this is the best set ever, nowadays Mango and Armada both play way more passively, they're just fucking going at it in this set, they're both soo aggressive
i think it's mostly because it was a faar different time in the metagame man you actually got rewarded back in the day for going the fuck off lol i believe this set was the end of the 2008 hyper-active ssbm era. personally i blame ppmd for the all the lameness apparent in today's play.
Holy poop...I come back and watch this every once and a while and I still get chills every time. I'm an Armada fan myself, but I still respect Mango a ton. This is by far the best set I've ever watched, I don't think I'll ever see a matchup more exciting than these two. Too bad the commentators were completely biased and showed no knowledge whatsoever of the actual game.
Waffles is one of the best players in NorCal, and you are acting like he has no knowledge of the game lmao. And this was at a time when smash was very grassroots and every commentator was just a player they gave the mic, and those players are friends and fans and shit with each other, so of course he was biased.
My goodness what a set o_O Mango's Fox is just ridiculous, a little more practice and he'll be able to recreate SuperDoodleMan's "Adventure" >_> Big congratulations to Armada for finally pulling it off in the States. It was a well-deserved victory and I think it was a Peach's first major tournament win (?). Long live Melee.
@LethalXDSSBB to be more specific in the differences between high and over, over implies that a limit has been passed. High is simply a description of the current state compared to normal states. For instance if the speed limit was 25 and you were going 30, you are going over the speed limit, but you aren't going at a high speed relative to what we consider high speeds for a car.
@thegreatsolar "An MC usually presents performers, speaks to the audience, and generally keeps the event moving. An MC may also tell jokes or anecdotes." Dude checks out. He's not commentating bro. He didn't talk about why a set was won, break down plays, etc. He kept the crowd hyped as an MC should. Regardless of that if you have the mic you can't be saying you want one person to win over the other. If you can't see why that's wrong you might want to enter some far away events.
Just the facts: Apex 2013 Melee results: The top eight placers main eight different characters and between them used ten different characters in the bracket at one point or another. Apex 2013 Brawl results: Four Metaknights in the top six. Herp. I have NO idea what you mean by some characters in Melee being "not even playable" in the high tier when a Peach player won everything for the last two years and we had a Doc (a mid tier) in the top six.
a couple smart things from mango i noticed 1. armada wasnt used to tomahawk grab. 2. one of his last upsmashes he just stood there and let armada whiff fair for a standing upsmash. he got so used to armada typing his fairs early
Anyone notice the part where Armada 3-0'd Mango at Apex? I, too, wondered after this tournament whether Mango might still be superior overall. Then Apex happened. Mango might be able to bring it back, but right now, Armada's the best in the world. He's won two straight, and at both those tourneys he's beaten all three of the people he ever lost to in any American Grand Finals (and he has in fact 3-0'd all of them--PP at Genesis 2, Mango and HBox at Apex). Armada's the best. Accept it.
Mango's dice roll fell on Snake Eyes. Props to Armada, his greatest weapon above all others is his consistency. He doesn't falter even under the immense pressure. His hard work paid off in the best way in a very symbolic tournament. Mango I personally believe still is a "smarter" player (I use quotes because he makes reckless decisions but reads everyone better). He kind of made risky approaches and was repeatedly punished for doing ledge-to-stage Fox Phantasms- that could've shortened. GGs
@andrethefelix Another important thing to note is that Armada's percent damage remained intact at 22% as he comboed Mango to his death on his 3rd stock, which makes his comeback even more remarkable.
@AstrayChronicle Uhm, a lot of people speak to audiences. He had no part in keeping the event moving. He was commentating, not MCing. He was a color commentator, not a play by play commentator, which would probably just annoy the listeners.
