Wing Chun Coach vs Boxing Coach - The Flaws Of Wing Chun Kungfu Demonstrated
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- Опубликовано: 13 май 2024
- We have a wing chun coach taking on a boxing coach. We see one of the most interesting displays of how boxing and wing chun compare in the striking department. Watch as we see some major flaws in this wing chun coach's approach to the striking range. Not only is Wing Chun coach too square, but he also drops his hands too much because he's always thinking of "trapping range" parries and grabs. On top of that boxer's punches are just too quick. Beyond this, Anson is just so much taller than our Wing Chun coach. However, this shouldn't matter because the wing chun mythos (or at least the line that comes from Yan Yong Chun) claims it's an art designed for smaller people.
Watch the original for more context, especially if you speak Chinese:
• 西洋拳王(余鐵良) VS 詠春師傅(mic0...
The boxing coach Anson Yu:
/ @ansonthethunderblast
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#fight #commentary #breakdowns #kungfu #wingchun #boxing #JKD #jeetkunedo #mma #ansonyu
Timecodes:
0:00 Match with commentary
2:12 Final moment slow motion replay
2:34 Show of respect at the end
2:49 Why I look tired
3:01 Anson Yu the boxing coach
3:15 Can't find wing chun coach
3:31 Finally found this video
3:53 Fun update
4:20 Fun questions for viewers
4:49 Final thoughts 
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Boxing Coach Anson's channel is in the video description and cards. If anyone has any information on this Wing Chun coach, please let me know! Here is Anson's Chinese name: 余鐵良 (余铁良). I'll search on social media to see if I can get in touch with him!
square is actually fine for entering with wing chun, and he doesn't need to have his hand up to protect himself. He actually needs to learn to close, off balance and blitz, instead he is pot-shotting which is what gives rise to the need for boxing basics. Wing chun should force hooks that it prevents with arm control. Real wing chun looks like a dirty boxing and clinch fighting. The reason these wing chun guys don't develop this is its mostly a lost art and also they dont train like fighters
many martial artists don't know how to box and that's sad. If you want to fight you have to learn boxing, I trained traditional martial arts for years but I only learned to fight when start train boxing.
Same here. I started in Hung Gar but didn't know how to fight until I started Boxing several years later.
The strange thing is a lot of people who train martial arts, not all, do not consider boxing and wrestling martial arts. This is crazy, and like you said, leads to a deficit in skills in critical areas. I love training with both and sharing notes and ideas.
那是你們訓練的問題不是武術的問題吧⋯⋯
@@ricardowashington4447 yeah, i've heard "Boxing is a sport, not a martial art" so many times...
Learning Muay Thai or Boxing or both, not only make one a better martial artist obviously, but will make it possible to be effective with frowned upon arts like Wing Chun.
Boxing is no joke
Not as big a joke as Ping Pung martial arts!
Why would you say such a Things... You saw the clip in front of your eyes ❤
This fight took place in 2010 and caused quite a stir back then. The boxer, Yu Tieliang, is a boxing champ and has represented HK in the Olympics. If memory serves, the WC guy claimed his scientific approach to WC was superior to boxing, and that he'd show the boxer "how to fight the right way." The boxer accepted his challenge, and the rest........is history.
Yes, Jerry, your knowledge of Chineese and the ability to find rare stuff other martial arts youtubers can't are exactly the reason we follow your channel
Where are the Wing Chun fighter's kicks? Against a taller opponent, you have to use kicks to bridge the distance!!!
Might be an agreed ruleset idk
I think kicks are frowned upon in a sparring match
Probably forgot about it lmaooo
Imo there are no rules in fights especially if you are limiting your opponent against your weakness. That just says please don't kick me, I can't defend that.
Yea sorry no boxer is going to win against a person with good kicks. Wing chun is not only hands this is stupid it proves nothing. Boxing ain't no joke yep only when aren't
allowed A boxer of skill vs a martial artist with good kicks..sorry boxer is at a disadvantage period.
I use Wing Chun in sparring all the time. But just like any other sparring, it requires practice, testing stuff, and lots of trial and error. But the results are so worth it.
