Extended Small Diameter Threading Using a DIY Follow Rest.
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- This video shows the components, installation and use of a home made follow rest for extended small diameter threading. This is the setup for the cross slide screw used on the EL-1 mini lathe. Take a Look !!
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I always enjoy your videos. I must say that when you take a busman’s holiday you don’t mess around.
Unfortunately, I couldn't go anywhere either.
Using phenolic was a win, it gave the thread a finish that larger diameter pieces obtain and it supported the piece flawlessly. I wonder if it will burnish steel just as well.
I'll find out next week.
kinda dishonest of them using an image of a different end result to sell this kit. (the museum build vs what is in the box and instructions) point against them, they need to fix this.
A lot of people do it. I watch a lot of yacht videos, and car videos and a lot of them say at the beginning that products may be shone with optional equipment. But you are right they should put some kind of disclaimer.
@@barryfields2964 Yes, the 'fix' is either a clear disclaimer associated with the image or include the parts in the kit and instructions. Or release 2 kits, one with, one without, and use the appropriate art for each.
Let's face reality, not all the kits will be complete to the same standards, that is if they will be completed at all. Who is good at this will know how to improve and give it his final touch, be a dial or whatever else. If you really want to bash the manufacturer it should be about including that horrid toolpost socket screw.
@@jdm2651 Right, but the art selling the product either needs to display the product being sold as packaged, or mention that the art includes features not included in the kit. That's just a basic of advertising laws.
Hi joe, I would have never believed that little attachment out of phoenelic would have worked but that's perfect and easy to make also...hats off to you joe.
1:40 dials? You're selling yourself short, imagine installing a tiny DRO.
1890's period correct DRO.
@@joepie221 Lol, fair enough.
Although so you're aware, there are actually some very tiny scales available; some of renishaw's scales come stock only 6mm wide, and if needed they can even be cut down to only 3mm and still work.
@@AJMansfield1 very compact at those widths but being Renishaw I bet they're very expensive.
I only have a little Sherline lathe, a consumable follow rest is highly beneficial. I've been using a scrap ⅛ carbon fiber rod with awesome results.
Clever, Still impressing me. Thanks for showing.
I have the same Clausing lathe, always wondered what those two counterbored and threaded holes were for. Now I'll have to make that follow rest. Thanks for sharing.
Great set up and implementation Joe, very useful material Phenolic, especially the Linen based type, brand name here in the UK is "Tufnol".
Thanks for sharing and keep dry.
Very nice setup. Your part looks great. Thank you for sharing your thought process on how to make this part.
I really like steady rests, I don’t think the get enough love in the machining world.
Both types can really make life easier.
I really liked Myforboy's rest with the bronze bushes for small screws from some years ago. Just cat skinning though...
@@joepie221
The regular kind get used a lot more. I know I've probably used a regular type 100 times for every time I needed to use a follower. Probably more than 100 times. The only bad thing about steady rests is set up wrong the roller type can pull the work right out of the chuck. But that usually happens because some body is using a three jaw that runs out.
Curious...why wouldn’t the stock follow rest work, tips too large? and require modification? Enjoyed the video and the various lessons...tks
My tips are 3/8" in diameter. To set it up like the manufacturer intended, 3/8 will be the smallest size you can do. I suppose you could offset or modify the tips, but then you'd have the mass of the aluminum frame to deal with. For a collet, I wanted to be right up against the nose piece of the machine.
@@joepie221 If you wanted to use the factory "Follow Rest" to support a long thin piece (bigger than the one in this demo) cutting RH threads with the inverted tool wouldn't you want to modify the factory device somehow to provide some support from underneath ? ... Or have you already done this in another video that i somehow missed ? Thanks for all the tips
Nothing beats a little support And that is a "Little Support." Well thought up Joe. No wonder why you named yourself Advanced Innovations. Ooh~Rah.
Nice threads....! That phenolic follower rest was a great idea, good material for that also.
Thanks again Joe for sharing your time, talents and knowledge.
A side-by-side "Bad v Good" closeup would be appreciated. I also expect a follow-rest on the nano-lathe :D
BTW thank you for sacrificing that virgin brass rod to the machine gods for the benefit of human kind and knowledge !