My face when Armada has won more internationals than Mango. I also never said that Armada had the potential to be the best. He was the best from Genesis 2 until Apex 2013 where he retired. He also dominated Mango at Beast 3 in friendlies. Armada is the greatest player to play the game. If Mango wins the next years worth of tournaments, my opinion will change but until then Armada is greatest. A rusty Armada isn't a good indicator. Watch the EVO match, Armada's punishes were quite rusty.
He said "Some characters in Melee aren't even playable IN HIGH TIER," when results indicate that every high tier character is perfectly playable. Of course the extreme bottom tiers are unplayable. I was not talking about the very bottom tiers. I was talking about the high and high-mid tiers.
I definitely wouldn't say FD is fairest stage. It puts a lot emphasis on pure combo ability and skews matchups in favor of which character has the better combos (hence, why people would always ban this stage again IC's, who have horrendously good chaingrabs). Also, the dude talking about Falco's recovery was talking about how Peach and Samus don't die off the sides as easily as they would on another stage like Yoshi's story. FD is a really good Falco stage though. Lasers all day.
I like the reference waffles makes to PC Chris during OC3 finals. Ive always thought that Mango is a more modern day technical fox but he has the same creativity and combo ability as PC did.
Just adding my opinion into the mix: I think Mango outplayed Armada most of the time, but he also outplayed himself a little. If he changes his playstyle so he's less likely to make mistakes, he may no longer "outplay" Armada. Basically he overclocked his CPU a little too high, but a less-crashing CPU will also perform worse. He needs to learn to dynamically adjust his speed so it's higher where a mistake won't lead to death and lower otherwise.
@JCSkaggs A lot of the mindgames switch over well in both games. Melee IS a lot more technical so you'll find yourself struggling on this part a lot more. Melee to Brawl transition actually was very smooth for me but I couldn't resist just playing Melee over it.
Some people say that the crowd was annoying/they want real commentary, but for sets like these I actually really like the hype and stuff, Idk if anyone agrees with me.
@LethalXDSSBB Not sure what you think I should leave out. "Clocking" sounds like you're measuring something. "Overclocking" is the general term for increasing the clock frequency of something, which can be done both "too high" and not.
@BuIIetBiII I commented on Mango because that's what everyone was talking about, thus "adding my opinion". But if you want my opinion on Armada, here it is: I've seen him for as long as I've see Peaches. I've gotten used to it, and followed and sometimes been part of the development of his new techniques, so he can't really surprise me with anything. I can't even see what makes him so good, because all I see is a Peach that doesn't suck. His strength is being consistent with his high level play.
Because that's how peaches play. Technical skill isn't all there is to the game, and being better at it doesn't automatically make you better. Like Dark, basically. Which isn't to say Armada doesn't have tech skill, because his peach moves like a fuckin whirlwind.
@XxFS0FalcoxX LOL!!! That was funny, dude! You should do a world tour with that bit! Imagine, up there on the scene with them spotlights and everything, and you hitting it up with jokes like that. You're gonna be a star, son.
Sure I won't argue he wasn't rusty, but he still had ample time to practice. He was playing PM at Beast 3, and while PM and melee aren't the same, Armada wasn't just not touching Smash Bros. at all for 6 months.
no, and there's no reason to. it'd be like putting a limit on running or rolling. there's a ledgegrab-limit in brawl because quite a few characters have ways to safely infinite stall by the ledge, so they could conceivably get a stock or percent advantage and spend the rest of the match camping the ledge
For the record, I'm reasonably certain that Armada has said it doesn't bother or affect him, at least not anymore. And even if he hasn't said it, Apex 2012 pretty much proved it.
@ajpanton I'm surprised that you of all people would say that mango outplayed armada. You're giving armada basically no credit for winning the match and instead saying mango lost it. Armada outplayed mango thus the result
Except for the friendlis with Mango when he was in Sweden I played 2-4 games with Peach since the day I won Apex 2013 and until I started to practice for EVO which was like 2,5 weeks before maybe. So yeah 6 months is way more accurate then 2 or 3 months. Get you facts right before trying to tell people stuff about me. Don't like to sound rude but just annoyed when people just claim stuff about me without having no idea
I was actually waiting to see your input. I just think that the 2-5 weeks before EVO would help. But like you said...somewhere before, being at the top is another level none of us can feel, so can't say much.
