With that said about Aphelios, couldn’t Jinx technically fall here too? She swaps weapons albeit not nearly as much (I’ve Never played her so I might be out of line) Also to answer your question at the end of the video, I’m actually kinda sad there are more of them. Yes, they do get annoying to fight at times, but it’s also really cool seeing people swapping tactics on how they approach a situation rather than watch one champion holding all the cards in one kit (you probably know which ones I’m talking about). Thought Gnar is ranged at first he has to risk getting up close and personal when he turns to MGnar and with today’s lockdown/stick potential it’s super difficult to get out of face to face situations
I want to see riot make a support shapeshifter that has an enchanter form and a warden form. We already have champions that have a similar mix of healing and tank like Rakan and Taric, so i dont think it would be too hard to make happen
Oh I see... Imagine a Targonian/Piltovian/Ixtal Golen, created to heal and protect, similar to those we saw in Legends of Runeterra, having changing moving parts similar to rell horse, changing from a slow Hammer N Shield very Brick Wall form to a Thin and Tall Figure carrying a Staf and bending rocks/machinery to create shields and walls, similar to Anivia but curving. Nah, you want a Humanoid Pretty Face Ionian champion! - Riot Probably
Optimus Prime Robot mode: CC, protection, sustained damage Truck mode: repositioning/engage, healing (his trailer is a repair station) Hidden passive: if Optimus starts the game with 4 allied robots/mechs, they all combine into -one for all yuumi- Optimus Maximus, and league becomes a michael bay movie
o you sadly happen to be half live as a tank, welp eat my 1.3 k true damage, Also people trying to juke R is just hilarious to watch but not fun to receive
It's basically balancing 2 champions at the same time, even if for the most part they just have 6 basic abilities instead of 4 basic abilities and an ultimate
My prediction : - The difficulty of balancing up to 7 Abilities - Their amount of ability making them to versatile and even more of a balance knightmare - Bug fixing the abilities' interactions with one another
I love these videos, it feels like nowhere near enough people talk about champion design philosophy like you do. Most people that discuss champion design talk about their aesthetics or "__ is broken" but you usually break a champion's kit down to the core aspects in a digestible method.
Vars I just want to mention a thing: Lillia was going to have two interchangeable forms in her original concept (a bruiser form and an assassin form). While we can't be sure if her abilities would change entirely like Nidalee or just power up like Kayn/Rhaast, we can assume Riot still wanted to do a kinda shapshifter in recent times. Only thing that prevented that, people hated it.
As a Jayce main, I can confidently say JAYCE is why true shapeshifters don't exist anymore. Super high skill ceiling but they gave him an absurd combo with his E+Q shock blast, it has damage and range that can compete with actual ults and his melee W has the highest base damage in the entire game as a non-ultimate ability. It does like 400 dmg before ratios. The only reason he isn't as popular anymore is that they basically spent nine months nerfing him during season 8 preseason into season 8 then gave everyone dashes so big effect ultimate became mandatory to compete with the other champions in mid and top. Playing against a good Jayce even when the meta isn't necessarily in a position for him to win the game is still absurd because you have to lane against one of the most stressful Poke/Burst/Rushdown champs in the game that has base stats that make him harder to kill than Darius without items. Jayce E+Q took a lot of his power budget but his mix-up of the dash+burst+AOE+Poke is still one of the worst feelings when you hit level 3 and suddenly have to pray till level 6 and you can try to even the odds. But hey as a Jayce main, I enjoy being a dick, I'm a good jayce which by default probably makes me a bad person after all. He isn't healthy but by god is he fun.
I recall Lillia was supposed to be a shape shifter. She could shift between three forms but the shift was not under players control. Apparently the game testers said the gameplay way so toxic they had to scrap the entire concept mere weeks before release.
This may be why her gameplay feels kind of uninspired then despite her good looking design. Still more interesting than most other new champions though.
keep in mind: shape-shifters basically get two skins. so they're never gonna make another. or if they do its gonna have ridiculously overpriced skins. no more "bogo" deals.
@@randomth1ngs68 i think the point of the video and my original comment is that riot is pretty much done with making MORE of these champs. the one's that still exist, especially the popular ones, will probably still get skins. its just not worth it to make anymore shapeshifters.
They should take some cues from smite with shape shifters. Smite has a good amount of them and have varying play styles and class types as opposed to league where they are all early game champs.
They’re early game champs because they have access to double the abilities before lvl 6. Lvl 3 Shapeshifter vs lvl 3 regular champ is imbalanced af and there’s no way around it
@@ZEFFENWULF for me the balance comes from being able to choose your own counter active. Tyr especially got hurt from anybody being able to get beads&aegis as they kill his red stance 1 instantly.
How about a video about champions with "false" ultimates? By that, I mean spammable Rs that have a lower impact on their own but have synergy with the rest of the kit. It makes their champions have less big flashy moments but allows them to distribute their power budget along longer periods of time. Some examples could be Karma, Leblanc, Quinn, Elise, and Kassadin.
@@Hifeco idk udyr ult doesn't have any extra impact than the other abilities. Kass R, Quinn R, Karma R are pretty damn important in their playstyles but udyr just has 4 equally impactful abilities.
Is it just me or are most shapeshifting champs are highly contested in pro play like elise reksai nida and jayce but average in soloq. And why is that im guessing proplay is more earlygame focused so at lvl 3 your champ has 7 abilities while the enemy has only 3 abilities
also forgot Gnar but that's probably because of a different reason such as being ranged while also being a melee bruiser with cc so he does not need much jungle attention.
@@williamsmith6364 its more so just that at least for the shapeshifting junglers, they need to get their team ahead. Rek elise and nida fall off really quickly if they can't gank and get fed asap, and high elo players know this so they always try to set up ganks and the like if they see one of these champs hovering their side of the map. Also rek and elise are really good at towerdiving, but low elo players a lot of the time don't realise that and get scared of the tower more than they should. Also the fact that if you are good with one of these champs, you will prob be high elo already, since they are fundamentally hard mechanically and macro wise due to needing to get fed really early on. And if you know how to do that you are prob already high elo
Reksai and Elise are pretty bad examples right now as they are nonexistent in competitive but decent to pretty strong in soloQ, and Nidalee is in my opinion just extremely hard to play, but not a competitive slave as azir is (lots of Nidalee mains in High Elo Soloqeue)
I think Shynava is a transformer not a shapeshifter. Like Aatrox, Nasus, Swain, Volibear, etc. Champions who can turn into something when press ultimate or fill passive bar or something, like Shyvana turn into drag, Naus bigger and Swain grow wings and glow red. When they transform, their role don't change just become better version of themselves. Like they get extra stats, temporarily upgrade abilities or both. Sorry for long passage and grammar😄
I think it is kind of a strech to classify Rek´Sai as a shapeshifter tho. Yes, she "Changes her form" and gains different abilities, but once you are in a fight you sorta have to unborrow since you can´t aa while borrowed. It´s not just that her main damage lies in unborrowed but rather that you can´t do any damage without unborrowing (except q). She seems more like a sub-Shapesifter IMO.
Same with Kled really. Only one different ability. Actually, Kled only has 3 abilities since W is a passive. He shouldn't be compared here. Lee Sin is more fitting since he has 6 abilities and an ult.
Rek'Sai has one damage form and one utility form, instead of two damage forms like the rest, making her more unique. Her two forms play vastly different, like the rest of the shifters. Sure, she only uses un-burrowed in fights, but it's her burrowed form that makes me love her so much. It is by far her best form, giving amazing free vision and up to 8 flashes on a 2 sec cd with all her tunnels, surpassing even Talon in potential map presence. Everyone can deal damage, but very few can match her target access, mobility and vision which makes her unique, not her boring linear damage, everyone can deal damage.
would have loved to see Rell as a true shapeshifter... and as a madman, why not give her three forms with only 2 abilities each and 1 ult per form : mounted, fast, light support with small shields and speed buffs ; armored, slow, big self-shield, self regen and cc ; and empowering an ally were the shield is given to the ally, stat buffs based on her AP for the ally, short ranged high damage and healing for one ally
Imagine a support shapeshifter that can shift between enchanter and engage/tank. But not with an ability or an Ultimate, but with a passive. The tank form is like an armor that you can equipt/wear *just in base* (kinda like Corkis package that you pick it on base) and that armor gives you aditional health, resistances and damage reduction that scale with level. The aditional health that the armor gives you would be like Skaarls health (a "second" bar) that makes you shift form when is over but with a little twist, when that second bar is over the armor explodes knocking up/stunning every enemy that is near the armor, after the armor explodes and you are near the armor your movement speed gets reduced for idk 3 seconds (this for not making this champ an OP one), your aditional resisistances and damage reduction is gone. The tank kit focused on CC and tankyness but with an ability to send the support flying away (like Tristanas W) while leaving the armor behind and if you recast it you can explode the armor The enchanter kit focused on shields, buffs and heals A support like this would be interesting to see You can even make it so the support needs to roam to collect armor pieces to create the armor, instead of just picking it from base
It would be cool to have a champion that in the beginning of the game, gets to choose from 1 of 5 consumables that then effects the direction their base scaling goes. The potions would be for 1. health 2. Resist 3.Move speed 4.Adaptive damage and 5. Ability haste. You only get to choose ONE, so this champ could technically go in any role depending on what potion they want to take. The champion would also change the moment they take the potion, matching in appearance to whichever he/she takes. A nightmare to balance no doubt but, would be so dope.
