Does DYNEEMA Rigging Work?
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- Опубликовано: 6 июн 2018
- #syntheticrigging #synthetic #dyneema
FINALLY we have made a video about our synthetic rigging!! This is one of the things that sets us apart from other sailors and we love the system that Herby has set up. Learn all about how to tension it and travel up the mast for a full view of how it works as long as both pros and cons that come with the decision.
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This is the most informative video I have watched in years. Even the comments have been helpful. GoodOnYa. Thanks.
Herbie you rock! I love this so much we use class 2 advised by you! Nice job doctor thank you thank you ❤u! Fair wind a day beautiful seas mate!
Thank you for your well presented video. I had never heard of Dyneema before today when someone asked about it on Cruisers Forum. I am amazed. Love the concept. 15x stronger than steel, 1/5 the weight. 30 years as a rigger and charter captain but retired since 2000, so totally out of the loop on new innovations.
But still sailing...:)
Very well done video. Will email you as this format isn't overly conducive to more in-depth discussion.
Thanks for taking the time to put this out there and for contributing to the sailing community.
Awesome video! Thank you for the information. I have always been nervous about SS rigging and this is definitely an option to consider.
That is amazing. I am totally going to use Synthetic the next i rig my boat. Thank you for sharing :)
Thanks guys!!! I not only learned a lot about synthetic rigging but rigging in general! PEACE OUT! Ü
Great video, I'm new to sailing and this concept is right up my street. I love that it's doable for anyone with all those extra benefits including self checking for wear.
well done. thanks. I will be switching over as soon as I can get my mast welded to change the attachment points.
Awesome I was thinking about this! You guys are great.
Another great video! I am new to sailing and greatly appreciate all the information you two provide! Thank you!🤙🏾
It’s a fun world to come into!
Great video! Lots of information. We will be following for further updates!
yep, I did the same!!
That is so awesome, and inspiring!
I watched the splice video as well. These videos are a very good resource on rigging. Thanks for making them.
Merry Christmas
Thanks! Glad they were helpful 😎
Merry Christmas!
I have an old steel ketch that still has lignum vitae deadeyes and as I re-rig, I can see your system being very helpful. I have struggled with whether to go with turnbuckles or not, but you have made me re-assess. It seems that the blend of traditional and modern materials may be appropriate. Thank you!
Excellent points!
Thanks for the video i was one of the ones who was asking for the info when i watched your trapping video. Good stuff.
Frapping. Auto correct stinks. Lol
I love it, thanks for all this information
Very well done video. I think this synthetic rigging thing is going to blow up (as it should) for offshore sailors. Sailing and seaman/womanship is at its core about self sufficiency and I can tell you in the western Caribbean we might as well be on Mars when it comes to supplies. A few (hundred) feet of Dyneema has quickly jumped to the top of the 'oh shit' list. Sub'd and look forward to more videos!
I think the other great thing about synthetic rigging is it’s easy to store on your boat and you can also use it as haulage line in an emergency. What’s not to like ?
Enjoyed this very much. thanks
very interesting! I had no idea, thank you for the great presentation!
Super clear explenation and instructions. I am about to rig my own boat. Could not choose between steel and dyneema until now. You broke it down beautifully. Thank you from the Netherlands!
Glad to help you in your decision process :)
Definitely looking into that. Thank you. I replace my life lines with dynema almost ten years ago. I though it would be a good first test. I figured it would last about first years but it’s still going strong. Very happy with that.
That is a great video! Thanks guys.
Thank you. Very educational.
Ran into you channel through watching, It's Time To Rebuild the Watermaker!! - (MJ Sailing - Ep 103), you guys were fantastic inviting others to join you on a rainy day. On that note I am so glad I found your channel Just in this video you have shared so much knowledge and Hereby is a rope handling master by all rights. please keep sharing.
Welcome aboard, friend!
