I remember playing blood dps. The dancing rune weapon just doubled your damage. Was fun to see the sad faces of my raid members when they looked at recount
@@ChromeXHell I think the vid maker just didn't understand or realize how busted armor pen was in late wrath, and just made a vid for how dps looked like throughout the expac
I just love DK ever since its release. Back then I was way too young to realize how OP they were, I just loved the class and the theme. As soon as WOTLK launched I immedeatly rerolled to DK. I didn't even level my LvL 70 char. And since then I main the DK up until retail. I'm really looking forward to play it again in WOTLK Classic
Literally same story. I had alt syndrome because I got stuck after lv 30 and bored mainly. I mained a warrior and sucked at it. I also at some point sold all my gear and used him as a banking alt. But before I sold it I spent all my gold into agility gear because I thought it made me run faster and stuff like intelligence because I thought I would unlock spell casting. So I couldn't kill anything my lv. But when wrath came out it motivated me to buy some vendor white gear and start leveling to 55
I remember being an overpowered Blood DK, and Blood wasn't the Tank Spec, I mean the self-healing stuff was in Blood talent tree but all the stuff that made you Tankier was in Frost and I was a hybrid Blood-Frost DK and pretty much nobody could kill you, not even Frost Mage's monstrous burst damage but even when DK was at its most Overpowered you still couldn't beat a Frost Mage in 1v1, it was a stalemate, you'd heal like crazy as DK and they'd slow you down so much and polymorph you and eat back to full Health/Mana, god I loved the 1v1 aspect PvP, everyone were in front of Orgrimmar dueling, never understood how they didn't make 1v1 Arena(I get that the classes aren't balanced for 1v1) or at least a Hub for PvP.
@@baddoboss9075 I think they could made it more balanced by adding PvP Talents that balance out 1v1, talents that only activate during 1v1, but in a Retail manner where they've made all classes so much a like that all of the classes can pretty much do everything.
@@johng2794 I was very undergeared dueling fully geared highly rated frost mages on the server they were all +2k in arena and DK was my alt also my talents were made up by myself I never liked looking up for the most optimized tree
One of my first experiences with a DK was healing a normal Ramparts. The guy was an absolute monster. Even though he actually went to the AH and replaced his starter blues with things like Uther's Girdle. Lower level and stats that had no value to the class. We asked why he would do such a thing. "Lol" About all we got for an answer.
Ran 12/51/8 Frost 2H tank until ICC but still ran Frost tank/Blood Tank dual spec. Enjoyed it and can't wait to do it again, especially since i should have no trouble finding groups for 5 mans.
I remember like it was yesterday, seeing the reveal of DK, and commiting finally to ditch the private servers to, for the first time ever go retail. DK main as I loved the concept of Arthas's generation of DK since W3 and never looked back. To this day, DK is either my main or main alt. Can't wait
The thing I remember most about DKs redesigning how the game worked the most in all their various mind-bogglingly overpowered ways was how Howling was the *premiere* snap aggro button in early patches and kind of pushed Blizzard towards the "Tanks shouldn't have to try to maintain threat" mentality more from it to Cata.
Yep, played as blood dps in retail Wrath originally. Near the end of ToC, I was already switched over to unholy and stayed that spec...until Cataclysm prepatch released. From then on, my main spec has been a frost dk lol. But in Wrath classic, I plan on starting out as unholy and probably going to finish Wrath classic as unholy. DK has been my favorite class since their beginning, so it's definitely going to be my main. Every Wrath p server I'm on, my main is a dk lol
An alternative tanking build and you went with one that doesn't go into Howling Blast? You madlad! Honest advice: If you're tanking while leveling don't use the Blood/Frost build you see for endgame. It's super-maximized towards managing large incoming raid-boss style damage spikes while providing raid utility with two critical buffs. All of which is great but that's not what you need in a 5-man/leveling environment. Since bosses aren't particularly hard the reality is that you shouldn't be as worried about tanking single targets super well but rather controlling/damaging large groups. To that a Frost DK with Howling Blast (to say nothing of Morbidity at 68+) will do a shit-tonne more damage, have more frequent AOE options and the ability to glyph their HB so that they can skip pestilence on quickly dead trash pulls without completely invalidating the effectiveness of Blood Boil. I'll die on this hill! Frost before raids at 80 and the consensus Blood/Frost hybrid after raid tanking begins in earnest.
Agreed - most fun i've ever had as a tank is spamming 30 yard howling blasts on the pull. Add in death and decay and blood boil and nobody was pulling aggro from you on the aoe fests that was wrath dungeons.
@@fatalexception1269 Exactly! If there's one fairly minor thing I'd change about online WoW discourse (besides the obvious issues arising out of conduct that would be a TOS issue) it's this: "Hey, interesting choice, what prompted that?" followed by a response tailored to it. "I run this Frost spec for it's strong AOE." If you're below 80 or in a heroic 5 man that's all the explanation needed. If they're trying to get into your 10m LK pug than sure ask some other questions. But shit man players who've read the guides and never thought beyond but are nonetheless very opinionated are almost as bad to run into as willfully ignorant players who refuse to even learn the basics like hit cap or stat priority for a spec.
I raided through wrath as a blood dk and then was our dual wielding dk through icc because I wanted a change. I was always at the top of the charts and absolutely loved playing this class. I am dropping all my other characters to main dk through classic again!
