I would like to see a full flight with these settings. i know ur other videos prob use these settings but still love watching u fly. pretty dope! I would also love to see more videos about reading black box logs.
Timmy, I'm so sad that I only found your video today, been suffering with 4.2 for a year now... Followed your guide here and Chris Rossers "5 tips to help your quad fly its best!" filter settings and I cannot thank both of you enough! FINALLY my nazgul flies like I remember bf3.6, without RC smoothing even my TX16s inputs are a ton smoother than it was previously. I feel in control for the first time since 4 years back! You're a life saver bro!
Wow!!! You just made it all better for me. I haven't been happy with my quad for over a year and it because I started moving firmware up to date. I quit flying cuz it just sucked But now it's like was before. So I'm buying some shit now lol. Thanks man I really appreciate you
I get it 100 percent that this is very personal to each and every pilot because it has to do with how a person flies and how it feels to them and their own style. But I would argue that from a scientific standpoint that your quadcopter is actually not following setpoint as close as it could if you had some ,not all, of the features turned on. No matter what there is going to be some lag introduced because a pidloop works by measuring error from the setpoint and those features are there to tighten up that lag. The most perfectly tuned quad is gonna have some lag. So they use feed forward and d min to tighten it up and be able to follow setpoint alot closer. So in the name of science you would probably get a craft following set point closer using some of the features than just the pid loop as you are now. Just my two cents. Great video. And you are 100 percent right about having good electronics.
Thanks! I briefly mentioned exactly what you are talking about in the video. I err on the side of not responsive enough (features off) versus the side of over-reactivity (caused by sub-optimally tuned features). Another big factor for me is being able to turn off RC Smoothing (thus reducing input delay) without having to worry about the dynamic PID features potentially acting up due to RC signal jitters.
@@TimmyRC you are definitely right with how you tune your pid loop without all that other jazz affecting how it works. I do think though that once you start getting into all the features it becomes much more of a personal preference. You are a very good pilot and have been doing this for a long while. I'm sure you came to this setup upon many different variations of things and now you are comfortable and used to the way your machine flies so anything closer to setpoint for you is going to feel jittery to you because you are accustomed to the latency of your machine and it's coherent with your flying style where someone else who uses feed forward and some other things to get closer to the setpoint of their machine and just for kicks let's say they have the same exact set up as you. They could fly yours and it may feel to floaty or laggy to them because they are used to something tracking a little tighter. I just feel having these features is a good thing and it drives the flight experience to be that much better for what any one person's flavor is. I don't think I would call it just a cover up for bad hardware.
@@TimmyRC I think UAV tech put it. Just some tools in the toolbox for you to use if you desire. Believe me. I'm not taking away anything in how you do things. I think you are an amazing pilot. I love your setup. That's the coolest quad ever. Really smooth footage and I'm sure it has alot to do with skill. Just people love to argue what is right and wrong when it's in my opinion a really personal choice to some degree and with how you get the optimal tune without all the stuff affecting it you can't argue with that. Keep up the great content and flight footage.
@@TimmyRC And for the record. I like a smoother less jittery feel myself and have started turning things off myself. I have found I feel alot more in control with some forgiving settings.
3.5.7 felt great to me. As the newer versions came out they felt less and less connected to the quad, more robotic. I hate feed forward and always turn it off. I'll be turning off more stuff now. Thanks for the advice.
I don't feel the same way but i agree with what you said about 3.5.7. That was a great jump in terms of control. I still remember how exited i was because my quad felt so good! 4.2 is fine imo. But the pids are sloppy. That's why I'm here ;)
@@TimeFadesMemoryLasts I've been hearing good things about 4.3 features, like slider tuning in the OSD. I didn't know there are flight performance improvements too but that sounds promising and I'm looking forward to trying it out!
@@flipfpv Hehe, the flight performance improvements are HUGE. Perfect gyro and pid loop timing (had a lot of jitter before), completely overhauled RC code including way smoother feedforward without jitter, dynamic notch on steroids, RPM filter improvements, better Anti-Gravity, just way smoother and cooler motors jadda jadda.... If you have crossfire, tracer or ELRS you'll get the most benefits from the new RC and ff code. If it was trash before, you might want to give it another chance. FrSky still doesn't behave perfectly but only because they don't want to fix their software. Still flies way better than on 4.2, though. FF is way better, even on FrSky. The Emuflight devs are already copying all the BF 4.3 code into their project because it flies so good that they want a piece of it. With little filtering on gyro (1x static lowpass at 500Hz) and normal D-term filtering (slider at x1.2 or something low like that) and good PIDs, the quad is sharp as a razor blade. 🙂 You will also be able to try different tunes with a few clicks because the BF configurator will get a "Presets" tab where you can share and try different tunes.
@@TimeFadesMemoryLasts Wow, that sounds awesome! I gave up Frsky and mainly just fly crossfire and tracer now - crossfire for freestyle/long range and tracer for racing. Seems like you might be a dev yourself, or have some inside knowledge at least. Thanks for the info, I can't wait to try it now!
This is really a great back to basics tutorial while still leveraging some of the excellent filtering of the newer betaflight versions. Its easy to get carried away trying new features thinking your tune will get that much better. If you are using quality components and have a good base tune then less is more.