Great video. I was just sailing in 40 kt winds. the wind was so hard that the lee side spreader actually popped out of its housing and was lost. We didn't know this until we came about and nearly broke the mast. I have a 30 ft C & C. When we came about we noticed that the top of the mast was bent nearly 4 feet off center at the top. We quickly did a straight downwind sail to take the pressure off the mast, dropped the sails and connected the main sheet halyard to the port side rail to stabilize the mast. After we assessed the problem we realized that the set setscrew that held the port spreader failed, and the spreader got yanked out of its housing. Design not so good. A learning experience. Thanks again. Steve.
This is where dyneema is better IMO. It has less points of failure. As a climber, I use lots of different cordage and one thing we ALWAYS do is plan in redundancy. Now since dyneema is relatively cheap it might be possible to make a shroud that has 2 parallel dyneema cords that are tensioned appropriately. If one gets severed the other can take the load. This might be an overkill though as dyneema is stranded. But I’d love to hear thoughts on this. Wind will likely whistle through the 2 strands though !! My thinking is that you might be able to shrink the diameter down of the original by 1mm and then double it up. This would provide redundancy and make it cheaper (prices is a square law of diameter).
Oh thank you sooooooo much for this video !!!! so much info and a choice made ;)
Herby, how'd you get to be so smart? Can't wait for the next painting video Maddie!
You got my Thumbs Up just because It will help your site. Way too much technical jargon for this old to comprehend!
Thanks for your video. You were mentioned by Sailing Zingaro, so I needed to see your video. I see that my question of whether you can use a Loos Tension Gauge on Synthetic Dyneema has already been answered!!! Now, I need to check out your blog...Others also suggest buying Brian Toss's book,"The Rigger's Apprentice" --- I found that reference by watching Project Atticus's videos on how to do Sta Lok rigging and calculations...I'm retired and planning for my first boat, an Alberg 30...
Alberg 30s are great boats! The riggers apprentice a great book as well for understanding rigging. If you rerig your “soon to be new to you” Alberg with synthetic, expect it to cost around $800 total for all the materials involved.
Zingaro has a very pretty looking system. I like how he color coded the port and starboard components :)
Let me know if you have any questions as you go!
What a refreshingly normal couple. Informative video too. Thanks
Thanks! 😊
I really enjoy this episode. Probably why it's my 3rd time watching it, or is it 4. Either way. Thanks for the information you toos.
Good video. I believe dyneema and synthetic rigging is the future.
Very interesting. A little back to the future, replacing natural fibers with space-age synthetic.
Wow, lot of details
Very old-school, very nice..!
Starting to make dyneema ringing. Thanks for your video
Excellent!
Very good sharing diff options
Love it!
Great video. I’m thinking about going with synthetic rigging on my boat. Thanks!
Thanks!
It’s a really reliable setup that we have put to the test and now I can confidently say that it works! Best of all, it will never corrode.
You need to write a book on your technical knowledge with step by step and pictures.This would help fund your fun.
Thanks good information
Loved the synthetic rigging work. You know one the coolest things to do in the Bahamas is right at Nassau. Atlantis has a marina, and for about 4.50/ft the entire crew gets a place to stay overnight, and free admission to the Atlantis water park. Just FYI! The waterpark and hotel room are normally like 1000 per person or something silly. Cheers!!
So you show up in your dinghy?
@@court2379 No you have to pay for a Marina Slip...
@@allynonderdonk7577 I was implying that the dingy is short, so the price would be low as a joke.
@@court2379 Ok I see...didn't get it until you explained it.
Very cool!
Bravo, Bravo, Bravo! Cheap way to get going and sail inexpensively while on the cheap to fix and replace.
Indeed, get out there and start cruising. Upgrade as you go if you want!
@@RiggingDoctor Where did you buy Dyneema from?
I got it at West Marine. With my corporate account there I get a discount and it is priced quite reasonably.
Aww... I got all excited at the mention of 'Deadeyes' only to be devastated by the lack of lignum vitae discs, much beloved by salty, old sea dogs. 😬
I really wanted to use them but I needed 7 holes for the cap shrouds and that would be a very large piece of wood! The Dyneema deadeyes only cost $24 to make, far less than it would have cost to buy the blocks of wood (but it would have been so salty looking)!
