Mig welding with Argon and Co2 [ Etch Testing]
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- In this video we do some testing on the difference between mig welding with Argon or Co2 .
For more welding content check out my channel
/ @amcustomfab
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Greetings from the Napa Valley. What a great video. Love the great detail provided. I'm retired from the bay area oil refinery's and still like to tinker with my wire machine .My old standby is knowing the difference between a new born baby and a welder ANSWER the new born baby will eventually stop crying. Anxious to try my brand new Esab emp 210 three in one machine. May need to stick something or mig nothing of a large scale but would be handy for small tinker jobs. My eyesight isn't good enough for tig im now 79 going on 80 .32 years as stick pipe welder. I look back and remember being under pressure to keep my certs up every year a lot of stress. Got COPD from not being aware of dangers from asbestos. Pleas us all your safety gear so when you get older you will have a better quality of life during retirement. Thanks
If you used the same settings for both, one was not run optimally. My machine recommends to run higher voltages and wire feeds for CO2. The beads will lay flat with a little oscillation. Look up the door chart for a Lincoln 180T
I was just about to say this...turn it up a volt and few ipm...you'll get a better profile
Interesting and well done. We always adjust values to get the best profile, but in this case you didn't. This is good information for today's market when they ask, "Where can we cut costs, and with what result" A shop with 15-20 welders pushing out garbage/recycle bins are looking to cut cost at every turn. Someone creating items that have a higher visual appeal may not only choose the more costly gases but even a different process.
For my little garage shop, it's Flux core, Co2, or stick for ferrous metals, and sometimes its a combination of them depending on position, root pass, fill, or cap. For example 7018 root, MiG fill, 7024 cap.
Thanks, as a hobbyist I needed someone to show me why I can use 100% CO2 instead of C25.
Great video. I am learning English and how to weld. Thanks to you I can learn two things at once. Thanks dude. 👍🏼👍🏼
Very good video. Now I know what connector to use from my Co2 tank to the Argon gauge. Thanks a lot.
Top notch content, you do a great job breaking down pros and cons!
Thanks
"top notch" your camera does not like those arcs my dude
Appreciate the tutorial 101…. Was on market for mig welder. Been arc welder for years. Realized mig might be better way go to build things.
Awesome video, very informative as far as the information I was looking for. Thanks pal!
Thanks for watching 😎👊
Great to see this after reading articles about welding gas theory (and opinion).
thank you for doing this test. This helped me out
Great video, thanks for sharing some good info.
Got halfway to the video and realize this was not a video about 100% argon versus 100% CO2. There’s lots of people who only running 100% argon. You should do another video where you redo all the tests and the one with 100% argon, one with 100% CO2 and one with the 75/25.
Voltage setting will typically decrease with the introduction of argon....co2 will need higher voltage to run optimally.....but as you pointed out spatter is a negative biproduct of co2 for sure along with narrow profile.
Damn, glad I clicked in this video or I never would’ve learned from all the professionals in the comments
Very helpful, thanks for making this vid!
Did MAG/MIG welding course for work many years ago ,we just just used argon Co2 mix for steel but instructor said Co2 can give little more penetration with right settings . We obviously used just argon for alloy and was surprised how easy alloy was once you got rig set up correctly , did have go with pure argon on steel ,got great looking weld with bugger all penetration though
Great video as always. One advice- turn off autofocus on your arc camera. Your camera, or any camera for that matter, has hard time focusing through the dark glass. Pre-focus it manually before striking the ark.
Awesome review ! Liked-Subscribed💪
that nice arc shots, I could actually see the technique that you were using.
Legit test
Thank you!
I have a lot of coToo
Greetings from Germany, great video and advice. 😊
GREAT VIDEO . NICE EXPLANATION .
Very good video! Thanks.
I like the welder shield, sure gonna lengthen the life of the plastic parts, those UV-rays are a killer.
Great videos buddy
Great test thanks
That's amazing " Now if you were only a wine maker your co2 would be free" ima going with co2 I mean wine making I like free. Right on goid video
nice demonstration, thnx.
