Why These Champions Always Keep Getting Nerfed | League of Legends
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
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Champions are buffed and nerfed on a constant basis every year. Yet for some strange reason there exists a number of them who, despite being considered weak by all measurable standards, are never balanced accordingly. Sometimes they actually get nerfed instead! Today we're gonna find out what the deal is with champions who are "always weak".
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#LoL #Weak #Champions
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Dangggg,120$, that's a lot
The timing on this is perfect, jayce and azir are getting buffed for worlds, it was just announced lol
As an actual Azir and jayce main, I've come to embrace the nerfs and accept them as a part of the undisputable cycle of life, I've also found serenity amongst ryze mains. Our fellow nerf enjoyers
*ITS ALL LIES*
Hey I'm a Gwen main, may I vibe with y'all?
@@a.arrondel6379 you just got here. We don't know if you belong yet
Uh..... i get that the nerfs are rough, but i don't think you should associate with ryze mains.....
I think they're a bit.... unhinged at the moment. Next thing you know you'll be realm warped into fountain.
Zeri - riZe
People just can't handle the glory of the Shuriman Empire, and it's blazing status. Azir deserves something better than this. And yet his dead beat relative Sivir keeps ransacking his home.
Oh mighty, Azir... Emperor, the Imperishable, Shurimahara, The Great King of Shurima, King of Kings, Opener of the Way, Wielder of the Staff of Office, Punisher of Nomads, The Great Unifier, Commander of the Ascended Legion, Sacred of Appearance, Bringer of Light, Father of Hawks, Builder of Cities, Protector of the Two Worlds, Keeper of the Hours, Beloved of Mother Desert, High Steward of the Horizon, Sailor of the Targon, Sentinel of the Two Realms, The Undisputed, Begetter of the Begat, Scourge of the Faithless, Carrion-feeder, First of the Charnel Valley, Rider of the Sacred Chariot, Vanquisher of Yordles, Champion of the Death Arena, Mighty Lion of the Infinite Desert, Emperor of the Shifting Sands, He Who Holds The Sceptre, Great Hawk Of The Heavens, Arch-Sultan of Nashramae, Waker of the Hierotitan, Monarch of the Sky, Majestic Emperor of the Shifting Sands, Champion of the Ascended, Breaker of the Noxus Clans, Builder of the Sun Disc, Terror of the Void, Master of the Never-Ending Horizon, Master of the Necropolises, Taker of Souls, Tyrant to the Foolish, Bearer of Staff of Office, Scion of Kindred, Scion of Aurelion Sol, The Great, Chaser of Nightmares, Keeper of the Royal Herat, Founder of Disciples Of The Armordillo, Banisher of Xerath, High Lord Admiral of the Sunfleets, Guardian of the Charnal Pass, Tamer of Renekton, Unliving Jackal Lord, Ancestor of Royals, Charioteer of the Ascended, He Who Does Not Serve, Slayer off Reddittras, Scarab Purger, Favoured of Celestials, Player of the Great Game, Liberator of Life, Lord Sand, Wrangler of Brakern, Emperor of the Dunes, Eternal Sovereign of Nerimazeth's Legions, Seneschal of the Great Sandy Desert, Curserer of the Living, Regent of Targon Mountain, Warden of the Eternal Necropolis, Herald of all Heralds, Caller of the Bitter Wind, God-Warrior, Master of Icatia, Guardian of the Dead, Great Keeper of the Obelisks, Deacon of the Ash River, Belated of Wakers, General of the Mighty Frame, Summoner of Sandstorms, Master of Sand Warriors, Prince of Dust, Tyrant of the Great Sai, Purger of Pilltower Thiefs, Killer of the False God's Champions, Tyrant of the Gold Dunes, Golden Feather Lord, Avenger of the Dead, Carrion Master, Eternal Warden of Shurimian Lands, Breaker of Xerath's Bonds... and many, many more...
@@indrickboreale7381 you speak with gracious words, Brother. +1500 adoration stacks for you.
@@indrickboreale7381 ah yes a fellow settra enjoyer
@@GrillMasterOmegon A tennis match between them would be terrible. Neither serves
Tbf, sivir was never good.
As my friend used to tell me when I started playing : "You make broken champs look like they need buffs"
xd
Me when playing Lillia.
I don't do any damage, I can't take a feather without dying. So I look up guides and videos and every comment is a main saying how good she is.
Meanwhile I can't fight anyone as the enemy team is 4 duel solo focus champions who one shot combo anyone they can dash to.
@@magnusm4 play her top with conq, gg easy lp
@@magnusm4 e thé carry and press r while keeping q stacks
@@magnusm4 be patient, she’s good at long drawn out fights, front to back.
Similar to Xayah in a way (one of my mains)😊
I love how we as a society always agreed that Azir should be unplayable at all points of time and so it is since forever ago
I haven’t clicked on the play button because I don’t want to be depressed that Azir (my main) will be in the video…
@@alyas1998 Honestly it still works, the only thing that hate from this cycle is that, you can still play and climb far with those champions, but you ended up being an OTP no matter what.
The day Azir gets a buff is the end of midlane
@@bruhkan457 intrusive thoughts: make Azir op again in solo Q
On the bright side: literally no one bans asol or azir, so your OTP is always available
"Emphasized by the fact that whoever counters him isnt worth picking"
Shows Poppy, the pick or ban champion atm
funny, yeah, same how he didnt mention any champs that are always weak and never get picked in pro, shaco is literally usinf the retardness of enemy againt them, skarner is not even existing, twitch is an ap mage now... and so one, for these champs gimicky builds and player skill is required to make up for low stats.