I think if they ever make a true shapeshifter again, then it will be more like Gnar or Kled than Jayce or Nidalee in that they have very limited control over when they transform. Actually now that I think about it, I would bet that when Shyvana gets a VGU she'll get the shapeshifter treatment, rather than just stronger abilities.
I really do hope they come back, i'm a Guild Wars 2 player and the entire game is designed for you to switch betwen your main and secondary weapons. It's just so much fun. I wish we had a champion that in one form is a control mage and a phisical melee assassin on the other.
You should try mobile legends, Selena it's exactly that She has a very long range stun and traps in the mage form, a double dash and an empowered basic attack in the melee assassin
That's true, when they put zero effort in MF's Gun Goddess Ultimate Skin, the most expensive skins of the bunch, what makes people think they'll put effort in champs that are 2 in 1. Kayn is especially a testimony to this idea because despite how popular he is, he's barely received any skins at all.
11:43 I would definitely disagree with that, since the abilities that make or break a champion are mostly not the ultimate. Maybe if you only look at a single usage of every ability but that should not be how you have to look at a power budget.
I would love to see a support shape shifter as I personally love the mechanic. I think it would be really cool if they implemented the "ranged Udyr" idea they had, and made a Shaman that shapeshifted between a ranged enchanter built around 3 deployable totems with different simple area effects and interactions, and a melee engage form where he/she "becomes the totem", ie they provide similar buffs but centered around themselves, encouraging allies to get in there with them. I can imagine: P: Can switch between stances without cost, on a 10-5s cooldown. In ranged form abilities place a totem on the ground with 2-6 hits (like a ward or yorick wall). Switching to melee form will consume the two most recent active totems and give the champion altered effects. Melee form has bonus health, armor and AD. Ranged form has bonus ms, mana regen, Q: A font of life style mark on enemies in the area, with a 20% slow on first attack. Consuming the mark gives a 5-10s burst of adaptive force. Melee form: the shapeshifter's attack becomes a small dash (Illaoi W) and first attack stuns for 0.5 s instead W: Melee form a large zone that redirects damage from allies to the champion as damage over time, and their damage back to you as healing. Switch to ranged cleanses remaining DoT. E: Grant true sight in an area (finally an Akali counter), and when the champion and an ally is in range, drain the champions mana and give to allies (Soraka's old E). Melee form: Champion and allies gain bonus ms and become ghosted. R: switch shape I think there are a lot of cool directions the creative work could take, but the kit for sure would need some work, these were just some thoughts.
12:24 are u sure about that? I'm pretty sure champs nowadays already conflict with how League of Legends was designed from the start with 1 passive, 3 basic abilities and 1 ultimate. They have multiple passives in their passive, more than one basic ability in a single basic ability, passives in their basic abilities/ ultimate, their basic abilities having as much impact as an ultimate, their ultimate basically being a basic ability, etc, etc.
Isn't Gnar the only exception to the rule that all shapeshifters are Early-Mid champs? Because I've always felt he does better as the game goes on (Mid-Late game).
@@blastedsnake Well, he can be one on certain matchups... as long as they don't have some sort of dash (like Irelia) or a skill that can outrange him and has auto-aim (like Malph's Q).
I really like the forced change shapeshifters. I play a lot of Kled and knowing when you’re gonna lose Skarrl or get him back is where you get to flex on your opponets. Same with playing around Gnar’s transformation. Seeing how much rage has been built and knowing when to go in or back off is a depth i like. It shows the champion and game mastery.
Rell had a huge shapeshifter potential, like he could became an charging knight, them shapeshift and became something like an bastion, but riot is to lazy to do something good.
As a fan of theorycrafting myself, I once made a Quinn rework where she became a shapeshifter, which I know, she used to be, but I went on a direction more similar to Rek'sai, albeit it still being her ultimate. She gets her ultimate from level 1 and its form gets new abilities. Her bird form's W is her current human form's W, her new human form's W is, roughly speaking, an instant consume of all units marked with her passive for some more wave clear. In addition, her bird form's Q is a quick burst of movement speed and her bird form's E is similar to ASol's or Kayn's E allowing her to cross over terrain for a short duration. That said, I kept her bird form abilities extremmely simple not to make her kit too overloaded. Q = movement speed, W = vision, E = ignore terrain while her human form's new W gives her quicker waveclear.
4:29 'designing and maintaining a shapeshifter is no easy task' In contrast of Irelia, Akali, Yone, Zoe, Akshan, AS, Azir, Ryze, Fiddlesticks, Urgot, Morkdekaiser, which were/are easy to balance
Zoe and Fiddle? Their design is good (fiddle one is probably perfect) they just touch some numbers when they are overpowered or underpowered and that's all
@@calmgentleman finally another cultured being. From my point of view, Jayce is much harder and therefore harder to lane against, but you cant blame him cuz he actually use skill to play. Unlike Akali and yone who can mash their keyboards and you just dieeeee
If the extra skins would be worth the effort, then they would do it. The League community simply told Riot "We're not interested in supporting these kinda champions" when they did not play them or bought their skins.
jayce doesn't have this problem, they just change his weapon and animations kinda like jinx, but she doesn't get extra habilities when she changes weapons, they thought about doing that with jinx
Can you count Sion as a shapeshifter? Primarily a tank cc-beast, but once he's killed his transformation triggers, and he turns into an all-in damage dealer for a few seconds. And some people focus specifically on the second form by building him as a glass-cannon assassin to capitalize on his second form's damage output.
"The concept of turning offence to defense is impossible to pull off" is false. Sylas ult turns ult that is ad to ap, hence it is possible to turn offensive stats to defensive and vise versa but its just how much is the question.
That's not offense to defense. That's offense to offense. It would be if Physical Attack became Special Attack. It's much harder to turn AD scaling into %armor for instance.
@@VarsVerum yes it is offense to offense but in coding its just changing sylas ult code from ap to a desired stat for a certain champ. Ex turning 100% of human ap nidalee to 75%ap and 25%hp or 75%ap, 10%hp and 15%ms or cd. I dont remember how nidalee r works entirely but i am just using her as comparison.
I used to be a gnar one trick, when I first got the game I scrolled through the champ list looking for the cutest champ to play and I chose gnar, so I began one tricking him, I have 153k on him now but I rarely touch him, I have now shifted over to jayce after accidentally locking him in a like 6 months ago when he was on rotation and falling in love with him (very hyped he was arcane he’s so hot, but people really suck ass at him) and I find that yes, a lot of people don’t know how to play against jayce, I personally enjoy him in the mid lane, and I roam a lot because a lot of mid lane match ups are hard, like akali, except I think akali is one of the most busted champs I’ve ever seen. Although he doesn’t fall of too hard late game since he can poke from so far away, I find him really fun and I hope riot doenst try to change him, because in his current state, he isn’t good in the meta. Gnar on the other hand is a beast tho, his early and late game are good. That’s my spiel that has no purpose other than to say I love Gnar and Jayce (he’s so hot)
6:54 "one form being artillery, and one form being a diver" that is quite literally what jayce is -- insanely high damage on long range poke, while being able to dive your backline when 1 or 2 targets are below 60% hp
damn bro, i’ve been watching you since the realm videos, and watching u grow, all i have to say is wow! You deserve all the credit you get because goddamn these videos are so well edited
I have always loved shapeshifters. A champ that I think would be really cool to see would be an enchanter shapeshifter. I really like darkin so I’d like to see another one and make it freely change between human and darkin stance (unlike kayn), where the human drains hp to shield and protect while the darkin more relies on damage to regain the lost health. I think it would also just be really cool to have a darkin dynamic that also cooperates with their host
The problem with Joyce is that a skilled player can land both empowered autos and basically have void staff and grudge applied to the enemy for a second which makes his next attack just hurt unless you have like 5k hp, the best option might be to change his passive from magic armor and armor shred to like stun, lowers the skill floor provides a still good passive and decreases his burst output but making his ability to catch or escape you higher
As far as I'm aware, when Anything Goes became a thing with the advent of Mega Rayquaza, Ubers was granted the status of being an actual tier (since that meant it had a ban list), although I wouldn't be surprised if people treated it as an actual tier (albeit unofficial) beforehand (for example, DPP Ubers has had Arceus legal and banned throughout the years). I might be mistaken, though, I'm not fully knowledgeable about the history of its status as a tier (or of Arceus' legality in DPP Ubers, for that matter), I haven't been an avid Ubers player myself.
