A national news channel in the Netherlands (EenVandaag) just used a video from History Matters to explain Europe's relationship with Russia and I think that shows how great this channel is
@@hedgeknight3194 EenVandaag. I said so in a previous comment which got taken down when I provided a link to it, because apparently youtube doesn't allow links...
so nice to see Greeks and Turks discussing in a polite manner and having respect towards each others. This comment section made me very happy. I send my love to our Turkish neighbours
As a Turk, I visited Athens last summer and I LOVED it! The culture, the people, the food, the climate; we have so many similarities. I honestly have nothing but love for y'all and wish for all this (political) hate to stop. We both have enough land to live on. Let's just co-exist. Yamaaaaasss.
@@flamingrubys11 what do you mean they did nothing with it? what they were supposed to do with it, its just a city. plus at one point ottomans were as strong if not stronger than byzantine empire.
@@---1001--- the ottomans were never strong they just sat there more or less threstening countries much weaker than them any war with a major power they usually lost and lost another chunk of land the ottomans were more or less bound to die, that and its karmic retribution for the genocide of constanople
This is really putting the NOPE into Constantinople. Ottomans join the war. Russians: "Nice we'll finally get our hands on Constantinople" Communist Revolutionaries: "Haha nope" Greeks: "Nice we'll finally be able to restore the greatness of Byzantium" British: "Haha nope" British: "Nice we'll occupy Constantinople under the guise of an international zone" Atatürk: "Haha nope"
Fun fact : I lived in both Greece and Turkey for a while and most people had positive things to say about each other despite politicians wanting the world to believe otherwise.
@@imadeyoureadthis1 Speak for yourself, we do all those without getting drunk to keep it halal and sinless. Edit: so many people didn't get the "keep it halal meme", sad lives.
@@zeljkomiloradovic1574 well, rather 10-30 years ago. it's getting harder and harder for the US. Especially closer to China. But yes US still had most control by a lot
@@zeljkomiloradovic1574 well, rather 10-30 years ago. it's getting harder and harder for the US. Especially closer to China. But yes US still had most control by a lot
The Portugese fought with the Allies in WW1 but the map at 0min 52sec has them as neutrals. That said I absolutely love your very entertaining and informative videos....
that is a point, i'd love to see some coverage of portugal in WW1, the fact they got nothing out of it would probably explain them falling to dictatorship in the interwar period.
@@sonicmeerkat It would seem like it, but after such a big and global war, any winner would feel entitled to do as they want. So, with that fear in mind, Portugal went in to have a claim when, after victory, to maintain their colonies, which they did. In that sense, it was a victory. It's funny, the entente member they were most afraid of - of the winners side - was their own ally, the UK. The UK had made an ultimatum to Portugal in 1890 about the land in between Angola and Moçambique, which Portugal wanted to connect both colonies, but Britain had other plans. So they told Portugal, their oldest ally, to withdraw their plans, or else war. That brought shame to Portugal and the kingdom in international eyes, and the portuguese were humiliated. Those types of behaviours made them go to war, more than having Germany colonies right beside.
As a Greek i dont hate the Turkish people no matter what people think. The reason why many people think that Greeks and Turkish hate each other is because of the political situation of the countries. This is dumb. Love you neighbours from Greece!!
I have had very good friendships with all the Greeks I have met so far. The real problem is the fucking states. Anyone who is smart knows this. And ı m turk ;)
Even Canada wasn't willing to send troops to Turkey. When even Britain's loyal child won't send aid, it proves the Turks won the war not only out of determination, but out of everyone else's collective exhaustion and apathy.
Well said. The french stereotypically surrendered immediately to the Turks, and the italians switched sides, giving them plenty of weapons. As for the brits, they were too tired from the war and only supported greece diplomatically.
@@facoulac The 12 islands and the Aegean region were promised to the Italians. However, the British involved the Greeks and offered them the Aegean. That's why the Italians changed sides. The French already did a classic "quick surrender". They also didn't like the British, who took the oil regions, trying to control the straits and the Aegean through the Greeks.
Probably because these kind if questions don't have answers that will produce long enough videos where the content creator can be satisfied with the income. Patreon makes it up for that however so there's no excuse.
The funny thing about the British threat of war over the strait was how when they gave their military the order to give Turkey the ultimatium their own general refused and decided to negotiate. Because outside of the PM and like 2 or 3 other Liberals, no one wanted or supported the war. It actually ended up destroying the Liberal coalition because of how much it pissed off the Tories and Canada also objected to it as well despite being a colony
That's interesting and insightful. From another angle Turkey was probably a better steward of the straits in the long run. Under their control this stategic area was kept out of Russian/Soviet hands. Ie. Turkey has been a much more reliable ally. Please excuse any typos misspellings.
@Larry Hall the Soviets supported the Young Turks, and Kemal had friendly relations with Lenin. It wasn't only until Stalin, that the Soviets had deteriorated relations with Turkey over Kars and Armenia.
@@giansideros Yes, you're correct. It's just that, 1) the Turks were never warm to hard communism and 2) the Turks are historical enemies of Russia. In contrast, as much as I admire Greek history and culture, the Greeks very nearly went communist after WWII. Loyal allies in Korea, loose allies after the fall of the Soviet Union. I'm interested in your take.
@@Xristos888 yeah I mean at least they would have given it to the French. But france can't have nice things, there has to be limit this is the reason why British empire collapsed dreaming too much having an empire hard to control, which will be questioned in coming centuries how the hell did they do it all.
As a Turk I can say, I love Greeks. I met lot of them, everyone is so cool. The world do not want us to be friends. Just imagine, two friend controlling egean and mediterranean sea... Nobody wants that, they want us to fight.
Not like this bri,egean is greek,so i cant say you if you want we to be freinds i want your home, your politicals must stop to say this is mine and this i wil take it in one night,if this stop i believe 100% 2 country's will come near.
@@tammybrace6370 No they didn't. During the time period this video talks about, the city was still named Constantinople. It wasn't till 1923 that the name officially changed to Istanbul
As a greek fan i greatly appreciate you covering a subject not just on greek history, but MODERN greek history. A subject not widely talked about. Thanks!!!
@@kmmmsyr9883 I know right? It's great how available are cuisines not only from countries that greek food was inspired by and inspired, but from all over the world.
The part of this that always interested me was "what if a defeated country refuses (or breaks) the peace treaty?". It is common (in the UK) to think of WWI as Britain V Germany in France, about Belgium and ended with the Versailles treaty. Of course, not the case, and each losing side had it's own treaty. But what if they had refused? Would that mean the war would conti ue or restart? How could a defeated nation refuse anyway, what power would they have left?
I suppose if they refuse, the victor has the justification to simply forcibly annex the loser or replace the existing government with a more amicable one. The loser has no power left, so they can't really stop it.
If you are talking about WW1 cease-fire treaties just check their conditions. They were ridiculously harsh, included almost complete disarmaments and aimed to make future occupations easier. The only reason Turks had the means to fight against new occupations was because officers refused to comply. If people like Fevzi Çakmak and Kazım Karabekir disarmed, we would have a different picture.
The problem with WWI is that the defeated powers were not completely defeated. There was no decisive battle and no occupation until after the Armistice On 11/11/18 the frontiers of Germany and Turkey had not been breached (most of Austria-Hungary too).
@@DISTurbedwaffle918 Except annexing is frowned upon, even if the defeated side refuses to make a peace deal. Otherwise, most of Europe would have since long belonged to a single monarch. It's all those that opposed each other that we still have so many different nations in Europe and no single mega superpower. The looser cannot stop it but others will eventually put a stop to it if a war goes on long enough. And if the victor cannot be stopped by any coalition of opposing nations then the victor will still be stopped by its very own people. For example, the US didn't technically lose the Vietnam war. But because it dragged on for so long, without achieving the goals they set out to achieve, the people of the US started themselves opposing any continued involvement by the US in the Vietnam war. So on paper, the US lost the war when they pulled out.
@Dreams independence or death! Our grand grandfathers gave all their things to GNA(Grand National Assembly), they even gave their bodies. Because we were all know that if we dont fight, they will kill all of us. We saw this in Trabzon, if Topal Osman didnt save the city, Greeks in Northeastern Black Sea would genocide us. Same for Aegan Coasts. Hasan Tahsin (actually it was his father name because he was an agent during Sultan Abdulhamit II's times, in *Yıldız Teşkilatı*. He shoted the Greek commander and started the independence war in Aegan.
Yes. That's the modern world. Go back to the middle ages and you won't hear a peep out of them. The ottoman invasion of Constantinople started the age of discovery. Western Europe dominates because the ottomans cut off the silk road.
@@SrdjV modern turkish Republic is not the ottomans (the former revolted against the latter and put an end to it), no need to use "you" because it's void.
@@etnalutt3492 i'm saying ottomans were turkish but that's not the same country, they were enemies. just like today's iran islamic republic, they are enemy of former modern iran. completely opposite directions
A big reason the Greeks wanted that coast was because a great many Christian greeks also lived on the Ionian Coast. After the Turks pulled of their victory, many greeks fled Anatolia in a panic to the greek mainland, and in fact many greek settlements can be found on the coast, abandoned and untouched since their flight
The Greek governor of Smyrna said this about ethnic Greeks in Anatolia during the Greco Turkish war : It is better for us, if they stay here and get slaughtered by Ataturk, than for them to go to Greece and instill chaos in our country" Basically, Greeks wanted it. But didn't wanna fight for it. They didn't care about the people. They wanted the great powers to magically spoon-feed them the territory
No it is not about the Greeks living there because the majority were Muslims , Greece had that dream of greater Greece by getting all the lands of historical Greek cities and still dreaming about it but they expected that the European powers will fight their fight with them like they did or let be more precise Britain had created Greece itself without the British intervention the Greeks had zero chance of secession from the Ottomans but the Greeks realized later that they are puppets and when their ambitions does not go along with the European powers they will be sacrificed
Τo say the whole truth as it has, regardless of the politically correct politeness constantly being expected from all of us, the Greeks of Asia Minor fled in panic because they were been slaughtered already before the coming of the Greek army in Smyrna (which was the reason why the Greeks had taken the advantage to expand on 1920). The Turkish state is well known for the barbaric treatment of minorities (the Armenian Genocide is another typical example), the same was happening to the Greek population well before the Greek expedition in Asia Minor. Whoever wants to know details, he can read what George Horton or Ernest Hemingway wrote about the genocidal actions of the Kemalists - not to mention what the Greeks have to say about the issue. And of course it wasnt about Kemalism after all - it is about culture.
@@Panos_Stayis Why don't you mention the "devil battalion" of the Greek army which plandered and burned our cities, raped, mutilated and killed our people, not the man on the warfare but the vulnerable woman and children in order to change the demographics of the cities to later claim that the Greek population was higher there? I have nothing against the fact Greece has its own independence, as the Turkish nation we fought for it too. What so funny here is, you declared independence over the Ottomans and then declared war against the Ottomans acting as the puppets of the countries which did not even think you were important enough to give the Constantinapole to, then you massacred our people and when we defend ourselves doesn't matter as the Ottoman Empire or as Kemalists you are calling us barbarians? What about what the Turkish people have to say about this issue? You can not play the victim over a war that you started and massacred our people to get even more land, as you said "the advantage to expand on 1920". How did you take the advantage? By asking nicely?
The history of the region is rather tragic considering that many people in Turkey are descendants of Turkified Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Iranian, and Baltic Slavs. Original Turks are Northeast Asian and genetically and culturally similar to Mongolians.
I love how Joining the central power you get what you want and Joining the Allies there is a 99.999% that the British and french are going to ignore Literally any gains you want after helping them fight the largest war in history at the time.
