Alfa Romeo vs. Tesla: Fixing the modern car - The Carmudgeon Show - Ep. 18
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- Опубликовано: 21 сен 2024
- Derek finally drove two modern sedans, the Alfa Giulia Quadrifoglio and the Tesla Model 3 Dual Motor Performance. They both blew his mind, but he only wants one for himself. That said, he thinks everyone else should buy the other.
In this episode, Jason and Derek stumble across an idea of how to save Alfa Romeo in the U.S. - and why Tesla Model 3 has proven so popular. The basic idea: the rest of the supposed “sports sedans” have gotten so homogenous and boring that there's no reason to buy them.
Also, Jason thinks California is a decade ahead of the rest of the country, and in related news, he likes the smell of his own farts. Smug jerk that he is.
The Carmudgeon Show is a comedic, information-filled conversation with Jason Cammisa and Derek Tam-Scott, two car enthusiasts who are curmudgeonly beyond their years. Proving you don’t have to be old to be grumpy, they spend each episode talking about what’s wrong with various parts of the automotive universe. Despite their best efforts to keep it negative, they usually wind up laughing, happy, and extolling their love for cars. Which just makes them angrier and more bitter.
Jason Cammisa is an automotive journalist, social-media figure, and TV host with over 250 million views on RUclips alone. Jason’s deeply technical understanding, made possible by a lifelong obsession with cars, allows him to fully digest what’s going on within an automobile - and then put it into simple terms for others to understand. Also, a Master’s Degree in Law trained him to be impossible to argue with.
Derek Tam-Scott still tries. He’s a young automotive expert with old-man taste in cars, and a Master’s Degree in Civil Engineering - which means he knows how to be civil to Jason. Or at least he tries. With a decade and a half’s experience buying, selling, driving and brokering classic and exotic cars, he’s experienced the world’s most iconic cars. And hated most of them.
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Count me in for the manual Giulia.....
Giulia owner here! The steering is jarring at first but you do get used to it. You learn to steer with your fingers and not your arms on the freeway because of how reactive the steering is. Once you've calibrated your brain, it becomes pretty relaxing to drive
Just get a Tesla and hold your hand(s) lightly on the wheel.
@@rkan2 Tesla's suck
I maxed my Giulia TI, the steering gets super tight above 130. It works well, not twitchy.
This is very interesting subject as I find the fast steering on all Alfas for the past 30 years the best thing about the brand, they are fun even at slow speeds. However after driving the Alfas exclusively for almost two decades I do not see why other manufacturers do not use this setup, especially those who pretend to be a sport car brands like BMW for example.
As for the argument that a fast steering can be dangerous at higher speeds, this is really not an issue. My wife drives her small Lancia with a very slow steering rack and when we go to the seaside she drives my Alfa sometimes on a highway at 140kmh, she says nothing but I see that first few kilometres she makes few sharp movements as she need some time to relax and hold the wheel with her fingers instead of grabbing it hard, but few minutes later everything feels normal again.
The thing is you buy 400+hp car and you get slow steering as there is a possibility that you will kill yourself while driving fast on autoban. Nonsensical really.
@@rkan2
Depends on why you buy a car.
If you buy a car to drive, buy the Alfa.
If you buy a car to be driven, buy the Tesla.
2017 Giulia QV, not a single problem over 3 years! Rev limiter hits at 7100 rpm btw.
Quick steering can help a lot when catching oversteer.
I've had a 4 cylinder Giulia for 2 years and it makes pretty much every single day feel like Christmas. Get one while you can because soon they will all be iCars. Installing a $400 JB4 gave me a Draggy clocked 4.5 sec to 60 easy.
This is why I love Jason, he’s the reason I found the Quadrofolgio and it became my dream car because of his praises of it and it’s drop dead gorgeous looks. He created my love for new cars and the passion that I now have for cars in general! Love the podcast as well!
Jason is a go-to guy for automotive opinion. Entertaining, non-condescending ,enlightening, educating,knowledgeable, and honest. Like that neighbor with a great,multi car,garage you wish you had on a Saturday afternoon. 😊
Here in Switzerland I can buy a 40K km (60k miles) MANUAL Giulia Quadrifoglio for 50K Swiss francs ($25k)
I only say this for the cruelty of it, yes. 🤣
The show gets better by every episode. Btw I own a 2018 Giulia ti sport Q2 and its the best car I’ve ever driven by far. I also owned an 2000 Alfa 156 2.0 :)
That's my boy!! Nice pizzas, by the way!! 😋
Also own a 2018 Ti Sport. It is sublime.
@@apostolostvable I own a 2017, I agree.
you should try a 156 with busso-engine ;-)
@@norbertkowalski8453 my first car was an Alfa 156 2.0. Then I had a 2.5 v6. It was glorious
23:33- that's the moment Derek nailed the reason to own the Quadrifoglio. I've got one, and it's ABSOLUTELY an emotional roller coaster. I wouldn't have it any other way.
