MrGirls makes his debut on a debate panel as a special guest moderated by Primecayes with assists from Destiny Follow Prime Cayes ►STREAM - www.twitch.tv/primecayes ►TWITTER - twitter.com/primecayes
The hypothetical from mrgirl on racial discrimination that causes some benefit and has rational basis for its application seems to challange utilitarian ethics. Or at least provides an interesting starting point to question utilitarian ethics.
@@chris.pbacon440 Yes, because mrgirl is clearly anything but a utilitarian. Not quite sure what he is, I can't speak for him, although I would venture to guess that he is a moral antirealist, most likely an emotivist (according to Britannica: "the view that moral judgments do not function as statements of fact but rather as expressions of the speaker's or writer's feelings").
Still blows my mind that destiny can sit through a stacked out ear-splitting primecayes panel and play league at the same time and have a perfectly relaxing time 🤣
@Yousef mostafa Or when he mentioned doing things on auto pilot multitasking. Sometimes I'll listen to these playing Nioh or working on some photography.
"But she was responding to me!" "Yes, but it's opening statements so let's save our response for after." "I agree, you should've stopped her. That was completely out of line." Mr. Girl won the whole debate right there in my book, lol
Mrgirl: "Black people don't tip aswell so the staff didn't want to serve them because they wouldn't get as many tips" Dylan: "Well that's not racist because that's someones livelyhood, people depend on money for survival" Mrgirl: "So my business is losing revenue as my interview process is taking longer because these black candidates keep wasting my time" Dylan: "well hold on, lets remove the monatary factor from the equation" Talk about double fucking standards my dude.
@@haqoe9857 his comment was that the financial aspect isn't the point, but the reasonableness of it. The question is: is it reasonable for waiters/waitresses to not want to have black people in their section knowing it is statically likely they will tip less
@@haqoe9857 you're delusional then. It's not about racism. It could just be a hooded figure at night. The race aspect adds to the statically likelihood of a crime happening.
@@chrisprilloisebola you're the one who's delusional. You're not even making a relevant point. Dylan was wrong when he said it wasn't racist, it is. It fits the definition, simple.
I would really love to hear anyone on this panel explain why crossing the street when you see a man versus a woman is not sexist, but crossing the street when you see a black person rather than a white person is racist. You can have one or the other, but you can’t have both.
Came to the comments to say exactly this. I assume they'd take some variance of "You can't be racist/sexist/etc. against white men because of power differentials" or a similar tact. Because there is no supporting one of these without supporting the other. Mental gymnastics at play
It may have to do with the power differential that exist. The average man can overpower the average women fairy easily. A follow up question I would have for someone who expressed the opinions you stated above, if they were a woman, would be whether or not they would cross the street if they saw a man of a short and small stature. They may say no in this case because they would not feel that this person has the amount of power difference necessary to worry them enough to cross the street.
They explained it perfectly towards the end of the panel. It's all about feelings. When it comes to minority groups the more "oppressed" the group is the less the previous group matters. We care about women unless race is involved then we don't care about women we care about race, unless identity is involved then we don't care about race we care about identity, unless we're talking about sexuality then we no longer care about identity. We saw it during the panel the first girl says she was okay with crossing the street if there was a man on one side and a woman on the other but as soon as that man became identify as black then it was no longer okay.
@@Grimjr7 Then it is a shitty and unlogical answer though. There will always be prejudice as long as people are different and sometimes prejudice can be a good thing. People that act like they don't have any prejudice towards anyone are lying, or just don't realize it.
I like that Fawns "I'd cross the street if a man was on it"-example is the exact point that MrGirl is making about race, except he considers it prejudiced while she doesn't seem to.
She legit forgot she took upon her safety which was more important than anybody's feelings. Yes, it can be prejudice as hell yet that slipped her mind.
Mr.Girl really surprised me on this panel. He came across as the one of the most level-headed, smoother conversationalists who was able to emphatize with almost every person's views.
Gotta say I’m totally with mrgirl on the opening statement thing. It’s super dumb to try responding to an opening statement in your opening statement, and shows a lack of understanding of the point of opening statements.
In fairness it felt like Destiny torpedoed the opening statements when he was like "does anyone disagree." It seemed like MrGirl was the only one who indicated a counter take, so then it kind of seemed like opening statements would be done and debate would start, at least that's how I took it.
@@metaslavegaming9075 That's a weird passive aggressive attack, I didn't know fawn existed until this panel and didn't take particular note of her during it.
@@Nathan-ok1dq exactly, its like it would have made zero difference if she was there or not, so why be there? The mod probably trades thirst pics for exposure on his stream. These girls are def not qualified to be here and are an embarrassing representation of women. Huffing and hawing and making faces the whole time. It's quite cringey. And white knighting that behavior is equally cringey.
I love how Mr Girl tried to help Dooby but made everything worse, but then the mere utterance of the word "pedo" instantly pitches Mr Girl against the whole panel. It's like Mr Girl is Dooby's Pokémon from that point onward.
I don't think he really wanted to help him with that first one. But on the second one he really was trying to help explain his logic. Awful analogy, but still logically sound even though percentagewise it's of course also racist.
@@sevcon2 It’s “racist” in the same way that it’s sexist for Fawn to cross the street because a man is walking by. If it’s ok for a woman to cross the street because of the statistical threat that a man imposes, then it’s ok for a white person to cross the street because of the statistical threat imposed by black person.
@@sevcon2 I don't think he was trying on the second one. He just got annoyed that everybody agreed for the wrong reasons. The first one seemed like a genuine try at helping, since Mr Girl himself is ok adopting horrible terminology for himself, so he just wanted Dooby to do the same with "racist" and be done with it.
The whole issue was that he was trying to explain Dooby's analogy and most of the panel then took it as "Wait, Mr Girl thinks the exact same thing as Dooby"
How fucking funny is it when every single time mrgirl pulls a very obvious mrgirl move on this panel u can look at destiny and see him laughing. I honestly believe these two will be bffs for life
You could tell MrGirl was more used to regular stage debates and not twitch debates especially when he was already going at prime for his moderating skills from the start (even though prime isn't a good moderator). It was like watching someone who lived in a small town going to the big city for the first time
I love that August/Destiny uploaded a panel where Destiny's total speaking time was probably under 7 minutes, just because of how good a discussion it was.
5:56 *Smiling* "I know, you totally should have stopped her - I understand. I completely agree, that was super out-of-line." I'm so fucking glad MrGirl was in this panel. That shit made me laugh pretty hard, love that guy.
Lol how destiny behaves in this panel is like me enjoying watching my friend argue or something, he participates here and there but he's really enjoying Mr girl doing this and its soooooo wholesome
59:18 had me fkin rolling. This dude is terrified that a black dude is calling out to his dog vs an Asian person because blk ppl grape more. Imagine being a dog lover and someone looks at you like nah... statistically speaking, youre probably a grape lover.
@@wilsonsanabia4259 yea but does the skin color matters tho? Lol like he said "Creepy" so.. idk unless if you think all black people are creepy (which you have to prove lol)
From what I heard, the black dude in the park was trying to lure the lady's dog to him with treats after scolding her for not having the dog on a leash or some shit like that. Is it about skin color in that case? Nope. It's just super creepy.
If you asked 1000 women if they'd feel equally comfortable walking home with a woman they met at a party at night or walking home with a man they met at a party at night and you weren't planning on having sex that night you just wanted to go home, an extreme majority of women would fear walking home at night with the man more for extremely obvious reasons nobody would question. But because the topic has to deal with race all of a sudden everyone is going to act like it's not the same when it's literally the exact same logic and reasoning.
Being black doesn’t mean you’re gonna hurt anyone, being a pedo is literally the wanting to have a sex with someone who can’t consent. The pedo is always In the wrong. Being black is just being black
I've seen Pisco many times now and he seems like a smart guy, but Jesus he's so sanctimonious. Almost every single time he speaks on a debate, he's silent until he gets the chance to interject and impugn someone's character.
are you saying that we shouldn’t stand up for morality for fear of sound sanctimonious? Do you really think society would be better if acted this way? Pisco
@@conradkorbol Are you saying we should strawman every argument to impugn someone's character? Do you really think society would be better if we acted this way? ~Pisco #2
Pisco has this issue where he wants to butt in like he is the only person who can dismantle the consistency of an argument, but he attacks it like a rabid dog in the least likeable way instead of trying to have a reasonable tone. He DEFINITELY grapples things from as if from a legal standpoint, but will subtly flip from legal to moral without indicating much.
I'm confused why she was there, all she did was her opening statement which was just a reiteration of someone she agreed with, then sassy overreactions to things she didn't agree with. It's so cringey and she's clearly out of her depth having discussions with more nuance than what to order from Starbucks. To the streets she belongs.
This REALLY reminds me of Ashton Birdie mouthing "wtf" and making disgusted faces on the panel with Lauren Southern a few days ago. Pure virtue signalling. Also seems like it's mostly young women doing it.
A few days ago, when I was walking past a bus stop (which is supposed to be a no smoking zone although way too many people don't seem to give a fk), there was a person smoking in front of the bus stop. Every time there's someone smoking in my vicinity, I jog/run off outside of the area. This time, the person happened to be black and decided to be offended. No person of any other ethnicity has been offended by my avoidance of them when they're smoking. I feel like there is definitely a skew on racism which assumes certain non-racist acts are racist, just because they could be considered racist. The number of times I've broken into a run to avoid a white/asian smoker wouldn't fall into any statistic. But me running past the black smoker would fall into oh, this person just ran away from a black guy.
Which is how the "BLM" optics go, on the vast majority of these crazy police shootings that go viral. "It's because he was black" No - insert a white or asian guy, and the same officers, and the same outcome would have happened. The parameter of skin color is never the reason. Case in point - had the perp acted normal, didn't wrestle, didn't fight - there wouldn't have been a chance of a shooting period. Victim blaming? Absolutely. There are 1000 factors that go down a rabbit hole of eventual guns firing. It doesn't happen in a vacuum. EVER. Even the accidental shooting, from thinking you are tazering, yet you mistakenly grabbed your real gun. EVEN THE TAZER coming out could have been avoided, had behavior been normal. Regardless, had nothing to do with the victim having black skin. Remember - there are 3X the incidences of crazy cop shootings on video with white and hispanic victims (AND black officers) - but none of those go viral. Because this is a battle for your mind, and specific narrative. Not a conspiracy. Haven't seen ONE viral cop shooting with a white perp (especially combined with a black cop) yet. Why is that, when that is 75% of the occurrences caught on video?