@LahtiSuomi I'm not doubting that he was very influential in the smash scene. I also wasn't commenting on him being an amateur player or novice when it come knowing the game. I was simply saying that he was an amateur commentator. Finally, no where did I make the assertion that I could do better, that's why no one has heard me commentate.
SAKURAI, the creator, himself said the engine of Melee took more time, and was more complex, than what he made brawl into. Initially he didn't even want to make Brawl. It's not my opinion, it's a fact.
I can't get over how insane 14:15 is, power shields the Firefox, wave dashes OoS to punish
"Yeah I don't really care who wins this."
Less than 8 minutes later
"MANGO! MANGO! MANGO!"
"IT'S JUST TWO MOFUCKAS GOIN AT IT."
waffles still has the best commentary of all time, even 2 years later.
"niggas is hype"
@@BalboaBaggins’jabba the hutt ugly’
One of the greatest Smash sets of all time. I could watch these two go at it on a continuous loop forever.
Alright alright i lol'd at your pfp and username combo
"You never get to see a Fox in finals playing on point", just you wait a few years xD
20XX Hax
Elie4Elite *Leffen
***** Yeah, I think he was referring to the summer of smash, with mango winning a number of nationals, also BH4.
5:08 Did Mango seriously just shove him off the edge, force him to grab ledge, jump back on, and D-Smash?? Holy shit....
dont think he did it completely on purpose
that has to be the coolest use of invincibility ever
I do this with falco then drop shine dair
I still think this is the best set of all time
It factually is. M2K vs Shiz is 2nd.
this is the best set ever, nowadays Mango and Armada both play way more passively, they're just fucking going at it in this set, they're both soo aggressive
i think it's mostly because it was a faar different time in the metagame man you actually got rewarded back in the day for going the fuck off lol i believe this set was the end of the 2008 hyper-active ssbm era. personally i blame ppmd for the all the lameness apparent in today's play.
flyingpotato3 this happened in 2011, I think 2014 is when shit got so lame. So many laser camping Foxes.
+flyingpotato3 how are you going to blame somebody for playing optimally and wanting to win. Lmfao
i'm not placing blame i'm just calling it lame lol progress is progress i'm cool as long as ppl enjoy the damn game Abso PS
@@flyingpotato3 “I’m not placing blame” first comment literally has you saying “I blame ppmd” are you good dude?
armada's AMA made me re-watch this. too good.
THIS IS THE SET. THE BEST EVER.
Finally Armada after like 2 years you finally brought home the Gold.
I was beyond satisfied when Armada won that , Mango played well but that was a well deserved win for Armada.
especially after what happened at genesis 1 finals
Competitive smash streams now: (no cursing, professional composure)
Competitive smash streams then: GRAND FINALS, THE REMATCH, NIGGAS IS HYPE SON!
completly insane how good they were in 2011
the capture card/encoding on these videos makes really fast movements like fox's look sick
dat HomeMadeWaffles commentary XD
Glad to hear =D
Im not in school atm since I work. Will continue to study on the university in the future but not sure what path I will end up on.
I love the sentence: "oh my god! Armada!" in the commentary.
You don't have to remind god his name...
WoW, I wish this had gone to 2nd set, Mang0's fox is like one of the most beautiful things Ive ever seen
Holy poop...I come back and watch this every once and a while and I still get chills every time. I'm an Armada fan myself, but I still respect Mango a ton. This is by far the best set I've ever watched, I don't think I'll ever see a matchup more exciting than these two. Too bad the commentators were completely biased and showed no knowledge whatsoever of the actual game.
it's hype
Waffles is one of the best players in NorCal, and you are acting like he has no knowledge of the game lmao. And this was at a time when smash was very grassroots and every commentator was just a player they gave the mic, and those players are friends and fans and shit with each other, so of course he was biased.