I just realized because of this vid, that I kinda wish swain had an empowered ability during ult. It's literally called demon form. Even if it's just like a simple passive cd reduction so u can pull more often
In a Moba called Heroes of the Storm there are only 2 shape shifters that you can play, Greymane and Deathwing, I don't remember how greymane is doing but I can say that his gameplay is similar to Nidalee, Deathwing on the other hand I know what is going on with him now. Simply put he has a melee and ranged form, his trait was that his allies cannot heal him but he has 4 plates that give him passive armor against all damage and he can lose up to 3 plates with each being assigned to a specific 1/4th of his health and lastly he is permanently unstoppable. on release it was all about the melee form to the point that most players would never go into ranged form, you could see that Blizz tried to make both viable by making it that the melee has more damage and healing but lacks CC while the ranged has less damage and healing but is safer (ofc since it's ranged) to heal back up but by also being the form with the most CC, however that didn't matter as Deathwing was so tanky and melee form did so much damage and healing that you could just go in and 1v5 the whole enemy team and the only thing stopping you from doing so was if the enemy had percentage health damage, so Blizz nerfed his melee form and capability as a tank to the point that now in the recent games that I have been into I almost never leave the ranged form for the melee as in most situations it's just suicide especially if the enemy team have characters with percentage health damage
You could balance items for offense/defense by giving champ a passive that partially converts the bonus stats from items to another type (armor/attack, magic resist/AP) based on their current form. That way they can itomize based more on the Passives/Actives of the items, rather than their stats
Though, Aegislash was banished to Ubers because of his mix sweeping ability, I.E. you'd take an HP nature that sacks speed, go Shadow Ball/Shadow Sneak/Sacred Sword, Rock Slide or Iron Head/King's Shield. Max out Sp. Atk and Atk, swap in, win game. Though the reason he's still their is because its easy to get free stat boosts, like Sword Dance, or you can run a defensive stall-esq set and ware down any bulky pokemon or swap into sword stance and nuke a squishy pokemon. The issue with it wasn't because it could wall or pump out serious damage on a whim, but because it had too much coverage. Even as a wall, he can check both sp. attacker and regular attackers because if you build him sp. defence, and take kings shield, he's flexible enough to check to either attackers because King Shield would lower attack by two stages if he blocks an attack with it. Also his stats are nutters with 520 total stats, with atk/sp. atk, being able to be swapped by 100. So he'd have access to 320 in total stats plus 200 that can be swapped.
Though a vastly different game, Dota;s Lone Druid I think you would find interesting Mr Vars. LD himself is a shapeshifted between a ranged and melee form once level 6 but also has a second gimmick in his kit that he is more well known for. His Q summons a bear thats a summon with a hefty cooldown but is summoned indefinitely or until it or LD dies. The Bear produces a dual playstyle where the bear has its own items so when reaching ultra late game, an LD can have 6 items both on the Hero and the Bear. A really good and efficient LD is a marvel to watch but his balance has not been the nightmare that some of League and Dota's similar characters faced. Also there has been a highly diverse build paths over the years, many opting for a bear focused build making the bear become a hypercarry and the Hero to support it with buffs and auras, but there have been times when people build the Hero as an attack speed / on hit carry and using the bear to tank and peel. Love your content, hope you could look into some design choices made in other similar games without the classic league player mentality of "LOL BETTER DOTA". All the best Sir x
A big part of the problem is League's all-in character design. In DotA 2, there's Troll Warlord who can swap between Melee and Ranged stances, with only one ability changing between the two. Whirling Axes are a cone that slow in Ranged, while Melee is an area around Troll that give them a chance to miss. What Berserker's Rage (his shapeshift ability) does is it grants him a ton of Range in one form, while the Melee form gets bonus armor, bonus attack speed (kinda), Movespeed, and a chance to root the target on hit. League could easily make a Shapeshifter who can, at will, trade Range for bonus Armor and some Lethality, allowing them to be more of a bruiser or an ADC while having to build around swapping forms. Kinda like Jinx, except it's not AoE or increased fire rate. Even Lone Druid, who goes from a Druid to a Bear, still has most of the same abilities
They tend to fall off because they don’t have an actual ultimate that helps them get ahead. Look at Jayce for example. He has a pretty lackluster late game and sucks in team fights because while he has 6 abilities, that’s about it. No game changing, AOE one shot ultimate or a utility ult.
They tend to fall of cuz they have the strongest lvl3 powerspike in the game, and if they're given good scaling as well they will be the strongest class in the game (except for gnar who can't chose his form and who is rubbish in teamfights if he is not mega).
What if you made a shapeshifter that actually do swap stats around. Like let's say your main form is a ranged champion but then when you transform your amount of AD turns into an amount of bonus health. Then your attack speed and crit could turn into armor/mr or something. You'd obviously need to work out the percentages for all these swaps but I feel like that'd be a cool idea. That way you don't need to change items.
Riot did say that originally Aphelios was intended to be a mage, and I really really want an actual wizard with a spellbook who changes out which abilities he has without affecting his playstyle for example maybe his q is a blast spell, and his w is a wall spell, and his E cycles between which element of spell he is using fire maybe does some extra burn damage, ice maybe causes a slow, lightning maybe reduces auto attack speed or lowers magic resist or something, the walls might be sort of like passable wall but it blocks vision, so you can walk through it but you can't see through it, or idk, something, and the wall should persist for a few seconds, damaging everyone who lingers inside of it while temporarily slowing anyone who trys to move directly through it until they get through this way the wall is a get off me tool and zone control, and the blast is the primary source of damage, and then the ultimate is some sort of cover up for the weaknesses of the champion, maybe it's an empowers the next w or q that you cast, the ability that makes the wall solid, and larger, and it massively increases the aoe of the q or maybe it's just a really big area cone, following the same rules as the qw, and maybe it's lingering effect is simply more powerful or has a longer duration
I wouldn't say Gnar or Kled count as the transformation is dependent on other things and you can't decide when you transform, although I'm not sure about Evelynn either. I suppose you could put them in tho
Actually ubers was solidified as an official competitive format when Anything Goes was made during gen 6, which is now the ubers banlist. However pokemon can not rise to ubers based on popularity and must explicitly be too strong for OU. But it is a format which is played in tournaments while AG is a true banlist without real tournament play.
I know that we are talking about Riot's champion design team, but I'd really wish to see the equivalent of an Aegislash champion, someone who could build AD who loses a chunk of the AD for resistances in defense stance but also build tank and lose a part of the resitances for damage in attack stance. It'd be such an interesting playstyle, but it could also lead to a second champ with a sword and shield.
hey! i actually made a similar champ that focuses on defense and attack in lthe span of like 20 mins you should be able to find it by ctrl + F my name it's AP not AD but i would love some commentary and ESPECIALLY critiques on it :)
"Aphelios always plays as a back line adc, doesn't go to melee" *laughs in crescendum severum combo* Also Gnar is a pretty cool shapeshifter as he does almost what you said they don't, changing stats to change a playstyle. Gets e attack speed and movement speed in mini and gets hp ad and defense INSTEAD of it in mega. Unpopular opinion but mini Gnar is very underrated. His Q + W stacks can deal a ton of dmg and with the slow + speed + jump you can kite extremely well, he's almost like an adc just a bit less dmg but bit tankier. I've gotten so many kills with him when people thought "Oh his mega is over I'll go in and kill him now" and underestimate it, then I kite them to death lmao
Yes he does play as back line adc. He ofc is strong in melee range with that combo or sometimes crescendum alone but he plays as a someone who stands his ground against engage champions well and usually still kites backward like any typical adc (unless his opponents undersitemated him which means he then orb walks forward and punishes them) but he neither rushes like a moron heads up to the battle just because he has a combo neither he can since he need a set up for that from Gravitum or Calibrum. Therefore nobody picks Aphelios with aggressive diving team comps since Kaisa and Samira are the aggressive adcs that go in and Ezrael and Tristana are the flexible ones that perform better in skirmishes due to their versatile mobility that allow them to play both aggressively and manevroue back to safety in a messy skirmishes in situations where any other adc (Aphelios included) cause of one misstep.
