I am not a singer and I don't play any instruments but I love Bach. This has been a real educational video for me. I never knew the variations and the technicality of baroque chorale music. Thank you, NBS!
Bach's contemporary J.A. Scheibe famously criticized Bach's style of composition for forcing singers to sing keyboard-like phrases and he actually had a point. Very hard to make it work, but when it works, it is absolutely incredible.
Amazing episode, showing what we sort of know - limited vibrato, clear phrasing etc. - but in a way that is so demonstrative and clear. Really helpful and a little thought provoking. I like how everybody stresses that singing Bach is difficult because he didn't care much about trying to write vocally. And how one of the singers thanks Bach for making singing other composers' music even easier after mastering his music.
Thank you..I am a beginner in a Choir with Saint John passion. And I told my teacher (also the conductor) that I can't breathe...I now know that it is because of Bach himself!
I'm sure Bach understood the difference between instruments and singers, I've read that he sang often himself. He just had high expectations, as any good teacher has
The general style of vocal composition changed throughout Bach's career. Vocal composition became increasingly instrumental. In his "Short But Most Necessary Draft for a Well-Appointed Church Music" to the Leipzig town council in 1730, Bach observed that ".. the state of music is quite different from what is was, since our artistry has increased very much, and the taste has changed astonishingly, and accordingly the former style of music no longer seems to please our ears ..."
This demonstration is extremely interesting, the voices are beautiful, the choir is excellent and very well known, and it must be a dream to sing Bach with Bart as conductor - I used to sing Bach in choirs and as a soloist, and I do agree too much with many of the comments, specially the ones mentioning that Bach completely forgot that a singer must breath form time to time 🤑🤑 The funny thing is that Bach did something equivalent with the lute music: he wrote a series of partitas for the lute, which are gorgeous but almost impossible to play, because JSB Composed them of a weird keyboard instrument called Lautenwerk, i.e. using his 10 fingers and completely forgotting that we, lutenists, play with only 4 fingers !!! Thank You again
"You need a mountain bike, not a big car." Perfect. This is also another reason why opera companies should never perform "staged" adaptations of Bach (IMO). Bach is not Handel.
I do so agreee!!!! It is not opera; Händel (IMO) composed operas even in his sacred music! Anyway, if I ever visit the Netherlands, this society is one of the reasons that I would go! Thank you very very much!
Very true...yet, there is much to be said for a Handel phrase, as well. So many volunteer choirs feel good just to sing the notes correctly. That is not Handel.
@@sarahhearn-vonfoerster7401 not everyone can be world class, music is supposed to be fun for the community. leave professional work to professionals, let communities enjoy activities.
🎼🎶 👋 Здравствуйте 🙂 Как это чудесно, увидеть репетиционные моменты, это очень правильно. Зрители должны понимать насколько непросто сделать номер, подготовить концерт.Ваш благородный труд приносит радость людям.Спасибо вам большое 💐
Of course, I am addicted to NBS videos. This video helped explain why, and how much work goes into the excellence that pervades every video produced by NBS. Thank you, all.
Bach is exceptionally challenging to vocalists because of the instrumental nature of the lines. I remember singing my first motet in my early 20s. I opened the choral score and immediately went to the conductor confused. I thought it was for organ..."know it's for you" - I just had a shocked look on my face; 16th notes going on and on for measures...0_o!
writing for the voice like an instrument is a criticism/attribute that you hear often also referred to Vivaldi -coincidentally (or maybe not) greatly admired by Bach, whereas Handel for example was a master at that. (that's not just for the voice by the way, Bach is very difficult to play with the flute for the same reason)
Very informative and illuminating to me as Herr Bach was certainly an instrumentalist so the vocals are quite challenging in getting the expression just right. This choir is certainly one of the best interpreting Bach!
Viewing this video I understand the common language of Netherlands Bach Society is English, neither Dutch nor German. Anyway, they are all excellent and devoted singers. The conductor is also excellent and fervent. Thanks for the nice upload!
If the Netherlands Bach Society is going to draw from the best singers and instrumentalists in this music from throughout Europe (and, sometimes, other continents), English is most likely to be the language everyone has in common. (Also, the Dutch get years and years of English in school.) The singers in Vox Luminis told me that they rehearse in English as well.