Lots of martial artists just have no respect for people who spar. I think it's insane, and childish. People like them make traditional martial arts look like a joke, even though in reality there's lots of good qualities in every art.
That's one reason why Bruce ditched most of wing chun we he arrived in the states. He kept the trapping and rapid punching but he saw the flaws long ago.
Wing chun's ideal range is close range. The problem is that a majority of Wing Chun barely teach footwork. Even if footwork is taught, it's terrible footwork (this includes William cheungs footwork). They'll see an opportunity, but can't get to it fast enough. Bruce Lee implemented fencing and boxing footwork in JKD. You need to bridge the gap and change angles as fast as possible if your opponent is super skilled and has lots of room to move.
And extreme lack of head movement. If you look at Mark Phillips and his wing chun, he was always getting his head off centerline.
This particular WC fighter is at least making efforts to side step. Nothing that he builds on, but it makes him slightly more effective
TBF this guy's footwork looked fine , he was just terrible at getting inside. Every time he would get close it seemed like he was trying to clinch. He remained standing straight up and square for every attempt and didn't manage to land punches.
He had no strategy of overcoming the boxers offense and landing his own.
Strategy could have involved conventional boxing slipping and low jabs. Bending leg, bobbing and weaving or moving to the outside of the boxers lead arm and jabbing from an angle that the boxer could not hit him back.
@@FightCommentarytrue that
@@mengmao5033yeah, this practitioner's footwork wasn't that bad, really. But i don't think he has practiced his moves all that well on a resisting opponent. He actually succeeded in entering a few times but made nothing of it other than pushing his opponent, which is usually bad for Wing Chun (And also getting punched in the face haha) because he is supposed to fight in the pocket, why would he shove his opponent oit of distance, then? So yeah, this practitioner just has to work on that and maybe we will see some good Wing Chun
I mean , he tried. But at least he was respectful towards his opponent and got the balls to pressure test his art👊 I think a capoeira or mantis style match would be dope for next time !
Capoeira X Mantis Kung Fu happened in Ganryujima.
@@aluisiofsjr Neat!
Respect to WC to test his skills
This man has no fighting skills. And it was Wing Chun trainer, poor his students, deceiving them every day..
@@santory5788 at least he decided to test his skills, few people are brave enough to sparring.
@@santory5788 about he taught WC to others well it is a pity.
This fight was a YT classic! I remember watching it maybe even earlier than 2010. It is awesome to watch this classic video again! Another one really old classical video is the owner of Art Of War championship (when he was BJJ blue belt) fight against Xu Xiadong (when he was only a Sanda fighter). I remember watching those fights so MANY years ago!
The yt channel 'Weaponism' has done a few videos on MMA vs Kendo that I's love to hear your take on. They've actually got a couple bare hands vs weapons videos, but the mma ones they did were the most interesting imo
I want to take some fencing classes and then I'll do more commentary on weapon martial arts. Stay tuned!
I'll just tell you right now, unarmed versus weapon is a 99% loss for the unarmed guy if the weapon guy has a real weapon and any clue how to use it. Especially, you said Kendo? Especially a weapon like a razor sharp sword that's pretty quick and gives you more than two feet of extra reach. You're not getting in on that. You're getting cut and losing blood fast.
You have a good channel. Interesting vids
Hey jerry, where do you actually live? I hear you mention a lot of things that are clues but i cant figure out where youre at.
Id love to see a legit xing yi guy, someone who pressure tests it in one of you're videos. It would be legit awesome.
Many traditional martial arts do not work in fights with "conditional laws" as their forms involve combinations of hands and feet blows. Restrictions to the use of hands and kicks combo is a huge disadvantage to the form itself just like a triple jumper taking part in a 100m dash.
i think most people who came across this fight for the first time was shortly after watching i.p. Man. i swear i remember red shirt dude like it was yesterday
So interesting. I wonder why this match isn't on Anson Yu's channel. I'll do a search on Chinese social media to see if I can find more cross discipline matches from him.
i was only able to use any wing chun techniques after years of sparing and experimenting with karate practitioners and then with kickboxers and thai boxers. Reading bruce lee's books really helped with training and application
I will grant the fact that the boxer is SIGNIFICANTLY larger. Also, he did actually enter multiple times significantly (dont know why you said he didn't), he was just clueless when he got there.