Hi. For me, the show might as well be easily called "95 year old scholar & 12 year old street wise a*** talk cars because they know shit" and I would still watch it like it's my daily prayer. It's so refreshing, educating and passionate that I find myself endlessly craving for more. I only met the same level of passion watching the videos of Chris Harris. You're the only 3 people left around able to talk about cars passionately in an articulate manner, distilling in words complex emotions. And you are geeky mechanics and I love that part too. This is something he doesn't (not on camera, though he seems at least as knowledgeable). The way you complement each other in term of dynamics (I really don't care if there is some sort of a script behind the talk) is very, very, very, very nice. That being said, I congratulate you on the idea, the way you deliver your content and the substance and novelty you still bring to an old subject. THANK YOU! Words cannot express how rewarding it is. It's like going to a veeery fancy restaurant with one item on the menu, never the same, but still the same: extraordinary! A deep, deep feeling of gratitude towards you guys! You're not making me just this day, but all the previous as well.
"I'm dreaming of a [CENSORED.]" Heh, you guys get to guess what I said... 😈
I think I'd get flagged with an honest response
This thread is gonna go 0 to racist in 1.4 seconds.
Not gonna go there.
I think it's just "White Christmas" but because you've been in SoCal for so long you find the idea of snowy roads offensive
Sean Taylor SoCal?! How dare you?! Never!!
ISSIMI is hands down in my top 3 favourite RUclips channels
same here!
I have owned 2 Giulia's, (2017 & 2019) both of them have had ZERO issues. They are great cars. Super performance out of a 2.0 and great gas mileage. I would never buy a model 3 Tesla, they are extremely unreliable. Far worse than Alfa Romeo, which does not deserve the reputation for their new cars that they have been getting.
I'm really surprised that you didn't have any issue with 2017 model. I personally own 2018 Giulia TI and had radiator and turbo replaced due to leaking (17k miles). I heard 2017 ones have way more problems. And I think this is why I don't recommend buying Alfas as much as I love driving them.
@@225lee99 I owned the 2017 and had zero issues, my best friends family owns a 2017 without any issues. We are now leasing a 2019 and have had no issues with it as well. I can only speak to the reliability of the Giulia's we've owned and know about. Yours obviously had issues. I'm sure every car brand has issues, no brand is absolutely perfect.
Thank you for talking about electronic brakes. One of the things I tend to do when driving any car is come to so smooth a stop that the "inertial snap" is either imperceptible or nonexistent. Some of these newer brake-by-wire cars make that impossible to do, and it bothers me to no end. Manufacturers really need to work on that.
They update the software and is much much better now. I owned 2016 Giulia and I cant even tell difference now between normal and elek. brakes. But it is true that l used to it :D
Cammisa Content = day made
Thanks! :)
Jason good to hear your comments on the Giulia Quadrofoglio once again. Excellent job on the head to head video with the competition three years ago. Didn't you say in that video review that dynamically the Giulia Quadrofoglio was perfect and the M-3 is a decade behind in dynamics? Jonny Lieberman agreed with you. Derek I relate to your emotional connection to the car. Great hearing you share your thoughts and emotions on the Giulia Quadrofoglio. More importantly, your conclusion that the Tesla Model 3 is what you recommend for others is spot on. It takes a special audience to appreciate the Quadrofoglio. You're in excellent company. (I've driven the Proton Saga. LOL)
On that note, I've had zero issues on a 2018 Quadrofoglio two years on. Earlier 2016/2017 models were pre-production models rushed out for the press journalists and had teething problems with their software. These issues have largely been resolved on later models. FCA spent over 5 billion euros on this bespoke car (based on the Giorgio platform) and rushed this car out in 2.5 years so naturally press models did not have all the bugs resolved. It's not a Lexus but the Lexus does not drive like this Italian beauty (or beast in race mode).
Another moment of silence for the lack of a manual transmission?
because m3s and c63s have no problems. i worked at rusnak mercedes dealer ships and bmw dealerships and see many ovver 100k miles on many m3s and c63s. the owners always come on time for service thats why. Everytine the computer says oil change and brake and tires as well as service a and B
One thing about the Quadrifoglio is the depreciation is insane. You can buy a 2-3 year old low miles in the low 40s.
2018 is great to buy now, it has apple car play
most of them are buybacks though so idk, it's risky.
@@sturdyvw I bought a brand new one (TI), 2 years of ownership 4 things broke: something broke in turbo assembly (took them 2 months to fix), they couldn't figure, waited for a new one from Italy, leather on the dash broke, sunroof broke, sensor cover fell out.
Before I had 5 years of ownership of Toyota and Honda - 0 things ever broke.
Big difference. But just as big of a difference is the driving experience.
@@Vampire_born_in_2006 But then you have to drive a toyota or a Honda....