@@nsreturn1365 twitch is actually seeing quite a bit of play in the LEC and skarner also saw quite a bit of games some time ago. As for Shaco, he deserved to be unplayable
@@alex2005z yeah twitch is very op in good players hands he can literally 1v5 and skarner needs a buff i was 8/0 on him once and then fell off so hard lategame cause i had 0 damage
Poppy is pick/ban jg, but he was showing lane counters.
@@aaronparry2636 it still makes his life well in early teamfights
Theres champions that are basically balanced around pro (ryze, azir, zeri, aphelios) and then there's champions balanced around the elos (yi, yone, tristana, kayn) and there's some that are both (Wukong)
on the right we have the think champs, and on the left we have the braindead ones!
Zeri use to be quite balance as a Fast but weak damage Ad carry that perfect fine at 12.10. And then add damage to her and take all other stuff form her make her a mobile Lux now...
As a Syndra OTP i can say that it feels so stupid to see that every champ beats you if you make 1 mistake and they can get away with everything. Its really sad. And if you play well enough they will say what a busted champs pls nerf Syndra
Same! You have to be 4 times better to do the same stuff that any other champ can do!
This.
Well, if it's any solace, Syndra is getting a mid scope update and if the recent ones are any indication, you get a very broken version of Syndra for like two patches lol
@@antonypistachio5476 i just hope they dont fordert her to be an only poke champ
agreed ! i’m not the best at the game by any means but i have a good time playing and i’ve maimed syndra since 2014, but with my skill level being pretty avg. i make mistakes and w/ Syndra it’s almost like you make one mistake and then all of a sudden you’re going 0/20/0
I just got the m7 on aziir yesterday, he's actually in a very good spot for solo q right now. Which of course means he's getting nerfed soon, but right now he's surprisingly very balanced
I haven't played azir much recently, I'm a fairly new player who got into the game a year ago and I gotta say he's still cancer and I've played him a decent amount, how is he now?
Nah azir is too good ATM he shouldn't be good in soloq ever. I main him too but he is too strong
@@Hello-to8mv please tell me this joke bro
@@Hello-to8mv as explained in the video, you think he is strong because you have a great champion mastery on Azir. the average soloQ player won't even attempt to learn the bird emperor.
@@jaywu4804 I feel like because people make him harder then he is but he is not that's hard I would find stuff like twitch and vayne for an example with more skill expression because azir early game is by far easier to manage and he is late game too stuff like cassio if u want to go for mid probably required more time and skill to learn
i think Azir is in the perfect spot for both competitive and soloQ , he will probably get nerfed soon but it should be a very small nerf and he's gonna be just fine
Lies, do not fill me with hope, false prophet
Nahhh they will gut him if they nerf him
azir is good now but i feel like new patches are indirectly buffing him, which might make him require a nerf soon
You have no clue what a small nerf does to azir I HAVE 800K IN THAT I CANT HANDLE ANOTHER NERF. I DONT EVEN HAVE A PASSIVE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE 130 TOWER DAMGE OFF A TOWER IS NOTHING TO A REAL TOWER OR REAL PASSIVE
@@PlagueDrSmith the tower is great at freezing waves :D
It's quite sad seeing Syndra and Ori weak all time
They are pretty fun imo
Ori does less dmg than most mages in the midgame. I guess she has to due to the amount of utility she brings
@@armageddon7376 She is one of the best enablers of wombo's so her raw damage is decreased since the other parts of the wombo are going to be more successful than they would normally.
Ori is definitely not weak
"Syndra is weak"
Ok
Syndra is actually just fine with the new items, but Ori feels so unrewarding to play, she's more of an utility champ than anything, but the game has gone so far off the rail that the once game-changing ult becomes basically useless.
For me, I absolutely love when a champion has a high ceiling which is rewarded. But one thing I don't like is when a champion gets nerfed for pro play, but the reason they are good is team coordination, not the individual piloting it. For me, the best way to balance champions is to make skill expression super rewarded, but balance it around master solo players, not pro players who have coordinated teams
That or
Just have a different client ONLY for pro play
To be exact, they should play on modified versions of current or older patches, instead of right now patches being made for pro play put on live as if a developer is pushing testing code to production :/
@@fitmotheyap Practice would be a huge problem, especially for the lower ranked teams that have problems finding scrims.
@@fitmotheyap Pro players don't sit down in front of the PC and play 5v5 all day. they spend most of their time in soloQ actually. you can often see the top pros dominating the soloQ ladder in every region.
@@jaywu4804 which is why I said just have modified versions of current patches for pro play instead of nuking the real patch?
They can just read the changes before they go
@@fitmotheyap then they'd just be practicing a completely different game than what they play in pro play. It's like saying that being challenger in soloQ means you'd be challenger in TFT if you started playing. I think they should balance around soloQ, and just let pro play develop its own meta without making changes focused on pro. Other competitive games like SSB Melee have had like ONE patch, and the competitive scene has been very active for longer than League has been alive. That's not even mentioning that League would still get updates every other week, just not focused on pro play.
Honestly, I like the fact there are some champs that are ridiculously skill expressive (e.g., Kalista, Azir, etc) and/or situational (e.g., Ryze, Kog, etc.). Obviously, it means that most people won't be able to use them most of the time, but when they pop up it's really exciting. When Bjergsen pulls out Zilean, it's always really cool to see.
I think the issue only arises due to the min-maxing that occurs in pro-play where, because most pro players will only play a pool of 4-5 champs at a time, they look for only the most broken strategies. So it means champs like Ryze are either pick/ban or not seen. So they spend most of the time just as a ghost until they hit pick/ban status for a patch or two.
It's no fun having a champ that truly is just never gonna be played, even in pro
it's one thing to have a champ be a challenge, or have a skill curve, there are plenty of examples of other champs with that, but being nearly inaccessible and a slog for any player to get into like azir? I still think that's bad design for a character but I see where the rest of y'all are coming from
i really hate the influence pro play has on the game. the game is so fundamentally different when you have full team voice comms, i don’t see how it’s fair to essentially balance for a different game in your base game.