Pau!! How have you been? So fun to see you in the comments again. It's so weird how the RUclips algorithm will cycle videos to old viewers randomly. There's another viewer named Elenchus who would comment on a lot of videos, but then he'll disappear for years because RUclips stopped serving him videos. And then he'll reappear again for a year and then disappear. Man, the only thing more random than trapping range is the RUclips recommendation engine. When did you start seeing my videos in your feed again?
WC guy should have kept circling into the hook and finding ways to trap or jam it, then enter. I mean, he would likely have gotten hit 90% of those times, but at least execute the gameplan your art preaches. He didn't create opportunities to trap that were timed/dictated by himself, ceding initiative to the boxer. When he did initiate, it was low success chain punching or even jumping and punching.
How to have a boxing match with a boxer, when you don't know how to box. Usually, does not end well.
spot on exactly
I spared a wing Chung guru, he had good flow landed a good amount but as soon as pegged him with a little thai kick to his his leg he said no more kicks lol...
I'm aslo a boxer but I'll tell you what, like in karate as well there are a handful of decent wing Chung moves
However Dutch kickboxing and Muay Thai reign surpreme
Your neighbor is cooking in the bedroom. Love at first punch!
this what happened with those fanatic martial art guy who think martial art style is religion.... the WC guy should use his kick to keep distance and try to invite attack from the boxer....when the boxer launch his attack then WC guy try to trap boxer attack...may be WC guy get some luck....
As with any discipline, it depends on the Master that implements it, the evolution of Win Chun is Jeet Kune Do, the Art of the Intercepting Fist...
-Bruce Lee
Not quite Ip Man vs Twister.
🙃
Was Twister in the fourth one or the second one?
@@FightCommentary second
I see.
I don't understand any technique that involves pressing in with both arms extended with no apparent intention to grapple or clinch. Like a weird Frankenstein stiff arm punch shove think. I don't see it from every wing chin practitioner, but I see it more often from wing chun. Can someone explain?
It's called "Bridging" 寻桥. But usually if you look at Qi La La, he doesn't enter blindly. He uses strikes to set up a bridging attempt.
Its just poor skill. Unfortunately many WC practitioner need to be sparring like this with others, that intent to hit them, and that just isn't the case.
Wing chun isn't an 'empty hand sparring' art.
Its punches lack power and are just a way to blitz or trap into close range - in order to deliver the only K.O.-worthy payload it's got - which is elbow to the jaw or sternum. That's the only worthwhile objective, really. But I doubt that red dude would agree to taking elbows, would he?
That said, Tyson's tight hooks often turned into elbows in the ring 😏. It's kinda wing chun-ish in that respect.
Love you man
Oh boy this is a classic
And we finally found the original ;)
Everybody have fun tonight,
Everybody wing chun tonight
Ip Man? More like: Sleep, Man! 😂
Did we finally get an honest "Wing Chun vs Boxing" video?
If you read Bruce Lees book he says boxing is superior and should b mastered first. Then incorporate the other styles. His reasoning was that a punch is the fastest strike and that boxing requires faster reflexes
This footage demonstrates clearly, that if youre going to be a solid foot shorter than your opponent, and have easily 16 inches less reach than him, you hetter have good footwork to Enter, and good Bridge Hands to get to the inside. This is less an example of "Boxing > WC" and more an example of "Reach > Short Arms"
Also Bruce lee is one of the first marchal artists to mix styles specially Filipino kalay marchal art and talk about that style it's not for self defense it's for taking someone out just to let you know if you want sparing with expert or try to challenge someone wearing protection all the time if you don't you will happen
What's weong with wing chun?
And for context, I've had the privilege to train under several smaller WC masters who would have no trouble smashing me into the ground despite me being almost a foot taller than them
I would like to see you pull a capoeira move on her at least once, and that would also be cool if you would use some of the kung fu you did
There is massive size difference.