If mrgirl goes on panels more often, I foresee that "toxic empathy" will become a thing because whenever he says "let me save/emphatize you" the next thing out of his mouth is absolutely golden but absolutely destructuous for the person he emphatizes with xD
@@chocolatMouse uh oh, sex is the only thing that can define and fulfil someone according to chocolateMouse who can't fucking spell a basic word, guys. let's hope you're not a native.
The human brain is a pattern recognition machine: it's a survival mechanism. At the end of the day telling people not to consider their own safety and survival because of how someone else may feel just sounds absurd to me.
At the very beginning, it was stated that crossing the road was immoral, even if logical or safer. It is insane to ignore reality just to virtue signal, but on the left it is. Leftism, not even once.
@@calculator91 I have vowed to never travel to the middle east region of the planet - because I have made a risk assessment that a north american white wandering the streets of the middle east DOES have a distinct risk (albeit small) that they are captured and killed. My fear of THEIR racism and religious bigotry. So I'd rather travel the rest of the world in white, black, red, or yellow countries. No brown. Is that racist? What about THEIR racism? Nobody talks about black and brown racism - which completely exists. Especially overseas depending on country. But even here in the 'white" USA .... immigrant brown cab drivers, food delivery, etc - freaking HATE domestic white & black people. They think we are sinful disgusting gratuitous materialistic scum of humankind.
I remember getting scolded by one of my coworkers for getting frustrated that all of my Indian customers always acted like they were above me. Ignoring the fact that in their culture, they literally believe menial labor is my lot in life, and that they do literally look down on me.
Big brain, cross the road toward people, they think you're going to mug them, they cross the road away from you. Unironically kinda works in a way. Walking around poor shithole areas I always make sure I look like I'm a bad text away from stabbing someone. Then noone fucks with me.
@@noobslayer1196 you can only control what you do, not others. That is why being aware of your surroundings is prudent. I have a feeling some of the people on the panel would blame themselves if they were attacked and not the perpetrator. Holding people accountable for their actions is "problematic" if they are in certain categories.
@@nevyns9285 you kinda have to. If you look like a punk your gonna get punked. Just don't look people in the eye. And above all else, don't step on someone's white airforce ones
@@rovingbandofturtles6550 well that goes to my original point, situational awareness. But you can only control YOUR actions. Your examples are things in YOUR control. You can do everything "right" and still be attacked because you aren't in control of the attacker. Situational awareness is about being aware of possible dangers and what is within you control to avoid said dangers.
Probably one of the best Primecayes panels in a while, great to see his redemption. I just hope that MrGirl doesn't enter his downfall in the next arc.
Whenever people bring up the "black sounding name" study they fail to mention that the study also used Traditional jewish names, and found the same results. So, it has nothing to do with racism and maybe more to do with average cultural names. There still bias but its based on cultural norms and not straight racism.
@@TrueGamer22887 imagine you lived in Japan. You apply for a job. Theres loads of Japanese names applying obviously, and a single "mike." Would it be racist to hire the cultural normal names, or is that something else?
@@TrueGamer22887 its exactly the same. Why you're struggling is beyond me. Its either racist or its fkn not. You cant even give aj answer and thats a tell.
@@will2power773 thats not racist. It says nothing of ones racial prejudices, or attitudes generally. In group preferences, which noone in these spaces talk about, are normaly and natural. We all have them, but we wouldnt avoid a typical out group person entering our spaces. Well maybe leftists would lol. I dont like using the term racist either, because leftists have diluted to an extreme degree. I also find the way most of these left leaning people talk about minorities wildly racist. They talk about them as if theyre mentally deficient children that need white knights, pun intended, to protect them.
Being in middle and now upper management for almost a decade now, I just want to comment on the hiring bias. Employers now actually hire minorities more often than caucasian candidates, because most companies are REQUIRED to have a certain percentage of minorities. This is even when the Caucasian workers have better resumes, comparatively. Now, I don't personally care too much about this, but just sharing my experience.
@@kjk607 well eventually they're done hiring (in a perfect world) . But regardless of the resume, talent, or experience, they hire until at LEAST a certain percentage is met.
I love how they are slowly starting to agree with mrgirls points of view, when they actually let him articulate what he means. He is one of the few people that takes the time to think about a topic before immediately defaulting to the popular opinion. I'll say I wish he was a little more eloquent with his word choices lol.
5 sec after she start speaking i'm already triggered. Humans don't have a stupid tendency to divide things into groups. We have the incredible ability to separate things into many kinds of groups. This faculty allowed us to accelerate our understanding of reality, to transmit this knowledge, to pass to the next generation. This allowed us in a relatively short time at the scale of species to master fire, the wheel, and the atom.
@@truenorth4748 and my entire point was your racist ass has to bring color Into everything 🤦 you literally wait for anything you can call racist or some bs and your comment showed that lol all I saw was people talking and here you are trying to make it Into some white vs black bs ... You the racist one
@@truenorth4748 lol you avoided what I said too 🤣🤣🤣🤦 what you said had nothing to do with the videos topic so don't even try to play it off like that and yes trying to bait people into some bs about race trying to act like these white people are not letting this black person talk because he's black when that is 100% bs and you know it is being racist 🤦
What if i don't want any risk of being mugged at all and walk across the street whenever I see someone coming regardless of race and sex? Should I feel compelled to stay where I am to make some random dude less self conscious because he's black?
Say you’re walking down the street and friendly looking black guy with a hoodie and sweat pants is walking towards you and you decide to cross the street to a sus looking white guy with a Normal outfit and you did this because you’re focused on stats and race…but what if you cross the street where the white guy is walking and he might be the danger?? He might be the one to scar?? He might be a killer?? Or Robber??? Because you was focused on stats you’re now a victim of Grape (take away the G)? This is why I think people like that are a little dumb. Because life is full of unexpected stuff?? You never know what can happen? And if you let stats dictate how you view everything you’re gonna live like 💩
@@Correactor That's a bit of a bad faith analysis, come on. I see what you're getting at, but I think the burden of proof would be on you at that point. Basically, the stat is X group of people are 10% violent criminals, so you should cross the street if you see them, and your response is "you don't know if crossing the street would make it 20% likely". That's a pretty weak argument, you have to admit. While statistically you might be correct, there's a possibility it could be true, what you're suggesting sounds pretty absurd. If 25% of some group are violent criminals, not inherently but simply by societal circumstance, crossing the street seems like a great plan.
If you really think that crossing the street to avoid black people statistically increases your safety, and you actively do so on a daily basis, just go with what mrgirl said and admit that you are racist person. Furthermore, why would you treat an individual as a system or statistic? Have you walked past 10 black people in your life? Has every 10th black person you've walked past raped and/or attempted to murder you? I really don't know a lot about stats, and maybe some mathematical model proves that by avoiding interaction with black people you do marginally decrease the percentage chance of a negative outcome, but actively using that as justification to discriminate against every person of color you come across in your life sets a horrible precedent on how we as a society of people should behave.
@@TheGrowlingAraknid The problem with using probability and statistics in this way is that you are turning an abstract idea of maximizing "safety from harm" into hardline prescriptive position. Saying a person ought take whatever measures are necessary to protect themselves from harm regardless of the probability of said harm occuring is an absurd position, and as I alluded to before can lead to negative behaviors and outcomes such as justifying the general avoidence of interactions with people of color because of a sociological statistic.
I was once on the subway and a middle eastern looking dude with a huge suitcase was standing beside me. He suddenly started loudly whispering to himself, it seemed to me like he was praying... And yeah, I left and got off the train ASAP. Another time I was waitng for the subway. It was relatively late at night, so it was just me (male) and a girl waiting on the platform. In the train it was just the two of us and, coincidentally, we got off at the same station after a relatively long trip (like, half the line). She apparently lived near me, because on the street we started walking in the same direction... until she eventually started running away full speed. Did prejudice motivate both me getting out of the subway and this woman running away? Of course, if the whisperer had been white and I had been female, we probably wouldn't have noticed. Was it still reasonable (and not just understandable) to get the hell out of there? No doubt in my mind.
There needs to be a short math quiz for every person who plans to discuss statistics, so much time was wasted here with absolute neanderthal takes on stats.
I've seen a survey which said that 20% of Americans don't understand percentages, and 35% of Americans don't know how to calculate an average. What you're calling "neanderthal" is literally just the average person.
GsuGambits opening statement was pretty on point. It's a lot more complex than just seeing a man, a black person and then crossing the street. There's a lot of tell-tale signs your looking for....what street your on, clothes the person is wearing, how close they are to you, what they're doing.
@@XxRestlessGamerxX yeah but i think chud is more intentional with his shitshows (playing halo when there's 8 people having a spicy debate), whereas prime actually seems to be paying attention to the debate and he's still struggling to moderate his panels.
As a woman who likes online politics, it drives me insane when people like Fawn join a debate panel in order to pose and make faces in front of the camera in a tank top and booty shorts for an hour while occasionally delivering completely vapid, 101-tier arguments that add nothing. I didn't find Katee to have the best takes, but at least she acts like a normal, mostly intelligent person and not a living stereotype.
To be fair if you don’t super care about the topic and there is 7 other people speaking who seem to care more than you do it seems fine to just let them do their thing.
Daaamn did a booby streamer murder your family? Lol you've got mrgirl on this panel and you're taking shots at her for dressing comfortably and giving her opinion. Rough.
I was sitting down the lane in my car having a joint one day and a black lady walked up the lane and saw me(white skinhead) and turned round and walked back the way she'd come. I don't blame her because I live in a small white town in England and there's a lot of racist skinheads here in England. I felt bad about It, not because I felt guilty for myself(I'd done nothing wrong) I agree with what she did, I was no threat because I'm a nice guy getting stoned, but she wasn't to know that and her experience with people who look like me had obviously been negative in the past. For the ladies out there, your safety comes first before someone else's feelings, if you feel uncomfortable just go with gut feeling, better to be safe than sorry.
I gotcha. But a major difference in what you said is that you have control over whether or not you look like a skinhead. Black people don't have control over whether or not they're black.
