We are worried about the wrong things
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- Опубликовано: 21 апр 2023
- Soft shackles work so well, many people are worried the noose will slip off the head, since that is the only thing keeping it in place. A standard button knot soft shackle has the legs completely separated until the noose but John Tucker wanted to try to test brummel splicing them together which, in theory, will keep it snug up around the knot.
John Tucker used Samson SK75 7/64 (2.5mm) 8 braid Dyneema. I pulled with the knot in different positions to see if we got the same results regardless. I pulled it with a hydraulic without any pretension until ultimate failure.
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Will this slip off
01:08 What makes these softies unique
02:08 Diameters
03:46 Different bury lengths
05:17 Knot variations
07:40 Long bury & big knot
08:22 Long bury & button knot
09:14 NO bury & big knot
10:03 Short bury & button knot
10:55 Our results
11:44 Off brand's don't break the same
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Audio sounds a little funky at points. It does sound better, just kind of warbly at times. Apparently I'm also worrying about the wrong thing 😅 Not hating, just maybe you didn't notice. Super good enough though ❤
i checked my playback speed thinking it was on my end.
I race a small dinghy on a small lake, which means we tack and jibe a LOT. I attach my jib sheets and whisker pole line to the clew of the jib with a soft shackle and have had no issues despite a ton of cyclical loading. But also it’s not keeping me alive so feel free to hold your climbing stuff to a higher standard!
We only use them on stuff that won't get flogged
I think it doesn’t come loose because the button knot sticks in the clew grommet. The snipe uses a whisker pole launcher line and lacks a furler. Quick rigging on the water is sure nice, and a metal shackle beats up the foredeck and mast and hangs up on the shrouds. I don’t think there’s a better way.
All of these words sound made up…..
If have had a "tunnel-spliced" soft-shackle come los-er on my jib of my 470-racing dinghy after quite a bit of flogging while rigging the boat. Never opened, however.
Ryan, I honestly love this episode. Here‘s why: during the last weeks I‘ve been tinkering a lot trying to solve this issue, but I wasn‘t capable of finding a solution. If this splice does what it promises, we‘ll immediately add it to our shop as a long wanted solution.
But that‘s not the only reason why I love this episode. I noticed you often times stated „I don‘t know“ instead of giving answers from gut feelings. I think this is a major (!) improvement to your videos. Also the whole video feels a lot more fact based than older episodes. I turned away from your channel for a while since older clips often contained gut feelings over provable facts. This seems to have changed and I honestly value your effort to do so.
You might just have won back a fan. Greetings from Germany :)
P.S.: I also highly appreciate testing multiple instead of single items. This makes the results so much more confident. So many improvements! 💪👌🏻
Nice clean audio! But it seems to have artifacts from AI "enhancement" or Premiere's "intelligent" audio fixing features. These algorithms seem to be really good at removing background noises like static, washing machines, or traffic sounds at the cost of minor artifacts. In my experience, however, I'm mostly fighting echo. I've found that simply covering every off-camera surface in blankets, pillows, and other soft shit fixes my echo issues without leaving artifacts.
Please do not use this "cleanup".
i guess you could say it's clean in terms of background noise, but the ai-ified voice is very distracting, and there's a lot of popping
I don’t climb I’m not a sailor or an arborist I just love this channel I’m always happy to see a new video guess I’m just a nerd that way
There’s no issues with a normal soft shackle. Just splice your eye small enough and it can’t come undone especially under tension. The majority of the soft shackles I see have an eye that was spliced far bigger than they should be
Was using a soft shackle of the kind you mention at the start, not for climbing, but for pulling something that happened to catch and bounce which caused it to undo. Not sure you can compare my stupid use of one to your use case.
Well, time to get a thermal imager to see where the heat is building up the most 😁.
That's a really good idea actually.