As a student of Chow Gar, I do not like to defend Wing Tsun practicioners, but what i see here is a poor example of the style. Where is his almost mandatory cover hand? Where is the Wing Tsun "接受前进的，跟随后退的，如果失去联系，就向前进攻" basic strategy? This fighter has accepted ego and panic, and has abandoned even the few useful moves the style has to offer. A more skilled proponent would have been more useful as an example. I have fought better than he, and they were not instructor level.
Wing Chun must have footwork, yet, where is the WC guy's footwork? Not saying it would have been a deciding factor, but the lack of it cost him a lot. Peek-a-boo would do him a lot better.
Yep. That is a great observation. The awkwardness in his entries definitely has a lot to do with lack of proper footwork.
Wing Chun or even Kung Fu in general aims at incapacitating the opponent. Hitting groin, eyes, throat, joints and all sorts of finger techniques are necessary and important.
that still would not have helped him. You do see the boxer is holding back?
Correction on my first comment what i meant to say was that boxing wouldn't of worked on Sifu Norbert Maday or any other Wing Tsun Practitioner.
Never fight a boxer especially with boxing rules, it is a lose, lose endeavor. Let's flip the tables, Ie let's have the boxer compete against a judo player with judo rules. I wonder how that would turn our
Parts if wing chun that work for self defense are just like if someone grabs you and you know wrist control you can have a better chance at pushing them away and running, really i think thats what most women who used it would have used it for maybe hit someone in the throat or face that grabbed their arm or wrist or by the shoulders.
I’m pretty sure he’s not doing any wing chun in this video. Wing chun doesn’t normally spar in boxing gloves to boxing rules. Maybe if they use broken finger gloves where fingers are out.
1:49 Oh no, look at the WC guy's feet position.
A good boxer against a genuine wing chun guy or girl is all about who controls the range!!! This has been said by many top jeet kune do teachers.😬
Not defending, just saying, but Wing Chun is an in-close art and that boxer looked to have like a 8" reach advantage. Another boxer with such a reach disadvantage would also do poorly. If anything, mma has proved that 1 style is not enough.
If the 2 guys same size maybe the result isn't same. The fight not start yet i already guess who is the winner.
Whin Chun guy will get his moment sooner or later and land 300 punches. ;) So much power!
Their sizes are not comparable. Choose similar sizes to evaluate.
As a practitioner of Wing Chun I hardly see any Wing Chun techniques in the supposed "instructor".
Isnt wingchun for defese?
Great 🌹
It just looks like the wing chung guy is just physically overmatched in the first place.
That's why Bruce Lee made his own style of a combination of Wing Chung, boxing, and submission Jeet Kune Do
It all depends on the person. I mean he's not even fighting like a wing chun fighter
WC punches lack power. Only the elbows are worth fearing.
@@Erime WC doesn't lack power. I've seen WC fighters break ribs. Every fighter is different
Why is it always some wing Chun guy that's a couple weight classes below or fighting a giant In any of the videos I ever see by anyone regarding Wing Chun? This reminds me of the scene in the Bruce Lee movie when he fought Kareem.
Muay Thai, kickboxing, or boxing.
Any grappling discipline
And your ready for anything
Forget about these impractical arts for self defence
Bruce lee made jkd seems like a better version of wing chung
It was supposed to be lol
That's partly why Bruce created jkd
Wing chun should be fought without glove and without law this is the real way to use techniques in wing chun if you want to defeat boxing and muay thai experts because every wing chun hand punch without glove is hard besides the locking technique of the opponent is very deadly.
The problem is not the discipline is the fighter
Wing Chun was created by a woman originally but after man had got there hands on it the techniques changed it eventually ended up with YipMan and he taught severel students like Bruce Lee, and William Cheung which went on to become the Grand Master of Wing Chun but YipMan Had one last closed door disciple student and that was Leung Ting who was able to Master the complete system and bring it back to its original form and technique like when the woman created it and called it Wing Tsun to separate it from the other system that was imperfect.
