I just went to the 'desiring God' website. This is at the bottom of the page on prayer: Update: "Formerly I listed Lectio Divina as a third system for prayer. I've since removed it for the confusion it has caused. We do not endorse contemplative spirituality. The main point I'd like to recommend is using the text of Scripture as an organizer for our prayers - prayers that are exegetically faithful and gospel rich. I'm sorry for introducing the category."
Piper let his 'flesh' take over in this situation...This is a warning that even solid teachers as he is, can be lulled by a pretty face..If it had been a man or and ugly woman....Piper would NOT have had any of it!...Anyone that has the true Spirit of God can listen to her for a few minutes and know she has a 'different' spirit.
I close my eyes and picture Yoda when Todd Friel is speaking. Thank you Todd Friel, for being this to light. Thank you 310revelation, for sharing this. Grace and Peace to you and your family.
Thank you for explaining it so clearly. Many years ago I heard a teaching from Beth during our women conference in our bible church, and what she said was spot on from what I can remember and I looked up to her as she came across that all in her life is Jesus Christ. And that was and still is always my heart. How sad to find out a couple of years ago that she is a false professes. Shows you again a. John Piper... Well, again sad as what I can say as I listened to many and many of his sermons and he was at one point top on my list of preachers. Louise Giglio we have few of his dvd's which in my opinion is still spot on for sure but listening to what's actually going on at the passion conference.. Sadl a? We have to be discerning today and make sure you know scripture and know the character of God and who Jesus is a.
Piper, are you now repenting for joining with the Devil? Renounce all the teachings of Rick Warren and help contend to the faith, Praying for you brother.
Totally agree with this questioning of the mystical 'lectio' - I have never had any 'success' with this 'being still' practice. The Holy Spirit will move where and when He wills.
"Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him; do not fret when people succeed in their ways, when they carry out their wicked schemes." Psalm 37:7 "Guard your steps when you go to the house of God. Go near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools, who do not know that they do wrong.Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few." Ecclesiastes 4:1-2 For pondering
If u watch the conference on video, I feel in my heart thats why Francis Chan was there! He delivered a strong message about not following the teaching of men but putting your full Faith in God and learn the Bible so you can spot a wolf!! So plz don't put down him:)
Ever since Piper announced is relationship with Rick Warren, who is at the top of all that is going wrong with modern Christianity, I stopped listening and promoting him. Our allegiance is to God and God alone.
I'm not sure why no one ever connects this stuff with "Higher Life" or "Keswick" teaching. I think that is exactly where it is coming from, and it is alive and well in schools like Torchbearers International.
I'm by no means a cessationist, but I'm also not some crazy charismatic. God definitely speaks today. Otherwise, how does one feel called into the ministry? You just do whatever you want? We need discernment, but we also need to consider that the perfect isn't the revealed word, but a face to face meeting with Christ. How do you deal with Joel? Sons and Daughters prophesying? Is that just Apostles? Don't get me wrong, I'm not encouraging this nonsense, but the gifts still exist today.
@rjd3434 Agree 100% that God still speaks today, though ALWAYS in accordance to the word and Spirit of scripture. But the main issue and danger here is that Lectio divina is more likely to have you hearing demons instead of God!
I don't know what Beth Moore is thinking, this is not a Christian practice. It is based on eastern religions, not on Biblical principles. Jesus told us how to pray in Luke chapter 11, the Lord's prayer. I was involved in Reiki for a while to help with my health problems, but then I found out it is not of God, so I quit. Beth needs to really look at what she is doing, she is taking all the women she teaches down the wrong road
Piper introduced this Lectio Divinia to the congregation via the website. After he was bombarded with complaints, he was forced to remove this from the website. He really did not have an option since he wanted to keep the congregation intact.
The truth is also in us.. the Holy Spirit dwells in us and therefore we can retreat and encounter God in adoring silence.. i believe Towzer said that. Scripture says that we are the temple of God, as such doesnt the Holy Spirit dwell in us..
but you DONT empty your mind. Right? Why all the mystical stuff? You hear about the medical conference? Rick Warren invited 3 secular doctors that got the people doing some dark meditative stuff...Rick is Apostate. Since Piper publicly ENDORSED him stating he preaches Sound Doctrine, I have to label Piper Apostate as well.
Let's be careful here. Truth should always be revealed. Sometimes that requires pointing out the error. A wise man said your best friend is the one who tells you the most truth. If we were perfect then we'd never be wrong. Since we're not we need people that are bold and love us to point out our error. Especially if we are in a position of leadership. Praise God for faithful men deeply concerned for upholding truth. Part of growing to full maturity requires a willingness to be corrected.
agreed. Confusion here is commonplace. The revealed word of God closed with the NT cannon. To take a convicted position that spiritual gifts mentioned in 1 Cor 13 have ceased is difficult to conclusively support with scripture.