First of all; this video was well done and i watched the whole thing. But your CTWD and work angle will have much more affect than the change in gas. All that needs to be constant during the test - like robot constant. What i can share is argon has a lower ionization voltage, and therefore lower power input. Further, more argon will allow spray transfer at lower amperage. So you can expect better bead appearance with argon, because of finer droplets all thru the range 👍 the richer you run the argon the higher your wire feed can be. More C02 will help you in out of position welding
Excellent...thank you so much
Great vid
Well done. My only caveat would be don't use a slip joint pliers on regulators. I've been told that's a firing offense at more than one shop. Your channel and your tools but since this is educational it might good to save your followers the heartache.
If they where the regular slip joint or "channel lock pliers with teeth I would agree but these are social flat jaws .
Good to know. Please share that during the video. Sounds like a neat tool. Have you reviewed it?
very informative!
Helpfull thank u ❤
Great video. I was surprised. I thought CO2 would give better penetration.
To be honest though there is so little difference I think cost is king. Welding shops could save a fortune by switching to CO2. Especially if you are only making gates and railings etc.
"Poors." If you're opening molecules, you're going a LOT farther down the physics rabbit hole 🕳 😊
(good video!)
Thanks!
I doubt that 'you open up the molecules' when you are etching, rather you heat the steel, and when apply the etch chemical, the heat makes the etching process faster, and potentially more aggressive. Good episode though.
Thank you
I'm sure preheating will help even more . Incase if I'm having to work with thicker metal or need it to really be strong . Not.gonna lie bro . If it weren't for u I would not have thought primeweld machines would be a good choice to pick from . But honestly .. for the price .. these little welders seem to be some of the best inexpensive welders I seen all through the internet . Like I haven't seen welders like these pull welds that don't have some kind of problem . I weld with wire all day already but we running 480 DC power and all our machines are 600 dc welders with giant wire feeders that push 1/16 wire . But seeing how smooth and how well these machines weld .. especially for the power they pushing .. I'm like all sold in to buying this mig welder and the tig 225
Muito bom/very good
The 75/25 has better penetration on the vertical as well, or equal. Again, look at wire manufacturer’s tables. The Co2 is a completely reactive gas. The welds are more brittle. For home use, Co2 is ok, but needs a bit more heat in the weld.
Nah. CO2 works like a dime with fluxcore. I work with huge engineering firm. We only use co2 with fluxcore.
I also get attached to my broken gloves but it has to be replaced.
What gauge wire are you using and what speed are you running
Thank you
If Co2 runs colder maybe it is better for thin metal sheet like cars.
Straight co2 gas becomes colder the longer you weld. I guess that also affects the bead quality?
Good practical lesson you show👍👍
Nice to see the results and your experienced critique ...
Obviously for the rich 75/25 is the best ..
But for us poor can you demonstrate CO2 V Fluxcore gasless ?
Its and option that I use, but it leaves slag and spatter everywhere ... am I better to get CO2 ? which is relatively cheap ... if I save time on cleaning up fluxcore ?
There isnt a RUclips clip that I can find that compares flux v CO2 ...
When I saw you cut the pieces with the Evolution saw, I lost focus on the video. That things cut through steel like butter. Oh ok good video.
Ya it was definitely a game changer for me . Thanks for watching 😎👊.
Is co2 good for automatic bore welder?I need to build up weld then machine it
U have to give the co2 a bit more power to have the same type of penetration
Great
Maybe do the same test using the correct settings for CO2 then do it again using Co2 settings for both.
Oi, aqui no Brazil se faz muito isso, eu uso co2 na minha pequena fábrica, mas o mix te dá mais tranquilidade para soldar chapas finas e aqui é comum fabricar portões com chapa 22 ou ate 24 para fechamento neste caso o co2 fura mais, mas com cuidados, se economiza bastante.
Bom dia senhor, eu gostaria de comprar uma MIG mas tenho dúvidas quanto ao uso de gás. Tendo em vista que o senhor tem uma boa experiência, que cilindro você usa e quanto tempo ele dura em média com uma frequência de uso todos os dias?
@@erlenmeyer2773 cara, meu cilindro é pequeno de 6kg, bom para serviço externo, a recarga dele me permite soldar 5kg de arame 0.8, a questão do cilindro é que quanto maior. Capacidade menor é o valor da recarga .