About the Pokemon tiers there's technically another tier that's called "Anything Goes" which consists only of Mega-Rayquaza. It's so powerful that it's even banned from Uber. Or at least that was true before Sword and Shield, I'm not too up to date in that regard
As one of the 3 people in the world who play Shyvana I would argue that she is a shapeshifter. Your human form only exist to build fury for dragon form. Dragon form is the only one you fight with past 6. If you’re going AP you sit in the back line and nuke people and if you’re going bruiser it’s more similar to human form. (But most people go AP)
What if a future shapeshifter was, say, a damage dealer/tank who's passive converts bonus defenses into bonus attack when in their damage form and bonus attack into defenses in their tank form, translating the effects of some of their items to fit their form?
however giving shapeshifters two item inventories would balance out because it also would DOUBLE the amount of gold for them. This would mean shape shifters would priorities one form over the other in terms of building items before moving to the second one. With how short League games are, a Shapeshifter would just allow the player to tailor their play and build to their team. Almost like how Kayne can tailor to being an off tank with Red giving CC for his team if they lack it, or going Blue to murder the other teams ADC and Mages if your team already has good CC/engage.
I really like Rek'Sai, because she does have an ultimate but can still change form whenever she wants. I don't think that her burrowed form is weaker than the un-burrowed, because if used correctly it is basically 8 flashes on a 2 second cooldown, hard CC and free long range "vision" with Q and Tremor Sense. Sure, her playstyle is pretty linear as a diver/assassin, but the real skill expression isn't how good you can deal dmg with un-burrowed form, but rather how good you can use her amazing utility in her burrowed form. All the other shapeshifters have a more "damage"-focused approach in both of their forms, or at least "neutral game" functions in the ranged/secondary one. In Rek'Sai's case her burrowed form is almost purely utility (Prey Seeker is mainly a vision tool), which makes her stand out from the rest.
I wonder if they made a shifter that had his transformation move oh his e and gave them a temporary steroid like udyr instead of ult /what if it was only temporary
I like shape shifters they are pretty fair, but you need to know their kit like hell to play them & also face them. I think we can still have shapeshifters. Melee to mele or range to range. on a rek'sai model. One form sustain / 1 DPS ( that's what i hoped for Aatrox rework) One AoE, one Mono target. ( jinx rocket are a good one, but it could work on sivir too & define her kit betwenn battle mistres & mercenary leader utility) Caster/AA Spirit/ Material form. ( that one is more a theme to explore) Mana/ Rage Sustain/CC ( for a tank) that could offer obvious windows of opportunity.
I think the thing that redeems Gnar is that you have to manage your rage and make sure you don't screw up your engage. As soon as he goes back to mini form, he's super weak and as long as he doesn't have his E, it's pretty easy to capitalize on his weakness. His engage is also pretty predictable once you realize what he can and can't do. It's similar to nidalee's combo, but you aren't dead as soon as you get hit by one ability. I do see how he can be pretty annoying though, especially when the gnar knows what he's doing.
I highly doubt you fully own the BGM played in the entire video, so could you put the songs in the description at least in future videos? Also what's the BGM in this vid?
500+ comments Im sure someone said this already 4:55 and before Riot actually created a new Shapeshifter, but it was cut off in the development leaving us the lovely dreamguard deer :3 Her initial concept revolved around good dreams and nightmares As much as I like Lillia as a champion, the idea also sounds awesome, but if I remember correctly it wasn't really in the kit when to shift shape and more like bound on ingame time which isn't healthy in the first place You might be right with stating it's too complicated to develop new shapeshifter, but let's be honest, that won't stop riot from doing it O.o
They should rework A Soul to switch between close and far orbits, changing his abilities depending on the form. Like in small form his q swaps the rotation direction, his w passively charges a storm, and can be activated to release a slowing blast around him. His e lets him fly to a location rapidly charging his storm and allowing it to get bigger than the normal cap, but it will rapidly decrease in size as soon as he stops dashing. Then his ult swaps orbits and his q makes them orbit faster, his w releases the storm in target direction as an aoe stun, and his e releases the storm like his ult. Swapping during his dash will end the dash and release the storm which continues moving and starts shrinking until it’s gone, stunning based on size (large orbit w). Obviously the numbers would be reduced but he would have more combos than just spacing and timing, and his kit wouldn’t feel so lackluster.
Gnar isn't necessarily build around the mega form. Usually the mega form only provides a short team fight engage, but his mini form can run down entire teams, when played correctly. He combines a tanky adc with a tank diver, if you build too much on one of them he gets useless pretty fast. So I would disagree that the mega form is 'stronger'.
something you didn't mention but is a very good example: Gnar on release was an absolute nightmare from what I remember. He dominated top lane and there was very little you could do to stop him from taking over the game, simply because he did too much.
Head to www.squarespace.com/vars to save 10% off your first purchase (and 2 weeks free!) of a website or domain using the code: VARS
I can see your monetization is back ! Good news :)
With that said about Aphelios, couldn’t Jinx technically fall here too? She swaps weapons albeit not nearly as much (I’ve Never played her so I might be out of line) Also to answer your question at the end of the video, I’m actually kinda sad there are more of them. Yes, they do get annoying to fight at times, but it’s also really cool seeing people swapping tactics on how they approach a situation rather than watch one champion holding all the cards in one kit (you probably know which ones I’m talking about). Thought Gnar is ranged at first he has to risk getting up close and personal when he turns to MGnar and with today’s lockdown/stick potential it’s super difficult to get out of face to face situations
U forgot to mention Quinn, the shapeshifter that is no longer one.
Tbh when I heard about vex i though we will be able to switch between her and shadow
what music did you use in the vid? it was very relaxing that I would like to hear it once more
Aphelios can shapeshift from a champion to a headache.
To play that is
How is a champion that dies to a sneeze a headache?
@@claudiocosta6348 Thinkg he was reffering to the ppl that would have to play him.
Hwei joined him in 2023 XD
Lee sin be like:
Peasants need to shapeshift to have 6ability
U mean 7?
Yes mb
*Rengar has joined the chat*
@@CLxJames those are empowered skills tho, if that counted as well Pantheon, Renekton and Karma would have 7 skils as well
@@lukazgarza4075 I disagree, the empwered W and E are completely different abilities. He doesnt get a bigger shield if you W the second time
I want to see riot make a support shapeshifter that has an enchanter form and a warden form. We already have champions that have a similar mix of healing and tank like Rakan and Taric, so i dont think it would be too hard to make happen
That'll be a breath of fresh air, ngl.
That would be super cool probably won’t happen though
damn that seems like an insanely creative idea but might be broken.
Oh I see...
Imagine a Targonian/Piltovian/Ixtal Golen, created to heal and protect, similar to those we saw in Legends of Runeterra, having changing moving parts similar to rell horse, changing from a slow Hammer N Shield very Brick Wall form to a Thin and Tall Figure carrying a Staf and bending rocks/machinery to create shields and walls, similar to Anivia but curving.
Nah, you want a Humanoid Pretty Face Ionian champion! - Riot Probably
Optimus Prime
Robot mode: CC, protection, sustained damage
Truck mode: repositioning/engage, healing (his trailer is a repair station)
Hidden passive: if Optimus starts the game with 4 allied robots/mechs, they all combine into -one for all yuumi- Optimus Maximus, and league becomes a michael bay movie
You forgot Garen. He can transform from vanilla easy to kite to Instant Killer of ADC chad pretty easily.
o you sadly happen to be half live as a tank, welp eat my 1.3 k true damage,
Also people trying to juke R is just hilarious to watch but not fun to receive
@@nsreturn1365 Sett's W: beach please
@@MrLuzakman oh no. cringe
"Easy to kite" meanwhile garen has more mobility than 99% of adcs
Quinn once was shapeshifter before season 6...
Trueeeeee
She used to be a lane bully too but now she cannot outdamage the minions in early game
@@teomangurbuz Wait, isn't Quinn still a lane bully?
@@OklahomaHotdog she hits weaker then caster minions :(
Kinda still is
It's basically balancing 2 champions at the same time, even if for the most part they just have 6 basic abilities instead of 4 basic abilities and an ultimate
But there's still aphelios and qiyana who have more that 4 abilities
You mean 3 basics + Ultimate
and then there's lee sin
@@sanketower Never played Aphelios huh
@@sfsreiq he mean the "4 basic abilities and an ultimate" what would make 5 so he corrected him
What about Yasuo?
When he's my mid laner he's just Yasuo but when he's in the enemy team he shapeshifts into Faker.
Do not insult him
My prediction :
- The difficulty of balancing up to 7 Abilities
- Their amount of ability making them to versatile and even more of a balance knightmare
- Bug fixing the abilities' interactions with one another
Then they release a champion like viego
@@hisbro10 biggest shape shifter
Also maybe new champions being so versatile without having 7 abilities making shapeshifters obsolete
Also Viego and Sylas glitching them into oblivion
But they created Sylas and Viego , lmao
Anivia is also a shapeshifter.
Cryo bird, opressive burst, good crowd control and good wave clear.
vs.
Egg
Egg one shots the bird
I mean they missed soo many there really isn’t just 6 like shyvana neeko zac sylas Virgo rell like that’s more than double and I probs missed some
I love these videos, it feels like nowhere near enough people talk about champion design philosophy like you do. Most people that discuss champion design talk about their aesthetics or "__ is broken" but you usually break a champion's kit down to the core aspects in a digestible method.