Problem is that every real car enthusiast loves how the Quadrifoglio drives, apparently everyone also knows it's the best driverfocust car and the car to buy but nobody really buy's it. That's a shame because the M3's and C63's of the world are selling like pancakes these days. Guess your viewers don't really listen to your advice. I believe the future will reward the ones who took the jump.
because m3s and c63s have no problems. i worked at rusnak mercedes dealer ships and bmw dealerships and see many ovver 100k miles on many m3s and c63s. the owners always come on time for service thats why. Everytine the computer says oil change and brake and tires as well as service a and B
Ignore this troll "David Pineda". He is just copying and pasting this reply multiple times. He is also a liar since I am a BMW Level 1 Master Technician for the past 7 years. If what he says is true I would be out of work. Also the new M3 platform is coming out this year and I guarantee you it's going to have lots of issues being a first year new model.
I cannot bear to buy a new car but if I had to, Alfa Gulia would be it. It stirs my soul.
Tesla is cool too but it’s a practical choice, especially if you have a long commute.
I am for the Alfa!
2017 Aprilia Factory Tuono
2001 MB E55 AMG
1977 MB 450 SL
I've got a 2.5 24v busso on my 166 and i can say the between 6 and 7k rpm it has an incredible sound even with stock exhaust.
I'm an old Carmudgeon nice to see Jason give V6 engines some praise, most people hate them. Me being the old & poor carmudgeon that I am has never experienced any of these new/er cars/electric, the newest car I've ever owned/driven was an 06 Toyota Tacoma quadcab 4x4. My Tacoma was a nice truck, but I hated the drive by wire throttle, I could "confuse" the computer by getting on and off the throttle too fast for it, if the right rear tire slipped on ice, a Man Hole cover, etc, while taking a right turn it would confuse the computer and wouldn't let the truck "go" until it had traction again, truck had little computer quirks I didn't like, computers are suppose to be fast, but I sometimes found myself waiting for the computer to make up it's mind. Give me drive by cable throttle, mechanical steering and an 7 speed manual trans, that I can drive, not some computer! YES I said 7 speed manual trans, I want to row them gears!
I owned a Suzuki DR 350 dual sport, it was a 6 speed bike, I still found myself wishing I had another gear at highway speeds.
I'd probably buy something like an Alfa, I like that turbo V6, if they made it in a manual trans and I could afford it, but I can't afford something like that....
So I drive a 78 Datsun king cab 620 pickup with a built Buick v6 engine swap, 2004r overdrive trans(wished it was manual), 411:1 rear gears, dual exhaust, front/rear anti sway bars, good tires shocks, front air dam, built it myself, it outruns about half of what's out there, surprises many people, sounds good, is a blast to drive, never gets me tickets, cause it seems to "confuse" the cops, It's a total sleeper, they look at it and scratch their heads, they "can't believe it was going that fast" that's good enough for me. ;)
My favorite car show on RUclips. Real car guys who understand cars and can rationally discuss and articulate what they like and why, honestly. Keep it up.
Audio level seemed very low in this episode.
I noticed it too. For me who's hearing is not the best from years of working in high noise factory, the eco and the low volume makes it hard to hear what the lads are speaking of, especially when they are whispering to each other.
Please fix this!
Hit the nail on the head. Tesla as a Daily + Manual, Naturally Aspirated Weekend car = Perfect 2 car garage.
Unless you need a truck - that can complicate things. I like the truck + Miata combination with some motorcycles on the side.
Watching this a year later as a new Alfa Giulia QV owner and am clapping and cheering every sentence! Cheers guys!
If these cars were women (or men)
Alfa Romeo:
Comes from a wealthy family.
Has a Bachelor's Degree from USC
Sexy af (also in good shape)
Sense of humor can offend some people (Not PC)
Accustomed to a certain lifestyle (High maintnence)
Bad temper (Always will try to get the last word in arguments)
Very fashionable
Can be classy but they'll pop off if they need to
Amazing in bed
Loud af
Street smart
Swears like Samuel L. Jackson
Has no problem backing you up in a fight but will also call you out on your bullshit
Tesla:
Comes from a wealthy and very connected family from Silicon Valley
Went to boarding school
Very intellegent (Doctorate from Oxford)
Started a business at a young age
Great in bed
Not very emotional and also quite stoic
Always knows what to say (Smooth talking)
Very refined and classy
Struggles to see things through others point of view
Vegan
Vewy, vewy quiet
Guess which one I'd prefer.
I'd also say that the Alfa loves wine (= gas) and gets drunk at times! Write this one on the ''Accustomed to a certain lifestyle (high maintenance)'' point! ;-D
You forgot to state that the tesla prefers to play polo at the country club
But the Tesla Model 3 is not a pretty car to look at, at least to my eyes. Kinda like Daffy Duck when he got his bill blown off by Bugs. I'd still own one, though, if there were better infrastructure support for EVs in my area. I deal with some very cold temps in the winter, also.
@@wisdomntshalintshali3296 Good suggestion
The Alfa sounds like the prefect girl for me (wife material). The Tesla on the other hand sounds lame and boring.