Hi greay video i will try this settings first. But i ve a problem with only one quad in case of Wind back, if i release throttle, the quad speed up for a bit. Like ive no response. Thanks a lot for your content
Timmy, your gifted the way you explain. For us foreign speaking guys, its critical that the information is explained with clear calm voice, and not speaking too fast. Have seen enough video clips which i only understood about 75% of the information because they just talk too fast and the words "melted" together, and for me who dont have english as main language, i can asure you, its way harder to hear fast speaking english vids. Sorry for my bad english...:-) One tip, Mark your vids with the Betaflight version, like "The Best Settings for Betaflight 4.2.0"...???
Thanks! These settings can be used on any version of Betaflight within the past few years, so I did not specifically state the version I was using in this video.
@@TimmyRC Thx for the additional info.👍 I was not aware of that. There is so many vids out there of tuning, many which is kind of outdated, so i look for the most recent date and BF version in my search. But hey, please dont misunderdtand, this is not criticism, just my way of finding the most updated info.😁
You have the wrong idea about basicly everything you turned off. You can absolutely tune like this, But some of the features are meant to solve some problems that occur with just p i and d. For instance, FF works off set point not pid error like p term does. So if you really want a quad that follows exactly what you told it to do. Feed forward is the answer to that. D min works as a way to actually get really high d gains when you need them for prop wash menuvers and lower d when you really don't need it. I term relax is good because no matter how good you tune your pids. You still get i term windup when you don't need want it. I can go on. Using hot motors as a clue about when to stop bringing your filters up works for some quads. But sometimes it doesn't. You can bring that slider all the way up to 2 times the original value with no hot motors. But on a 6" quad the low pass filters aren't doing much of anything after say 1.5. You might as well just turn them off. Not trying to be mean. Maybe take a look at UavTech tuning video's. That man knows his stuff. I've learned a lot from him. Again, this is definitely one way to tune. It's your quad.
I'm new to the hobby. I'm talking from less than a year of experience. I think the idea here is to first disable all of BF's "advanced solutions for advanced problems" features off, establish a SOLID PID tune, and then turn on and tune the advanced features in BF as they apply to YOUR individual needs. I could be talking out of my ass, but in MY experience, with my first two 5" kwads, this method has helped me so much. I then read info on all those other features and one by one, as necessary, I turned them on and still attempt to dial them in perfectly. I watch UAVTech tuning videos also, and have learned a lot from him as well; and I love how he gets into the quantum-verse - but I still love Timmy's method. I think that UAVTech is great for DEEP dives regarding tuning, for more advanced pilots. Anyway, just my two cents. Be easy brother - happy flying.
The problem I have with feed forward is that I’m not as accurate with tricks as my timing is messed up since it’s based off of how fast/aggressive I move the sticks. So I prefer it off and a high p setting. Am I wrong in that scenario?
@@JohnDoe-or3hc no not wrong. Individual preference is just what I would call it. You can tune how ff works and gets applied. One thing you can try is putting a value of 1 in the ff transition spot. It will give a percentage of the ff you have set for each axis equal to how far you deflect the stick. Its very smooth. In other words it will be 100 % of your ff value at a 100% percent stick deflection. 10% of your ff value at 10% stick deflection.
ピラてラヂオFPV ahh I don’t have actual rates as I’m using bf 3.5.7 on an f3, I’m building an f7 so I’ll make a note to mess about with that. Speaking of radio link you reminded me with frsky on stock pid I had a value of 150 FF and when I got tango 2 crsf shot I had to tune the quad because it felt so different and that’s how I ended up with higher p and no FF. and realising the consistency of tricks that I mentioned previously. So I wonder how much the radio link plays into it...
Chris Mouw Thanks for the tip, I’m kinda getting my heading around the way BF does percentages with TPA (so far experimenting with 35 at 1850 and getting slight wobbles). so I’ll also give transition a go too!
7:10 - check out i-Term Clamping in control. Relax locks and does not turn down: ruclips.net/video/NVLXCwc8HzM/видео.html Advice is pretty good and refreshing to hear, but the i-Term Relax advice is going to throw off you tune because of i-Term Windup you get without FeedForward. Since P-Term only reacts to Error (as you know) it always has a lot of error in sharp moves (twitch or full rate) which causes i-Term windup and i-Term bounceback. RC smoothing is because RX signal comes in as stair steps. Smoothing smooths that into a line. Without smoothing you will see motor command spikes because of Error humping (due to stair steps) and of course that translates to the motor commands. This is how KISS works actually and YOU ARE RIGHT, if you don't use any thing to advance the quad movement in sharp moves, like FF or D-Term Kick, it flies fine and more "raw" without RC smoothing, but it does limit you from using thing like FF to track the sticks precisely. Since Peter Molly reacts on error and of course you don't have air if you're tracking sticks precisely.
Thanks! Excellent video you linked. I had no idea MATLAB made videos like that. People are telling me you are the tuning master. Based on the video you linked, I Term Relax does not take into account stick acceleration? So this means it is safe to run with RC smoothing turned off? RC Smoothing is ironic to me because it adds latency in order to allow features to more precisely track the stick motions, which is a contradiction. But if I can turn on I Term Relax without needing to turn on RC Smoothing, I will definitely try that.
@@TimmyRC , yes. Not acceleration. It just is a highpass filter on stick moves to detect fast stick movements and locks I-Term. It unlocks when you hit the desired rotation rate. Yes it adds 6 milliseconds of delay but then you can reduce 20ms. So it overcomes the six it adds and plus reduces another 14ms+.
@Ballard Yes, I tried turning on I-term relax while keeping the rest of my settings the same. It reduced bounce-back significantly, but the stick feel felt more unnatural (likely due to the constant changing of the I-term values) so I ended up turning it back off.