@@RiggingDoctor Arr... Deadeyes, ratlines and belaying pins, don't leave port wi'out 'em m'dear. Oops, it's not September 19th yet. 😜
good stuff thank you
I’d like to replace our SS rigging with dyneema. A bit of a choice to eliminate roller furling altogether. Huge expense of multiple headsails. Too bad there isn’t a hardened, teflon (?) sleeve that will absolutely eliminate chafe and permit maintaining roller furler.
Well done
Hi Herby
Many thanks for this simple and instructive video. I’m on the van to purchase an Amel Maramu 48 which need new rigging and
after seeing your’s and Zingaro’s video, synthetic rigging is what I’ll choose. One question I have are related to the tension which must be achieved: did you use any measuring tool and which one?
Wish you both fair winds and safe sailing
I set the tension “by feel”. Basically you want the shrouds tight enough that the leeward stays go slack but not loose. If they go loose, you need to tighten them. If they stay tight, you need to loosen them.
whats the total-final diference in price comparing ss and dyneema standing rigging?
thanks. Felipe
Really interesting video, even for a novice sailor who doesn't understand any of the knot references. But as is the case with many of these sailing videos, nobody says anything about the relative costs -- both materials and, if you don't do it yourself, the install. Maybe it's in the comments below, but who wants to search them all.
I did a blog post a few years ago on just this very topic. Check it out with the link below:
www.riggingdoctor.com/life-aboard/2016/11/7/cost-of-conversion?rq=synthetic%20rigging%20conversion
Can you use a rigging tension gauge like the loos? In a hi performance trimaran I raced on 20 years ago we had Kevlar/technora stays with shrink tape/tube uv protection , not needed with dyneema/spectra but it could be useful for chafe?
The dyneema splices don’t appear to hold very tight on the SS thimbles. Is their anyway to improve that . I have used a adjustable technora back stay for years but for quick adjustability for different wind condition ( I race) means I would want to use turnbuckles I think. Definitively a flexible system for maintenance in far flung places!
Cheers warren
You certainly could slip a shrink tube over the stay to help with chafe protection.
The eye splices are a little loose to facilitate thimble replacement and because the thimble is not present when the splice is made, making it hard to make it snug enough without making the eye too snug. To tighten it up, you can tie a seizing knot at the throat.
Wow. Your awesome.
Amazing
Good video. Subbed.
New subscriber here 👍awesome video! I've got some catching up to do. 🎥
👍
Fantastic informative video. We've had some rod rigging repairs carried for the reasons you mentioned. didn't even consider Dyneema.. We will next time, if only for the weight saving. Have you ever had Dyneema shrouds fail catastrophically. What is the breaking strain compared to stainless steel and rod rigging. Very good review, well done.
I have never had a catastrophic failure with dyneema. Off of Hatteras, our anchor chafed on the headstay deadeye and sawed through a few of the strands. We knew it was crippled and kept the loads to a minimum on it. I consider that chafed headstay a failure because we couldn't use it like normal, but the stay never broke and nothing fell down, so I also consider the whole situation a success. Chafe is very easy to spot as the line looks visibly worn and fuzzy, whereas steel has a microscopic hairline fracture.
Thanks for watching and let me know if you ever have any questions in the future!
P.S. We will be doing a video soon on spotting and repairing failing dyneema. One of our lifelines is in need of some work and we will be covering the whole process. Be sure to subscribe so that you are notified as soon as it's uploaded.
To answer the one question Herby missed, Dyneema is 15x stronger than steel, but only 1/5 of the weight.
Great video. I love the thought of DIY rigging. My boat is over due. You seem to know what your talking about. What are your credentials?
I learned rigging a few years back and invented a knot and a splice that make it possible to rig and tension with dyneema without turnbuckles. I started a rigging company and worked part time as a rigger for a few years before we went cruising (main job is dentistry).
Now I'm cruising and simultaneously testing out my system. Problems and issues that arise are all listed on the blog as well as methods to correct them.
