100% CO2 vs C25 MIG Mix vs 100% Argon for MIG Welding
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- Опубликовано: 21 окт 2024
- We get the question all the time, "Can I TIG weld with my C25 MIG mix?" Well, with the recent start of the #MIGMonday series, we have been getting a similar question as it pertains to MIG welding:
"Can I MIG weld with 100% Argon from my TIG bottle?"
The short answer is, no, but it's worth showing you why. In this video we will show you the difference between welding with 100% CO2, C25 (MIG mix) and 100% Argon.
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![Mig welding with Argon and Co2 [ Etch Testing]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/C09LC-lltWo/mqdefault.jpg)
Straight to the point and not 15 minutes long filled with fluff. Thank you!
Thank you so much for actually demonstrating the differences rather than just repeating what everyone always says!
Agreed...I'm stick welder for years..just bought my 1st MIG.....went to the shop to grab some gas..as it turns out they only had Argon and no CO2 cause most work around here done w TIG (Thailand)...I had no idea if ARGON was an option. Obviously not.
Thanks for a "hands on" very clear short and to the point vieoeo....Well Done,! Thank you
I don't make a habit of commenting on older videos, but because you have such a stellar reputation in my eyes, I felt I had to.
You guys have taught me so, so much about welding in the last year, and since I'd be wondering about this very question myself, I was excited to stumble upon this video. But I must say, that for once, I finish your video knowing as much about the subject as I did before. Which is to say, nothing.
If you had explained why each gas was suitable for the situation or not based on your experimentation of settings and techniques for each, I would have been satisfied, but this really offers no usable conclusion to the question of "can I use 100% argon to MIG weld Mild steel" beyond "well yes, but really no".
I really like these videos. Very clear, no BS and doesn’t waffle on with useless‘information’ like so many other welding channels. 👍
Man, you answer the right questions, congratulations.
i have always wondered but never spent the time to see - thanks for saving me the curiosity!
Hi,, Thanks for the video,, I'm the weekend tig welder now,,retired pipefitter,,95 percent of my jobs were "tig" root and stick fill an cap,,, I retired and bought a used miller inverter, my miller machine finally broke, so I bought a new lincoln 210 mp,, an inverter like my miller but it has a mig side to it ,,never did much mig welding in my career so I have been learning how to now,, I have been using .35 flux core wire and it works fine for 3/16 thick and up,,but I want to weld automobile quarter panels together ,,the flux core seems to hot for that so I was going to try using 025 wire with argon,,,cause I have the argon bottle already and thought it would work better actually ,,but after seeing your video I can see that just isn't going to work , thanks again Dan
c85 should be best for thinner material
We use .025 all the time at work. 75/25 works just fine. No need to go any fancier.
As always a good info video. As late as yesterday i calld around to se if i could change dealer and the one that i almost went fore told me that co2 i no longer in use when welding. This video even 4 yers old showd me that i can still run 100% co2 rather then 25%.
Thank you!
Main difference between MAG and MIG welding out of many is the ability to stabilise the arc passing through the gas athmosfere. With CO2 you will not focus the arc precisley, it will have tendencies to jump sideways resulting in colder weld, less penetration and a lot of spatter being spreyed sideways with the jumping arc. You can use that method for welding thin ferrous sheets, DIY work where you can get your gas from your local Pub or simply use fire extinguisher. Over 8mm it may take a while to heat up the metal until you reach th edesired penetration.
Argon MIX enables excellent weld pool control, pulsed arc characteristics and ultra low spatter levels, we use many different gases(CO2, Helium,Oxygen, Nitrogen) mixed with Argon for different applications.
Your second test with argonmix is an embarassment for a welder for the: settings, ammount of spatter, shape, sound and I can bet -penetration, just shit in one word.
Third is just a joke for anyone with a basic technical education. 100% Argon doesn’t provide enough thermal conductivity for a fluid weld pool when MIG welding on ferrous metals, resulting in a deep but narrow penetration profile, and minimal fusion. Simply, it will focus the arc too much for this welding method also the welds will be brittle and weak.
I was using flux core wire with 100% argon today and was wondering why it welded so bad and sounded so bad. I did turn up the wire speed like you mentioned and it did do better but not like 100% co2 welds. This video confirmed my suspicion thanks. Need to get co2/argon gas now.
With proper adjustments the co2 can have almost no spatter, but it has to be adjusted differently than the c25 mixture, so of course it will show not as good as weld as the c25 with the same settings.