Love my Alfa! It’s incredible to drive.
One of the most interesting videos I've ever seen about the importance of emotion in a car. It is probably no coincidence that I own 2 cars that are both extremely emotional, namely a Giulia Quadrifoglio automatic from 2017 and an Abarth 595C Competizione with manual gearbox from 2019. I use the Abarth for short distances (city, B-roads, mountain trips) and the Giulia for longer distances (usually on the highway) and both perform extremely well in their own area. In terms of emotion, the Abarth is certainly not inferior to the Giulia and even superior at slow speeds. There is no problem whatsoever in terms of reliability: nothing has gone wrong with the Abarth, while the Giulia only needed a software update for the fuel pump. Oh yes, I did replace the weak battery (German made...) to avoid electrical problems. However, if I had to drive up and down to a workplace in traffic jams every day, I would not want to use either car but perhaps switch to an electric car.
For those interested in Alfa but leery, do yourselves a favor and either buy or lease a 2018 and on Giulia Ti Sport with the performance package (LSD, road dampers). I've had one for two years and it is utter bliss to drive for a relatively reasonable price (mid-40's, though I got an insane discount). Not so much as one hiccup thus far besides one software recall that took one hour at the dealer. The chassis, the handling/steering, the high-end torque, the seating position and of course the looks come together for a brilliant, brilliant car. Every single time I park and get out, I always have to turn around and look at it when I lock up. Can make a mundane errand or commute enjoyable.
I'm also a "fringe" buyer where I care about how emotive the car is and how I feel while driving it or looking at it. What's eye opening is how many people around my age (35) don't care about cars and/or driving experience. It's become a remedial chore. I think they touched upon this in the video where the enthusiasm and passion for cars has slowly been eroding in the last 10-15 years.
Think of it this way: For the giulia, the emotional gratification is immediate, while the throttle response is gradual. For the tesla, the throttle response is immediate, but the emotional gratification is gradual. Electrics started out weird to me but damn, I have a model 3 dual motor performance and by the week the thing induces laughs far more than the week before. It's hard to explain, but It's more understanding the different language that electrics use to deliver the thrills. We know where to find the excitement in gasoline vehicles, but for electrics it takes some getting used to. Now I can appreciate both. (The other vehicle is a heavily modded turbo thing running on E85)
I drove a Model 3 for my birthday, and I was very surprised on how well it handled and how great the steering was for being epas. It was a fun car to drive.
People who don't understand physics and basic economics often miss why the M3 can be such a great car... It is basicallyva mid-engined saloon, with the best consunption/economy of any car currently on sale. Yes, it is possible a Toyota can be cheaper in your 3-10 years having the car. However the Toyota ain't mid-engined...
fun compared to a Corola?
Thanks for putting this show together guys. I've enjoyed watching through the back catalogue of both the Carmudgeon and Care & Feeding shows. Very informative and the cheekiness is fun.
Hey guys just wanted to say I enjoy the videos, great job. I am a service manager at a multi line luxury car dealership. I agree during a new car lease and when a car is under warranty a tesla is cheaper to own maintenance costs are lower when they are new. The common misconception with electric cars is "I will never have to do oil changes, I won't have any maintenance". I worked for Nissan for years and electric cars are only marginally less expensive to maintain than traditional vehicles. Electric cars require brake fluid changes every two years just like traditional vehicles, alignments, tires also they are more complex. When the warranty expired on many Nissan leafs a common issue is the heat stopped working, or the a/c. The electronic grid heater box is over $2000 to repair, we don't see issues like that on regular sedans with under 100,000 miles on them, also electronic a/c compressors required for a/c costs twice as much as it does for a gas vehicle. Another common problem with electric cars in northern states is brake system rust. Most of the time the electric motor stops the car so the brakes rarely get used. We have calipers start sticking and rotors rusting that will not pass state safety inspections. Add the fact that tesla is not a reliable car company to begin with and I think ten years from now you will not be able to give away a used tesla. They know technology not how to build cars. If you want an electric car a safer bet will be an electric Mercedes or BMW, VW or Honda for instance. These car companies have been making door handles, window regulators, seat tracks ect for 50 years and know how to make things last. Teslas are falling apart during the warranty period just wait until the first electric motor gets replaced out of warranty. The cost is over $10,000 on Volvo t8 models and they fail before 100,000 miles. The idea of leasing an electric car is great but if you are going to buy one I would recommend buying from an established car manufacturer like the Bolt or audi E tron etc. Food for thought....
Might i add something: While all other manufacturers provide their spare parts to non-brand/dealership-workshops (i miss the english word for "free workshops") basically anyone who wants to buy a spare part, Tesla refuses to do so in almost all cases.
This episode was timely. I've been looking at used Guilia Ti variants for the last month. They've dropped as low as ~20K. Of course the reason I'm looking for one is that none of my other 6 Alfa run. I've got 3 164, including two 24 valves, and a GTV6 that is about to get a 3.0 12v swap. Oh, and another 4 Busso V6s as spares...It's a sickness. And, yes, I've looked at the Tesla. It's in my future...but not yet.