Hey Timmy. First off, let me say that I am in the 15.4% 😁 I love your videos for many reasons, mostly though I really like the way that you explain tuning in general. It makes more sense to me when you break it down for me. You have a similar video to this one, which I continue to watch over and over, where you strip away all of the more "medicinal" features in BF, and that stripping down really helped me to begin tuning my first every kwads. You have another video, where you tune PID's and explain how it feels when a PID value is too low, or too high. I look forward to your videos, and although I know that you can only do so many videos regarding tuning kwads, here are some suggestions I'd like to see: Deeper dive into tuning and filtering, like blackbox level probe into say a vibration issue and how to identify it and resolve it Tuning smaller craft. I'm building an Armattan Tadpole and mulling it over in my head, the tune must be way different than my 5". Anyway I thank you, and I look forward to your vids. Sorry that I wrote a book 🤐
Thanks, glad to hear you are enjoying my videos! I appreciate the video suggestions, however I do not use Blackbox or fly small quads, so as of now I do not have the expertise to make videos on those topics.
Great video. I am not that good at tuning. But i had a pretty solid tune on my kwad the other day. I didnt change any values and it flew not so solid any more. I had more propwash and some dipping on roll when i let off the throttle. Can the tempurature change that. It flew good in a humid 85 degree day. But not so much when it was 70 and no humidity.
Thanks! Temperature and humidity affect the fluid properties of air, so it is possible that had an effect on your tune. However, I have personally never encountered tuning issues due to changes in temperature and humidity. I would try fresh props and make sure everything is tight and mechanically sound and see if you still get the same issues.
@@TimmyRC Thank you for the response. I did have a pretty nasty crash however and changed an arm. Also one of the motors have a slight grinding sound in my hd footage. Although all the motors seem fine on the bench. I just bought the Zeez 4in1 esc and i am gonna try your tuning guide and start with a fresh tune when i get it installed.
I'm guessing this is more of a rates issue for you. How fast the quad rotates relative to your stick position is determined by rates, in which case I would recommend turning down your rates: ruclips.net/video/R8TvR1bY0bM/видео.html
For channel smoothing, check you logs ;) For filtering you should check UAVtech channel. Basically just enable notch on gyro and low pass on Dterm is enought
@@rawpicsfpv3516 exactly. Thus is how these BF Geeks say things. Use emuflight you'll be amazed. No one wants to sit in front of computer screens all days tuning and I found emuflight presets A HUGE ADVANTAGE! BF is geared more towards the geeks who love burning there eyes up looking at Computer screens and screwing around with settings and filters that really aren't necessary for the common quad freestyle or cruise pilots. BF imo is a race quad UI and this makes things difficult for common people who have full time jobs and cant afford time.
Emuflight is basically BF with some more agressive tuning by default, to work well on a 5''. If you understand filtering, PIDs.... you can get the feeling you want with BF. As you said, BF need to fly on a very large scale of quad, that is why default setting are average
Emuflight works much better on quads smaller then 5“ as well. I haven‘t had a copter with current Emuflight that wasn‘t running better on stock settings than with Betaflight 4.2. Will try it on a 7“ soon, maybe there Betaflight will be the winner. Sure, you can tune any quad to fly great with Betaflight, but going through the 1001 settings and tips takes up so much time.... i highly suggest trying out Emuflight if you‘re not satisfied with stock settings on Betaflight. Changing back is super easy.
@@eyeflytinkerings Yes, you can switch between firmwares and just use whichever default tune is better for your setup. However, taking the time to tune will give you vastly superior flight performance than any firmware's defaults. In addition, reflashing the flight controller and configuring all of the basic settings is still time-intensive. I personally do not care what the default settings are and I wouldn't switch firmwares just because I disagree with the defaults.
Hi Tim! I have quick question for you. Ever since 4.2 I've been battling bad oscillations while cruising around not really on punch out. Its 5in default setup. Anyhow think it may have been my o ring on bottom of esc spread out and think esc was on bottom aluminum plate in front. Haven't tested yet. But my question really is that I seen when people were updating to 4.2 they were turning bi directional on for the filtering. Well I found out after that my esc is not updated for that yet and when Ijust enabled it the quad started beeping like crazy so i right away turned it back off and beeping stopped. So didn't fly it or anything it was like 20 seconds right there on bench. Would doing that damage my esc or anything? I switched it back pretty quick but hope didn't mess it up lol
Right on!! Well this morning I took the leap into updating my esc.its blheli_s. Got the 16.73 all installed and went fine. Going back to betaflight and switching bi directional dshot on I'm still getting steady load tone soon as I click save reboot. Everything seems working right. But it also makes tone with no battery just hooking up usb. Grrr I'm so close lol. Any idea? Almost like a alarm
@@CrawlersCampRc From my understanding blheli_s does not support bidirectional dshot, but blheli_32 does. However, I believe there are some modified versions of blheli_s that do support bidirectional dshot.
It is personal preference. I prefer having it off because I prioritize turning off RC smoothing (thus decreasing input delay) without having to worry about the dynamic PID features getting upset by RC signal jitters. Yes, I have some bounce back in my tune, but you will never see it in my freestyle flying.
How likely is a flyaway if I push the filter sliders further over to the right? Just a bit worried I may destroy my quad or hurt a dog walker at my spot lol.
It doesn't hurt to try, but keep in mind that a lot of the features I like to turn off are quite helpful for whoop-style multirotors like the Tiny Hawk that have inherently poor aerodynamic and control authority characteristics.
@Ballard I do not have a TinyHawk or any drones smaller than 5" at the moment, so I can't really provide any small-quad specific tuning tips. However, turning off airmode generally will not benefit control authority at any altitude or throttle setting.