Always happy to entertain :3
Vars I just want to mention a thing: Lillia was going to have two interchangeable forms in her original concept (a bruiser form and an assassin form). While we can't be sure if her abilities would change entirely like Nidalee or just power up like Kayn/Rhaast, we can assume Riot still wanted to do a kinda shapshifter in recent times.
Only thing that prevented that, people hated it.
You couldn't control when you switched was why. And the kit differences didnt work well like mini vs mega gnar.
As a Jayce main, I can confidently say JAYCE is why true shapeshifters don't exist anymore. Super high skill ceiling but they gave him an absurd combo with his E+Q shock blast, it has damage and range that can compete with actual ults and his melee W has the highest base damage in the entire game as a non-ultimate ability. It does like 400 dmg before ratios.
The only reason he isn't as popular anymore is that they basically spent nine months nerfing him during season 8 preseason into season 8 then gave everyone dashes so big effect ultimate became mandatory to compete with the other champions in mid and top.
Playing against a good Jayce even when the meta isn't necessarily in a position for him to win the game is still absurd because you have to lane against one of the most stressful Poke/Burst/Rushdown champs in the game that has base stats that make him harder to kill than Darius without items.
Jayce E+Q took a lot of his power budget but his mix-up of the dash+burst+AOE+Poke is still one of the worst feelings when you hit level 3 and suddenly have to pray till level 6 and you can try to even the odds.
But hey as a Jayce main, I enjoy being a dick, I'm a good jayce which by default probably makes me a bad person after all. He isn't healthy but by god is he fun.
I recall Lillia was supposed to be a shape shifter. She could shift between three forms but the shift was not under players control. Apparently the game testers said the gameplay way so toxic they had to scrap the entire concept mere weeks before release.
This sounds fake as fuck. Weeks? Yeah alright man.
sounds like gnar with extra steps, i can see why they ditched it
This may be why her gameplay feels kind of uninspired then despite her good looking design. Still more interesting than most other new champions though.
PP 00w0p0
@@Carpatouille exactly; Zoe with Darius Q. Very uninspired.
keep in mind: shape-shifters basically get two skins. so they're never gonna make another.
or if they do its gonna have ridiculously overpriced skins. no more "bogo" deals.
Jayce?..
@@flyingwhale6432 well he doesn't shift "shapes" only "stance" so yes he can be an exception.
idk even know if he has different dance/taunt/etc
This!!! I'm sure this is a main reason - double the amount of effort/time means half the amount of money
They just made a kayn skin… that’s 3 skins in one
@@randomth1ngs68 i think the point of the video and my original comment is that riot is pretty much done with making MORE of these champs. the one's that still exist, especially the popular ones, will probably still get skins. its just not worth it to make anymore shapeshifters.
They should take some cues from smite with shape shifters. Smite has a good amount of them and have varying play styles and class types as opposed to league where they are all early game champs.
Ullr is pretty similar to Jayce, but I agree, something like Hel or Tyr would be awesome
They’re early game champs because they have access to double the abilities before lvl 6. Lvl 3 Shapeshifter vs lvl 3 regular champ is imbalanced af and there’s no way around it
@@ZEFFENWULF for me the balance comes from being able to choose your own counter active.
Tyr especially got hurt from anybody being able to get beads&aegis as they kill his red stance 1 instantly.
Well yea.... imagine a triple shape shifter like Merlin in LoL. It would be a disaster I think.
@@TheWeeklyweek i think he could work th same as smite having his ultimate be the changing one a
How about a video about champions with "false" ultimates? By that, I mean spammable Rs that have a lower impact on their own but have synergy with the rest of the kit. It makes their champions have less big flashy moments but allows them to distribute their power budget along longer periods of time. Some examples could be Karma, Leblanc, Quinn, Elise, and Kassadin.
Don't forget lux, that champ has a lower CD on her ult that on her shield xD
kog'maw, teemo, corki, and zoe too
and udyr? Does udyr fit in this?
@@Hifeco idk udyr ult doesn't have any extra impact than the other abilities. Kass R, Quinn R, Karma R are pretty damn important in their playstyles but udyr just has 4 equally impactful abilities.
Hey guys, anybody remember Corki ? o/
Is it just me or are most shapeshifting champs are highly contested in pro play like elise reksai nida and jayce but average in soloq. And why is that im guessing proplay is more earlygame focused so at lvl 3 your champ has 7 abilities while the enemy has only 3 abilities
Elise is definitely not average in soloq, at least in high elo she’s extremely contested.
@@neveahphillips5610 well the higher the elo the the more closer it is to pro play.
also forgot Gnar but that's probably because of a different reason such as being ranged while also being a melee bruiser with cc so he does not need much jungle attention.
@@williamsmith6364 its more so just that at least for the shapeshifting junglers, they need to get their team ahead. Rek elise and nida fall off really quickly if they can't gank and get fed asap, and high elo players know this so they always try to set up ganks and the like if they see one of these champs hovering their side of the map. Also rek and elise are really good at towerdiving, but low elo players a lot of the time don't realise that and get scared of the tower more than they should. Also the fact that if you are good with one of these champs, you will prob be high elo already, since they are fundamentally hard mechanically and macro wise due to needing to get fed really early on. And if you know how to do that you are prob already high elo
Reksai and Elise are pretty bad examples right now as they are nonexistent in competitive but decent to pretty strong in soloQ, and Nidalee is in my opinion just extremely hard to play, but not a competitive slave as azir is (lots of Nidalee mains in High Elo Soloqeue)
I think Shynava is a transformer not a shapeshifter. Like Aatrox, Nasus, Swain, Volibear, etc. Champions who can turn into something when press ultimate or fill passive bar or something, like Shyvana turn into drag, Naus bigger and Swain grow wings and glow red. When they transform, their role don't change just become better version of themselves.
Like they get extra stats, temporarily upgrade abilities or both.
Sorry for long passage and grammar😄
I loved stance switchers in SMITE and then I loved Jayce and Elise in League!
I think it is kind of a strech to classify Rek´Sai as a shapeshifter tho. Yes, she "Changes her form" and gains different abilities, but once you are in a fight you sorta have to unborrow since you can´t aa while borrowed. It´s not just that her main damage lies in unborrowed but rather that you can´t do any damage without unborrowing (except q). She seems more like a sub-Shapesifter IMO.
Same with Kled really. Only one different ability. Actually, Kled only has 3 abilities since W is a passive. He shouldn't be compared here. Lee Sin is more fitting since he has 6 abilities and an ult.
@@srm3k Lee Sin doesn't change forms at all. Also, dismounted Kled loses access to E and R so it's 3 abilities changed.
Rek'Sai has one damage form and one utility form, instead of two damage forms like the rest, making her more unique. Her two forms play vastly different, like the rest of the shifters. Sure, she only uses un-burrowed in fights, but it's her burrowed form that makes me love her so much. It is by far her best form, giving amazing free vision and up to 8 flashes on a 2 sec cd with all her tunnels, surpassing even Talon in potential map presence. Everyone can deal damage, but very few can match her target access, mobility and vision which makes her unique, not her boring linear damage, everyone can deal damage.
would have loved to see Rell as a true shapeshifter...
and as a madman, why not give her three forms with only 2 abilities each and 1 ult per form : mounted, fast, light support with small shields and speed buffs ; armored, slow, big self-shield, self regen and cc ; and empowering an ally were the shield is given to the ally, stat buffs based on her AP for the ally, short ranged high damage and healing for one ally
Imagine a support shapeshifter that can shift between enchanter and engage/tank.
But not with an ability or an Ultimate, but with a passive. The tank form is like an armor that you can equipt/wear *just in base* (kinda like Corkis package that you pick it on base) and that armor gives you aditional health, resistances and damage reduction that scale with level. The aditional health that the armor gives you would be like Skaarls health (a "second" bar) that makes you shift form when is over but with a little twist, when that second bar is over the armor explodes knocking up/stunning every enemy that is near the armor, after the armor explodes and you are near the armor your movement speed gets reduced for idk 3 seconds (this for not making this champ an OP one), your aditional resisistances and damage reduction is gone.
The tank kit focused on CC and tankyness but with an ability to send the support flying away (like Tristanas W) while leaving the armor behind and if you recast it you can explode the armor
The enchanter kit focused on shields, buffs and heals
A support like this would be interesting to see
You can even make it so the support needs to roam to collect armor pieces to create the armor, instead of just picking it from base
Interesting champion concept ngl
There is Rell, and.. Well, that was a good chance to make a support shapeshifter, but they only went half-way with that.
As a Poppy main, I’d like to see a video on are Yordles an abomination? Teemo, lulu, Kled, etc.