Good effort. You need a 166, and a 156 V6 manual. Need. You can thank me later.
A Tesla will be my next car, but rn I have a Giulia TI 2017. Got it used for 25k. I love it so much.
Update on this, fuck the Tesla. Alfa all the way. I’ve driven a model s P85D and the feeling doesn’t compare, it can do 0-60 in 3 but it doesn’t compare to the joy of my 4 cyl alfa. I didn’t expect to feel this way, but over the past year the alfa has stolen my heart.
The Quad electrics were solved when this video was done. I laugh out loud when I drive my QV. My QV is my fav car ever, over several Ferraris, AMG, BMW M, and while I still own two Porsches including a 997.2 GT3 and a 991.1 GTS I would pick the QV over everything, ever.
I know this was from 2020. But hey, most of America can't afford a $74k car. Coming from a 2008 Mazda 3 with 131k on it... So I can relate here. Love my Alfa 2021 Ti Sport and you've explained why. I was drooling over M3s. But got the Alfa instead. Totally wanted a Tesla, but I really wanted something a bit more fun. EV will be next, I'm sure. So this review was great to hear and helped justify my decision.
Great episode! I have a ‘17 Giulia Ti Lusso, ‘18 Model 3 LR, and a from new ‘92 164S.
What I really want is a Giulia with the Busso and manual. That would be sublime!
Why doesn’t the Lexus GSF come up in conversation regarding sport sedans? The NA V8, Toyota reliability and oodles of old school character.
It's really not a sports car by any stretch of the imagination.
(Personally i really appreciate the GS -as 450h! That's the right "character" for that yacht and a very appealing package.
However for a sport sedan, in the true sence of the word, there were only bmws for years [decades] until they fattened up. Luckily as of right now, the king is finally back, with the Giulietta / Giulia from the 50ies and 60ies being regarded as the first "sport sedans" and creator of this class of automobile.)
Great discussion on how Tesla capitalized on the paradox of choice. I also agree that Jason is correct about California being way ahead technologically but it's California that's killing off manual/ naturally aspirated sports cars with emission regulations.
Love that DTS cited Jonny Lieberman’s speculation that the Alfa clutch pedal cut off feet (of test dummy’s) in crash tests. JC reminded me of an article I read in 1988 where the author postulated that the then new NSX and 300ZX twin turbo ushered in a new golden age of cars that we readers would look back on and long for nostalgically.
PREACH IT !! Your best episode ever !! It's like listening to my inner most thoughts - the ones l rarely speak out loud.
I own a Giulia TI q4 ‘19 and I couldn't have made a better choice.
La meccanica delle emozioni, it’true.
As a person who’s currently shopping for a used Giulia, the wait for a fun to drive electric car that is not an isolation tank continues.
Absolutely agree w/you guys! I'll always drive a "driver's car". I own a QV Nring, and I'll try to never drive any boring cars today, including all EV's.
They not selling any because of depreciation and poor interior compared to competitors. I'm going to wait another 3 years and then buy one for 20k. I'm not worried about reliability, that's a modern myth.
I cannot... CANNOT believe this has 33k views. It should be twenty times this number.
I am with DTS on this one. I will continue to both commute to work and drive for pleasure with my 30+ year old Sciroccos, 25 year old Miata, and 15 year old carbureted sport bikes. I prefer my vehicles to move my soul, not just my body. No mere appliances for me.
Thank you Jason for being honest about the fact that you (like the majority of car drivers) oppose lane splitting because you are jealous
Alfa needs to stand out more than they already do - in typical Alfa fashion they have a perfect recipe but only cook it 90%. They need glorious na engine noise, dump the turbos, and a manual transmission. Not much else needed for the Giulia other than maybe some reliability baked in...
Jason is right that all sport sedans are the same these days. AWD/RWD, twin turbo V6/V8, various states of tune, fast shifting automatic transmissions, and lots of tech inside. They are all essentially the same.
I drive an Alfa sport sedan - lightweight, Busso V6, direct steering, manual transmission. That is the basic recipe
Manual trans in the 4C. Rich man's Miata. Who would be up for that?
@@dougrobinson8602 I would for sure. True Alfas are manual. My 155 V6 ONLY came in a manual, as God intended.
So include a manual even though less than 8% of there potential customers are willing to buy one. There is a reason why many sporty car manufacturers don't even give the option for manual anymore. It's not financially feasible.
New listener and the first 13 min of Jason translating what he felt driving into why he felt it is 10/10 good listenin.
Thanks, I love this channel!
Jason is the ONLY person on RUclips that gets to call me a dumbf@ck and I keep watching. I'm not sure why. I met him at a car show in Monterey a few years back where he was showing his MB 190 2.3 16V and he was just as much of a curmudgeon.