@UC8wBsL9qDITAANBrOKL6x9A Yeah, agreed. I think culture rather than race is the defining factor here. People have a hard time differentiating the two, since culture makes the impact and race is what sticks on people's minds due to it being the most visually striking. It's understandable though, since they do tend to synergize but at the same time it creates a ton of unnecessary prejudice. Idk man, humans be humans sometimes
The problem with using statistics is of course the percentage of criminals compared to the total population. Which you'd think the one lady would understand, since she claimed she forces herself to not cross the street when a man is walking towards her, and presumably she hasn't been assaulted. Which makes it weird that she would follow that claim with the idea that she probably should have crossed the street. Sure in theory (because we all know the gender sentencing gap is wider than the racial sentencing gap) more men attack women, than women attack men (though that's completely irrelevant to the situation being described, we'd have to look at women attacking other women), but it's such a small percentage of men doing the assaults, especially when we're talking about random acts of violence (of which women are very rarely the targets, most crimes against women are committed by people they know, so she's potentially safer with that random man on the street). Of course, it's similar with with crimes committed by black men. It's mostly young, poor, black men, typically from single-mother homes. Though, since it is such a specific subgroup, one that is already quite small, it does lend some credence to the analogy of "5 out of 10 people committing crimes, versus 5 out of 10 million people committing crimes". Still probably not enough, since many criminals are repeat offenders, so you can't just compare number of crimes versus population, but "better" than trying to lump 50% of the population together.
I think what is far more relevant to this entire discussion is that the way people dress and carry themselves shapes their opinion far more than race. If I saw a black guy that was very well dressed and carried himself well on the left side of the street and saw a dirty white guy with torn clothing on the right, you bet your ass I'm walking by the black guy even though the statistics are less likely for walking by the white guy. And I'm willing to be the majority of Americans would behave the same way as I would unless they were genuinely racist. Statistics as an argument falls apart once you factor in other variables which are far more likely to effect a persons decision whether or not to cross the street.
Pisco: "Are you just pulling this out of your ass?" MrG: "Yes" MrG: "just make stats up" Getting to the heart of what MrG means when he says empathizing with others. Majority of people don't have exact stats to do a cost / benefit analysis, they just go off of intuition and what feels right. Lived experience can be much more powerful than stats ever will be so screaming about statistics won't connect. Looking at how someone emotionally feels and trying to play off that is a different route that is not often extended to people outside of the progressive space. Kudos to MrG for trying something different.
Heyyy man first of all I love MrG (or Mr.Girl). He seems pretty cool and have some pretty good nuances on alot of topics. I just have a few issues with that statement (Lived experience vs Statistics). Now before I go into this more indepth I wanna say one thing, What you said could be used against Dooby's argument as well like for an example: Dooby: " I don't wanna a black person to touch my dog/cat coz statistically black people commit more crimes." So you see, you can easily contradict by saying well an average person wouldn't keep statistics or any sort of statistical information in their mind when they see someone or judge them. And also its ridiculous to even judge that person based on crime statistics when it doesn't have anything to do with the actual scenario (the actual scenario: a black person touching his dog). The fundamental problem with appealing to lived experience rather than empirical data or analysis is that there is no real explanation of who is worth listening to. If lived experience is fundamental, then why not acknowledge and learn from the lived experience of a vitriolic white supremacist when he tells you about his victimisation at the hands of international Jewry? When there are competing and contradictory claims of victimhood then "lived experience" is less than worthless. 'Lived Experiences' in this context simply sounds like *Qualitative Research* data to me. Usually alot of people seems to narrow this down to singular anecdotes in an attempt to strengthen they're position. EXAMPLE: The (one) person's experience of smoking without getting cancer or the (one) unvaccinated person who never got ill. Its obviously right that those experiences (given examples), even if you collected hundreds of them, don't somehow disprove the accumulated collection of quantitative evidence pointing in the other direction. The problem for me is that it took collecting hundreds of cases of anecdotal evidence against smoking to create the accumulated quantitative evidence that it causes cancer. That data didn't simply spring into existence. It was indicated by paying attention to the *lived experiences* of people who smoked and got cancer. Collecting all those experiences and creating that data set is how we determined the evidence for smoking causing cancer existed. One experience is an anecdote and multiple anecdotes shouldn't be misunderstood to be in themselves conclusive. They ***are*** the initial indicators we have for further research though. Dismissing those indicators and how they're categorized can easily prevent you from finding the path to the data that confirms or refutes them. I also think a big problem in studying social issues like this is generalizing things too much. 'Lived Experiences' can be indicative of local racial issues even if the problem statistically disappears when you widen the data set. Being able to make any local problem vanish into the wider dataset doesn't somehow mean the problem doesn't exist, but can be used to dismiss the experiences of people who live in the area with the problem. I think economics had this problem when they evaluate trade deals using the wider US economy and dismissed the localized damage. Which doesn't mean trade deals are bad, but simply that in those narrower contexts there were problems that needed to be addressed. But if you try to make a data-driven argument that systemic racism isn't real to a person of color living in America, and they refuse to consider your data based on their own "lived experience", they are not drawing on a few anecdotes that can be dismissed as low-probability events, but are drawing on years or decades of direct, everyday experience, of both themselves and virtually every other person of color they know. I don't think it's unreasonable in that scenario to dismiss the data out of hand. Similarly, if you tried to make a data-driven argument to me that it doesn't snow in Chicago in the winter, I'd be unlikely to consider your data with a scholarly sense of detachment and diligence. I agree with the general point that individual "lived experiences" shouldn't be used to infer the frequency of similar experiences, but I also don't think that's what most people mean when they say "you shouldn't invalidate someone's lived experience". Invalidating someone's lived experience looks more like "what happened to you doesn't matter because it doesn't happen to many people", not "what happened to you is awful, but if we look at the data it thankfully doesn't happen very often"
@@Wain2007_Kalos I completely agree, I regard GOOD stats as a better descriptor to reality (much more than someone's anecdote). The original point of my comment was to point out that stats are not the end-all-be-all to change everyone's mind. Some people aren't receptive to stats so no matter how much you say "look at the numbers on the sheet", they simply won't listen. If your goal is to get your points to resonate more with this non-receptive group, then appealing to emotion may be a better alternative. I was giving him credit for talking to someone like they're human, not a logic machine that can be changed by inputting new information. 99% of Destiny viewers have a tendency towards this logic machine way of rationalization (source: I made it up), but for other folks you may need to get creative on how you approach the conversation. As a final thought, I don't agree with everything Mr. Girl says, but I respect the hell out of him for trying to bring healthy discourse back rather than immediately throwing labels at people and dismissing people with that label. Building rapport and treating people with empathy are good virtues to have if you want fairly regular people to stop being at each other's throats.
@@LilDebbieProductions oh well then yea I totally agree with you... Appealing to they're emotion and trying to understand they're point of view is a great way to approach people more than say fucking labelling them immediately. I’m coming to find that most people aren’t even capable of having a conversation with someone that doesn’t share there exact opinion long enough to even establish if they even believe that their view of racism or “systemic racism” even aligns with the definition the other person is using. Americas history with race is an incredibly nuanced conversation but how do we even have that discussion without discussing and fleshing out any of those nuances? And I think the media, the big corporations like cnn and Fox News and the Ben shapiros alike, take advantage of the fact that short form media allows them to leave out nuanced where they please to prey on the emotions of viewers. And finally about Mr.Girl, Same I don't agree with him in alot of issues but he seems more interesting and intriguing to me. I think MrGirl is generally well intentioned, but severely lacks any of the social understanding to make his points palpable for an audience. His “crashing into hypocrisy” doesn’t really work when he’s making self deprecating pedo jokes that make viewers immediately dismiss him. The school shooting video is a great example of this. He does have a solid point that the public’s refusal to empathize with violent actors does nothing but help perpetuate violence in society. However, the way he delivers this point just makes it fall completely flat to any normal person. I wouldn’t really blame anyone for reporting a classmate who said he’s thought about killing 37 students after a mass shooting. Even if I understand the intentionally behind that statement. And another example would be: the analogy of "if there were surgeries out there that black people take to become white would it be right to push them to take it." And that's the kind of hypotheticals that doesn't get asked without having some lengthy discussion at first. People are too afraid to platform bad ideology and I get that. But imo the problem was never about platforming bad ideology, the problem was platforming bad ideology irresponsibly. And sometimes platforming views that are so counter to ours are necessary to better understand our own held beliefs. Respect to Destiny for his responsible platforming and willingness to have a productive conversation on such complex topics.. anyways thx for the reply and I hope my comment wasn't too lengthy lol. Good night
This is a really simple opening question to answer. The answer is: it is racist if you are crossing the street *just because* it's a black person, and it's sexist to do so *just because* its a man. However that isn't what normally happens. People cross the street judging by a person's demeanor and presentation more than anything else. If there was a person in a hoodie and jeans, hood up, hands in his front pockets, looking slightly downward, etc, that is often an intimidating presentation for somebody regardless of the person's skin color (although, people might not often find a woman presenting this way intimidating). Now imagine a black dude that looks like Steve Urkel walking down the street. If you cross the street for that guy, there is nothing about his presentation that suggests he's a potential threat, it's literally just because he's black and he's a man. If you would cross for him but wouldn't cross for a white Urkel, that is racist. If you would cross for him but wouldn't cross for a female Urkel, that is sexist. Simple as. When demeanor and presentation are secondary to race and/or sex, that's when it's racist and/or sexist. This isn't difficult to grasp but nobody ever talks about this. Edit: Further in now, and Destiny isn't engaging with Dooby's point about the name study. Destiny responds with "it's a race issue because people are associating black names with ghetto culture", yet when Dooby says "people would have similar prejudice against trailer trash names like Cletus and Billy-Joe", Destiny says "well lower class white people have other names than that". Yeah, and lower class black folk have names other than extremely ghetto ones like Lashonda and Tyqueesha, etc, such as Tyrone, Devonte, Tamara, etc, which probably wouldn't receive so much prejudice, but the study chose the most ghetto-sounding names possible. Like, that's his whole point. Edit: Now nobody's engaging with Dooby's analogy because "black people aren't seat belts" when, in his analogy, black people are other drivers on the road, the rape is a car crash, and crossing the street is a seat belt. What people should do is say "okay, what if you only put on your seatbelt once you notice an Asian driver in the next lane over?" And then they could've had an actual conversation. Because the analogy he presented, race-neutral as it is, implies that you're comparing it to crossing the street for *everybody*, which nobody would call racist to begin with.
Yeah I wish they'd have focused on scenarios like this more because given the right circumstances, people wouldn't cross the street. I know they were mostly engaging in hypotheticals but they should've explored what happens in reality and how much the appearance and behaviour of the person approaching affects the bias they hold. Can't believe nobody touched on it
Most of this argument is stuck in the mud. People repeating the same points over and over while being disingenuous with each other and conveniently ignoring key questions and points made by others.
I'm really shocked no one stated anything from the other side of things. Like me for instance, I'm a big guy, I've had girls see me in elevators and wait for the next one or had them cross the street when walking down the road. I use to get upset by this until I considered the other sides feelings. When I just realized it had nothing to do with me as a person but just that big man scary. I would even retro actively start crossing the street before them as to not cause unneeded stress for them. But then if I keep doing this and every other man does this then does it become offensive to the woman that we cross the street? Do they then get to shout "oh you think i would assume you were going to assault me so you crossed the street?"
