The Moment In My Life When The Logic of God Became Unavoidable
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- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- If you feel stuck in your unhappiness, believe me, there is a pathway out. I should know. For many years, I was the poster child of delusion and hypochondria. But because of-what I consider to be-a literal miracle, I was cured. I'll explain how, in this video.
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“Do not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain…”
The same way my wife, took my name on our wedding day, making the vow that she would be wedded to me forever. Had she continue to live a single woman’s life, she would have taken my name in vain.
I believe that’s the true meaning another commandment.
Amazing example. Was that from yourself?
@ - It occurred to me 10 years ago or so that saying a cuss word probably wasn’t enough to be in the 10 commandments. - We are the bride of Christ…probably should be faithful.
"The battle against evil is fought in the soul"
This is probably why Jesus says if you hate your brother, or if you've lusted after a woman in your heart, that's as much breaking the Law as killing or committing adultery. You need to situate the battle inwardly, complete with stakes if you lose the battle, so that you're properly oriented outwardly.
We’re all standing in the gutters but some of us are looking at the stars. What an awesome quote. The 1st time I’ve heard it. Thank you Drew
I've sometimes heard it "lying in the gutter".
Amen on Ayn Rand, Andrew. Just got a blast of fresh air!
One book suggestion for you to read this year? Klavan’s the Great Good Thing.
These two guys are a good match!
Interesting conversation. My takeaway is, whenever you're confronted with moral choices, big or small, choosing God's will is the correct choice for your own existential progress- and for the 'homeostasis' of the whole of humanity. They're inseparable.
I like a lot of what Jordan has to say, but I don't go to him for theology. In just the first few minutes of this video he's compared evangelicals to radical Islam and cussed with God's name. I'll still enjoy hearing him discuss Solzhenitsyn and Dostoyevsky.
I agree. He's clearly a man on a journey and I'm not sure if he's ever going to get there. But his thought process is interesting to listen to.
How do Evangelicals treat Mormons? Oh yeah, just like Pharisees would. "You Mormons aren't REAL Christians...we get to decide who is and isn't a real Christian". He's spot-on for a lot of cases.
@@danjohnson8556 agree been my experience with some of them, while not all of them for sure.
He is right. Become Catholic. Only true religion
@@danjohnson8556 Because Mormons aren't real christians. You make it sound like all those who claim to be Christians are. And all criticism or rejection of those who claim to be Christians are equal. Jesus says to watch for false prophets (Joseph Smith is CLEARLY one), but you would object to identifying them as such. The Bible identifies false followers repeatedly. In fact, Jesus and his early followers identified the Pharisees as such.
Probably my two faves.
If there’s one book I think everyone should read this year, it’s keezano’s Your Life Your Game. It beautifully shows how connecting with God and building meaningful relationships can lead to spiritual growth, and success in both your personal and professional life. This book truly changed my life…a must-read💟🙏🏼
@@janne-c of course anything you put your faith in will change your life and give you the assurance of meaningfulness. Could it be tough that believing in ‘God’, since there are so many, giving the feeling of mine is true, is the division of man against man and leads to perpetual war? Velikovsky’s Mankind in Amnesia calls for us to be healed of this trauma. Is he evil?
The Second Commandment:
Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord, thy God, in vain.
What does this mean?
Answer: We should fear and love God that we may not curse, swear, use witchcraft, lie, or deceive by His name, but call upon it in every trouble, pray, praise, and give thanks.
- Luther Small Catechism
My takeaway? - Jordan Peterson has become a Bible scholar. Referencing the Bible multiple times, which is mind-blowing and fascinating at the same time. My prayers for them.
Wonderful conversation, I'm still praying for Dr. Peterson, the work has begun but he is still trying to come to Christ through rationalization. It has to be through faith. I like Klavan's viewpoint and filling in with belief. I was going to say counterpoints but it isn't that, more a rounding out of the logic with faith.
Keep in mind, this is how CS Lewis started on his faith journey: It was initially on the intellectual level, ultimately moving to faith via his and Tolkien's mutual love of mythology and Mythos.
@@Hard_Boiled_Entertainment Good point.
@@Hard_Boiled_Entertainment I think if Peterson's journey concludes with coming to his Savior it would be wonderful, as is Mr. Lewis's. That is why he needs continued prayer. There is nothing wrong with faith that is "tested" with logic, it only makes it stronger. As a fan of Dr. Peterson, I was overjoyed to see him start his journey I only pray it comes to a conclusion with a faith in our Savior.