Ah, my bad. If I had known about that beforehand I wouldn't have bashed the commentators like that. Thanks for clearing that up! :)
@nintendoluigi agree
I remember watching this on stream, the hype was outta this world.
4:00
Was that Hbox?
+Bowserslave Yeah that was Box.
+Bowserslave 0:54 IS THAT PPMD?
+Epitome of Trash™ pewpewu
Even after this summer, this set is my favorite... they just mess each other up so hard the whole time.
Even after knowing who wins, I still get chills everytime I watch this set
The best grands of all time imo
So hype , armada goat🇸🇪
brings tears to one’s eyes
My goodness what a set o_O
Mango's Fox is just ridiculous, a little more practice and he'll be able to recreate SuperDoodleMan's "Adventure" >_>
Big congratulations to Armada for finally pulling it off in the States. It was a well-deserved victory and I think it was a Peach's first major tournament win (?).
Long live Melee.
That ain't Falco
HMW pls do it again at GEN 3!!
+MLG Jake I want HMW to lose in pools just so he can focus on commentary the whole time. lol
it happened and it was great
@LethalXDSSBB to be more specific in the differences between high and over, over implies that a limit has been passed. High is simply a description of the current state compared to normal states. For instance if the speed limit was 25 and you were going 30, you are going over the speed limit, but you aren't going at a high speed relative to what we consider high speeds for a car.
"Don't Stop!" - Waffles magical words that can stop any combo dead in its' tracks
@thegreatsolar
"An MC usually presents performers, speaks to the audience, and generally keeps the event moving. An MC may also tell jokes or anecdotes."
Dude checks out. He's not commentating bro. He didn't talk about why a set was won, break down plays, etc. He kept the crowd hyped as an MC should.
Regardless of that if you have the mic you can't be saying you want one person to win over the other. If you can't see why that's wrong you might want to enter some far away events.
I've been really enjoying the recent bros that's been happening, but every time I watch this set my mind gets blown
Just the facts:
Apex 2013 Melee results: The top eight placers main eight different characters and between them used ten different characters in the bracket at one point or another.
Apex 2013 Brawl results: Four Metaknights in the top six. Herp.
I have NO idea what you mean by some characters in Melee being "not even playable" in the high tier when a Peach player won everything for the last two years and we had a Doc (a mid tier) in the top six.
@blues03 it was a USA tourney
on the West Coast
in California
pretty much everything was in Mango's favor geographically
GOAT melee set.
a couple smart things from mango i noticed 1. armada wasnt used to tomahawk grab. 2. one of his last upsmashes he just stood there and let armada whiff fair for a standing upsmash. he got so used to armada typing his fairs early
Even though he lost I think this is the best I've ever seen Mango play.
You know how everyone says a perfect Fox would be unstoppable? I think Mango is pretty close.
But Armada is just too godlike.
Anyone notice the part where Armada 3-0'd Mango at Apex?
I, too, wondered after this tournament whether Mango might still be superior overall. Then Apex happened. Mango might be able to bring it back, but right now, Armada's the best in the world. He's won two straight, and at both those tourneys he's beaten all three of the people he ever lost to in any American Grand Finals (and he has in fact 3-0'd all of them--PP at Genesis 2, Mango and HBox at Apex). Armada's the best. Accept it.
It’s not old school melee commentary unless Waff is screaming SWAG and talking to random people nearby
Mango's dice roll fell on Snake Eyes.
Props to Armada, his greatest weapon above all others is his consistency. He doesn't falter even under the immense pressure. His hard work paid off in the best way in a very symbolic tournament.
Mango I personally believe still is a "smarter" player (I use quotes because he makes reckless decisions but reads everyone better). He kind of made risky approaches and was repeatedly punished for doing ledge-to-stage Fox Phantasms- that could've shortened.