I think it's referred as proxy between hindus and Muslims when they say troubled history, where Pakistan being a proxy for Muslims and India being a proxy for Hindus, which is problematic in itself but probably the point being made.
@@bigcuckenergy4661 yeah, you’re right. But it is even more complicated than Hindu-Muslim because in most of the southern parts of India, both groups have coexisted very peacefully since centuries. But I get what he meant and the overall intention, I was just being a bit pedantic haha
MrGirl is a Yojimbo, where the twitch villagers don’t realize they’re dealing with a swordsman until he unsheathe and cleave in one motion leaving jaws on the ground
Crossing the street because of a black male doesnt hurt anyone. Not being sexually attracted to a certain race doesnt hurt anyone. But Not hiring a black person because of their race harms the black community. There is a huge different. You can discriminate aslong as its not practiced on the other person.
Mr girl: says opening statement. Fawn: tries responding. Mr girl: responds back. Primecayes: calls out mr girl for responding. Mr girl: you should’ve called her out. Fawn: as exaggerated as possible* sure…
all of them just dismiss the womans feeling who might get raped and care about black persons getting upset for 5 min, the amount of stress that woman will have in that situation is much more than the man coming close to woman. they didnt even think about that that woman may have been raped before and just wants to make sure the chance of rape is near 0%. such a shameful bias toward the women who are potentially in more stressful situation than black men
51:00 there's a disconnect with Destiny's retort. The study was "Applicants with black sounding names" so to make a class argument you'd have to conduct a study for "Applicants with trailer trash sounding names". You can't dismiss the argument by saying "there are plenty of trailer trash with 'regular' names" without also saying "there are plenty of black people with 'regular' names as well. If they don't have what many consider to be black or trailer trash names, that would automatically exclude them from the study.
Let me use identity politics here...as a black man, I say: If you feel unsafe walking alone and you see a black person, just cross the street...fuck the feelings, we are used to it...and besides, these are Covid times, we want you to stay far from us 😂
@@jellophant9716 I'll still like you... if we meet in a nuetral setting walking the street might as well be pvp to me (I'm black but I kinda don't trust anyone random outside regardless of race unless we meet at a event)
Prejudice is fine when you are in a situation where a heuristic approach is appropriate. It is not fine when it determines how you personally and intimately view an individual(s). In immediate moments we can only use a heuristic analysis which is not always accurate, but it's accurate enough. A women walking alone at night who sees a man, will likely determine it's safer to cross the street. If it's an old man in a walker, she probably wouldn't. If they perceive them to be a gay guy with women friends, she probably wouldn't. The problem is the question itself begs a heuristic answer. Otherwise there are an infinite amount of combinations of a given situation that could change our behavior. Assuming the women perceives nothing more than "I am alone, it's dark, it's a man I do not know" it is absolutely more safe for her to assume to avoid him. Has nothing to do with just "It's a man" and everything to do with all you KNOW is that it's a man. So you can only direct your behavior based on what you KNOW. Same goes for a black guy. If I am in an urban area of high black crime, then the same logic applies. If I am a black guy in some country town with a lot of racists, then the same logic applies. The reason this doesn't apply to a person hiring someone is because it is not necessary or appropriate to take a heuristic approach. You have a resume of the person in front of you. You have a one on one conversation with them. The nature of that relationship necessarily requires more information. You have information and resources in front of you that will allow you to make a more accurate decision, you have the time to do so, so therefore you have the responsibility to do so. The person walking home at night doesn't have enough information, nor has enough time, to make any more of an accurate decision. Nor would putting that responsibility on them be reasonable. If you put an ounce of honest thought in to this, its not that complicated. The only thing tricky about this question is that it's hard to navigate optically. Logically, it is simple.
The first thing to shake my view on negative discrimination was watching prostitutes interviewed on SWU. It’s common for prostitutes (black, white and brown) in LA to say they don’t get into cars with black men. I’m not entirely sure why, but it seems to be a thing in California. I’m not going to stand in judgement of women whose lives are in danger every day and have pooled experiences and come to a conclusion that they believe makes a very dangerous occupation safer. But it obviously means innocent black males will be swerved just because they’re black and male.
MrGirls makes his debut on a debate panel as a special guest moderated by Primecayes with assists from Destiny
Follow Prime Cayes ►STREAM - www.twitch.tv/primecayes ►TWITTER - twitter.com/primecayes
you mean to say mrgirl was assisting destiny, who was clearly outpaced intellectually.
Sir I'm Curious to know your views on "ProfessorBlackTruth"ruclips.net/video/ibrIkV_w95g/видео.html. I would appreciate your reply.
The hypothetical from mrgirl on racial discrimination that causes some benefit and has rational basis for its application seems to challange utilitarian ethics. Or at least provides an interesting starting point to question utilitarian ethics.
@@chris.pbacon440 Yes, because mrgirl is clearly anything but a utilitarian. Not quite sure what he is, I can't speak for him, although I would venture to guess that he is a moral antirealist, most likely an emotivist (according to Britannica: "the view that moral judgments do not function as statements of fact but rather as expressions of the speaker's or writer's feelings").
find mor intelligent people and panels to be around and in, pls. There has to be a frreaking metric, a standard.
Still blows my mind that destiny can sit through a stacked out ear-splitting primecayes panel and play league at the same time and have a perfectly relaxing time 🤣
Some people like having whale noises as background music, some Destinys likes having people yell at him as background music
There's no such thing as a relaxing time playing league. He's dying on the inside, but keeping it together
@@rileynickerson3140 getting yelled at on a pannel calms him down, it helps him relax
@Yousef mostafa Or when he mentioned doing things on auto pilot multitasking. Sometimes I'll listen to these playing Nioh or working on some photography.
I listen to destiny debates to relax.
MrGirl is literally a living meme generator.
He is my favorite pdf file
and everything he jokes on actually has deep thought attached to it.
He is a pretty impressive content generator for destiny either way
Get him and JLP to debate w/ Destiny as moderator.
"I dont care about Isreal" that sounds funny out of context lol.
"But she was responding to me!"
"Yes, but it's opening statements so let's save our response for after."
"I agree, you should've stopped her. That was completely out of line."
Mr. Girl won the whole debate right there in my book, lol
this made me lose my shit lmao
Destiny's little smile at that point lmao
He got that strong nonchalant negging vibe.
Mrgirl: "Black people don't tip aswell so the staff didn't want to serve them because they wouldn't get as many tips"
Dylan: "Well that's not racist because that's someones livelyhood, people depend on money for survival"
Mrgirl: "So my business is losing revenue as my interview process is taking longer because these black candidates keep wasting my time"
Dylan: "well hold on, lets remove the monatary factor from the equation"
Talk about double fucking standards my dude.
They're both racist scenarios, not that difficult.
@@haqoe9857 his comment was that the financial aspect isn't the point, but the reasonableness of it. The question is: is it reasonable for waiters/waitresses to not want to have black people in their section knowing it is statically likely they will tip less
@@chrisprilloisebola reasonableness is irrelevant. Its racist.
@@haqoe9857 you're delusional then. It's not about racism. It could just be a hooded figure at night. The race aspect adds to the statically likelihood of a crime happening.
@@chrisprilloisebola you're the one who's delusional. You're not even making a relevant point. Dylan was wrong when he said it wasn't racist, it is. It fits the definition, simple.
Big thanks to MrGirl and Dooby for making this panel an instant banger of 2022
Yeah dooby started of strong lol
Im just at mintue 29:00 and imo, MrGirl plays devils advocate a bit. But he has pretty normal opinions here
@@marmite_popsicle this wont age well
@@salokin3087 in what way?
also the chat omg I was reading and laughing more than listening
I want to fast forward every time mrgirl talks. He can barely keep up with some pretty softball conversations
The smile on Destinys face when MrGirl says "It's a spectrum" is priceless. Yup, saw that one coming.
@3:45
MrGirl empathizing with you is a debater's worst nightmare
@@0doublezero0 based
@@0doublezero0 mr girl: “lemme empathise with you” you are wrong but lets talk about why. Actual based debate tactic.
Mr girl is here to empathize with you and there's nothing you can do about it
@@ataridc In your walls, endlessly empathizing, and yet you go to tear it down and you cant because its a reverse StoneWall GIGACHAD
I would really love to hear anyone on this panel explain why crossing the street when you see a man versus a woman is not sexist, but crossing the street when you see a black person rather than a white person is racist. You can have one or the other, but you can’t have both.
Came to the comments to say exactly this. I assume they'd take some variance of "You can't be racist/sexist/etc. against white men because of power differentials" or a similar tact. Because there is no supporting one of these without supporting the other.
Mental gymnastics at play
It may have to do with the power differential that exist. The average man can overpower the average women fairy easily. A follow up question I would have for someone who expressed the opinions you stated above, if they were a woman, would be whether or not they would cross the street if they saw a man of a short and small stature. They may say no in this case because they would not feel that this person has the amount of power difference necessary to worry them enough to cross the street.
They explained it perfectly towards the end of the panel. It's all about feelings. When it comes to minority groups the more "oppressed" the group is the less the previous group matters.
We care about women unless race is involved then we don't care about women we care about race, unless identity is involved then we don't care about race we care about identity, unless we're talking about sexuality then we no longer care about identity.
We saw it during the panel the first girl says she was okay with crossing the street if there was a man on one side and a woman on the other but as soon as that man became identify as black then it was no longer okay.
@@Grimjr7 Then it is a shitty and unlogical answer though.
There will always be prejudice as long as people are different and sometimes prejudice can be a good thing. People that act like they don't have any prejudice towards anyone are lying, or just don't realize it.
Both actually. Sexism and racism are not the same thing.
I like that Fawns "I'd cross the street if a man was on it"-example is the exact point that MrGirl is making about race, except he considers it prejudiced while she doesn't seem to.
She legit forgot she took upon her safety which was more important than anybody's feelings. Yes, it can be prejudice as hell yet that slipped her mind.
"Seatbelts aren't black people" - Intellectual discourse at the start of 2022
Haha what's the timestamp for that?
Great talk. You knew it was going to be good when mrgirl went full spectrum in opening statements.
Mr.Girl really surprised me on this panel. He came across as the one of the most level-headed, smoother conversationalists who was able to emphatize with almost every person's views.
I think his understanding was pretty shallow and made the takes look worse lol
Are you drunk or high?
eh... he's way too ready to interrupt anytime pedos are mentioned. last 30 minutes got really cringe because he couldn't just wait his turn to speak.
