INEOS Grenadier Potential Engine Drawbacks | Are The BMW Units Fit For Off-Roading?
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- In this video we will be going over some of the potential issues the Ineos Grenadier might have with the BMW engines. Both engines are great units but there might be some drawbacks we will need to work around.
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So happy to see you make this video snd I think you are BANG ON POINT Sir !
Ever since Ineos released the information regarding engine choice I’ve been calling from the tree tops about the plastic engine parts, of particular concern to me was the plastic water pump /thermostat.
I already own one German VAG vehicle that has a plastic water pump & thermostat in it &!it’s a common fail point. I don’t mind taking the risk on my little town blasting shopping cart but on my bi-annual jaunt across the harshness of Australia, I’m not so sure I want that sort of liability.
In my VAG vehicle it’s the sort of thing I monitor weekly & I know that sone folks get 70,000-80,000km before it becomes a problem & others only 30,000km. 🤦♂️
* It’s not the sort of thing I want to replace “just in case” on my vehicle preparations prior to travelling from one corner of Australia to another.
Another issue for me is fuel capacity & the apparent lack of space to address this issue with no. Existent aftermarket accessories.
THANKYOU for making this RUclips clip 👍🏻
Just as I thought another Land Rover Defender expensive ,unreliable and costs a fortune to maintain and repair .
Both Engines are flourished everywhere. Even aftermarket part performance are available for improvement if you need.
Also the transmission is bulletproof already, you could improve your shift points.
Yes, I agree
Cant wait for the 1000HP big turbo B58 Grenadier builds
Was thinking the same when I made the video 😂
What about the newer Chevy V8s ? Maybe with some retuning for lower end torque.
A heavy vehicle (2.5 tons+) is always going to be served better by a larger, lower revving unit.
Have you seen the latest Toyota V-6 Turbo used in Land Cruiser? It has as much or more plastic engine dress parts as the B58. People...the days of all metal engines without complicated plastic emission-control parts (valves, pipes, hoses, intakes) and cooling systems are long gone.
And hence reliability blows goats 🐐
Valid point mate.
I have seen many range rovers and 3rd gen discoveries that have the v6 diesel that have had issues with the plastic thermostat housing finally giving up the ghost and them getting stuck on the road because of it and i'm not even a mechanic i was just by the shop for oil changes, plastic parts on the engine is good on paper bad in reality especially if someone wants to keep their car for a long long time
Yes, exactly
Yes. However the BMW engine has a far better long term reputation that the Ford V6 diesel that was fitted to Land and Range Rovers and now Ford Rangers, briefly also F150. These V6 engines have an unacceptably high crankshaft failure rate.
The beemer motors are pretty robust and like Land Rover units made to accommodate off-road angles and heat issues.
But I would have loved to see them go with an Isuzu power plant .
Nothing robust about plastic timing chain tensioner guides, plastic water pump impellers, plastic hose connectors, plastic thermostat housings etc.
I’m a BMW guy, I’ve got an E46 and I love them. They’re not made for off road use.
Are you aware about how unreliable JLR products are these days?
@@mtadc1545 and that’s been confirmed on the Ineos?
What’s JLR got to do with it? As far I knew Ineos didn’t source one item from them other than a silhouette .
You raise some real issues about these engines but they have some runs on the board - 1997 to 2001 Defenders built in South Africa had a 6 Cylinder BMW engine option ( also in 328i and 528i ) and is much sought after by collectors - but i think the Grenadier will become a real competitor to ( especially ) the Toyota 70 series which are insanely overpriced
Yes, for sure. I think the Grenadier looks promising so far.
Bmw parts are readily available in southern Africa ( nambia, botswana & South africa. Morroco. Furthermore, most bmw for Australia uk are built in South Africa.
Please do your research than assuming.
So you are suggesting that you can find parts for a brand new B58 in the middle of nowhere in Africa? I don't think so. In more populated areas you may be able to but those are not the parts I am talking about.
Very balanced common sense. Of course a Toyota motor would bring Toyota's reputation for reliability - they simply don't make mistakes in this respect. It seems to me the Supra straight six would have been a great choice... Hang on, didn't Toyota make exactly the same engine choice as Ineos...? Ok, ok they don't expect a Supra to be bashing along hundreds of kilometres of corrugations in a day but I do expect they did their homework and I'm sure Ineos did too.
Yes, that is a great point! I should have added it in the video
like the inline I-6 good point on parts av U.S. easy to find ,so Africa not so easy
Every engine these days have plastic parts. The Ford line of pickup trucks. from Ranger to F150, F250, F350, F450 as well as Ford Raptors all have plastic oil pans and plastic oil plugs. They work well, They don't crack if struck by a rock. Very strong stuff.
Give it time--heat and plastic are natural enemies
From Australia, this is one of my only concerns with the IG.
I would love to know what, if any changes, did Ineos request of BMW for the IG following their heat testing.
Do you have a feel for the life of the plastic thermo housing etc?
You referred to the B58 using plastic in the water pump, what about the B57?