Can’t believe you didn’t know that you can’t use the same settings with those different gases. Redo this with a Miller Auto-Set capability like a 255 and watch how the settings change as you tell it to use a different gas. Try it, you’ll be surprised.
I go all day with the co2, goes perfectly fine with my lincoln 140 mig
I have the same setup. 20lb aluminum co2 tank.
Good info. I was trying to figure out if I could run 100% Argon and use the same gas to weld aluminum instead of having to deal with a bottle of C25 and a bottle of Argon.
Same here. Such a shame I need to spend even more!
Surprised me, i thought the Argon would shield it ok, amazing how 25% co2 makes it so much better
Different shielding gases gives different penetration traits. Need to adjust feed and amps for this.
if this young man takes some welding classes, he'll be an awesome welder and maybe even teach some day.
Correct I have a young welder that is much better than that.
different gasses take different settings dafuq is this video
This is exactly the info and question I wanted answered, thank you!
except it's 100% wrong
Yeah this didn’t answer anything.
It not 100% wrong and it did answer my question. I have a mig setup with 75/25 and a tig setup with 100% argon (obviously) And was in the middle of a mig project when I ran out of 75/25 and was curious what would happen if I switched over to run my 100% argon. I wanted to see someone do it on RUclips before I switched it in person and this confirmed what I had assumed which was that it wouldn’t work so by sharing this demonstration it saved me time from switching my setup and I learned something new.
Bill Douglas but it does work. You can mig weld with 100% argon but you have to increase voltage/amps and wire speed a bit. So it didn’t answer your question correctly. When welders are properly set there will be very very little if any spatter.
Thanks for demonstrating this. Looks like it's worth the extra bottle.
it would be nice if he explained why the different gasses do what they do.. argon is an inert gas, while co2 is volatile (can't use co2 for TIG)
Using the same welding setting for all three gas mixes might sound like comparing apples with apples - but that's silly, like using low octane fuel in an engine set up for high octane fuel. Of course it won't run so well on the wrong fuel - but re-set the timing and adjust the carby and it will run very nearly as well on low octane as on high octane.
Same with welding gas mixes - I can make 75-25 MIG weld just like the pure argon did in this video - splat-splat and lots of carbon. Just use a wrong flow rate and MIG wire speed. Lots of people use a 12% CO2 mix, especially for light gauge work. In fact that's the only mix my local supplier stocks, and it MIG welds just fine - on the right welder settings.
I only watch mig Monday's I hope they are here for a long time to come
Auto sheet metal rust repair comparison would be interesting. Thin .032 (even thinner in some areas) Had friend who did a lot of welding change from C25 to CO2 and was extremely impressed how much better it was. I started out with C25 and it seemed like it was difficult to get it to burn in and create a puddle (of course, it was less likely to burn thru.) The CO2 seems to burn thru the rust and scale but is more likely to burn thru. Problem with work like this is conditions vary dramatically: butt gap, thick to thin, etc. that are EZ with oxy-acetylene but difficult to manage with one MIG setup - it's not practical to change settings while welding in a patch.
I always useg mig welders in bodyshops. It was the shop's welders and they said it was argon gas. I bought a mig for the home and was talking about getting a tank of argon, and a guy at work said you want co2, not argon for mig welding. I'm glad he said that. What gas is best? I'm mostly going to be welding sheet metal and nothing thicker than 1/4 inch steel.
Use 75/25 mix. Best all around gas for the best price. C02 never looks as good. 90/10 is for pulsed wire setups as far as I know. I've been a welder since 1991, C02 for dual shield, 75/25 for hard wire, TIG is Argon, Helium, or an Argon/Helium mix.
Thank you sr this is the video I was looking for a long time great explanation 👏👍
Looks like this was done without the mill scale removed?
Thank you for this video. I picked up a full bottle of Argon cheap but was unsure if it was useful for MIG.
Thank you, Sir. Hello Cylus!
I always wondered if I can do that. Thanks..
I have a small mig for basic farm repairs and hobbies plus sculpture building I run C25 and own the tank but could I get away with just CO2?? Also even though they are large they have aluminum CO2 tanks at my local growers supply store is that the same CO2 if the valve is the same?? Thanks
Excellent demonstration. Thanks!
Can you try 100 percent t argon withfluxcore
Told me exactly what I wanted to know. Great video!!
Awesome! Thank you!
I like your videos....very informative, clear, and appreciate your experience and perspective. Thank you for making them : )
can you do the same thing with pulling instead of pushing?
Thanks for making this video. I just bought a used MIG that came with a bottle of Argon and it was doing exactly as you have shown. Now I'm going to get some C25, thanks to you.