Thanks to a fantastic music theory teacher in my freshman year of high school (way back in 1991), having the class listen to and vigorously analyze Bach's music, Bach has been my musical mainstay for the last 33 years. Thanks Mr. Diggs! NBS really does a service to further enlighten lovers of Bach by taking us "behind the scenes" with these videos. It would be enough to simply enjoy their performances. To add this element where we get commentary from the conductor and various performers is such a treat. Hoping for more videos like this.🎶
Thank you so much for this beautiful explaination. The work you NBS are doing is really precious for average people like me, who love music, but don't know the technicalities. Thank you once again
What an excellent and precise explanation of the phrasing and articulation goals of singing (and playing) Bach. I’ve shared your link with my choir, just preparing for perform the Johannes-Passion with period instruments, the first such performance in the state of Colorado. Hartelijk bedank en de beste wensen aan de NBS.
Amazing! Our choir also practice and perform Bach Choral Music... it is very difficult... But we think Bach Music is incredible, it is music of all music... Incomparable music.. We love it so much, and we wil commit to practice and perfome it, event though not easy
Very pedagogical. The Bach motets are indeed for the choral singers the equivalent of 8000's for mountaineers. Thanks NBS for all the wonderful videos you offer us !
This is fascinating. I don't think I've ever sung Bach chorally, other than simple chorales. It gives me a new appreciation of what it takes to sing his work.
Astounding amount of dedication to convey this amazing music, thank you very much! You should get way more recognition, but alas... Quick question, what is that gorgeous music at 1:50?
What they say about colaratura is helpful for any interpreters of Bach, not just singers. Maybe also especially for keyboard instrumentalists who have to get clear understanding about how all these voices should be played, so that the relations between the voices become audible for someone who has not studied the score but who only listens to the music. I think that there is always some kind of danger in understanding anything well, especially after studying it, which lies in assuming that others, who might not have studied the subject or given the subject any kind of thought, will also understand what oneself has come to understand only through careful study. This is true for theoretical subjects like mathematics or philosophy, but even more so for music, which should primarily not be understood theoretically but rather ... musically.
No, we only recorded during a rehearsal of the ensemble. There has been an earlier All of Bach-recording of this motet, BWV 230: www.bachvereniging.nl/en/bwv/bwv-230
I hardly believe that Bach was ignorant of the often enormous challenges which his works might have given to vocalists. I often think he deliberately disregarded "improving" his compositions for ease specifically in order to give his vocalists a major challenge. It's often exhilarating to witness vocalists reaching the end of a phrase when those singers may very well be on their last breath, but they still make the performance wonderful without them appearing exhausted.
It is true that Bach demands the utmost from the singers, but not the impossible! Bach was married to a professional singer, she will have told him what is feasible and what is not.
And if you listen to the solo cantatas he wrote specifically for her (for example, Jauchzet Gott in allen Landen, O holder Tag), you can tell that Anna Magdalena was very, very skilled.
@@mwnyc3976Yes, she was a skilled singer, but are you sure that the soprano or alto solo parts of the church cantatas were written for her ? If I learned that correctly, in Bach's time women weren't allowed to sing in church. When she left Köthen, Anna Magdalena lost her job and was no longer in the service of a princely or municipal orchestra. But she probably sang in the Cafe' Zimmermann in Leipzig from time to time when she performed there with her husband and sons.
@@wolsch3435 Certainly, women weren't supposed to sing in church cantatas in Leipzig. "O holder Tag", like "Weichet nur," is a wedding cantata -- meaning for the reception, not the ceremony. It had always been assumed that Bach had some spectacularly gifted teenage soprano to sing "Jauchzet Gott," but some years ago a scholar found a receipt of payment to Anna Magdalena for singing it. (I can't remember what the occasion was.)
@@mwnyc3976 Thank you for this information. Since coming across the magnicent Jauchzet Gott a few years ago I have always thought he must have written it for Anna Magdalena to sing. It's not written for a specific Sunday - he specifically says it can be sung at any time!
