Was the reason that instruments were tuned a half-step lower than the 440 Hz in the Baroque era because it fit the singers' ranges better or for another reason?
@@lindacowles756 Thanks for your question! Pitch in the Baroque era is actually a really complex issue! Pitch levels were different in different places (by up to a tritone!) at the same time, let alone at different times, so it actually isn't true that all Baroque instruments were tuned to a half-step lower than modern pitch. So, in regard to singers' ranges, they were probably not much (or not at all) different than today, but were simply written at a pitch level that fit in with the instruments around them, wherever they happened to be. Often different instruments were even at different pitch levels in the same ensemble! In most of Bach cantatas (as well as in his Passions and the B Minor Mass), for example, the string instruments were at A=415, the organ was at A=465, and some of the winds were at A=392! The pitch everyone *played* in there in Leipzig at the time was A=415 (so the singers sang at A=415 for those pieces), though, but the organ and some of the other instruments had transposed parts! So it wasn't because of different singer ranges than today, though the singers' ranges in Baroque music were definitely written with specific pitch levels in mind. Hopefully that answers your question. If you want to learn more, I have a video all about "Baroque pitch": ruclips.net/video/LNkpWFL8XWA/видео.html
@@harpsichord 415 is Modern Baroque Pitch BTW cause it's actually a compromise (and a good one at that). Interestingly enough the Organ was retuned down to 415 so it matches the strings and also the winds have been tuned up to 415 so they also match the strings. Alot of instruments were retuned over the years.
@@harpsichord One thing I like about the Barenreiter edition is that it's based on the Original Manuscript, and they've revised the Piano Reduction Score for ease of playability.
The Barenreiter edition you're referring to is actually the older version. The newer version however has less notes in the Piano part so a much simpler and easier to play texture. Barenreiter editions are based on the Original Manuscript but they're much neater.
Thank you! My choir (the Cape Town Symphony Choir) is performing Bach's Christmas Oratorio in December, and we altos are finding it very difficult! Our marvellous conductor has shared some of the knowledge you have imparted about the background to Bach's music, and it was interesting to hear your expanded explanations. I'm not sure this is going to make it any easier to sing, but I'm really enjoying learning more about this composer and the Baroque period. As an ageing rock chick, I'm coming late to classical music through the medium of choral singing. So much to learn and catch up on!
This makes me want to re-transcribe some Bach arias for piano at a good pitch and playability. Similar to what Chris Sokolowski does with Handel reductions. hmmmmmm. Thanks for this, Alice!
My Barenreiter Edition Piano Reduction Score of BWV 244 has a much thinner texture in the Piano part & it's easier to play. It's based on the Original Manuscript.
@@harpsichord from what I see, the harpsichord is even harder than the piano because of the fingerings, it's there a reason of why keyboardists choose to play using only 3 or 4 fingers?
I don't have a really definite answer for you, but I think it's probably for two main reasons. Number one is that the thumb is the most difficult finger to use on the harpsichord becuase of the way it's angled differently from the other fingers in the hand. This difference makes it harder to release notes smoothly and with good, relaxed technique because you have to play on the side of the thumb instead of on the finger pad, like with the other fingers. So my guess is that composers and players avoided using the thumb as much as possible because of this, only using it when needed. Then the second reason is related to the first, which is that due to use of temperaments that didn't allow for use of all the keys (check out my temperaments videos if you haven't seen them already!) up through at least the middle of the 17th century, there was less use overall of the accidental notes (i.e., the "black keys") and, therefore, much less use of keys that can be rather difficult in the hand. The more difficult a key is to play in the more likely you'll need to make use of your thumbs, so before music was being written in those really "thorny" keys, there would have generally been less need to use the thumbs, I think. Those are my thoughts on the matter, though, like I said earlier, I don't really have a definite answer. Hope that helps, though! Thanks for your question!
Why is it that male singers (not including castrati) had later puberties and/or higher voices than today? Baroque pitch accounts for only a semitone or so.