@mezzomama3 I like Piper, but honestly I think he has in the past made some real POOR choices with his discernment, this and his connection with Piper and Driscoll being my biggest peeves! Prayer and meditation in the context of what Beth Moor and Richard Foster teach is NOT biblical. We are to pray WITH our minds at all times, not empty it and then do silly mantras! I can't understand how he doesn't get that.
one more thing.. Piper still promotes Richard Foster (contemplative guru) on his website. What is Piper doing with these mystic teachers and participating with them. Then again-- why does Piper call Rick Warren his "brother in Christ"?
Agreed. [Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. - 1 Corinthians 13:8 KJV.] Prophecy cannot go beyond the Word of God. The Bible gives us future revelation. Any modern day prophets just discern what is written & see the fulfillments of what is already written. Many Christians are falling prey to devils coming off as angels of light >see 1 Timothy 4:1 KJV
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. (1Jn 2:27) And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. (Joh 5:38-40) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: (Joh 10:27)
2 Tim 3:16 "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness," now if they guy who was teaching saved by grace and not works says this why did he say it? Searching the scriptures is to learn more and more about God and his revealed word. but lets put 1 John 2:27 in context with verse 26 "These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you." Now if they have no need to be taught(is that the point you are making?) why would John bother writing against those who are trying to deceive? Also why send the disciples out to Matt 28:19-20 ""Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 TEACHING them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Idk if what you are after is how we don't need instruction or not(correct me if I am wrong) but so far if that is your point then your point is in serious conflict with scripture. Again Idk if that's your point.(all scriptures ESV use BIblehub.com to test translations differences really easy with that site)
Chase Dart I quoted three scriptures. You aren't discerning between Christ in us the hope of glory, the anointing and men. By His spirit we have fellowship. We need instruction from the Holy Spirit and from Christ. As Bonhoeffer put it sometimes it is the Spirit of Christ who speaks more loudly through my brother than in me that I need, but it is still the Spirit of Christ, and not the spirit of my brother. Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? (Gal 3:3) So based on 1 John 2:27 which man are you suggesting we should depend on as a teacher?
I thought you were saying we don't teach other. As in I need no one else God will just tell me. Like I said I didn't know your point. As far as if Gal 3:3 is at me, the answer would be no. I am saying we all depend on the Holy spirit doesn't mean other men don't still teach us under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Chase Dart Bonhoeffer's "Life Together" is excellent on the points of fellowship and the importance of when two or more are gathered together that Christ is in the midst of them. Forsake not the brethren. I know those verses too, I just am highly suspicious of people who seem to forget that God has a voice and that the Holy Ghost is actually an active comfort (better even than the physical presence of Jesus Christ) because He is inside of us. I think that in relegating the Spirit to a near triviality we are definitely grieving Him.
"Better even than Christ's physical appearance" I don't agree with that statement. The rest I completely concur with. Well except Bonhoeffer(just cause I don't know his work is all)
There are those who are saying that what Dr, Piper is doing is the same thing as Jesus, when He went and spent time with publicans and harlots. If this is so why is Dr. Piper entering into and practicing their "sin"? Namely the practices and teaching of those who are "publicans, harlots and drinkers" So ...they are saying that my questions are the same as the Pharisees Matthew 9:11.. when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, "Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?"
Leslie, how many do you think were led astray in the interim. During the time Piper supported this mystical practice, some were led astray. Pastors lead...they should not follow Satan for any period of time.
God does not tell anyone to go into ministry. He equips them with gifts of service for what he wills them to do and then gives them the desire to follow or serve in a certain area, in this case being a pastor. Anyone wait for 'that voice' is wasting their time. Further, nothing in the 'perfect' verse says anything explicitly about the second coming of Christ. It's debatable what exactly that verse is referring to.
Is Christ perfect or is the Bible perfect? The Bible has been translated numerous times in order to condescend to our human understanding. As our vocabulary evolves so does translation. There is dispute over whether certain verses should even be in the Bible ie John 7:53-8:11, Mark 16:9-20 etc.. Christ in His deity however, is the perfect representation of God. Furthermore, it would seem inconsistent in Pauls writing pattern to refer to scripture as "the perfect".