I agree like if you look at Valorant balancing for pro there is relatively more healthy because it’s the same game but with pro team. We don’t get voice comms in league but pro does so they can make coordinated plays and decisions while solo queue cannot to that standard
They should just add voice chat to ranked, and leave norms to be the more casual mode. I know people bitch about toxicity and not wanting to talk with other people, but plenty of other games like Valorant have voice chat as well. Sure it can be toxic but muting is always an option, plus people need to realize that when you are on the internet you are going to deal with toxicity.
I expected to see Gwen in this video. She is starting to get a lot of nerfs to balance her in pro play while drastically lowering her power in casual. She is getting changed very frequently to adjust between pro play and casual and is rarely seen above 47% WR at almost every elo
shes 200 years
@@crackerman5519She isn’t though. She isn’t overturned, her only “issue” is putting a skill like her W on a skirmisher. Except for that, her passive is just dealing damage based on maxHP and healing that portion, her Q is a “skillshot” that deals damages which increase if you attack before up to 4 times and applies her passive in the middle zone; her E is a dash and her R is a skillshot that slow enemies that she can recast up to 2 times. Akshan is 200 years because he can camouflage indefinitely if close to a wall, execute, revive his whole team, track enemies, gain more gold, double attack if standing still, short burst of ms if kiting, “triple hit” passive and shield.
Gwen is almost considered a stat check champion by many. But even if she was, her being 200 years wouldn’t go against the idea that she is a balancing nightmare
@@azurclerx951 I quite like her recent change to make her a bit more friendly to play in lower elos (adjusting the damage to the NON true damage part of the Q). I honestly think she's just got very good and very bad match ups - she doesn't seem like she'll ever fit every teamcomp!
Gwen entered the chat
"NOONE CAN REACH EVEN A FRACTION OF MINE MAGNIFICENCE"
-Aurelion Sol
I feel like Gangplank falls into this category too, if he's anything above 45%-46% he's just busted op.
Cause whoever knows how to use this thing properly can demolish games by himself. The champ can split push, team fight, hes got a relatively safe early game when played properly and scales very well while also denying the enemy laner in laning phase, oh and he also got a global ultimate to get assists/kill secures in the whole map. If GP is even a BIT strong, he is instantly OP cause the champion is like a Jack of All trades, but he is actually master of everything as well lmao maybe that's also the reason why he is so fun to play with.
@@vibingzilla5097 i recently watched some video about the 0 skill GP build which basically over-index on his auto and Qs so you don't need to hit your barrels and just spam Q off cooldown in teamfights while going invis with duskblade after assists and dealing 800 damage with your Q again on another target. interestingly enough, it looks very close to the normal build. lol.
ye gp otp are so strong
Gp literally has the power to 1 shot your team with a single barrel if he gets ahead
@@xpanalogue7294 i mean he has good teamfights but its very hard to lane against otp gp in high elo, my brother is grandmaster on EUW and he said, many times its impossible to lane against him in Soloq,
As a one trick main Renekton, I can say that in most of my matchups people assume that based on renek win rate its going to be a very easy game but they don't expect the damage or variety of plays. I think its worth maining champs that are considered weak or have a low winrate because in my experience since Season 3 people tend to play the current thing only so they kind of hinder themselves
As another renekton main, i totally agree with you. I also feel like the nerfs just made renekton a more skilled champ that needs you to be better if you want to win the matchups.
One time, i saw how the whole enemy team were flaming their Darius because he lost the lane to me as Renekton xd
@@josemarialeongonzalez5183 Asi es tienes razon en tu punto, y tambien me paso similar hace un par de dias donde deje a un darius 0/6 a los 15 mins, simplemente no se la esperan cuando les toca un jugador renek experimentado
Are you na? Because unless it’s level 1 then everyone plays safe from a renekton. He is literally meant to be at his strongest in the early game.
@@xpanalogue7294 my main account is in LAN but I also have a secondary on on LAS, here they tend to be overagressive most of the time pre level 6 against renekton
Yasuo and Yone mains when they get nerfs into bad winrate : you already know what follows
Ryze mains when comes the nerf :
35 % winrate is THE PLAN
Yasuo and yone nerf? Impossible
Yasuo and Yone did not receive any nerf because they are shit since S11 Pre Season
Last time Yasuo was strong, it was in S10
And he got his base HPs gutted hyper hard
@@OuhHey i honestly have no idea if you are joking or not
@@dragonsreingsupreme1
Above Silver, Yasuo and Yone are truly shit
Just look the stats
+ They're easy to counter and play around if you're not a degenerate
And I don't even play them btw
@@OuhHey ........ so random internet guy says their shit while most challenger streamers say yone at least is freelo... good to know
Riot makes pro play too big of a factor in their balancing
Agreed. More than 75% of the game's population is gold or below, after all.
As a gwen player (who is mostly struggles with the same problem) i might be sad for the nerf but I solved my sadness by seeing it as a challenge from the game over choosing whether or not to sacrifice playing a better champion to climb easier and give up my enjoyment
of it. But i won't give up .not now not ever ✊
✨✨✨✨ More players like these please 🫰
The best, though costly, solution that comes to my mind is simply creating champs that both counter popular pro play picks and are viable in pro play themselves. It's actually pretty criminal that Renek has so few viable pro play counters imo, besides Poppy rn of course.
So many of my favorite junglers are flex picks who have been nerfed out of being able to clear because pro play. Most espeically Gwen, who can't seem to catch a break. It's weird how Riot says stuff like "we want more champions in the jungle" or whatever, but then every time a new flex pick option is discovered they nerf it into oblivion (including ones they intentionally introduce, such as morgana)
We need you to be hired into the balancing team at Riot. Sorry, be the balancing team, they don't have one yet.