This is a great question that I don't actually know the answer to! I know that voices broke later at that time (in the late rather than the early teens, or sometimes even later), and in France the pitch was generally around A = 392, or so, and so Rameau's operas, for example, would be down a full whole-step from modern A = 440 pitch, so maybe both of those things account for some of it. Other than those things, though, I'm not sure. Something I should look into!
Malnutrition. These little boy singers had a hard life, although they probably loved what they were doing, taking pride in it, and deriving self esteem from the fact that they were learning a sound trade. They were lower middle class boys, not fully paid artists. After class, in which they worked hard, they'd give performances, which were also a strain on the body; sleep was seen as a vice rather than a virtue, so was eating your fill. Discussion on what food was good and what bad scientifically was only just about to start at that time.
If you wanted to go w/ the Barenreiter Edition, I'd highly recommend using a Pedal Harpsichord so that you can play the lowest notes w/ your Feet to free up your Hands.
The Barenreiter Verlag Edition of BWV 244 is actually based on the Original Manuscript. The Piano Reduction (done by Alfred Durr) has been maintained but it has been revised and uncluttered so that it's easier to read and play.
Ya know there's a Pedal Harpsichord which is even larger in versatility cause you can play Organ Works & Organ Parts on a Harpsichord right off the bat.
What else do you want to know about Bach and his vocal music? Let me know with a comment below!
Was the reason that instruments were tuned a half-step lower than the 440 Hz in the Baroque era because it fit the singers' ranges better or for another reason?
@@lindacowles756 Thanks for your question! Pitch in the Baroque era is actually a really complex issue!
Pitch levels were different in different places (by up to a tritone!) at the same time, let alone at different times, so it actually isn't true that all Baroque instruments were tuned to a half-step lower than modern pitch. So, in regard to singers' ranges, they were probably not much (or not at all) different than today, but were simply written at a pitch level that fit in with the instruments around them, wherever they happened to be.
Often different instruments were even at different pitch levels in the same ensemble! In most of Bach cantatas (as well as in his Passions and the B Minor Mass), for example, the string instruments were at A=415, the organ was at A=465, and some of the winds were at A=392! The pitch everyone *played* in there in Leipzig at the time was A=415 (so the singers sang at A=415 for those pieces), though, but the organ and some of the other instruments had transposed parts! So it wasn't because of different singer ranges than today, though the singers' ranges in Baroque music were definitely written with specific pitch levels in mind.
Hopefully that answers your question. If you want to learn more, I have a video all about "Baroque pitch": ruclips.net/video/LNkpWFL8XWA/видео.html
@@harpsichord I would love a tutorial, leading through an aria suitable for beginners. Being egocentric, preferrably Mezzo Soprano or Alto :D
@@harpsichord 415 is Modern Baroque Pitch BTW cause it's actually a compromise (and a good one at that). Interestingly enough the Organ was retuned down to 415 so it matches the strings and also the winds have been tuned up to 415 so they also match the strings. Alot of instruments were retuned over the years.
@@harpsichord One thing I like about the Barenreiter edition is that it's based on the Original Manuscript, and they've revised the Piano Reduction Score for ease of playability.
I just found your channel and I love your content! Thank you so much for sharing such valuable information! Please, keep doing it more!!
Alice M. Chuaqui Baldwin, harpsichordist
The Barenreiter Editions (which are simplified for ease of playability) are based on the Original Manuscript.
The Barenreiter edition you're referring to is actually the older version. The newer version however has less notes in the Piano part so a much simpler and easier to play texture. Barenreiter editions are based on the Original Manuscript but they're much neater.
Great video, Alice!
Thank you! My choir (the Cape Town Symphony Choir) is performing Bach's Christmas Oratorio in December, and we altos are finding it very difficult! Our marvellous conductor has shared some of the knowledge you have imparted about the background to Bach's music, and it was interesting to hear your expanded explanations. I'm not sure this is going to make it any easier to sing, but I'm really enjoying learning more about this composer and the Baroque period. As an ageing rock chick, I'm coming late to classical music through the medium of choral singing. So much to learn and catch up on!
Excellent job and I thank you for it
Thank you Alice for these wonderful small lectures, I begin my way in learning to play early music and feel lucky to hear you!