@@christianweibrecht6555 if they were neutral all throughout they likely wouldn't have changed much other then the ottomans survive longer. Neither side would have had much an appetite for more war after WW1 ended and both Greece/turkey likely could have resisted whichever side won in that universe
@@UnholyWrath3277 The invasion of middle east would happen anyway but I think Ottomans can handle it as long as it is fighting a single state or front.
German Empire betrayed Ottomans about their promises in Caucasus region by attacking them with Russian uniforms after an agreement done with Georgians. Sad how this happened before the was even over.
Tsar Nicholas bouncing along in the background; the British claiming Mare Nostrum, and all the other humor cleverly thrown in. This channel is gold! May it prosper evermore.
Turkey: we won't accept your deal UK: oh really? well we have something to say about that, right guys? France and Italy: *makes peace sign before fading away* UK: uhhh hehe guys... Turkey: you said something about fighting us again?
Realistically they could've invaded the entirety of Turkiye but consequences would have been unbearable as the population isn't likely to stop rebelling.
@Rapstick Perdelemiyor zaten ama kamu oyunu görmezden gelip istilaya devam edebilirdi ve büyük ihtimalle başarılı da olurdu ama dediğim gibi imparatorluğu yıkılmaya kadar götürebilirdi bunun masrafları.
At that time Brits were dominant, they could have fought but giving it to turkey was reasonable to prevent USSR, also imagine holding against turkey, Greece and Russia ? It wasn't Brits were weak but God favoured truks
The people of Greece are very kind in actuality, our politicians might have manipulated the people to believe otherwise but we were neighbors and we will always be!
The sad thing is they had the chance to create lasting peace in Europe but greed and desire for vengeance squandered the negotiations and led to Europe’s eventual collapsing into the US and USSR’s chessboard
Video Idea: How did citizens of Eastern Bloc countries view, or rather were presented, electoral politics in the West, if at all. Would there be any coverage beforehand of Western elections? Or would the media just say one morning somebody just won an election in the UK or America?
iirc, the standard line was that the elections were all decided by the large money interests and the common people had little to no power over the elections
Oof. While the Soviets were a lot more overt with their repression, don't think for a second that Western democracies didn't simply "present" the politics of the Eastern Bloc. It was the Cold War after all
@@CDexie I'm well aware the West did present Eastern bloc politics in to fit a narrative. For example most people today don't know that East Germany did in fact have multiple parties. But I'm just curious on how things were on the otherside of the Iron Curtain.
@@jaidengabriel1675 It was referendum where people voted 90% to join Russia. In 1954 Crimea was given to Ukraine by Hruschov, who was Ukranian by the way. How do u call US invasion of Iraq with lies about weapons of mass destruction? How do u call US invasion of Yugoslavia in 1999 with false genocide narrative? Putin is doing exactly what US has been doing for decades now.
@@silencemeviolateme6076 So between 1810 to 1826 they lost the majority of their colonies in the Americas from Argentina up to Mexico. They still had some territories such as the Philippines, Cuba, etc., but they lost their largest, most important colonies about a hundred years before the other Europeans lost their most important colonies.
@@potzilla4471 they started colonizing about a hundred years earlier too. The 1500s was dominated by the Spanish. The English empire in the east was built on the Portuguese empire.
Slight correction, Treaty of Lausanne didnt finalized Republic of Turkey's borders, it was the referandum of Antioch/Hatay that finalized the borders since they chose to join Turkey.
Also the Treaty of Moscow. They agreed the border around what is now Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia. 16 March 1921. The man sent for the signing was Halil Pasha, an uncle of Enver Pasha who Kemal actually respected, unlike his opinions of Enver.
@@kasadam85 actually you're semi correct and I'm wrong lmao The treaty of Kars is what you're referring to which is where they actually made agreement on the three borders. The Moscow treaty was more for weapons and some assistance from the Soviets and general recognition of each others existence.
As an Ancient Historian who is awful with contextualising ancient with modern history. I love watching stuff like this, because sometimes I'm too wrapped up in ancient politics to see what recent influence it has, thank you!
@Theo Chi With all due respect sir. The greek philosophies and sciences were inherited by the islamic cultures at the dawn of the medieval age, with most of europe, including greece itself, denoting them as pagan scriptures of little importance. It's short sighted to describe any culture as "lower in mentality" or uncultured. People have a lot to learn from eachother and if we think like this, then we cannot do that
1. It was called Constantinople at that time. 2. Under this very weird analogy, Turkey kidnapped someone’s ex and forcibly married them, before renaming them. You can imagine why the wounded party might not want to recognize the renaming.
It's the Entente, they didn't care Also I like to think because Austria-Hungary occupied it,It left the Serbians alone with the option to decide Montenegro's future and that was annexation,just my idea though
From what I know about early Yugoslavia it wasn't as much of an annexation as much as a (mostly) willing union. Montenegrin kings and people at the time did believe that their future is to at one point unite with Serbia. These ideas didn't take off until it was discovered that the King of Montenegro was willing to make a separate peace with the central powers, thereby betraying the Entente. After the country was liberated the pro Serbian politicians took the initiative and agreed to become a part of Yugoslavia. There were still those loyal to the king and and independent Montenegro, and they revolted, but with no success. Today you will mostly see it characterised as a forceful occupation and annexation , but it would be wrong to say that nobody in Montenegro was actually on board with it at the time. Montenegro remained mostly pro Yugoslavia/Pro Serbia for the rest of the 20th century, untill Đukanović took power. But then again, we'll never know whether or not Serbia would have respected Montenegro's wishes had it not decided to join. The truth is that, even if it wasn't immediate, Montenegro would most likely become a part of Yugoslavia no matter what.
That is quite a simple answer. Montenegro is a country populated by serbs. Montenegrians are serbs. They just lived under a different entity. After ww1 they themselves voted to join the kingdom of Serbia because they are serbs. They couldnt do it before because Austro Hungarian Empire was against Serbian people uniting because there were serbs in Bosnia which Austro Hungaria anexed. Also that is why Austro Hungarian Empire made Albania out of nothing after balkan wars that happened few years before WW1 so it doesnt give Kingdom of Serbia acess to sea even though majority of people there were serbs and Serbia and Montenegro together fought of Otomans from the land. Long story short, after WW1 there was no longer Austro Hungarian Empire to to block serbs from Montenegro to unite with rest of the serbs so they voted themselves and joined Kingdom of Serbia. Simple.
@@vasilije94 Albania Serbs ? Where did you get your history books from ? If anything Montenegro is more Albania then anything. Especially in the south they all speak Albanian.
@@erdemcrpc7115 yanlış olabilir de, slang konuşunca anadili İngilizce olanlar da böyle kullanıyo, ve de meme zaten, I didn't hear no ... veya I didn't do no ...
By the way it was Russian bolsheviks who provided Mustafa Kemal with nessecary arms and money to fight the Greeks and reconquer Greek occupied part of Anatolia. This victory made British military withdraw from Constantinople and led to establishment of modern Turkey.
I actually live in Sèvres and the building used for the Treaty is now an art museum. Not very useful information, but I thought it was a fun coincidence
Greece: We are descendants of Rome and Ancient Greece! Britain: (does it mean I'll have to give them back all Ancient Greek treasures I have in the British Museum?) Britain: No, you are not
if they are the descendants of rome, and rome looted so much of the british resources and never gave them back, then it's only fair the british keep those ancient treasures. even steven :)
@@xELITExKILLAx Well it depends. For me, a Turk whose paternal ancestors are from that region, it might not have been so nice and we would have been killed or exiled.
@@ludogatari9558 I am (little) part Rûm but that side of the family fled to Sicily. It was foolish all around, it happened all over Europe (this is something sometimes Turks misunderstand when these things are pointed out, or because of the ignorance of the accuser, as if only them are accused of being guilty of this). We could have strived for understanding and having brothers in our neighbor's garden and neighbors in ours teaching us language and culture. But what happened is that nationalism was at its most ferocious state. But maybe I am deluded, and the sad reality is minorities are exploited by a foreign aggressor to take your land - see what is happening in Ukraine right now. And those ethnic cleansing on all sides, in 1900s, lived in the terror that any shown mercy could be used against them.
Fourth reason: By now Constantinople/Istanbul after nearly 500 years was pridominal turkish in population and Greek rule over the city would have been next to impossibel against Turkish resistance.
25% of the Turkish population lives in thrace. In modern populations that would mean Greece with 10 million people would need to occupy and control 20 million
@@Creem16 I really thank people like you, not only you guys make thousands or millions of people to deny "Armenian" or "Greek" genocide but also encourage them to be sceptical about many things in their lives. Average Eastern European when they lose the war: "You genocide" When they win the war: "Haha die"
@@kebabseverim3364 it's never aceptable to mass kill civilians, you don't need to be European to understand this. for example my country Brazil killed most of the male population of Paraguay during the war with some accounts saying 70% of the male population. this was wrong, even if they were soldiers (which I doubt) we should have porsued a different strategy to allow the soldiers to surrender without fight.
Even if Greece had somehow managed to capture and hold Constantinople (or parts of Asia Minor for that matter), it is highly unlikely that we would have been able to hold them without the rest of the Ottoman Empire's partition (according to the Treaty of Sevres) in effect. But even if the partition was successful and lasted for the entire Interwar period (1918 - 1939), it is not wild to assume that Turkey would have joined the Axis in WW2 and sought to recapture these lands.
Well Greece Captured some parts of Asia Minor where a big part of the population was Greek. When Ataturk came into power the Greek army was defeated and the Greek people were violently kicked out and the biggest city Smyrna was burned down.
"Greek majority in asia" was a series of documents with infactual statistics created to not breach america's conditions for joining the war. If you think that a city that was in the rule of an empire for hundreds of years, an empire that turkified its settlements via controlled migrations, managed to have a minority for its main populace you would be wrong.
@@TheBooban its more like, they werent relevant to claim such a large and strategic city. Even if nationalists in ankara was toppled by greek army, the british would have kept constantinople for themselves.
@@anilkarakaya9343 you missed the part where the Turks fought them and kicked them out of the areas they did hold. If they held that, the British would have handed over Constantinople as the empire declined.
@@TheBooban I exactly said the opposite in my previous comment. If turks had lost, british would have kept the city and turkish straits for themselves. They would still keep it or most likely later decide to create a puppet turkish mandate based on constantinople so that turks wouldnt become communists. Greece not having constantinople is more about greece being insignificant, not with turkish victory.
Situations like these happened often in modern Greek history. Because of its unique maritime geography Greece was part of the British world system (the Royal Navy controlled the Mediterranean and Greek shipping depended on British goodwill) but its interests as a country only sometimes overlapped with those of the British. You can still see it today; most of Europe worries about Russia, but Greece worries about Turkey.
@@machineboot6748 im not even gonna disscuss anything with a person who takes wikipedia as a main source. I'm really surprised how you guys talking like this while you have legit war crimes in the past against turks.
@@machineboot6748 thank you for answering decently instead of yelling and swearing but if you be more objective about wikipedia they seem to be biased time to time, idk if its about the uselessness of moderation or something, but the facts get softened or manipulated oftenly, i'd show you proof but my mind is fucked up about russian invasion i dont even have any shitty wiki pages on my mind :(
Yes past cannot be changed but since you learn from the past you have to take the necessary actions. For Greece these actions are extreme military protection and common military agreements with the Big Forces
Here's hoping this channel lives long enough into the future to one day cover the fustercluck and potential global conflict going on now between Ukraine and Russia. I still hope things will resolve themselves peacefully, and that my future children won't have to write a history paper on WWIII.
It'll either end with NATO/the US pressuring Ukraine into giving up Crimea because nobody wants a war now since nuclear weapons are something that exists.... or it'll escalate quickly into WW3. So uhh.... bit of a swing in possibilites there.