I just had a game against vex she hits me with her q for 450 and im like "damn it takes me 3 w's to get that type of damage so unfair" until I realized I can out put that damage 5x faster and to multiple people at the same time while still having a dash, shield, knock up and a slow
As someone who only ever upgraded mastery from 6 to 7 on Syndra, Ryze, Azir and Orianna because those are the champs i enjoyed playing the most. Over the last years i played them just to realize how miserable of an experience it is and to discover how much easier the game is when playing almost any other champ. It also didnt help seeing that i realitivly easily reached diamond for the first time this season playing almost exclusivly lissandra from p4 to d4 with 60%wr needing 60 games knowing I would easily have needed 200+ games reaching diamond playing my 4 main champions probably never actually making it beacause it is very mentally draining having 1% of the enemys margin for error. Anyways it lead to me quitting league a few weeks ago, I would like to come back if those champs ever get a fair shot again but honestly looking at the damage the game has taken from the last 20 champ releases and the shift from items offering stats to straight up ability like utillity and dmg rendering any good old %ap/ad scalings useless in comparision while also offering less max ap possible than ever. I don‘t think I ever will come back tho because the game just developed away from the way I imagined and hoped it to be ever since I started playing 6 years ago. A lot of us grew really attached to this game like myself but I am 21 now and I guess it‘s not a bad idea to just quit league and use the time on something else.
Got to love when Rakan got a major nerf (his ult silenced him for the full duration) when he had a 46% win rate purely bc "pro-play". While "play makers/1v9ers" like Cat and Akali was getting buffs at that time even though they were at or above 51% win rate. Was never a fan of esports but that was the final straw. It's like how Rell will only ever be good in pros/teams bc if she got any buff she need to be good in solo, pros would swear she's the best even though Leona would still be able to do everything Rell could do but better.
Didnt they announced Rell mini rework? Maybe she will be finnaly playable both in soloq and pro. I might be wrong tho since i heard about it somw time age
Ceiling for Rell is a lot higher though, that's why she's regarded as a better Leona in pro play when her numbers are on par with Leona.
@@cat-vv9xb rell also has FAR more impact in a teamfight, as well as more effective wave management. also her e helps out in a passive, neutral lane a lot more than anything in leona's kit. three things that are much more valuable in pro play than solo queue
As a M7 Rell... no, Leona isn't better than Rell in all what she does. Rell has a lot more impact in tf and, aside from dismounted W, all of her CC is AoE. Also the ability to break shields is a big help against champs who relies on big shields as part of their gameplan, say Sett or Tahm Kench.
Take for example the typical duo of Leona+Miss Fortune. What this combo can do in tf, Rell+Miss Fortune can do better. Not to mention that in synergies like Kai'sa or Samira, where the ADC uses the Supp's CC for their skills (Kai'sa R or Samira pasive), Rell also let them engage easier with her E.
Leona is exceptionaly good at CC'ing one target (though can provide some AoE CC with her Ult) and is more tankier than Rell thanks to W, but Rell is much more stronger in tf and provides more utility aside from CC than Leona.
@@dtm2088 yea I seen the same thing, which makes it so funny seeing ppl defend "their favorite champ" regardless what state their in or if riot openly says that champion isn't performing like they would like at all. It's like when riot pretty much openly omitted they're nerfing Sylas as hard as they could without actually deleting him from the game, to keep him from being in every game/banned every game that tournament run. But yet their were still ppl posting "They might have removed all his damage but ya'll just don't know how to play him. I'm M11 on Sylas and I can 1v18 the whole game as tank." Then you check their account and their gold 4 M5 on Sylas who hasn't touched him since the nerf... but hey, they follow a "pro" who plays only on the testing servers to avoid mmr, who does it... so I'm sure they could to... if they tried.
Rell's whole lore is she's a weapon to try and stand toe to toe with Mord... you know one of the biggest bads in the game. She has multiple voice lines to make her sound like a juggernaut... but in game if she's find by a enemy without someone to tether, she has as much of a survival chance as a jungle camp.
Average Buff fan: picture of Gragas
Average Nerf Enjoyer: picture of Gigachad with azir's head and ryzes tatoos
I think it's because a solo q is so varying in skill level that makes it so hard to balance. You give a champion more pressure presence and he's a monster in pro and high elo but can still be quite useless in solo q.
I like to call this "The Pro Play Curse".
Mid scope updates and CGUs, I think, are a really sweet way of making some of these "always weak" Champions more viable in soloq. Syndra has been teased to a mid scope update and I hope Syndra mains can rejoice.
I am rejoicing so fucking much
CGU is just killing a champion. That’s a very lazy way to fix them
As a graves main i can 100% agree with these points.Strong or not graves only shines the higher you go in skill divisions since he thrives when playing at his own pace which happens to be the pace of the game when shit doesnt go full fiesta.When i was still in gold i found it very hard to play graves solo even in normals cause the game went to very diffrently were if i was playing with friends we could atleast control our plays to the point were the pace of the game benefited my champion.Still the funniest shit ever was me being 0/0/0 for 20 minutes only to go bot and kill a full hp lux with one auto(yes i powerfarmed my ass off,also i was about 4 lvls up)
I hate Graves because of his braindead playstyle. He just walks at you and if he doesn't win, he has a quite effective disengage. Very few champs can play with such a disregard for positioning as Graves. Nothing is more frustrating than getting perma invaded by Graves. Disgusting champ and I'm glad he's not being played right now.
@@TheSilvantor Wont lie true.Its more of a double edged sword.If you start fights without being at your strong point you are basicly a melee adc with no damage that gets oneshot.On the other hand as you said graves can also just walk up and if he want to he can piss off.One thing though about the disengage,if he uses ult its a pretty long cooldown(for skirmishers) and if he wastes e he cant fight until he resets it.