First of all Wing Chun isn't offensive so for him to keep on rushing him and attacking that doesn't make no sense because Wing Chung also does keep the hands down but Wing Chun is more defensive with counter punch counterattack then days them then aggressively punch in
Boxing is the best way to go. All fighting styles are unique. But over all I choose boxing. Cuz trying to kick takes too much time. Hands r faster than feet.
Problem is only 1 out of 4 supposed Wing chun schools are actually doing Wing Chun. Where's the explosive forward movement. Watch Emin Boztepe to get the idea. This is not a bad representation of Wing Chun. Because this isn't Wing Chun
are you okay now Jerry?
So you have an Olympic boxer going against a Wing Chun guy with how much training and experience exactly? All these style vs style videos need context.
Boxing is a Martial Art😎
That's y jkd for made. Go Bruce!!! Wing Chun Its a great foundation.
In Jack Dempsey's book Championship Fighting he referred to boxing as a "martial art".
One of the fundamental defensive flaws of wing chun from a modern fighting perspective is that it leaves the head -- the target you want to instinctively protect the most -- left open, exposed, and vulnerable.
In muay Thai, there is a similar guard called the long guard. It is held higher than the wing chun man sao/wu sao bridging guard, in order to protect the head but even then a muay Thai proponent will know not to exclusively use a long guard because sticking the arm way out will leave the side of the head open to a kick or hook. .The HK style of wing chun is insufferably static having only one type of guard and assuming it will work in any situation, against any fighting style which just is not the case.
The other fundamental flaw is wing chun's over investment in trapping. As the content creator at the Inside Fighting brilliantly noted, trapping is a highly transient range in fighting where the opportunity to employ trapping might exist for a second or two so why would a fighting style invest 90% of it's tactical strategy in a fight range that makes up for 10% or less of a total fight?
The reason that trapping is highly effective in wing chun chi sao is because the practitioners are compliant since part of the etiquette in chi sao is maintaining forearm contact and working and staying in trapping range. That's not realistic in dynamic fighting where you can't dictate maintaining trapping range unless you're a hockey player fighting on skates because you have limited mobility and the ref will break up the fight as soon as someone goes to the ground.
Finally trapping is not as easy once you remove the static environment of chi sao. I challenge any pure wing chun fighter to go to a grappling class (most BJJ clubs offer one free class) and ask someone to start rolling from standing where grip fighting (which is trapping range) comes into play. A wing chun proponent will quickly realize how difficult trapping is against a noncompliant opponent.
that's all not real wing chun, which is fair because how many people know wing chun for real anymore? It's literally a lost art where people try to fight like the forms and drills which is pointless.
Wing chun is much more like Dempsey's style ironically, but actually the head being open is not really a problem because you are at kicking range, and then when get inside you control the guys arms or torso, it's a clinching art. Hitting the open face of a WC guy should feel like trying to hit a judoka who already clinched tight with you and is loading you for a throw. The trapping is key, and the reason for investing in it can be grasped when you see that chasing arms and trying to trap is totally wrong and useless. The trapping just comes up, it gets generated by getting a light touch in dirty boxing when the only goal is to land more punches from there. If both of us are dirty boxing and i train this position more than you, and i pummel better and bicep/tricep control better, and just train my striking from there based on the goal of hitting you fast while tying you up, off balancing you, at the expense of all else ( getting the takedown, stalling, landing knees or breaking the clinch ) - it will grow this skill set. Once you face someone who can fight with wing chun you can see 99% of these teachers and experts are jokes and the proof is they actually try to trap or try to use the footwork forms as how to move in a real fight which it's not for. Still, it will never be good for combat sports because it relies on so much offense and not a back and forth exchange. It's better for self defense
Tough pill to swallow. The boxer danced around the WC teacher. Lack of focus on WC teacher. Maybe moving in and out, then move to the left or right, to see what's coming from boxer. Definitely, softening up the mid section with some kicks, that might help, seeing the boxer was taller. Need to attack with kicks. Don't fight his fight, fight yours. Need footwork, be more agile "or" you get picked off. Kudos to boxing 🥊! Bruce Lee started as a boxer, won a few fights. Bruce Lee could've used his cha cha dancing in this case. But overall, an experienced boxer, look out!
i can never underestimate wingchun but the truth is.. it only works in the movies. if wingchun can produce a champion in one fc and ufc, then i am convince.