For more information on synthetic rigging and how to fabricate it yourself, please check out the website www.riggingdoctor.com and search "synthetic standing rigging" in the search bar on the top right corner.
the german yachtmagazin palstek.de had a nice article on the topic dynema rigging. You might get big problems with the peak loads at the points where you fix the dynema to the boat. the 7x19 stainless wires usually used have a lot of strech when there comes some power to the boat. You would never ty your boat to the dock with dynema because you might lose your clamps when some heavy swell will move the boat. you will use some polyester with 10 -30 % stretch to cut of the peak load. the palstek rigg doctors recommend to strenght the points of fixation the dynema a lot !!!
TFS well presented and I think most can understand what your doing with the rigging. One question I have is can you use a self furling jib on the forestays or will it abrade the dyneema. The way your setup to handle lines from the cockpit would lend itself to having self furling on both jibs. I do thing the weigh loss with the dyneema is a good way to lower your center of gravity.
The furler can chafe the Dyneema and there would be no way to inspect it. As far as I know, there is still no furler over Dyneema.
Cool! Thanks
No problem!
Good video, what about using double braded Kevlar as a cover at the spreaders?
That would work very well and save you the time of applying the service to the stay.
I love your videos and this one is especially helpful. I'm heading back to our boat next month, after 5 years away, to replace my rigging to dynema and swap the diesel to electric.
I wanted to head down there (guaymas, mx) with the dynema I will need with me. Do you know I good source, you would recommend. And what sizes would you suggest? My boat is a Cal Cruising 36. I'm not sure if I will reuse the current turnbuckles.
Can you send me an email to riggingdr@gmail.com?
Just subscribed after learning a great deal from you over the years. Curious to know if there is any difference in the sound a dyneema rig makes? I've noticed in other videos something of an aeolian harp effect. Have you experienced anything like this?
I have only had this happen when I didn’t have a sail bent onto the headstay. It was a rather strange sound but as soon as I had the sail on it, that seemed to be enough dampening to hush the whole rig.
7:01 a Moebius Brummel (sp?) eyesplice? Intriguing. Wold love to see you do a how-to video on your various unusual splices, knots, etc. And, if may ask, you're a pretty young guy...where did you learn all this, and how long have you been sailing?
Stay tuned, soon we’re going to be putting out a daily video for a week on just this topic!
I learned some of the splices from reading various books and then I invented the splice to make the deadeye and the knot to tie off the lashings. So far the rigging is 5 years old and still going strong with over 10,000 miles on it! 🙂
Old but great posting.
Thank you!
Great ideas, just on time for me, this week i ll replace my riggings with synthetic ones. Except forestay which is in very good condition. Do you think that this combination would cause different expansion ratio in summer and winter? I guess it would not be so difficult to handle :)
Ziya Aslan fore aft stays in different materials works fine. There will be different expansion but it can be adjusted by tightening or loosening the backstay accordingly.
If you mix and match in the shrouds, the mast will always be out of tune. The lateral stays need to be the same material while the fore aft stays can be different.
When you spliced your stays, did you need to pre-tension the stays to set the splice? I'm reading where I might need to apply 2k lbs or more to the stay to 'set the splice' before using. What's your experience with this? Also, any tips on getting around t-ball fittings?
This is a post about the cost of conversion but it was on a bot with T-balls so it goes over all the added pets needed to make it work on the mast side of the stay.
As for setting the splice, you don’t have to but it will save A LOT of time. If you don’t, you will be taking creep out of the line for about a month. If you set the splice, it becomes just a few weeks and very minor during that time.
To set splices, I attach the stay to a tree and the other end to an old F150, then I drive away from the tree slowly until the stay goes tight and the truck stops. I measure on the ground where the tires meet the ground and do this until the tires stop advancing. Then I leave the truck in neutral on a hill held up by the stay and tree. I leave it like this overnight and come the next day it’s pretty much done creeping.