There was a collision of negative coincidences. 1) Greece was given a German King in 1832, which made us neutral for the time but made us an enemy of Britain after German unification. In the same time, Austria Prussia and Germany were always allies of Turkey, so that made us vulnerable on the double. 2) Britain actually offered Constantinople to Greece if we joined them against the Turks in Gallipoli, but our German King said no, the British lost, and when they finally won afterwards by themselves they owed us no favour. 3) Greek politicians realised the king's destructive role and sent him into exile in order to fight with Britain, but in the meantime Turks had time to exterminate Armenians and Pontian Greeks, so they wouldn't have to fight in two fronts later. 4) when we actually invaded Anatolia, the Russian Revolution had just happened, which meant Greece lost its best supporter and ally, and Turkey automatically lost its worst enemy and won a friend, because Greece fought against the Bolsheviks. 5) Russia apart from being the best and natural ally of Greece as the biggest orthodox country in the world, was also the only reason why the West supported Greece over Turkey. Greece was favoured by the British so as not to collaborate with Russia and give Russia access to the Mediterranean. Since Greece was hostile to the USSR and Turkey was friendly, the West starting flattering Turkey so that they don't become communist, which was the danger now. So Turkey in 1922 won with Russian and French guns. 6) the King out of spite slandered the politicians who threw him out of power as responsible for leading the country into war, and when we should be fighting the hardest, the royal politicians were saying we're fighting for no reason and the King will end the war as soon as he's brought back. The Greeks were stupid enough to vote for him, and Greece in 1920 had a German King again, which sent Britain straight to the arms of Kemal Atatürk. After coming into power he knew he should continue the war, because it was matter of survival, but being reluctant to work with Britain and Germans being always pro Turkish he lost any allies. So it was no wonder the front collapsed in 1922 because Turkey had everyone on its side and Greece was alone. 7) Europe may have supported Greece to put pressure on Turkey and Russia, but never wanted to see a Roman empire again, which questioned their self proclaimed status of heirs of ancient Greek and Roman heritage. The Vatican firmly opposed Constantinople turning Greek, to the point of favouring it remaining Muslim than Orthodox. 8) Kemal Atatürk was a very clever and strong leader, who took advantage of the favourable circumstances and the chaotic policy of Greece and put the nail on the coffin of any Greek empire. Turks after the fall of the sultan didn't have a vacuum of power and had immediately a new leader. 9) In conclusion, the treasonous role of the Greek King and royal party, the naivete and fatigue of the Greek people, the reluctance of the West to see a Greek Orthodox empire, good Turkish strategy and leadership, and most importantly the Bolshevik Revolution, made it impossible for thr Greeks to realise their Big Idea of freeing Aya Sofya. Because man has his plans but God has His own.
@@philippmaqs8799 the Orthodox church has martyrs both from Roman emperors, Arab khalifs, Turkish sultans and Catholic Popes. In the orthodox calendar we commemorate many monks who were butchered or tortured to death by Catholic soldiers for not converting. During ww2 the Vatican supported a Croat general who massacred thousands of Serb orthodox and is now a saint of the Catholic church. The German army starved the whole city of Athens to death but the Vatican promised food only if we converted, and we suffered famine under the Italian army while the Turks sent us supplies!!! But you won't hear that in the Pope's Christmas speech (my turn to laugh)
There are some mistakes. 1) Britain offered Cyprus, not Constantinople, during the Gallipoli campaign. There were literally no plans to include Constantinople in Greece's borders. The only talks to take Constantinople away from the Turks was through the secret talks with Imperial Russia during negotiations regarding the partition of the Ottoman Empire during the ongoing WWI. Even when Russia fell into civil war, Britain and the other Entente allies were reluctant to handle the City to the Greeks. Part of this was the fear of British officials about Muslim insurrection (the Ottoman Sultan was still the Caliph [the religious leader of the Muslim world]) in British-occupied countries with Muslim population (e.g. British Raj). By discarding the Ottoman Sultan and Caliph would meant that the British would have to deal with the ire of their British Muslim subjects in their colonial empire. Another was the Entente's distaste and hate for the German-Danish-Greek royal family as stated in the video. No way they would allow a German king to become Emperor of the Greeks/Romans in the throne of Constantinople. 2) Even when the German Greek King (Constantine) returned during the Greco-Turkish war, the British public didn't support Kemal directly, only its allies, France and Italy, through their guns. That doesn't mean they fully supported Greece neither, with the exception of the moral support of David Lloyd George. Until the end of the Greco-Turkish war, the British public was staunchly neutral to the conflict. The British public even opposed David Lloyd George's plan to counter the Turks at the Chanak Crisis, leaving the British troops to evacuate from Anatolia and Constantinople shortly thereafter. The Treaty of Lausanne followed afterwards, and the everything else is history.
"Who's German king had no right to claim the inheritance of Rome" They were ok with that for 1000 (or something) years and then they dicided it was a problem?
The Turkish resolve to keep fighting after losing the war was always remarkable for me. Kemal's military tactics as a general in the field fighting 2 world powers (britain and france) the italians, the greeks and winning when anyone else would have given up against such overwhelming ods is even more amazing. I am glad Kemal knew when to stop, he didnt push for the empire's original borders and limited himself to the Anatolian peninsula and Istanbul leaving room for compromise and peace, had he been over ambitious as most people would have he might have lost the war as britain and france would have surely committed to all out war if their colonies in the levant were threatened in adition to those in anatolia.
@@andy1992uk Ruslar bize yardım etmeseydi bir süre sonra kendileri kaybedecekti Gazi Mustafa Kemal Ruslarla konuşma yaptı ve onlara düşmanımızın aynı olduğunu söyledi
Modern Greeks embrace both their Ancient Hellenic legacy and their Byzantine Christian heritage by ethnicity. Being the predominant ethnic group in the region of Constantinople and Ionia already for a millennium before the Roman Empire emerged, Greek people never vanished from their native lands. Hence it was only natural for the Eastern part to retain its pre-existing Hellenic identity and background. The testimony of the Byzantine Empire is evident to this very day across the region, in every single Byzantine Church and monument, but first and foremost in the majestic Cathedral of “Hagia Sophia”, still standing for 1500 years now..
"Greece was a reluctant ally, which wasn't at best terms with the Entente", I mean can you blame the Germanophille Greek monarchists? The Central Powers demanded for Greece's neutrality, while the Entente urged them to fight in Gallipoli in a suicidal campaign against the well-prepared Turks, with no promise or concession guaranteed at that time, only wanting more soldiers as carcasses into the front. It was only when Venizelos was dismissed from office when the British made the offer to give Cyprus, but at that point the "National Schism" took a grim hold to Greece's modern politics. In WWI, who would trust who? The Germans who pushed forward for Greece's neutrality, or the Allies who wanted carcasses for the Allies to step on to achieve their goals, with the other nations (e.g. Italy or the Arab Revolt) not getting their fulfilled promises in the aftermath of the war?
@@petr79 It also makes someone think who violated neutrality? Because the Allies respected Belgium's neutrality, and responded with an ultimatum to Germany to withdraw. However, the Entente violated Greece's neutrality by establishing their presence in Thessaloniki.
Greece and Italy were both screwed in WW1 and were the true losers of the allied side after the peace treaty. Greece only got eastern Thrace , Ionia (Smyrna region) was going to be an independant state and a referendum was supposed to take place to choose unification to Greece or independence. Noone knows how this would have gone since muslims were majority if the population , christian and jews were only majority in the city of Smyrna. So Greece got basically only promises. Italians got screwed big time too they basically got nothing at all.
Keep in mind Bulgaria was also a member of the central powers and at that time still controlled territory with large Greek populations. It's hard to trust an alliance when one of your national rivals is a member of one of them.
well-prepared Turks - LOL. They were come from a constant war of 200 years and lost EVERYTHING. They had nothing and gave there last blood. But if it makes you sleep better, yes they were wel prepared. 😂
@@jupiterbirlesikgezegenleri9884 True, but it is a bit hard when the powers support your enemy, or withdraw the help they promised at the worst possibe time. If it was a straight fight, history consistently shows Greece can handle being outnumbered :)
@@xpictos777 lets not forget that one of the main reasons greek was independent at all was because of British support, just because we didnt fight an all out war for you doesnt mean we betrayed you, as someone else said if we gave it to you, the turks would have just invaded and crushed you.
As an outsider looking in, Greece, Istanbul and the Turkish East Thrace region are all Greek in my eyes, perhaps not politically but rather ethnically and culturally. Although perhaps in the last century or so Istanbul has become more cosmopolitan and multi-ethnic with more Turks moving in looking for more economical possibilities. Please native Turks and Greeks don't slaughter me in the comments, I'm a bit ignorant in the history between Greece-Turkey, I do know however I wouldn't mind finding me girl in either Greece or Turkey, women there are fuckin' gorgeous ❤❤❤🔥🔥🔥
There are some missing points. Until 1936, bosphours was not in the control of Turkey. After Montreaux agreement Turkey had acquired to control of Bosphorus.
🇬🇷: "We're fighting for our independence, Europe can you help?" 🇬🇧🇫🇷🇩🇪: "Sure now have this king, he's German" *100 years later* 🇬🇷: "Hi I see you're partitioning the Ottoman empire, please can we have our ancestral lands?" 🇬🇧🇫🇷: "No cos your king's German" 🇬🇷: "bruh"
From this point, you can understand the position of modern Greece in the eyes of its neighboring countries. It has always been a poor puppet state controlled by the Great Powers, working accordingly to their wishes and interests, since its independence from the Turks, with no guarantee of becoming a middle power whatsoever. I wish for the day that karma would hit the other Western powers, deprive them of their liberties and assets, and be enslaved to the interests of the other superpowers, with the history of their country being shifted to a memory of the past.
Both Greece and the last Ottoman State actually wanted to build strong a Helleno-Turkic state to stop the dispute of Constantinople (or Konstantinyye) but that idea was also dumped by allies (France and British).
well this wasn't British fault the Turk simply will not give up. After ww1 with almost 1 million dead and an economy in drain it was best to give what the Turks wanted.
Sometimes it's weird looking at us all, the history nerds, and seeing how we all come from different parts of the world and give our opinion about a specific region in a specific time (or just like to know its history).
what Values ? throwing people to the lions to eat them ? or burning people alive for choosing their religion ? or impaling people alive ? or the church enslaving all the citizens ? what VALUES ?
@@Knowledge-jk3ro I like democracy, philosophy, medical lead, art conception and sculpture shaved. I think you are confused them with middle eastern people..
@@SedaYudumAlkan Middle eastern people were living in paradise on earth when the Europeans were discussing if women were human or animal. you lack proper education . you are brainwashed by the western propaganda. i dont blame you because after WW1 all the schools books were written by anit middle eastern enemies. ALL what you see in the west we had 1000 years ago , it was the mongols that destroyed us. the crusaders took freedom and art and education from our land and carried them back into europe. it was the middle east that made europe what you like today.
@@SedaYudumAlkan the middle eastern people are the teachers .. without them all europe would be in dark age . they took it all from Muslim Civilization after the crusaders came and took knowledge back to europe. including ART, science , Justice , freedom for people , and Women rights. Actually the graduation black dress in universities originated in Muslim Andalus in Spain.
Ottomans did that achievement. They repopulated the city and made it rich again, and copy pasted byzantine organization and spreaded it by expanded borders
@@anilkarakaya9343 Lmao what a joke, please tell us of ONE city the Ottomans founded? They made some ugly ass mosques that have no symmetry and converted everything else they could find, a nation that just lacks in the arts and crafts and had to employ Christian subjects to not go afloat.