@@Froward_Thinker good talk Fro Man
@@arbitraryalias9825 He is pretty new to the debate scene, give him some time to grow bro
Say what you like about Mrgirl he's got better constructed arguments than 85% of this panel.
@@angelmartin7310 ak and destiny would be best crossover imo
@@angelmartin7310 really? why?
I think he's the biggest creep in the world, but unfortunately you told no lie.
He is sus but atleast he thinks about everything
Its called having >110 iq
mrgirl is the best addition to the scene in quite some time, pure content
Mr girl is straight up on his sigma grindset telling this mod how to control his panel with the opening statements lmfaooo
Gotta say I’m totally with mrgirl on the opening statement thing. It’s super dumb to try responding to an opening statement in your opening statement, and shows a lack of understanding of the point of opening statements.
She's nothing more than a face of makeup
In fairness it felt like Destiny torpedoed the opening statements when he was like "does anyone disagree." It seemed like MrGirl was the only one who indicated a counter take, so then it kind of seemed like opening statements would be done and debate would start, at least that's how I took it.
@@Nathan-ok1dq what tier sub are you to fawn?
@@metaslavegaming9075 That's a weird passive aggressive attack, I didn't know fawn existed until this panel and didn't take particular note of her during it.
@@Nathan-ok1dq exactly, its like it would have made zero difference if she was there or not, so why be there? The mod probably trades thirst pics for exposure on his stream. These girls are def not qualified to be here and are an embarrassing representation of women. Huffing and hawing and making faces the whole time. It's quite cringey. And white knighting that behavior is equally cringey.
I love how Mr Girl tried to help Dooby but made everything worse, but then the mere utterance of the word "pedo" instantly pitches Mr Girl against the whole panel. It's like Mr Girl is Dooby's Pokémon from that point onward.
I don't think he really wanted to help him with that first one. But on the second one he really was trying to help explain his logic. Awful analogy, but still logically sound even though percentagewise it's of course also racist.
@@sevcon2 It’s “racist” in the same way that it’s sexist for Fawn to cross the street because a man is walking by. If it’s ok for a woman to cross the street because of the statistical threat that a man imposes, then it’s ok for a white person to cross the street because of the statistical threat imposed by black person.
@@sevcon2 I don't think he was trying on the second one. He just got annoyed that everybody agreed for the wrong reasons. The first one seemed like a genuine try at helping, since Mr Girl himself is ok adopting horrible terminology for himself, so he just wanted Dooby to do the same with "racist" and be done with it.
@@Goulash45 its actually sexist against women cuz i see them as weak and harmless squadW
The whole issue was that he was trying to explain Dooby's analogy and most of the panel then took it as "Wait, Mr Girl thinks the exact same thing as Dooby"
1:07:54
MrGirl is actually a genetically enhanced laboratory experiment created by DesTiny to farm content on panels while he plays League
Exploiting MrGirls labor for his youtube content, ultra capitalism arc
I'm still toward the beginning of the video, but I have to say it's refreshing to see Mr girl not take any shit right out of the gate.
Yeah but he hasn’t been called Beyta by JLP either so we don’t know his nature yet. 💙
How fucking funny is it when every single time mrgirl pulls a very obvious mrgirl move on this panel u can look at destiny and see him laughing.
I honestly believe these two will be bffs for life
Least parasocial DGGer.
i hope
@@blankblank2370 that’s mean
No, because Destiny is already my bff.
I hope they become lovers. They deserve each other.
You could tell MrGirl was more used to regular stage debates and not twitch debates especially when he was already going at prime for his moderating skills from the start (even though prime isn't a good moderator). It was like watching someone who lived in a small town going to the big city for the first time
He may have been half trolling prime there.
@@ms6534 You can't really tell with him..
So people from the “big city” are basically worse as doing things?
@@TotalAnarchy27 not worse or better, just different
@@TotalAnarchy27 Just different dude that’s the literal point of the comment. Do you English dude?
I love that August/Destiny uploaded a panel where Destiny's total speaking time was probably under 7 minutes, just because of how good a discussion it was.
Destiny's reaction when MrGirl says the word "spectrum" a few minutes in 😂
5:56
*Smiling*
"I know, you totally should have stopped her - I understand. I completely agree, that was super out-of-line."
I'm so fucking glad MrGirl was in this panel. That shit made me laugh pretty hard, love that guy.
Great job august what a bold new way to watch league streams.
Lol how destiny behaves in this panel is like me enjoying watching my friend argue or something, he participates here and there but he's really enjoying Mr girl doing this and its soooooo wholesome
Pfp checks out 💀
hes just playing league lol
@@Raotev loooool
57:20 MrGirl - “yo dooby is freaking me out you see this shit”
59:18 had me fkin rolling. This dude is terrified that a black dude is calling out to his dog vs an Asian person because blk ppl grape more. Imagine being a dog lover and someone looks at you like nah... statistically speaking, youre probably a grape lover.
Well, they did say the dude was creepy, it might be subjective, but if a creepy dude approaches a woman, she might think the worst
@@wilsonsanabia4259 yea but does the skin color matters tho? Lol like he said "Creepy" so.. idk unless if you think all black people are creepy (which you have to prove lol)
Closet racist
From what I heard, the black dude in the park was trying to lure the lady's dog to him with treats after scolding her for not having the dog on a leash or some shit like that. Is it about skin color in that case? Nope. It's just super creepy.
If you asked 1000 women if they'd feel equally comfortable walking home with a woman they met at a party at night or walking home with a man they met at a party at night and you weren't planning on having sex that night you just wanted to go home, an extreme majority of women would fear walking home at night with the man more for extremely obvious reasons nobody would question.
But because the topic has to deal with race all of a sudden everyone is going to act like it's not the same when it's literally the exact same logic and reasoning.
Being black doesn’t mean you’re gonna hurt anyone, being a pedo is literally the wanting to have a sex with someone who can’t consent. The pedo is always In the wrong. Being black is just being black
I've seen Pisco many times now and he seems like a smart guy, but Jesus he's so sanctimonious. Almost every single time he speaks on a debate, he's silent until he gets the chance to interject and impugn someone's character.
Self-righteousness is a sickness these days
are you saying that we shouldn’t stand up for morality for fear of sound sanctimonious? Do you really think society would be better if acted this way?
Pisco
A whole lot of virtue signaling coming from him too. It's annoying.
@@conradkorbol you know who that sounds like? Christians 😆
@@conradkorbol Are you saying we should strawman every argument to impugn someone's character? Do you really think society would be better if we acted this way? ~Pisco #2
Mr girl, dooby, and pisco are literally the most entertaining people. Great panel
Piss corporation is the funniest guy on the planet
@@onyxrose786 literally
Literally?
Pisco has this issue where he wants to butt in like he is the only person who can dismantle the consistency of an argument, but he attacks it like a rabid dog in the least likeable way instead of trying to have a reasonable tone. He DEFINITELY grapples things from as if from a legal standpoint, but will subtly flip from legal to moral without indicating much.
Bottom row gang
Fawn is such a emotional child she can’t even hide it when others are making their points.
I'm confused why she was there, all she did was her opening statement which was just a reiteration of someone she agreed with, then sassy overreactions to things she didn't agree with. It's so cringey and she's clearly out of her depth having discussions with more nuance than what to order from Starbucks. To the streets she belongs.
This REALLY reminds me of Ashton Birdie mouthing "wtf" and making disgusted faces on the panel with Lauren Southern a few days ago. Pure virtue signalling. Also seems like it's mostly young women doing it.
@@Thematic2177 SEXIST
She's like every negative stereotype about female streamers come to life.
She is hot. So when you are bored you can lol at her instead of listen.
Idk why but this arc is so good yet so bad at the same time. Can’t wait to watch it end, bridge burn, and Destiny to write a manifesto
i know this is gonna happen but its still sad to think about
It's not gonna burn. Screenshot this.
@@sameash3153 Screenshotted. I hope you're right, but I intend to make fun of you if you're wrong.
can someone enlighten me what changed? Was gone for a little longer than 1 year
Anyone wanna make bets on the number of weeks before we get drama?
The MrGirl meme and popularity ark will definitely be an interesting start to the new year.
Arc*; it's not fucking Survival Evolved
@@pattiesonamfgrill chill
Mrgirl :"It's a spectrum" *Destiny begins to grin* lmao
Classic mrgirl
@@AM2K2 3:50
A few days ago, when I was walking past a bus stop (which is supposed to be a no smoking zone although way too many people don't seem to give a fk), there was a person smoking in front of the bus stop. Every time there's someone smoking in my vicinity, I jog/run off outside of the area. This time, the person happened to be black and decided to be offended. No person of any other ethnicity has been offended by my avoidance of them when they're smoking.
I feel like there is definitely a skew on racism which assumes certain non-racist acts are racist, just because they could be considered racist. The number of times I've broken into a run to avoid a white/asian smoker wouldn't fall into any statistic.
But me running past the black smoker would fall into oh, this person just ran away from a black guy.
Which is how the "BLM" optics go, on the vast majority of these crazy police shootings that go viral. "It's because he was black" No - insert a white or asian guy, and the same officers, and the same outcome would have happened. The parameter of skin color is never the reason. Case in point - had the perp acted normal, didn't wrestle, didn't fight - there wouldn't have been a chance of a shooting period. Victim blaming? Absolutely. There are 1000 factors that go down a rabbit hole of eventual guns firing. It doesn't happen in a vacuum. EVER. Even the accidental shooting, from thinking you are tazering, yet you mistakenly grabbed your real gun. EVEN THE TAZER coming out could have been avoided, had behavior been normal. Regardless, had nothing to do with the victim having black skin. Remember - there are 3X the incidences of crazy cop shootings on video with white and hispanic victims (AND black officers) - but none of those go viral. Because this is a battle for your mind, and specific narrative. Not a conspiracy. Haven't seen ONE viral cop shooting with a white perp (especially combined with a black cop) yet. Why is that, when that is 75% of the occurrences caught on video?
If mrgirl goes on panels more often, I foresee that "toxic empathy" will become a thing because whenever he says "let me save/emphatize you" the next thing out of his mouth is absolutely golden but absolutely destructuous for the person he emphatizes with xD
@@coryaw95 no I mean destructuous
@@coryaw95 so what else do u do for fun? Because Im guessing it's certainly not having sex.
@@coryaw95 you grammar police people on your lunchbreak? Yeah,definitely sexless.
@@chocolatMouse what?
@@chocolatMouse uh oh, sex is the only thing that can define and fulfil someone according to chocolateMouse who can't fucking spell a basic word, guys. let's hope you're not a native.