@@stephenlee1756 And if you compare "Jauchzet Gott" to the soprano arias for church -- say, "Blute nur" and "Ich will dir mein Herze schenken" from the St. Matthew Passion -- you can see a big difference in the degree of vocal difficulty. I think that's the difference between a well-trained teenage boy and a virtuosic professional female soprano.
I hope that this is not inappropriate - I want to share that I always fall in love with the musicians of the Netherlands Bach Society. Clearly, they are great teamplayers, but, sadly, it is not too uncommon that musical virtuosity and skill are indirectly proportional to virtue and humbleness, which form the basis for achieving a common goal. Seemingly not so with these lovable and beautiful people. Also, caring deeply for Bach's music and message adds 15 points of attractiveness on a scale of ten. Additionally, being musically gifted adds another 2 points. This is objective science btw. It is psychologically impossible to see them sing and play in concert, realize how much they live through the music, and not wish them all the best for their lifes and their close ones.
The singer who said, "Of course at times we have thought about how the 18th-century or 17th-century singers must have sounded," seems not to know what century Bach composed in.
@@herrickinman9303 So most accurate is to say at the beginning of the 18th-century, since no vocal music being relevant to the topic of the video was produced by Bach in the 17th century. Got it.
Ah, would that I had the kind of vocal control these singers speak of. I understand exactly what they're talking about, but the ability just isn't there anymore. I guess I'm just getting a bit old.
2:20 demo of three articulations: legato, intermediate (portato), staccato
The lack of breathing opportunity is true not only for singers, but for wind players. As both a singer and a flute player, I can attest to this.
Flute Partita comes to mind.
I am not a singer and I don't play any instruments but I love Bach. This has been a real educational video for me. I never knew the variations and the technicality of baroque chorale music. Thank you, NBS!
Bach's contemporary J.A. Scheibe famously criticized Bach's style of composition for forcing singers to sing keyboard-like phrases and he actually had a point. Very hard to make it work, but when it works, it is absolutely incredible.
organ like
That's not what was Scheibe was referring to.
Superb. Every Bach choir, around the world, should watch this and learn from the masters! Bravi to all.
Amazing episode, showing what we sort of know - limited vibrato, clear phrasing etc. - but in a way that is so demonstrative and clear. Really helpful and a little thought provoking. I like how everybody stresses that singing Bach is difficult because he didn't care much about trying to write vocally. And how one of the singers thanks Bach for making singing other composers' music even easier after mastering his music.
Thank you..I am a beginner in a Choir with Saint John passion. And I told my teacher (also the conductor) that I can't breathe...I now know that it is because of Bach himself!
I'm sure Bach understood the difference between instruments and singers, I've read that he sang often himself. He just had high expectations, as any good teacher has
and master of organ -- where there is singing instrument
The general style of vocal composition changed throughout Bach's career. Vocal composition became increasingly instrumental. In his "Short But Most Necessary Draft for a Well-Appointed Church Music" to the Leipzig town council in 1730, Bach observed that ".. the state of music is quite different from what is was, since our artistry has increased very much, and the taste has changed astonishingly, and accordingly the former style of music no longer seems to please our ears ..."
As a "non-singer" who has wondered about things like this for a long time: Thank you so much!
Thank you for reminding me how beautiful are people who perform such a music!
I simply adore these people - and Bach!
Thank you, singers! NBS stands out from all other Bach interpretations , in a large part because of the vocals. 🥰
The song at 3:29 that was angelic. I wanna listen to the whole song.
ruclips.net/video/hyVLhEsH_q8/видео.html
This demonstration is extremely interesting, the voices are beautiful, the choir is excellent and very well known, and it must be a dream to sing Bach with Bart as conductor - I used to sing Bach in choirs and as a soloist, and I do agree too much with many of the comments, specially the ones mentioning that Bach completely forgot that a singer must breath form time to time 🤑🤑 The funny thing is that Bach did something equivalent with the lute music: he wrote a series of partitas for the lute, which are gorgeous but almost impossible to play, because JSB Composed them of a weird keyboard instrument called Lautenwerk, i.e. using his 10 fingers and completely forgotting that we, lutenists, play with only 4 fingers !!! Thank You again
I love the soprano‘s timbre!!