GGs
@andrethefelix Another important thing to note is that Armada's percent damage remained intact at 22% as he comboed Mango to his death on his 3rd stock, which makes his comeback even more remarkable.
@AstrayChronicle Uhm, a lot of people speak to audiences. He had no part in keeping the event moving. He was commentating, not MCing. He was a color commentator, not a play by play commentator, which would probably just annoy the listeners.
This set is just mmm. Too amazing.
Damn even all these years later this hold up super well
@jamduke i call that a shine(hits armada's shield)-->wavedash-->dash(left)-->jump canceled grab
"this mutha fuckers crazy"
"I know dude" (in a calm voice)
@Mirrorthrone68 that may be true, but considering Armada is using peach and mango is fox, they're pretty damn even
i SO wish there was a second set. this is the best freaking melee i've ever seen
@thegreatsolar
No MC is publicly funded. He was Mcing the battle.
My face when Armada has won more internationals than Mango.
I also never said that Armada had the potential to be the best. He was the best from Genesis 2 until Apex 2013 where he retired. He also dominated Mango at Beast 3 in friendlies. Armada is the greatest player to play the game. If Mango wins the next years worth of tournaments, my opinion will change but until then Armada is greatest. A rusty Armada isn't a good indicator. Watch the EVO match, Armada's punishes were quite rusty.
Who's watching after seeing Metagame? All the "new Doc" kids, welcome to melee!
It was hype as hell! Got chills with the callback to Ken vs PC from the 1st doc using the same soundtrack!
been refreshing for 30 mins to finally watch this.
One of the best melee matches I seen in a long time.
He said "Some characters in Melee aren't even playable IN HIGH TIER," when results indicate that every high tier character is perfectly playable.
Of course the extreme bottom tiers are unplayable. I was not talking about the very bottom tiers. I was talking about the high and high-mid tiers.
2:11 if mango got that upsmash we’d be talking about it years later
I swear, I've watched this shit 10 times
the peak of Melee hype, right here
I definitely wouldn't say FD is fairest stage. It puts a lot emphasis on pure combo ability and skews matchups in favor of which character has the better combos (hence, why people would always ban this stage again IC's, who have horrendously good chaingrabs).
Also, the dude talking about Falco's recovery was talking about how Peach and Samus don't die off the sides as easily as they would on another stage like Yoshi's story.
FD is a really good Falco stage though. Lasers all day.
THE PROPHECY WAS TRUE
#G3 WILL GO DOWN IN HISTORY
I like the reference waffles makes to PC Chris during OC3 finals. Ive always thought that Mango is a more modern day technical fox but he has the same creativity and combo ability as PC did.
15:17 "he deserved the fuck outta that" Agree.
Just adding my opinion into the mix:
I think Mango outplayed Armada most of the time, but he also outplayed himself a little. If he changes his playstyle so he's less likely to make mistakes, he may no longer "outplay" Armada.
Basically he overclocked his CPU a little too high, but a less-crashing CPU will also perform worse. He needs to learn to dynamically adjust his speed so it's higher where a mistake won't lead to death and lower otherwise.
Sets like this never get old.
5:07 - The mind games. That was so smart.
Man, I got like 10 heart attacks during game 5 and that's the third time I watch this!!!
I enjoy seeing the proud Mango fall to the humble foreigner.
@JCSkaggs A lot of the mindgames switch over well in both games. Melee IS a lot more technical so you'll find yourself struggling on this part a lot more. Melee to Brawl transition actually was very smooth for me but I couldn't resist just playing Melee over it.
Some people say that the crowd was annoying/they want real commentary, but for sets like these I actually really like the hype and stuff, Idk if anyone agrees with me.
I just love this set
@LethalXDSSBB Not sure what you think I should leave out.
