Good to see this one again. I copied this technique to tie loops on low friction rings. They then can be hitched to rails or stanchions for temporary re-directs.
If you'd really like to know what things break at, you likely could work with the HowNot2 RUclips channel. He has a new, more convenient break-test machine to test things and has other sailing-specific break testing content. www.youtube.com/@HowNOT2
I like it! But how do you keep from fumbling your dog bone shackles overboard when taking down the jib? Do you use a small piece of string to tie them to the gromet "permanently" like a brass one?
So, a few questions - If you are replacing something with a working load of ~100 pounds, why use something about 10 times greater? - Since Dyneema requires double the bury of a class I line, why not use a class 1 line which results in a srtomger bury? - How are these attached to the sails? - Why not skip the complexity of the 'false Brummel' (what you did doesn't really lock it) and just use cross-stitching as the lock? If you look at @HardIsEasy ruclips.net/video/0gWOiqPAZDw/видео.html , the use on Dyneema sling-on-rope leads to great chafe and early failure. Especially under great tension.
Thanks Herbie! Brilliant! I was planning to change the hanks of my stay sail to soft-hanks. So this is perfect. Important question: Where did you get the dogbones? Any option in EU? Cheers, Carlos
Brilliant. The cross bury is a great idea. Did you steal one of Maddie’s kitchen knives? Easy to follow as well. I like the travelogues but you know me. Give me sailing and messing with ropes. Cheers Jim & Karen
I have a large amount of knot soft shackles I use frequently for any reason. Originally made most for sails on lines as staysails. Now they can be used for everything. I would like to know more on the comparative use of styles? Possible a non metallic dogbone will have me try this. Think I could mold resin impregnated rope section if none are available. Thanks for another fine tutorial.
Can you explain the reasons you use a dog bone over a button knot soft shackle, to me you are adding extra weight and only eliminating half the hardware. Is it just for ease of attachment/detachment and a little less profile ..... just interested
Herby - very cool video. Appreciated! Is the dog bone the only option for hardware for closing these soft shackles? Is it the tight space between the sail edge and the stay that keeps the soft shackle from releasing? How do you make sure that if a soft shackle comes undone, you don't lose it? Thanks!
Ahoy! Skipper! I've got my Amsteel gray but my dog must've gotten into the bones … where can I find some of those puppies? (Can't see 'em anywhere on your Website or your shop.) duh, guess Ah'll hafta try Giggle.
With a little googling, I found these. www.atlanticriggingsupply.com/ty11ssdo.html Or Amazon: www.amazon.com/Tylaska-DogBone-Stainless-Steel-Aluminum/dp/B06XWVW8HD/ref=lp_13208247011_1_1?srs=13208247011&ie=UTF8&qid=1537483301&sr=8-1&th=1&psc=1
Thanks again. Do you have any tips on how to get a knife reasonably sharp? Any videos on this I see use all sorts of tools and leather straps and special powder ......
I use a regular kitchen knife sharpener that was in the galley of my boat when I bought her. If I sharpens the knife, it will cut through easily for the first few cuts, then it gets dull again. A regular kitchen knife also works just fine to cut Dyneema, no need to get a fancy ceramic blade.
Where can we get the dog bone/toggle piece? Is there a part number or model number? I got some 5.5 inch carbon steel shears that one side has micro serrations so it grips the fibers and they don't slip/squish out. They work great, but the did cost about $30
You can, but when it slips through the cringle in the luff, it gets rather narrow and will be hard to open the soft shackle. When it’s put in the sail, an small safety line is tied from the dog one and around the loop to hold everything in place.
Audio is way too low! (Your trailer really blasts when the vid ends.) @04:45 "The most important part is when I'm all done, no one sees any ink marks, it's all nice and clean." Well, nice and clean is great, but WHO would be looking at your HANKS? @07:10 "'Why are these coming out on opposite sides?' Well, it's very simple, and you're gonna see that right now." Skipper, throught this video (and all those I've seen so far) you make a great effort to make everything clear, even when it isn't very simple. Kudos to you, sir!