And be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable and perfect will of God. It is a true saying that satan wants to divide, but so to did Jesus bring a sword to divide. 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. 35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. 36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. 37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. I must agree with Todd in that we should not have to empty our mind, because we now have the mind of Christ having been born again by the grace of God.
"Let's pause and be still", means??? Be still...um duh.God is immutable...He doesn't change. He is always the same. NO WHERE in the Bible does it say God does not, or will not speak today. It DOES say to test things by the scripture. Be careful, Todd. God is God...omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, but NOT "all summed up" in the Bible. He still speaks...but, again, it should line up with His Word. God does not contradict Himself.
The Spirit will never go beyond His words. God's Holy Spirit is able to move you, even without speaking to a person audibly. God's Word is His voice... and His Spirit, is like the new heart God places in you. His desires become your desires, and His Spirit works in conjunction with His Word.
You are certainly welcome to make a case, and defend someone who is not acting Biblically. You can also pull any verse out of context to support something that the text does not - heretics do it all the time. However, Psalm 46 is a song written for a choir, and regarding the Jews trusting God in time of trouble. After extolling God as a refuge, His power to protect, the writer tells Israel to "be still" because "the Lord of hosts is with us". In other words, it has nothing to do with prayer!
This is wretched apologetics! Maybe, Todd, you can also remind yourself of the principle of "testimomium spiritus sancti" which is a reformation principle referring to the enlightening of the mind by the Holy Spirit to apply the word of God to the heart of the believer. I do not see a collision of concepts when these speakers encourage believers to be sensitive to this testimony of the Holy Spirit. We live in a world of noise, which requires of us to quieten our hearts to receive God's word.
You don’t know what illumination/enlightenment meant to the Reformers. It meant to them praying for God to help them arrive at the correct interpretation as they utilized the historical-grammatical method of interpretation. They didn’t empty their minds to receive info from God. They used their minds and asked God to make sure they arrive at the right interpretation. It’s apples and oranges.
Followers of Christ must be discerning. I saw something about this a few years ago and was very disappointed to see so many New Age, Hindu, etc. Elements of mysticism among these people. Super scary for all the thousands in that audience. May the Lord give discernment! A very dangerous place for those proclaiming to preach the Word of God. Nothing holy about emptying your brain. Anyone know if Piper has renounced his involvement in this?
Good grief, Todd is blowing something up so much that it distorts the reality. I was at this conference and heard Beth's sermon. It was a time of prayer she called for, through being STILL. "Be still, and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10
Come on Todd Friel. You really dont know what it means when Moore says Jesus speak your word to us and later Piper has everyone get quiet, so Jesus can talk to them? I know that you dont want to judge wrongly, but there comes a time when you call a duck, a duck. If it quacks, has feathers, swims, has a duck bill, and the DNA of a duck, you dont say that you dont know what it is. These people are doing contemplative prayer. Piper is ecumenical and this junk comes from the Catholic mystic, Thomas Merton. Case closed. Anyone that has come out of eastern religion would tell you, without a doubt, what this stuff is.
The call to share the gospel is for all of His people. God did not intend for us to live the Christian life as pew warmers. [But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. - James 1:22 KJV] Some of us may be skilled in delivering speeches, but all are able to share the gospel, wherever He uniquely places us. The best gifts are not supernatural, but any gift can become supernatural when God is the One working through you to help a soul turn to the Saviour.
That's sooo true, and PRAISE THE TRUE LORD OF HOSTS Todd is not down w/the foolishness that is 'World Religion,' or as it should be called, "Satan's Greatest Tricks!!!" A TRUE BIBLE BELIEVING CHRISTIAN runs far, far, away from the traps of lucifer by ALWAYS praying and teaching THE LORD'S WILL ABOVE THEIR OWN FAULTY DESIRES!!!! "Keep it Real Todd!!!"
its one thing to scrub the words from your website and say "i dont endorse contemplative prayer" but it's quite another in action to actually promote it in practice which piper is doing. Walk doesnt match the talk in my opinion. i feel piper has engaged in intellectual dishonesty
Todd, do you really think John Piper advocates reading the word in a non-cognitive manner without employing sound Biblical hermeneutic? I am not a devotee of Piper but I rather doubt he would assent to this view if he were given the chance to clarify his statements. What is wrong with stilling the mind. The mind can be so "noisy" that it is hard to hear the Holy Spirit speak: 2 Surely I have composed and quieted my soul; Like a weaned child rests against his mother, My soul is like a weaned child within me (Psalm 131:2). The Psalmist was full of turmoil. He was afraid, confused and his thoughts were racing but he stilled the noise and rested in God.