As a former Aphelios main and Ryze semi-mastery, I can confidently say that playing these champions are the most polarizing experience in League, no matter (and sometimes because of) how much time you put into them. There will be games where your average soloq brain cannot function properly and get the wrong guns or use the wrong ult, costing your team the game or use realm warp too hastily at the late game and miss a good flank, or be absolutely blown up despite building every possible defensive items in existence simply because their 0-10 zed got 2 items. However when you do pop off as aphelios you feel like nobody can kill you because you can 2-3 auto them and kill them and do baron damage, turret damage, make picks from afar, be the team's zoner and single handedly winning neutral exchanges... while ryze deals so much damage while being practically un-burstable with frozen heart, clearing more waves and getting more money, more damage... I would enjoy a bit of consistency with these champions for sure, because my hard win- hard loss ratio is at about 1 to 5 at the moment
As an aphelios main too, it’s honestly stressful at times
Could you make a video on the diferences betwen sumoners rift and wild rift. There are some intresting diferences here, like how kraken slayer is a rune.
The easiest way to fix the game for 99.9% of the players as you put it is have separate patches for pro play and solo que. The majority of players shouldn't be punished for the top 0.1% of the ladder. They are completely different games from pro play to solo que and should be treated as such.
Can u talk about Wukong one day?Not because he is in every MOBA , but also the fact that he is still used after constantly nerfs
Just going to point out - if this were a 1v1 game, 45% winrate means winning 45 games out of a hundred. In a 5v5 game though, 45% winrate means the champion is so bad it's dragging down 5 percentage points from literally everyone on your team just by existing(assuming everyone else is playing a 50% winrate champion), because everyone else on your team has an average of 45% winrate when they play with you.
I played a crap ton of Jayce and it's always baffled me how people can't wrap their heads around playing against him... Buy steel-caps to completely gut his damage then punch him in the face post 6, unless the Jayce massively outplays you he will lose that fight vs most of the top lane roster. (this mainly applies in low-mid ranks but considering that's 90% of the player base I think it's still a fair statement)
I feel that pro-play has too big an influence over the game and its balance considering that it's been shown that esports actually turns a negative in terms of profit for investors, and this has gotten me to just kinda expect my mains like Graves and GP to get nerfed every time they are relevant in pro-play, but it's not that bad for GP since I think he's still at a 48% wr (which is absurd for a champ like him) and I can enjoy him if he goes back to 45% anyway
agreed
Pro play is a must for the game, as it helps keeping the game alive. When a competitive game has a dead esport scene, it has a lot of trouble bringing new players in, and keeping old players too.
People get interested in the game, learn the game, or just enjoy watching the highest level of players in the game through pro-play.
So if you stop balancing the game around pro-play you kill your esport scene and you basically kill your game on the long run.
@@simondelacroix18 I agree, however I am definitely not the first to feel that pro-play is far too focused on contrary to solo queue, though I understand the issue behind trying to balance both since they typically run on the same version and both are basically completely different games so they value different things, but yes, pro-play is a massive thing and it does keep the game alive and is even a big source of entertainment for many, myself included.
I should also say that I have no ideas as to how an attempt to "fix" the problem would even look like, I can have my gripes and so can many others but I don't really think there's much of a way to stop the two from being interconnected on a core level aside from literally creating a second version of league for only pro-play which could become it's own issue, we just have to live with it really and give feedback where possible
Gank plank is never weak though.
My suggestion, while difficult to translate to reality, is to separate champion adjustments from soloq to pro play. That way they could nerf a champ that’s too broken for proplayl while the soloq players are still able to enjoy the champion in question.
They can't even remake their fucking shitty client, i doubt they will go thru these lenghts...
RITO is a small indie company. I doubt they have the resources to balance that much. (/S)
This sounds great until you remember that pro players need to practive in soloQ, if the game is actually different between the two environments that wouild just be massive barrier to getting into pro play
@@Tamachii12 Thats why i think they should stop bringing out new stuff and start repairing some of the old stuff, at least they're reworking older champs now
@@CrystalLily1302 thought about that as well and it could also just apply to higher ranks plus proplay however its just an idea and riot would probably never implement it with the problems we already have with the client alone
I feel like all this means is the champs aren’t necessarily bad, they just appear bad due to how difficult it is to pilot them. these champs are balanced around their strength when played at the highest level, whereas with most champs they’re simply trying to reach a 50% wr. Azir is borderline op when you play him well, same with aphelios zeri corki ect. To summ it up, the wr doesn’t speak for the champions value (excluding ryze) if you’re good at the champion, the champ is strong.
Low winrate and high pick rate champs are probably in an ok spot, low winrate low pick rate champs are probably in need of help
Also worth noting that champions are intentionally not all designed to have exactly 50% win rates. There is variance in the best stable win rate for each champion, depending on the champion's characteristics / flexibility / skill expression / difficulty. Makes for a more dynamic game, with the win rate tradeoff being worth the design decision.
I think an important factor to this is that different leagues play different champions, so even if a league only plays the same 30 champions, if another league plays another 30 different champions, thats 60 champions. For example, the champions pointed out in this video, Jayce and Renekton (and even Ryze, who is often memed), are LCK picks, not LPL picks. They might have like 10 games combined this entire split. Top meta was gnar, now its orn and sej and stuff like that. Different regions play different stuff, leading to picks being strong in different regions. And its not like Riot can know what are the actual strong picks, since we only see that in international tournaments, which happen 2 times per year.
Maybe riot could look at their kit and balance around their utility and ability to impact the map rather than pure winrate.