So would you say that if you wanted a super smooth cinematic rig you would want to leave all the settings and PID changes you mentioned at default? Good vid, I will def try these settings on my 5 inch and see how it feels. I am really more interested in getting some issues with my 7 inch cinematic rig worked out, any chance you may due a tuning vid for that?👍👍 if I could.
@@TimmyRC I have a small bobble or almost like a fast twitch when just cruising and its not really constant, even when I just let it fly itself, take my fingers off. If there is like 0 wind it is not that noticeable in my HD video footage but if the wind is even 5-10mph it gets a lot more noticeable (using Runcam 5). I am going to do what you suggested and look at the BF tuning guides but if you do a video I will be there. Thank you and I will try the feed forward off, makes sense.
Any ESC that can run the latest version of BLHeli_32. You can also reflash BLHeli_S ESCs to a different firmware that also has support for Bidirectional DSHOT.
I don't like to share my rates since they will not feel the same on other transmitters and setups compared to how they feel on my transmitter and my setup. However, I have a rates tuning tutorial if you want to dial in your rates: ruclips.net/video/R8TvR1bY0bM/видео.html
Dude, You've certainly been as depressed as me by BF4.3, especially the fact that they nearly fulled the F411 memory with unpredictable features🤦♂ As a whoop user I still didn't get the point of throttle boost (positive expo work perfectly...) Some can help, but they shouldn't be activated from stock. Thanks for the analysis, community need more content like that 👊
May i ask if these walues of P, I, and D are recommended? You did not actually mention them other then go check your pid tuning guide. I'm new, and just like to know which pid settings other than the stock ones i could start from. I understand that every drone is unique, but.... (its a 5" drone on 4s) Its kind of funny though, before i watched your "Betaflight 4.2. first impressions" video i tested my first Betaflight FC (with 4.2.3.) on stock pid settings and it felt kind of sluggish... and you said the same in that video, so yeah, that must mean i'm not totally "off" lol.
Those are not my recommended PID values. I do not have recommended PID values because the "best" PID values change depending on the quadcopter. If you don't want to tune PIDs just stick with the defaults, but know that you are leaving extra performance on the table. If you want that extra performance, you have to learn how to tune PIDs: ruclips.net/video/04Ixyomu9d8/видео.html
@@TimmyRC Cool man! Hey I disabled all those setting on your video. It flys good, but i have some issue on the roll..LOL.. when I roll the left is like doing slow motion. But on the left roll is normal.. What give? thx
I flew default betaflight pids for a while, just recently started tuning and checking blackbox logs to get better results and I must say HUGE differences night and day I don't think I could not tune quads now moving forward. Great video 👍
I really appreciate your work and the insights you post in your channel but I think your PID adjustment guide was a wrong video. In that video you made some attempts that didn't make clear the problems to be adjusted with each single value. I suggest you try to redo that video more clearly by explaining the steps for those who are not experts like you and highlighting more clearly how to correct and what to correct
Thanks! In that video I deliberately explained and demonstrated the individual effects of high and low P, I, and D values separately before actually tuning the quad. The unfortunate truth about PID tuning is that sometimes you have to change multiple values at once to address a single problem. I put a ton of work into that video and explained PID tuning to the best of my ability, but the only way to actually learn PID tuning is by trying it yourself and seeing/feeling what changing the values does.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
What other instructional content do you want to see?
Falcox! :)
I would like to see a full flight with these settings. i know ur other videos prob use these settings but still love watching u fly. pretty dope! I would also love to see more videos about reading black box logs.
how did you drop ff to 0 and keep the sliders enabled? it will only let me go as low as 40, if i type in 0 the sliders go away.
Been awhile since you put out any trick theory.... love those and would enjoy hearing about any new tricks and ideas.
Every flight video from the past ~6 months uses these settings. And there are more coming.
Timmy, I'm so sad that I only found your video today, been suffering with 4.2 for a year now... Followed your guide here and Chris Rossers "5 tips to help your quad fly its best!" filter settings and I cannot thank both of you enough! FINALLY my nazgul flies like I remember bf3.6, without RC smoothing even my TX16s inputs are a ton smoother than it was previously. I feel in control for the first time since 4 years back! You're a life saver bro!
Thanks!
Wow!!! You just made it all better for me. I haven't been happy with my quad for over a year and it because I started moving firmware up to date. I quit flying cuz it just sucked But now it's like was before. So I'm buying some shit now lol. Thanks man I really appreciate you
that medicine analogy was great, thanks for sharing!
Thanks!
I get it 100 percent that this is very personal to each and every pilot because it has to do with how a person flies and how it feels to them and their own style. But I would argue that from a scientific standpoint that your quadcopter is actually not following setpoint as close as it could if you had some ,not all, of the features turned on. No matter what there is going to be some lag introduced because a pidloop works by measuring error from the setpoint and those features are there to tighten up that lag. The most perfectly tuned quad is gonna have some lag. So they use feed forward and d min to tighten it up and be able to follow setpoint alot closer. So in the name of science you would probably get a craft following set point closer using some of the features than just the pid loop as you are now. Just my two cents. Great video. And you are 100 percent right about having good electronics.
Thanks! I briefly mentioned exactly what you are talking about in the video. I err on the side of not responsive enough (features off) versus the side of over-reactivity (caused by sub-optimally tuned features). Another big factor for me is being able to turn off RC Smoothing (thus reducing input delay) without having to worry about the dynamic PID features potentially acting up due to RC signal jitters.