Todd -- God is talking to you every day, and you are not listening. You keep going to your bible which was written by men and not God and you think you are hearing God's word in a document which was translated from one language to another four times. It is not the original document.
I saw the videos and yes you are wrong my brother. They were not asking revelation but illumination. Plus these brothers are out there making disciples and you're show is worst than legalism. It is not Christ Exalting its "you exalting" sorry, but I think instead of encouraging people, you create division. You need to focus on Jesus and not everyone's way of worship. Put you're eyes on the author and not the sheep!!
it seems every preacher is false according to Todd. Just about every preacher. This is what keeps me from watching Christian TV and to be honest, this is what is driving me away from Christianity altogether. Who do you trust? who's Church teaches the truth according to Todd? I give up. I give up religion altogether. Maybe all religions are wrong about God and all are man-made including Christianity.
You giving up the faith because of that? If so your faith is in people and not in God. When you dont understand something study the Scriptures and see what the preachers of the past believed. The truth is still the truth no matter what you believe. To me the truth is clear i study the Scriptures and compare what i believe to men of God.
People have read the Bible and still come out with some weird doctrines. If there's only one Holy Spirit why are so many denominations and so many opinions about The Bible? You think I would be just one if there's only one Holy Spirit and one God and one Bible. Why so many denominations? And he stunk nomination thinks they're the true one above the others. Like the Church of Christ didn't leave believing musical instruments because musical instruments are not mentioned in the Bible. And I think I've heard some say that the Church of Christ that they're the only true church.
Robert Moore This is my opinion when I say read the works of others who lived before you and who live right now who teach God's word, you know there were other Christians who lived and taught the Bible. They were confident in what they believed. So learn of them, I will give you some preachers to read and listen too because I learnt of them, John MacArthur, R.C. Sproul, George Whitefield, John Calvin, Steve Lawson, J.C. Ryle, Jonathan Edwards, John Owen. Now you may not agree everything they said, but they certainly study the Bible more they were and are men of God. Why are there so many denominations? Because some thought infant baptism wasn't correct, so then Baptists came etc.. the main point is they all agree on the main part which is the Gospel, the Gospel is all about salvation (Romans 1:16) Doesn't matter which church you go too, the false ones out there even they have differing views. If someone says they are the true church it is a good chance they are a cult, Mormons, Roman Catholics etc..
Todd are you a not Head , he also speaks to us in a smatl voice this is were yo need to stop talking n listen, try it you might like it , the Holy Spirit Will speak, Listen you might get It Hebrews 1:3
dan amo His sheep hear his voice , don't listen to what others cant do, do what Jesus said you can do ,Hear Jesus talk, still small voice, It is wonderful,
dan amo I didn't say you don't hear ,Iam saying you can hear ,you are a Christian , you can , Jesus loves us to hear his voice , Just like when my mother would call me on the phone I knew who it was , we practice the presence of God it will line up with what his word says yes, yes test it, practice hearing from God
I love it. This guy is like the 'Bill Nye' of Apologetics. Thanks for posting.
I just went to the 'desiring God' website. This is at the bottom of the page on prayer:
Update: "Formerly I listed Lectio Divina as a third system for prayer. I've since removed it for the confusion it has caused. We do not endorse contemplative spirituality. The main point I'd like to recommend is using the text of Scripture as an organizer for our prayers - prayers that are exegetically faithful and gospel rich. I'm sorry for introducing the category."
They all do that, show their error then scrub, till the next little erosion is noticed.
Piper let his 'flesh' take over in this situation...This is a warning that even solid teachers as he is, can be lulled by a pretty face..If it had been a man or and ugly woman....Piper would NOT have had any of it!...Anyone that has the true Spirit of God can listen to her for a few minutes and know she has a 'different' spirit.
She wasn't the only one doing it.
@@Theranchhouse1 Piper has also led other Christians astray by doing this!!!
I admire how John Piper was humble enough to confess his mistake and to repent publicly. I find that most pastors are unable to do this.
I close my eyes and picture Yoda when Todd Friel is speaking. Thank you Todd Friel, for being this to light. Thank you 310revelation, for sharing this. Grace and Peace to you and your family.
Thank you for explaining it so clearly. Many years ago I heard a teaching from Beth during our women conference in our bible church, and what she said was spot on from what I can remember and I looked up to her as she came across that all in her life is Jesus Christ. And that was and still is always my heart. How sad to find out a couple of years ago that she is a false professes. Shows you again a. John Piper... Well, again sad as what I can say as I listened to many and many of his sermons and he was at one point top on my list of preachers. Louise Giglio we have few of his dvd's which in my opinion is still spot on for sure but listening to what's actually going on at the passion conference.. Sadl a? We have to be discerning today and make sure you know scripture and know the character of God and who Jesus is a.