@@TimelordDelta Well actually you are right, as a Turk (and also living in İstanbul), the Ottoman's didn't found any noticeable cities, and didn't built any significant infrastucture or anything other than mosques and unnecessary palaces. The Ottomans were good at capturing cities thanks to their unmatched military might in the first half of the empire, but not so good at maintaining them unlike their predecessors Romans and Byzantines. Most of historical buildings in Anatolia was actually built by the Seljuks. Also you are also right about the craftsman. Even in the early republic of Turkey, most of artisans, craftsman and skilled workforce were jewish and Balkan minorities (mostly Greek) which unfortulately forced to leave the country in 6 September 1955 pogrom. The only point you were wrong was the symetry, which some of the mosques (like Selimiye) actually quite symetrical and got top level mosque architecture. Greetings from Turkey
A greek neighbour told me once why it is called Istanbul. Because in the old times the Greek said: Is tan Polli. Which could mean in greek: " to the city".
How is Turkey not losing Turkish majority cities injustice? Would you rather have a giant genocide from Greece to force the Turks out of the city just like they did in the Balkan parts of Greece?
I have an old Rand McNally wall map of Asia that shows the area from Constantinople to the Dardanelles labeled "Zone of the Straits" and now I finally know why! Thanks for another great video.
It's insane that the idea who deserved to be the successor and inheritor of Rome was still a though in the mind of Europe over 450 years after the fall of the Roman empire with the fall of Constantinople. (the byzantine empire got that name so Germans could call themselves the Holy Roman Empire, they were still the Roman Empire despite the name change.)
In 1992 I was in Athens. I saw a large hand-painted slogan in Greek on the side of a major church: "Constantinople is the capital of Greece, not Athens..."
@@perspecktivity I was in Athens when my Greek friend told me that there was an area of Athens officially called Apollonia (the coast of Apollo.) It is now called Polonia, which is the Greek name for Poland. I wonder why!
Too busy bullying the Hungarians, Irish and lastly the Germans. It’s almost like that plan backfired and destroyed their empire reducing them to an American client state.
A national news channel in the Netherlands (EenVandaag) just used a video from History Matters to explain Europe's relationship with Russia and I think that shows how great this channel is
which?
@@hedgeknight3194 EenVandaag. I said so in a previous comment which got taken down when I provided a link to it, because apparently youtube doesn't allow links...
send us a link
@@hedgeknight3194 "Why didn't the USSR Annex Finland (Short Animated Documentary)"
This channel rocks
Russia: "we are the third Rome"
World: "okay prove it"
Russia: *violently dissolves into civil war*
"yep, it checks out - sorry for doubting"
Well, that proves it.
Most underrated comment
Lol, hopefully in order to change the powers that be.
BRUH SAVAGE
so nice to see Greeks and Turks discussing in a polite manner and having respect towards each others. This comment section made me very happy. I send my love to our Turkish neighbours
Thank you, malaka ❤
Raising rakı/ouzo to you, cheers neighbour!
Love to see such a comment. Hope you would have a woderfull day. As a Turkish I love all our Greek neighbours!
Kalimera bro
Yes.
Now, about Cyprus...
As a Turk, I visited Athens last summer and I LOVED it! The culture, the people, the food, the climate; we have so many similarities. I honestly have nothing but love for y'all and wish for all this (political) hate to stop. We both have enough land to live on. Let's just co-exist. Yamaaaaasss.
Yamas!!
turkey lives on whats basically roman built lsnds yall just sat on it for a few hundred years and did nothing with it i say greece should have it
@@flamingrubys11 what do you mean they did nothing with it? what they were supposed to do with it, its just a city. plus at one point ottomans were as strong if not stronger than byzantine empire.
@@---1001--- the ottomans were never strong they just sat there more or less threstening countries much weaker than them any war with a major power they usually lost and lost another chunk of land the ottomans were more or less bound to die, that and its karmic retribution for the genocide of constanople
@@flamingrubys11keep dreaming
This is really putting the NOPE into Constantinople.
Ottomans join the war. Russians: "Nice we'll finally get our hands on Constantinople"
Communist Revolutionaries: "Haha nope"
Greeks: "Nice we'll finally be able to restore the greatness of Byzantium"
British: "Haha nope"
British: "Nice we'll occupy Constantinople under the guise of an international zone"
Atatürk: "Haha nope"
To be honest the Russians didn't really need a Communist revolution to fail in gaining Constantinople.
ataturk was british puppet. Dont make hero out of it
@@jora5483 yeah sure. keep deceiving yourseIf.
@@jora5483 yeah sure i am actually queen victoria
Kemal was a monster and he is burned in hell , he is where he deserves and I am happy for him.🙂🔥🇹🇷
Fun fact : I lived in both Greece and Turkey for a while and most people had positive things to say about each other despite politicians wanting the world to believe otherwise.
We both just want to get drunk, eat and have parties. There is no reason to hate each other.
@@imadeyoureadthis1 Speak for yourself, we do all those without getting drunk to keep it halal and sinless.
Edit: so many people didn't get the "keep it halal meme", sad lives.
@@kasadam85 if you don't want to drink, don't drink Mitch "Muscle Man" Sorenstein.
@@kasadam85 hastır lan kim içmiyor. 20 sene akp ile geçti diye içki içmiyor mu olduk. Paşalar gibi içiyoruz keyfimize bakıyoruz.
@@kasadam85 speak for your self turkey is not a country forces your shitty religions rules we do what ever we want, you do you
International zone, which meant “British in all but name”. If that isn’t 1850-1939 British foreign policy in a nutshell.
Same as USA novadays.
he who controls the sea
@@zeljkomiloradovic1574 well, rather 10-30 years ago. it's getting harder and harder for the US. Especially closer to China. But yes US still had most control by a lot
@@zeljkomiloradovic1574 well, rather 10-30 years ago. it's getting harder and harder for the US. Especially closer to China. But yes US still had most control by a lot
Still is today in Cyprus
The Portugese fought with the Allies in WW1 but the map at 0min 52sec has them as neutrals. That said I absolutely love your very entertaining and informative videos....
that is a point, i'd love to see some coverage of portugal in WW1, the fact they got nothing out of it would probably explain them falling to dictatorship in the interwar period.
seriously, they did? wow I never knew that
@@sonicmeerkatThey did though. They had the right to keep their colonies
@@miguel151420 I mean keeping what you already own isn't exactly a victory in an offensive war
@@sonicmeerkat It would seem like it, but after such a big and global war, any winner would feel entitled to do as they want. So, with that fear in mind, Portugal went in to have a claim when, after victory, to maintain their colonies, which they did. In that sense, it was a victory. It's funny, the entente member they were most afraid of - of the winners side - was their own ally, the UK. The UK had made an ultimatum to Portugal in 1890 about the land in between Angola and Moçambique, which Portugal wanted to connect both colonies, but Britain had other plans. So they told Portugal, their oldest ally, to withdraw their plans, or else war. That brought shame to Portugal and the kingdom in international eyes, and the portuguese were humiliated. Those types of behaviours made them go to war, more than having Germany colonies right beside.
As a Greek I feel the need to say: "As a Greek" every time I start writing a sentence about something on the internet.
As a Turk, I sincerely understand this habit of yours.
yeah because greeks have very interesting ideas
@@mehmetkaraata3432 haha
@Return of the Paddy sup Irish
As an Italian, same thing.
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CONSTANTINOPLE AND ANATOLIA ARE GREEEEEEEEEEEK
On the topic of Greece, I would really like to know how the first modern Olympic games of 1896 in Greece were organized and how this idea came to be
That is a great idea
As a Greek I must say that actually is a funny story 😂
You should ask the germans for that one,they established "modern" Greece
A similar topic would be if there were orher attempts. Like, for over a thousand years, nobody had tried before 1896?
@@milandimovski5279 no Germans didn't establish modern Greece, Greece liberate and establish her self allow in fact Germany is enemy of Greece
As a Greek i dont hate the Turkish people no matter what people think. The reason why many people think that Greeks and Turkish hate each other is because of the political situation of the countries. This is dumb. Love you neighbours from Greece!!
Love you from Turkey dude.
Nice
I have had very good friendships with all the Greeks I have met so far. The real problem is the fucking states. Anyone who is smart knows this. And ı m turk ;)
same here man
as I am a turkish love you bro
Even Canada wasn't willing to send troops to Turkey. When even Britain's loyal child won't send aid, it proves the Turks won the war not only out of determination, but out of everyone else's collective exhaustion and apathy.
Well said. The french stereotypically surrendered immediately to the Turks, and the italians switched sides, giving them plenty of weapons. As for the brits, they were too tired from the war and only supported greece diplomatically.
@@facoulac The 12 islands and the Aegean region were promised to the Italians. However, the British involved the Greeks and offered them the Aegean. That's why the Italians changed sides.
The French already did a classic "quick surrender". They also didn't like the British, who took the oil regions, trying to control the straits and the Aegean through the Greeks.
Can I just say how much I love this channel? Seriously why dont other channels feel like covering these types of questions
Probably because these kind if questions don't have answers that will produce long enough videos where the content creator can be satisfied with the income. Patreon makes it up for that however so there's no excuse.
Plus most of the answers always leads to one nation anyway
'Questions you'd feel dumb for asking in a college history course but totally want to know the answer to'
Agree
Propably because you cant make a good lets play out of it
The funny thing about the British threat of war over the strait was how when they gave their military the order to give Turkey the ultimatium their own general refused and decided to negotiate. Because outside of the PM and like 2 or 3 other Liberals, no one wanted or supported the war. It actually ended up destroying the Liberal coalition because of how much it pissed off the Tories and Canada also objected to it as well despite being a colony
That's interesting and insightful. From another angle Turkey was probably a better steward of the straits in the long run. Under their control this stategic area was kept out of Russian/Soviet hands. Ie. Turkey has been a much more reliable ally.
Please excuse any typos misspellings.
@@larryhall2805 no worries, you fine
…Canada also objected as well despite it being a *dominion*
FTFY, as Canada had already been made a dominion by 1867.
@Larry Hall the Soviets supported the Young Turks, and Kemal had friendly relations with Lenin. It wasn't only until Stalin, that the Soviets had deteriorated relations with Turkey over Kars and Armenia.
@@giansideros Yes, you're correct. It's just that, 1) the Turks were never warm to hard communism and 2) the Turks are historical enemies of Russia.
In contrast, as much as I admire Greek history and culture, the Greeks very nearly went communist after WWII. Loyal allies in Korea, loose allies after the fall of the Soviet Union.
I'm interested in your take.
Having Gibraltar, the Suez, and Constantinople as the British sounds like a Hoi4 achievement
Edit: lots of Turkiye bois lol.
Mediterranean soup
@@jamesburdian56 Tea*
That just makes them tooo powerful.
@@glocksmith226 true they would be to op
@@Xristos888 yeah I mean at least they would have given it to the French. But france can't have nice things, there has to be limit this is the reason why British empire collapsed dreaming too much having an empire hard to control, which will be questioned in coming centuries how the hell did they do it all.
This should be part of a long series called: "How the British and French Messed Up The Entire Middle East In a Way That's Still Affecting Us Today."
Greece could be part of the middle east ....
@@Siomn779nil Not really. Although most of it was until 1829.
You are still middle eastern
@@CIHANOZEL-ij6vd You can keep thinking that. It will never be true.
Anatolia isn't the middle east, it's the near east.
As a Turk I can say, I love Greeks. I met lot of them, everyone is so cool. The world do not want us to be friends. Just imagine, two friend controlling egean and mediterranean sea... Nobody wants that, they want us to fight.
bVHJSBVV aynen
Höööşşşt!
Πόσο δίκιο έχεις!!!!
Probably because turks have like 60 % incestry of Greeks
Not like this bri,egean is greek,so i cant say you if you want we to be freinds i want your home, your politicals must stop to say this is mine and this i wil take it in one night,if this stop i believe 100% 2 country's will come near.
Your educational videos are of immense value to everyone. Hope you keep continuing the goodwork .