The human brain is a pattern recognition machine: it's a survival mechanism. At the end of the day telling people not to consider their own safety and survival because of how someone else may feel just sounds absurd to me.
At the very beginning, it was stated that crossing the road was immoral, even if logical or safer. It is insane to ignore reality just to virtue signal, but on the left it is. Leftism, not even once.
It is wrong to assume white people are racist whether you notice a pattern or not apparently. The left has gone to far.
This. If groups act differently on average it's pretty dumb to call someone racist for noticing it.
@@calculator91 I have vowed to never travel to the middle east region of the planet - because I have made a risk assessment that a north american white wandering the streets of the middle east DOES have a distinct risk (albeit small) that they are captured and killed. My fear of THEIR racism and religious bigotry. So I'd rather travel the rest of the world in white, black, red, or yellow countries. No brown. Is that racist? What about THEIR racism? Nobody talks about black and brown racism - which completely exists. Especially overseas depending on country. But even here in the 'white" USA .... immigrant brown cab drivers, food delivery, etc - freaking HATE domestic white & black people. They think we are sinful disgusting gratuitous materialistic scum of humankind.
I remember getting scolded by one of my coworkers for getting frustrated that all of my Indian customers always acted like they were above me. Ignoring the fact that in their culture, they literally believe menial labor is my lot in life, and that they do literally look down on me.
Crossing over the road is a sign of weakness, i play mind games and cross over to them to make them think I’m not the wimp i actually am
Big brain, cross the road toward people, they think you're going to mug them, they cross the road away from you.
Unironically kinda works in a way. Walking around poor shithole areas I always make sure I look like I'm a bad text away from stabbing someone. Then noone fucks with me.
Do that in the hood, see what it gets you lol.
@@noobslayer1196 you can only control what you do, not others. That is why being aware of your surroundings is prudent.
I have a feeling some of the people on the panel would blame themselves if they were attacked and not the perpetrator. Holding people accountable for their actions is "problematic" if they are in certain categories.
@@nevyns9285 you kinda have to. If you look like a punk your gonna get punked. Just don't look people in the eye. And above all else, don't step on someone's white airforce ones
@@rovingbandofturtles6550 well that goes to my original point, situational awareness. But you can only control YOUR actions. Your examples are things in YOUR control. You can do everything "right" and still be attacked because you aren't in control of the attacker. Situational awareness is about being aware of possible dangers and what is within you control to avoid said dangers.
Probably one of the best Primecayes panels in a while, great to see his redemption.
I just hope that MrGirl doesn't enter his downfall in the next arc.
It was great because Prime wasn't trying to
chime in constantly with his verbal stumblings and conversational quirks. Hot take, no offense to Prime.
Biolomnivore, I don't know why, but I can't even handle this amount of Prime. I don't think I can watch panels anymore xD
@redxpen At that point (when people gets used to his presence), would people just simply ignore him or would he have managed to changed the discourse?
@redxpen that is incredibly optimistic XD
👀
Whenever people bring up the "black sounding name" study they fail to mention that the study also used Traditional jewish names, and found the same results. So, it has nothing to do with racism and maybe more to do with average cultural names. There still bias but its based on cultural norms and not straight racism.
@@TrueGamer22887 imagine you lived in Japan. You apply for a job. Theres loads of Japanese names applying obviously, and a single "mike." Would it be racist to hire the cultural normal names, or is that something else?
@@TrueGamer22887 its exactly analogous. The history is irrelevant. Is it racism?
@@TrueGamer22887 its exactly the same. Why you're struggling is beyond me. Its either racist or its fkn not. You cant even give aj answer and thats a tell.
@@will2power773 thats not racist. It says nothing of ones racial prejudices, or attitudes generally. In group preferences, which noone in these spaces talk about, are normaly and natural. We all have them, but we wouldnt avoid a typical out group person entering our spaces. Well maybe leftists would lol.
I dont like using the term racist either, because leftists have diluted to an extreme degree. I also find the way most of these left leaning people talk about minorities wildly racist. They talk about them as if theyre mentally deficient children that need white knights, pun intended, to protect them.
Does anyone ever let a person finish what they’re saying? Damn frustrating.
They would If Prime was a decent moderator.
Being in middle and now upper management for almost a decade now, I just want to comment on the hiring bias. Employers now actually hire minorities more often than caucasian candidates, because most companies are REQUIRED to have a certain percentage of minorities. This is even when the Caucasian workers have better resumes, comparatively.
Now, I don't personally care too much about this, but just sharing my experience.
They hire a certain amount of minorities and then move back to hiring Caucasians or JUST minorities?
@@kjk607 well eventually they're done hiring (in a perfect world) . But regardless of the resume, talent, or experience, they hire until at LEAST a certain percentage is met.
I wanted to see how long it took for MrGirl to say something is on a spectrum. Literally the first thing out of his mouth lol
I love how they are slowly starting to agree with mrgirls points of view, when they actually let him articulate what he means. He is one of the few people that takes the time to think about a topic before immediately defaulting to the popular opinion. I'll say I wish he was a little more eloquent with his word choices lol.
Somehow each time he opens a statement it gets more and more edgy.
I love it.
5 sec after she start speaking i'm already triggered. Humans don't have a stupid tendency to divide things into groups. We have the incredible ability to separate things into many kinds of groups. This faculty allowed us to accelerate our understanding of reality, to transmit this knowledge, to pass to the next generation. This allowed us in a relatively short time at the scale of species to master fire, the wheel, and the atom.
It's 100% left over instinct that keeps animals alive right now. If you don't put them in a "box" you might end up in a box.
@@truenorth4748 lol and if they were all white not letting a white person talk you would say nothing lol sit down kiddo 🤐
@@truenorth4748 and my entire point was your racist ass has to bring color Into everything 🤦 you literally wait for anything you can call racist or some bs and your comment showed that lol all I saw was people talking and here you are trying to make it Into some white vs black bs ... You the racist one
@@truenorth4748 lol you avoided what I said too 🤣🤣🤣🤦 what you said had nothing to do with the videos topic so don't even try to play it off like that and yes trying to bait people into some bs about race trying to act like these white people are not letting this black person talk because he's black when that is 100% bs and you know it is being racist 🤦
Katee's over dramatic laughing and burying her face in her hands is really annoying in how smug it makes her seem.
What if i don't want any risk of being mugged at all and walk across the street whenever I see someone coming regardless of race and sex? Should I feel compelled to stay where I am to make some random dude less self conscious because he's black?
thats a personal decision but you are being prejudiced in some way.
@@psykikninja That's a meaningless statement though
Say you’re walking down the street and friendly looking black guy with a hoodie and sweat pants is walking towards you and you decide to cross the street to a sus looking white guy with a Normal outfit and you did this because you’re focused on stats and race…but what if you cross the street where the white guy is walking and he might be the danger??
He might be the one to scar??
He might be a killer?? Or Robber???
Because you was focused on stats you’re now a victim of Grape (take away the G)?
This is why I think people like that are a little dumb.
Because life is full of unexpected stuff??
You never know what can happen?
And if you let stats dictate how you view everything you’re gonna live like 💩
Apparently "black people" have a "Right" to not have their feelings hurt. Rofl
Don't ever put yourself in danger just so you don't hurt somones feeling.
@@Correactor Stats aren't irrational
@@Correactor That's a bit of a bad faith analysis, come on. I see what you're getting at, but I think the burden of proof would be on you at that point.
Basically, the stat is X group of people are 10% violent criminals, so you should cross the street if you see them, and your response is "you don't know if crossing the street would make it 20% likely". That's a pretty weak argument, you have to admit. While statistically you might be correct, there's a possibility it could be true, what you're suggesting sounds pretty absurd.
If 25% of some group are violent criminals, not inherently but simply by societal circumstance, crossing the street seems like a great plan.
If you really think that crossing the street to avoid black people statistically increases your safety, and you actively do so on a daily basis, just go with what mrgirl said and admit that you are racist person. Furthermore, why would you treat an individual as a system or statistic? Have you walked past 10 black people in your life? Has every 10th black person you've walked past raped and/or attempted to murder you?
I really don't know a lot about stats, and maybe some mathematical model proves that by avoiding interaction with black people you do marginally decrease the percentage chance of a negative outcome, but actively using that as justification to discriminate against every person of color you come across in your life sets a horrible precedent on how we as a society of people should behave.
Define the objective danger in the situation
@@TheGrowlingAraknid The problem with using probability and statistics in this way is that you are turning an abstract idea of maximizing "safety from harm" into hardline prescriptive position. Saying a person ought take whatever measures are necessary to protect themselves from harm regardless of the probability of said harm occuring is an absurd position, and as I alluded to before can lead to negative behaviors and outcomes such as justifying the general avoidence of interactions with people of color because of a sociological statistic.
I was once on the subway and a middle eastern looking dude with a huge suitcase was standing beside me. He suddenly started loudly whispering to himself, it seemed to me like he was praying... And yeah, I left and got off the train ASAP.
Another time I was waitng for the subway. It was relatively late at night, so it was just me (male) and a girl waiting on the platform. In the train it was just the two of us and, coincidentally, we got off at the same station after a relatively long trip (like, half the line). She apparently lived near me, because on the street we started walking in the same direction... until she eventually started running away full speed.
Did prejudice motivate both me getting out of the subway and this woman running away? Of course, if the whisperer had been white and I had been female, we probably wouldn't have noticed. Was it still reasonable (and not just understandable) to get the hell out of there? No doubt in my mind.
Did you at least start chasing her so you could tell her you weren't a threat?
@@zaatas Yes. Ripping off my clothes as I was approaching her, ensuring correct aerodynamic conditions to run really fast.
You were just xenophobic and racist. She however is cautious bc of attack of women by men it's totally different.
I stand with Dooby. My man isn't racist or sexist, he is realistic.
I know right
I guess you support "realistic" discriminatory action across board aswell. When people you like are the victims.
lol i mean i give him a a higher than average on the meter but idts.
@@ucheobiekwe2287 no. Anyways, do you follow destiny well? Are you familiar with the "web" that destiny talked about multiple times?
He's both
I appreciate that you are now including the chat in these discussion panels, never realized how much we miss without it.
There needs to be a short math quiz for every person who plans to discuss statistics, so much time was wasted here with absolute neanderthal takes on stats.
I've seen a survey which said that 20% of Americans don't understand percentages, and 35% of Americans don't know how to calculate an average. What you're calling "neanderthal" is literally just the average person.
@@ugandanknuckle505 These people understand neither relative nor absolute numbers.
god damnit, am i starting to really like mrgirl, or at least how he debates...
He's an incoherent edge lord.