I attribute the brummel splice soft shackle with a diamond knot to L-36. I'm sure he got it from someone who got it from someone, but he was the first to play with different designs. I have them littered all over the boat doing various things from securing a surfboard leash, to holding spinnaker sheet blocks, to whatever you can think of. Good demo
I use the button knot soft shackle to secure the jib sheet to the clew of the sail and, when tacking, sometimes, if the crew makes an error, the sail will flog given it a significant cyclical loading/unloading. We have not yet had a soft shackle come undone. We did tape the softies when we first started using them but have since decided it was unnecessary.
I would like to see a test of the other styles of nots. Thanks for the video.
Great video but audio sounds so weird
Perfect timing thanks guys!
Oh daaamn, I love your videos. Please keep talking nerdy, it's super interesting!
“Super Good Enough” ⭐️
Great thorough video!
Thanks. Always wondered about soft shackleds
I’m not a climber, but appreciate rope work and love your videos.
For utility purposes, I’ve got my own variation on this I like to use! With nylon cord I’ll do a diamond knot, leave a small gap, and do another diamond knot. The gap I leave is smaller than the diameter of the diamond knot. This allows me to pass the bite of the cord through the gap, then back around the second diamond knot. It’s effectively impossible for it to shake loose when not under load…which is great for my car keys. 😂😂😂
great video as always Ryan! Interesting idea for sure
thanks for bringing up the x-bull amazon product. will be on the look out to replace my line in the near future, and the notice is appreciated.
So much info. I'll definitely watch this twice
John's lettering is so neat
Weird sound on video , thought Ryan had huffed some helium at some points 😂
Great video.
Great video, love soft shackle stuff :) Have you ever done a break test on the double wrapped soft shackle setup your using? Would be really interesting to see how close they are to the theoretical doubling in strength as you increase the number of wraps (double and maybe even triple wrapped)
Casey LaDelle had one of the large off-road recovery soft shackles fail by the head pulling through. Note: there was a snatch ring on the soft shackle. Could it have interfered with the proper performance of the soft shackle?
Original video around 14:30: ruclips.net/video/80KfPE9OuKw/видео.html
Followup video: ruclips.net/video/AmLTiJf95bU/видео.html
Excellent information! The The audio in the beginning was a little bit wonky but by the end it was great! Looking forward to more videos on this topic!
Voice over was on point bro! Audio was too tier on this one. Also liked the subtitle style test data on screen.
Excellent
I know a few people in amazon who might be in the right place. Will bring this to their attention and see what happens. (Not a climber btw, just happened across your video, I mean I climb…. Bouldering haha
I recently learned how to make various shackles, and one of the ways to secure the loop from coming off is to form a larks head first. When slipped around the knot, it bites really hard. Can you revisit this test and include this method? I only mention this because it's easy to tie and fast.
Have you tested parachute style soft shackles, where you make a larks head over the button knot/tab with the noose? They don't come loose easily. I've made these myself, but am unsure of the strength.
Same, I'd be curious about this result as well since some soft shackles can be made with this style without needing splicing.
There's an episode called how not 2 skydive where I believe they do
@@chicken_punk_pie Thanks i'll check it out
Was wondering about this, my reserve parachute soft shackle does the larks head and its also shealthed. Manufacturer suggests 3 wraps as well. Came with an oring to lock the lark as well.
I assume about 150% of base line's strength. This is VERY variable for paracord from different manufacturers with different materials. I figure them to be the same strength as a cheap non-climbing carabiner of the same size. I.e., they are good for hanging gear. With the lark's head knot they are quite unlikely to shake loose. I've seen tests showing the lark's head reducing shackle strength by a small amount (
do you have a place where you post your non educational videos? like your highline progession, or taking on a new climb? love these videos even though i havent climbed anything since i was a teen, just like learning things, but would be interested in seeing a few of the actual climbs or highlines
I triple wrap my soft shackle, use an oring to hold down the loop, and then wrap it in tape.