Hyperbole!
They miss spelled the title its instanbul
@@tammybrace6370 No they didn't. During the time period this video talks about, the city was still named Constantinople. It wasn't till 1923 that the name officially changed to Istanbul
@@DigiDoesStuff it was a joke low since turks and greeks get ma dover the name
As a greek fan i greatly appreciate you covering a subject not just on greek history, but MODERN greek history. A subject not widely talked about. Thanks!!!
@@fusionreactor7179 Balkan person spotted
@@fusionreactor7179 Oh come on it's not THAT bad. Our beaches are pretty nice plus the people are just wonderful.
@@ΚωνσταντίνοςΠετρίδης-π2κ Plus, it's a country you can easily find Turkish food, a plus in my book
@@kmmmsyr9883 Yeah. I've not eaten much Turkish food other than kebabs but their pretty good. Also I really like the Fez!
@@kmmmsyr9883 I know right? It's great how available are cuisines not only from countries that greek food was inspired by and inspired, but from all over the world.
Great videos!
"Resign and let your successor deal with it"
Ah yes, I'll tell my kids to get me a Master's
Steal their thesis when it's time for them to get their degree. Ez.
I mean, it's a policy that does work on farms. It's why farmers have so many kids: loyal future labor!
Asian parents be like
The part of this that always interested me was "what if a defeated country refuses (or breaks) the peace treaty?". It is common (in the UK) to think of WWI as Britain V Germany in France, about Belgium and ended with the Versailles treaty. Of course, not the case, and each losing side had it's own treaty. But what if they had refused? Would that mean the war would conti ue or restart? How could a defeated nation refuse anyway, what power would they have left?
You see the trick we use in Turkey is to make a new government and deny any involvement with the one who lost the war, that way we never lose
I suppose if they refuse, the victor has the justification to simply forcibly annex the loser or replace the existing government with a more amicable one. The loser has no power left, so they can't really stop it.
If you are talking about WW1 cease-fire treaties just check their conditions. They were ridiculously harsh, included almost complete disarmaments and aimed to make future occupations easier. The only reason Turks had the means to fight against new occupations was because officers refused to comply. If people like Fevzi Çakmak and Kazım Karabekir disarmed, we would have a different picture.
The problem with WWI is that the defeated powers were not completely defeated. There was no decisive battle and no occupation until after the Armistice On 11/11/18 the frontiers of Germany and Turkey had not been breached (most of Austria-Hungary too).
@@DISTurbedwaffle918 Except annexing is frowned upon, even if the defeated side refuses to make a peace deal.
Otherwise, most of Europe would have since long belonged to a single monarch. It's all those that opposed each other that we still have so many different nations in Europe and no single mega superpower.
The looser cannot stop it but others will eventually put a stop to it if a war goes on long enough. And if the victor cannot be stopped by any coalition of opposing nations then the victor will still be stopped by its very own people.
For example, the US didn't technically lose the Vietnam war. But because it dragged on for so long, without achieving the goals they set out to achieve, the people of the US started themselves opposing any continued involvement by the US in the Vietnam war. So on paper, the US lost the war when they pulled out.
I wonder what Boogerly Woogely's thoughts are about this whole situation.
Which situation?
@@BoogilyWoogily holy shi* it's the man in..... Viscous boogilywoogily jelly?
@@BoogilyWoogily The Russo-Ukranian war that started today
@Don’t read my profile picture Don't worry, I won't.
@@euivets2892 Thank God for it, too. Russia will soon retake Constantinople and restore Christianity.
I have made it my mission to watch every video of this channel as a subscriber. Just love it and cannot express it enough.
"Something which they had coveted forever" *shows Soon in the big bang*
This channel's humour has reached a new high and I love it to no end
I fear its their next target 🎯
*Allies:* give land
*Turks:* no
*Allies:* but you lost the war
*Turks:* and?
average chad balkanite vs virgin western power
Ok and
@Dreams independence or death! Our grand grandfathers gave all their things to GNA(Grand National Assembly), they even gave their bodies. Because we were all know that if we dont fight, they will kill all of us. We saw this in Trabzon, if Topal Osman didnt save the city, Greeks in Northeastern Black Sea would genocide us. Same for Aegan Coasts. Hasan Tahsin (actually it was his father name because he was an agent during Sultan Abdulhamit II's times, in *Yıldız Teşkilatı*. He shoted the Greek commander and started the independence war in Aegan.
I mean, the war that happened in Gallipoli at least during WW1 really shows how powerful they're
@@turplexx233 Nah, you would have been probably renaimed to Osmanopoulos.
I swear, 99% of the questions on this channel can be answered with "Cuz Britain and France".
Yes. That's the modern world. Go back to the middle ages and you won't hear a peep out of them. The ottoman invasion of Constantinople started the age of discovery. Western Europe dominates because the ottomans cut off the silk road.
thank you for a short AND engaging AND informative video im subbing immediately
I like how the video is so short simply answering the question like "because greece had no juice to do so"
@@SrdjV yeah, but you got your ass kicked by a bunch of irregulars hmmmm
@@SrdjV modern turkish Republic is not the ottomans (the former revolted against the latter and put an end to it), no need to use "you" because it's void.
It belongs to Albania, not Greece
@@NoChrReq Are you saying, Iranians are not Persians?
@@etnalutt3492 i'm saying ottomans were turkish but that's not the same country, they were enemies. just like today's iran islamic republic, they are enemy of former modern iran. completely opposite directions
Out for 3 hours and seen by over 115,000 people. Thank you for teaching history on a grand scale. -aspiring history teacher.
A big reason the Greeks wanted that coast was because a great many Christian greeks also lived on the Ionian Coast. After the Turks pulled of their victory, many greeks fled Anatolia in a panic to the greek mainland, and in fact many greek settlements can be found on the coast, abandoned and untouched since their flight
The Greek governor of Smyrna said this about ethnic Greeks in Anatolia during the Greco Turkish war : It is better for us, if they stay here and get slaughtered by Ataturk, than for them to go to Greece and instill chaos in our country"
Basically, Greeks wanted it. But didn't wanna fight for it. They didn't care about the people. They wanted the great powers to magically spoon-feed them the territory
No it is not about the Greeks living there because the majority were Muslims , Greece had that dream of greater Greece by getting all the lands of historical Greek cities and still dreaming about it but they expected that the European powers will fight their fight with them like they did or let be more precise Britain had created Greece itself without the British intervention the Greeks had zero chance of secession from the Ottomans but the Greeks realized later that they are puppets and when their ambitions does not go along with the European powers they will be sacrificed
Τo say the whole truth as it has, regardless of the politically correct politeness constantly being expected from all of us, the Greeks of Asia Minor fled in panic because they were been slaughtered already before the coming of the Greek army in Smyrna (which was the reason why the Greeks had taken the advantage to expand on 1920). The Turkish state is well known for the barbaric treatment of minorities (the Armenian Genocide is another typical example), the same was happening to the Greek population well before the Greek expedition in Asia Minor. Whoever wants to know details, he can read what George Horton or Ernest Hemingway wrote about the genocidal actions of the Kemalists - not to mention what the Greeks have to say about the issue. And of course it wasnt about Kemalism after all - it is about culture.
@@Panos_Stayis Why don't you mention the "devil battalion" of the Greek army which plandered and burned our cities, raped, mutilated and killed our people, not the man on the warfare but the vulnerable woman and children in order to change the demographics of the cities to later claim that the Greek population was higher there? I have nothing against the fact Greece has its own independence, as the Turkish nation we fought for it too. What so funny here is, you declared independence over the Ottomans and then declared war against the Ottomans acting as the puppets of the countries which did not even think you were important enough to give the Constantinapole to, then you massacred our people and when we defend ourselves doesn't matter as the Ottoman Empire or as Kemalists you are calling us barbarians? What about what the Turkish people have to say about this issue? You can not play the victim over a war that you started and massacred our people to get even more land, as you said "the advantage to expand on 1920". How did you take the advantage? By asking nicely?
The history of the region is rather tragic considering that many people in Turkey are descendants of Turkified Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Iranian, and Baltic Slavs. Original Turks are Northeast Asian and genetically and culturally similar to Mongolians.
I love how Joining the central power you get what you want and Joining the Allies there is a 99.999% that the British and french are going to ignore Literally any gains you want after helping them fight the largest war in history at the time.
Hard to imagine what would happen to Greece and the Ottomans if they remained neutral
@@christianweibrecht6555 if they were neutral all throughout they likely wouldn't have changed much other then the ottomans survive longer. Neither side would have had much an appetite for more war after WW1 ended and both Greece/turkey likely could have resisted whichever side won in that universe
@@UnholyWrath3277 The invasion of middle east would happen anyway but I think Ottomans can handle it as long as it is fighting a single state or front.
German Empire betrayed Ottomans about their promises in Caucasus region by attacking them with Russian uniforms after an agreement done with Georgians. Sad how this happened before the was even over.
@@kasadam85 such an outlandish claim will be dismissed until you provide citation
Tsar Nicholas bouncing along in the background; the British claiming Mare Nostrum, and all the other humor cleverly thrown in.
This channel is gold! May it prosper evermore.
Turkey: we won't accept your deal
UK: oh really? well we have something to say about that, right guys?
France and Italy: *makes peace sign before fading away*
UK: uhhh hehe guys...
Turkey: you said something about fighting us again?
Realistically they could've invaded the entirety of Turkiye but consequences would have been unbearable as the population isn't likely to stop rebelling.
@Rapstick Perdelemiyor zaten ama kamu oyunu görmezden gelip istilaya devam edebilirdi ve büyük ihtimalle başarılı da olurdu ama dediğim gibi imparatorluğu yıkılmaya kadar götürebilirdi bunun masrafları.
At that time Brits were dominant, they could have fought but giving it to turkey was reasonable to prevent USSR, also imagine holding against turkey, Greece and Russia ? It wasn't Brits were weak but God favoured truks
The people of Greece are very kind in actuality, our politicians might have manipulated the people to believe otherwise but we were neighbors and we will always be!
A ROMAN FART CAN NOT BE kind
REGULAR PEOPLE WORLDWIDE ARE KIND ,
SURE WE MUST LOVE REGULAR GREEK & TURKS WITH THEIR EXCELLENT FOODS,BREAKFASTS !!!!!
Simplistic, fast, easily digestible and entertaining/interesting. This channel really does it all
This channel is to Millenials what Schoolhouse Rock was to Gen X.
Moral of the story: the members of the Entente were so greedy to get as much land as possible that they ended up getting a lot less.
The bankers were the entente
The sad thing is they had the chance to create lasting peace in Europe but greed and desire for vengeance squandered the negotiations and led to Europe’s eventual collapsing into the US and USSR’s chessboard
@@Nostripe361 and now Europe has a babysitter.
Not like the central powers were much better, look at all the territory Germany took in there treaty with Russia.
@@Nostripe361 lol, bitch about it, Europoors.
If only James bissonette was there, he could’ve achieved it
James has solved much more difficult problems than this. Really should be up for a Nobel Peace prize or something.
James Bissonette, one of the most hidden and richest person of all time
Doubt it
James bissonette could have bankrolled the resurrection of the roman empire
Well then thankfully he wasn't there
I watched this again, and I found this quite informative! I also found the "background" wordplay at 0:25 quite funny!
Thanks for making this!
Video Idea: How did citizens of Eastern Bloc countries view, or rather were presented, electoral politics in the West, if at all.
Would there be any coverage beforehand of Western elections? Or would the media just say one morning somebody just won an election in the UK or America?
iirc, the standard line was that the elections were all decided by the large money interests and the common people had little to no power over the elections
@@strategossable1366 sounds surprisingly accurate, at least for the us
@@strategossable1366 Yeah . . . that's totally, completely a li- er, um, and exag- hmm, well, kind of too accurate for comfort really.