@@TimmyRC you are definitely right with how you tune your pid loop without all that other jazz affecting how it works. I do think though that once you start getting into all the features it becomes much more of a personal preference. You are a very good pilot and have been doing this for a long while. I'm sure you came to this setup upon many different variations of things and now you are comfortable and used to the way your machine flies so anything closer to setpoint for you is going to feel jittery to you because you are accustomed to the latency of your machine and it's coherent with your flying style where someone else who uses feed forward and some other things to get closer to the setpoint of their machine and just for kicks let's say they have the same exact set up as you. They could fly yours and it may feel to floaty or laggy to them because they are used to something tracking a little tighter. I just feel having these features is a good thing and it drives the flight experience to be that much better for what any one person's flavor is. I don't think I would call it just a cover up for bad hardware.
@@Kajedkid I agree. It's good that we have options to choose from.
@@TimmyRC I think UAV tech put it. Just some tools in the toolbox for you to use if you desire. Believe me. I'm not taking away anything in how you do things. I think you are an amazing pilot. I love your setup. That's the coolest quad ever. Really smooth footage and I'm sure it has alot to do with skill. Just people love to argue what is right and wrong when it's in my opinion a really personal choice to some degree and with how you get the optimal tune without all the stuff affecting it you can't argue with that. Keep up the great content and flight footage.
@@TimmyRC And for the record. I like a smoother less jittery feel myself and have started turning things off myself. I have found I feel alot more in control with some forgiving settings.
3.5.7 felt great to me. As the newer versions came out they felt less and less connected to the quad, more robotic. I hate feed forward and always turn it off. I'll be turning off more stuff now. Thanks for the advice.
I don't feel the same way but i agree with what you said about 3.5.7. That was a great jump in terms of control. I still remember how exited i was because my quad felt so good! 4.2 is fine imo. But the pids are sloppy. That's why I'm here ;)
Then you might like what Betaflight 4.3 is going to bring to the table, flight performance wise.
@@TimeFadesMemoryLasts I've been hearing good things about 4.3 features, like slider tuning in the OSD. I didn't know there are flight performance improvements too but that sounds promising and I'm looking forward to trying it out!
@@flipfpv Hehe, the flight performance improvements are HUGE. Perfect gyro and pid loop timing (had a lot of jitter before), completely overhauled RC code including way smoother feedforward without jitter, dynamic notch on steroids, RPM filter improvements, better Anti-Gravity, just way smoother and cooler motors jadda jadda....
If you have crossfire, tracer or ELRS you'll get the most benefits from the new RC and ff code. If it was trash before, you might want to give it another chance. FrSky still doesn't behave perfectly but only because they don't want to fix their software. Still flies way better than on 4.2, though. FF is way better, even on FrSky.
The Emuflight devs are already copying all the BF 4.3 code into their project because it flies so good that they want a piece of it.
With little filtering on gyro (1x static lowpass at 500Hz) and normal D-term filtering (slider at x1.2 or something low like that) and good PIDs, the quad is sharp as a razor blade. 🙂 You will also be able to try different tunes with a few clicks because the BF configurator will get a "Presets" tab where you can share and try different tunes.
@@TimeFadesMemoryLasts Wow, that sounds awesome! I gave up Frsky and mainly just fly crossfire and tracer now - crossfire for freestyle/long range and tracer for racing. Seems like you might be a dev yourself, or have some inside knowledge at least. Thanks for the info, I can't wait to try it now!
This is really a great back to basics tutorial while still leveraging some of the excellent filtering of the newer betaflight versions. Its easy to get carried away trying new features thinking your tune will get that much better. If you are using quality components and have a good base tune then less is more.
Thanks! That is precisely my tuning philosophy.
hey man, thank you for the video I never thought that I could throw my copter through the air like that, just awesome
Fantastic advice! I have been doing most of this already and I love how the quad responds exactly the way I tell it too.
Thanks!
Hi greay video i will try this settings first. But i ve a problem with only one quad in case of Wind back, if i release throttle, the quad speed up for a bit. Like ive no response.
Thanks a lot for your content
great settings. Natural feeling. Good job!!!
Thanks!
Timmy, your gifted the way you explain. For us foreign speaking guys, its critical that the information is explained with clear calm voice, and not speaking too fast. Have seen enough video clips which i only understood about 75% of the information because they just talk too fast and the words "melted" together, and for me who dont have english as main language, i can asure you, its way harder to hear fast speaking english vids. Sorry for my bad english...:-)
One tip, Mark your vids with the Betaflight version, like "The Best Settings for Betaflight 4.2.0"...???
Thanks! These settings can be used on any version of Betaflight within the past few years, so I did not specifically state the version I was using in this video.
@@TimmyRC Thx for the additional info.👍 I was not aware of that. There is so many vids out there of tuning, many which is kind of outdated, so i look for the most recent date and BF version in my search. But hey, please dont misunderdtand, this is not criticism, just my way of finding the most updated info.😁
You have the wrong idea about basicly everything you turned off. You can absolutely tune like this, But some of the features are meant to solve some problems that occur with just p i and d. For instance, FF works off set point not pid error like p term does. So if you really want a quad that follows exactly what you told it to do. Feed forward is the answer to that. D min works as a way to actually get really high d gains when you need them for prop wash menuvers and lower d when you really don't need it. I term relax is good because no matter how good you tune your pids. You still get i term windup when you don't need want it. I can go on. Using hot motors as a clue about when to stop bringing your filters up works for some quads. But sometimes it doesn't. You can bring that slider all the way up to 2 times the original value with no hot motors. But on a 6" quad the low pass filters aren't doing much of anything after say 1.5. You might as well just turn them off. Not trying to be mean. Maybe take a look at UavTech tuning video's. That man knows his stuff. I've learned a lot from him. Again, this is definitely one way to tune. It's your quad.