What I would be interested in, is a hybrid standing rigging. Instead of the stainless cables, I want synthetic but still use the stainless turnbuckles and such. I think that is an interesting alternative that could catch on in Germany. Although our boat is in Greece
The hybrid is very nice. You have the ease of quick tuning with the ease of inspection of synthetic
@@RiggingDoctor So I want to ask here if I understand it right. I could use turnbuckles and just Möbius spliced eyes in the Dyneema line? You do the same in your forestay right? Want to buy my first boat next year and start sailing.
What are your thoughts on New England Ropes, 7mm 'heat-set' dyneema for the Standing rigging on an Alberg 30? That was suggested to me by Kraken Structures, after I saw them mentioned on Sailing Zingaro. I am still boat searching and exploring ideas...Have to get caught up on your 'regen' videos, too...
That would work great. I used 9mm here for a 45 foot boat. The Alberg has a lot lower load on the rigging, having less ballast and a much shorter mast. They also make excellent sailboats.
Let me know if you have any questions about the conversion, I would be happy to help as a reference.
Only just found this, REALLY interesting stuff. I would like to know how this may or may not affect your Insurance. We all know insurance companies get a bit anal about SS rigging and the 10 year rule of thumb. I'd be interested to know if insurance companies would be capable of recognising or at least understanding the principles and properties of the Dyneema rig in order to insure the vessel.
They do! And they like it!
It’s still new stuff so they don’t have the time limit part yet.
dynema for life lines too
Ingenious.😶
Can you do a update after 5 years how is your rigging held up what have you fixed, and what has been replaced
There are norseman terminals that can also be rigged in the field with ss wire. Cheers from Northern California.
Sta-lok as well. For steel rigging, compression fittings, like Norseman and Sta-lok are the best. They give you the strength of steel but don’t have any of the stress hardening of swage fittings.
I can't wait to get through 8 feet of snow to get to my boat so I can change my rigging to synthetic. I got about 4 kilometres of synthetic rope of various sizes and colours. I'm going to go crazy with it. Thanks for all the nice closeups and tips that will help me immensely . What are those frictionless eyes made from? Some special high density polymer ? or what ? Can they be printed with Graphite ink ? SS Eyes are so dam expensive here.Cheers
They are just plain old stainless steel eyes from West Marine. The big ones cost around $14 each, the smaller ones were only a few dollars.
You can use any polished metal surface in there, the only goals are to reduce friction and withstand thousands of crushing pounds.
If you have any questions along the way, feel free to email me and I can get back to you with detail photos of any parts you have questions with.
@@RiggingDoctor Thank you very much! I will email you to pick your brain when the time comes. Greatly appreciated ! Fair winds
Thank you for the video! Very helpful!! I would like to use synthetic rigging when I replace my standing rigging on my Sabre 34 in the next couple years. I have a couple questions. When you adjust tension on the caps, do you need to temporarily remove the spreader tip lashings that keep the cap from moving and chafing on the spreader tips? Also, do you find that you adjust tension on caps/lowers with this process less frequently than if you just have a turnbuckle to turn? Any reason not to use a turnbuckle in place of, or in addition to, the deadeyes at the chainplates?
When the rigging is new, I don’t seize the spreader tips because as I go taking out the stretch, the spreaders would get pulled down, and I need to go up and tap them back into place.
Once the stretch is out, I then seize the tips to prevent any movement or chafe.
The amount of adjustments are the same, turnbuckle or deadeye. The difference is a turnbuckle gives less distance that can be adjusted, is heavier, and is much more expensive, but adjustments are quick and easy. A deadeye, is lighter, cheaper, more lenient in the distance it can be adjusted, but it takes a lot more time to carry out the adjustments.
I chose dead eyes because they make fabricating the rigging easier (measurements don’t have to be as precise since the lashings give you more leeway) and they are cheaper. $24 in materials as opposed to $100 per turnbuckle!
Ooooooo I like this I thought about this but didn't know if it was possible or that anyone does it. The question is, is it cheaper.
It is if you do it yourself. New steel rigging for my boat was going to be $18,000. I re-rigged with synthetic for $4,400 including a full spool (600 feet) of spare Dyneema.