"Clocking" sounds like you're measuring something. "Overclocking" is the general term for increasing the clock frequency of something, which can be done both "too high" and not.
0:27 "Sup dude, check this out."
"Okay..."
Taking a shot in the dark here, you main fox.
Still remains to be the coolest set I've ever seen
@BuIIetBiII I commented on Mango because that's what everyone was talking about, thus "adding my opinion". But if you want my opinion on Armada, here it is:
I've seen him for as long as I've see Peaches. I've gotten used to it, and followed and sometimes been part of the development of his new techniques, so he can't really surprise me with anything. I can't even see what makes him so good, because all I see is a Peach that doesn't suck. His strength is being consistent with his high level play.
Because that's how peaches play. Technical skill isn't all there is to the game, and being better at it doesn't automatically make you better. Like Dark, basically. Which isn't to say Armada doesn't have tech skill, because his peach moves like a fuckin whirlwind.
@XxFS0FalcoxX LOL!!! That was funny, dude! You should do a world tour with that bit! Imagine, up there on the scene with them spotlights and everything, and you hitting it up with jokes like that. You're gonna be a star, son.
2009-2012 were the greatest years of Melee.
Sure I won't argue he wasn't rusty, but he still had ample time to practice. He was playing PM at Beast 3, and while PM and melee aren't the same, Armada wasn't just not touching Smash Bros. at all for 6 months.
no, and there's no reason to. it'd be like putting a limit on running or rolling.
there's a ledgegrab-limit in brawl because quite a few characters have ways to safely infinite stall by the ledge, so they could conceivably get a stock or percent advantage and spend the rest of the match camping the ledge
For the record, I'm reasonably certain that Armada has said it doesn't bother or affect him, at least not anymore. And even if he hasn't said it, Apex 2012 pretty much proved it.
@yameritzu Yeah wasn't a shinegrab though. It was a shine to wavedash to grab.. Shinegrab normally means shine to jump cancelled grab
A beautiful rivalry was born ;( Thanks Mango and Armada
@ajpanton I'm surprised that you of all people would say that mango outplayed armada. You're giving armada basically no credit for winning the match and instead saying mango lost it. Armada outplayed mango thus the result
@AstrayChronicle He was commentating, not MCing. They're different things, and it's perfectly acceptable for him to take sides, that's all I'm saying.
Best SSB video on RUclips!
Holy shit the punish game optimization from armada, and the adaptation from both is ridiculous. I love this xD
Except for the friendlis with Mango when he was in Sweden I played 2-4 games with Peach since the day I won Apex 2013 and until I started to practice for EVO which was like 2,5 weeks before maybe.
So yeah 6 months is way more accurate then 2 or 3 months.
Get you facts right before trying to tell people stuff about me.
Don't like to sound rude but just annoyed when people just claim stuff about me without having no idea
I was actually waiting to see your input. I just think that the 2-5 weeks before EVO would help.
But like you said...somewhere before, being at the top is another level none of us can feel, so can't say much.
It's not just that they're classics, Brawl is a completely different game
just imagine a coming day when many players are at this level...
melee's like armada, never gonna give up and die lol
I LEARNED SO MUCH FROM THIS MATCH
@LahtiSuomi I'm not doubting that he was very influential in the smash scene. I also wasn't commenting on him being an amateur player or novice when it come knowing the game. I was simply saying that he was an amateur commentator. Finally, no where did I make the assertion that I could do better, that's why no one has heard me commentate.
OMG Mang0 is so good! So awesome to see Mang0 taking melee seriously!
SAKURAI, the creator, himself said the engine of Melee took more time, and was more complex, than what he made brawl into. Initially he didn't even want to make Brawl. It's not my opinion, it's a fact.
This is THE SET.
favorite set of all time for sure.
This is the hypest set in smash history , more than 400 ppl watching and screaming , I will never forget that day , best tourney by far
When Mang0 and Armada play, it's not about who wins. It's just about great Melee.