Anyway you get to the truth of God‘s existence is great. This appears to be the intellectual method - reasoning. But since we’re pieces of God ourselves, I used another method to get there - the internal method. I went within - prayer, meditation and appealed to God to reveal himself through my heart. Needless to say, I wasn’t disappointed. I’ve been in the presence of God. I can tell you it’s a real phenomenon. God is 100% real - it’s the highest reality there is. Everything else pales in comparison.
Those who can justify the actions of Hamas on October 7, 2023: pure evil.
One of the most interesting discussions I've ever listened in on. Thank you Mr. Klavan for putting this out for all to see and hear.
The Judeo-Christian belief in a transcendent God as the author of the physical and moral laws that govern our universe is one of the most critical reasons for the success and stability of Western civilization in general, and the USA in particular. The woke, secular, Marxist, DEI, Democrats, who deny this reality, inflict massive amounts of unnecessary pain and suffering on themselves and the rest of humanity.
Inspiring. God bless.
I came to love traffic lights, traffic speed limits, because they prevent accidents and save lives. But I know most people break these laws. If you go over the speed limit you are breaking the law. By the same notion I see that money of itself is neither good nor evil. I love money because it allows me to go shopping without carrying a bunch of pigs around in my car for barter. I love money because it allows me to give myself to others and help them in time of need. Of course many people misuse this love of money. I could say the love of money for the right purposes is the root of all good. As far as Ayn Rand and her Objectivism I was surprised to hear Klavan deploy her work. It was Rand who turned me on to philosophy. And as I grew I let go of childish way and became my own follower. Rand thought Kant evil but I now think he is the greatest philosopher who ever lived. I still honor Rand, though.
Klavan and Peterson seem to me to be whistling in the dark. Though I love them both they exemplify the traumatized humanity in Immanuel Velikovsky’s Mankind In Amnesia. I would love to hear their rebuttal of this book!
The LOVE of money is the root of all evil. That’s the real quote. Money just amplifies your true nature, if you’re good, you can do many good things. If you’re a bad person, you can go on to do many evil things. As you stated, money is neither good nor evil. It just fully reveals your nature.
17:07 I think Moses had only one wife but I might be mistaken! 😊😊
No, you’re right.
Someone once said “surprised by joy”.
I think that was CS Lewis
Lewis was surprised to sense the presence of God in his life as opposed to God simply being a theological exercise.
As it turned out his spouse to be name was Joy
Preach bruh preach
Sometimes, I just don't want to hear Peterson think out loud. But this was a worthwhile exchange.
It will grow on you
❤
@@James-ll3jb I don’t want JP or anyone else to grow on me. I compare having to allow someone to grow on me with my distaste for beer and alcohol. 43 years ago when I was in high school I had my first encounter with these substances. I disliked them, especially beer. My peers said I would learn to like them. However, I realized that making myself learn to like something was stupid because the truth was I didn’t like them. Obviously I would be betraying myself if I forced myself to drink beer or alcohol. I’ve lived by that principle for 47 years and it’s served me well. Hopefully you get the analogy.
@carolcollins6243 Oh I get the analogy, a very poor one. Good taste is acquired never at the expense of good sense. Try cògnac
Within the fist few minutes, he's already compared Evangelicals to radical Islam, to the Pharisees, and spoke of how we should know we're capable of atrocities like the followers of tiny mustache man. - Dude, I was having a nice oatmeal breakfast and I clicked on something with "Joy" in the title bc that's my middle name 😅 I did not ask for this today, lol. 😂 Every time he talks about Christians I wanna grab his shoulders and go "WHO HURT YOU?"
I get that ppl have had bad experiences with the church, but as a kindly minister's daughter, I seriously can't relate 😅 Doctors, however, scare me to death after some bad experiences, so I try to use that to understand. But man, that shrink needs a shrink, lmao
Amen, sister
As for the "capable of atrocities" part, that was not linked exclusively to Evangelicals as you imply, that was a mankind comment. If you're an Evangelical, you should know that mankind is not fundamentally good. JP Is certainly not, by the modern societal standards, particularly and specifically critical of Christians, and I really don't know how you got the impression that he was. He finds the moral and narrative content of Christianity quite profound and positive, which is not something that can be countenanced by an enemy of Christianity. The enemies of Christ hate him for his affinity for the Bible and Christians.