Piper, are you now repenting for joining with the Devil? Renounce all the teachings of Rick Warren and help contend to the faith, Praying for you brother.
Because some of us aren't interested in supporting BAD theology. Todd isn't bringing anyone down either
Totally agree with this questioning of the mystical 'lectio' - I have never had any 'success' with this 'being still' practice. The Holy Spirit will move where and when He wills.
WOW! Thanks for this truth!
"Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him; do not fret when people succeed in their ways, when they carry out their wicked schemes." Psalm 37:7
"Guard your steps when you go to the house of God. Go near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools, who do not know that they do wrong.Do not be quick with your mouth, do not be hasty in your heart to utter anything before God. God is in heaven and you are on earth, so let your words be few." Ecclesiastes 4:1-2
For pondering
If u watch the conference on video, I feel in my heart thats why Francis Chan was there! He delivered a strong message about not following the teaching of men but putting your full Faith in God and learn the Bible so you can spot a wolf!! So plz don't put down him:)
Ever since Piper announced is relationship with Rick Warren, who is at the top of all that is going wrong with modern Christianity, I stopped listening and promoting him. Our allegiance is to God and God alone.
Thanks for your bold stand. I was CURSED by a church member for labeling Piper APoSTATE. He publicly ENDORSED Rick Warren, a known apostate.
I'm not sure why no one ever connects this stuff with "Higher Life" or "Keswick" teaching. I think that is exactly where it is coming from, and it is alive and well in schools like Torchbearers International.
And this was fantastic, thanks. Will share
I'm by no means a cessationist, but I'm also not some crazy charismatic. God definitely speaks today. Otherwise, how does one feel called into the ministry? You just do whatever you want? We need discernment, but we also need to consider that the perfect isn't the revealed word, but a face to face meeting with Christ. How do you deal with Joel? Sons and Daughters prophesying? Is that just Apostles? Don't get me wrong, I'm not encouraging this nonsense, but the gifts still exist today.
@rjd3434 Agree 100% that God still speaks today, though ALWAYS in accordance to the word and Spirit of scripture. But the main issue and danger here is that Lectio divina is more likely to have you hearing demons instead of God!
I don't know what Beth Moore is thinking, this is not a Christian practice. It is based on eastern religions, not on Biblical principles. Jesus told us how to pray in Luke chapter 11, the Lord's prayer. I was involved in Reiki for a while to help with my health problems, but then I found out it is not of God, so I quit. Beth needs to really look at what she is doing, she is taking all the women she teaches down the wrong road
+Karen Stephens Thank God you got away from Reiki!!!! Stay with what is biblical my sister!!!
Pastor Piper denounced Lectio Divina.
Piper introduced this Lectio Divinia to the congregation via the website. After he was bombarded with complaints, he was forced to remove this from the website. He really did not have an option since he wanted to keep the congregation intact.
Many (most?) of those leaving negative and hateful comments have a real issue with discernment . . . or lack thereof.
Maybe it is you. Lol
BTW-- Piper did not state that. someone who works for him did.
What happened to Drunk in the Spirit-- watched it two times it was amazing sorry they took it down. You are amazing!!!!
The truth is also in us.. the Holy Spirit dwells in us and therefore we can retreat and encounter God in adoring silence.. i believe Towzer said that. Scripture says that we are the temple of God, as such doesnt the Holy Spirit dwell in us..
but you DONT empty your mind. Right? Why all the mystical stuff? You hear about the medical conference? Rick Warren invited 3 secular doctors that got the people doing some dark meditative stuff...Rick is Apostate. Since Piper publicly ENDORSED him stating he preaches Sound Doctrine, I have to label Piper Apostate as well.
Let's be careful here. Truth should always be revealed. Sometimes that requires pointing out the error. A wise man said your best friend is the one who tells you the most truth. If we were perfect then we'd never be wrong. Since we're not we need people that are bold and love us to point out our error. Especially if we are in a position of leadership. Praise God for faithful men deeply concerned for upholding truth. Part of growing to full maturity requires a willingness to be corrected.
I was lead to the truths of Reformed theology because of Piper.
He is a good Brother!
He since removed it and that's encouraging!
but how many did he lead astray
OH BOY! Do you hear yourself? Follow the truth of GOD'S WORD not truth of the Reformed theology, dear brother!