@@ezraho8449 that requires a complete overhaul of the game as the majority of champions can do that
I think League should spilt to 2 version:one for Pro play and one for everyone else.That way more Pro play champs can work better in soloQ because if everyone watch pro play,they can play there champs which out knowing there champs are weaker in Pro play and Riot can finaly Balanced the game.
Exactly. I know that mobas are very different from fps but that’s what cod does. Some guns and equipment are banned on pro play or have worse stats rather than nerfing them to the ground to accommodate for pro play. Really dumb move from Rito.
it's even worse than this, some champs are only decent or good in higher elo, they'll remain useless in lower elo, be it because of the player lacking the skills or the teammates for not knowing how to setup and such, even roles as a whole are unbalanced for most players because of pro play or high elo
Azir and syndra definitely need some kind of rework to make their kit modern.
Azirs kit looks so unique and it fits his lore nicely, but syndra i could see a kit rework
they announced a syndra mid scope
Changing Azir's kit would be like ASol's rework : tearing the originality out of their concepts with a goddamn chainsaw.
I think it's better to get small ajustments. Midscope would be great on him.
I disagree with Azir. Even though he has a weird kit it feels really good to play even when I am inexperienced. Syndrome on the other hand. . .
Azir is a weird mix of artillery and battle mague with a passive that is a separate ability (although cool).
Right now champions like Kallista and Azir are good in pro and solo que. Meta is rlly sometin rn its great
Syndra hasn't been buffed or nerfed in months. They announced they're doing a rework with her like ez olaf sivir .... that's why they haven't been touching her
She is so painful to play rn though
@@kitnal4143 oh she is hot garbage i main her with half a mill points and she is pure garbage
My boy Aphelios will someday be meta again, or so I hope
Ngl I was a renekton main until the ult nerfs. I had an absolute blast on him getting 30 kill game after 30 kill game, but something about those ult nerfs entirely threw off my tempo. Oh well, they partially reverted the ult nerfs and im back on the grind B)
I enjoy playing Syndra and I find her to be very fun to play. It’s just that a lot of the time I find her to be struggling against the more popular mid picks. I would like to say that I’m more of a casual Syndra enjoyer so I can’t talk for Syndra mains who’re definitely much better than I am.
"You're probably seeing this in late July"
Late August: ...
Don't burn out man.
As an Azir main, the first problem you'll probably have when you start maining him is knowing when and how to deal the killing blow. The rest is how to utilize attack move for the first time.
I hate that Jayce got nerfs to prevent him from going to worlds last year but his win rate always sits around 47% and never got compensation buffs for it. But the brothers that sh*t wind? The moment they reach 47% they get buffed almost instantly. Hilarious.
as a Kalista player i hate the fact, that newer adcs can do whatever they want without drawbacks, but kalista still only deals 90% of her attack damage, is unable to cancel her attack animation AND misses attacks whenever the target leaves vision
i have been denied so many kills against akalis, sennas or simple duskblade users, just because of this dumb mechanic
you can literally jump over walls on every single auto attack but hey she is too weak and have too many drawbacks am i right
@@jaywu4804 Do you know how hard it is to jump over a wall using her passive? you literally have to hug the wall as tightly as possible and even then it won't always work.
They nerfed her jump range often enough + an animation that cannot be cancelled also means hou basically hard cc yourself before every jump are you dumb?
++ there are only maybe 4 walls in the map you can actually jump over
As an Azir main I've accepted that he will probably never be buffed again (atleast not a major buff) - I also don't want him to get reworked because I love his kit as it is right now. So my soul is at peace and accepted the fact he will only be loved by the mains who take the time to work around his "weaknesses"
You can take the example of viego with his nasty (bad) winrate but been “balance” a that winrate
Before video,
Rito just can't give them a break, they should deserved better, to show the one that picks them can perform their highest potential, but Rito doesn't like that.
Rito has massively increasing the skill ceiling in recent years by increasing their punishment window until they r not getting pick bcz of how ez to punish them even for pros alike, while also massively decrease the game skill floor by releasing so many overloaded n' compensated slayer-esque champs causing low skill player influx, affecting high elo directly.
Many says Rito is slowing killing their game, I would say it's not wrong by looking at the skill level of players had, it's like comparing two 3000 series graphic card, n' comparing a 1000 to 4000, it was a massive gap.
How do you think the community would react if riot stopped informing what balance changes had occured. Instead just said what champions were buffed or nerfed.
ppl would be incredibly pissed since they wouldn't know how to exploit if vs'ing the champ, or play around it if your the one using it. plus ppl would just find out anyway all it would do i force ppl to look to third party sources for info causing everyone more hassle. I can't think of a single person who would like this
At some point I predict that some company will try split balancing between ranks. Like this character has these stats in Elo 1-4 and another stats when played in Elo 5-7. Even if it sounds stupid now, I can see that some company is gonna try it in the near future.
This got to be one of the rarest times, where Vars answers the question from his title video >.>
(It’s supposed to be lighthearted, love you man).
my problem with the always weak champions is only that they are rebalanced for aram and thus the low winrate champs become totally broken in at least somewhat capable hands there. for ranked i just avoid some of these champs, as my champ pool allows it
Playing league was the first time I've ever heard someone try to argue that pro play should be a different patch than everything else. I've played dota and this has never been a conversation except from iron players who think riki should be nerfed or something dumb like that
The funny thing too is a lot of pro teams still struggle with piloting certain champions. Like Draven is quite often a *viable* pick but not very many pro players are practiced enough on him to pull him out when the number one thing they want is consistency. There are also many games where you see even pros pick hard champions and they just struggle to make champs fit the comp and really should be playing simpler comps.