3:15 A cousin of mine has a lathe made in vienna,brand new only 118 years old -that lathe has right screw.It took me so long time to adjust to it ,i had to make 2 arrows with sharpie on a peace of paper so i can know which way to turn the dial and not to dig in the knife in a material.
Then when you go and work on a "normal" lathe its a wierd feeling that everyting is in reverse now.
First viewer? That's a true honour, Sir. Your videos are really inspiring, thank you for sharing! I've forwarded your method to square up a piece in the milling machine to a friend of mine who teaches machine shop practice in a technical school: he'll start teaching that method to his students too!
THat was a great video.
Oh there will be dials... Ha ha I would not have expected less from you Joe. I really like this Micro lathe build.
The guys at the company had obviously never been asked that question before. I'll have to modify a few things, but they will be present.
Threading unsupported 3/8” rod towards the chuck yields catastrophic and down-right dangerous results! Thought I could get away with it...nope!
"Catastrophic failure" - Yup, had more than one of those. All of them due to 'operator error' as a function of ignorance and inexperience. These videos help minimize, (but not eliminate), the likelihood of future 'catastrophic' failures. Thank you.
Nice job Joe but why not just make a Phenolic piece to fit the steady follower that you already had ? Phenolic here is very expensive - would be cheaper in alloy tooling plate.
You da man!! Thanks Joe!
I always learn something from your videos! Greatly appreciated!.
Cool solution Joe, the phenolic material is awesome stuff. I have been wanting to see some small diameter threading like this for a long time. Your actions answer a lot of questions I had, thanks and cheers!
Are you going to make a tap for the female threads, or do you already have such an animal?
I bought the tap. Thats how I made the little barrel I checked the thread with.
Always thinking, a true machinist.
very nice follow rest. something the cnc world forgets about sometimes.
Good to see you this Sunny Sunday Joe. Good on the brass dial. It just wouldn't look right without it. This threading was just perfected by Joe Pie, , , A TRUE MACHNIST. Almost 50 years as a machinist I have never even tried or considered a thread on this this small of a diameter. WELL DONE FELLA ! Looks like another win on teaching folks again. Thanks, eh teach !
🎉🎉😎🎉🎉....... it’s all about the preparation and planning
I wonder how many machinists get home from work and watch Joe machine things
Excellent ! One to be filed in the old memory bank . Thanks to the internet sometimes when I get stumped, I just go back through your old video’s and wa-la there it is ! Thank you !
Another J.P Brilliant idea.
Love your channel - really superb work.
Thank you very much!
That was a sexy setup!
Is the LE Phenolic material a common in Machine Shops? I found that material in my Granddaddy's shop 20 yrs ago and have been curious of that. Finally, I now what it is! That is some good stuff.
Phenolic and hard wood make good supports for machine work. With a dab of grease they make servicable bearings for polished shafts running at moderate speeds. Just the thing for crank and lever assemblies with moderate loads and intermittent use, e.g. a lever assembly to raise and lower a motor to change belt speeds.
Cheers from NC/USA
Sometimes working with metal is just too complicated. With wood and a long spindly part that starts to chatter and jump around you just grab a handful of sawdust and grab the part, stabilizing it with your hand. (Sawdust is mostly just to keep from burning yourself and act kinda like a lubricant)
Thanks for another great video. I have now cut my very first screw , non standard dia of 2.40mm and French lingnes pitch for an antique clock. It took a few tries and I have a long road ahead, machining is addictive and I can't stop.
I've been in the trade over 30 years and have never had a job to do that required a follower rest. Go figure. As much as we all hate dies, a 5-40 thread was always a die job for me. Your demo here was magic. Thanks
This is a godsend for me! No steady rest available for my mini lathe so I'm making this tomorrow. Thanks for posting Joe, I'm confident this will save me a lot of swearing and frustrtion.
Terrific solution for a problem production part. Thanks, Joe
Not quite what I expected when title said DIY, even 'temporary' parts look good.
I thought you may make just a 'finger with a half hole' for traveling steady, not complete arm.
I've machined a lot of 'Tufnol' in the past but only vaguely remember something about formaldehyde being released if you get it too hot?
As always, an interesting video
Another top notch episode! Always enjoyable, technics and explanations!!