Greetings; Interesting mod. I'm not a sailor, but a dedicated hobby "roper" if you can relate to this made up term?!? Ashley BOK is my bedside bible. :) Atlantic Rigging co. sells these SS Dog Bones for about $20, and it's rated at 5K# breaking, much less than the Dyneema is rated.. Is your motivation for using this soft shackle mod, to assure it won't shake free is use, as a soft shackle with Button knot might? Appreciate your clear, well annotated presentation sir. Stay safe.
Thank you very much and I completely understand the type of person you are, it’s basically me without a boat. I find ways to use rope to fix so many other problems as it’s such a useful tool that (with the help of good books like ABOK) can be made into infinite solutions! The reason I used the dog bones is I was making a setup to attach the sail to a stay. The top and bottom attachments undergo the highest amount of stress and wear. I wanted these two points to be made out of something that had an independent strength rating, that way I knew it would be strong enough. All the others in between I used a regular soft shackle with a Lovers Knot instead of the Button Knot, simply because I like how the fibers lay straighter and I feel like they would retain more strength. For the high load applications, I used the dog bones with a rating, for the high load, but not the highest load ones, I used a trusty knot for the job as it’s much cheaper than buying a bunch of dog bones.
Is there a way to predict the decreased breaking-strength of a non-tapered splice, or is that one of those "There are waaay too many variables to accurately predict that" things? For instance, you said that the shackle has a breaking strength of 10,000 lbs, but how much is that reduced if you don't taper? Is the new limit 9,000 lbs? 200 lbs? Is that calculable, or would you have to do a bunch of "bad" shackles and yank on them until they failed? (Doing an "n" of 30 to get a statistically-significant test sounds ... tedious) I.e., is there a nice mathematical equation, or would you have to "engineering" it?
Hey Herby! I’m considering replacing my lifelines with Dynema. A local rigger is advising against it because apparently Dyneema doesn’t last as long under the Caribean Sun compared to wire life lines. Would you agree with that? Thx!
I feel the exact opposite! The color will fade, but they hold up great! We spent a good amount of time down by the equator where the sun can’t be any hotter and they showed no additional decay. Our lifelines are 8 years old now and still going strong with no signs of failure.
I’ve been using these for a while. These are from Tylaska. They have two materials, aluminum and stainless. For high loads go with the stainless. www.tylaska.com/product-category/marine-hardware/dog-bones/ . I’m still waiting for Herb to publish his book. “Zen and the art of sailboat rigging”. We need to get him a set of Selma fids. LOL
![[How to] Make a Dyneema Deadeye | Sailing Wisdom](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9-4AYV7jKRA/mqdefault.jpg)
![[How to] Make a Dyneema Deadeye | Sailing Wisdom](/img/tr.png)
![Double Braid Eye Splice | Sailing Wisdom [How to]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kNuhAVVzNd0/mqdefault.jpg)
Good to see this one again. I copied this technique to tie loops on low friction rings. They then can be hitched to rails or stanchions for temporary re-directs.
Now you were thinking of me today! I'm flattered!! Hope y'all have a great evening! 🙏❤️👣⛵️
If you'd really like to know what things break at, you likely could work with the HowNot2 RUclips channel. He has a new, more convenient break-test machine to test things and has other sailing-specific break testing content. www.youtube.com/@HowNOT2
@RiggingDoctor;
If you contact him, you may be able to send him some samples for his HowNOT2 Sail series.
Ahh, I remember those well. Good job!
I like it! But how do you keep from fumbling your dog bone shackles overboard when taking down the jib? Do you use a small piece of string to tie them to the gromet "permanently" like a brass one?
I think some do. String being the very small dynema.
So, a few questions
- If you are replacing something with a working load of ~100 pounds, why use something about 10 times greater?
- Since Dyneema requires double the bury of a class I line, why not use a class 1 line which results in a srtomger bury?
- How are these attached to the sails?
- Why not skip the complexity of the 'false Brummel' (what you did doesn't really lock it) and just use cross-stitching as the lock?