Oof. While the Soviets were a lot more overt with their repression, don't think for a second that Western democracies didn't simply "present" the politics of the Eastern Bloc. It was the Cold War after all
@@CDexie
I'm well aware the West did present Eastern bloc politics in to fit a narrative. For example most people today don't know that East Germany did in fact have multiple parties.
But I'm just curious on how things were on the otherside of the Iron Curtain.
Because of completely unrelated events can you do an episode on the 2014 Crimea War
🤣🤣
It was not war, Russians took their land back and people in Crimea didnt mind.
@@worlddd7777 what else should he call it, "The 2014 occupation of Crimea?"
@@worlddd7777 Be quiet, bot
@@jaidengabriel1675 It was referendum where people voted 90% to join Russia. In 1954 Crimea was given to Ukraine by Hruschov, who was Ukranian by the way.
How do u call US invasion of Iraq with lies about weapons of mass destruction?
How do u call US invasion of Yugoslavia in 1999 with false genocide narrative?
Putin is doing exactly what US has been doing for decades now.
“What was Vietnam like after the Vietnam War?” for a future video?
Not too peachy, I think.
@@Robin-jk6wz At least they helped liberate Cambodia from the Khmer Rouge so there's that.
@@dragonace119 Yeah, that was pretty based; I just think that they could have been better if we (US & friends) didn't fucked them over.
@@dragonace119 Though China later on invaded them.
@@brandonlyon730 They pushed them back though so there's that.
“Resign and let your successor deal with it.” Now where have I heard that because.
Could you do a video on what was Europe’s response to Spain losing nearly all of their American colonies in a relatively short period of time?
_Free real estate._
Was it any quicker than others? Spain had control of Louisiana until they gave it back to France right before Napoleon sold it.
@@silencemeviolateme6076
So between 1810 to 1826 they lost the majority of their colonies in the Americas from Argentina up to Mexico. They still had some territories such as the Philippines, Cuba, etc., but they lost their largest, most important colonies about a hundred years before the other Europeans lost their most important colonies.
@@potzilla4471 they started colonizing about a hundred years earlier too. The 1500s was dominated by the Spanish. The English empire in the east was built on the Portuguese empire.
Slight correction, Treaty of Lausanne didnt finalized Republic of Turkey's borders, it was the referandum of Antioch/Hatay that finalized the borders since they chose to join Turkey.
Also the Treaty of Moscow. They agreed the border around what is now Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia. 16 March 1921. The man sent for the signing was Halil Pasha, an uncle of Enver Pasha who Kemal actually respected, unlike his opinions of Enver.
Referendum of Antioch = 🤡🤡🤡🤡
@@sator3946 You = 🤡
Also the treaty of Ararat
@@kasadam85 actually you're semi correct and I'm wrong lmao
The treaty of Kars is what you're referring to which is where they actually made agreement on the three borders.
The Moscow treaty was more for weapons and some assistance from the Soviets and general recognition of each others existence.
As an Ancient Historian who is awful with contextualising ancient with modern history. I love watching stuff like this, because sometimes I'm too wrapped up in ancient politics to see what recent influence it has, thank you!
As an ancient historian I hope you will never use the term ancient turkey.
It's pretty crazy how basically all of European politics can be traced back to the Fall of Rome and the instability it caused.
as a greek i totally feel u
@Theo Chi With all due respect sir. The greek philosophies and sciences were inherited by the islamic cultures at the dawn of the medieval age, with most of europe, including greece itself, denoting them as pagan scriptures of little importance. It's short sighted to describe any culture as "lower in mentality" or uncultured. People have a lot to learn from eachother and if we think like this, then we cannot do that
@Theo Chi I understood that you are saying today's turks are less cultured than greeks, which is not really true. But maybe i understood you wrong
Calling İstanbul to Constantinople is like calling your ex "she is my girlfriend" when she is someone else's wife.
1. It was called Constantinople at that time.
2. Under this very weird analogy, Turkey kidnapped someone’s ex and forcibly married them, before renaming them. You can imagine why the wounded party might not want to recognize the renaming.
Ataturk : wanna hear a joke
Greece : yeah
Ataturk : Constantinople
Greece : i don't get it
Ataturk : exactly
Ataturk: and guess what?
Greece: what?
Ataturk: it ain't even called Constantinople no more fam ( 1930 )
@@kasadam85 Only if you consider turkey to be a county instead of a bird! OOH!
@@Random-World-Eater Cringe
@@yigit2167 Your whalecum.
@@Random-World-Eater Jokes on you, it's actually "Turkiye" now haha
With the invasion of Ukraine, you ll have a lot of content for your historical videos.
More seriously, your work is great once again :)
I am disapointed in our perminant president
"Why did Russia attack Ukraine?"
@@Doughboy_Gobbler23 answer: Resources and he wants to create an Empire
@@LegoWarFims nope, Putin wants that victory royale
Yes, _historical._
Here’s an idea: Why did Montenegro, despite being a member of the Entente, lose sovereignty and become annexed into Yugoslavia after WWI
The fact that this event is so obscure makes it such a perfect History Matters video subject.
It's the Entente, they didn't care
Also I like to think because Austria-Hungary occupied it,It left the Serbians alone with the option to decide Montenegro's future and that was annexation,just my idea though
From what I know about early Yugoslavia it wasn't as much of an annexation as much as a (mostly) willing union. Montenegrin kings and people at the time did believe that their future is to at one point unite with Serbia. These ideas didn't take off until it was discovered that the King of Montenegro was willing to make a separate peace with the central powers, thereby betraying the Entente. After the country was liberated the pro Serbian politicians took the initiative and agreed to become a part of Yugoslavia. There were still those loyal to the king and and independent Montenegro, and they revolted, but with no success. Today you will mostly see it characterised as a forceful occupation and annexation , but it would be wrong to say that nobody in Montenegro was actually on board with it at the time. Montenegro remained mostly pro Yugoslavia/Pro Serbia for the rest of the 20th century, untill Đukanović took power. But then again, we'll never know whether or not Serbia would have respected Montenegro's wishes had it not decided to join. The truth is that, even if it wasn't immediate, Montenegro would most likely become a part of Yugoslavia no matter what.
That is quite a simple answer. Montenegro is a country populated by serbs. Montenegrians are serbs. They just lived under a different entity. After ww1 they themselves voted to join the kingdom of Serbia because they are serbs. They couldnt do it before because Austro Hungarian Empire was against Serbian people uniting because there were serbs in Bosnia which Austro Hungaria anexed. Also that is why Austro Hungarian Empire made Albania out of nothing after balkan wars that happened few years before WW1 so it doesnt give Kingdom of Serbia acess to sea even though majority of people there were serbs and Serbia and Montenegro together fought of Otomans from the land. Long story short, after WW1 there was no longer Austro Hungarian Empire to to block serbs from Montenegro to unite with rest of the serbs so they voted themselves and joined Kingdom of Serbia. Simple.
@@vasilije94 Albania Serbs ? Where did you get your history books from ? If anything Montenegro is more Albania then anything. Especially in the south they all speak Albanian.
If the british can grant the jews palestine then they could have granted greece Constantinople...
Allies: You've lost the Great War
Mustafa Kemal and the Turks: I didn't hear no bell
Ulan 2 kelime İngilizce yazdığınızda bile bir sürü yanlışlar var. Gerçekten İngilizce eğitimimiz bok gibiymiş.
@@erdemcrpc7115 yanlış olabilir de, slang konuşunca anadili İngilizce olanlar da böyle kullanıyo, ve de meme zaten, I didn't hear no ... veya I didn't do no ...
@@atlascandemir8067 dur hacı. Bırak meme kendini yaratmış ne güzel.
@@SemihG22 gerçekten
By the way it was Russian bolsheviks who provided Mustafa Kemal with nessecary arms and money to fight the Greeks and reconquer Greek occupied part of Anatolia. This victory made British military withdraw from Constantinople and led to establishment of modern Turkey.
It's always nice when History Matters uploads at night.
For me its the Afternoon
AURELIAN???
@@JoeWithTheHoesBiden hello fellow Aurelian fan
I actually live in Sèvres and the building used for the Treaty is now an art museum. Not very useful information, but I thought it was a fun coincidence
SEVRES est pres de paris?
@@tadopoulostadopoylos5864 oui ! À quelques kilomètres seulement
Greece: We are descendants of Rome and Ancient Greece!
Britain: (does it mean I'll have to give them back all Ancient Greek treasures I have in the British Museum?)
Britain: No, you are not
if they are the descendants of rome, and rome looted so much of the british resources and never gave them back, then it's only fair the british keep those ancient treasures. even steven :)
@@lokischeissmessiah5749 I don’t know if they can be equally compared
@@BartlomiejDmowski why not
Great topic! As a greek with roots from there, this was very informative.
During the Ottoman Partitions, there was almost a Republic of Pontus for the Pontic Greeks.
That's just an interesting little tidbit
There was also a Republic of Tamrash and the Republic of Western Thrace for the Pomaks and Turks in Bulgaria and Greece.
Man that’s too bad that never happened
@@xELITExKILLAx Well it depends. For me, a Turk whose paternal ancestors are from that region, it might not have been so nice and we would have been killed or exiled.
@Ludogatari Good for you your ancestors massacred the ancient inhabitants of this land ;P
@@ludogatari9558 I am (little) part Rûm but that side of the family fled to Sicily. It was foolish all around, it happened all over Europe (this is something sometimes Turks misunderstand when these things are pointed out, or because of the ignorance of the accuser, as if only them are accused of being guilty of this). We could have strived for understanding and having brothers in our neighbor's garden and neighbors in ours teaching us language and culture. But what happened is that nationalism was at its most ferocious state.
But maybe I am deluded, and the sad reality is minorities are exploited by a foreign aggressor to take your land - see what is happening in Ukraine right now. And those ethnic cleansing on all sides, in 1900s, lived in the terror that any shown mercy could be used against them.
My favorite topic from this channel since the “when did the Roman’s become Italians”. Love the creative topics!
You can always count on creative topics from them!
fun fact Greeks reffered to themselfs as "Romans" after the Greek revolution ended they started saying we are Hellenes (Greece means South Italy)
@@Serbest_Piyasa_Ekonomisi hahahaha!
@@Serbest_Piyasa_Ekonomisi bro what? You mean the opposite? Greece was never Turkey but turkey was Greece for many many years.
Roman Current ones turkey because Istanbul Constantinople 😊
Because they couldn't
The Greek King was actually Danish .
It is his wife who was German (Kaiser’s sister) .
The Danish monarchy is ethnically German.
This is too much you guys need to stop doing this stuff.
@@valentinr.dominguez2892 ALL European monarchies are ethnically German.
It's all German? Always has been 😂
@@valentinr.dominguez2892 So is the british, what's your point?
Fourth reason: By now Constantinople/Istanbul after nearly 500 years was pridominal turkish in population and Greek rule over the city would have been next to impossibel against Turkish resistance.
25% of the Turkish population lives in thrace. In modern populations that would mean Greece with 10 million people would need to occupy and control 20 million
"By now", ye cus they purged every greek citizen living there
@@Creem16 That'd been going on for a few hundred years at that point.
@@Creem16 I really thank people like you, not only you guys make thousands or millions of people to deny "Armenian" or "Greek" genocide but also encourage them to be sceptical about many things in their lives.
Average Eastern European when they lose the war: "You genocide"
When they win the war: "Haha die"
@@kebabseverim3364 it's never aceptable to mass kill civilians, you don't need to be European to understand this. for example my country Brazil killed most of the male population of Paraguay during the war with some accounts saying 70% of the male population. this was wrong, even if they were soldiers (which I doubt) we should have porsued a different strategy to allow the soldiers to surrender without fight.