"You need a mountain bike, not a big car." Perfect. This is also another reason why opera companies should never perform "staged" adaptations of Bach (IMO). Bach is not Handel.
I do so agreee!!!! It is not opera; Händel (IMO) composed operas even in his sacred music! Anyway, if I ever visit the Netherlands, this society is one of the reasons that I would go! Thank you very very much!
Handel doesn't work with the vocal equivalent of big cars, either.
Very true...yet, there is much to be said for a Handel phrase, as well. So many volunteer choirs feel good just to sing the notes correctly. That is not Handel.
@@sarahhearn-vonfoerster7401 not everyone can be world class, music is supposed to be fun for the community. leave professional work to professionals, let communities enjoy activities.
How splendid these singers and conductor are!
Magnificent video! I love the example of the choir with and without vibrato. Amazing results.
🎼🎶 👋 Здравствуйте 🙂
Как это чудесно, увидеть репетиционные моменты, это очень правильно. Зрители должны понимать насколько непросто сделать номер, подготовить концерт.Ваш благородный труд приносит радость людям.Спасибо вам большое 💐
Bach often writes instrumentally for vocalists, and at times, vocally for instrumentalists...
This was wonderful and so illuminating! I hope one day to hear NBS in person. For now, I am grateful for your videos.
Of course, I am addicted to NBS videos. This video helped explain why, and how much work goes into the excellence that pervades every video produced by NBS. Thank you, all.
Bach is exceptionally challenging to vocalists because of the instrumental nature of the lines. I remember singing my first motet in my early 20s. I opened the choral score and immediately went to the conductor confused. I thought it was for organ..."know it's for you" - I just had a shocked look on my face; 16th notes going on and on for measures...0_o!
The first video I watched today. It truly set the - tone. And as ever, comments of others' experiences only add to the fullness of the feast.
Wonderful! Important information I never heard explicitly stated before. It applies to instrumentalists as well.
@5:07 excellent explanation about controlling vibrato.
Kind regards from Brazil. I loved their accents of English, thank you dutchiess ♡
writing for the voice like an instrument is a criticism/attribute that you hear often also referred to Vivaldi -coincidentally (or maybe not) greatly admired by Bach, whereas Handel for example was a master at that. (that's not just for the voice by the way, Bach is very difficult to play with the flute for the same reason)
Very informative and illuminating to me as Herr Bach was certainly an instrumentalist so the vocals are quite challenging in getting the expression just right. This choir is certainly one of the best interpreting Bach!
Viewing this video I understand the common language of Netherlands Bach Society is English, neither Dutch nor German. Anyway, they are all excellent and devoted singers. The conductor is also excellent and fervent. Thanks for the nice upload!
If the Netherlands Bach Society is going to draw from the best singers and instrumentalists in this music from throughout Europe (and, sometimes, other continents), English is most likely to be the language everyone has in common. (Also, the Dutch get years and years of English in school.)
The singers in Vox Luminis told me that they rehearse in English as well.
Thanks to a fantastic music theory teacher in my freshman year of high school (way back in 1991), having the class listen to and vigorously analyze Bach's music, Bach has been my musical mainstay for the last 33 years.
Thanks Mr. Diggs!
NBS really does a service to further enlighten lovers of Bach by taking us "behind the scenes" with these videos.
It would be enough to simply enjoy their performances.
To add this element where we get commentary from the conductor and various performers is such a treat.
Hoping for more videos like this.🎶
Dankjewel NBS voor jullie uitleg en voorbeelden met zingen waardoor alle temas zoveel meer duidelijk worden
Makes us appreciate the singers all the more! 🥰
Amazing stuff! Thank you very much for your work and existence, I am always learning and enjoying your videos but this was excellent. Hugs from Brazil
Much love and adoration for the NBS!