Hydraulic racks have had variable ratios cut into them for a long time, so when you're on center you get one slow ratio for low speed/parking/cruising stability and another ratio near the ends of the rack that's faster.
True, although as i understand it, he was not talking about the ratio, but the assistance. (how light, heavy you have to work to turn the wheel) But that also was done already with hydraulic steering. I have owned one that did that, and still own another one that has hydraulic power steering with variable assitance depending on the speed.
Love watchin these episodes but come on Jason. Torque converters are more then fluid couplings. Fluid couplings do not have a stator and thus can not multiply torque. Torque convertors with their stator provide torque multiplication right up to the point where impeller speed meets turbine speed (also known as coupling speed). At this point the "lock up" torque convertor "locks up".
Plus a DCT is NOT an "automatic transmission". DCT's are a form of automated manual transmission.
Love all the stuff you guys do. Wish you would do more "Head 2 Head" type stuff. Loved your H2H episodes! All the best to you guys and your future projects!
11:14 on the steering column as god intended 😂
That VR6 sound was shockingly good
Derek, I don't know which 2 Alfas you had just because of the Busso V6, but my Busso was not the only reason, it was the design as well. You see, a '96 GTV still looks cool and unique.
Thanks guys for those nice car talks. "Alfa is the best and the rest is shit" or "It's an Alfa or the new way of driving"...I like that kind of arguments. Rare to find (excluding AR forums). But in the way you put it, they're true.
I have a Tesla Model 3 Performance. Jason is right. I have 2013 Audi S5 Cabriolet for some fun and a 2001 BMW 540i 6 Speed for the anachronism. I have to say, I'm starting to see into the emotional quotient of the Tesla which is more subtle. Things like track mode and other factors evolve in the Tesla, the car has been becomes more individualistic. The aftermarket for this car has exploded and that is part of the emotional quotient.
shout out for Jason's always spot on engine sounds
Min 5:34: Jason, next time please in engineers german: "Wandlerüberbrückungskupplung"
I am holding onto my 2018 WRX manual simply because there is no other choice in the price range that can replace that. Manual 4door with AWD and good gas millage is very rare these days.
Why would you want a manual when yoy can get a car with one gear?
@@rkan2 you wouldnt get it.
In a comparison with the 330i Car and Driver did get 0-60 of 4.6 seconds on the Giulia Ti Sport Q4. The benefit of 93 over 91 octane gas perhaps. I recently purchased a 2020 Giulia Ti Sport Q4 and I agree with Derek's driving impression. Very engaging car easy to fall in love with - I did. The Q4 is rear drive biased and works very well in this regard. I live in the Northeast so AWD is a nice to have when the option is Rear or All Wheel drive. You can always get an aftermarket exhaust to make the experience complete.
Not sure if it's just this video, but the sound was very hard to hear. It's a talk show, I can't hear the talk. So it's just a show.
Alfa’s reputation for unreliability is the sole reason they don’t sell.
Agreed. Because they do everything else brilliantly. Doesnt stop me from summer driving a 25 year old highly strung homologation Alfa Romeo sport sedan...and enjoy every minute.
@@ChaosphereIX Yet they aren't unreaible anymore. You going off of 30 year old info. If you try to insinuate that when Alfa released the 2016 Giulia Quadrifoglio and the software glitches as unreliable then you also have to add handful of other manufacturers as well which makes your point moot. When a new platform and 1st year model is released many of the high performance salons have issues that eventually get worked out. The whole thing has been blown out of proportion which is sad since they are brilliant vehicles.
As an alfa owner of several alfas old and new i can tell you thats not true. There's just one rule. Service the car the right way. And there most people go wrong. If you do you service they are really reliable.
You're 100% right about a manual for the Giulia. I'm not buying one only because it's automatic only. I'm an Alfisti and love the Giulia otherwise.
I feel like in this new era of the next revolution of the car.The way of loving cars and even the character of the car is changing. Issue is, most enthusiasts are still clinging onto the old way and common practices. Its the mindsets that are lagging beyond, cant understand anything outside of whats already known, no intention of progression or change.
I have to say that you hit the nail on the head. These are the only two sedans that I would ever consider. I've, so far, put off swapping my manual Grand Sport for one...so far.
I’m passionate cars, and I’ve only driven manual cars all my life. I used to piss on the Model 3 Performance... until I drove it. It definitely feels like the future and it’s still fun in a more “digital” way. Bonus that it doesn’t have a transmission, so I didn’t sell out to automatics. But add in the charging at my house and no maintenance, and it’s so STUPID fast... it is the perfect daily driver even for people passionate about driving. I love tech and the Model 3 still hits my emotions. Still gonna get a Corvette Z51 convertible in the garage for the weekends when I miss exhaust notes and tunnels though...