@@higinomacedolima8720 Quanto o senhor paga pela recarga de CO2?
Damn, no guard and no gloves had me panacking a bit. Good video though. Plumber by trade here looking into welding for working on my vehicles and miscellaneous around the house.
co2 is cheap and fine for short arc welding. But you cant spray arc weld with it. But for that, you will need at least 220a. And never use settings, in the mid arc area. if you can avoid it. it makes bad welds, with lot of spatter. :) :)
Don't understand what you mean by mid arc area ?
@@amcustomfab That is the area between short and spray arc. around 170-220 amps
This was specifically a demonstration on a 110 volt welder for home fabricators. It was in his opening remarks.
What do you think of using a 50/50 mix argon/co2 mix for cost savings and stil get a decent weld??
Honestly never tried it
I just got a welder yesterday and I already have CO2 from making sparkling water so it looks like I'm set :)
What I would use 100% argon for?
100% argan is used for TIG welding
Tig and mig welding aluminium.
How to adjust flow miter for ar 75% and co2 25%
hello can i fill a new argon tank with c02 if i use the adapter
You can usually exchange them at your supplier
I would be interested in what the seam looks like with 100% Argon. I saw it in a car repair shop and was surprised that 75% argon with 25% CO2 was not used
maybe they weld with WIG, too. Same as me .. to save space I only use 1x 100% Argon bottle ... so i can use MIG or WIG with 1x bottle. a more practical reason.
@@zenrevo2894 what is wig? Also, how do you mig with just argon? I didn’t know you could do that. Is it dual shield?
@@randomschittz9461 Oh sorry.. in english spoken areas its called "TIG". In germany we call it WIG, but its the same as TIG. / Yes u can use 100% Argon for MIG, too. But it is not ideal and not recommend for stainless materials! If it is a matter of space or costs having 2 bottles, you can also consider to use a different pressure reducer, that can mix your main gas with a smaller & cheaper co2 gas (i.e. typical 1x one-time bottles for small price). maybe you find english content here, that explains how to mix gas by your own and link the pressure reducer you need for. if not i can link you a german video.
@@zenrevo2894 wow, thanks! I’ll have to try that.
My understanding is that 70s6 wire should be run with some co2 for the deoxidizers to work, so it should not be run with just argon.
New on mig. I’m more of a hobbyist than a commercial welder. Right now just completing my equipment and about to set them up. Mostly I will be welding steel from 1 to 10 mill thickness. In my place (Iloilo, Philippines) I can`t get mix gas (C25) cylinders. However I can get pure argon and pure CO2. Can I mix these two gasses using the regulators? Say, for a 10 lpm gas flow, C02 regulator is set to 2.5 lpm and argon to 7.5 lpm. Both lines will be connected to a single line to feed mig machine. Would there be any safety issues here. If there is backflow (like argon going into CO2 cylinders when you stop welding) can I use one way valves one the regulators to stop this? Think an added bonus to this is I simply shut off CO2 if will be doing tig on the same machine. Onother is I could vary indefinitely the argon-CO2 mix.
Sorry for the long post but there always seems a ton of questions for every pound of unfamiliar equipment…hahaha. Hope I can learn weld half as good as you. Btw very nice presentation, no bragging, and not only are you telling us what you know but also what you don’t know or not sure off. Thank you for the help.
@@amcustomfab
Greetings too. Yup, your video shows that there`s not much difference structurally. But me, not being a professional, would like the machine to “be more forgiving” (or is it?). Anyways, somebody has to try it and circumstances nominated me…ha ha. Will let you know the outcome.
We have ease up on most restrictions (pandemic) for a few months now. We have an upcoming presidential election next month. Businesses are starting to recover (albeit slowly), Inflation soaring….all’s well or at least better than what I was anticipating (before omicron). Thanks for the concern. All the luck to you.