Thank you so very much for your wonderful comment! I'm so glad and honored that you feel that way and that you are finding my videos useful!
Absolutely useful video! My wife is learning Erbarme Dich, and we’re working on it. Thank you for posting!!
This channel is amazing, I love early music - thank you for the insights!
Thank you so much! You have no idea how helpful this is for me! I love your channel by the way!
Thank you so much, Santiago! I'm so glad that you found this video helpful and that you're enjoying my channel! Thanks, again!
This makes me want to re-transcribe some Bach arias for piano at a good pitch and playability. Similar to what Chris Sokolowski does with Handel reductions. hmmmmmm. Thanks for this, Alice!
My pleasure and glad you liked the video, Connor!
Actually Barenreiter revised that Vocal Score for ease of readability.
My Barenreiter Edition Piano Reduction Score of BWV 244 has a much thinner texture in the Piano part & it's easier to play. It's based on the Original Manuscript.
You should talk about the various notation systems for keyboard during the renaissance and baroque
Thank you for the comment and I love this idea!! I'll definitely consider it for one of my future videos!
@@harpsichord from what I see, the harpsichord is even harder than the piano because of the fingerings, it's there a reason of why keyboardists choose to play using only 3 or 4 fingers?
I don't have a really definite answer for you, but I think it's probably for two main reasons.
Number one is that the thumb is the most difficult finger to use on the harpsichord becuase of the way it's angled differently from the other fingers in the hand. This difference makes it harder to release notes smoothly and with good, relaxed technique because you have to play on the side of the thumb instead of on the finger pad, like with the other fingers. So my guess is that composers and players avoided using the thumb as much as possible because of this, only using it when needed.
Then the second reason is related to the first, which is that due to use of temperaments that didn't allow for use of all the keys (check out my temperaments videos if you haven't seen them already!) up through at least the middle of the 17th century, there was less use overall of the accidental notes (i.e., the "black keys") and, therefore, much less use of keys that can be rather difficult in the hand. The more difficult a key is to play in the more likely you'll need to make use of your thumbs, so before music was being written in those really "thorny" keys, there would have generally been less need to use the thumbs, I think.
Those are my thoughts on the matter, though, like I said earlier, I don't really have a definite answer. Hope that helps, though! Thanks for your question!
Wow... your contents is awesome!!
I love bach... Thank you for listen to good music.
Let’s share music together :)
Thank you so much!
Gallou’s version is my favorite.
I've been figuring out how to sing & play this one & I'm a Baritenor so I had to sing the Vocal pat an Octave lower than written.
Why is it that male singers (not including castrati) had later puberties and/or higher voices than today? Baroque pitch accounts for only a semitone or so.
This is a great question that I don't actually know the answer to! I know that voices broke later at that time (in the late rather than the early teens, or sometimes even later), and in France the pitch was generally around A = 392, or so, and so Rameau's operas, for example, would be down a full whole-step from modern A = 440 pitch, so maybe both of those things account for some of it. Other than those things, though, I'm not sure. Something I should look into!
Malnutrition. These little boy singers had a hard life, although they probably loved what they were doing, taking pride in it, and deriving self esteem from the fact that they were learning a sound trade. They were lower middle class boys, not fully paid artists. After class, in which they worked hard, they'd give performances, which were also a strain on the body; sleep was seen as a vice rather than a virtue, so was eating your fill. Discussion on what food was good and what bad scientifically was only just about to start at that time.
If you wanted to go w/ the Barenreiter Edition, I'd highly recommend using a Pedal Harpsichord so that you can play the lowest notes w/ your Feet to free up your Hands.
The Barenreiter Verlag Edition of BWV 244 is actually based on the Original Manuscript. The Piano Reduction (done by Alfred Durr) has been maintained but it has been revised and uncluttered so that it's easier to read and play.
Ya know there's a Pedal Harpsichord which is even larger in versatility cause you can play Organ Works & Organ Parts on a Harpsichord right off the bat.
An even better idea would be to tune the entire Piano down a Half Step.
The NBA from Barenreiter Verlag is rather accurate.