I just learned how to use this kinda fid yesterday 😂
thx
I've moved from "two lines style" to a different kind of "self closing", similar to thew 12mm dyneema splice shown but with absolute mininum room for loop to open and brummel lock *before* and after the mid bury. (aft lock keeps it just at position makiing it nicer to make the knot, brummel before bury makes it keep closed, especially if there is not much extra room). It requires no milking in use.
Speed at use is important for my use where those are used very short periods and time efficiency would be nice. For a slackline it probably makes no difference if you use 10 or 20 seconds more per soft shackle in the total hassle involved.
What happens if you cool the knots while tightening? Would that increase the strength?
My shackles I splice completely inside each other the full length with a stopper knot on the end.
Where can I get this kind of soft shackles, like the ones by John Tucker, I want to add one to my harness as secondary belay loop, wonder if it is a good idea.
How much variation do you get having the ball end positioned other than at one of the carabiners?
Great content, somethings off with the audio tho. Especially on the first clip
Hi. I was wondering if you could test soft shackles made with knots rather than splicing because these are:
- quick to make
- don't need tools
- can be easily knocked up in an emergency situation
- and might be stong enough!
I was thinking maybe a double overhand for the stopper end because it is easy to tie and easy to inspect. And for the loop end a larks foot or a half hitch.
Imagine dyneema might be too slippy, but nylon might be okay.
If you have any thoughts?
There actually is a video on this, ruclips.net/video/jU_mmdbQeCQ/видео.html
I feel the Ashley Stopper knot might be a better choice for the stopper knot. A Zeppelin Bend might also be interesting.
In Dyneema, the breaking point, other than with the Brian Toss button knot, is generally in the knot. The Dyneema simply slips out of the knot. In paracord soft shackles, I also use the Ashley Stopper knot.
What about using the lovers knot instead of the bottom knot ? It pulls thru the eye using my railroad jack. But I don’t have anyway to measure the force.
What about the harbor freight winch line I have that on my winch I’ve never really put any big pole to it but I wonder if it’s as bad as the rest of the Chyneema?
I wonder if it is breaking on the noose because of the heat from friction. Maybe some electric tape on the noose to take the friction heat would add any extra strength since the noose is expereincing less friction heat.
Just a thought to try out maybe?
If it's typically the noose that breaks, what about wrapping the noose completely around the knot, like multiple wraps around a carabiner?
Technically weight is the amount of force pulling on some mass in gravity. Pounds measures both, which is why you have both lbf (pounds of force) and lbs/lbm/lb (pounds of mass), which are defined to be equal under Earth's gravity
Can you test a soft link shackle? Like my evo loops with no noose?
What about using a larks head to connect? That seems like it would be simpler and not have as much of the issue of coming off when not under load. Sorry if you've done larks head tests, but I haven't found it yet. Thanks!
I'd like to see a larks head test too. In paragliding we use a lot of small double wrapped soft shackles and they are almost all larks head attached.
Ah just found this: ruclips.net/video/8fqwTPnp9jM/видео.html
But I'd like to see Ryan try a larks head hitch on his regular button knot soft shackles, instead of a noose. Likely more secure, but strength?
Can you buy these premade?
I've always been envious of your cool lightweight and super good enough soft shackles, but I just can't find any reason to use them in my climbing. :(
the ropes strength is effectively haved by how tight the bend is at the carabiner
I just wonder how a lark's head locked behind the knot would hold up. There would be double the material at the connection.
What is wrong with the audio? Was the video corrupted?
Pounds are also a unit of force. Kilograms are a unit of mass.
Did you change something about the audio setup? Your voice seems unnaturally different.
Oh, just read the comments... good thing I'm not the only one who noticed.
I'm betting the small bury broke in the middle because the inner line was moving inside the outer line and the friction point was at the carabiner.
Interesting that that much heat would have such a difference
Did you change your audio or is your voice strained?
Could you reference the Chineema video 😂?