So I have a manual E90 335i (hydraulic steering) and found that the 16:1 steering ratio felt slow. Swapped in the 12.5:1 rack from the M3. Even though the steering is heavier, having the quick ratio and the feel of hydraulic is divine. It's heavier than the M3 one would be. The M3 includes a servotronic system that adjusts assistance based on vehicle speed. So you can have adjustable assistance hydraulic steering.
I thought speed-sensing steering was common. My 370Z has it but it's a popular mod to defeat it for track or drifting use
@@dielaughing73 it probably is. Not sure how common it is in hydraulic racks. I know it was available as an option on e90's but I'd prefer consistent steering feel. You can also code the assistance curve if you have an experienced coder.
Truly honest feelings, insight and discussion. I think it can be summed up in Jason's description of the current M3 i.e. " the 3-Series can go FUCK itself". I really appreciate such visceral and succinct quantification of the vehicle, Thanks Jason.... and Derek too.
Better and better every show! Thanks guys!
This is my favorite episode ever!
Buying my second Giulia TI sport tmrw. First car was low optioned awd, this new car is fully loaded except advanced drivers assistance and rwd. LSD and adaptive dampers.
Interesting point as to why people are not buying them. I am considering an Alfa Quad as may next car. I find it interesting that when I look through the classifieds there are low mileage fairly new cars with quite a few owners sometimes as much as 4 for a car under 2 years old.
To answer Derek's question "Why would anyone buy anything but a Tesla?" Simple, loads of people live in situations where they cannot charge their car at home, and Tesla starts sending you nasty emails if you use the Superchargers too much. I live in apartments. I currently have a large garage next to my apartment, which is unusual. My garage actually has power outlets, but I have no control over the circuit breakers, and I have no doubt using those outlets to charge an electric car would get me in trouble. So no electric cars for me.
Don't spread the BS. You MIGHT get those emails, when charging your Model S with unlimited supercharging only from your closest supercharger. The Model 3 doesn't come with free supercharging, so you won't be getting those emails regardless on what Supercharger you charge. You would only get credit card charges with the Model 3.
Then again, charging with residential electricity rates is a big part of the cost savings in an EV, so it is understandable for people who cannot charge at home. Especially goes for countries with expensive electricity or cheap fossil fuels.
@@rkan2 Where did I complain about the cost? I said I have nowhere to reliably plug it in. And loads of people live in dwellings without any way to install charging equipment. You Tesla freaks always get bent out of shape about the most trivial shit. It is 100% true that they have sent emails to lots of owners about using the Supercharger too much. How is it BS if you admit that they do it? insideevs.com/news/328361/tesla-sends-out-supercharger-abuse-emails-many-model-s-owners-not-impressed/
People are definitely scared of buying the Alfa from a reliability standpoint. I brought up the urge to get one and the spam of articles people posted telling me not to buy it was insane. I'm still teeter tottering on buying one.
Alfa unreliability is an old school myth. I owned a E39 540i and it was so much more less reliable than my QV. Took the plunge on a QV last year. Just do it, you won’t regret it, if you like spirited canyon driving.
So annoying watching someone trying to tell someone that their subjective opinion is subjective when the person stating that opinion has clearly acknowledged the subjectivity of their opinion.
Next episode: Personally, I don’t get the hype that super cars such as Lambos and Ferrari’s get. Without a single manual transmission in any super car manufacturers lineup, I feel like modern super car manufacturers don’t prioritize the fun of driving anymore. I’m 13, I’ve never driven any car before, so maybe I am wrong. I’m basing my information on reviewers thoughts with a heavy bias towards Cammisa’s reviews. Most reviewers say that their mouths hurt from smiling while driving a super car such as a Huracán, but I feel like they smile because they know they CAN go fast, but aren’t ACTUAL going fast. I think that you’d have more fun in a simple sports car such as a mx5 or a Toyota 86. Could you explain to me the hype behind modern super cars?
A Balakrishnan
I can definitely see what you mean. To say that those cars are not exciting to drive because they don’t have a manual is a little far fetched, but you have a point.
Also even though you’re not old enough to drive, I feel that your opinion is still valuable just because our generation(ish, I’m 18) is going to have a huge effect on car culture.
you guys should check out mountainpass performance. they do some really cool things with tesla. No engine noise still, but drifting in silence is still pretty cool :)
4:56 fluid dynamics *and* thermogoddamnits?!
Is ISSIMI an accredited university?
On Radwood - the reason there was never a movement to older cars until now is that until now old cars (30 year old cars) were too unreliable to use every day. Now a 30 year old car has good enough engine tech to be be driven everyday.
