Great Video! I‘m also an software engineer in my early career. I enjoy it currently a lot but deep down I know there is more after some more years. One question to you: why did you go to realestate and not something like software sales? Since there you would be ahead of all those other salesmen that do not know how engineering actually works. I‘m considering this path currently for my future. Whats your opinion?
Great question, and it's one I certainly could have done, but I was already building houses on the side when I decided to make the switch, so it aligned with the other real estate development I was already doing. I also worked in the OEM group at Microsoft for some time and there were sales people there, but it had a huge drawback in that the buyer pool was limited. There are only so many OEMs to buy Windows licenses. So if you are going into software sales, be sure you know the funnel. With housing the funnel is effectively unlimited. It is so large that you can't really take more than 1-2% of a given market and that is enough to consume all of your time. It all depends on what you are selling. If you are selling a $1,000 software license, your commission is likely just a few hundred dollars, so you have to sell a lot of them. If you are selling 6 figure software packages, different story, but how many buyers are there for that software? When you thing of a house, it's a 6 figure purchase, and there are a lot of buyers. So the supply demand works out quite well. The market of agents is also really large, so you have to perform at the top 20% of that pool to do well, but that applies to just about everything. An outlier would be that you are selling something very expensive and bespoke that only you know well enough to sell, but then you have a single point of failure if that goes away, whereas houses are not likely to go away. So yes, I could certainly have leveraged my software knowledge to sell software, but it just so happens that my side gig of building houses made it more aligned to sell them too. Plus my wife got into it and now its a family biz, so lots of good feels there. Thanks for your comment!
I’m currently a software engineer surveying the sales landscape, and where I might fit in. Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m looking forward to checking out your channel.
Thanks for checking me out William, it's certainly not for everyone, but I forced myself to do it about 3 years ago now and am glad I did. Best of luck in your journey!!
How has your experience been? The nice thing about sales is that it works pretty much in any industry but it's something you have to enjoy. It's not for everyone.
@@BuildingTimeFreedom It's been awesome so far. Switching from a more reasearch based train of thought to a more commercial mindset has been a whole process on its own.
Thanks for this video John. I would really be happy if you made part 2 where you depict the path in more details, like your first sales role and if you stayed at the same company or started somewhere new.. Thank you!
I went straight into real estate sales, which in retrospect was probably not the most optimal path. I may have done better in enterprise software sales since I had that skillset. The downside of something like that is there are a smaller number of buyers. So you need to ask yourself what is the size of pool of clients x average commission and then figure out how many people are trying to get business from that pool. Then ask yourself if you can be in the top 20% of that pool.
I am 20 Years Old completed my Class12th and was confused between what Carrier to Go For and I am now Totally confident For Going into That Is Sales ( I mean I kind of Love it ) Thank You Very Much John😊 Love From India 🇮🇳
No I just started doing real estate on the side for years before I switch over full time. I mostly did partnership deals with other investors until I learned how to do them on my own.. My whole purpose was to not have a job, so now I work fully in sales and development of my own assets.
I am a civil engineer with a solid/secure job, but I believe I am good with communication and negotiation with others. So a friend of mine is offering me to do sales for their company selling insulation (foam insulation and batt, also drywall work as well) So what is your advice and opinion about this career change and how to react? Right now I am trying to do it part time but I am browsing my path for full time I am living in Canada
You have to look at the market opportunity for that product and ask yourself how many sales you would have to make to make the money you want. Is it 50 sales 100, 150? Then ask yourself if you would be willing to do the work of contacting enough people to make those sales. Also one of the best parts of sales is building relationships that will serve you for the rest of your life. Are the relationships you will make selling that product empower the future you want or are they one offs that you won’t see again? What I love about real estate sales is that I develop relationships that are fulfilling and end up being investors in the projects I do. Over time that list gets bigger and bigger which allows me to do more and more deals.