If God still speaks today than you better start adding to the his already revealed word in the Bible
agreed. Confusion here is commonplace. The revealed word of God closed with the NT cannon. To take a convicted position that spiritual gifts mentioned in 1 Cor 13 have ceased is difficult to conclusively support with scripture.
@mezzomama3 I like Piper, but honestly I think he has in the past made some real POOR choices with his discernment, this and his connection with Piper and Driscoll being my biggest peeves! Prayer and meditation in the context of what Beth Moor and Richard Foster teach is NOT biblical. We are to pray WITH our minds at all times, not empty it and then do silly mantras! I can't understand how he doesn't get that.
@PursuingTHETruth12 Thanks for posting this
one more thing.. Piper still promotes Richard Foster (contemplative guru) on his website. What is Piper doing with these mystic teachers and participating with them. Then again-- why does Piper call Rick Warren his "brother in Christ"?
The Church in the US is bringing in 'eastern' tares. 1 Joh 4:1
Be loyal to no one except Jesus Christ. There are many fantastic teachers, but no matter what, you still have to be careful.
The fact that it's debatable kinda makes the point for me... if it's debatable, it's not nearly as clear cut.
Agreed. [Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. - 1 Corinthians 13:8 KJV.] Prophecy cannot go beyond the Word of God. The Bible gives us future revelation. Any modern day prophets just discern what is written & see the fulfillments of what is already written. Many Christians are falling prey to devils coming off as angels of light >see 1 Timothy 4:1 KJV
well said
@MsHannelore Paul Washer is good but he's NOT for the faint of heart! He's pretty hard core
Amen. Sola Scriptura
But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
(1Jn 2:27)
And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
(Joh 5:38-40)
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
(Joh 10:27)
2 Tim 3:16 "All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness," now if they guy who was teaching saved by grace and not works says this why did he say it? Searching the scriptures is to learn more and more about God and his revealed word.
but lets put 1 John 2:27 in context with verse 26 "These things I have written to you concerning those who are trying to deceive you." Now if they have no need to be taught(is that the point you are making?) why would John bother writing against those who are trying to deceive? Also why send the disciples out to Matt 28:19-20 ""Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, 20 TEACHING them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."
Idk if what you are after is how we don't need instruction or not(correct me if I am wrong) but so far if that is your point then your point is in serious conflict with scripture. Again Idk if that's your point.(all scriptures ESV use BIblehub.com to test translations differences really easy with that site)
Chase Dart I quoted three scriptures.
You aren't discerning between Christ in us the hope of glory, the anointing and men. By His spirit we have fellowship. We need instruction from the Holy Spirit and from Christ. As Bonhoeffer put it sometimes it is the Spirit of Christ who speaks more loudly through my brother than in me that I need, but it is still the Spirit of Christ, and not the spirit of my brother.
Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
(Gal 3:3)
So based on 1 John 2:27 which man are you suggesting we should depend on as a teacher?
I thought you were saying we don't teach other. As in I need no one else God will just tell me. Like I said I didn't know your point.
As far as if Gal 3:3 is at me, the answer would be no. I am saying we all depend on the Holy spirit doesn't mean other men don't still teach us under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
Chase Dart Bonhoeffer's "Life Together" is excellent on the points of fellowship and the importance of when two or more are gathered together that Christ is in the midst of them. Forsake not the brethren.
I know those verses too, I just am highly suspicious of people who seem to forget that God has a voice and that the Holy Ghost is actually an active comfort (better even than the physical presence of Jesus Christ) because He is inside of us. I think that in relegating the Spirit to a near triviality we are definitely grieving Him.
"Better even than Christ's physical appearance" I don't agree with that statement. The rest I completely concur with. Well except Bonhoeffer(just cause I don't know his work is all)
There are those who are saying that what Dr, Piper is doing is the same thing as Jesus, when He went and spent time with publicans and harlots. If this is so why is Dr. Piper entering into and practicing their "sin"? Namely the practices and teaching of those who are "publicans, harlots and drinkers" So ...they are saying that my questions are the same as the Pharisees Matthew 9:11.. when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, "Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?"
"Is the truth inside of us? No that's Oprah."
He did remove it from the website
Leslie, how many do you think were led astray in the interim. During the time Piper supported this mystical practice, some were led astray. Pastors lead...they should not follow Satan for any period of time.
