the Constitution class starship is about 950 feet (~310 meters). Compare that size to the length of the DDM as the Enterprise makes a strafing run along it, at least my rough guess puts the DDM at roughly 25,000 meters long. Also, given the density of solid neutrons, the hull would have to be only a few layers of neutrons thick (thinner than aluminum foil), otherwise it's mass would be so high that it would bury itself in the rubble of the first planet it destroyed.
asuming the doomsday machind doesn't have some means of controling gravity... like the artificial gravity on star trek ships... something the people who made it would have needed just to work with neutron stars
If the Doomsday Machine threatened populated planets in the Empire, the Rebellion might attempt to destroy it.
The only thing the death star would probably do that would stay off. The attack of the doomsday machine would be to drop it in a hyper space field and trap it there.
The Doomsday machine WAS NOT from another universe. It was most probably from outside the Milky Way galaxy. Completely Differant things.
As for Enterprise and Constelation being able to tank hits from the AP beam, its likely the Doomsday Machine is capable of calibrating its weapon proportionately for the kind of target its firing upon.
Would the Death Star have even happened if the Doomsday Machine hadn't occured first? And would "Jaws" have had the same iconing theme music?
P.S. Jawas are basically Cousin It from The Addams Familty.
Can Star Trek phaser burn through Mandalorian Beskar Armor?
yes, a phaser is a tractor beam rapidly alternating with a repulson beam. This tears, heats, and sometimes causes existential issues to targets. A phaser will cook the dude inside his shell.
Yes.
Well a phaser can vaporize people or blow up a building so I guess it can.
Damage a NEUTRONIUM hull? With an electromagnetic weapon? Ridiculous.
Only a merge with a Neutron Star or Black Hole (Or conjecturally, the strange technology that shaped such an impossibility in the first place) Would even put a scratch in it
For it to win, the deathstar would have to maneuver in the line of fire of the doomsday machine, and then be able to fire it's super laser down the doomsday machine's maw, before the doomsday machine could fire it's anti-proton weapon.
Depending on if it was the Death Star 1 or Death star 2: The DS1 would only have one chance, doing a straight full power beam down the Doomsday Machine's mouth/opening to disable or destroy it, otherwise if it missed, the Doomsday Machine would cut it up & destroy it, if the DS1 was unable to escape out of its range via its hyperdrive.. The DS2 could do one full-power shot down its mouth, miss, & then repower for an hour to get back up to full charge for trying again. If the DS2 hit the side neutronium armor, it would likely not do much except to get the DM's attention for sure & attack the DS2 in full. The DS2 not being as maneuverable as the DS1, might be even more susceptible to being destroyed by the Doomsday machine than the DS1 platform is. The other question would be for however many star destroyers are nearby to distract the DM from feeding on the death star while the main laser recharges.
a planetary destroying laser would should in the opening. the explosing would be higher then an exploding starship so the doomsday manchine would be destroyed
I doubt that if the Empire gets severely weakened, The Rebels would just sit on their asses, lol!
Even the Death Star superlaser against a neutronium hull would be worthless. But if it could get a shot straight into the planet killer's mouth, it would probably be far more devastating than detonating a Constitution Class starship inside of it.
No idea how the Empire shield technology compares to the Federation's. Not sure about whether the Death Star would hold up to the planet killer's anti-proton beam. With weak shielding, the Death Star gets wrecked.
The Doomsday Machine would eat the Death Star for lunch simply because the Doomsday Machine could easily outrange the Death Star's superlaser, plus has a highter firing rate.
Its completely obvious. The Doomsday Machine would treat the Death Star as a rather spicy snack before it goes on to gobble up the nearest planet.
Neutronium is more resistant to laser fire than you give it credit for...
Lasers fire light. Light is electromagnetic in nature, so it interacts with things that have electric charge and/or magnetic fields. Most matter is made of electrons, protons, and neutrons. Both electrons and protons have charge and magnetic fields, so they readily absorb energy from light. Neutrons have neither, so light would not interact with it at all except to refract and disperse it. It would be like shining a laser at frosted glass. The light will scatter, but will not be absorbed. In order to effect neutrons with light, you would have to use a wavelength small enough to effect the individual quarks inside each neutron, so
Probably; though as Lasers do have recoil (weird but true), the DM would notice it was being attacked.
Incidentally: the recoil from a superlaser like the Death Star's, was estimated by one channel as being able to fling the station backwards [from a stationary point] to over 200,000mph, in a few seconds... quite a massive design flaw XD
The funny part of all of this is that star trek ships can filter out laser shots for example, if the enterprise e got hit by the death star it would have no effect on the enterprise's shields or emitters and the other thing is the ships in star trek have longer weapons range then star trek the enterprise-A (ncc-1701) could just stay back from any star wars ship and fire its weapons and overall if star trek went to battle with star wars star trek would win. (also just because star wars is more popular then star trek does NOT mean it would win in a battle because star trek has better tech then star wars does I have proof if asked for it btw)
I attacked that doomsday machine on star trek online... and it hurts...
The DEATH star laser is able to destroy a planet in a single shot. Therefore the doomsday machine in a single shot.
Only chance the death star would have been if it fired the beam down the maw of the Doomsday machine. If it hits the carbon neutronium hull not doing much damage if any.
I agree with assessment. The desthstar would look like a super snack and eat it.
Well... the Deathstar probably can't LOSE... it has a hyperdrive to escape. Hyper drive is ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE faster than warp.
If the Death Star managed to get a shot inside, I think it would take out the Doomsday Machine. Other than that, it has no chance.