@@JohnSBlackman John really appreciate the time you took out of your day to reply my questions. In long run I see all these connections very useful since they mostly contractors and later I am looking into real estate sales as well so I would say they can really help, in addition to getting to know trade people in all categories so if I want to start some building myself I can do it... This friend of mine will says with 10% commission our of dales I need 4 sales in a month with average size jobs to make what I make now. Well my current job is a government job and secure with 100k a year, so that's why I am really trying to be some how sure what I am giving up and what gaining, although I know that's the risks that coming with sales job or any business.
@@Feri9 sales tends to be cyclical. You won't likely make 4 per month. You will end up making 2 one month and 8 the next, so plan for that and save for lean months. I would aim for 8 a month so if you fall a little short you are still making more than your previous salary job. Most sales people don't make that much, but the ones who really treat it like a business and are motivated make a LOT more.
I am a Sr. Consultant who works with the Microsoft tech stack and I too am getting kind of fed up with this career path. I'm sick and tired of being tied to my desk 40 hours a week billing clients. I want flexibility now that I am spending more time on getting in shape and doing outdoor activities. I want to earn more money for my time spent. About 2 years ago I investigated the idea of being a real estate agent and I actually got into the rental game a little bit, but I liquidated everything and gave up on the realtor dream and moved across the country. Maybe time to rethink my prior strategy. Thanks for sharing your story. Subscribed / checking out your other videos now.
Mica, thanks for sharing your experience. When I was younger I was of course into video gaming and landed my dram job in the Xbox Live group. It was a terrific experience and as a 20-something I loved. Of course age came along and gaming became more of an industry and less of a passion and I started to value the same things you do. Becoming a real estate agent was not natural to me at all. The first year was really tough, and the failure rate in the industry is over 80%! It's hard for many engineering types, but I do think they can excel with investors because of their pragmatic and numbers based approach.
In general the numbers agree based on your performance. However if you can perform in the top 5% of realtors you will make much more. My income went up 6X after becoming an agent, but it took me 2 years to build the business to get there.
I really liked that video specially that it’s related to my situation after my recent graduation in computer engineering major and got my 1st full time job as customer experience officer in marketing department at a tech academy! My previous 4-5 years was all focused on tech, computer engineering, programming, and everything related to programs and game development field as I took on aside of my bachelor’s study many courses in programming to taste all kinds of fields available in my major + got many part time jobs during my university years that took me into operations, marketing, and leadership roles. It’s been 3 months since I started my current full time job and it seems it’s taking me more to sales and customer engagement roles and career path which for now am comfortable with and happy with them, BUT am really concerned is this exactly the right thing am going with and started my career with or I’ll be regretting not going with IT and tech jobs and starting my career there?
Presently an R&D EE. Lately, thinking about all of the stress that I can be positioned in. Wondering if the pay is worth it. Wondering if I should build a little cushion of cash over next 5 years and then transition into a role like Sales Engineer for the products that I'm designing. But, I also wonder if the feast or famine reality of Sales Engineering is worth the physical stress that can accompany it. What are your thoughts for a person in my position? I want financial freedom. Pure engineering may not be the path that gets me there. What's more, talking can be difficult when I get into stretches of time where I am immersed in work or a technical problem. It's as if the language region of my brain smoothens and I lose my access to words, as I've been silently thinking about the logical and mathematical and visual components of my job. I also find myself second guessing in the middle of a sentence, just due to my engineering mind wanting to fact check constantly. My charisma takes a dive due to my matter-of-factness. I become kurt. How did you (or would you) address this problem?