@@digitalnomad9985 I am sure he is just as confused as I am about his mixed signals, tbh, lol. I haven't been able to follow him since half-dating this really manipulative guy who kind of used Peterson's words as a bludgeon to define how I was never good enough, and it made him a very lukewarm and confused Christian (he was trying to integrate the Levitical law in his daily life, despite not having Jewish roots, etc - Mixing religions, stuff like that)
I was determined not to let that experience color my view of Peterson, but perhaps it has. There's one other short on Ben's page where Peterson was a guest and said something even more negative about Evangelicals, but I'd have to dig a bit to find it. But seriously, Peterson is, indisputably, one of the more intelligent minds of our day. His name will be in the history books. I don't understand how he can't just look at some statistics and go "Oh wow, Evangelical Christians aren't comparable to that"
Let's just say our number of... kamikaze style explosions is definitely lower, to speak in a code YT hopefully won't take my comment down for lol
Sorry, since all of the above were directed at "YOU" (me, the Evangelical listener) I actually didn't notice that he'd gone from criticizing my group to criticizing mankind. I do not believe mankind has any of our own natural goodness, but I do not believe someone in a relationship with God is capable. I believe God made me the compassionate person I am, I do not take credit for that. But, my theology is a little different than most Christians, insomuch as I do not believe all sins are equal. I believe without the cross, even the smallest sin that our fallen nature is susceptible to would send us to the bad place. But, even if a droplet of water makes something wet, there's still everything from puddles to oceans 😅 I think both spiritually and psychologically, you can say "This person is an exception for these reasons, and no they are not capable of this."
I dunno I had more to sat but I'm falling back asleep. I just find him to be critical in general. I don't hate him, so please don't you start generalizing as well 😅 It's my pet peeve lol
I actually feel a very deep empathy and/or pity towards him, because I also experience depression.
Mm and I fell asleep for a few minutes so "That's all, folks" lol
@@digitalnomad9985 I had a reply typed and was even going to find the other video I was referring to but RUclips already deleted my comment - This isn't really the place for any sort of debate, because neither side can express themselves.
@@digitalnomad9985 Suffice it to say: Yes I believe in the basics of Christianity. No, I did not say he was an "enemy." I have valid reasons for thinking he has mixed feelings. Hope this helps cause that's all YT will let me say lmao
"This is why I DESPISE Ayn Rand!" Wow, I guess Drew must've hated when DW got the rights to Atlas Shrugged....🤔
Didn't he say once he sometimes goes past Jeremy's office and says "Don't make Atlas Shrugged!" while passing by?
@Konxovar0 Well, Jeremy bought it, and he's too good a businessman to not use something he bought.
Outstanding.
i wish i had the book First-Time Blossoms by Emily Harper when i was pregnant, it gave me the confidence and calm i needed for my journey
This was interesting. Thank you.
Klavan, like so many others, has misquoted this verse in the Bible. Timothy 6:10 "For the love of money is the root of all KINDS OF evil." He kind of left out "kinds of" which substantially changes the meaning what was written. But then he is more of a philosopher than a theologian, as is Peterson. In fact, while I find both men's perspectives on life fascinating, I can't take too much of their perspective on the Bible seriously. One has some serious doctrinal issues and the other does not claim to be a Christian (1 Corinthians 2:14 NASB).
C'mon.
I pray for Peterson to wash the inside of the dish and not just the outside.
You often say "Love of money is the root of all evil." The actual text is: "...love of money is a root of all kinds of evil...." It comes from I Timothy 6:10 if you'd like to read it in context.
Depends on which version of the bible you are quoting. "...all kinds of evil" comes from NIV. KJV says "...root of all evil."
I think you both would enjoy “The Myth of Religious Neutrality” by Roy A Clouser 😊
True good or evil is defined not by what we do, but by what stands between us and what we do. If the thing that prevents you from committing adultery is respect for God and your spouse (or someone else's spouse), then you are virtuous. If it is not, then you are an adulterer, regardless of whether you actually commit adultery.
You wouldn't call someone a killer without a corpse. Stupid logic.
@@The_Novu You could not convict someone of murder without a corpse...but if they have the desire to commit murder and the only stopping them is fear of the consequences to themselves, then wouldn't you say that person was evil?
Just like if some guy was staring sexually at your wife, you would confront him about it even if he did not actually have sex with her.