Good video! Really good demo on the effects of different gases. I've been welding sheet metal and stuff for ages with a MIG and CO2 but just had to weld stainless today. I had trouble figuring out whether my CO2 would work with the 316 wire. Went and bought a small 100% argon bottle and was surprised of the sound and puddle behavior, same sound and characteristics as here! Also tried the 100% CO2.
Any thoughts on seam rust(proof) properties with these different gases?
I must agree with Sam: You're doing apples & oranges here. Turn up the power and wire feed Argon is a cooling agent.
I've only used 90/10 on a job doing like 800 plug welds a day on 16 ga steel and maybe a few fillets on 3/16 and 1/4" stuff, and it always sounds like a nice smooth whisper, none of this static crap. I then worked a place doing lots of short fillet welds on 1" square tubing using 75/25 and it was a little more static sounding but still nothing like this guy's setup. Looking to buy a welder for home and hoping to god my setup doesn't sound or look like this guy's.
@@HydeMyJekyll Agreed, not once was the machine set right. He could have at least picked one gas and set the machine right for a comparison. I've never used anything but 75/25. Haven't found anything I couldn't weld with it yet. Well..... For fancy metals (S.S. etc) I only use TIG, but that's a different deal
Thanks, I was wondering about that.
The Argon doesn't react with the molten metal as much as the other gases, so there is less penetration. Maybe if the heat is increased a bit or two, the weld would be much better with hardly any spatter.
+Cooll Asice
Argon is a noble shielding gas that does not react with the molten puddle, CO2 is a reactive gas that does react react with the molten puddle.
Thanks i love to learn mig welding ,
my favorite is 75/25 think it makes. my welds look better and stronger i have a cheap sears mig 120
can i tig with just air compressor? ty
Great demo Paul - that 100% argon sounded ugly!
My old MIG used just 100% CO2 and didn't do too bad at all.
You Are Awesome Sir. I Always Enjoy Your Videos And Knowledge 👍 Thanks !
The co2 looks like the best.
Must have a certain percentage of an active gas such as, CO2 or Oxygen to attain proper arc energy and penetration in GMAW
For pure argon , arc spray welding works the best.
So high wire and high amps
Interesting video. I've never tried straight CO2 with my everlast mig welder before.
I have an everlast one as well it’s a 110 volt but I have 80 20 argon
If I wanted to run a c75 mix, would I use a co2 or argon bottle?
Argon bottle
Why do you get soot when using straight argon. I would have expected it to be cleaner. I've been a trade welder for the last 17 years I use pure argon on Tig and c25 for Mig . I don't understand why the pure argon doesn't work with Mig.
+scott carr Question of settings, argon will produce excellent welds also... Lesser penetration though... ;)
lesser penetration on short circuit, not spray arc
Years ago I welded with argon no issues. But now I ran into the same problem and couldn’t figure out what the difference is. Two different machines miller syncrowave 210 and Hobart 240 iron man both miller products can anyone explain what phenomenon is happening I have no clue why then a transformer welder would work fine but now inverter welder does not like it!
Im a beginner. And about to buy a bottle and intend on only buying one tank for both tig and mig what gas mix ahould i buy
Can you use the same regulator on argon mix and pure co2
u can use the same regulator but need an adapter to fit a co2 tank.
Well, I'm an idiot...I bought a MIG welder some years ago, but have only tried using it once and it didn't seem to work very well, and now I know why. I bought 100% argon for the shielding gas, because that's what I used with the TIG welder I used a lot in the welding class I'd taken. I assumed the same gas would be good for the MIG as well...
I haven't watch you much but your so much more simpler then Bob.
Thank you Paul very informative..
Great video - well done! Helped me answer the exact question i was pondering, so thanks for doing this.
What V/A settings used please
How do you think CO2 would have fared at 100%? Thanks for posting.
What about pub nitrogen co2?
Pure argon however is fine for thin gauge St/st and aluminium 👍
Really ?
Thanks! Really helps!
what ate the price differences comparing the different gases in the same size tank ?
varies greatly by location. call a few local distributors
can you do this same comparison on Stainless Steel? Also for same material shown in this video to be welded what would the outcome be with CO2 18% and Agon 82%?
Ive run 95/5 mix on .308-.316 stainless. 👍🏽
18+82 is better for carbon steels. For SST it;s better 98Ar+2O2 (Oxigen).