I'm new to the hobby. I'm talking from less than a year of experience.
I think the idea here is to first disable all of BF's "advanced solutions for advanced problems" features off, establish a SOLID PID tune, and then turn on and tune the advanced features in BF as they apply to YOUR individual needs.
I could be talking out of my ass, but in MY experience, with my first two 5" kwads, this method has helped me so much. I then read info on all those other features and one by one, as necessary, I turned them on and still attempt to dial them in perfectly.
I watch UAVTech tuning videos also, and have learned a lot from him as well; and I love how he gets into the quantum-verse - but I still love Timmy's method. I think that UAVTech is great for DEEP dives regarding tuning, for more advanced pilots. Anyway, just my two cents. Be easy brother - happy flying.
The problem I have with feed forward is that I’m not as accurate with tricks as my timing is messed up since it’s based off of how fast/aggressive I move the sticks. So I prefer it off and a high p setting. Am I wrong in that scenario?
@@JohnDoe-or3hc no not wrong. Individual preference is just what I would call it. You can tune how ff works and gets applied. One thing you can try is putting a value of 1 in the ff transition spot. It will give a percentage of the ff you have set for each axis equal to how far you deflect the stick. Its very smooth. In other words it will be 100 % of your ff value at a 100% percent stick deflection. 10% of your ff value at 10% stick deflection.
ピラてラヂオFPV ahh I don’t have actual rates as I’m using bf 3.5.7 on an f3, I’m building an f7 so I’ll make a note to mess about with that. Speaking of radio link you reminded me with frsky on stock pid I had a value of 150 FF and when I got tango 2 crsf shot I had to tune the quad because it felt so different and that’s how I ended up with higher p and no FF. and realising the consistency of tricks that I mentioned previously. So I wonder how much the radio link plays into it...
Chris Mouw Thanks for the tip, I’m kinda getting my heading around the way BF does percentages with TPA (so far experimenting with 35 at 1850 and getting slight wobbles). so I’ll also give transition a go too!
Great video. What do you do about TPA? Leave it default?
Thanks! I usually don't bother messing with it, but sometimes I will make the breakpoint value lower for 6 inch.
Keep up the good work!
Thanks!
Impressive discussion bruhhh. Will always wait for your uploads!
Thanks!
7:10 - check out i-Term Clamping in control. Relax locks and does not turn down: ruclips.net/video/NVLXCwc8HzM/видео.html
Advice is pretty good and refreshing to hear, but the i-Term Relax advice is going to throw off you tune because of i-Term Windup you get without FeedForward. Since P-Term only reacts to Error (as you know) it always has a lot of error in sharp moves (twitch or full rate) which causes i-Term windup and i-Term bounceback.
RC smoothing is because RX signal comes in as stair steps. Smoothing smooths that into a line. Without smoothing you will see motor command spikes because of Error humping (due to stair steps) and of course that translates to the motor commands. This is how KISS works actually and YOU ARE RIGHT, if you don't use any thing to advance the quad movement in sharp moves, like FF or D-Term Kick, it flies fine and more "raw" without RC smoothing, but it does limit you from using thing like FF to track the sticks precisely. Since Peter Molly reacts on error and of course you don't have air if you're tracking sticks precisely.
Thanks! Excellent video you linked. I had no idea MATLAB made videos like that.
People are telling me you are the tuning master. Based on the video you linked, I Term Relax does not take into account stick acceleration? So this means it is safe to run with RC smoothing turned off?
RC Smoothing is ironic to me because it adds latency in order to allow features to more precisely track the stick motions, which is a contradiction. But if I can turn on I Term Relax without needing to turn on RC Smoothing, I will definitely try that.
@@TimmyRC , yes. Not acceleration. It just is a highpass filter on stick moves to detect fast stick movements and locks I-Term. It unlocks when you hit the desired rotation rate.
Yes it adds 6 milliseconds of delay but then you can reduce 20ms. So it overcomes the six it adds and plus reduces another 14ms+.
@Ballard Yes, I tried turning on I-term relax while keeping the rest of my settings the same. It reduced bounce-back significantly, but the stick feel felt more unnatural (likely due to the constant changing of the I-term values) so I ended up turning it back off.
Hey Timmy. First off, let me say that I am in the 15.4% 😁
I love your videos for many reasons, mostly though I really like the way that you explain tuning in general. It makes more sense to me when you break it down for me.
You have a similar video to this one, which I continue to watch over and over, where you strip away all of the more "medicinal" features in BF, and that stripping down really helped me to begin tuning my first every kwads.
You have another video, where you tune PID's and explain how it feels when a PID value is too low, or too high.
I look forward to your videos, and although I know that you can only do so many videos regarding tuning kwads, here are some suggestions I'd like to see:
Deeper dive into tuning and filtering, like blackbox level probe into say a vibration issue and how to identify it and resolve it
Tuning smaller craft. I'm building an Armattan Tadpole and mulling it over in my head, the tune must be way different than my 5".
Anyway I thank you, and I look forward to your vids.
Sorry that I wrote a book 🤐
Thanks, glad to hear you are enjoying my videos! I appreciate the video suggestions, however I do not use Blackbox or fly small quads, so as of now I do not have the expertise to make videos on those topics.
can someone clarify about the "quad dipping" when do you actually see this? is it when you're flying and throttling down?