At launch all the way up until the last patch, Frost DK tanks were the norm. Most of your tanking abilities and passives where there and the Frost presence was your tanking one so people put the most into that with great success. Blood was behind it in that regard due to it just being more about self healing to live rather than being an actual tank until tier sets came out. I know this because I was there as a Frost tank. It was only until the tier sets came out that Blood started coming into its own as a tank. Now the funniest thing I ever saw was a group of 3 Bloods, 1 Frost, and 1 Unholy Clearing dungeons because their ability to tank and do damage was leagues above everyone else. You probably did but the forums overflowed with salty tears then crying out for a nerf to bring them in line with the other classes. The response? "DKs are a Hero Class. They were designed to be a cut above." It was a great time.
Mained prot pally until late ToC, when my guild fell apart and i went casual. Decided to mess arpund on my frost DK and see what all the fuss was about. DK has been my main on retail ever since 😂
I remember tanking on an undead DK and half blues, 10-Man Naxx, MT for Grobbulus so kiting backwards in a rotation. I didn't realize that my party had wiped, I was still just tanking for a few minutes before they screamed on Vent to just die.
My main back in the day in wrath was a male troll frost DB tank. Had 30% dodge and perry and had tanked some ICC and 25 man ony on him. He was a ton of fun.
Tanking all ICC as frost tank was so good, I loved it. Absolutely no one could rip off your aggro, and it was really good against Lady Deathwhisper in 25 HEro, where taunts didn't work on her.
the 'flow' for deathknight tanking for wotlk typically goes as such: >Go frost/hybrid frost blood when youre in blues for the Def bonuses to be capped without gear >Once geared, Go blood >Once overgeared, You can tank in any spec.
in early wotlk , frost was better tank specc due to unbreakable armor op , good for raids but really op for hc farm , then in mid-late wotlk with all the changes and nerfs to frost blood was better
I played a blood dps dk in trial of the crusader, actually. The burst DPS was so high, I led on most every fight there. Then there was a smaller update made during that patch that reduced its power and made frost strike dk the best (if I'm remembering correctly).
@@brandonkruse6412 Right. I was just sharing an experience I had on day one of TOGC before anyone had T9 set bonuses. Back then I always found unholy DPS boring so I avoided it when I could. Not sure I'll play a DK this time around, TBH.
I'd like just to point out, that DKs in s8 (which will be the patch we'll be playing on) were one of the worst classes for arena on par with rogues, meaning that by far rogues and DKs got the least Gladiator titles compared to other classes. They had 2 actually playable setups, TSG which was mentioned in the vid and PHD (pala hunter dk), but all these classes had far better options for 3s, so not a lot of ppl choose a DK as a partner. So I'm interested to see how will this turn out 15 years later.
@@Tyler-ol6gm As far as I can remember warlocks were one of the best. Generally there were a lot of spellcleaves as far as I can remember. You could probably dig up some archived data from ArenaJunkies or s'thing.
Unholy tank is a lot better for dungeons due to the massive aoe (and threat). DKs usually suffer from weak aoe threat, which isnt the case if you go UH tank. UH tanking is also the best magic tank by far.
@@JustChristianBlack blood is really only useful for single target tanking. The aoe threat is really weak and it isn't hard to pull mobs off a blood dk in aoe scenarios. Also, you rarely need the self healing... Let's be honest, even in a raiding scenario, the self healing is more like "oh shit why are the healers sleeping" as you have 1 to 2 holy pals providing massive healing on you passively
@@Kalisparo i agree, i think blood tank is overhyped due to having slightly more health, the self healing and hysteria. Frost does everything else better, Threat per second, Aoe, Dps, Range, better CD's. I ran 12/51/8 back in retail wrath I only went blood during the initial ICC dodge debuff.
@@JustChristianBlack arguably unholy is probably the best for magic damage tanking, ie where the big spikes (the only thing we really care about for tanks, as healers are more than capable of dealing with sustained damage), as it has the better CDs to tank it. In thinking stuff like sindragosa breath etc. I'm not a huge fan of the coming DK meta as I don't see self healing as being particularly important when you have hpallies disc priests and resto dudus who all need a target for their main spell. I'd argue the sheer chonk of a druid is better, especially for raids with more than 1 hpally.
You don’t really need to be an AoE tank, rogues and hunters can manage your trash threat for you. Once you get into T10, your DnD will do a lot more damage anyway, especially taking the talent and glyph for it. There’s a misconception that Howling Blast is good for threat, it’s actually not. The only spells that have a base threat multiplier are Icy Touch, DnD & Rune Strike. Technically, you can snap aggro faster with spamming blood boil (given you’ve taken talents that buff the damage) than Howling Blast as you can cast DnD from a distance and Blood Boil them up close to add threat.
That's the main speck for tank in the private server that I used to play, hold the thread easily and had a great CD for gain of armor. Blood DKs have a lot of self healing but seems to take more damage while in a raid with good healers u don't have to care about it, in blood u gave more espace for healers deal with the rest of raid. I think blood much cooler than frost, principally when you get the marrogar axe.
hysteria is a 20% physical dmg boost, not a total 20% dmg boost and it does not stack with other %dmg boost personal CD's like death wish and it overwrites these same CD's. That being said feral cat is by far the best spec to give it to if you have one in your raid. It stacks with their offensive CD (Berserk) since berserk reduces energy cost on spells and doesnt give a %dmg boost and feral cat does 100% physical damage getting bull benefit from hysteria. So blood dk's dont be bad :D
just hope they fixed the patchwork hateful strikes.. i watched a dk parry too much and it fuckin decimated the offtank legit had to have a war go prot to handle that boss because the parries would speed up the strikes.. healers couldnt over heal the ot enough.