Thank you so much for this beautiful explaination. The work you NBS are doing is really precious for average people like me, who love music, but don't know the technicalities. Thank you once again
What an excellent and precise explanation of the phrasing and articulation goals of singing (and playing) Bach. I’ve shared your link with my choir, just preparing for perform the Johannes-Passion with period instruments, the first such performance in the state of Colorado. Hartelijk bedank en de beste wensen aan de NBS.
thank you & good luck with your performance of the St. John Passion
Amazing! Our choir also practice and perform Bach Choral Music... it is very difficult... But we think Bach Music is incredible, it is music of all music... Incomparable music.. We love it so much, and we wil commit to practice and perfome it, event though not easy
I'm happy to be singing Bach this summer. Really great tip about controlling vibrato! Thanks so much
What a fabulous video shedding light on singing the music of this great Master!! Thank you!!💕🌷🌺
nonstop top tier quality for years and years now thank you so much nbs
Excellent information!
Make the music shine. That is it. Thank you
Very interesting recording and always a superb experience when singing Bach ! Thanks !
Thank you for this beautiful video!
Very pedagogical. The Bach motets are indeed for the choral singers the equivalent of 8000's for mountaineers. Thanks NBS for all the wonderful videos you offer us !
Thak you for posting this, so interesting and to see the people.
Great, informative content!
Very interesting, makes me appreciate even more these excellent singers, who hardly have time to breath doing those long lines.
This is fascinating. I don't think I've ever sung Bach chorally, other than simple chorales. It gives me a new appreciation of what it takes to sing his work.
...and even "simple" chorale harmonisations by Bach will surprise you with unexpected chords and rythmic shifts in the various voices🙂
It seems as if Bach demanded vocalists to be musically agile like musicians which breathing is not really a concern/consideration.
Genius.
I'd like to give you one thousand likes for this video. Thank you very much NBS!
Excellent! Thank you for all these wonderfully helpful insight.
That was just incredible!
5:48 I'm all for straight tone singing, but I don't think the harmonies sound blurred at all. It just sounds richer to me.
Great explanations! Thanks for this detailed information, as a musician I appreciate it a lot.
Wonderful, wonderful wonderful!
Fascinating and brilliant!
I'd love to see this channel's take on BWV 38
Me too :)
An absolutely wonderful video🍃thank's
Thoroughly loved this video!!! Yoh!
Wonderful conductor IMO (Bart van Reyn).
Beyond very interesting. Thanks for the share.
Thank you for this!!!!
Well done, Bart! Still ike the instrumental version best, but it's me, I guess, the violinist. Schitterend! Groeten!
wundervoll demonstriert wie und wo der Unterschied bei Bach ist
Thanks for sharing this information
Miles Davis taught us a lot about how to control vibrato too.
Does the Bach Netherland society organize some masterclasses? I would be interested in a conducting course
We do not offer master classes at the moment. When we do offer this, we will announce it on our website and social media channels.
Astounding amount of dedication to convey this amazing music, thank you very much! You should get way more recognition, but alas... Quick question, what is that gorgeous music at 1:50?
That's from the slow movement Denn seine Gnade in BWV 230, motet Lobet den Herrn
Enjoy NBS and the Croatian Baroque Ensemble (CBE).
Precioso!
What they say about colaratura is helpful for any interpreters of Bach, not just singers. Maybe also especially for keyboard instrumentalists who have to get clear understanding about how all these voices should be played, so that the relations between the voices become audible for someone who has not studied the score but who only listens to the music. I think that there is always some kind of danger in understanding anything well, especially after studying it, which lies in assuming that others, who might not have studied the subject or given the subject any kind of thought, will also understand what oneself has come to understand only through careful study. This is true for theoretical subjects like mathematics or philosophy, but even more so for music, which should primarily not be understood theoretically but rather ... musically.
Very nice video! Will this rendition of the motet be released on All of Bach? I would love to hear a version with such a small amount of singers!
No, we only recorded during a rehearsal of the ensemble. There has been an earlier All of Bach-recording of this motet, BWV 230: www.bachvereniging.nl/en/bwv/bwv-230
Thank you!
Wonderful !
Thank you very much for your education!