Even if Greece had somehow managed to capture and hold Constantinople (or parts of Asia Minor for that matter), it is highly unlikely that we would have been able to hold them without the rest of the Ottoman Empire's partition (according to the Treaty of Sevres) in effect. But even if the partition was successful and lasted for the entire Interwar period (1918 - 1939), it is not wild to assume that Turkey would have joined the Axis in WW2 and sought to recapture these lands.
And lost again in the end of WW2!
@@christos1917 *start. they would probably get pushed back by the Soviets
i don't think they it would last to ww2 they would mostly get it at the same timeline since they where ready to take it from Britain by force.
Well Greece Captured some parts of Asia Minor where a big part of the population was Greek. When Ataturk came into power the Greek army was defeated and the Greek people were violently kicked out and the biggest city Smyrna was burned down.
"Greek majority in asia" was a series of documents with infactual statistics created to not breach america's conditions for joining the war. If you think that a city that was in the rule of an empire for hundreds of years, an empire that turkified its settlements via controlled migrations, managed to have a minority for its main populace you would be wrong.
This is a surprisingly well answer for otherwise a low level question
Summary is that the Greeks were beaten by the Turks. Simple as that.
@@TheBooban its more like, they werent relevant to claim such a large and strategic city. Even if nationalists in ankara was toppled by greek army, the british would have kept constantinople for themselves.
@@anilkarakaya9343 you missed the part where the Turks fought them and kicked them out of the areas they did hold. If they held that, the British would have handed over Constantinople as the empire declined.
@@anilkarakaya9343 my comment was deleted. RUclips deletes all my political commentary.
@@TheBooban I exactly said the opposite in my previous comment. If turks had lost, british would have kept the city and turkish straits for themselves. They would still keep it or most likely later decide to create a puppet turkish mandate based on constantinople so that turks wouldnt become communists. Greece not having constantinople is more about greece being insignificant, not with turkish victory.
Situations like these happened often in modern Greek history. Because of its unique maritime geography Greece was part of the British world system (the Royal Navy controlled the Mediterranean and Greek shipping depended on British goodwill) but its interests as a country only sometimes overlapped with those of the British. You can still see it today; most of Europe worries about Russia, but Greece worries about Turkey.
Well yeah when your people get war crimed by your neighbor that you’ve never had great (or even fine) relations with…gets a bit worrying
@@looinrims War crime? Like what? Could you give us a reliable (not propaganda) source about that matter?
@@machineboot6748 im not even gonna disscuss anything with a person who takes wikipedia as a main source. I'm really surprised how you guys talking like this while you have legit war crimes in the past against turks.
@@aliozcan287 bet you don't believe in the Armenian genocide either
@@machineboot6748 thank you for answering decently instead of yelling and swearing but if you be more objective about wikipedia they seem to be biased time to time, idk if its about the uselessness of moderation or something, but the facts get softened or manipulated oftenly, i'd show you proof but my mind is fucked up about russian invasion i dont even have any shitty wiki pages on my mind :(
Please do a video on Transnistria. It's a tiny separatist part of Moldova that is technically the last holdout of the USSR.
Watch his video " why does Moldova exist?"
@@mikemeta4908 shit, much like Transnistria I forgot that video existed. Well, a vid about Nagorno-Karabakh or South Ossetia/Abkhazia would be cool.
@@conserva-chan2735 I'm with you there dude! Especially when Azerbaijan just took the region like two or three years ago.
@@conserva-chan2735 if you disagree with Putin, Putin's gonna put in some new countrys into you. Sorry not sorry
@@0249er Vladimir? More like Vlad is near.
Thank you once again for your great detail, I always learn so much through your videos
it is what it is we can't change the past but we can pave the future together 🇹🇷❤️🇬🇷
Yes past cannot be changed but since you learn from the past you have to take the necessary actions. For Greece these actions are extreme military protection and common military agreements with the Big Forces
Yes bro
Past was the past when u owned Constantinople
So don’t say the past is the past
They changed the past when they took Constantinople u can too
@@Mgbizkut You want war? Lets go dude
“Years and times will pass, but it will be ours again” -old popular Greek proverb.
A prayer that will not happen is not called amen --Turkish Proverb
Never make assumptions (or start celebrating) before the end. --old Greek proverb.
@@huseyinsadkbolat6002
If you have oil ,we'll come for it all. - American proverb.
peepee poopoo -- proverb
@@54356776 @54356776 There is very little oil in Turkey and you are not as strong as Usa
just İstanbul is better than Greece
Here's hoping this channel lives long enough into the future to one day cover the fustercluck and potential global conflict going on now between Ukraine and Russia. I still hope things will resolve themselves peacefully, and that my future children won't have to write a history paper on WWIII.
It's a bit late for 'peacefully'...
Wars already on. What happens now is if NATO gets involved. One stray missile into Turkey or the Baltic’s and it’s WW3
And just like that my optimism dies, much like most Europe's peace of mind.
It'll either end with NATO/the US pressuring Ukraine into giving up Crimea because nobody wants a war now since nuclear weapons are something that exists.... or it'll escalate quickly into WW3.
So uhh.... bit of a swing in possibilites there.
The question is will it be nukes or emp? Either way myself and none of you will live to see happier days. God save us.
There was a collision of negative coincidences.
1) Greece was given a German King in 1832, which made us neutral for the time but made us an enemy of Britain after German unification. In the same time, Austria Prussia and Germany were always allies of Turkey, so that made us vulnerable on the double.
2) Britain actually offered Constantinople to Greece if we joined them against the Turks in Gallipoli, but our German King said no, the British lost, and when they finally won afterwards by themselves they owed us no favour.
3) Greek politicians realised the king's destructive role and sent him into exile in order to fight with Britain, but in the meantime Turks had time to exterminate Armenians and Pontian Greeks, so they wouldn't have to fight in two fronts later.
4) when we actually invaded Anatolia, the Russian Revolution had just happened, which meant Greece lost its best supporter and ally, and Turkey automatically lost its worst enemy and won a friend, because Greece fought against the Bolsheviks.
5) Russia apart from being the best and natural ally of Greece as the biggest orthodox country in the world, was also the only reason why the West supported Greece over Turkey. Greece was favoured by the British so as not to collaborate with Russia and give Russia access to the Mediterranean. Since Greece was hostile to the USSR and Turkey was friendly, the West starting flattering Turkey so that they don't become communist, which was the danger now. So Turkey in 1922 won with Russian and French guns.
6) the King out of spite slandered the politicians who threw him out of power as responsible for leading the country into war, and when we should be fighting the hardest, the royal politicians were saying we're fighting for no reason and the King will end the war as soon as he's brought back. The Greeks were stupid enough to vote for him, and Greece in 1920 had a German King again, which sent Britain straight to the arms of Kemal Atatürk. After coming into power he knew he should continue the war, because it was matter of survival, but being reluctant to work with Britain and Germans being always pro Turkish he lost any allies. So it was no wonder the front collapsed in 1922 because Turkey had everyone on its side and Greece was alone.
7) Europe may have supported Greece to put pressure on Turkey and Russia, but never wanted to see a Roman empire again, which questioned their self proclaimed status of heirs of ancient Greek and Roman heritage. The Vatican firmly opposed Constantinople turning Greek, to the point of favouring it remaining Muslim than Orthodox.
8) Kemal Atatürk was a very clever and strong leader, who took advantage of the favourable circumstances and the chaotic policy of Greece and put the nail on the coffin of any Greek empire. Turks after the fall of the sultan didn't have a vacuum of power and had immediately a new leader.
9) In conclusion, the treasonous role of the Greek King and royal party, the naivete and fatigue of the Greek people, the reluctance of the West to see a Greek Orthodox empire, good Turkish strategy and leadership, and most importantly the Bolshevik Revolution, made it impossible for thr Greeks to realise their Big Idea of freeing Aya Sofya. Because man has his plans but God has His own.
@Y. Emrah Özdaş you are confusing 1912 with 1922.
Very good response. Well said.
That #7. lmao
@@philippmaqs8799 the Orthodox church has martyrs both from Roman emperors, Arab khalifs, Turkish sultans and Catholic Popes. In the orthodox calendar we commemorate many monks who were butchered or tortured to death by Catholic soldiers for not converting. During ww2 the Vatican supported a Croat general who massacred thousands of Serb orthodox and is now a saint of the Catholic church. The German army starved the whole city of Athens to death but the Vatican promised food only if we converted, and we suffered famine under the Italian army while the Turks sent us supplies!!! But you won't hear that in the Pope's Christmas speech (my turn to laugh)
There are some mistakes.
1) Britain offered Cyprus, not Constantinople, during the Gallipoli campaign. There were literally no plans to include Constantinople in Greece's borders. The only talks to take Constantinople away from the Turks was through the secret talks with Imperial Russia during negotiations regarding the partition of the Ottoman Empire during the ongoing WWI. Even when Russia fell into civil war, Britain and the other Entente allies were reluctant to handle the City to the Greeks. Part of this was the fear of British officials about Muslim insurrection (the Ottoman Sultan was still the Caliph [the religious leader of the Muslim world]) in British-occupied countries with Muslim population (e.g. British Raj). By discarding the Ottoman Sultan and Caliph would meant that the British would have to deal with the ire of their British Muslim subjects in their colonial empire. Another was the Entente's distaste and hate for the German-Danish-Greek royal family as stated in the video. No way they would allow a German king to become Emperor of the Greeks/Romans in the throne of Constantinople.
2) Even when the German Greek King (Constantine) returned during the Greco-Turkish war, the British public didn't support Kemal directly, only its allies, France and Italy, through their guns. That doesn't mean they fully supported Greece neither, with the exception of the moral support of David Lloyd George. Until the end of the Greco-Turkish war, the British public was staunchly neutral to the conflict. The British public even opposed David Lloyd George's plan to counter the Turks at the Chanak Crisis, leaving the British troops to evacuate from Anatolia and Constantinople shortly thereafter. The Treaty of Lausanne followed afterwards, and the everything else is history.
I love that you have kept the same style of animation since the beginning, it's charming
as a turk: I LOVE EVERYBODY 🇹🇷🇹🇷🇹🇷. it’s governments we don’t like, not people. a government and its people are two different people.
At this point, you should just put "James Bisonette" on a T-shirt and sell it on your merch store
"Who's German king had no right to claim the inheritance of Rome"
They were ok with that for 1000 (or something) years and then they dicided it was a problem?
The Turkish resolve to keep fighting after losing the war was always remarkable for me. Kemal's military tactics as a general in the field fighting 2 world powers (britain and france) the italians, the greeks and winning when anyone else would have given up against such overwhelming ods is even more amazing. I am glad Kemal knew when to stop, he didnt push for the empire's original borders and limited himself to the Anatolian peninsula and Istanbul leaving room for compromise and peace, had he been over ambitious as most people would have he might have lost the war as britain and france would have surely committed to all out war if their colonies in the levant were threatened in adition to those in anatolia.
Not true, the Russian assisted them hugely. Without that, the turks would've lost.
@@andy1992uk Ruslar bize yardım etmeseydi bir süre sonra kendileri kaybedecekti Gazi Mustafa Kemal Ruslarla konuşma yaptı ve onlara düşmanımızın aynı olduğunu söyledi
@@andy1992uk nah
@@tank1503 he is right ussr not only helped but they were the first country to recognise them as a new country
@@wankawanka3053 why would the ussr help the Turks?
Modern Greeks embrace both their Ancient Hellenic legacy and their Byzantine Christian heritage by ethnicity.
Being the predominant ethnic group in the region of Constantinople and Ionia already for a millennium before the Roman Empire emerged, Greek people never vanished from their native lands. Hence it was only natural for the Eastern part to retain its pre-existing Hellenic identity and background.