I prefer the long horn soft shackle
i never saw "3/8" on a measuring stick, so weird :D
Are soft shackles ever used anywhere in rock climbing? Why not?
I know you did it for the engagement so I'll engage. It is a 22mm diameter, an 11mm radius
I guess that the people how is worried is not highlingers 😂
Nice video and tests.
But the audio is very pedestrian.
"If it doesnt feel safe, always double wrap it"
Stupid question... wtf do you ever use this for in Rock Climbing? Been climbing over 35 years and Ryan is the only one I've ever heard wax on about soft shackles.
more slacklining i believe
not a stupid question, be mindful he does break tests for a lot of gear but the bulk is climbing gear and therefore the ratings to make sense stay with kn.
You could probably rig this into a climbing system a number of ways, but would rather something which better handles abrasion.
@@zacharylaschober its also something that is better under tension, bit like my favourite load rigging knots the bowline and the zeppelin bend, strong, easy to untie, but not the best when there a lot of jiggling of gear and premature loosening of the knot could be fatal.
@Sicnus it's not a stupid question - Ryan's roots are in climbing, but his main interest is rigging big/high slack lines in remote locations. Soft shackles are really good for those projects. I don't see a lot of *climbing* applications for the soft shackle myself, but this isn't exclusively a climbing channel either, so it's cool. 🤷
@@thefack149 Yeah my head told me I knew that... but... Yeah :) Thanks!
Coming over from offroad recovery RUclips, soft shackles really don't look like they should be able to survive yanking on a stuck in truck.
😊😊
That handy tab adds a failure mechanism. Do not want.
I would never trust my life to anything like this.
weight is the force due to gravity
🤞🏼😬🤞🏼
You'd be surprised how many offroaders still buy the cheapest line on amazon 🤦
Dyneema
Break all the things!!!!!!!
Thanks Ryan, interesting results. I understand you don't want to translate between imperial and real units, but hearing something like 7/64ths makes my brain hurt haha. Just one reference to the real size would be super cool just to have an idea 😂😂 thanks
What happened to the audio? You sound like Autotuned.
I really like this self locking concept. I found this variant of a self locking shackle in the past: ruclips.net/video/7mcNuSerxoo/видео.html&pp=ygUmc2VsZiBsb2NraW5nIHNvZnRzaGFja2xlIGZseSB0aGUgZWFydGg%3D they are used to attach a rescue for paragliding, so it will stay without tension but with subtle movement all the time - until you absolutely need it…
I would love for you to compare them!
I wonder if the wiggle test you did to show them self opening could be formalized, using something like a drill tomgenerate the movement? Ask me if you are interested.
🍻
Be worried that your first clip in point fails. Dont be worried about the anchor, your going to hit the ground and that's it.
Regarding the odd breaking places, it seems that the buried tails provide extra strength. With no bury, they break behind the knot. With short bury, they break in the loop. Did the loop on the short bury break in the section that didn’t have a tail in it. I’m both cases, perhaps having a tail buried keeps the material from bending a short, thus making it stronger. I’m no expert, but throwing it out there as a possibility!
12:30 eye just blame Jeff bezos
Chyneema. LOL
weird audio this time.
Politely you sound like your about to crap your pants with the oddly sped up audio. Great video tho!
The caption says it all - climbers have no need for another new, exotic material that doesn't fit into the systems we have. Just not applicable to much besides shipboard, and apparently crazy highline rigging. Beyond having no UIAA type certification, now the imitation Dyneema looms large, further lowering the bar of trust. Why bother, seriously.
uh, i don't mind washing machine noises in the background, or echo, but this is way too robotic
weird audio
I will skip it thanks
1st
I use the button knot soft shackle to secure the jib sheet to the clew of the sail and, when tacking, sometimes, if the crew makes an error, the sail will flog given it a significant cyclical loading/unloading. We have not yet had a soft shackle come undone. We did tape the softies when we first started using them but have since decided it was unnecessary.