And unfortunately dodge/parry is very poor for raiding in Wrath, especially in ICC as you get a -20% debuff to both. DKs want to stack armor and health.
Frost used to be so fun until they slowed it down and ruined it. The fast pace and fluidity made it my favorite class of all time. I won't even touch it in retail because it's been changed so much
i still remember wotlk beta, when i was frost dk as a tank and was tanking every dungeon with 4 blood dd dks. Their passive were enough to outheal every damage :D so sad, frost wasnt made to tank and that blizz decided to switch and do a fixed tank/dps tree. Will still try frost tank in wotlk classic
There used to be some ways to dual wield hybrid spec into frost & unholy which was a lot of fun. Also 2h frost was not too bad getting some serious obliterate / howling blast crit combos
Awesome as usual WillE! I wonder tho can i play blood as dps bc i don’t want to tank? Also if i go unholy can i just skip having the ghoul 100% of the time? I don’t like having a pet like hunters etc but want to play two handed.
I played a DK back then but I'd say Feral Druids in WoD may have been even stronger than DKs on release (for pvp at least). When Ferals could cast heals and cyclone in cat form... it was nuts. I miss it.
I wish they would give us our raid buffs back and make us slightly less squishy. DPS specs in DF feel like clothies that have had their knee caps broken.
the unholy DW isnt a new thing either, it was originally a meme in Naxx because Scourge Strike was super bad, and you just spammed plague strike, with fallen crusader and cinderglacier for big death coils. But I have a feeling that blood dps is going to be like Ret paladins were in TBC classic. The meme that went on to actually be good.
Howling blast and dnd were the two main ways I’d have every mob in the pack staying right on me np lol I’ll def be messing with a dk when I have time to play
I remember rolling my frost DK on the patches where Icy Touch was absolutely broken. 0 drakes zerg and almost double the dps of every other class? Yes please. Man loved that... then they nerfed it lol.
Props to digging deep into those wierd dk's specs as for example dual wield UNH. Most people just take 2 random dps builds from google and claim that they did a guide for dk
Blood dk can certainly do damage in pvp, you just need armor pen... 2 hand frost can still work too but again, you need armor pen, basically smorn.. It's so sad they removed presences, it feels like dks sort of lost their soul in retail when they did that.. Anyway, love that you used a nelf for presentation, good video as always
in Wotlk I played a Prot pally and an Ele shaman but I couldn't help but be a bit jealous of death knights because of how fun they looked. I might have to play one this time around.
Initial DK was ridiculously OP, basically soloing 5man quests (other than ring of blood and amphitheatre) due to death strike effectively healing 50% of your hp but pretty sure we'll be starting off with the late-patch nerfed DK's so we may not be seeing very successful 5man Ramparts groups
dropping mark of blood on ferals/rouges and watching them topping your friendo with auoattacks, like they push blood back into body will never get boring
the ammount of rogues there were in vanilla and bc were only overshadowed by the sheer ammount of deathknights in wrath... that shit was so op a 2v2 arena would automatically leave if they saw an undead dk because they knew they were really fighting a 2v3.. you self rezzed and the ghoul mode would do more damage than the dk could and this was AFTER dumping all of your mana to heal through the in fucking sane dps they already had.
should be interesting to see how DW frost tanking will perform this time around as I wanted to play this spec through normal Ulduar. Hoping the naxx boss buffs don't take its viability away as it's such a fun and amazing aoe tank and didnt really fall behind until those HM Ulduar fights and beyond.
Depends how much they buff boss auto-attacks as frost dw tank has same problem prot warriors have in 3.3.5 - they can 2-shotted if boss hits hard enough (meanwhile paladins have ardent defender, blood has will of the necropolis and bears have crazy stamina scaling). Might be viable or even optimal as it does a lot higher damage in early tiers, but unlikely to be viable in T9/T10 heroic progress.
@@r21vo They could solve that issue by modifying the bosses' auto attack speed and damage. Make it the same damage per second, but spread out a little more so there's time to heal in between and mitigation becomes a little more important. Barring Anub'arak's adds, block value is a very underperforming stat as it is, and Warriors get utterly trucked. I might also slightly lower a Paladin's block values (not by much) to bring all the tanks a bit more in line with each other. But on the topic of Frost Tanks - they are great in 5 man dungeons and are probably very capable off-tanks on certain fights. I suspect they aren't quite chunky enough for main tanking in appropriate gear, however - but I could be wrong. Heck, we were wrong about DPS Warriors and Rogues in TBC - they aren't trash!
Frost DK tanking is/was* viable thru normal ulduar. I dont like to judge any tanks thru normal ulduar because it's really a non-issue with how easy the raids are - maybe that changes tho this rendition of wotlk. they're fine for MT and superior for aoe tanking (definitely best add tank for sarth 3-drake for example). no doubt they fall to other tanks/specs beyond normal ulduar and you'd be hindering your raid choosing to play it most fights in the later stages. just hoping these naxx buffs dont make them ineffective early on.
@@andromidius what do you mean more in line with each other, wotlk is the only expansion that comes to mind where all tank specs are super viable and strong.