Well as an engineer you are probably pretty good at building models. So model your income in your current role, how much you can invest, and how long it will take you to get where you want to go. Ask yourself if that is ok. Switching to sales can be very tough for us engineering types. It's a people business and the accuracy component is less necessary. If you approach sales with an engineering mindset, you can get pretty predictable ratios. How many leads can you generate per day/week/month? How many do you talk to? How many of them end up needing your service and have a real conversation with? How many close a sale? What is the median sales commission. Once you have this formula you can predict your income pretty well. What remains is how you want to spend your time. Do you want to do it doing the things required to make the sale or building the product? A lot depends on what you sell too. Selling say fight control chips to one of 3 major airplane builders is a very limited market. You only have 3 buyers so the formula is pretty limited. Selling real estate is very liquid and you can readily find more clients so you can grab more market share. So for me, I know my contact to close ratio for selling real estate. I can pretty well predict how much money I want to make based on tracking my own numbers. Hope this helps.
thank you John, I am thinking like you now, I want to get into business to reach financial freedom and wanted to be able to sell to people and influence them and this video inspires me to do so
It can be a great switch, but its way more personal and less technical. I think it can be super fulfilling, but be sure to do the math on how many sales you can make and how much time it takes to connect with those clients to get the sales you want. You can take an engineering approach to sales which is very powerful and most sales people don't use. So you can leverage your existing strengths. Good luck!
Hey John, I only see this one video on sales engineering, do you still see this as a good transition for people in the engineering field? How long did you do the engineering sales before you transitioned into real-estate full time?
Hey Bill, I never actually did any engineering sales. I just went straight into real estate sales, but only after I had done many transactions using other sales people for many years. So I got more familiar with it and didn't jump in cold turkey. Doing sales was a big mindset shift, but it has afforded a lot more opportunity and leverage than my engineering role did.
Just out of curiosity, what top 5 engineering sales fields or areas would you recommend (like HVAC vs maybe large farm equipment) Considering ability to weather recession, future sustainability, fields that are more apt to maybe to base+commission and of course some consideration of salary levels but not only compensation?
That's kind of an impossible question. It really depends on your values and what you want out of a sales position, more safety (base + commission) or more high income potential (pure commission). Ideally you want something with a high sales price, good commissions, and something everyone will always need for the foreseeable future. This is why I chose real estate. It grabs all three and it's a huge portion of the GDP. You just have to run the formula Time to acquire lead * probability of success * average commission, then work backward to how much money you want to make. Liking what you sell also helps.
Yea, engineering sucks. Engineers are just a commodity to most companies. They stick you in a cubicle instead of in an office because you're dirt. When things slow down, companies stop new product development and lay off their engineers to save money. Engineers are the first out the door. Sales is the engine that drives a company, so they get to stay. Companies almost always pay engineers on a salary basis, which is the green light for companies to have you work overtime and not get paid for it. The devise schemes like "we need to meet a show deadline" to work you 60 hours and pay you for 40. Companies claim that they can't find American engineers so that they can justify bringing in foreign workers on H-1b work visas. Engineering is the worst.
I totally get your frustration. There is this point where you realize a company will go one without you and doesn't really care that much if you work for them or not. Labor markets shift in favor from employers to employees for a variety of reasons. Lately employers have had a hard time keeping good people so wages are going up, especially for engineers. Companies optimize their resources and sometimes that means firing. It's like the scorpion and the frog, it's in their nature. I do agree with you that good sales people are stickier than engineers unless the engineer is critical to the success of a revenue generating product. So you have to go become *that* engineer or a sales person that makes more money for the company than they are paid. Thanks for watching, and I really appreciate your comment. Keep on taking the next step my friend.
![Twenty One Pilots - “The Line” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/E2Rj2gQAyPA/mqdefault.jpg)
Great Video! I‘m also an software engineer in my early career. I enjoy it currently a lot but deep down I know there is more after some more years. One question to you: why did you go to realestate and not something like software sales? Since there you would be ahead of all those other salesmen that do not know how engineering actually works. I‘m considering this path currently for my future. Whats your opinion?
Great question, and it's one I certainly could have done, but I was already building houses on the side when I decided to make the switch, so it aligned with the other real estate development I was already doing. I also worked in the OEM group at Microsoft for some time and there were sales people there, but it had a huge drawback in that the buyer pool was limited. There are only so many OEMs to buy Windows licenses. So if you are going into software sales, be sure you know the funnel.