Is this Jordan Peterson interviewing Andrew Klavan? If so, Dr. Peterson's talking too much
Yes. I really would have loved to have heard Andrew’s uninterrupted thoughts on the issue of his conversion.
Where is the full episode?
I’m eager to see how you guys react to the MJ12 whistleblower situation
I can’t listen to Jordan Peterson because of his continued use of the term GodD*mn. I have a terrible habit of using curse words which I try hard to conquer. But the GD word is beyond the pale to me. If a super intelligent man (as JP professes to be) then I’m sure he could find a better way of expressing himself.
Couldn’t tell from the thumbnail who was in the picture in the middle, Peterson or Klavan
That’s Klavan. I have that photo on the back cover of his first novel, “Face of the Earth.”
Taking the Lord's name in vain is simply imputing to God values that you claim to be virtuous, and you do this by saying to others that God will punish them, or that what they do is not good in the eyes of God. IOW, claiming to speak for God. 'God will strike you down for this!' is an example because you claim to have the moral high ground and that God sides with you. This is vainglory.
Which is why you shouldn't do it unless you're actually quoting Scripture, or something well-grounded in Scripture.
You're speaking from Scripture now, right? Because it sounds like you're speaking for God here.
Be careful of omitting the "And"
Accusing pharisees (religious elite) of hypocrisy.....AND..."Before Abraham was, I AM"
He declared himself GOD/YAHWEH in the flesh.
...
Leaving out this fact reduces his later resurrection to a detail not the the conquering point!
Seek your salvation:
John 1:1-14
1 Corinthians 15:1-4
John 3:3
John 3:16
Romans 10:8,9
Well thank you for telling us what it really means. We're not as smart as you.😂
There's so much information here. It's hard to even digest. discernment of. good and evil discernment of God. Literally an Modern day essay on God..
Shut up, Jordan. I want to hear Andrew.😎
Original sin, anyone?
Woah....
"Grounded being speaks".....
Ummmmm
Hello....
That is reversing the created order.
The CREATOR...is necessarily above that order. reducing him to a being chops the knees of the absolute authority Jesus later claimed.
"I am the Aplha and Omega"
BE CAREFUL NOT TO NUANCE INTO MAKING GOD AN INTELLECTUAL EXERCISE!!!
I read Crime and Punishment up to the beginning of the chapter where he commits the murders. I simply could not get through it. Dostoyevsky is a magnificent writer, and it was just too real for me. I have sworn to myself that I would eventually finish that book.
You need to, it is one of the most important pieces of literature we have, a powerful story of what is redemption and salvation, Brothers Karamazov goes into a deeper dive in this concept
the tips in the book First-Time Blossoms by Emily Harper are exactly what first-time moms need, itebook helped me feel so much more prepared.
not many talk about the real struggles of pregnancy, but the book First-Time Blossoms by Emily Harper does, it helped me manage the journey with more peace
if more first-time moms read the book First-Time Blossoms by Emily Harper, pregnancy would feel a lot less overwhelming
reading the book First-Time Blossoms by Emily Harper completely changed how i approached my pregnancy. this ebook gave me the clarity i was looking for.
I first thought this was about the narcissist Jimmy Carter. 😂😂😂
You have zero moral authority to criticize Ayn Rand as long you support even the idea of government thru force and taxation.
Sorry, but that's just the nature of government. Government is a necessary evil, as our wise founders recognized. And, yes, Ayn Rand was not a great writer.
Recall in my 20s I thought Ayn Rand was so wrong and almost evil in her position. However, once I grew up and realized that government NEVER truly has it's citizens interests at heart. It's so obvious that I almost don't begrudge the Politicians and bureaucrats their corruption. They literally have a huge pot of cash where they can legally just dip in and pull out whatever they want so long as a single dip into the honey pot is not so obscenely large or blatant that it can't be ignored. The majority of us would probably do the same thing.
Feel ashamed about my youth.
What other kind of government is there aside from force and taxation? Suggestions and donations?
@@victor_2216 If everyone claims it's such a good idea, existing on voluntary donations shouldn't be a problem now should it? But if that won't work, is that a reason to accept a system based on pure immorality?
@@AllAhabNoMoby What is your criticism directed at exactly? Of course it would be a problem; what do you do when your neighbor refuses to pay for policing? What about roads? What about the military? This problem is the reason why taxes are necessary-unless you'd rather give some identification number to the police before they answer your 911 call.
Moses only had one wife