Just a heads up, blood is really only optimal in ICC, every raid/dungeon before that, frost or a frost-blood hybrid is generally much better and easier
the problem with DKs in pvp this time (since they are no longer that strong) will be that they have gotten no heal reduce for their enemies in wotlk and therefore in 2v2 they can´t really compete with warriors and alike anymore on top lvl
@@nharj7674 u need to do 200% dmg of a warrior to be the same lvl of frightening to healers without MS... and when having armor penetrations becomes a thing u dont even do 30% more dmg. warrior + pala will stomp on dk + pala
@@johng2794 yes, afaik there is no other class in wotlk, that have BOTH silence and kick in their base kit. You also dont need to do 200% of warrior DMG when your target just straight can't heal. IN Fact i could say, that warriors have to do more DMG than DKs, becouse you still can shield for 100% effectivnes even with MS effect on yourself, while you can't even do that when you are silenced/locked
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Second person to promote this one hehe
DW Unholy (Morb) is BIS until Shadowmourne. So if you are on a hotlist for Shadowmourne that's when you go to 2h UH and that's it.
Congrats on the new sponsor bro
Everyone is to good at pubg these days, im just free kills for the no lifers lol.
Wille I’m going to kill my opponents on pubg in the name of willE
Playing blood DK at launch was so fun, clearing Hellfire Citadel with 5 level 58 blood DK's is one of my favourite memories from early wrath
Same bro!
Those 5 man DK Hellfire runs is one of those core gaming memories for me.
Is it tho
I remember playing in the Wrath beta and soloing four level 63 orcs as a 58 DK. Bloodworms were nutty lmao
Had a lot of fun doing insane pulls for the times with just DnD and BB.
Dicks out for the inevitable 5 man DK hellfire ramparts
with the fastest clear times ever
Um, Ramparts? You mean 10 DK ToC. Pretty sure that's what you meant.
I really enjoy this series.
Agreed. Been here since the first one and loving it.
You're in luck. Nearly all that's here.
@@MadisonAdams619 I almost took you seriously there for a second. WiLLE’s been pumping content for years
Save it! It’s all yours my friend.
I remember people legit defending DKs being OP by saying they were a Hero Class, they were supposed to be stronger than standard classes.
I too recall this.
Didn't make sense then either
DK andys that wanted to stay overpowered. How does being stronger than the other classes make it fair for both PvE and PvP?
I was 15 and sucked at the game, just let me have my over tuned OP DK. - Me in 2008
Well that was the point of hero class, supposed to be stronger than any class.. but obviously it turned to be a toxic shit so was nerfed hard
@@alihorda that was never the point
I remember playing blood dps. The dancing rune weapon just doubled your damage. Was fun to see the sad faces of my raid members when they looked at recount
I played Blood dps in icc and I had the same reactions from guildies
@@ChromeXHell I think the vid maker just didn't understand or realize how busted armor pen was in late wrath, and just made a vid for how dps looked like throughout the expac
Was the emotionless, cold blooded killing machine of a class crafted by the lich king himself good?
Short answer: yes
Long answer: still yes
I just love DK ever since its release. Back then I was way too young to realize how OP they were, I just loved the class and the theme.
As soon as WOTLK launched I immedeatly rerolled to DK. I didn't even level my LvL 70 char.
And since then I main the DK up until retail. I'm really looking forward to play it again in WOTLK Classic
Literally same story. I had alt syndrome because I got stuck after lv 30 and bored mainly. I mained a warrior and sucked at it. I also at some point sold all my gear and used him as a banking alt. But before I sold it I spent all my gold into agility gear because I thought it made me run faster and stuff like intelligence because I thought I would unlock spell casting. So I couldn't kill anything my lv.
But when wrath came out it motivated me to buy some vendor white gear and start leveling to 55
Dual wield, magic, self healing, dark and cool.
It's like this class was made for me, never played anything but frost DK from wotlk to legion.
I've been waiting for this video for 3 months... FINALLY! THANK YOU!
I remember being an overpowered Blood DK, and Blood wasn't the Tank Spec, I mean the self-healing stuff was in Blood talent tree but all the stuff that made you Tankier was in Frost and I was a hybrid Blood-Frost DK and pretty much nobody could kill you, not even Frost Mage's monstrous burst damage but even when DK was at its most Overpowered you still couldn't beat a Frost Mage in 1v1, it was a stalemate, you'd heal like crazy as DK and they'd slow you down so much and polymorph you and eat back to full Health/Mana, god I loved the 1v1 aspect PvP, everyone were in front of Orgrimmar dueling, never understood how they didn't make 1v1 Arena(I get that the classes aren't balanced for 1v1) or at least a Hub for PvP.
1 v 1 arena would be so cool, classes also arent balanced around being 2 v 2 and we still have that
I also made a frost-based AOE tank, which worked VERY well for dungeons/heroics. Obviously not a raiding build due to things like parry-haste, etc.
@@baddoboss9075 I think they could made it more balanced by adding PvP Talents that balance out 1v1, talents that only activate during 1v1, but in a Retail manner where they've made all classes so much a like that all of the classes can pretty much do everything.
u should beat frost mages as DK^^
@@johng2794 I was very undergeared dueling fully geared highly rated frost mages on the server
they were all +2k in arena and DK was my alt
also my talents were made up by myself
I never liked looking up for the most optimized tree
Was it good? No. _It was phenomenal._
One of my first experiences with a DK was healing a normal Ramparts. The guy was an absolute monster. Even though he actually went to the AH and replaced his starter blues with things like Uther's Girdle. Lower level and stats that had no value to the class. We asked why he would do such a thing.