God does not tell anyone to go into ministry. He equips them with gifts of service for what he wills them to do and then gives them the desire to follow or serve in a certain area, in this case being a pastor. Anyone wait for 'that voice' is wasting their time. Further, nothing in the 'perfect' verse says anything explicitly about the second coming of Christ. It's debatable what exactly that verse is referring to.
yeah. I like Paul Washer but there are times that i hesitate to click on his message. He has message though that are gentle ^^
Many do not like John Piper! Something in his delivery and defender of tongues turns me off
Is Christ perfect or is the Bible perfect? The Bible has been translated numerous times in order to condescend to our human understanding. As our vocabulary evolves so does translation. There is dispute over whether certain verses should even be in the Bible ie John 7:53-8:11, Mark 16:9-20 etc.. Christ in His deity however, is the perfect representation of God. Furthermore, it would seem inconsistent in Pauls writing pattern to refer to scripture as "the perfect".
And be not conformed to this world: but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable and perfect will of God. It is a true saying that satan wants to divide, but so to did Jesus bring a sword to divide. 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. I must agree with Todd in that we should not have to empty our mind, because we now have the mind of Christ having been born again by the grace of God.
+kdpsengine5 Yes!!
"Let's pause and be still", means??? Be still...um duh.God is immutable...He doesn't change. He is always the same. NO WHERE in the Bible does it say God does not, or will not speak today. It DOES say to test things by the scripture. Be careful, Todd. God is God...omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, but NOT "all summed up" in the Bible. He still speaks...but, again, it should line up with His Word. God does not contradict Himself.
The Spirit will never go beyond His words. God's Holy Spirit is able to move you, even without speaking to a person audibly. God's Word is His voice... and His Spirit, is like the new heart God places in you. His desires become your desires, and His Spirit works in conjunction with His Word.
I’m an non Calvinist that likes John piper
You are certainly welcome to make a case, and defend someone who is not acting Biblically. You can also pull any verse out of context to support something that the text does not - heretics do it all the time. However, Psalm 46 is a song written for a choir, and regarding the Jews trusting God in time of trouble. After extolling God as a refuge, His power to protect, the writer tells Israel to "be still" because "the Lord of hosts is with us". In other words, it has nothing to do with prayer!
Todd = MOG
Charles John man of God?
@astherrien That's problem...there is none
This is wretched apologetics! Maybe, Todd, you can also remind yourself of the principle of "testimomium spiritus sancti" which is a reformation principle referring to the enlightening of the mind by the Holy Spirit to apply the word of God to the heart of the believer. I do not see a collision of concepts when these speakers encourage believers to be sensitive to this testimony of the Holy Spirit. We live in a world of noise, which requires of us to quieten our hearts to receive God's word.
You don’t know what illumination/enlightenment meant to the Reformers. It meant to them praying for God to help them arrive at the correct interpretation as they utilized the historical-grammatical method of interpretation. They didn’t empty their minds to receive info from God. They used their minds and asked God to make sure they arrive at the right interpretation. It’s apples and oranges.
Followers of Christ must be discerning. I saw something about this a few years ago and was very disappointed to see so many New Age, Hindu, etc. Elements of mysticism among these people. Super scary for all the thousands in that audience. May the Lord give discernment! A very dangerous place for those proclaiming to preach the Word of God. Nothing holy about emptying your brain. Anyone know if Piper has renounced his involvement in this?
Good grief, Todd is blowing something up so much that it distorts the reality. I was at this conference and heard Beth's sermon. It was a time of prayer she called for, through being STILL.
"Be still, and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10
then why did she not just say the words...LETS PRAY?
Come on Todd Friel. You really dont know what it means when Moore says Jesus speak your word to us and later Piper has everyone get quiet, so Jesus can talk to them? I know that you dont want to judge wrongly, but there comes a time when you call a duck, a duck. If it quacks, has feathers, swims, has a duck bill, and the DNA of a duck, you dont say that you dont know what it is. These people are doing contemplative prayer. Piper is ecumenical and this junk comes from the Catholic mystic, Thomas Merton. Case closed. Anyone that has come out of eastern religion would tell you, without a doubt, what this stuff is.
The call to share the gospel is for all of His people. God did not intend for us to live the Christian life as pew warmers. [But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. - James 1:22 KJV] Some of us may be skilled in delivering speeches, but all are able to share the gospel, wherever He uniquely places us. The best gifts are not supernatural, but any gift can become supernatural when God is the One working through you to help a soul turn to the Saviour.
That's sooo true, and PRAISE THE TRUE LORD OF HOSTS Todd is not down w/the foolishness that is 'World Religion,' or as it should be called, "Satan's Greatest Tricks!!!" A TRUE BIBLE BELIEVING CHRISTIAN runs far, far, away from the traps of lucifer by ALWAYS praying and teaching THE LORD'S WILL ABOVE THEIR OWN FAULTY DESIRES!!!! "Keep it Real Todd!!!"
its one thing to scrub the words from your website and say "i dont endorse contemplative prayer" but it's quite another in action to actually promote it in practice which piper is doing. Walk doesnt match the talk in my opinion. i feel piper has engaged in intellectual dishonesty
I like, respect, and have learned from John Piper, but I must say this is some weird stuff. I dont know of any scriptural basis for it either...