Hello guys!, thanks a lot for this informative video! (I understand its 3 years old by now btw). Two questions: 1. you mention you have to service the spreaders protection; so..How often do you service the dyneema protection in the spreaders?.
The second question: It is my understanding that Dyneema gets degraded with the sun light; how do you guys deal with this; would it make sense to cover somehow the rigging to protect it from UV lighting?.
Again, many many thanks! :D
Hello! While it’s an older video, it all still holds true.
Service is when you wrap another line tightly around the one doing the work. www.riggingdoctor.com/life-aboard/2015/9/1/line-service
I haven’t had to do anything in those areas and we’re entering the 7th year now!
As for UV, yes and no. The outer 0.1μm gets destroyed and protects the rest of the line, so there is no loss in line strength and it’s easier to inspect without a cover hiding it.
@@RiggingDoctor sweet!, thanks for the quick reply! =)
What if you want a roller furling headsail? Is there a way to use synthetic rigging for the head stay with a furling head sail?
I wondered the same because the rotation would cause chaffing.
You are at the 8 year mark. How's the rigging holding up? I've just bought some Dyneema to use on a small boat thanks to seeing some of your videos on splicing it.
It’s still going strong :)
Is there any particular reason you don't use turnbuckles so the tension can be adjusted quickly and easily with any change in temperature? Tensioning the rigging using the winches and frapping knots seem very time consuming.
Turnbuckles would be nice, but we needed 11 of them and for our size, they cost around $100 each. To save on the cost, we went with deadeyes which cost about $24 in materials.
These bronze toggles that you use, do you know who manufactures them, and are they still available? Any part/production numbers?
They are made by Alexander-Roberts and are still for sale on the West Marine webpage.
I don’t know the part number as these were on the boat when I bought it.
One big question. How did you rig this originally before you stepped the mast? What was involved in how you got it initially installed?
I replaced one stay at a time with the mast in place and a halyard acting as a temporary stay.
Hello. Super video, and synthetic rigging will be perfect for me on my next "old" boat. Very informative and good video.
Only one question, why not "turn buckles" on all lines to tighten them. Is it just a cost issue or are there other considerations.
Hope to hear from you.
Norway.
Just a cost issue. For my size, they were $100 per turnbuckle where a deadeye was $24 in materials.
With 11 turnbuckles, the choice was simply based on costs.
@@RiggingDoctor Thanks for taking the time to answer :) I am not to worried by cost, but want to be able to do the rigging my self. So a combination of Dynema and TurnBuckles will be my preffered way I think. Thanks again.
I am in the prosess of goin through all your good videos. Keep em coming.
Greatings from Norway.
To make them for turnbuckles, your measurements and calculations need to be 100% perfect. I did that with the headstay and most of the fabrication time was spent counting threads to get it perfect.
Then you have to get all the stretch and creep out before you install them. This can be done but it is labor intensive and needs some hefty equipment (or a tree on a hill and a heavy vehicle to hang by the stay for a few days while the creep occurs).
If you have dead eyes above the turnbuckles, you have more flexibility with lengths and you can get all the creep out on the boat.
The dead eyes take out the major stretch while the turnbuckles do the tensioning.
@@RiggingDoctor Yes, that makes the most sense to me.👍🏻
Great video very informative. I notice you use "standard" Thimbles on your rigging, my question is was this a purely economic choice or would you have chosen the cast polished thimbles given the choice thanks
It was based on cost. The regular thimbles cost me $1.50 each where a sailmakers thimble cost me $12 each.
The regular thimbles crush down until the ends meet, then they stop closing. They work well unless they are hit hard from the side and cause the ends to slip next to each other. Under the tension they hold, the thimble buckles and crushes, then needs to be replaced.
A sailmakers thimble would be far stronger and safer, but cost significantly more where I was when I made the rigging.
@@RiggingDoctor thanks for the reply I am considering all this stuff in preparation for purchasing my first big boat at 1.50 i see the attraction my concern is risk of chafing but at that price would be easy to swap them out if they show signs of deformation
Indeed! We carry a bunch of spares with us. The cost of all of them and spares was less than the same sailmakers thimbles.