I know this is old but I mig welded with 100 argon and my welder was left at same settings and it never had that issue even sounded almost identical as If it was 25 co2 but you could hear the sound difference but not like this is the video so it’s weird this happened here in the video
As someone who does it for a living... NONE of those were set right. Didn't even have to watch, once you've had wire set right you can hear from across the shop if it's wrong. But the info is correct, use a 75/25 mix for hardwire. Unless you have a pulse mig machine, then it's a 90/10 mix. I haven't used one yet but I'd sure like to
thank you for making this great video , its what i was looking for because in my country i can't find 75-25 mixed gases just 100% co2 .
regards.
+toolman talal
what gases are good for Mig weld a stainless steel and aluminum
+toolman talal 1
100 % argon for aluminium. Believe there is a tri mix for stainless.
Hi Silas 👋 😊
thanks , great vidéo!
I had TIG for about a year before I got my MIG welder, so I tried using 100% Argon on my MIG welder. You can turn up the voltage and increase the wire feed, and actually come up with a somewhat decent looking weld... but I wouldn't trust it in any real world application. It doesn't look right, and doesn't sound right, so you know something is wrong.
its for spray arc not short circuit
matt taylor it’s not. Spray starts at 85/15, and goes to about 92/8. Pure argon isn’t good at all. Cut and etch the welds and you’ll see.
I don’t know why but I have a cylinder of 95 Aragon and 5% OXYGEN. For MIG welding clean mild steel, should I just change it out or go ahead and use it?
Was using argon because I had a tig setup recently bought a mig welder used the 100 argon and couldnt figure out why it was welding horribly guess this answers that thanks
very helpful thanks!
OK, same question opposite process. Tig on different gasses?
I use 100% argon for beautification welding with my esab migmaster 250, you or your machine are out of whack, 100% argon is awesome for spray Arc transfer, little to non spatter.
I agree. it should run just a smooth as co2
Perfect vid for sitting on the pot
Try 50/50 argon and co2 sometime and show us how it does.
Very informative. Thank you!
What the hell are those welds... I’m very happy bob is the guy in charge now...
I want to try mig welding with my everlast welder and CO2. I've never tried it before.
With 75 25 that I use I get no Splater and nice bead something to do with setting thing correctly I guess I'm not expert welder but I know how to set up a mig
Nice video thank you
Hi Silas
wouldn't using different gas change the temp off the welds so you would need different settings
yes
jason van wilgen i
I wonder if car exhaust would work.
Shielding gas will change the required voltage to make a sound weld.
I'm new at welding (hobby) with a little hvac background. I think the difference is mainly because of different gases have different evaporation temperatures. All three gases naturally displace oxygen(shielding) around the molten puddle area, however they evaporate (change from liquid to gas as it leaves the bottle) at different temperatures. I don't thinks they cause a chemical reaction (they are inert I think?)
I think a colder gas for tig (argon) which needs precise heat control on a spot for longer periods of time a slow process and needs to dissipate heat build up constantly; and a slightly less colder gas (CO2) for mig which is faster/rougher/cheaper process, covers more area faster with less heat build up in one place needing less gas/cooling time/less cooling temp but not as precise as tig.
Too much flow of CO2 will mess with a weld ; too little CO2 will mess it too. I'm probably wrong, but working on getting it right... Any care to chip-in?
Can you touch on using flux core compared to shielded gas mig welding in a future video? It's been my experience that I get better results with the flux core depending on what I'm welding.
+D Fuller ruclips.net/video/FGBAnet13cE/видео.html
Dang it... i had my hopes up for %100 argon, looks like ill be headed to the weld shop for another bottle..
thanks, that was very helpful.
Always a pleasure +Wayne Veit
how can we actually find the quality of Argon gas ?
purity percentage on the suppliers website
Welding with pure argon feels like shaite. It feels like if you try to TIG with a blunt electrode inside corner and arch wonders around. But if you percist and ignore the feeling - you can lay down some good welds. Why would you do it? Certain stainless and cast iron wires require pure argon.
Dont argue people. Just try it like him and see for yourself. I am sure all here have C25 and 100% Argon. Just try it and report back. I will try tomorrow.
Nice video..Thanks a lot for your time and effort. I like the "Steel mix" 25/75. HAPPY NEW YEAR.
The %100 Co2 sounded the best!
Great video from a knowledgable master...thankyou
Good information.👍👍👍👍
Thanks
Is the best mix 75% argon and 25% C02 for Mig on steel?
They can all work just fine. Proper metal prep, machine settings and gun angles are what is needed. CO at 100% works fine. You just have to tune the machine for whatever gas your using and metal your welding. Practice, practice, practice
75/25 is the best for sure. It is the industry standard.