@@booradley6832 Yed
It would be cool to have a champion that in the beginning of the game, gets to choose from 1 of 5 consumables that then effects the direction their base scaling goes. The potions would be for 1. health 2. Resist 3.Move speed 4.Adaptive damage and 5. Ability haste. You only get to choose ONE, so this champ could technically go in any role depending on what potion they want to take. The champion would also change the moment they take the potion, matching in appearance to whichever he/she takes. A nightmare to balance no doubt but, would be so dope.
Love that you mentioned "Aphelios will be included in this video :D"
as an aphelios enjoyer this made me happy to see :)
I think if they ever make a true shapeshifter again, then it will be more like Gnar or Kled than Jayce or Nidalee in that they have very limited control over when they transform. Actually now that I think about it, I would bet that when Shyvana gets a VGU she'll get the shapeshifter treatment, rather than just stronger abilities.
I really do hope they come back, i'm a Guild Wars 2 player and the entire game is designed for you to switch betwen your main and secondary weapons. It's just so much fun. I wish we had a champion that in one form is a control mage and a phisical melee assassin on the other.
You should try mobile legends, Selena it's exactly that
She has a very long range stun and traps in the mage form, a double dash and an empowered basic attack in the melee assassin
How would you build a character like that though? Why make them physical in one form?
Meanwhile in smite:
*Tiamat has 11 abilities*
Tiamat is tricky to use, granted. Takes a lot of work to master her.
And she’s one of the best gods in the game.
*laughs in DOTA's Invoker*
Nah man, it's because in order to make shapeshifters they need to make two skins for every skin they make and that's just not in the budget
That's true, when they put zero effort in MF's Gun Goddess Ultimate Skin, the most expensive skins of the bunch, what makes people think they'll put effort in champs that are 2 in 1. Kayn is especially a testimony to this idea because despite how popular he is, he's barely received any skins at all.
@@swordcavalry3879kayn even worse he needs 3 skins for 1
They cant complain about shifters are hard to desing when aphelios exists
11:43 I would definitely disagree with that, since the abilities that make or break a champion are mostly not the ultimate. Maybe if you only look at a single usage of every ability but that should not be how you have to look at a power budget.
I hate premiers because now I have to wait :(
@@calmgentleman Normally we'd wait without knowing... but now the anticipation(if ur that excited) will make the wait longer :D
I would love to see a support shape shifter as I personally love the mechanic. I think it would be really cool if they implemented the "ranged Udyr" idea they had, and made a Shaman that shapeshifted between a ranged enchanter built around 3 deployable totems with different simple area effects and interactions, and a melee engage form where he/she "becomes the totem", ie they provide similar buffs but centered around themselves, encouraging allies to get in there with them.
I can imagine:
P: Can switch between stances without cost, on a 10-5s cooldown. In ranged form abilities place a totem on the ground with 2-6 hits (like a ward or yorick wall). Switching to melee form will consume the two most recent active totems and give the champion altered effects. Melee form has bonus health, armor and AD. Ranged form has bonus ms, mana regen,
Q: A font of life style mark on enemies in the area, with a 20% slow on first attack. Consuming the mark gives a 5-10s burst of adaptive force. Melee form: the shapeshifter's attack becomes a small dash (Illaoi W) and first attack stuns for 0.5 s instead
W: Melee form a large zone that redirects damage from allies to the champion as damage over time, and their damage back to you as healing. Switch to ranged cleanses remaining DoT.
E: Grant true sight in an area (finally an Akali counter), and when the champion and an ally is in range, drain the champions mana and give to allies (Soraka's old E). Melee form: Champion and allies gain bonus ms and become ghosted.
R: switch shape
I think there are a lot of cool directions the creative work could take, but the kit for sure would need some work, these were just some thoughts.
12:24 are u sure about that? I'm pretty sure champs nowadays already conflict with how League of Legends was designed from the start with 1 passive, 3 basic abilities and 1 ultimate. They have multiple passives in their passive, more than one basic ability in a single basic ability, passives in their basic abilities/ ultimate, their basic abilities having as much impact as an ultimate, their ultimate basically being a basic ability, etc, etc.
Isn't Gnar the only exception to the rule that all shapeshifters are Early-Mid champs? Because I've always felt he does better as the game goes on (Mid-Late game).
It’s because all the nerfs from pro early he was a Lane bully and still is
@@blastedsnake Well, he can be one on certain matchups... as long as they don't have some sort of dash (like Irelia) or a skill that can outrange him and has auto-aim (like Malph's Q).
I really like the forced change shapeshifters. I play a lot of Kled and knowing when you’re gonna lose Skarrl or get him back is where you get to flex on your opponets. Same with playing around Gnar’s transformation. Seeing how much rage has been built and knowing when to go in or back off is a depth i like. It shows the champion and game mastery.
Rell had a huge shapeshifter potential, like he could became an charging knight, them shapeshift and became something like an bastion, but riot is to lazy to do something good.
He?
@@charmelos1431 she** new keyboard, some letters are still hard
So because Rell isn't a shapeshifter her kit is suddenly lazy 🤡
@@ChorusSquid her kit is great but it’s underwhelming how useless you are before lvl 6 and some cdr lol
As a fan of theorycrafting myself, I once made a Quinn rework where she became a shapeshifter, which I know, she used to be, but I went on a direction more similar to Rek'sai, albeit it still being her ultimate. She gets her ultimate from level 1 and its form gets new abilities. Her bird form's W is her current human form's W, her new human form's W is, roughly speaking, an instant consume of all units marked with her passive for some more wave clear. In addition, her bird form's Q is a quick burst of movement speed and her bird form's E is similar to ASol's or Kayn's E allowing her to cross over terrain for a short duration.
That said, I kept her bird form abilities extremmely simple not to make her kit too overloaded. Q = movement speed, W = vision, E = ignore terrain while her human form's new W gives her quicker waveclear.
Vars: "Today we'll be talking about Shapeshifters." (Doesn't mention Neeko)
Neeko: "And Neeko take that personally."
But he refers shape-shifter by skill changing and yes, Neeko is a default shapeshifter
5:46 "defense converting to offense is close to impossible"
k'sante: hold my beer
4:29 'designing and maintaining a shapeshifter is no easy task'
In contrast of Irelia, Akali, Yone, Zoe, Akshan, AS, Azir, Ryze, Fiddlesticks, Urgot, Morkdekaiser, which were/are easy to balance
Zoe and Fiddle? Their design is good (fiddle one is probably perfect) they just touch some numbers when they are overpowered or underpowered and that's all
@@MoonLiight28 Well, Battle Penguin said "were/are" Zoe probably goes into the 'were' category.
Riot shapeshifted them into a dead archetype and frankly I'm glad we don't have anymore Jayces
having jayce, nidalee and elise in the meta is quite nice to watch though. Much better than crazy resets that every champ get these days
@@calmgentleman play against a jayce? Id get poked under tower all game.
@@calmgentleman finally another cultured being. From my point of view, Jayce is much harder and therefore harder to lane against, but you cant blame him cuz he actually use skill to play. Unlike Akali and yone who can mash their keyboards and you just dieeeee
@@calmgentleman what elo are you playing at to want to play vs jayce over darius?
@@calmgentleman the only champions that i think is broken as a top laner is Gwen, Irelia, Camille and sett atm.
Haven't watched a video from your for years and still recognized your voice immediately! Great video
Knowing how they operate these days it's because they don't want to put extra effort on making skins for them :/
If the extra skins would be worth the effort, then they would do it. The League community simply told Riot "We're not interested in supporting these kinda champions" when they did not play them or bought their skins.
jayce doesn't have this problem, they just change his weapon and animations kinda like jinx, but she doesn't get extra habilities when she changes weapons, they thought about doing that with jinx
All champs are designed to have flashy esports highlight reel ultimates now.
You don't need to have the ability that shape shifts the champion on the R (Kayn,Gnar,Rek'Sai)
Jayce is pretty fun to watch in pro play
Didn't expect to find high Quality Competitive Pokémon content on this video. What a Nice surprise
Can you count Sion as a shapeshifter? Primarily a tank cc-beast, but once he's killed his transformation triggers, and he turns into an all-in damage dealer for a few seconds.
And some people focus specifically on the second form by building him as a glass-cannon assassin to capitalize on his second form's damage output.
short answer..no.
@@justanothergamer3675 and the long answer?
"The concept of turning offence to defense is impossible to pull off" is false. Sylas ult turns ult that is ad to ap, hence it is possible to turn offensive stats to defensive and vise versa but its just how much is the question.
That's not offense to defense. That's offense to offense. It would be if Physical Attack became Special Attack. It's much harder to turn AD scaling into %armor for instance.
@@VarsVerum yes it is offense to offense but in coding its just changing sylas ult code from ap to a desired stat for a certain champ. Ex turning 100% of human ap nidalee to 75%ap and 25%hp or 75%ap, 10%hp and 15%ms or cd.
I dont remember how nidalee r works entirely but i am just using her as comparison.