I use forged thimbles on my heat set dyneema rigged F 31. Overkill probably, but they're smooth and strong and cost is reasonable. Defender industries.
How about putting a stainless steel pipe over synthetic rigging at the bow as a protection from the anchor? Could slide it up to inspect the rigging.
That is an option! I just put a turnbuckle there so that the lower portion is bronze instead of rope.
A couple of observations Herb regarding the rigging as I have seen it on your boat:
1. Your spliced loops look very long? They should be very short - right down onto the thimble. No need to serve them if they are tight and remain there under tension.
2. The order you mentioned to tension stays is a bit concerning. The order I use is different. It is (on main mast at least)
Aft Lowers
Fwd Lowers
Cap shrouds
The reason for this, is due to tensioning forestays correctly. Like you, we have a babystay / inner forestay with a relatively large stay sail.
Tension the aft lower first, brings your inner forestay into tension, and also gives the correct fore and aft position of the mast itself.
Tension the fwd lower brings balance to the aft lower tension, giving a two triangulations that can provide adjustment to the mast position / inner forestay tension.
The cap shrouds should always be tensioned last, as it has little if any, effect on the forestay tensions, and can lead to improper mast bend and / or angle if done first.
The order later druing tuning is exactly the same.
1. The loops need the length to have enough tail buried. Ideally it would be tiny, but then the splice would slip apart.
2. They both get the job done, but if you start top down, then you start with the mast centered amidships. Getting it done and going sailing is all that matters!
Thanksgivings
Do you recommend any book or site to see more of this?
Riggingdoctor.com
Check out the blog and search "synthetic standing rigging" in the search bar on the top right corner. It will pull up way too much information on the topic for you.
Could you skip the toggles and go directly into the tangs? If so it would save even more weight at the top of the mast where it has the most effect on heeling. Cons?
Yes, but the tangs for the lowers are close together and the eyes would rub. The toggle simply flips the eye by 90*.
The toggles at the top are not necessary but they looked a little less “chafey” than the tang of the eye were to ever rub on it.
In steel rigging, the toggles are mandatory because they provide a universal joint at the end and greatly reduce the incidence of stress fractures in the end fittings and wires. Dyneema won’t fracture, so it’s more focused on space. 1/2 a pound at the top of the mast is about 25 foot pounds on a 50 foot mast, so small numbers can make big differences!
Definitely try to use the least amount of parts that will safely accomplish the task at hand.
Great answer! Cheers!
Dear friends good morning. Very nice and helpfull video. Being mainly a regata sailor, precision mast tuning is important. Tensioning the rigging this way in not so accurate and repeatabile. Shrouds will give me the precision I need. Could I use turnbuckles to tension all of the rigging like you did to your forestay? Your opinion is much apreciated. Thank you in advance.
Turnbuckles can certainly be used and will make the process of tuning much faster and easier.
The reason I didn’t use turnbuckles is because they were out of our budget, so this helps show a way that it can be done without turnbuckles.
With turnbuckles, you either get your splice perfectly measured so the throw of the turnbuckle is sufficient, or you simply cut your stays shorter and have the lashing and deadeye which attaches to the turnbuckle. The latter arrangement makes the construction process much easier since the lashing will correct any inaccuracies in the length measurement.
You could think of the lashing as the macro adjustment and the turnbuckle as the micro adjustment.
@@RiggingDoctor Thank you for your reply. Fair winds to your life.
Very worth my time, its odd that the rigging will contract in heat visa versa.
Yes, that is pretty much the only “strange” feature of the material. The good thing is that’s the only big thing to worry about 😅
Why did you use toggles instead of just putting the pin trough the thimble on the cap shrouds?
1. I already had the bronze toggles on hand.
2. It gives full range of motion to the top of the stay by creating a universal joint which lowers the stress on the tang. Being rope rigging, this isn't as necessary as the rope itself has flexibility. Since I already had them, i decided to use them.