@@blankblank2370 edgelord? Yeah, obviously. But incoherent? I think he expresses himself quite clearly.
The arguments here were really strong.
@@blankblank2370 fawn is that you? dont you have makeup tutorials to film or something?
He says some ridiculous shit and his takes aren't correct most of the time, but fuck it, he is entertaining lol
Gotta love Dooby on this one, man spoke his mind and took the hits. Made this 10x interesting
I really liked this Mr.Girl it's a shame he couldn't keep this act up longer.
GsuGambits opening statement was pretty on point. It's a lot more complex than just seeing a man, a black person and then crossing the street. There's a lot of tell-tale signs your looking for....what street your on, clothes the person is wearing, how close they are to you, what they're doing.
you know its gonna be a shitshow when primecayes is the host/ "moderator"
I dunno. Chuds giving him a run for his money
@@XxRestlessGamerxX yeah but i think chud is more intentional with his shitshows (playing halo when there's 8 people having a spicy debate), whereas prime actually seems to be paying attention to the debate and he's still struggling to moderate his panels.
As in there is no moderation, for sure.
As a woman who likes online politics, it drives me insane when people like Fawn join a debate panel in order to pose and make faces in front of the camera in a tank top and booty shorts for an hour while occasionally delivering completely vapid, 101-tier arguments that add nothing. I didn't find Katee to have the best takes, but at least she acts like a normal, mostly intelligent person and not a living stereotype.
Fawn contributed literaly close to zero this debate, I hope the moderator can vet the panelists better. I agree Katie did a much better job
True
To be fair if you don’t super care about the topic and there is 7 other people speaking who seem to care more than you do it seems fine to just let them do their thing.
Daaamn did a booby streamer murder your family? Lol you've got mrgirl on this panel and you're taking shots at her for dressing comfortably and giving her opinion. Rough.
@@christianfox7431 ahahah talk about projection. She’s untouchable because she’s a waman! 🤣🤣🤣
katee and dylan are terminally online... they have a weird view of how normal ppl act or why they make decisions.
I actively put myself in potentially harmful situation in order to not hurt other peoples feelings
I was sitting down the lane in my car having a joint one day and a black lady walked up the lane and saw me(white skinhead) and turned round and walked back the way she'd come.
I don't blame her because I live in a small white town in England and there's a lot of racist skinheads here in England.
I felt bad about It, not because I felt guilty for myself(I'd done nothing wrong) I agree with what she did, I was no threat because I'm a nice guy getting stoned, but she wasn't to know that and her experience with people who look like me had obviously been negative in the past.
For the ladies out there, your safety comes first before someone else's feelings, if you feel uncomfortable just go with gut feeling, better to be safe than sorry.
I gotcha. But a major difference in what you said is that you have control over whether or not you look like a skinhead. Black people don't have control over whether or not they're black.
@@Thunterise
And there it is.
@UC8wBsL9qDITAANBrOKL6x9A Yeah, agreed. I think culture rather than race is the defining factor here. People have a hard time differentiating the two, since culture makes the impact and race is what sticks on people's minds due to it being the most visually striking. It's understandable though, since they do tend to synergize but at the same time it creates a ton of unnecessary prejudice. Idk man, humans be humans sometimes
You said "and there's a lot of racist skinheads here in England" as though there's a type of skinhead that ISN'T racist.
@@the_inquisitive_inquisitor
Here be some research on them. Brah read up.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinhead
MrGirl straight up gets to learn how bad of a moderator Prime is.
It's kinda proving to me a pretty face doesn't guarantee an independent, well thought out idea. Wonder how she got on in the first place.
He really does suck
Mrgirl is hilarious and so is watching Destiny's reaction to the shit he's saying knowing the context of their conversations already.
1:29:26 is the funniest thing said in this two hour comedy fest
Mr. Girl made this debate twice as good
The problem with using statistics is of course the percentage of criminals compared to the total population. Which you'd think the one lady would understand, since she claimed she forces herself to not cross the street when a man is walking towards her, and presumably she hasn't been assaulted. Which makes it weird that she would follow that claim with the idea that she probably should have crossed the street.
Sure in theory (because we all know the gender sentencing gap is wider than the racial sentencing gap) more men attack women, than women attack men (though that's completely irrelevant to the situation being described, we'd have to look at women attacking other women), but it's such a small percentage of men doing the assaults, especially when we're talking about random acts of violence (of which women are very rarely the targets, most crimes against women are committed by people they know, so she's potentially safer with that random man on the street).
Of course, it's similar with with crimes committed by black men. It's mostly young, poor, black men, typically from single-mother homes. Though, since it is such a specific subgroup, one that is already quite small, it does lend some credence to the analogy of "5 out of 10 people committing crimes, versus 5 out of 10 million people committing crimes". Still probably not enough, since many criminals are repeat offenders, so you can't just compare number of crimes versus population, but "better" than trying to lump 50% of the population together.
I think what is far more relevant to this entire discussion is that the way people dress and carry themselves shapes their opinion far more than race. If I saw a black guy that was very well dressed and carried himself well on the left side of the street and saw a dirty white guy with torn clothing on the right, you bet your ass I'm walking by the black guy even though the statistics are less likely for walking by the white guy. And I'm willing to be the majority of Americans would behave the same way as I would unless they were genuinely racist. Statistics as an argument falls apart once you factor in other variables which are far more likely to effect a persons decision whether or not to cross the street.
MrGirl is the most based person to enter the twitch politics scene in a while
Gigachad
Yeeeeeeeesh
Pisco: "Are you just pulling this out of your ass?"
MrG: "Yes"
MrG: "just make stats up"
Getting to the heart of what MrG means when he says empathizing with others. Majority of people don't have exact stats to do a cost / benefit analysis, they just go off of intuition and what feels right. Lived experience can be much more powerful than stats ever will be so screaming about statistics won't connect. Looking at how someone emotionally feels and trying to play off that is a different route that is not often extended to people outside of the progressive space. Kudos to MrG for trying something different.
Heyyy man first of all I love MrG (or Mr.Girl). He seems pretty cool and have some pretty good nuances on alot of topics. I just have a few issues with that statement (Lived experience vs Statistics). Now before I go into this more indepth I wanna say one thing,
What you said could be used against Dooby's argument as well like for an example:
Dooby: " I don't wanna a black person to touch my dog/cat coz statistically black people commit more crimes."
So you see, you can easily contradict by saying well an average person wouldn't keep statistics or any sort of statistical information in their mind when they see someone or judge them.
And also its ridiculous to even judge that person based on crime statistics when it doesn't have anything to do with the actual scenario (the actual scenario: a black person touching his dog).
The fundamental problem with appealing to lived experience rather than empirical data or analysis is that there is no real explanation of who is worth listening to. If lived experience is fundamental, then why not acknowledge and learn from the lived experience of a vitriolic white supremacist when he tells you about his victimisation at the hands of international Jewry? When there are competing and contradictory claims of victimhood then "lived experience" is less than worthless.
'Lived Experiences' in this context simply sounds like *Qualitative Research* data to me.
Usually alot of people seems to narrow this down to singular anecdotes in an attempt to strengthen they're position. EXAMPLE: The (one) person's experience of smoking without getting cancer or the (one) unvaccinated person who never got ill. Its obviously right that those experiences (given examples), even if you collected hundreds of them, don't somehow disprove the accumulated collection of quantitative evidence pointing in the other direction.
The problem for me is that it took collecting hundreds of cases of anecdotal evidence against smoking to create the accumulated quantitative evidence that it causes cancer. That data didn't simply spring into existence. It was indicated by paying attention to the *lived experiences* of people who smoked and got cancer. Collecting all those experiences and creating that data set is how we determined the evidence for smoking causing cancer existed.
One experience is an anecdote and multiple anecdotes shouldn't be misunderstood to be in themselves conclusive. They ***are*** the initial indicators we have for further research though. Dismissing those indicators and how they're categorized can easily prevent you from finding the path to the data that confirms or refutes them.
I also think a big problem in studying social issues like this is generalizing things too much. 'Lived Experiences' can be indicative of local racial issues even if the problem statistically disappears when you widen the data set. Being able to make any local problem vanish into the wider dataset doesn't somehow mean the problem doesn't exist, but can be used to dismiss the experiences of people who live in the area with the problem.
I think economics had this problem when they evaluate trade deals using the wider US economy and dismissed the localized damage. Which doesn't mean trade deals are bad, but simply that in those narrower contexts there were problems that needed to be addressed.
But if you try to make a data-driven argument that systemic racism isn't real to a person of color living in America, and they refuse to consider your data based on their own "lived experience", they are not drawing on a few anecdotes that can be dismissed as low-probability events, but are drawing on years or decades of direct, everyday experience, of both themselves and virtually every other person of color they know. I don't think it's unreasonable in that scenario to dismiss the data out of hand.
Similarly, if you tried to make a data-driven argument to me that it doesn't snow in Chicago in the winter, I'd be unlikely to consider your data with a scholarly sense of detachment and diligence.
I agree with the general point that individual "lived experiences" shouldn't be used to infer the frequency of similar experiences, but I also don't think that's what most people mean when they say "you shouldn't invalidate someone's lived experience". Invalidating someone's lived experience looks more like "what happened to you doesn't matter because it doesn't happen to many people", not "what happened to you is awful, but if we look at the data it thankfully doesn't happen very often"
@@Wain2007_Kalos I completely agree, I regard GOOD stats as a better descriptor to reality (much more than someone's anecdote).
The original point of my comment was to point out that stats are not the end-all-be-all to change everyone's mind. Some people aren't receptive to stats so no matter how much you say "look at the numbers on the sheet", they simply won't listen. If your goal is to get your points to resonate more with this non-receptive group, then appealing to emotion may be a better alternative. I was giving him credit for talking to someone like they're human, not a logic machine that can be changed by inputting new information. 99% of Destiny viewers have a tendency towards this logic machine way of rationalization (source: I made it up), but for other folks you may need to get creative on how you approach the conversation.
As a final thought, I don't agree with everything Mr. Girl says, but I respect the hell out of him for trying to bring healthy discourse back rather than immediately throwing labels at people and dismissing people with that label. Building rapport and treating people with empathy are good virtues to have if you want fairly regular people to stop being at each other's throats.
@@LilDebbieProductions oh well then yea I totally agree with you...
Appealing to they're emotion and trying to understand they're point of view is a great way to approach people more than say fucking labelling them immediately.
I’m coming to find that most people aren’t even capable of having a conversation with someone that doesn’t share there exact opinion long enough to even establish if they even believe that their view of racism or “systemic racism” even aligns with the definition the other person is using. Americas history with race is an incredibly nuanced conversation but how do we even have that discussion without discussing and fleshing out any of those nuances? And I think the media, the big corporations like cnn and Fox News and the Ben shapiros alike, take advantage of the fact that short form media allows them to leave out nuanced where they please to prey on the emotions of viewers.