Ya but Christians do not make fun of other Christians. Period.
Todd, do you really think John Piper advocates reading the word in a non-cognitive manner without employing sound Biblical hermeneutic? I am not a devotee of Piper but I rather doubt he would assent to this view if he were given the chance to clarify his statements. What is wrong with stilling the mind. The mind can be so "noisy" that it is hard to hear the Holy Spirit speak:
2 Surely I have composed and quieted my soul; Like a weaned child rests against his mother, My soul is like a weaned child within me (Psalm 131:2). The Psalmist was full of turmoil. He was afraid, confused and his thoughts were racing but he stilled the noise and rested in God.
Todd -- God is talking to you every day, and you are not listening. You keep going to your bible which was written by men and not God and you think you are hearing God's word in a document which was translated from one language to another four times. It is not the original document.
Yea I heard about all that. The whole event is a pointless washout of bad theology for kids who don't and probably never will know any better.
Passion is a Christian event man. Do not b Judgemental
I saw the videos and yes you are wrong my brother. They were not asking revelation but illumination.
Plus these brothers are out there making disciples and you're show is worst than legalism. It is not Christ Exalting its "you exalting" sorry, but I think instead of encouraging people, you create division.
You need to focus on Jesus and not everyone's way of worship.
Put you're eyes on the author and not the sheep!!
+Jorge Hernandéz you are so wrong. Open your Bible.
it seems every preacher is false according to Todd. Just about every preacher. This is what keeps me from watching Christian TV and to be honest, this is what is driving me away from Christianity altogether. Who do you trust? who's Church teaches the truth according to Todd? I give up. I give up religion altogether. Maybe all religions are wrong about God and all are man-made including Christianity.
You giving up the faith because of that? If so your faith is in people and not in God. When you dont understand something study the Scriptures and see what the preachers of the past believed. The truth is still the truth no matter what you believe. To me the truth is clear i study the Scriptures and compare what i believe to men of God.
I have a novel idea for you. "READ THE BIBLE." Then you can tell them what the Bible says, and what true faith is.
People have read the Bible and still come out with some weird doctrines. If there's only one Holy Spirit why are so many denominations and so many opinions about The Bible? You think I would be just one if there's only one Holy Spirit and one God and one Bible. Why so many denominations? And he stunk nomination thinks they're the true one above the others. Like the Church of Christ didn't leave believing musical instruments because musical instruments are not mentioned in the Bible. And I think I've heard some say that the Church of Christ that they're the only true church.
Robert Moore This is my opinion when I say read the works of others who lived before you and who live right now who teach God's word, you know there were other Christians who lived and taught the Bible. They were confident in what they believed. So learn of them, I will give you some preachers to read and listen too because I learnt of them, John MacArthur, R.C. Sproul, George Whitefield, John Calvin, Steve Lawson, J.C. Ryle, Jonathan Edwards, John Owen.
Now you may not agree everything they said, but they certainly study the Bible more they were and are men of God.
Why are there so many denominations? Because some thought infant baptism wasn't correct, so then Baptists came etc.. the main point is they all agree on the main part which is the Gospel, the Gospel is all about salvation (Romans 1:16)
Doesn't matter which church you go too, the false ones out there even they have differing views. If someone says they are the true church it is a good chance they are a cult, Mormons, Roman Catholics etc..
Robert Moore
I personally like Paul Washer, Tim Conway, Justin Peters, Gary Demar, and John MacArthur.
Todd are you a not Head , he also speaks to us in a smatl voice this is were yo need to stop talking n listen, try it you might like it , the Holy Spirit Will speak, Listen you might get It Hebrews 1:3
***** whos demonic vision? God is good
dan amo His sheep hear his voice , don't listen to what others cant do, do what Jesus said you can do ,Hear Jesus talk, still small voice, It is wonderful,
dan amo I didn't say you don't hear ,Iam saying you can hear ,you are a Christian , you can , Jesus loves us to hear his voice , Just like when my mother would call me on the phone I knew who it was , we practice the presence of God it will line up with what his word says yes, yes test it, practice hearing from God
Amen sorry thought u were speaking to me God"s love to you!!!!
+dan amo Amen Dan!! Stand my brother and pray for those who do not see...