With housing the funnel is effectively unlimited. It is so large that you can't really take more than 1-2% of a given market and that is enough to consume all of your time. It all depends on what you are selling. If you are selling a $1,000 software license, your commission is likely just a few hundred dollars, so you have to sell a lot of them. If you are selling 6 figure software packages, different story, but how many buyers are there for that software? When you thing of a house, it's a 6 figure purchase, and there are a lot of buyers. So the supply demand works out quite well.
The market of agents is also really large, so you have to perform at the top 20% of that pool to do well, but that applies to just about everything. An outlier would be that you are selling something very expensive and bespoke that only you know well enough to sell, but then you have a single point of failure if that goes away, whereas houses are not likely to go away.
So yes, I could certainly have leveraged my software knowledge to sell software, but it just so happens that my side gig of building houses made it more aligned to sell them too. Plus my wife got into it and now its a family biz, so lots of good feels there.
Thanks for your comment!
@@BuildingTimeFreedom i see, thank you alot for your explanation! I‘ll consider this for my path
Sales engineer here, best of both worlds 😎😂
Tech Sales gives you the base + commision
I’m currently a software engineer surveying the sales landscape, and where I might fit in. Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m looking forward to checking out your channel.
Thanks for checking me out William, it's certainly not for everyone, but I forced myself to do it about 3 years ago now and am glad I did. Best of luck in your journey!!
I’m approaching my 5 year anniversary in engineering that also is a real estate investor but the sales shift is inevitable to maximize the system
Taj, I totally agree. I didn't do real estate sales as an investor and owner for 7 years before I took the plunge.
Went from R&D to sales in a chemicals company six months ago. It’s been quite a journey, learning so much.
How has your experience been? The nice thing about sales is that it works pretty much in any industry but it's something you have to enjoy. It's not for everyone.
@@BuildingTimeFreedom It's been awesome so far. Switching from a more reasearch based train of thought to a more commercial mindset has been a whole process on its own.
Thanks for this video John. I would really be happy if you made part 2 where you depict the path in more details, like your first sales role and if you stayed at the same company or started somewhere new..
Thank you!
I went straight into real estate sales, which in retrospect was probably not the most optimal path. I may have done better in enterprise software sales since I had that skillset. The downside of something like that is there are a smaller number of buyers. So you need to ask yourself what is the size of pool of clients x average commission and then figure out how many people are trying to get business from that pool. Then ask yourself if you can be in the top 20% of that pool.
Great video. I really needed to hear it.
Thanks Gary, glad you liked it. It was a long time in the works, but I'm happy with the switch.
Hi, Great video although 3 years old as an engineer I totally relate to it.
I am 20 Years Old completed my Class12th and was confused between what Carrier to Go For and
I am now Totally confident For Going into That Is Sales
( I mean I kind of Love it )
Thank You Very Much John😊
Love From India 🇮🇳
Fantastic video. VERY useful. Thank you!
I wanted to hear how you did it, did you go back to school? was it easy to find a good job? etc
No I just started doing real estate on the side for years before I switch over full time. I mostly did partnership deals with other investors until I learned how to do them on my own.. My whole purpose was to not have a job, so now I work fully in sales and development of my own assets.
I am a civil engineer with a solid/secure job, but I believe I am good with communication and negotiation with others.
So a friend of mine is offering me to do sales for their company selling insulation (foam insulation and batt, also drywall work as well)
So what is your advice and opinion about this career change and how to react?
Right now I am trying to do it part time but I am browsing my path for full time
I am living in Canada
You have to look at the market opportunity for that product and ask yourself how many sales you would have to make to make the money you want. Is it 50 sales 100, 150? Then ask yourself if you would be willing to do the work of contacting enough people to make those sales.
Also one of the best parts of sales is building relationships that will serve you for the rest of your life. Are the relationships you will make selling that product empower the future you want or are they one offs that you won’t see again?
What I love about real estate sales is that I develop relationships that are fulfilling and end up being investors in the projects I do. Over time that list gets bigger and bigger which allows me to do more and more deals.