"Dipping" typically occurs during a rapid increase in throttle. The multirotor will pitch and/or roll slightly and then return to its original angle.
Do you happen to live in herbon, IN?
Awesome.... thanks for the follow-up video!
Thanks!
love that raw feel.
Thanks alot for all videos, I love your flying style and its amazing the way that you explain all tecnichal stuff. Thanks
Thanks!
Great video. I am not that good at tuning. But i had a pretty solid tune on my kwad the other day. I didnt change any values and it flew not so solid any more. I had more propwash and some dipping on roll when i let off the throttle. Can the tempurature change that. It flew good in a humid 85 degree day. But not so much when it was 70 and no humidity.
Thanks! Temperature and humidity affect the fluid properties of air, so it is possible that had an effect on your tune. However, I have personally never encountered tuning issues due to changes in temperature and humidity. I would try fresh props and make sure everything is tight and mechanically sound and see if you still get the same issues.
@@TimmyRC Thank you for the response. I did have a pretty nasty crash however and changed an arm. Also one of the motors have a slight grinding sound in my hd footage. Although all the motors seem fine on the bench. I just bought the Zeez 4in1 esc and i am gonna try your tuning guide and start with a fresh tune when i get it installed.
So have you found emu flight yet ?
I'm still waiting for the first official release v1.0
Great video, thank you! I'll try these settings. So basically, just turn everything off and have a good tune. I like it being simple so that suits me!
Thanks! Yes, this will provide a more raw feel.
Will try. Interesting. Trying to tune my DC3.
Can i use this for my whoop? It reacts way to fast.
I'm guessing this is more of a rates issue for you. How fast the quad rotates relative to your stick position is determined by rates, in which case I would recommend turning down your rates:
ruclips.net/video/R8TvR1bY0bM/видео.html
@@TimmyRC thanks dude!! your tutorials are sooo gooood!
@@fpvchaos Thanks!
For channel smoothing, check you logs ;)
For filtering you should check UAVtech channel. Basically just enable notch on gyro and low pass on Dterm is enought
enable notch on gyro and low pass on dterm? What does that mean?
@@rawpicsfpv3516 exactly. Thus is how these BF Geeks say things.
Use emuflight you'll be amazed. No one wants to sit in front of computer screens all days tuning and I found emuflight presets A HUGE ADVANTAGE! BF is geared more towards the geeks who love burning there eyes up looking at Computer screens and screwing around with settings and filters that really aren't necessary for the common quad freestyle or cruise pilots. BF imo is a race quad UI and this makes things difficult for common people who have full time jobs and cant afford time.
Great video as always :) Did you change any of the Dynamic Notch filter settings? Or leave them stock?
Thanks! I don't bother messing with the Dynamic Filter settings.
Emuflight is basically BF with some more agressive tuning by default, to work well on a 5''.
If you understand filtering, PIDs.... you can get the feeling you want with BF.
As you said, BF need to fly on a very large scale of quad, that is why default setting are average
Emuflight works much better on quads smaller then 5“ as well. I haven‘t had a copter with current Emuflight that wasn‘t running better on stock settings than with Betaflight 4.2. Will try it on a 7“ soon, maybe there Betaflight will be the winner.
Sure, you can tune any quad to fly great with Betaflight, but going through the 1001 settings and tips takes up so much time.... i highly suggest trying out Emuflight if you‘re not satisfied with stock settings on Betaflight. Changing back is super easy.
@@eyeflytinkerings Yes, you can switch between firmwares and just use whichever default tune is better for your setup. However, taking the time to tune will give you vastly superior flight performance than any firmware's defaults. In addition, reflashing the flight controller and configuring all of the basic settings is still time-intensive. I personally do not care what the default settings are and I wouldn't switch firmwares just because I disagree with the defaults.
Hi Tim! I have quick question for you. Ever since 4.2 I've been battling bad oscillations while cruising around not really on punch out. Its 5in default setup. Anyhow think it may have been my o ring on bottom of esc spread out and think esc was on bottom aluminum plate in front. Haven't tested yet. But my question really is that I seen when people were updating to 4.2 they were turning bi directional on for the filtering. Well I found out after that my esc is not updated for that yet and when Ijust enabled it the quad started beeping like crazy so i right away turned it back off and beeping stopped. So didn't fly it or anything it was like 20 seconds right there on bench. Would doing that damage my esc or anything? I switched it back pretty quick but hope didn't mess it up lol
Your ESCs should be fine. You can't damage or short anything from using the wrong ESC signal protocol.
Right on!! Well this morning I took the leap into updating my esc.its blheli_s. Got the 16.73 all installed and went fine. Going back to betaflight and switching bi directional dshot on I'm still getting steady load tone soon as I click save reboot. Everything seems working right. But it also makes tone with no battery just hooking up usb. Grrr I'm so close lol. Any idea? Almost like a alarm
@@CrawlersCampRc From my understanding blheli_s does not support bidirectional dshot, but blheli_32 does. However, I believe there are some modified versions of blheli_s that do support bidirectional dshot.
Turning off iterm relax is a bad thing. Your i term windup will keep raising and effecting your fast stick moves. You'll get iterm bounce back.
It is personal preference. I prefer having it off because I prioritize turning off RC smoothing (thus decreasing input delay) without having to worry about the dynamic PID features getting upset by RC signal jitters. Yes, I have some bounce back in my tune, but you will never see it in my freestyle flying.
@@TimmyRC would it make any difference to tune with airmode off??