Ironically, the best sports sedan I can think of that's not a Giulia, is the Honda Civic Si in my driveway. When I bought it at the end of '18 I was shopping for 3 months for a sporty car that had at optimally at least 4 doors. I was immediately disappointed by the BRZ/86. Ford's hatchbacks were quick but didn't feel good to drive (and the RS costs waaayyyy too much for my budget), besides Alfo Romeo's Giulia QV (which I couldn't afford) the only other place I could think of was Honda which at the time I despised. I finally gave up and test drove the only Manual transmissioned car on their lot which was a 2018 Civic Si sedan in Black (I ordered Red). I was surprised at the roominess of it being a tall 6' 3" and the practicality of the car. Big trunk, space for 5 adults (as long as the back seaters are less than 6'), a highway rating of 38mpg (currently averaging 40-42mpg/per tank) and the shifter is so much fun to row, it's light, nimble, and handles just as well as the Type R. Yes I have driven a Type R, amazing to drive, but with $1700 of wheels and tires, I know have a lighter, wider set of traction than the Type R, which performs better. I'm only missing the extra 100 horsepower which is not worth an extra $10,000.
I owned a base 2017 Giulia until recently. It was very good. I sold it only due to time for a change and my distrust of Stellantis and poor resale value. I replaced it with a GTI, now modded.
I lived with an EV for six years and I was happy to go back. I bought (as Jason suggests) a Giulia Ti Sport! I hated the long charging times, the lack of public chargers, the inability to take a road trip. Yes, I had a level 2 at home, but that cost $$ to install, and added about $100/month to the utility bill (and also didn’t work all the time). Jason’s argument that maintenance is a problem is risible. Modern cars require minimal maintenance and 5 minutes at a gas station once a week is nothing compared to driving around looking for a charger (which is often broken or being blocked by a rude EV owner who’s finished charging but can’t be bothered to move their car). Jason’s defense of EVs is really a criticism - because modern ICE cars are so bad at being engaging to drive, get a Tesla! It’s damning them as better appliances. The problem is, though, EVs are only good for commuting. Who wants to road trip only where fast chargers are? And spend an hour charging to go 300 miles?
Craig Yirush I do 400 miles with 33 minutes of charging time several times each year. Trip takes about 15 minutes longer than it did in my ICE vehicle. 🤷♂️
ZCD1 Z what fast charger gets you that much range in only 15 minutes? Engineering Explained did a 2,000 mile trip in his Model 3 using Tesla fast chargers and spent 8 hours charging (40 minutes on a Tesla fast charger to get 80%). Plus who wants to road trip only where that crook Musk decides to put fast chargers when there are gas stations everywhere?
Craig Yirush Tesla Superchargers. They push up to 150KW now, and the 250KW V3 Superchargers will be even faster.
ZCD1 Z that’s not what EE said in his recent video. But even so, still way too long for me. I can get 400 miles in my Giulia in 3 minutes at a pump. And I can do that in any small town or out of the way location. Plus it’s got steering feel, and handles beautifully, and doesn’t have an ugly tablet stuck on the dash.
Motor Trend’s experience is different than yours www.google.com/amp/s/www.motortrend.com/news/teslas-v3-supercharger-tested/amp/
Best they could do was 5% to 90% in 37 minutes.
3yrs later you still can’t conveniently drive an EV moderate distances in huge swaths of the US interior. So tired of CA or NY based journalists touting the advantages of EVs when the real answer is “not yet”.
Top notch choice with Abarth.
I found what you said about the GTI’s steering very interesting. I had a type S Acura before and I always felt like the steering was a little darty at really high speeds compared to the GTI I now which feels rock solid at very high speeds. The weird part is that the gti feels like it’s steering is just as quick on twisty backroads.
Hard not to agree with you guys on this one.
Beg to differ re. Austin. Start on sixth St and drive 15 miles in any direction and you're out of Austin and into Texas, and god knows what's out there. Fair number of Tesla's, too, and we're gonna be building a bunch of them here soon.
I agree with everything else, though, sad about Alfa's not selling
Finally, a great definitely of a sports sedan.
When you're driving your sports car, look back to see room for 3 other people, and say "Oh, that's convenient"
They are spot on about the tesla 3p. No servicing and for a tech nerd, those OTA updates are like a xmas every month! No regrets about buying one. Having said that, from a pure driving point, I’d still rate the ‘98 manual mx5 as my favourite. More fun than my last 3 series or any other car that I’ve driven
Stupid scared people....my Giulia QV is perfect, 1 year ownership and no issues, its my 3rd Alfa, none made any problems.
God I wish we got the 6 speed Manual QV alfa,
i definitely get what Derek was talking about with the trans
Such a shame that its uploaded right before im going to bed! Now i have to think the whole night about what youve talked! But now tomorrow is going to be a good day!
God I hope you lads do the episode on SUVs/crossovers. I'd be so pumped
Would the ats-v sedan 6mt not compare to the Giulia or is the way it drives too different.
Jason we need a review on the GTA when it comes out
Exactly
I feel when this was recorded the Giulia GTA wasn't announced
Absolutely have no problem with Alfa breaks
Fantastic discussion. I think you nailed the reasons people choose one type of car over the other. I'd like to see more like this
There's a couple of problems with the Model 3 - one of them is that's uglier than sin. The other is that the interior is worse. Let's hope someone that can design cars brings out an EV so we can have a good car and not have to hide our eyes when we get near it.