Without a center or a follow rest, that would be like goosing a wildcat with cooked spaghetti.
I think a live center in the tailstock would still produce a barrel. Small at both ends and big in the middle. It makes me wish I still ha a metal lathe.
They asked one of the old time comedians what sex was like after 80 - His reply:
"Its like shooting pool with a piece of rope" Har!
say have to do 1/4" diam OD A2 steel part 6" long. have 1 step to make. Will this do it or use PC of 6061 with brass bushing? I have a bunch to do.
That diameter, using that material over that distance will be tough. Some steady, or follow rest would be a good idea. Warpage may also be a problem to watch out for.
A2 is tough. Your best chance of success would be a .251/.252 reamed hole in the phenolic with the threading tool a little to the right of the follow rest. Take light cuts with a little oil.
Thanks Joe. Always learn something when I visit.
Overall this is great content, and geared to different levels of experience (proving that the rod needed to be supported). I understand that the follow rest may have been a quick & dirty build and I'm sure you have considered these two mods
1) do away with the threaded plate & pot threaded inserts into the LE. Because if would be a lot cleaner.
2) counter bore the standoffs & groove the bolts. Use some spirolocks to retain the hardware- because I get clumsy sometimes & don't want to fish parts out of the tray.
The endmill in the collet to make the seat is a nice touch. Someone trying this in steel might want to reverse the spindle back into position because any burs can eat away the support.
I always find your vids well done & thank you for the ideas. I have formal training, but as always, I am still "stealing" the trade after 30 years.
We had the same weather here in West Virginia. Ice then snow and then ice on top like yours. I was without power for 12 days. Our temps were in the 20's. Now we have rain and scattered flooding.
Glad to see you survived all the weather and that you are back to making the mini lathe!
Aren't lead screws supposed to have ACME threads? 😁
Fantastic idea for the steady! Are you going to make the nut adjustable for backlash?
Believe it or not, I've considered splitting the nut just for that reason.
I'd love to see how you would go about doing it!
@@joepie221 I do believe you.
Linen phenolic is a great substitute for metal but dislike the fine dust and pee smell when cutting it.
So, I have been trying to make a fixture to do EXACTLY this. My approach was / is more complex, and more importantly, doesn’t actually work. So I’ll be making one more like the one you have here. Again - thanks Joe. Great info and very much appreciated.
Have to say I was a little disappointed Joe. I fully expected that 1/8" bar to take on the shape of a hex wrench during the first 5 thou cut. I was just waiting for the "See... I told you so" comment but it never came. Apparently you can't screw up even when you try. 😰 😁
I was shocked it didn't walk up and over and snap off. Very shocked. Maybe if it was out farther.
Can't beat the support with that! right opposite the cutter! but I was surprised that you didn't drill in place for the support arm mount holes as well; where they out of reach of the cross slide travel?
Solid mounted to the carriage, there is no way to move the frame inline with the lathe spindle. If it was mounted to the cross slide, then you could.
@@joepie221 aha yes! My mistake.
Thanks much for such great videos.
“If you choose not to find joy in the snow, you will have less joy in your life but still the same amount of snow.” Of course I'm from New England; in '78 blizzard it took me a day and 1/2 to get home from boston.
I'm from NJ, so bad snow storms don't scare me. Difference is, I was always prepared for them. Next time it snows up there, don't touch your shovel, snow blower or drive the 4x4 and you'll feel like a Texan. And just cheer when the mayor says all the snow plow trucks will stay home cause the roads are bad.
Oh yeah. This is good.
Excellent job Joe. Really nice threads, maybe Phenolic (or Tufnol as we call it over here) has a use as a burnishing material for cleaning up all single point threads, now you got me thinking! Cheers, Jon
Clever trick. Clean threads with no burs is a bonus 👍😊
Always the goal.
Great information, as usual! Thanks Joe!
Amazing demo! I will add this to my tool box.
It's the setups that are my main interest, the recent built model steam engine was especially interesting as Quin used different approches and now Aide is offering yet more variations, much of course depends on facilities available and I'd likely do at least some things otherwise. As ever Joe entertaining and educational content, it also comes over how much you are enjoying thse type of builds. many thanks.
Finally Joe... waiting with such excitement other video on this project... thank you.