As an Azir main I felt this... I'll keep playing him because I love the challenge. I don't know if there's a way to fix it - I've come to terms with the fact that it'll always be like this.
tbh since GP has fallen off in pro play its nice being a GP main nowadays. Jayce is my backup pick though if GP is banned or picked so thats a little rough. Love both these champs though. Gragas is my 3rd pick but i only use him as a counter pick or if my team is full AD
My solution would be that in pro play once it gets to group stages the teams after every game (yes, even games within series as that rewards the team who can win the fastest) a champion that was on their team in that game gets banned. We would see a lot more champions that the roughly 35 that's in rotation and the high skill champions can finally get buffed because while it is possible to ban out just one or two roles to keep the OPs for later stages it might not go well depending on what the other teams are doing.
honestly azir could have much more power in his kit if the shurima shuffle was gotten rid of, and i know thats heresy but god his ult has the most forgiving hit box in the game it actualy starts behind him and its really easy to do the shurima shuffle.
the horror that Syndra used to bring when her W allows her to grab additional balls
10 years ago Guild Wars 1 had a thing where player skills had PvE version and PvP version. Rito should do the same and create SoloQ and Pro versions of skills.
"But there are too many champions in LOL to do that!"
GW1 had 10 classes each with hundreds of skills, and I dare say Rito has way more resources than ArenaNet had at the time.
The number of people maining Azir is higher than the number of proplayers total. It's ridiculous that their favorite champion is held hostage by this small group.
Honestly I feel Azir is in a pretty good spot right now, decent pick and ban rate in both soloQ and pro play. And his win rate is just mediocre, not horrendous. Mastering him is very fulfilling and empowering.
i feel like pro play's influence on soloq is too negative, and too great, i think pro play should take place on an entirely different server that is balanced more towards pro play, pro play is already so different than solo q, that it doesnt make sense for they both to have the exact same numbers, i think a proplay server would not have any major changes to champions, prehaps in some places if crucial, but simple number adjustments on a proplay exlusive server would help solo q so much, as it would allow so many champions to actually be strong, withought the damage to proplay.
The problem is who will play on a separate server?
There are too few pro players. Yes, and most are in different teams, which leads to the problem: how to test and train something new or your usual game so that other teams do not know about it? (Because it depends on their victory and their income) on a separate server pro players it is simply impossible.
@@asken2791 any pro team in any game always does their theory crafting and practice in custom lobbies. lol is the most unbalanced game i have ever played. this is my first moba and even i can tell how polarizing this game is just 1 month in.
@@fishbotsid9771 And against whom? Their own teammates that they've played hours with, that they already know their game? So against them sooner or later it becomes boring to play because you know people up and down and will not give you real game experience in the banal knowledge: this muv will work in the real game, or it worked because I know the enemy teammates by heart.
Of course they often use custom mooks, but what makes you think they can't just go to a normal runked in the fifth and check their skills. Go there to learn a new champion, etc.
@@asken2791 ... practice matches are played against other teams. there are more players in a team than the actual guys playing in the tournament the whacky strategies are practiced with them. there are enough players in any team to have a good idea on how the strategy will work. the amount of practice they do in pro matches is unreal. i have a few friends who used to play csgo professionally. they practiced more than 10 hours a day every day against otger pro teams and then more with their own sit out teammates.
@@asken2791 wdym who will play, the pro players? in the pro matches? you can test something on the normal servers just fine, but actual pro games should be played on a server seperate from public servers that has alterations to account for the differences of pro play, pro players can still train on normal servers
I won't comment on other champions, but as a Syndra main, the biggest problem she has, in relation to her ~48% winrate, is that an average Syndra player can't play the champion.
There are no problems with her balance-wise right now, the problems are people not being able to function even at the skill floor levels in no small part due to bad stat prioritization _(for example buying pure damage items like Shadowflame or CDR options like Cosmic Drive or Seraph's Embrace)_ and awful rune sets _(Domination+Inspiration is a rune set where you have about zero runes around the 10 minute mark, whereas something like Sorcery+Precision does EVERYTHING the former does, except it works at all stages of the game and only gets stronger with time)_
In short, for Syndra to not be "weak", she'd have to have her skill floor completely stomped into the ground, which would NOT be good for the champion.
After all the last time she went above 50% was when MYMU was a thing and that made her completely braindead easy to play... and even then it was barely over 50%.
Been playing jayce since this release and i cant clearly see why so many people a problem with him.
Sure he can poke early game have a nice kit for utility in his melee form but he is easy to learn but hard to master.
Besides that hes squishy as hell, no dash, no cc ignore skills, can still be hit while he jumps on his melee q, early to midgame mana problems, his skills on range can all be seen and somewhat easy avoided and the worst of all has a high cooldown on most of his skills.
That's the masters of players came in, they can make him work, but Rito doesn't like that, instead they prefer low elo killer parade which is disappointing to me
his trade pattern has little counterplay for many champions
Just a lane bully that scaling incredibly hard
@@OuhHey Does he scale well now? He is widely considered a feast or famine lane bully since release.
@@nem900 if he doesn't scale well why do pro players dive him every 2 minutes whenever they have the chance to
I think they should have buff/ nerfs to all champs for 2 distinguish groups solo que and group que similar to specific champs having better regen, armor, health, and so forth in aram so that those champs like azir can be buffed/ adjusted in solo que and nerf/ adjusted in pro play/ group que
Garen can put out a lot of pressure--more than most would think--he just has to get fed early. A Garen with 3-4 kills by plate fall is an absolute fucking menace to deal with.
There are three mutually exclusive balance paths that one can take when thinking about champs with a lot of performance variance vs. champs with very little performance variance. One path is to make all of their floors the same, but if you do this then the low variance champs will never see use because they can't carry. A second path would be to make all of the ceilings the same, but that makes it so that the high variance champs never see play aside from a few dedicated players. A third path would be to make the averages all of the same, which means that they'll all see use but the simpler champs will still never carry and probably also never see pro play.