If you look at @HardIsEasy ruclips.net/video/0gWOiqPAZDw/видео.html , the use on Dyneema sling-on-rope leads to great chafe and early failure. Especially under great tension.
Thx'z for the video it was entertaining and education!
Beautiful
Thanks Herbie!
Brilliant!
I was planning to change the hanks of my stay sail to soft-hanks. So this is perfect.
Important question:
Where did you get the dogbones? Any option in EU?
Cheers, Carlos
Check the description.
@@braithmiller must of been edited out, because I can't see any mention of dogbones.
I'm sure I've seen that for sale in the Kinky Shop's in NY in the 80's, 🤪🤪
Brilliant. The cross bury is a great idea. Did you steal one of Maddie’s kitchen knives? Easy to follow as well. I like the travelogues but you know me. Give me sailing and messing with ropes.
Cheers
Jim & Karen
I have a large amount of knot soft shackles I use frequently for any reason. Originally made most for sails on lines as staysails. Now they can be used for everything. I would like to know more on the comparative use of styles? Possible a non metallic dogbone will have me try this. Think I could mold resin impregnated rope section if none are available. Thanks for another fine tutorial.
That would be a cool way to make your own toggle!
good stuff mate!
Will the dog bone fall out when it gets cold out due to dyneema expanding?
👍👍👍
The easiest way to cut dyneema is with a pair of kevlar shears. They go through it like butter. Klein Tools 544KV are affordable and excellent.
I will check them out! Klein makes all my other specialty tools and they have held up to the rough life of being a metal tool on a boat!
Can you explain the reasons you use a dog bone over a button knot soft shackle, to me you are adding extra weight and only eliminating half the hardware. Is it just for ease of attachment/detachment and a little less profile ..... just interested
My guess would be the small 2" size makes sliding the loop open and closed around the button difficult or impossible.
I can’t see any reason not to just use a standard soft shackle with 1/8” dyneema.
@@williamfoster2789 my boat is much smaller so I would be likely to give your way a shot. He did say this size was over engineered.
@@williamfoster2789 Experience based, relatable size sail and stay, bay sail or global?
Not having used this type I have no comparison. I have utility soft shackles available in bulk.
Herby - very cool video. Appreciated! Is the dog bone the only option for hardware for closing these soft shackles? Is it the tight space between the sail edge and the stay that keeps the soft shackle from releasing? How do you make sure that if a soft shackle comes undone, you don't lose it? Thanks!
I have only used large knots myself so far. I see a few proprietary options.
Ahoy! Skipper! I've got my Amsteel gray but my dog must've gotten into the bones … where can I find some of those puppies? (Can't see 'em anywhere on your Website or your shop.)
duh, guess Ah'll hafta try Giggle.
With a little googling, I found these.
www.atlanticriggingsupply.com/ty11ssdo.html
Or Amazon:
www.amazon.com/Tylaska-DogBone-Stainless-Steel-Aluminum/dp/B06XWVW8HD/ref=lp_13208247011_1_1?srs=13208247011&ie=UTF8&qid=1537483301&sr=8-1&th=1&psc=1
This is an aluminum version: amzn.to/30BJqLV
I used DB10SS that I got at a local chandler.
How would this work in a soft shackle. Of course making the loop in the top first.
Instead of pushing I would use a pulling needle such as a D-splicer. Way easier to use. And a pair of scissors to cut just for safety 😉
Good pointers!
👍!!!
Thanks again.
Do you have any tips on how to get a knife reasonably sharp? Any videos on this I see use all sorts of tools and leather straps and special powder ......
I use a regular kitchen knife sharpener that was in the galley of my boat when I bought her. If I sharpens the knife, it will cut through easily for the first few cuts, then it gets dull again.
A regular kitchen knife also works just fine to cut Dyneema, no need to get a fancy ceramic blade.