And finally about Mr.Girl, Same I don't agree with him in alot of issues but he seems more interesting and intriguing to me. I think MrGirl is generally well intentioned, but severely lacks any of the social understanding to make his points palpable for an audience. His “crashing into hypocrisy” doesn’t really work when he’s making self deprecating pedo jokes that make viewers immediately dismiss him. The school shooting video is a great example of this. He does have a solid point that the public’s refusal to empathize with violent actors does nothing but help perpetuate violence in society. However, the way he delivers this point just makes it fall completely flat to any normal person. I wouldn’t really blame anyone for reporting a classmate who said he’s thought about killing 37 students after a mass shooting. Even if I understand the intentionally behind that statement.
And another example would be:
the analogy of "if there were surgeries out there that black people take to become white would it be right to push them to take it." And that's the kind of hypotheticals that doesn't get asked without having some lengthy discussion at first.
People are too afraid to platform bad ideology and I get that. But imo the problem was never about platforming bad ideology, the problem was platforming bad ideology irresponsibly. And sometimes platforming views that are so counter to ours are necessary to better understand our own held beliefs.
Respect to Destiny for his responsible platforming and willingness to have a productive conversation on such complex topics.. anyways thx for the reply and I hope my comment wasn't too lengthy lol. Good night
Bro no cap destiny is such a good moderator. Wish he would moderate alot more.
Who else came back here after finding out that Dooby is black?
I'm only 7 minutes in and already I can tell MrGirl is going to fit in so well.
Destiny is a great moderator lol
Dooby's unending commitment to his frogsona is so commendable
Who else is only here to see Mr Girl stir shit up?
This is a really simple opening question to answer. The answer is: it is racist if you are crossing the street *just because* it's a black person, and it's sexist to do so *just because* its a man. However that isn't what normally happens. People cross the street judging by a person's demeanor and presentation more than anything else. If there was a person in a hoodie and jeans, hood up, hands in his front pockets, looking slightly downward, etc, that is often an intimidating presentation for somebody regardless of the person's skin color (although, people might not often find a woman presenting this way intimidating). Now imagine a black dude that looks like Steve Urkel walking down the street. If you cross the street for that guy, there is nothing about his presentation that suggests he's a potential threat, it's literally just because he's black and he's a man. If you would cross for him but wouldn't cross for a white Urkel, that is racist. If you would cross for him but wouldn't cross for a female Urkel, that is sexist. Simple as. When demeanor and presentation are secondary to race and/or sex, that's when it's racist and/or sexist. This isn't difficult to grasp but nobody ever talks about this.
Edit: Further in now, and Destiny isn't engaging with Dooby's point about the name study. Destiny responds with "it's a race issue because people are associating black names with ghetto culture", yet when Dooby says "people would have similar prejudice against trailer trash names like Cletus and Billy-Joe", Destiny says "well lower class white people have other names than that". Yeah, and lower class black folk have names other than extremely ghetto ones like Lashonda and Tyqueesha, etc, such as Tyrone, Devonte, Tamara, etc, which probably wouldn't receive so much prejudice, but the study chose the most ghetto-sounding names possible. Like, that's his whole point.
Edit: Now nobody's engaging with Dooby's analogy because "black people aren't seat belts" when, in his analogy, black people are other drivers on the road, the rape is a car crash, and crossing the street is a seat belt. What people should do is say "okay, what if you only put on your seatbelt once you notice an Asian driver in the next lane over?" And then they could've had an actual conversation. Because the analogy he presented, race-neutral as it is, implies that you're comparing it to crossing the street for *everybody*, which nobody would call racist to begin with.
Yeah I wish they'd have focused on scenarios like this more because given the right circumstances, people wouldn't cross the street. I know they were mostly engaging in hypotheticals but they should've explored what happens in reality and how much the appearance and behaviour of the person approaching affects the bias they hold. Can't believe nobody touched on it
Most of this argument is stuck in the mud. People repeating the same points over and over while being disingenuous with each other and conveniently ignoring key questions and points made by others.
I'm really shocked no one stated anything from the other side of things. Like me for instance, I'm a big guy, I've had girls see me in elevators and wait for the next one or had them cross the street when walking down the road. I use to get upset by this until I considered the other sides feelings. When I just realized it had nothing to do with me as a person but just that big man scary. I would even retro actively start crossing the street before them as to not cause unneeded stress for them. But then if I keep doing this and every other man does this then does it become offensive to the woman that we cross the street? Do they then get to shout "oh you think i would assume you were going to assault me so you crossed the street?"
Is that Angry Joe on the bottom right?
Its his cousin pissed off Pablo.
Indians and Pakistanis do not have a troubled history spanning over centuries, it has barely been 80 years since we existed as countries lmao
Pakistan Zinabad
@@noco7243 it’s *zindabad
I think it's referred as proxy between hindus and Muslims when they say troubled history, where Pakistan being a proxy for Muslims and India being a proxy for Hindus, which is problematic in itself but probably the point being made.
@@bigcuckenergy4661 yeah, you’re right. But it is even more complicated than Hindu-Muslim because in most of the southern parts of India, both groups have coexisted very peacefully since centuries. But I get what he meant and the overall intention, I was just being a bit pedantic haha
MrGirl is a Yojimbo, where the twitch villagers don’t realize they’re dealing with a swordsman until he unsheathe and cleave in one motion leaving jaws on the ground
A good and fun analogy
@@chriscopley7265 🐸👍
this made me lolz thankyou!
Crossing the street because of a black male doesnt hurt anyone. Not being sexually attracted to a certain race doesnt hurt anyone. But Not hiring a black person because of their race harms the black community. There is a huge different. You can discriminate aslong as its not practiced on the other person.
@@will2power773 Did I say it didnt?
It does bc it creates more prejudice
Keep Pisco away from panels, just derailed right away
Mr.Girl saying with a completely straight face "but the problem is, you are racist" is the fucking hilarious
Mr girl: says opening statement.
Fawn: tries responding.
Mr girl: responds back.
Primecayes: calls out mr girl for responding.
Mr girl: you should’ve called her out.
Fawn: as exaggerated as possible* sure…
I don't think Prime likes mrgirl very much.
He interrupted an opening statement, that's not what your allowed to do even if your being addressed, that's why he got called out
Yeah.. you're just wrong..
The problem was talking after his opening statement. You can 'respond' just only only on your turn for opening statement
@@dylansevitt then it isn’t an opening statement.
Mrgirl sounded super reasonable during this panel. Good on him.
august I'M really grateful that you inluded dgg chat!!
Agreed
all of them just dismiss the womans feeling who might get raped and care about black persons getting upset for 5 min, the amount of stress that woman will have in that situation is much more than the man coming close to woman. they didnt even think about that that woman may have been raped before and just wants to make sure the chance of rape is near 0%. such a shameful bias toward the women who are potentially in more stressful situation than black men
51:00 there's a disconnect with Destiny's retort. The study was "Applicants with black sounding names" so to make a class argument you'd have to conduct a study for "Applicants with trailer trash sounding names".
You can't dismiss the argument by saying "there are plenty of trailer trash with 'regular' names" without also saying "there are plenty of black people with 'regular' names as well. If they don't have what many consider to be black or trailer trash names, that would automatically exclude them from the study.
When MrGirl is trying to help you and saying that you need a PR guy, you've done fucked up.
Let me use identity politics here...as a black man, I say:
If you feel unsafe walking alone and you see a black person, just cross the street...fuck the feelings, we are used to it...and besides, these are Covid times, we want you to stay far from us 😂
well... I giggled.
But I really want black people to like me
@@jellophant9716 I'll still like you... if we meet in a nuetral setting walking the street might as well be pvp to me (I'm black but I kinda don't trust anyone random outside regardless of race unless we meet at a event)
Idk bro, the way you say you're used to it is pretty sad.
Lmao 1st of all comparing "tension" btwn black ppl and the police to Palestinians and Israelis is really disingenuous
Literally but yk how it is
@@yeyuhz7983 ye
why so?
Prejudice is fine when you are in a situation where a heuristic approach is appropriate. It is not fine when it determines how you personally and intimately view an individual(s). In immediate moments we can only use a heuristic analysis which is not always accurate, but it's accurate enough. A women walking alone at night who sees a man, will likely determine it's safer to cross the street. If it's an old man in a walker, she probably wouldn't. If they perceive them to be a gay guy with women friends, she probably wouldn't. The problem is the question itself begs a heuristic answer. Otherwise there are an infinite amount of combinations of a given situation that could change our behavior. Assuming the women perceives nothing more than "I am alone, it's dark, it's a man I do not know" it is absolutely more safe for her to assume to avoid him. Has nothing to do with just "It's a man" and everything to do with all you KNOW is that it's a man. So you can only direct your behavior based on what you KNOW. Same goes for a black guy. If I am in an urban area of high black crime, then the same logic applies. If I am a black guy in some country town with a lot of racists, then the same logic applies. The reason this doesn't apply to a person hiring someone is because it is not necessary or appropriate to take a heuristic approach. You have a resume of the person in front of you. You have a one on one conversation with them. The nature of that relationship necessarily requires more information. You have information and resources in front of you that will allow you to make a more accurate decision, you have the time to do so, so therefore you have the responsibility to do so. The person walking home at night doesn't have enough information, nor has enough time, to make any more of an accurate decision. Nor would putting that responsibility on them be reasonable. If you put an ounce of honest thought in to this, its not that complicated. The only thing tricky about this question is that it's hard to navigate optically. Logically, it is simple.
How do I like this more than once? Lol
MrGirl is beyond compare the most interesting interlocutor I have witnessed on one of these panels in...quite some time. Thank God.
The first thing to shake my view on negative discrimination was watching prostitutes interviewed on SWU. It’s common for prostitutes (black, white and brown) in LA to say they don’t get into cars with black men. I’m not entirely sure why, but it seems to be a thing in California. I’m not going to stand in judgement of women whose lives are in danger every day and have pooled experiences and come to a conclusion that they believe makes a very dangerous occupation safer. But it obviously means innocent black males will be swerved just because they’re black and male.
SWU is such a fucking gem.
1:17:08 mr girl is so f***** funny and then later he says "i'm home... i can breathe now" lmaooooo
Damn Dooby was giving off some major Weirdchamp energy in this one. Mr Girl on the other hand was fucking hilarious even if he is a nutbar.
Right in my feeeeeeeed
mrgirl is so based