Which path is the right one? I'm not sure there's an absolute right answer but there are clearly some wrong ones. I think letting them all have the same averages and then just accepting that pro players will probably use the riskier picks more often is probably the best move. After all, who is really going to care if Garen never sees pro play? Absolutely no one.
The rough part with some champions (Azir) is that their kit is too unique. Someone like Cho'Gath could get a rework and despite maining him in previous seasons, I wouldn't be upset. Cho'Gath probably would still feel like Cho'Gath. If Azir gets a rework, there will be problems. Azir is too complicated and an overhaul on him to make him usable in soloq would risk losing what fanbase he has. Azir has a very niche playstyle that isn't going to be easy to remodel, but I do think it is somewhat doable. The other thing that is rough is that certain champs have a ton of unique tech that the players wouldn't be happy losing. Nothing is more exciting than playing ARAM, getting Azir, and doing the Shurima Shuffle to catch enemies who think they are safe.
I really feel that Azir has a very distinct feel that wouldn't be easy to change. I hope they find a way, but I honestly wouldn't vote for him in a VGU vote since I'm not confident enough in them being able to maintain his identity.
Cho'Gath I am confident could be reworked without much effort. The only part of Cho'Gath that is core to his idea is his devour and the stacks it gives. Azir on the other hand is the bird with an army who can fly across the field after his enemies. The only part of Azir's kit that could be reworked without much fuss would be his passive and maybe his ult if they can come up with something that actually works when cast instead of breaking a good amount of the time.
I miss old reksai. Bruiser that built full tank and was literally everywhere whenever she wanted. Jungler with a TP basically
here is a crazy idea, why not make different balance changes for pro and solo que, not completely different but not same, but that would be too much for company that can't even fix a client you use need to be able to play anything in their game
Vars clearly got confused when making the video, any respectable player knows that garen has the highest skill roof in the game and it’s the most macro oriented champ while having one of the hardest mechanical combos in the game (to not say the hardest)
Yeah, he really fails in this video. I mean, do he even knows how hard is to not click a minion with Q while trying to click a champion?
@@dragonfelgrand9304 or how hard is to ult on the correct champ in a team fight
TF is at his lowest point rn just because the 100 indirect nerfs weren't enough, riot had to directly gut him too. While all of his items and runes are still getting nerfed. He used to be solid in solo queue but now he's among the likes of Ryze, Azir, Syndra with his 45-47% win rate.
Your point of why renekton is popular because he wins most lanes made me think of champions like katarina and sion who lose every matchup and so they will never really make it to pro play.
The problem with renekton is that he is a solo queue champ that was really strong 4 years ago and because of franchising new teams with new players cannot beat old teams and it results in a stagnation of the meta where pros only play the champs that they have always played
Renekton has good early damage a terrible gap closer and a shit stun. he is there to win the lane which is something for solo queue as you can snowball much easier. The thing is people see renekton as a safe blind where as he is actually an unsafe blind because he is very easily counterable just people don't play the matchup or think because renekton is slightly ahead in gold and exp he is winning the matchup. He also has the problem where he is rarely the best pick after seeing a lane matchup either, as he doesn't dumpster as much as a true counter pick. He needs some love, I would give slice and dice more speed and distance. He is rarely best pick, only when you need a +ve matchup and a tanky top when he is only winning tanky top.
We see the same champs picked in pro play because they don't want to lose their job picking off meta and losing and being blamed, understandably.
it's not fair. imo most of the fun champs are the ones with low win rates so it's hard to play the champs i want to without just losing from champ select
Great video - how about doing a video on the flipside - the "always getting buffed" champs?
Well, Azir and Renekton got nerfed again on the 12.17 patch. Those guys can't catch a break.
I know it's a bit early to call her that but to me it seems that zeri (especially because riot plans to nerf her next patch AGAIN) will be one of these forever weak champions.
I think she is very playable in soloq right now but I don't know how many nerfs she can take until she is dead outside and proably also in proplay
As a masochistic Brand mid, its that Im so effective with no mobility, conditional cc, pure damage. Fire
What you said about pro-play for Smash. I have the opposite life. I used to love Smash, I own all of them. I would like to play it more. But it’s become such a technical thing and it’s all about perfecting and maiming and min-maxing the fun out of it. I sometimes really hate what multiplayer games have become. Far too competitive and too many rankings. I miss the days of just goofing off in Smash with my best friend. For this and other reasons, I prefer single player games, like Breath of the Wild. Yet, I end up playing League the most, because it’s pretty easy to just queue and do stuff, and it’s pretty fun so long as the team isn’t mental booming
Riot only balances for Pro-Play. There are champs in solo queue Diamond+ for months that consistently have 35%+ ban rate and Riot still wont nerf them.
The thing they should do with these champs is make them more self reliant (buffing Jayce's early game for example) but reduce their later game power, with the exception of Azir, who's in the perfect spot IMO. Ryze's ult and weird but powerful combos are the only reasons he's powerful in Pro Play, make his ult so it can only fit a certain small amount of units and buff his base health would be a good start.
Meanwhile shen 56% winrate for idk how many patches
That legendary Zed outplay
As Ryze main,If Riot ever buff my him,i am sure my win rate will sky rocket to 80-90%. Because my win rate with him now in solo queue is almost 60% (VCS server/ diamond rank)
If solo que and pro are essentially different games then why not treat them as such and have balance patches accordingly with different patches for solo and one for pro. Two separate games if you want to put it that way. That could be one way to fix the issue.
so this video basically boils down to riot should just have separate stats for champs when lcs/clash than solo q. sort of like the buffs and nerfs in aram. and i swear if some1 comments on this but that would be to difficult for riot.... they have more than enough revenue to hire and or create a separate team to work on this.
As a Gwen main I know she isnt bad but they just make her harder and harder to play and at some point she wont be worth the work you put in
Exactly so