"Lol"
About all we got for an answer.
You were both right
Ran 12/51/8 Frost 2H tank until ICC but still ran Frost tank/Blood Tank dual spec. Enjoyed it and can't wait to do it again, especially since i should have no trouble finding groups for 5 mans.
I remember like it was yesterday, seeing the reveal of DK, and commiting finally to ditch the private servers to, for the first time ever go retail. DK main as I loved the concept of Arthas's generation of DK since W3 and never looked back. To this day, DK is either my main or main alt.
Can't wait
Love how in WOTLK classes contribute more group buffs that just 1 or 2. I think retail is lacking that.
The thing I remember most about DKs redesigning how the game worked the most in all their various mind-bogglingly overpowered ways was how Howling was the *premiere* snap aggro button in early patches and kind of pushed Blizzard towards the "Tanks shouldn't have to try to maintain threat" mentality more from it to Cata.
Yep, played as blood dps in retail Wrath originally. Near the end of ToC, I was already switched over to unholy and stayed that spec...until Cataclysm prepatch released. From then on, my main spec has been a frost dk lol.
But in Wrath classic, I plan on starting out as unholy and probably going to finish Wrath classic as unholy. DK has been my favorite class since their beginning, so it's definitely going to be my main. Every Wrath p server I'm on, my main is a dk lol
An alternative tanking build and you went with one that doesn't go into Howling Blast? You madlad!
Honest advice: If you're tanking while leveling don't use the Blood/Frost build you see for endgame. It's super-maximized towards managing large incoming raid-boss style damage spikes while providing raid utility with two critical buffs.
All of which is great but that's not what you need in a 5-man/leveling environment. Since bosses aren't particularly hard the reality is that you shouldn't be as worried about tanking single targets super well but rather controlling/damaging large groups.
To that a Frost DK with Howling Blast (to say nothing of Morbidity at 68+) will do a shit-tonne more damage, have more frequent AOE options and the ability to glyph their HB so that they can skip pestilence on quickly dead trash pulls without completely invalidating the effectiveness of Blood Boil.
I'll die on this hill! Frost before raids at 80 and the consensus Blood/Frost hybrid after raid tanking begins in earnest.
Agreed - most fun i've ever had as a tank is spamming 30 yard howling blasts on the pull. Add in death and decay and blood boil and nobody was pulling aggro from you on the aoe fests that was wrath dungeons.
@@fatalexception1269 Exactly!
If there's one fairly minor thing I'd change about online WoW discourse (besides the obvious issues arising out of conduct that would be a TOS issue) it's this:
"Hey, interesting choice, what prompted that?" followed by a response tailored to it.
"I run this Frost spec for it's strong AOE."
If you're below 80 or in a heroic 5 man that's all the explanation needed.
If they're trying to get into your 10m LK pug than sure ask some other questions.
But shit man players who've read the guides and never thought beyond but are nonetheless very opinionated are almost as bad to run into as willfully ignorant players who refuse to even learn the basics like hit cap or stat priority for a spec.
17:14
The way he always go under the map for a brief sec will always be funny :D
21:05
Drops death and decay
Pulls Warlock
Silence him
Immidietaly jumps down
Real sigma
I raided through wrath as a blood dk and then was our dual wielding dk through icc because I wanted a change. I was always at the top of the charts and absolutely loved playing this class. I am dropping all my other characters to main dk through classic again!
overpowered class for nub button mashers
@@turinhorsecope
One of my favorite memories from wotlk was doing 3 drakes as a blood DPS spec on my DK named Iamlegend
At launch all the way up until the last patch, Frost DK tanks were the norm. Most of your tanking abilities and passives where there and the Frost presence was your tanking one so people put the most into that with great success. Blood was behind it in that regard due to it just being more about self healing to live rather than being an actual tank until tier sets came out. I know this because I was there as a Frost tank. It was only until the tier sets came out that Blood started coming into its own as a tank.
Now the funniest thing I ever saw was a group of 3 Bloods, 1 Frost, and 1 Unholy Clearing dungeons because their ability to tank and do damage was leagues above everyone else. You probably did but the forums overflowed with salty tears then crying out for a nerf to bring them in line with the other classes. The response? "DKs are a Hero Class. They were designed to be a cut above." It was a great time.
Mained prot pally until late ToC, when my guild fell apart and i went casual. Decided to mess arpund on my frost DK and see what all the fuss was about. DK has been my main on retail ever since 😂
I remember tanking on an undead DK and half blues, 10-Man Naxx, MT for Grobbulus so kiting backwards in a rotation. I didn't realize that my party had wiped, I was still just tanking for a few minutes before they screamed on Vent to just die.
I remember when wrath dropped i swapped to DK and the powertrip i had in pvp and pve too is unparalelled
My main back in the day in wrath was a male troll frost DB tank. Had 30% dodge and perry and had tanked some ICC and 25 man ony on him. He was a ton of fun.
Tanking all ICC as frost tank was so good, I loved it. Absolutely no one could rip off your aggro, and it was really good against Lady Deathwhisper in 25 HEro, where taunts didn't work on her.
the 'flow' for deathknight tanking for wotlk typically goes as such:
>Go frost/hybrid frost blood when youre in blues for the Def bonuses to be capped without gear
>Once geared, Go blood
>Once overgeared, You can tank in any spec.
in early wotlk , frost was better tank specc due to unbreakable armor op , good for raids but really op for hc farm , then in mid-late wotlk with all the changes and nerfs to frost blood was better
Killing it with these videos lately WillE!