What a great idea! Been using following rests for years! Never once thought of using a sacrificial rest point! Now I do and I'm going to redo several marginally acceptable projects. Thanks Joe for turning on a light for me!
I like the "Here's just something I knocked up this morning" attitude. Your temporary tooling puts most of our finished efforts to shame. A good shape for the end of a travelling steady like that is a simple 90 degree corner notch, with one horizontal leg and one vertical. This touches both the top and back of the workpiece and resists both the vertical and horizontal components of the cutting force. A steady of this form requires a vertical adjustment too, though.
Absolutely am going to make that follower. Great video, and can't wait to see those adjustable dials you are going to attempt. I thought it might be to hard to make on mine.but did think of making them just for show( not actually working) . I'm looking forward to the outcome.
Good video Joe. I learned the threading away from the headstock method in another of your videos, that is a GREAT method! Thanks so much!
This was amazing. I'd expect the phenolic to burn up. Love these tips!
What a brilliant solution, well done sir!
I like how smoothly the collar unloosened when you tested it :)
Very good, thanks for keeping this project rolling along.
Well that trick was worth the price of admission! Thanks Joe.
Like that follow rest - the phenolic is useful stuff. Great result. :)
The initial demo proved a point for sure and I too was surprised the part didn't climb onto the insert!
You are a brave man trying to thread that tiny part over the bed of your lathe. I would have dropped it so many times it wouldn't be funny.
I single pointed 2-56 threads on the oil cups for the steam engine. A 5-40 felt big.
Do you mean to say it's not an Acme 🙄 Everytime I hear Acme the first thing that comes to mind is Wily Coyote doing something boneheaded. And yes I know what acme means. A follower rest isn't something you use a lot but when you need one. You really need one. Cutting or even chasing long threads is certainly one case where you need one. Now this will most likely go on the shelf and gather dust for while.
Another option is to make a special bar for the follower rest you already have. Who knew. Something one of the el cheapo bench top lathes have an advantage at.
I considered using my regular one and making a custom finger, but didn't go that way for 2 reasons. 1. Its just too big and won't allow me to get right up to the face of a collet, and 2. That would mean anyone watching a video about that trick would also have to have a follow rest to utilize what they just watched.
@@joepie221
Oh, I completely understand the why. And I appreciate the, let's call it excuse, to make a bit of special equipment. I suspect if jobs like this came your way a lot you would have used a different material than the Micarta for the follower body. That stuff can be nasty health wise to work with.
Joe: a miniature thing of beauty. I suspect that the attachment would work for diameters of one quarter or three-eighths as well.
The arm is 1" wide, to allow for bigger stock.
Expertly done as usual. I really like that follow rest. At first I was wondering what the heck you were up to with that arrow point.
By the way... Is there a reason - other than you didn't want to - why you didn't choose to "run a die up this"? Your tutorial was great, and it needed an example, but I was wondering if there was some specific "machining" reason for not wanting to thead that rod with a die.
Regular die cut threads can wobble, run out and exhibit drunk conditions depending on how they were done. This is going to be a lead screw and I am a big fan of single point threads. I just feel the application deserved a higher quality thread than a die would offer. I'm sure a die would work, just my personal preference.
@@joepie221 Are you going to make the actual lead screw out of steel rather than brass?
@@brianwarburton4482 Absolutely.
Thanks.
12/22/2021
As I watch this series of videos, II am discovering that a large amount of tooling, jigs, and other assisting things must be made first.
This sends you, Joe< past being a machinist into the world of "tool and die" making, something at a much higher level of skill and knowledge.
I have only seen, myself, two other men who rose to this level, you are the third. I set here totally amazed. ;-)
Many thanks for the compliment. Tooling and work holding has always been a favorite part of this trade for me.
I've been a tool and die maker for over sixty years with my own shop the last twenty. You're correct that it's a higher level of skill. A doctor and a surgeon would be a good comparison.
My Man great 👍 machinist.
Awesome work you are doing 👏 👍 😀
Hi joe, don’t fall in your swimming pool when it looks like that!
That water is so cold, it hurts. It is a heated pool, just not at the moment.
Nice pool you’ve got there joe, must be great being able to sit by your pool with your family after a busy day in your workshop.
I love these tricks.