I used to be a gnar one trick, when I first got the game I scrolled through the champ list looking for the cutest champ to play and I chose gnar, so I began one tricking him, I have 153k on him now but I rarely touch him, I have now shifted over to jayce after accidentally locking him in a like 6 months ago when he was on rotation and falling in love with him (very hyped he was arcane he’s so hot, but people really suck ass at him) and I find that yes, a lot of people don’t know how to play against jayce, I personally enjoy him in the mid lane, and I roam a lot because a lot of mid lane match ups are hard, like akali, except I think akali is one of the most busted champs I’ve ever seen. Although he doesn’t fall of too hard late game since he can poke from so far away, I find him really fun and I hope riot doenst try to change him, because in his current state, he isn’t good in the meta. Gnar on the other hand is a beast tho, his early and late game are good. That’s my spiel that has no purpose other than to say I love Gnar and Jayce (he’s so hot)
6:54 "one form being artillery, and one form being a diver" that is quite literally what jayce is -- insanely high damage on long range poke, while being able to dive your backline when 1 or 2 targets are below 60% hp
damn bro, i’ve been watching you since the realm videos, and watching u grow, all i have to say is wow! You deserve all the credit you get because goddamn these videos are so well edited
I have always loved shapeshifters. A champ that I think would be really cool to see would be an enchanter shapeshifter. I really like darkin so I’d like to see another one and make it freely change between human and darkin stance (unlike kayn), where the human drains hp to shield and protect while the darkin more relies on damage to regain the lost health. I think it would also just be really cool to have a darkin dynamic that also cooperates with their host
yuumi but darkin?
6:29 this aged like fine wine with k'sante
The problem with Joyce is that a skilled player can land both empowered autos and basically have void staff and grudge applied to the enemy for a second which makes his next attack just hurt unless you have like 5k hp, the best option might be to change his passive from magic armor and armor shred to like stun, lowers the skill floor provides a still good passive and decreases his burst output but making his ability to catch or escape you higher
As far as I'm aware, when Anything Goes became a thing with the advent of Mega Rayquaza, Ubers was granted the status of being an actual tier (since that meant it had a ban list), although I wouldn't be surprised if people treated it as an actual tier (albeit unofficial) beforehand (for example, DPP Ubers has had Arceus legal and banned throughout the years). I might be mistaken, though, I'm not fully knowledgeable about the history of its status as a tier (or of Arceus' legality in DPP Ubers, for that matter), I haven't been an avid Ubers player myself.
rewatching old vids, but to think K'sante would be a headache, I mean shapeshifter in 2023
I miss Quinn & Valor.
Being able to buy Hurricane & Hydra back when they were melee/ranged locked was super fun.
I just realized because of this vid, that I kinda wish swain had an empowered ability during ult. It's literally called demon form. Even if it's just like a simple passive cd reduction so u can pull more often
That gameplay Sound 12:00 looks so good without the hud and health bars!
Wow i like that you included a pokemon example.Brings back memories :)
In a Moba called Heroes of the Storm there are only 2 shape shifters that you can play, Greymane and Deathwing, I don't remember how greymane is doing but I can say that his gameplay is similar to Nidalee, Deathwing on the other hand I know what is going on with him now.
Simply put he has a melee and ranged form, his trait was that his allies cannot heal him but he has 4 plates that give him passive armor against all damage and he can lose up to 3 plates with each being assigned to a specific 1/4th of his health and lastly he is permanently unstoppable. on release it was all about the melee form to the point that most players would never go into ranged form, you could see that Blizz tried to make both viable by making it that the melee has more damage and healing but lacks CC while the ranged has less damage and healing but is safer (ofc since it's ranged) to heal back up but by also being the form with the most CC, however that didn't matter as Deathwing was so tanky and melee form did so much damage and healing that you could just go in and 1v5 the whole enemy team and the only thing stopping you from doing so was if the enemy had percentage health damage, so Blizz nerfed his melee form and capability as a tank to the point that now in the recent games that I have been into I almost never leave the ranged form for the melee as in most situations it's just suicide especially if the enemy team have characters with percentage health damage
You could balance items for offense/defense by giving champ a passive that partially converts the bonus stats from items to another type (armor/attack, magic resist/AP) based on their current form. That way they can itomize based more on the Passives/Actives of the items, rather than their stats
It'd be interesting to have the ranged from be a Health caster, and the melee form have sustain abilities
Though, Aegislash was banished to Ubers because of his mix sweeping ability, I.E. you'd take an HP nature that sacks speed, go Shadow Ball/Shadow Sneak/Sacred Sword, Rock Slide or Iron Head/King's Shield. Max out Sp. Atk and Atk, swap in, win game. Though the reason he's still their is because its easy to get free stat boosts, like Sword Dance, or you can run a defensive stall-esq set and ware down any bulky pokemon or swap into sword stance and nuke a squishy pokemon. The issue with it wasn't because it could wall or pump out serious damage on a whim, but because it had too much coverage. Even as a wall, he can check both sp. attacker and regular attackers because if you build him sp. defence, and take kings shield, he's flexible enough to check to either attackers because King Shield would lower attack by two stages if he blocks an attack with it. Also his stats are nutters with 520 total stats, with atk/sp. atk, being able to be swapped by 100. So he'd have access to 320 in total stats plus 200 that can be swapped.
Though a vastly different game, Dota;s Lone Druid I think you would find interesting Mr Vars.
LD himself is a shapeshifted between a ranged and melee form once level 6 but also has a second gimmick in his kit that he is more well known for. His Q summons a bear thats a summon with a hefty cooldown but is summoned indefinitely or until it or LD dies. The Bear produces a dual playstyle where the bear has its own items so when reaching ultra late game, an LD can have 6 items both on the Hero and the Bear. A really good and efficient LD is a marvel to watch but his balance has not been the nightmare that some of League and Dota's similar characters faced. Also there has been a highly diverse build paths over the years, many opting for a bear focused build making the bear become a hypercarry and the Hero to support it with buffs and auras, but there have been times when people build the Hero as an attack speed / on hit carry and using the bear to tank and peel.
Love your content, hope you could look into some design choices made in other similar games without the classic league player mentality of "LOL BETTER DOTA".
All the best Sir x
A big part of the problem is League's all-in character design.
In DotA 2, there's Troll Warlord who can swap between Melee and Ranged stances, with only one ability changing between the two. Whirling Axes are a cone that slow in Ranged, while Melee is an area around Troll that give them a chance to miss. What Berserker's Rage (his shapeshift ability) does is it grants him a ton of Range in one form, while the Melee form gets bonus armor, bonus attack speed (kinda), Movespeed, and a chance to root the target on hit.
League could easily make a Shapeshifter who can, at will, trade Range for bonus Armor and some Lethality, allowing them to be more of a bruiser or an ADC while having to build around swapping forms. Kinda like Jinx, except it's not AoE or increased fire rate.
Even Lone Druid, who goes from a Druid to a Bear, still has most of the same abilities
Hwei chillin with "3 forms" and 10 abilities
Just to through out an idea, what if there was a stat convertion like in pyke case with life to damage? But taking it to another level
Vlad hp to ap and ap to hp
Kayn: "you guys can transform many times in a game?"
They tend to fall off because they don’t have an actual ultimate that helps them get ahead. Look at Jayce for example. He has a pretty lackluster late game and sucks in team fights because while he has 6 abilities, that’s about it. No game changing, AOE one shot ultimate or a utility ult.
They tend to fall of cuz they have the strongest lvl3 powerspike in the game, and if they're given good scaling as well they will be the strongest class in the game (except for gnar who can't chose his form and who is rubbish in teamfights if he is not mega).
Half-expected to see Kayn here, but when you stated the reasons on why he is not, its understandable.
What if you made a shapeshifter that actually do swap stats around. Like let's say your main form is a ranged champion but then when you transform your amount of AD turns into an amount of bonus health. Then your attack speed and crit could turn into armor/mr or something. You'd obviously need to work out the percentages for all these swaps but I feel like that'd be a cool idea. That way you don't need to change items.
because either it would be busted only 1 form is relevent or the characters trash nearly impossible to balance
@@justanothercommenterwithan9089 Yea it would be hard for sure but they've done crazier things right? xD I mean Aphelios is somehow in the game
Riot did say that originally Aphelios was intended to be a mage, and I really really want an actual wizard with a spellbook who changes out which abilities he has without affecting his playstyle
for example maybe his q is a blast spell, and his w is a wall spell, and his E cycles between which element of spell he is using
fire maybe does some extra burn damage, ice maybe causes a slow, lightning maybe reduces auto attack speed or lowers magic resist or something, the walls might be sort of like passable wall but it blocks vision, so you can walk through it but you can't see through it, or idk, something, and the wall should persist for a few seconds, damaging everyone who lingers inside of it while temporarily slowing anyone who trys to move directly through it until they get through
this way the wall is a get off me tool and zone control, and the blast is the primary source of damage, and then the ultimate is some sort of cover up for the weaknesses of the champion, maybe it's an empowers the next w or q that you cast, the ability that makes the wall solid, and larger, and it massively increases the aoe of the q
or maybe it's just a really big area cone, following the same rules as the qw, and maybe it's lingering effect is simply more powerful or has a longer duration
1. Hard to manage/balance early games (looking at you Jayce)
2. Sylas and Viego "interactions"
3. Don't Gnar and Kled count in this category?
Gnar is 7 years old at that point and kled 5
I wouldn't say Gnar or Kled count as the transformation is dependent on other things and you can't decide when you transform, although I'm not sure about Evelynn either. I suppose you could put them in tho
Actually ubers was solidified as an official competitive format when Anything Goes was made during gen 6, which is now the ubers banlist. However pokemon can not rise to ubers based on popularity and must explicitly be too strong for OU. But it is a format which is played in tournaments while AG is a true banlist without real tournament play.