I'm hyped for Priest for a while now....oh well I suppose I will have to wait for the best for last.
I played a blood dps dk in trial of the crusader, actually. The burst DPS was so high, I led on most every fight there. Then there was a smaller update made during that patch that reduced its power and made frost strike dk the best (if I'm remembering correctly).
T9 Unholy is the best spec across all classes due to the AoE in ToGC and how strong the T9 4-set bonus is, making your diseases dots crit.
@@brandonkruse6412 Right. I was just sharing an experience I had on day one of TOGC before anyone had T9 set bonuses. Back then I always found unholy DPS boring so I avoided it when I could. Not sure I'll play a DK this time around, TBH.
I'd like just to point out, that DKs in s8 (which will be the patch we'll be playing on) were one of the worst classes for arena on par with rogues, meaning that by far rogues and DKs got the least Gladiator titles compared to other classes.
They had 2 actually playable setups, TSG which was mentioned in the vid and PHD (pala hunter dk), but all these classes had far better options for 3s, so not a lot of ppl choose a DK as a partner.
So I'm interested to see how will this turn out 15 years later.
Mate. What WERE the best in s8? I didn't know this info and now am confused.
@@Tyler-ol6gm As far as I can remember warlocks were one of the best. Generally there were a lot of spellcleaves as far as I can remember. You could probably dig up some archived data from ArenaJunkies or s'thing.
Glad i found ur channel, you have amazing content
Been waiting for this one for a while!
DK in WotLK was to quote the poet, un-friggin-believable. I had the best time on DK. That starting experience really was something else.
Unholy tank is a lot better for dungeons due to the massive aoe (and threat). DKs usually suffer from weak aoe threat, which isnt the case if you go UH tank. UH tanking is also the best magic tank by far.
Frost tank with howling blast and Improved DnD does ok with AoE threat. Both are far better than blood in that area.
@@JustChristianBlack blood is really only useful for single target tanking. The aoe threat is really weak and it isn't hard to pull mobs off a blood dk in aoe scenarios. Also, you rarely need the self healing... Let's be honest, even in a raiding scenario, the self healing is more like "oh shit why are the healers sleeping" as you have 1 to 2 holy pals providing massive healing on you passively
@@Kalisparo i agree, i think blood tank is overhyped due to having slightly more health, the self healing and hysteria. Frost does everything else better, Threat per second, Aoe, Dps, Range, better CD's. I ran 12/51/8 back in retail wrath I only went blood during the initial ICC dodge debuff.
@@JustChristianBlack arguably unholy is probably the best for magic damage tanking, ie where the big spikes (the only thing we really care about for tanks, as healers are more than capable of dealing with sustained damage), as it has the better CDs to tank it. In thinking stuff like sindragosa breath etc. I'm not a huge fan of the coming DK meta as I don't see self healing as being particularly important when you have hpallies disc priests and resto dudus who all need a target for their main spell. I'd argue the sheer chonk of a druid is better, especially for raids with more than 1 hpally.
You don’t really need to be an AoE tank, rogues and hunters can manage your trash threat for you. Once you get into T10, your DnD will do a lot more damage anyway, especially taking the talent and glyph for it.
There’s a misconception that Howling Blast is good for threat, it’s actually not. The only spells that have a base threat multiplier are Icy Touch, DnD & Rune Strike.
Technically, you can snap aggro faster with spamming blood boil (given you’ve taken talents that buff the damage) than Howling Blast as you can cast DnD from a distance and Blood Boil them up close to add threat.
I remember using a weird dual wield Frost tank. Had a few problems but was amazing once it got going.
It did well for AOE/dungeons, in my experience.
Yup same half blood half frost duel wild
That's the main speck for tank in the private server that I used to play, hold the thread easily and had a great CD for gain of armor. Blood DKs have a lot of self healing but seems to take more damage while in a raid with good healers u don't have to care about it, in blood u gave more espace for healers deal with the rest of raid. I think blood much cooler than frost, principally when you get the marrogar axe.
hysteria is a 20% physical dmg boost, not a total 20% dmg boost and it does not stack with other %dmg boost personal CD's like death wish and it overwrites these same CD's. That being said feral cat is by far the best spec to give it to if you have one in your raid. It stacks with their offensive CD (Berserk) since berserk reduces energy cost on spells and doesnt give a %dmg boost and feral cat does 100% physical damage getting bull benefit from hysteria. So blood dk's dont be bad :D
Correct
spotted the feral ;)
Wrath: when your dungeon group tells the geared protection warrior to "just do some dps" while the pvp talented death knight tanks.
:pepehands:
We need the warrior video!!! I'm manifesting it. titans grip!!! bladestorm!! tom cruise was hype about it even. (bis meme video)
I'm still gonna be aiming for that big Frost Dk Tanking spec. The dual wielding dodge parry tank was way more interesting conceptually to me.
just hope they fixed the patchwork hateful strikes.. i watched a dk parry too much and it fuckin decimated the offtank legit had to have a war go prot to handle that boss because the parries would speed up the strikes.. healers couldnt over heal the ot enough.
And unfortunately dodge/parry is very poor for raiding in Wrath, especially in ICC as you get a -20% debuff to both. DKs want to stack armor and health.