Thanks Joe -need to make myself a follower
I endorse all of the laudatory comments Joe. You are a force for good, in the machining world. From Oz.
Thank you very much.
I really like the idea of milling the support in place.
The phenolic linnen composite seems like an ideal material for a sacrificial follow rest. It does not melt and it is actually a pretty good bearing material with a little thin oil absorbed in it. I am somewhat surprised that it seemed abrasive.
Think of it this way. If he needs another follow rest like that he's almost definitely going to be turning something a little bigger. He could use the same rest and just put a bigger hole in it. Love videos like this.
That's a great tip! You could also have drilled a hole in some tube and milled it down halfway and supported from the tailstock.
I believe I've seen that done. Clever.
I did something like that when I machined the thread off the end 40mm of a 50mm long M4 x 0.7 stainless steel machine screws turning them into shafts for steam valves on a miniature steam engine.
Good thinking.
Hello Joe,
Nice work today... the follow rest worked very well indeed...
Take care.
Paul,,
very interesting indeed . Les England love it .
That's a neat thingy, Joe. I made a more conventional one for one of my lathes that has two tiny "fingers" specifically for running small diameter long stock, but I like yours better. It's easily adaptable and making up new finger blanks for future different size stock would be a quick matter. I reckon you could use a good hardwood for this too, do you think?
On the matter of this terrible global warming (???), I know folks down Texas way must have freaked out with 8" of snow. I'm in north-ish ID and naturally everyone here has a 4WD vehicle and chains for all four tires. It's completely different for you guys. Who has chains in TX? Or even 4WD on every vehicle the family owns? I felt bad for the older folks who were without electricity and needed heat. Hope things are getting back to normal.
Thanks for another fun vid. I did expect that little rod to roll up over the threading tool and mess up your carbide. Surprised it didn't. That's a nice tool, BTW. You can really get close to a shoulder with that little jobbie.
Take care,
Dean
Keep these gems coming! I finally got my Sherline 4410 CNC lathe operational & I used your razor blade trick not only for the Z axis when parting, but on the X axis for zeroing a boring bar to do an inside profile. Glad y’all thawed out. Hope you and yours are doing well. Thanks again!
could you, 'just for fun', have left it a bit 'tight', and used some polishing/grinding compound to get it 'airtight' ?? Just being goofy ;-) I guess that you could have also applied a bit of oil to the phenolic, which really hands on to lubricant? I wonder, also, I guess that you could make a pretty aggressive first pass, while the material is still nominal diameter, and smooth, do that it is a 'perfect fit' in that milled slot??
Nice, nice mechanism! Maybe I should make one for my tiny Lorch lathe, as it is often used for very small material, and small diameter threading. Thanks for another entertaining, and enlightening, video :-)
I've made a lot of Acme threaded shafts. Many different lengths/diameters. Way too much fun with the follower! But, I've never seen one that small. Good job! I like it!
Impressive, as always. Quite simpel but working nicely. Replacing the standard brass jaws in my follower rest this technic can be used even here. Thanks for the tip!
That storm you folks need never, ever have happen again to you folks for sure. As soon as we found out about it on the news I was thinking about all my friends in the Austin area. Many more could have died as a result of it.
Hey Joe great idea, how thick is the phenolic that you used?
1/2" ..... 12.7mm
Love that phenolic follower rest. The polishing effect is a bonus I didn't expect. Now I have to see if I can make one for my Jet 12x 36.
Joe, phenolic is definitely abrasive and probably burnished/polished the thread tips. We used to use phenolic (not cotton/linen reinforced, the "other kind" because chromic acid _loves_ to eat cotton -- just ask several pairs of jeans that I _used_ to have) as insulators on plating racks at work and the Toolmakers building the racks (nearly always "prototypes") complained about how their drills & end mills wore when cutting it. I'll definitely keep this tip in my toolbox for future use!
Hey Joe, thanks for another masterclass, i was thinking how to support it but you were already doing it! Regards from Wales. 4.45 am again Joe. Damn, lucky I got a fairly late start today
Now you’re just showing off.
You are a better man than I sir.
I have the 15” version of your lathe. These models are just too small. I don’t enjoy it.
That was fun!
Absolutely outstanding as usual. Love seeing your work. Thank you for your contributions to the machining community.