Could you imagine you’re out doing the Canning Stock Route and you have some plastic cooling system part fail and then you’re stuck with a fked head gasket.
They should have gone with either Isuzu 4JJ or Cummins!
I have said it before that the engine will be the downfall for this vehicle.
They are built in a Mercedes factory and Mercedes makes a superb modern and competitive 3.0 straight six engine in both petrol and diesel variants. Mercedes also make a very reliable and smooth nine speed automatic gearbox. Therefore is would surely have made far more sense to dump the BMW/ZF drivetrain for the Mercedes equivalents as soon as they acquired the use of the Mercedes factory.
Almost most every engine made has a plastic intake. This is not new technology.
Not really. I have three cars and all three of them have steel intakes. It is more common on new engine thought.
@@TheUntraveledPath Yes new engines. LS V8s have them. They go for 300k+. Vortec has had them since the 90s. Volvos BMW Mercedes all since early 2000s. A BMW straight six is dead on reliable. 200k+ easy. These are great engines and a great choice for a 4x4
@@bp9749 The fact that the last for 300k doesn't mean they never have issues with leaking or cracked plastic parts. However, this is only an issue that will occur when the cars age
The real test is not mileage to failure but, due to the likely duty of many Grenadiers, the number of engine hours design life. This will be known to BMW but not many others. Cars generally have a design life under normal family use of about 150,000 miles. High mileage examples, regularly serviced, will likely last to higher miles. Basically around 5000 hours only. Heavy truck engines, in contrast have a design life between overhauls of around 15,000 hours or 400,000 miles at a reduced average speed. Grenadier engines and transmissions really should have a drivetrain rated for at least 12,000 hours in my opinion at an average speed of 25mph, giving a potential life of 300,000 miles before failure. I doubt whether the BMW unit is built for that, while towing 3.5 tons and offroading intensively. The Land Cruiser 4.2 turbo diesel certainly was/is.
The Land Rover Ingenium engine is at least as good as the BMW. As you say, the BMW is potentially compromised long term due to excessive and unnecessary use of plastic for critical components, which may well be fine and dandy for a relatively short lived passenger car but will surely fail long term and need replacing at a high mileage overhaul due to chemical and physical degradation.
I prefer to use V8 engines like nissan or chevy or hemi engines
This guy has nothing new to say.
I agree that these are good choices. The only better choices might have been Ford engines and 10 speed transmission. The 2.7L V6 EB, the 2.3L |-4 EB, or the 5.0L V8 would have been good petrol options, and the 2.0L |-4 or 3.0L V6 diesels would have worked and Ford's hybrid system with onboard power would have been phenomenal.
Mercedes are the common sense alternatives, especially considering they build the vehicle in a Mercedes factory.
@@hedydd2 agreed, and they are a partner on a Mercedes F1 team. That either says a lot about pricing or reliability. Likely both.
It sounds like they are partnering with Hyundai on their Hydrogen Drive system so maybe they just get what they want and don't take what is given to them like other companies do.
@@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080
It probably says more about the inflexibility of the Grenadier design team which had settled the major component suppliers and probably signed contracts before they decided to pull out of the UK in favour of the Mercedes factory location. They have made many massive mistakes before launch and the Bridgend debacle and their choice of BMW/ZF rather than Mercedes/Mercedes drivetrain are two of the most obvious. Other factors have combined to extend the customer first delivery date by two full years, which would have been catastrophic for most manufacturing companies, but not for the Ineos pet project. Thank goodness for that, or we would not have this interesting vehicle at all.
Well @@hedydd2 it sounds (..."probably signed contracts"...) a bit, like you are just a jaded Brit that doesn't know what they are talking about.
First. If they stayed with Brigend they would still be 2 years from having a plant that was up and running. Then they would have to train all new staff. This would have set their first delivery back by 3 more years and the quality would have been cr@p for another 2 years after that. The French/German plant saved the company time and money while allowing them to get revenue of £1,250,000,000 per year (that is £1.25 Billion with a B) for at least 2 years. They will also now be competitive for military contracts in Europe. F-Brexit!
Second. BMW/ZF is the perfect combo. Tried, true and without competition. The transmission is used by everyone from Jeep to Rolls Royce. Mercedes already has their engine and transmission in the G Wagen. We know this BMW drive unit is good enough to meet Toyota's standards because they use it in the Supra which like the Grenadier also uses Magna-Styre engineering and construction. This could also allow Ineos to build a B-Wagen varient for BMW in the future to be sold at BMW dealers. And maybe a Puch varient to be sold to the French Government.
I'd be willing to bet that by the end of 2024 Ineos Automotive will have a monthly revenue equal or greater the JLR, if JLR is still in business then.
U/P. A 'Grenadier' from Ineos is only being marketed in Western markets ! Maybe the other option is the newer Hydrogen powered version, which is probably better in ROW markets ? V.
It will be sold in Australia, Europe, South Africa, and the USA. So all the major markets are included
😣 *PromoSM*
New Land Cruisers have even more plastic!