@@brandonkruse6412 mind your damn business. I'll dodge and parry all I want.
I remember a lot of dks went blood dps in ICC with deathbringers will
Great video again. Cannot wait to main a DK in Wrath!
Frost used to be so fun until they slowed it down and ruined it. The fast pace and fluidity made it my favorite class of all time. I won't even touch it in retail because it's been changed so much
i still remember wotlk beta, when i was frost dk as a tank and was tanking every dungeon with 4 blood dd dks. Their passive were enough to outheal every damage :D so sad, frost wasnt made to tank and that blizz decided to switch and do a fixed tank/dps tree. Will still try frost tank in wotlk classic
It wasn't changed into a fixed tank/dps tree until Cataclysm, when they made blood the tank tree. It's ok to tank frost in wotlk
@@JustChristianBlack i know. I wasnt clear enough, meant after wotlk
Unholy it is then, cheers WillE!
I'm just sitting here waiting for the "Priest in WotLK Classic: Was It Any Good Though" :D
I really want a Wrath Prepatch, was it any good?
Blizzard finally came out with a class that EVERYONE and ANYONE could be good at
And here we go with the THIRD WillE DK class video. Did I watch it? Yep, and I'll watch the next one. 😁
There used to be some ways to dual wield hybrid spec into frost & unholy which was a lot of fun. Also 2h frost was not too bad getting some serious obliterate / howling blast crit combos
Y reminded me of 2h enhancer with windfury crit procs in pvp. Onoshot cloth guys every time :D
Ah takes me back to when DKs were constantly attacking Thrallmar and Honor Hold the moment the got to Outland lol
Awesome as usual WillE! I wonder tho can i play blood as dps bc i don’t want to tank?
Also if i go unholy can i just skip having the ghoul 100% of the time?
I don’t like having a pet like hunters etc but want to play two handed.
I'm going to run a DK in Wrath Classic. Thumbs up!
I played a Frost 2h spec back in wotlk and will be doing it again in classic. It's so fun, huge crits, big aoe bursts, what more can you ask for?
frost tank on onyxia with howling blast was top tier fun
DW frost tanking in Ulduar was maybe the peak of fun for me in this game.
They should absolutely do eras of the game where they roll through the patches. I could play this game forever, classic and retail alike.
Unholy tank during ulduar was sorta lit. But to be fair, I was a noob just getting into raiding so ya know.
I played blood dps from begining till ICC, then moved to DW frost. Always topped the charts, but threat was an issue sometimes
Death rune mastery what a throw back. Blood dps with pen gems and an 8 heart strike combo.
Will self healing blood still be viable? I learned of this kinda late, as was a frost 4ever... but blood heal was sick
I played a DK back then but I'd say Feral Druids in WoD may have been even stronger than DKs on release (for pvp at least).
When Ferals could cast heals and cyclone in cat form... it was nuts. I miss it.
so excited to play OG dk again been so long.
I played Enh Shaman first time around but I'm thinking about trying out Frost DK this time.
It was BlizzCon 2007 that they announced Wrath of the Lich King and Death Knights. There wasn't even a BlizzCon in 2006.
Good to see our boi Gnimo. No fluffybully in the rogue one tho 😢
I was guilds off tank for ICC and I was frost. Saw no need for blood.
Ran many dungeons in Wrath with 5 Death Knights, it was wild.
my guild did a meme raid night where we cleared the 25m raids with just DK's you would just rotate tank and if one died boom their back as a ghoul
Cinderglacier was the goat enchant until fallen crusader while levelling, could almost 1 shot
I wish they would give us our raid buffs back and make us slightly less squishy. DPS specs in DF feel like clothies that have had their knee caps broken.
the unholy DW isnt a new thing either, it was originally a meme in Naxx because Scourge Strike was super bad, and you just spammed plague strike, with fallen crusader and cinderglacier for big death coils. But I have a feeling that blood dps is going to be like Ret paladins were in TBC classic. The meme that went on to actually be good.
I'm hopeful 🙏
true
the dick wielders had a tough reputation
Afaik, Blood DPS can be good but you need a shitload of ArPen
@@Shiftinggers Yes. Just like Fury warriors.
Blood is good when the expension is over, Fury gets good in middle/late Ulduar so i doubt its gonna be big thing also since unholy t9 set is so strong
Unholy DKs pet put the fear of god into feral druids and rogues. That stun is sooooo good
Awesome video!
Howling blast and dnd were the two main ways I’d have every mob in the pack staying right on me np lol I’ll def be messing with a dk when I have time to play
Will blood be a dps spec again?
I love willie
Man, I'm gonna miss the unholy talent to let you battle-res yourself as a ghoul. It was sooooo much fun
Wait, you can do it yourself? I thought it was for other players
@@soleo2783 when wrath released you could, but they removed that half way in the expansion
I remember rolling my frost DK on the patches where Icy Touch was absolutely broken. 0 drakes zerg and almost double the dps of every other class? Yes please.
Man loved that... then they nerfed it lol.
Thanks. I loved my death knight very fun class
Props to digging deep into those wierd dk's specs as for example dual wield UNH. Most people just take 2 random dps builds from google and claim that they did a guide for dk
Back in wrath I was a DW unholy everyone just called me a "Huntard in plate"
:1
Blood dk can certainly do damage in pvp, you just need armor pen... 2 hand frost can still work too but again, you need armor pen, basically smorn.. It's so sad they removed presences, it feels like dks sort of lost their soul in retail when they did that.. Anyway, love that you used a nelf for presentation, good video as always
in Wotlk I played a Prot pally and an Ele shaman but I couldn't help but be a bit jealous of death knights because of how fun they looked. I might have to play one this time around.