Wing Chun is such a confusing martial art to me. On the one hand, especially compared to other kung fu styles, it seems so much more practical and straightforward. No flowery movements. No weird animal style type stuff. Just punches and kicks. Stuff that we know works.
Yet on the other hand it's like they took those punches and kicks and made them the least effective as possible. I like to compare to boxing. (And yes, I know it was not developed from boxing.) But it's like they took boxing and deliberately made it worse.
Instead of the boxing stance which is natural and mobile and flexible, they said, hey let's take our feet make them parallel (which is less good for balance and mobility) and then let's turn our feet and knees awkwardly inward which is uncomfortable and unnatural. and then let's take the punches of boxing and first of all let's get rid of hooks and uppercuts. And then, let's take what's left and instead of punching from the whole body the way boxing does let's just make them arm punches. And then there's trapping. as I've said before, there's really no such thing as trapping range. Trapping range is grappling range.
The whole thing is a dichotomy of useless practicality. Lol.
On top of that they look out any semblance of a good guard too
wing chun guys elbows are too flared out. meanwhile boxing guy has his hand at his hips!- what about wing chun guy is two foot shorter than boxing guy.
Now a days boxer is on another level if u watched 3 rounds amatuer boxing like asian games , pan American games or Olympic, those guys are real boxer but these chinese fighter claimed to be an boxer is like they just learned it yesterday
Wing Chun movement is not that rushing.. his legs are not stuck to wing chun movement as well😅
❤❤❤
Kung fu works when you find a teacher who is qualified to teach it. I’ve seen it I’m a southern Chinese kung fu martial artist pak Mei
I'm glad the height difference is minimal 😅
Try fight wing chun vs MMA
Wing Chug is not designed for hooks and then your dealing with an opponent with a longer reach hiw this guy be a coach when doesnt pay attention to the basic fundamentals
Believe me, I am over 40 and am training since I am 6. Not ONE of those youtube wing chun sparring guys is a reference for this martial art. Normally you learn in your first lessons the sense of the "protecting" hand and the "searching" hand. This is no wing chun here. Trust me mate
I wouldn't be celebrating if I was the boxer. You are fighting an older, weaker, smaller man.
this is a seasoned fighter versus an instructor... the fitness and skill levels are completely different
I'm the first one. For the first time in forever!!!
Can you find pak Mei Kung fu
Will take a look
Yeah, okay, now try that out on a Wing Tsun Practitioner.
What would Bruce Lee think?
The bigger guy beats the smaller, what else is new?
If I were the smaller guy, I'd be looking to keep kicking the boxers knees. Boxing is boxing, kicking is kicking and I'm certain the boxer doesn't know how to kick. Advantage wing Chun. Straight boxing, sure the boxer I going to win especially with reach advantage.
The problem is these Wing Chung guys took a class and were gullible to believe they are un beatable. The difference is Bruce Lee understood there were limitations to Wing Chung. He adapted learning wrestling, boxing, Judo. Hmmm today's MMA fighters.
Sorry to hear about the next door neighbors, I think the Wing Chun guy should have been going for body shots and moving his body while in the lower position
If the dude on right is a WC instructor, then I'm Japanese
Hilarious size difference.
You don't trap the hands in wing chun, dude. You trap the elbows, which traps the whole arm.
I could see boxing be more effective but the weight class difference is absurd. No level of martial arts is going to change your biology. Would love to see this in a fair fight.
Dude is much taller, stupid comparison 😂
Hand trapping from a distance, bad idea...,
Someone will make it work ;) Think about how far Khabib shoots in for a take down. We're going to get a wing chun version of Khabib one day. Just will take a lot more pressure testing and humbling of ego, but I want to see more examples of wing chun implemented well.