@@stickboyfpv4742 Turning Airmode off will reduce responsiveness at zero throttle, but will not affect the multirotor otherwise.
How likely is a flyaway if I push the filter sliders further over to the right? Just a bit worried I may destroy my quad or hurt a dog walker at my spot lol.
If you move the sliders incrementally and test fly for issues after each change you shouldn't run into any catastrophic problems.
@@TimmyRC Ok thanks 👍 Will be extra careful and try to reach that razor sharp lag free awesomeness you talked about. 😄
Will betaflight work with a blheli-s 4in1 esc 30a
Yes
Can i apply this to my Tiny Hawk 2? It flies very bad, and as a beginner with no one around to help out, i don't know what to do...
It doesn't hurt to try, but keep in mind that a lot of the features I like to turn off are quite helpful for whoop-style multirotors like the Tiny Hawk that have inherently poor aerodynamic and control authority characteristics.
@Ballard I do not have a TinyHawk or any drones smaller than 5" at the moment, so I can't really provide any small-quad specific tuning tips. However, turning off airmode generally will not benefit control authority at any altitude or throttle setting.
U want project mockingbird tune
So would you say that if you wanted a super smooth cinematic rig you would want to leave all the settings and PID changes you mentioned at default? Good vid, I will def try these settings on my 5 inch and see how it feels. I am really more interested in getting some issues with my 7 inch cinematic rig worked out, any chance you may due a tuning vid for that?👍👍 if I could.
Thanks! Yes, leave the features mostly default, but also turn down or turn off feedforward. What are your tuning issues?
@@TimmyRC I have a small bobble or almost like a fast twitch when just cruising and its not really constant, even when I just let it fly itself, take my fingers off. If there is like 0 wind it is not that noticeable in my HD video footage but if the wind is even 5-10mph it gets a lot more noticeable (using Runcam 5). I am going to do what you suggested and look at the BF tuning guides but if you do a video I will be there. Thank you and I will try the feed forward off, makes sense.
Which escs support bi directional dshot?
Any ESC that can run the latest version of BLHeli_32. You can also reflash BLHeli_S ESCs to a different firmware that also has support for Bidirectional DSHOT.
Your now only smoothing your throttle. Good work.
what rates do you have
I don't like to share my rates since they will not feel the same on other transmitters and setups compared to how they feel on my transmitter and my setup. However, I have a rates tuning tutorial if you want to dial in your rates:
ruclips.net/video/R8TvR1bY0bM/видео.html
Thanks for the education 👍👊
Fantastic!!!! Back to real control not robotic. Thanks!!!!!
thank you very much for this useful sharing, Tim ❤️🍺🍺
Thanks!
Excellent.
Thanks!
great video!! thanks for it
Thanks!
great video thank u
Thanks!
Dude,
You've certainly been as depressed as me by BF4.3, especially the fact that they nearly fulled the F411 memory with unpredictable features🤦♂
As a whoop user I still didn't get the point of throttle boost (positive expo work perfectly...)
Some can help, but they shouldn't be activated from stock.
Thanks for the analysis, community need more content like that 👊
I've already subscribe you and i really love your content!
Thanks!
May i ask if these walues of P, I, and D are recommended? You did not actually mention them other then go check your pid tuning guide. I'm new, and just like to know which pid settings other than the stock ones i could start from. I understand that every drone is unique, but.... (its a 5" drone on 4s) Its kind of funny though, before i watched your "Betaflight 4.2. first impressions" video i tested my first Betaflight FC (with 4.2.3.) on stock pid settings and it felt kind of sluggish... and you said the same in that video, so yeah, that must mean i'm not totally "off" lol.
Those are not my recommended PID values. I do not have recommended PID values because the "best" PID values change depending on the quadcopter. If you don't want to tune PIDs just stick with the defaults, but know that you are leaving extra performance on the table. If you want that extra performance, you have to learn how to tune PIDs:
ruclips.net/video/04Ixyomu9d8/видео.html
@@TimmyRC Thank you for helping.👍
Betaflight really likes to make things complicate rather than simple.
That's a FACT!! Why I went to Emuflight
Let me guess you turned them off as well.
Let me try turning off those switches :) Thanks man stay safe and study hard. 2 more years left?
Thanks! This is my last year unless I fail.
@@TimmyRC Cool man! Hey I disabled all those setting on your video. It flys good, but i have some issue on the roll..LOL.. when I roll the left is like doing slow motion. But on the left roll is normal.. What give? thx
I flew default betaflight pids for a while, just recently started tuning and checking blackbox logs to get better results and I must say HUGE differences night and day I don't think I could not tune quads now moving forward. Great video 👍
Thanks! Tuning is everything!
I really appreciate your work and the insights you post in your channel but I think your PID adjustment guide was a wrong video. In that video you made some attempts that didn't make clear the problems to be adjusted with each single value. I suggest you try to redo that video more clearly by explaining the steps for those who are not experts like you and highlighting more clearly how to correct and what to correct
Thanks! In that video I deliberately explained and demonstrated the individual effects of high and low P, I, and D values separately before actually tuning the quad. The unfortunate truth about PID tuning is that sometimes you have to change multiple values at once to address a single problem. I put a ton of work into that video and explained PID tuning to the best of my ability, but the only way to actually learn PID tuning is by trying it yourself and seeing/feeling what changing the values does.
Whats the point on being on 4.2 if you turn off all of the features 😂
Hence why I update my flight controller like once a year 😂.
@@TimmyRC exactly
👍👀🇭🇷
Thanks!
Just turn it all off