The testimony of the Byzantine Empire is evident to this very day across the region, in every single Byzantine Church and monument, but first and foremost in the majestic Cathedral of “Hagia Sophia”, still standing for 1500 years now..
A Huge war breaks out in Europe
History matters: why Greece couldn't take Constantinople
what do you russian liberals think of ukraine, georgia, EU, NATO?
Yes
"Greece was a reluctant ally, which wasn't at best terms with the Entente", I mean can you blame the Germanophille Greek monarchists? The Central Powers demanded for Greece's neutrality, while the Entente urged them to fight in Gallipoli in a suicidal campaign against the well-prepared Turks, with no promise or concession guaranteed at that time, only wanting more soldiers as carcasses into the front. It was only when Venizelos was dismissed from office when the British made the offer to give Cyprus, but at that point the "National Schism" took a grim hold to Greece's modern politics.
In WWI, who would trust who? The Germans who pushed forward for Greece's neutrality, or the Allies who wanted carcasses for the Allies to step on to achieve their goals, with the other nations (e.g. Italy or the Arab Revolt) not getting their fulfilled promises in the aftermath of the war?
Also the Entente literally put Thessaloniki, that back then was as big as Athens, under martial law and whole Greece was divived.
@@petr79 It also makes someone think who violated neutrality? Because the Allies respected Belgium's neutrality, and responded with an ultimatum to Germany to withdraw. However, the Entente violated Greece's neutrality by establishing their presence in Thessaloniki.
Greece and Italy were both screwed in WW1 and were the true losers of the allied side after the peace treaty. Greece only got eastern Thrace , Ionia (Smyrna region) was going to be an independant state and a referendum was supposed to take place to choose unification to Greece or independence. Noone knows how this would have gone since muslims were majority if the population , christian and jews were only majority in the city of Smyrna. So Greece got basically only promises. Italians got screwed big time too they basically got nothing at all.
Keep in mind Bulgaria was also a member of the central powers and at that time still controlled territory with large Greek populations. It's hard to trust an alliance when one of your national rivals is a member of one of them.
well-prepared Turks - LOL. They were come from a constant war of 200 years and lost EVERYTHING. They had nothing and gave there last blood. But if it makes you sleep better, yes they were wel prepared. 😂
Greece gets constantly betrayed by the powers.
well if you cant even defeat the defeated enemy your own. then basically you don't deserve the win
@@jupiterbirlesikgezegenleri9884 True, but it is a bit hard when the powers support your enemy, or withdraw the help they promised at the worst possibe time. If it was a straight fight, history consistently shows Greece can handle being outnumbered :)
@@xpictos777 They lost despite being more numerous and armed in this war however. Why? Greed and overpride.
@@xpictos777 It wasn't a straight fight :) Greeks had more troops and better equipment but still lost to Turks.
@@xpictos777 lets not forget that one of the main reasons greek was independent at all was because of British support, just because we didnt fight an all out war for you doesnt mean we betrayed you, as someone else said if we gave it to you, the turks would have just invaded and crushed you.
As an outsider looking in, Greece, Istanbul and the Turkish East Thrace region are all Greek in my eyes, perhaps not politically but rather ethnically and culturally.
Although perhaps in the last century or so Istanbul has become more cosmopolitan and multi-ethnic with more Turks moving in looking for more economical possibilities.
Please native Turks and Greeks don't slaughter me in the comments, I'm a bit ignorant in the history between Greece-Turkey, I do know however I wouldn't mind finding me girl in either Greece or Turkey, women there are fuckin' gorgeous ❤❤❤🔥🔥🔥
no mixing
Only 3.743 out of 16.324 people were Greek orthodox in Istanbul in 1477. The ratio difference is bigger in other western cities.
Nice video! As a Greek I like that we get to see such topics being discussed in here!
There are some missing points. Until 1936, bosphours was not in the control of Turkey. After Montreaux agreement Turkey had acquired to control of Bosphorus.
My name.
Yeah they can watch fully armored russian warships cross the bosphorus. What a great control
They can't block a single ship. That's not control.
Gibberissh bullshit . He doesn't mean the straits. He mean the city itself..
@@ajvhan they CAN.. If Turkey goes to war that can block Who ever they want
🇬🇷: "We're fighting for our independence, Europe can you help?"
🇬🇧🇫🇷🇩🇪: "Sure now have this king, he's German"
*100 years later*
🇬🇷: "Hi I see you're partitioning the Ottoman empire, please can we have our ancestral lands?"
🇬🇧🇫🇷: "No cos your king's German"
🇬🇷: "bruh"
Underrated ❤
Greece just losses to chad turkey
@@terrorgaming459 the fact you can't even speak without making a single mistake says a lot About the validation of your statement lmfao
@@Hellenic_Empire Your point makes no sense, Grammar Nazi.
From this point, you can understand the position of modern Greece in the eyes of its neighboring countries. It has always been a poor puppet state controlled by the Great Powers, working accordingly to their wishes and interests, since its independence from the Turks, with no guarantee of becoming a middle power whatsoever.
I wish for the day that karma would hit the other Western powers, deprive them of their liberties and assets, and be enslaved to the interests of the other superpowers, with the history of their country being shifted to a memory of the past.
Both Greece and the last Ottoman State actually wanted to build strong a Helleno-Turkic state to stop the dispute of Constantinople (or Konstantinyye) but that idea was also dumped by allies (France and British).
The answer to almost every question in history is to simply blame the British
I know!!!😂
I mean, Turkey were going to take the city regardless of what the British did
I don't know how you got that upvotes but british is not to blame here.
well this wasn't British fault the Turk simply will not give up. After ww1 with almost 1 million dead and an economy in drain it was best to give what the Turks wanted.
Britain at this point hate Greece because Greece bring back pro German King back to the power
You know because they just at war with Germany
Sometimes it's weird looking at us all, the history nerds, and seeing how we all come from different parts of the world and give our opinion about a specific region in a specific time (or just like to know its history).
As a Turk woman, I love your ancient and modern culturel values ❤ Long live Greece
what Values ? throwing people to the lions to eat them ? or burning people alive for choosing their religion ? or impaling people alive ? or the church enslaving all the citizens ? what VALUES ?
@@Knowledge-jk3ro I like democracy, philosophy, medical lead, art conception and sculpture shaved. I think you are confused them with middle eastern people..
@@SedaYudumAlkan Middle eastern people were living in paradise on earth when the Europeans were discussing if women were human or animal.
you lack proper education . you are brainwashed by the western propaganda.
i dont blame you because after WW1 all the schools books were written by anit middle eastern enemies.
ALL what you see in the west we had 1000 years ago , it was the mongols that destroyed us. the crusaders took freedom and art and education from our land and carried them back into europe.
it was the middle east that made europe what you like today.
@@SedaYudumAlkan the middle eastern people are the teachers .. without them all europe would be in dark age . they took it all from Muslim Civilization after the crusaders came and took knowledge back to europe.
including ART, science , Justice , freedom for people , and Women rights. Actually the graduation black dress in universities originated in Muslim Andalus in Spain.
You ignored the most important reason for Greece getting it, being able to choose the achievement "form the byzantine empire"
I see you're a man of culture as well 😏
Ottomans did that achievement. They repopulated the city and made it rich again, and copy pasted byzantine organization and spreaded it by expanded borders
@@anilkarakaya9343 Lmao what a joke, please tell us of ONE city the Ottomans founded? They made some ugly ass mosques that have no symmetry and converted everything else they could find, a nation that just lacks in the arts and crafts and had to employ Christian subjects to not go afloat.
@@TimelordDelta Well actually you are right, as a Turk (and also living in İstanbul), the Ottoman's didn't found any noticeable cities, and didn't built any significant infrastucture or anything other than mosques and unnecessary palaces. The Ottomans were good at capturing cities thanks to their unmatched military might in the first half of the empire, but not so good at maintaining them unlike their predecessors Romans and Byzantines. Most of historical buildings in Anatolia was actually built by the Seljuks.
Also you are also right about the craftsman. Even in the early republic of Turkey, most of artisans, craftsman and skilled workforce were jewish and Balkan minorities (mostly Greek) which unfortulately forced to leave the country in 6 September 1955 pogrom.
The only point you were wrong was the symetry, which some of the mosques (like Selimiye) actually quite symetrical and got top level mosque architecture.
Greetings from Turkey
@@cagraydn689
I always confused, is Seljuks turk and descendants of modern Turks...?
A greek neighbour told me once why it is called Istanbul. Because in the old times the Greek said: Is tan Polli. Which could mean in greek: " to the city".
Right
As being a Turk, I could say that’s right.
@ abi ben Türk değil miyim doğru diyorum işte😅
@@Laradilrey666 Haklısın kardeşim :)
SO SO SO SO SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS SOS SO GRREEK SOS SOS SOS GREEK SOSS OS FISKE
I love your channel keep up the great stuff!
Britain in another worldline: *achieves mare nostrum for herself in 1919*
Mussolini in that world: "£₩€×!"
A great question that I never knew I wanted the answer to.
Love Greece from Istanbul ❤
👍👍👍from greece
CONSTANTINOPLE*
☝🏼☦️🇬🇷
@@GreekOrthodox7yarramı konstantinople. 82 selanik 🇹🇷
@@GreekOrthodox7 I’m sorry but officially it’s Istanbul. On earth there is no any place as constantinople now.
@@shoshu_nichirentr much like Palestine
The ending days of WW1 and it's aftermath were some of the most injustice filled days of our collective history.
How is Turkey not losing Turkish majority cities injustice? Would you rather have a giant genocide from Greece to force the Turks out of the city just like they did in the Balkan parts of Greece?
cant believe im saying this, but im now mad at the british
I have an old Rand McNally wall map of Asia that shows the area from Constantinople to the Dardanelles labeled "Zone of the Straits" and now I finally know why! Thanks for another great video.
"Rand McNally", isn't that where hamburgers eat people? :p
It's insane that the idea who deserved to be the successor and inheritor of Rome was still a though in the mind of Europe over 450 years after the fall of the Roman empire with the fall of Constantinople.
(the byzantine empire got that name so Germans could call themselves the Holy Roman Empire, they were still the Roman Empire despite the name change.)
They had successors of the Roman Empire while the Roman Empire was still alive.
And Byzantines still called themselves Romans, Byzantine was an afterthought by historians in 1500s
Fun fact is, Ottomans called themselves Roman too and claimed to be Roman Empire's successor.
And there is the fact that Mehmet the Conqueror claimed the Caesar of the Romans. He has taken The City not to end the empire but to be the successor.
@@99batran And the Greek people were commonly known as Romans into the late 18th/early 19th centuries.
In 1992 I was in Athens. I saw a large hand-painted slogan in Greek on the side of a major church: "Constantinople is the capital of Greece, not Athens..."
If greece want war, they can come !
@@f.berjer4612 No, no, trust me, we dont want war. Who made you think so anyways?
now athens is home to german and italian merchants.
@@perspecktivity I was in Athens when my Greek friend told me that there was an area of Athens officially called Apollonia (the coast of Apollo.) It is now called Polonia, which is the Greek name for Poland. I wonder why!
@@xwriatikh Claiming another nation's city as your capital generally leads to war no?
One of the greatest injustices of the modern world was the Treaty of Lusanne
No it was a justice because the new Turkish empire could have invade the Aegean Islands as well keep killing the Armenians and Kurds in the Caucasus.
Ikr the Turks should've been stripped from their power and should only keep Anatolia so they won't be apart of Europe.
Finally, someone brave enough to lay bare why exactly Constantinople got the works.
But that's nobody's business but the Turks!
Too busy bullying the Hungarians, Irish and lastly the Germans. It’s almost like that plan backfired and destroyed their empire reducing them to an American client state.
@@christopherwatson34 Constantine the Great entered the chat
Even old New York was once New Amsterdam