What are you talking about Neeko just released...3...years...ago...
LOL neeko doesn’t have another form with more abilities though???
@@laughtrax05 r/wooosh
@@VarsVerum You cannot tell if it’s a joke with league players, Vars
@@laughtrax05 nor can league players tell if it's a joke
@@fashionsuckman4652 yeah
I know that we are talking about Riot's champion design team, but I'd really wish to see the equivalent of an Aegislash champion, someone who could build AD who loses a chunk of the AD for resistances in defense stance but also build tank and lose a part of the resitances for damage in attack stance.
It'd be such an interesting playstyle, but it could also lead to a second champ with a sword and shield.
hey! i actually made a similar champ that focuses on defense and attack in lthe span of like 20 mins
you should be able to find it by ctrl + F my name
it's AP not AD but i would love some commentary and ESPECIALLY critiques on it :)
"Aphelios always plays as a back line adc, doesn't go to melee" *laughs in crescendum severum combo*
Also Gnar is a pretty cool shapeshifter as he does almost what you said they don't, changing stats to change a playstyle. Gets e attack speed and movement speed in mini and gets hp ad and defense INSTEAD of it in mega.
Unpopular opinion but mini Gnar is very underrated. His Q + W stacks can deal a ton of dmg and with the slow + speed + jump you can kite extremely well, he's almost like an adc just a bit less dmg but bit tankier. I've gotten so many kills with him when people thought "Oh his mega is over I'll go in and kill him now" and underestimate it, then I kite them to death lmao
Yes he does play as back line adc. He ofc is strong in melee range with that combo or sometimes crescendum alone but he plays as a someone who stands his ground against engage champions well and usually still kites backward like any typical adc (unless his opponents undersitemated him which means he then orb walks forward and punishes them) but he neither rushes like a moron heads up to the battle just because he has a combo neither he can since he need a set up for that from Gravitum or Calibrum. Therefore nobody picks Aphelios with aggressive diving team comps since Kaisa and Samira are the aggressive adcs that go in and Ezrael and Tristana are the flexible ones that perform better in skirmishes due to their versatile mobility that allow them to play both aggressively and manevroue back to safety in a messy skirmishes in situations where any other adc (Aphelios included) cause of one misstep.
@@lunacy5510 Yeah lmao I was just making a joke, ur right tho
About the Pokemon tiers there's technically another tier that's called "Anything Goes" which consists only of Mega-Rayquaza. It's so powerful that it's even banned from Uber. Or at least that was true before Sword and Shield, I'm not too up to date in that regard
As one of the 3 people in the world who play Shyvana I would argue that she is a shapeshifter. Your human form only exist to build fury for dragon form. Dragon form is the only one you fight with past 6. If you’re going AP you sit in the back line and nuke people and if you’re going bruiser it’s more similar to human form. (But most people go AP)
What if a future shapeshifter was, say, a damage dealer/tank who's passive converts bonus defenses into bonus attack when in their damage form and bonus attack into defenses in their tank form, translating the effects of some of their items to fit their form?
My favorite shapeshifter is "the Ripper" from Cod Ghost. Super good smg and an ok long range AR.
however giving shapeshifters two item inventories would balance out because it also would DOUBLE the amount of gold for them. This would mean shape shifters would priorities one form over the other in terms of building items before moving to the second one. With how short League games are, a Shapeshifter would just allow the player to tailor their play and build to their team. Almost like how Kayne can tailor to being an off tank with Red giving CC for his team if they lack it, or going Blue to murder the other teams ADC and Mages if your team already has good CC/engage.
I really like Rek'Sai, because she does have an ultimate but can still change form whenever she wants. I don't think that her burrowed form is weaker than the un-burrowed, because if used correctly it is basically 8 flashes on a 2 second cooldown, hard CC and free long range "vision" with Q and Tremor Sense.
Sure, her playstyle is pretty linear as a diver/assassin, but the real skill expression isn't how good you can deal dmg with un-burrowed form, but rather how good you can use her amazing utility in her burrowed form. All the other shapeshifters have a more "damage"-focused approach in both of their forms, or at least "neutral game" functions in the ranged/secondary one. In Rek'Sai's case her burrowed form is almost purely utility (Prey Seeker is mainly a vision tool), which makes her stand out from the rest.
I wonder if they made a shifter that had his transformation move oh his e and gave them a temporary steroid like udyr instead of ult /what if it was only temporary
Shyvana is temporary lol
I like shape shifters they are pretty fair, but you need to know their kit like hell to play them & also face them.
I think we can still have shapeshifters. Melee to mele or range to range. on a rek'sai model.
One form sustain / 1 DPS ( that's what i hoped for Aatrox rework)
One AoE, one Mono target. ( jinx rocket are a good one, but it could work on sivir too & define her kit betwenn battle mistres & mercenary leader utility)
Caster/AA
Spirit/ Material form. ( that one is more a theme to explore)
Mana/ Rage
Sustain/CC ( for a tank) that could offer obvious windows of opportunity.
I think the thing that redeems Gnar is that you have to manage your rage and make sure you don't screw up your engage. As soon as he goes back to mini form, he's super weak and as long as he doesn't have his E, it's pretty easy to capitalize on his weakness. His engage is also pretty predictable once you realize what he can and can't do. It's similar to nidalee's combo, but you aren't dead as soon as you get hit by one ability. I do see how he can be pretty annoying though, especially when the gnar knows what he's doing.
I highly doubt you fully own the BGM played in the entire video, so could you put the songs in the description at least in future videos?
Also what's the BGM in this vid?
I think a short range mage who turns into a ap bruiser when he pops his ult (like for 10 secs) would be a nice twist on the idea
500+ comments Im sure someone said this already
4:55 and before
Riot actually created a new Shapeshifter, but it was cut off in the development leaving us the lovely dreamguard deer :3
Her initial concept revolved around good dreams and nightmares
As much as I like Lillia as a champion, the idea also sounds awesome, but if I remember correctly it wasn't really in the kit when to shift shape and more like bound on ingame time which isn't healthy in the first place
You might be right with stating it's too complicated to develop new shapeshifter, but let's be honest, that won't stop riot from doing it O.o
Rell could have had more of an opportunity to have a proper mounted/ dismounted form would have maybe made her presence in support role more unique.
I love all the pokemon/smogon references. Didn’t know smogon was somewhat popular with other league fans
Pre - k sante video, aegislash +
Deoxys + Groudon combined = rito's prodigy new puppy
They should rework A Soul to switch between close and far orbits, changing his abilities depending on the form. Like in small form his q swaps the rotation direction, his w passively charges a storm, and can be activated to release a slowing blast around him. His e lets him fly to a location rapidly charging his storm and allowing it to get bigger than the normal cap, but it will rapidly decrease in size as soon as he stops dashing. Then his ult swaps orbits and his q makes them orbit faster, his w releases the storm in target direction as an aoe stun, and his e releases the storm like his ult. Swapping during his dash will end the dash and release the storm which continues moving and starts shrinking until it’s gone, stunning based on size (large orbit w). Obviously the numbers would be reduced but he would have more combos than just spacing and timing, and his kit wouldn’t feel so lackluster.
10:15
Severum/Crescendum is totally a monster what do you mean?
In all seriousness, good vid.
Gnar isn't necessarily build around the mega form. Usually the mega form only provides a short team fight engage, but his mini form can run down entire teams, when played correctly. He combines a tanky adc with a tank diver, if you build too much on one of them he gets useless pretty fast. So I would disagree that the mega form is 'stronger'.
Now i really want riot to release another one. Especially considering i play every shapeshifter apart from nidalee
DID ENJOY, I love azir so much I wish he was actually meta. He’s really not with all the mid laner there are that counter him.
I was quite happy seeing my queen reksai get a video :D
something you didn't mention but is a very good example: Gnar on release was an absolute nightmare from what I remember. He dominated top lane and there was very little you could do to stop him from taking over the game, simply because he did too much.