@@RiggingDoctor thanks
Where can we get the dog bone/toggle piece? Is there a part number or model number? I got some 5.5 inch carbon steel shears that one side has micro serrations so it grips the fibers and they don't slip/squish out. They work great, but the did cost about $30
Could you put a loop in the other end from the dog one and make it a soft shackle? Would it be less likely to shake loose if the sail flogs?
You can, but when it slips through the cringle in the luff, it gets rather narrow and will be hard to open the soft shackle.
When it’s put in the sail, an small safety line is tied from the dog one and around the loop to hold everything in place.
can you please paste a link which dog bone you are using?
Audio is way too low! (Your trailer really blasts when the vid ends.)
@04:45 "The most important part is when I'm all done, no one sees any ink marks, it's all nice and clean."
Well, nice and clean is great, but WHO would be looking at your HANKS?
@07:10 "'Why are these coming out on opposite sides?' Well, it's very simple, and you're gonna see that right now."
Skipper, throught this video (and all those I've seen so far) you make a great effort to make everything clear, even when it isn't very simple. Kudos to you, sir!
Greetings;
Interesting mod. I'm not a sailor, but a dedicated hobby "roper" if you can relate to this made up term?!? Ashley BOK is my bedside bible. :)
Atlantic Rigging co. sells these SS Dog Bones for about $20, and it's rated at 5K# breaking, much less than the Dyneema is rated..
Is your motivation for using this soft shackle mod, to assure it won't shake free is use, as a soft shackle with Button knot might? Appreciate your clear, well annotated presentation sir. Stay safe.
Thank you very much and I completely understand the type of person you are, it’s basically me without a boat. I find ways to use rope to fix so many other problems as it’s such a useful tool that (with the help of good books like ABOK) can be made into infinite solutions!
The reason I used the dog bones is I was making a setup to attach the sail to a stay. The top and bottom attachments undergo the highest amount of stress and wear. I wanted these two points to be made out of something that had an independent strength rating, that way I knew it would be strong enough. All the others in between I used a regular soft shackle with a Lovers Knot instead of the Button Knot, simply because I like how the fibers lay straighter and I feel like they would retain more strength.
For the high load applications, I used the dog bones with a rating, for the high load, but not the highest load ones, I used a trusty knot for the job as it’s much cheaper than buying a bunch of dog bones.
Is there a way to predict the decreased breaking-strength of a non-tapered splice, or is that one of those "There are waaay too many variables to accurately predict that" things?
For instance, you said that the shackle has a breaking strength of 10,000 lbs, but how much is that reduced if you don't taper? Is the new limit 9,000 lbs? 200 lbs? Is that calculable, or would you have to do a bunch of "bad" shackles and yank on them until they failed? (Doing an "n" of 30 to get a statistically-significant test sounds ... tedious) I.e., is there a nice mathematical equation, or would you have to "engineering" it?
One would have to test it. No reason to induce a sharp edge. Many strength reducing knots are 50% or cause wear.
HowNot2 did break tests on this! There's other good sailing and knot/splice too. Watch here: ruclips.net/video/lhIPeJNWtxE/видео.html
Hey Herby! I’m considering replacing my lifelines with Dynema. A local rigger is advising against it because apparently Dyneema doesn’t last as long under the Caribean Sun compared to wire life lines. Would you agree with that? Thx!
I feel the exact opposite! The color will fade, but they hold up great! We spent a good amount of time down by the equator where the sun can’t be any hotter and they showed no additional decay.
Our lifelines are 8 years old now and still going strong with no signs of failure.
That’s good to hear. Thanks!
What diameter is that Dyneema? 4mm? 6mm?
6mm
@@RiggingDoctor súper thank you!
I’ve been using these for a while. These are from Tylaska. They have two materials, aluminum and stainless. For high loads go with the stainless.
www.tylaska.com/product-category/marine-hardware/dog-bones/ . I’m still waiting for Herb to publish his book. “Zen and the art of sailboat rigging”.
We need to get him a set of Selma fids. LOL
👍 It is fun to make complex systems out of simple rope
I hate Selma fids, all you get in Europe
Amazing detail such care for the pieces. Feel like Obama just taught how to make dog-bone shackle..
😎