You and everyone else 😂 still worth it
Applying and spreading your diseases and doing blood boil to proc them in raids is so dam fun. Your whole screen is just numbers
Initial DK was ridiculously OP, basically soloing 5man quests (other than ring of blood and amphitheatre) due to death strike effectively healing 50% of your hp
but pretty sure we'll be starting off with the late-patch nerfed DK's so we may not be seeing very successful 5man Ramparts groups
The only 5 man in Dragonblight that I wasn't able to solo was Grom'thar himself, mostly because of the knockbacks and the high damage
You can still solo everything except those, even the first quests of that chain too but not the end
I miss frost tanking. And Unholy tanking. Also blood is great for bgs just mark the biggest noob in wsg and let him be your pocket healer.
dropping mark of blood on ferals/rouges and watching them topping your friendo with auoattacks, like they push blood back into body will never get boring
I would bring three DK's, one of each spec. DK isn't going to be "broken" or "overpowered", but it will be solid.
is mostof DK dmg diseses?
I remember you can run ramparts dungeon with 5 DK hehe good times tho...
Hi WillE. You did a video sponsored by some mature gaming furniture company? What are they called? I can't find the exact video.
the ammount of rogues there were in vanilla and bc were only overshadowed by the sheer ammount of deathknights in wrath... that shit was so op a 2v2 arena would automatically leave if they saw an undead dk because they knew they were really fighting a 2v3.. you self rezzed and the ghoul mode would do more damage than the dk could and this was AFTER dumping all of your mana to heal through the in fucking sane dps they already had.
I had a dw frost tank build I rocked in 5 mans, looking forward to re-visting it
should be interesting to see how DW frost tanking will perform this time around as I wanted to play this spec through normal Ulduar. Hoping the naxx boss buffs don't take its viability away as it's such a fun and amazing aoe tank and didnt really fall behind until those HM Ulduar fights and beyond.
Depends how much they buff boss auto-attacks as frost dw tank has same problem prot warriors have in 3.3.5 - they can 2-shotted if boss hits hard enough (meanwhile paladins have ardent defender, blood has will of the necropolis and bears have crazy stamina scaling). Might be viable or even optimal as it does a lot higher damage in early tiers, but unlikely to be viable in T9/T10 heroic progress.
@@r21vo They could solve that issue by modifying the bosses' auto attack speed and damage. Make it the same damage per second, but spread out a little more so there's time to heal in between and mitigation becomes a little more important. Barring Anub'arak's adds, block value is a very underperforming stat as it is, and Warriors get utterly trucked. I might also slightly lower a Paladin's block values (not by much) to bring all the tanks a bit more in line with each other.
But on the topic of Frost Tanks - they are great in 5 man dungeons and are probably very capable off-tanks on certain fights. I suspect they aren't quite chunky enough for main tanking in appropriate gear, however - but I could be wrong. Heck, we were wrong about DPS Warriors and Rogues in TBC - they aren't trash!
Frost DK tanking is/was* viable thru normal ulduar. I dont like to judge any tanks thru normal ulduar because it's really a non-issue with how easy the raids are - maybe that changes tho this rendition of wotlk. they're fine for MT and superior for aoe tanking (definitely best add tank for sarth 3-drake for example). no doubt they fall to other tanks/specs beyond normal ulduar and you'd be hindering your raid choosing to play it most fights in the later stages. just hoping these naxx buffs dont make them ineffective early on.
@@r21vo i definitely wouldnt be naive enough to play frost in the later tiers. it falls off pretty hard after ulduar
@@andromidius what do you mean more in line with each other, wotlk is the only expansion that comes to mind where all tank specs are super viable and strong.
Need this xp boost to come out
Fr
I think I’ll switch it up and go tank for my DK. Last time I played Blood though was the start of Wrath.
Just a heads up, blood is really only optimal in ICC, every raid/dungeon before that, frost or a frost-blood hybrid is generally much better and easier
First time i played dk was back in cata so deffo gonna run it in wotlk classic
the problem with DKs in pvp this time (since they are no longer that strong) will be that they have gotten no heal reduce for their enemies in wotlk and therefore in 2v2 they can´t really compete with warriors and alike anymore on top lvl
they definitely can compete in highend 2v2 their dmg output is the highest in the game
@@nharj7674 u need to do 200% dmg of a warrior to be the same lvl of frightening to healers without MS... and when having armor penetrations becomes a thing u dont even do 30% more dmg. warrior + pala will stomp on dk + pala
@@johng2794 you act like you dont have low CD kick and 5s silence
@@wisniamw so what? its nothing other classes dont have too?^^ its not like u can do it as often as an enhancer + purge without cooldown
@@johng2794 yes, afaik there is no other class in wotlk, that have BOTH silence and kick in their base kit.
You also dont need to do 200% of warrior DMG when your target just straight can't heal.
IN Fact i could say, that warriors have to do more DMG than DKs, becouse you still can shield for 100% effectivnes even with MS effect on yourself, while you can't even do that when you are silenced/locked
... I'm gonna have to play this again
Was a dual axe wielding frost tank, kicked ass