@@JohnSBlackman John really appreciate the time you took out of your day to reply my questions.
In long run I see all these connections very useful since they mostly contractors and later I am looking into real estate sales as well so I would say they can really help, in addition to getting to know trade people in all categories so if I want to start some building myself I can do it...
This friend of mine will says with 10% commission our of dales I need 4 sales in a month with average size jobs to make what I make now.
Well my current job is a government job and secure with 100k a year, so that's why I am really trying to be some how sure what I am giving up and what gaining, although I know that's the risks that coming with sales job or any business.
@@Feri9 sales tends to be cyclical. You won't likely make 4 per month. You will end up making 2 one month and 8 the next, so plan for that and save for lean months. I would aim for 8 a month so if you fall a little short you are still making more than your previous salary job. Most sales people don't make that much, but the ones who really treat it like a business and are motivated make a LOT more.
@@BuildingTimeFreedom I really appreciate your advice and time. Thank you!
I am a Sr. Consultant who works with the Microsoft tech stack and I too am getting kind of fed up with this career path. I'm sick and tired of being tied to my desk 40 hours a week billing clients. I want flexibility now that I am spending more time on getting in shape and doing outdoor activities. I want to earn more money for my time spent. About 2 years ago I investigated the idea of being a real estate agent and I actually got into the rental game a little bit, but I liquidated everything and gave up on the realtor dream and moved across the country. Maybe time to rethink my prior strategy. Thanks for sharing your story. Subscribed / checking out your other videos now.
Mica, thanks for sharing your experience. When I was younger I was of course into video gaming and landed my dram job in the Xbox Live group. It was a terrific experience and as a 20-something I loved. Of course age came along and gaming became more of an industry and less of a passion and I started to value the same things you do. Becoming a real estate agent was not natural to me at all. The first year was really tough, and the failure rate in the industry is over 80%! It's hard for many engineering types, but I do think they can excel with investors because of their pragmatic and numbers based approach.
Moving from software engineering to sales is a terrible financial decision. There is a massive demand supply gap for SWE. There are too many realtors
In general the numbers agree based on your performance. However if you can perform in the top 5% of realtors you will make much more. My income went up 6X after becoming an agent, but it took me 2 years to build the business to get there.
I really liked that video specially that it’s related to my situation after my recent graduation in computer engineering major and got my 1st full time job as customer experience officer in marketing department at a tech academy!
My previous 4-5 years was all focused on tech, computer engineering, programming, and everything related to programs and game development field as I took on aside of my bachelor’s study many courses in programming to taste all kinds of fields available in my major + got many part time jobs during my university years that took me into operations, marketing, and leadership roles.
It’s been 3 months since I started my current full time job and it seems it’s taking me more to sales and customer engagement roles and career path which for now am comfortable with and happy with them, BUT am really concerned is this exactly the right thing am going with and started my career with or I’ll be regretting not going with IT and tech jobs and starting my career there?
Presently an R&D EE. Lately, thinking about all of the stress that I can be positioned in. Wondering if the pay is worth it. Wondering if I should build a little cushion of cash over next 5 years and then transition into a role like Sales Engineer for the products that I'm designing. But, I also wonder if the feast or famine reality of Sales Engineering is worth the physical stress that can accompany it.
What are your thoughts for a person in my position? I want financial freedom. Pure engineering may not be the path that gets me there.
What's more, talking can be difficult when I get into stretches of time where I am immersed in work or a technical problem. It's as if the language region of my brain smoothens and I lose my access to words, as I've been silently thinking about the logical and mathematical and visual components of my job. I also find myself second guessing in the middle of a sentence, just due to my engineering mind wanting to fact check constantly. My charisma takes a dive due to my matter-of-factness. I become kurt.
How did you (or would you) address this problem?
Well as an engineer you are probably pretty good at building models. So model your income in your current role, how much you can invest, and how long it will take you to get where you want to go. Ask yourself if that is ok.