I hardly believe that Bach was ignorant of the often enormous challenges which his works might have given to vocalists. I often think he deliberately disregarded "improving" his compositions for ease specifically in order to give his vocalists a major challenge. It's often exhilarating to witness vocalists reaching the end of a phrase when those singers may very well be on their last breath, but they still make the performance wonderful without them appearing exhausted.
bravi - fantastic
Excelente!!
Very entertaining, thanks!
It is true that Bach demands the utmost from the singers, but not the impossible! Bach was married to a professional singer, she will have told him what is feasible and what is not.
And if you listen to the solo cantatas he wrote specifically for her (for example, Jauchzet Gott in allen Landen, O holder Tag), you can tell that Anna Magdalena was very, very skilled.
@@mwnyc3976Yes, she was a skilled singer, but are you sure that the soprano or alto solo parts of the church cantatas were written for her ? If I learned that correctly, in Bach's time women weren't allowed to sing in church. When she left Köthen, Anna Magdalena lost her job and was no longer in the service of a princely or municipal orchestra. But she probably sang in the Cafe' Zimmermann in Leipzig from time to time when she performed there with her husband and sons.
@@wolsch3435
Certainly, women weren't supposed to sing in church cantatas in Leipzig.
"O holder Tag", like "Weichet nur," is a wedding cantata -- meaning for the reception, not the ceremony.
It had always been assumed that Bach had some spectacularly gifted teenage soprano to sing "Jauchzet Gott," but some years ago a scholar found a receipt of payment to Anna Magdalena for singing it. (I can't remember what the occasion was.)
@@mwnyc3976 Thank you for this information. Since coming across the magnicent Jauchzet Gott a few years ago I have always thought he must have written it for Anna Magdalena to sing. It's not written for a specific Sunday - he specifically says it can be sung at any time!
@@stephenlee1756
And if you compare "Jauchzet Gott" to the soprano arias for church -- say, "Blute nur" and "Ich will dir mein Herze schenken" from the St. Matthew Passion -- you can see a big difference in the degree of vocal difficulty. I think that's the difference between a well-trained teenage boy and a virtuosic professional female soprano.
I haaate to sing the Lobet 💓 congrats everybody
I hope that this is not inappropriate - I want to share that I always fall in love with the musicians of the Netherlands Bach Society. Clearly, they are great teamplayers, but, sadly, it is not too uncommon that musical virtuosity and skill are indirectly proportional to virtue and humbleness, which form the basis for achieving a common goal. Seemingly not so with these lovable and beautiful people. Also, caring deeply for Bach's music and message adds 15 points of attractiveness on a scale of ten. Additionally, being musically gifted adds another 2 points. This is objective science btw. It is psychologically impossible to see them sing and play in concert, realize how much they live through the music, and not wish them all the best for their lifes and their close ones.
excellence.... it's all in that German engineering, brought to us by Maestro Bach.
Would anyone know what the piece at 0:41 is ?
Lobet den Herrn BWV 230
♥
does anyone know what pieces were sung?
Motet
Motet Lobet den Herrn, BWV 230
@@bach Thank you!
Can anyone tell me what they’re singing from the 1.45 mark?
Lobet den Herrn, BWV 230, slower middle movement "Denn Seine Gnade"
❤️
Bach (from the grave): "Zippel Fagottist!" 😂
Funny, in some cases on an instrument, we say that the writing is more vocal! xD
The singer who said, "Of course at times we have thought about how the 18th-century or 17th-century singers must have sounded," seems not to know what century Bach composed in.
Those are the centuries that he composed in.
@@herrickinman9303 So most accurate is to say at the beginning of the 18th-century, since no vocal music being relevant to the topic of the video was produced by Bach in the 17th century. Got it.
🇧🇷🥰🇩🇪
I guess once you learned how to sing Bach, everything else is a piece of cake.
Ah, would that I had the kind of vocal control these singers speak of. I understand exactly what they're talking about, but the ability just isn't there anymore. I guess I'm just getting a bit old.
Too many people sing Bach as if it were opera, cant stand it.
Why is there a singer wearing latex gloves? Still afraid of the fakevirus or just personal mania?
You took *that* away from *this* video? What a sad being you are.
Dat vraag ik me nu ook de hele tijd af.
wow it is wonderful!
Amazing and informative video!