@@gilbertsolinapopinion2615 Gilbert here's a tip for you, Use co2 only, especially if welding thinner plates. Co2 runs much colder than the argon mix, so u wont blow holes trough thin plates/metal and it cools down faster. (perfect for car body work, rust repairs etc) If you weld something thicker and need penetration, just turn up your power a bit and you will have the same penetration as the mix gas and you will save a lot of money. The only reason why this video shows somewhat of a difference between the welds is because co2 runs colder and due to the settings being totally same, the co2 one doesn't penetrate as much, 2 volts more and result would've been pretty much the same.
If you weld something heavy duty and needs to be in excact specs then u should totally be using proper mix gasses, but if you weld every now and then as a hobby, u will be good only with co2.
Have you ever done it with 100% Argon. Can you blend 2 tanks with a "y", 100 Argon and 100 CO2 with 3 parts flow on the Argon and 1 part flow on the co2 to get a 75/25 mix.
Technically you could but it's never going to be accurate trying it
Actually yes you can buy a mixing valve a lot of companies do this
You keep saying there is not a whole lot of difference but they look very different to me from the side by side...
What size and kind of wire are you using for this test?
.030
Thank you!
So how much$$ do you save between the c25 vs Co2 per bottle?
Co2 is almost half the price of c25 depending on your location
So actually if you have argon for tig it might be worth buying a mixing valve to make 75/25 and buy co2 in its own bottle (sending depending how much you tig vs mig
in my city a 20lb tank of co2 costs $25, and is roughly the equivalent of a 180 cubic foot gas cylinder. a 180 cu/ft cylinder of 75/25 steel mix is $150. so the co2 is significantly cheaper.
What happens when you use a regular air compressor instead of argon for mig welding
Unfortunately that would not work the point of having argon is it is an inert gas. And shields the hot weld from oxygen in the atmosphere. Compressed air is just compressed atmosphere.
@@amcustomfab i was more curious to see what would happen lol
Where can you buy co2 and refills.
All depends on where you're located
I never MIG weld anything using the mixing motion you used, If my amps and wire feed is set right i don't need too. I have welded thousands of Trailer hitches using that type of tubing and my welds have a line straight down the top middle of the weld from the wire feed and no coining marks in the weld, You will find the straight argon leaves a dull finish to the weld almost like a cold weld joint does. If people are using light duty welders and want a hotter weld I would advise using a CO2/Argon mix like Auto Shield 75/25 because the gas help heat up the welding pool and produces a clean shinny weld. If you stop mixing the pool you will get rid of the undercut along the edges of your welds, Learn to set your welder up better and move over to running stringers if you want wider welds like the professionals do and get a larger welder. My welds have been Government tested (TSSA) and acid tested for the Trailer hitch corporation. The problem with mixing the pool is it draws in contaminants from the outer edges of the steel surface which can cause porosity in the weld.
What's the name for the adapter and how much is it?
Link in the description 😎
What about for mix 82% arg/ 18 % c02 ?
Never tried it
How Propane work with MAG? It isn`t inert gas but produce CO2.
Do NOT use propane.
@@amcustomfab I use butane. OK?
Nice welds, i would be upset if you used channel locks on my brass fittings. Just one of those pet peves.
They are straight jaw pliers so it's just like using a crescent wrench in player form brand is knipex check them out I'll leave a link one of my favorite tools. Super high quality.
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Thanks for watching support the channel really appreciate it 😎👊🙏
100% agree regular tooth channel locks are not meant to be used on brass
Did you use the same regulator? I thought straight co2 and c25 used different metering in the regulator.
Nope same one
So. a bit confused in the title. You're comparing 75/25 argon CO2 versus 100% CO2 because it is possible to mig steel with argon
You can mig weld steel with 75 25 mix or straight CO2. You can TIG weld steel with 100% argon
Co2 requires different values,
Then this would be a fair test
You cant use the same parameters with both gases.
I wish I could buy you a pair of gloves. 😥
hay since you asked, the scientific reason behind 25mix penetrating more on the bottom plate is that the weld pool is hotter and less CO2 meaning you have a more liquid beed and less prominent weld pool surface tention meaning it has more time as a liquid on the weld aria digging deeper into the material
if you are welding horizontal with c25 stay just a jiffy longer on the top plate than what you would do with strate co2
No try O2
*_Your anger grinder safety is non existent._*
You have some nice looking welds there. Your gloves, however, are in terrible shape.