Switching to sales can be very tough for us engineering types. It's a people business and the accuracy component is less necessary. If you approach sales with an engineering mindset, you can get pretty predictable ratios. How many leads can you generate per day/week/month? How many do you talk to? How many of them end up needing your service and have a real conversation with? How many close a sale? What is the median sales commission. Once you have this formula you can predict your income pretty well.
What remains is how you want to spend your time. Do you want to do it doing the things required to make the sale or building the product? A lot depends on what you sell too. Selling say fight control chips to one of 3 major airplane builders is a very limited market. You only have 3 buyers so the formula is pretty limited. Selling real estate is very liquid and you can readily find more clients so you can grab more market share.
So for me, I know my contact to close ratio for selling real estate. I can pretty well predict how much money I want to make based on tracking my own numbers.
Hope this helps.
thank you John, I am thinking like you now,
I want to get into business to reach financial freedom and wanted to be able to sell to people and influence them
and this video inspires me to do so
This was my very first youtube video. You can tell too. Best of luck on your journey!
I’m currently a mechanical engineer, also thinking to change field to sales related industry. Still thinking ……
It can be a great switch, but its way more personal and less technical. I think it can be super fulfilling, but be sure to do the math on how many sales you can make and how much time it takes to connect with those clients to get the sales you want. You can take an engineering approach to sales which is very powerful and most sales people don't use. So you can leverage your existing strengths. Good luck!
I’m a mechanical engineer converted to a sales engineer, it’s awesome. Definitely the best of both worlds
Hey John, I only see this one video on sales engineering, do you still see this as a good transition for people in the engineering field? How long did you do the engineering sales before you transitioned into real-estate full time?
Hey Bill, I never actually did any engineering sales. I just went straight into real estate sales, but only after I had done many transactions using other sales people for many years. So I got more familiar with it and didn't jump in cold turkey. Doing sales was a big mindset shift, but it has afforded a lot more opportunity and leverage than my engineering role did.
Thank you for this video!
You're welcome, it's not for everyone but it has worked for me. Appreciate your feedback!
Just out of curiosity, what top 5 engineering sales fields or areas would you recommend (like HVAC vs maybe large farm equipment)
Considering ability to weather recession, future sustainability, fields that are more apt to maybe to base+commission and of course some consideration of salary levels but not only compensation?
That's kind of an impossible question. It really depends on your values and what you want out of a sales position, more safety (base + commission) or more high income potential (pure commission). Ideally you want something with a high sales price, good commissions, and something everyone will always need for the foreseeable future. This is why I chose real estate. It grabs all three and it's a huge portion of the GDP. You just have to run the formula Time to acquire lead * probability of success * average commission, then work backward to how much money you want to make. Liking what you sell also helps.
Yeah sales is waaay less stresfull than engineering.
It depends. Engineering has a steady paycheck. Sales can be feast or famine. Thanks for watching!
Yea, engineering sucks. Engineers are just a commodity to most companies. They stick you in a cubicle instead of in an office because you're dirt. When things slow down, companies stop new product development and lay off their engineers to save money. Engineers are the first out the door. Sales is the engine that drives a company, so they get to stay.
Companies almost always pay engineers on a salary basis, which is the green light for companies to have you work overtime and not get paid for it. The devise schemes like "we need to meet a show deadline" to work you 60 hours and pay you for 40.
Companies claim that they can't find American engineers so that they can justify bringing in foreign workers on H-1b work visas. Engineering is the worst.
I totally get your frustration. There is this point where you realize a company will go one without you and doesn't really care that much if you work for them or not. Labor markets shift in favor from employers to employees for a variety of reasons. Lately employers have had a hard time keeping good people so wages are going up, especially for engineers. Companies optimize their resources and sometimes that means firing. It's like the scorpion and the frog, it's in their nature.
I do agree with you that good sales people are stickier than engineers unless the engineer is critical to the success of a revenue generating product. So you have to go become *that* engineer or a sales person that makes more money for the company than they are paid.
Thanks for watching, and I really appreciate your comment. Keep on taking the next step my friend.