3. The lowers needed the toggles to make everything fit closely together without chafing. For the sake of symmetry, I did the cap shrouds with the same setup as the lowers and check stays.
Thanks for sharing i just wonder how you do it if you have a roller furling unit? And do you recoment it on a 49 x 26 ft catamaran?
If you have a furler, you can do all your other stays in synthetic and simply do the headstay in steel. The furler's foil rubbing on a synthetic stay would not be a good idea.
I'd certainly carry some Dyneema and a spare hank-on headsail... just in case. It takes up so little room.
Rigging Doctor I wouldn't mix steel and dyneema rigging because of the different elasticity properties of the two materials. Personally I would stick with the dyneema and wrap it with kevlar for the length needed to prevent chafing. The kevlar string will ruin a pair of scissors trying to cut it.
Actually Brent, the thermal expansion difference isn't such a big deal in practice. We have all synthetic rig, except the two headstays. It all functions exactly as required, I havnt touched the tensions for 6 months, despite a temp difference over that time of up to 40C.
The only difference we notice is the tune of the rig hum when the wind blows through it.
So it's no good in the winter unless you somehow make it work.... what is the UV rating? In another video it shows folks pulling the line with one end tied to a tree the other to their truck to pull the tension or stretch the line before hanging it. Interesting concept the synthetics.... still some kinks to work out.
Yep, winter stretch is pretty intense. The Rigging goes slack in the cold and comes back to tension in the spring. If it’s too cold for the Rigging it’s too cold for me!
UV resistance is fine, DSM has found no detrimental effects of UV exposure to uncovered Dyneema.
The truck and tree method was me on the blog, also a few of our early videos (I don’t know if those early videos are still public though)
hey...so if you just have 1 sheet winch...you just need to anchor other end? 🤔👍🏴☠️⛵ also would this work on a wooden mast? 🤔 i already replaced the running back stays with dyneema to lessen the mainsail chaffing..👍
The second winch is just an anchor. You could use a cleat to get the job done.
A wooden mast should work great as it expands and contracts in a way similar to Dyneema so the temperature changes shouldn’t have such a drastic effect on tension.
Would you be able to mix/match synthentic with steel standing rigging?
For example, replacing the lowers with synthetic, while leaving the uppers as stainless. Or replacing the shrouds with synthetic and the fore/aft stays with stainless?
I replaced my lowers last year, but the uppers were swaged in place and I couldn't take them off without cutting them. I would consider replacing the uppers with synthetic.
My forestay requires a metal stay for the roller furling that is presently in place, so I probably would stay with the same.
But my aft stay could be easily replaced with a system like you mentioned.
Is it fine to mix/match or are there some other considerations that I should know about?
The headstay and backstay can mix and match, but shrouds should all be one type.
Synthetic and steel expand differently as temperatures change. Your mast will only be in tune if it is the temperature you set it at. This means you would need to tune the Rigging every time you went out because of temperature changes.
If they are all steel or all synthetic, then they will all change the same with temperature and the mast will remain in tune.
@@RiggingDoctor Thanks! I'll consider it as an option! I think it will be a good match for my Contessa 26. As boats get larger, are there limits to when synthetic stops being appropriate? Is it the same considerations for a small boat like mine vs, say a 45' steel sailboat vs something larger like a 52' Amel vs a 60' super yacht?
Jordan Harkness everything just gets bigger and more expensive. On your contessa, this will work great.
The reduction of weight aloft will make her more stable and even more stout of a little circumnavigator! A friend of mine has a contessa 26 and they are solid and sea worthy!
Why not have galvanized or bronze turnbuckles on the bottom to make tensioning faster? Seems like it would be best of both worlds, no crevice corrosion, ease and cheap replaceability.
I would love to have bronze turnbuckles but they are above my budget.
If you want to add turnbuckles, they would be added below the deadeye.
You would use the lashings to take out the slack and the turnbuckle to tension. If the turnbuckle ever got two blocked, simply open it all the way, take out the slack again and tension the turnbuckle once more.
It really would be the best of both worlds.